Building a Sauna / Can I use Cherry Wood? to SAVE MONEY $$

Design Plans: jonpeters.com/...
I’m planning to build a sauna in the very near future, and I’d like to use Cherry over, cedar, simply because cherry is far less expensive than cedar.
I’ve been impressed with the stability of this old cherry cutting board and thought cleaning it up here in the shop, would serve as good analogy or argument as to why I think cherry might be a good choice for this project.
If you have any thoughts on why I can, or cannot use cherry for this project, please leave a comment and let us know why.
Thanks for watching, Jon
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[@JonPetersArtHome]

I’m planning to build a sauna in the very near future, and I’d like to use Cherry over, cedar, simply because cherry is far less expensive than cedar. I’ve been impressed with the stability of this old cherry cutting board and thought cleaning it up here in the shop, would serve as good analogy or argument as to why I think cherry might be a good choice for this project. If you have any thoughts on why I can, or cannot use cherry for this project, please leave a comment and let us know why. Thanks for watching, Jon

[@AidanSkoyles]

no idea on whether cherry is good; just came here to say I'm psyched to see Jon build a sauna! can't wait!

[@jimserhant7741]

Sounds like an R&D trip to Finland may be in order 😊

[@wolflahti412]

Nordic spruce is the most common wood used for interior paneling in Finnish and Scandinavian saunas, largely because of its availability. In the United States, the best material to use is a western softwood, such as Western Red Cedar, Alaskan Yellow Cedar, Western Redwood, Aspen, Idaho White Pine, Western Hemlock, Sugar Pine, Eastern White Pine, or Eastern White Cedar. Hardwoods are to be avoided because their thermal index is too high, making them far too hot for skin contact in sauna temperatures. Whatever wood is used should be of the highest grade, that is, without knots where skin contact is possible, as knots, being denser, get a lot hotter. Knots are also more likely to seep resin, which is obviously something to avoid. (Reserve boards with knots for paneling below the benches, where skin contact is unlikely.) Though nothing like a steam room, the hot room of a sauna is not strictly dry heat. A small amount of water is periodically splashed on the heated stones to create a flash of "steam", called löyly, which momentarily increases the perceived heat of the hot room; it is then absorbed by the softwood paneling. Speaking of paneling, a common error seen in the construction of hot room walls in the US is absence of an air gap. A wall, from the outside in, should consist of exterior cladding, breathable house wrap, sheathing, insulation, a non-permeable reflective vapor barrier (kraft-paper-backed foil is best; avoid plastic backing), furring strips nailed to the studs to create an air gap of 1/4 to 1/2 inch, and then your interior paneling. Without the air gap, the foil becomes conductive rather than reflective, resulting in a large loss of efficiency. The air gap also aids in the cool-down and drying of the paneling, minimizing the formation of rot and mold. This contributes to a healthier sauna that will last longer.

[@aqumos1]

Spruce used to be the most common. Nowadays around 75-80% of saunas built in Finland are made of thermo treated aspen. I have built almost 600 saunas. For example propably the most well known sauna worldwide today, Löyly in Hernesaari, Helsinki the saunas are made by me. Otherwise correct info in your post. 👍

[@joelwinter4956]

Commenting about resin is appropriate--plenty of pitch pockets in cherry that might be a problem.

[@GWhittleAL]

I looked into this same thought 1 year ago... I came into enough cherry to build an entire sauna hot room. I was excited by the idea at first. 1. Black cherry appears to be fairly fit resistant; with good ventilation and proper "bake and breathe" drying after a sauna session it should be very long lasting. 2. Cherry turns a gorgeous red with oxidation over time which will accelerate with sauna temperstures. 3. Cherry is strong and will make for sturdy benches. 4. Cherry tends to be non-toxic and few people have allergies to cherry wood. (Sensitization over time can be an issue with cedar, pine, or spruce, leading many to turn to Aspen or basswood for a more hypoallergenic build.) But there are other material properties to consider: 1. The big issues are the thermal properties of the wood (the specific heat and the thermal conductivity). You want to compare these properties to the standard sauna woods. Cherry is surprisingly close... The higher the specific heat the higher the radiant heat it will absorb, and the higher the rate of radiant emissivity into your body core. Cherry looks as if it will emit a bit more radiant heat than most sauna woods, but not "oppressively" so. You might end up running your sauna at a lower temperature than you would with a typical sauna wood to compensate for the added feeling of higher heat stress (Just as an IR sauna is usually operated at 140 F or so rather than 185 F and you sweat just as hard or harder.) Thermal conductivity is key. You have to be really careful with pine, because any dense knots have VERY high thermal conductivity and they will burn your arse horribly if you sit on a hot knot!!! Cherry's thermal conductivity is just a bit higher than typical sauna wood. It would definitely be worth trying a board on top of someone else's sauna bench to see the temperature comfort level. That has been my plan... It is likely that cherry will be hot enough that everyone will want to see on a towel, and from a sanitation and maintenance standpoint that is actually a good thing to encourage... LoL. 2. Hygroscopy of the wood is also important, but relatively ignored and misunderstood. Generational wisdom has chosen the "typical" sauna woods wisely in this regard. The steam in a sauna actually buffers the temperatures that reach your body. The stove is putting off far hotter than 212 F. With enough radiant heat from the stove in the room, some saunas can heat up to 230 F. But steam is ALWAYS ~212 F depending upon the local atmospheric pressure. The steam absorbs more latent heat energy by pushing the water molecules further apart, but always remains 212 F... More latent heat energy thereby superheats the steam and makes it drier. Drier makes it "softer" as the Finns describe it. Saturated, wet and misty steam is harsher and feels more "peppery" on your skin. That can be nice in doses too. Back to the wood... A hygroscopic wood absorbs not only heat but moisture also. That moisture releases back out as steam when the wood tries to get hotter than 212 F... That helps keep the hot room temperatures "buffered" to human tolerable levels, even when the sauna stove is emitting lots of radiant heat! So compare the hygroscopy of cherry to the other common sauna woods listed above. I came to the conclusion that cherry is not used for saunas because it is such a prized wood for longer life architectural and furniture wood working... It has higher use value. But it seems to be just barely outside the thermal property window of the other suitable sauna woods. I am considering using the 2" x 10' black cherry beams (old growth with zero pith from the 1930s) for my sauna ceiling. Higher thermal mass and radiant heat storage in the ceiling will enhance the sauna environment, but "might" be too much for the walls... Also, the more thermal mass in the room the higher the pre-heat times! But I am still debating cherry benches. We found Finnish Spruce in the SPF T&G bins VERY cheap at the Big Box stores... Had to pick through for good boards and they all had "Product of Finland" tags. This is what the Finnish typically use and the price couldn't be beat. So those will be used for my walls. I may add an extra layer of 2" boards behind the T&G on the walls next to the benches. It will increase heat up times, but will provide more gentle radiant heat during sauna sessions. Note: Your wood cladding design needs to consider your stove selection. If your stove has a high radiant output during pre-heating (a more heritage style, heavy steel wood burning stove as an example), you will be able to heat up the wood surround and benches with radiant heat in a reasonable pre-heat time. If you have a more modern sheet metal stove or aesthetically pleasing rock surround stove, you will get very little radiant heat output into the room. These stoves are designed for fast air heat up with convective heat only. As such, they take FOREVER to build any heat into the wood surround. Saunas built with such convective only heat stoves are better served by thinner wood wall cladding, preferably with rock wool insulation behind. Paperbacked foil moisture barrier should be sealed well with furring strips followed by the thin T&G paneling. I'd enjoy following your build and learning from your choice if you do go with the cherry!

[@andrewbrown8148]

No idea about whether or not Cherry is a good choice for that application, but it was very good to hear that Cherry has rot-resistant properties and suitable for outdoor projects. I had no idea. Thanks much~!!

[@dpie4859]

I am from Sweden, neighborhood to Finland where sauna comes from. Here we use the following: Alongside aspen and alder, ash is likely the most common wood type for a sauna. It is a darker wood that is popular in sauna cabins as it imparts an exclusive impression. Spruce and pine may not be as exclusive since they are widespread, but they also work well in saunas.

[@kz.irudimen]

If it's dark, it's not regular ash, it's thermally modified ash. Very different than normal ash.

[@VincentSchmidts]

do you maybe mean thermally treated aspen wood instead of ash? Ash is really dense and bright and has high thermal conductivity, can not really imagine how that would be a popular choice?

[@ckent1975fm]

Cedar Mahogany and Basswood are the most common. Some woods subjected to higher temperatures can offgas slightly and become a respiratory and skin irritant. Cedar is most commonly the worst offender. Considering the premise is to open your pores and detox, wood species is critical. Excited to see what you come up with!

[@Andrewlstewart]

Hi Jon, Canadian here. I've built 2 saunas, one where the full structure is cedar while the other is standard spf framing then lined with 1x6 western red cedar. Both are 7kW heaters in a 7' x 7' x 6'8" tall room. Outdoors in Ottawa and used throughout the -20C to -35C winters. I did all the electrical, framing, building. I can share photos. If you have any questions or if I can bring a cherry board into my sauna and let you know if it's comfortable to sit on, let me know. PS 90C sauna is the minimum I would recommend, 100-105C is much more enjoyable.

[@Andrewlstewart]

Also, another way to do it more economically is to only use select cedar where you sit and where your back touches then uses small knoted wood or different species along the lower parts of the sauna and around the walls without seats. But also buy once cry once

[@JeffYantha]

Hello Andrew, I’m also in the Ottawa area and I’d be interested to know more about your construction methodologies and how it turned out. I’ve been interested in building a sauna for a while but I wasn’t sure how well it would work with our cold winters.

[@Andrewlstewart]

​@@JeffYanthaFirst one was a kit from Chinook Spa's in downtown which uses full cedar 2x4's without any additional insulation. Second one was self sourced, I just built a shed with SPF, used standard vinyl siding on the exterior, batting insulation, and lining that I got from saunafin. Then lined the inside with 1x6 select cedar from the woodsource. Like Jon was saying, the cedar is expensive, but it should last. Both work without any issues in -30C weather using a 7kW heater. Takes about 45 minutes to an hour to get up to 100C.

[@JeffYantha]

@@Andrewlstewart fantastic, thanks for the info!

[@annaredd2422]

I'm so excited, I have been wanting to build a sauna too so I will be watching. Thank you for all your videos. I have learned a lot through the years

[@JonPetersArtHome]

That’s awesome! Thanks!

[@deepblued]

One thing to keep in mind besides the thermal conductivity of the material are the measurements. Typically you dont want the second highest bench (where you rest your feet when sitting) to be 2"-4" higher than the stove (so your feet don't get cold), and you don't want the ceiling to be too high either. If the ceiling is too high, the heat won't stay where you're enjoying your sauna. So, according to some old Finnish sauna plans you have 16" to 18" space between the two uppermost benches, and 41"-47" between the uppermost bench and the ceiling. Good luck with your build! I bet there are plenty of us Finns eagerly waiting for the next videos!

[@JonPetersArtHome]

Some great info, Thanks!

[@williamellis8993]

I don't know if cherry is rot resistant but the logs aren't. They can develop red rot in the center. That probably won't affect the good lumber. Bill

[@Wordsnwood]

$2 is a pretty good price! Not much is cheaper than that!

[@senseimarco1234]

I was actually thinking same thing…. I’m fortunate that I have lots of cherry wood but cannot find good info out there if you can use for sauna. Will be following this one 😊

[@JonPetersArtHome]

I ended up going with Poplar, just ordered the wood yesterday. I’ll shoot a follow up video soon. One reason for not using cherry is that it’s more dense, and might conduct heat to create an uncomfortable bench.

[@olafg9911]

One aspect you may want to research could be thermal conductivity of areas that possibly get in contact with skin.

[@lancekoller5284]

Just sit on a towel. Don't overthink this.

[@sergiyrudenko905]

I'm very happy that you building a Sauna at the same time I'm starting to build mine(12' by 8'). Please make a detailed video of your work, I'm sure I can learn a lot from your work as always. ✌🙂

[@JonPetersArtHome]

Nice! That’s going to be much bigger than mine… I’m hoping to get started on mine next week… planning to use poplar now.

[@johnritchie3889]

I love working with cherry. Some of the comments discuss offgassing of some woods. Cherry seems to me to have a very low odor when working it. That leads me to think it would have a low odor in a sauna. It’s a very benign wood that’s great for food contact, like cutting boards and kitchen utensils, and would be fine for a sweaty butt on a bench in a sauna.

[@ЮрийГригорович-ч7р]

hi, I used black alder and aspen for the interior decoration of the sauna - high heat capacity and low price

[@williamhanna5224]

Excellent !

[@mrupholsteryman]

The planer sells itself! Now if only I had permission from the wife committee 😅🤣😂 Looking forward to the build!😊

[@JonPetersArtHome]

That’s always the hardest part 😂

[@craigpereira6381]

will you show the build on the channel?

[@moneymakingmikeg.9555]

I'm confident you'll figure it out & let's phuckin goooooo wit da building!!! Dirty Jersey out!!

[@glennryzebol4472]

My wife is Finnish. Apparently a sauna that isn't moist, humid and steamy isn't a real sauna. The point of going to sauna is to sweat. The throwing of water on to those rocks to make the steam is the whole point. A dry sauna won't help you to sweat. Incidentally my wife and her brother also manufacture wood burning and electric sauna heaters. When we built our sauna, we had to make the same choice. Cedar or something cheaper. We chose the cedar. It's one of those things that needs to be just so. If you will be going into the sauna and wishing you'd bit the bullet and gone with cedar, then you should use cedar if you can afford it. 10 years down the road, you won't be worried about how much it cost. Go with cedar. That smell!!!!

[@DustySplinters]

I am considering using basswood in a sauna. Light weight and possibly a good insulator. Indie temp for the air inside should not go that high. Your body can only withstand above 100-110 for short periods. Especially us nor Easters

[@jeffcarsello1725]

My understanding is that you cannot use hardwoods for saunas. The reason why is the thermal retention of the wood, with softer woods having less ability to retain heat compared to hardwoods such as cherry. You don't wanna be going into your Sauna that's 200+ degrees and be sitting on an oak bench. It'd be like sitting on top of a stove top. good luck

[@davecurda2350]

In western Canada we pay over $7.00 a board foot.

[@batmansdad3195]

How far west? 😂 If your like me in manitoba the most common to find is yellow cedar

[@sapelesteve]

I would do some more research Jon as I don't think using cherry is going to be the wood to use for that sauna. 🤔🤔

[@JonPetersArtHome]

Probably going to go with Poplar… Got a lot of great feedback in the comments👍

[@canartdamien4689]

Conductivity is the real issue ... I have build a Sauna ... and I have used "tremble" this is excellent for conductivity. Heavy wood is not confy and really problematic. KR

[@suterfamily5578]

Cherry bark is known to have cyanide, I might worry a bit about using Cherry.

[@JonPetersArtHome]

Good to know! Thanks

[@MCsCreations]

To be honest, Jon, all I know about saunas is that 5min in one and I'm dead. 😬 Anyway, stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊

[@greenestreetjoinery1457]

All things considered that cutting board is in great shape!

[@JonPetersArtHome]

Cleaned up nice… I bought it in the house and Laurel doesn’t want to use it now 😂

[@greenestreetjoinery1457]

@@JonPetersArtHome 😂😂😂

[@batmansdad3195]

A quick google search shows that a dishwasher gets up to 140. You may have to make a small box and run a test

[@wxwisetrue3712]

I dont know of ANY hardwood that is $2/bf. May need to make a road trip...😊

[@JonPetersArtHome]

For sure! This is from Lewis lumber in pa … actually $1,85 great price!

[@sinsofvorador]

Heck, I didn't know Cherry was good for outdoor stuff

[@johnsrabe]

Every guy when he gets older wants/needs a sauna. Sounds good already.

[@JonPetersArtHome]

I can’t wait! Been doing the ice baths so this is the logical next step. 😂

[@mattschonhoff2614]

Off topic - does that SoCal board wax give a nice waxy sheen? I’ve only used Howard’s blend, and I find it not nearly as waxy as I want it. Mostly just oily. Maybe there’s too much oil vs wax in that particular blend. Any idea? Love the channel, Jon.

[@JonPetersArtHome]

Thanks! I’m not sure of the formula, but I do like the finish. It’s best if you reapply it from time to time. .. I think it’s worth picking up a can and trying it out.

[@saadr2208]

Some people use pine , I don't see any reason why cherry wood couldn't be used. At least you won't have the sap issue. Cant wait to see the video. Thanks.

[@jacklorchdesigns]

Are you considering making plans for sale when complete? I am looking to build a sauna as well, and would not hesitate to buy plans from you

[@JonPetersArtHome]

I’m not sure, if I don’t make plans, I’ll try to explain it as best as I can on the video.

[@lancekoller5284]

No snipe??

[@joelwinter4956]

That was my first question when I saw that short board come out of his planer! That's the really surprising part of this video! 🙂

[@JonPetersArtHome]

Actually, was a little… I Sent it through the drum sander next

[@pekkahilden6802]

SAUNA is NOT dry heat. In sauna water is thrown on the stones in order to get that stem (löyly in Finnish). If it is dry then it is just a hot room but not sauna.

[@JonPetersArtHome]

I think you’re wrong, that water evaporates almost immediately. Seems like common sense that the wood in a sauna would be far drier than any wood in a home or shop.

[@pekkahilden6802]

@@JonPetersArtHome I guess you understood me incorrectly. Here in Finland where sauna is part of all families’ life water is always thrown on the stones of the stove (kiuas in Finnish and I guess there is no word for that in most of the other languages). I don’t know what kiuas you can get in the US but here they are heated either with electricity or wood. Kiuas is packed with roughly 30 kg (don’t know what that is in lbs … maybe 60 pounds) of rocks and they are then heating up. Then when you take a sauna you throw 3-4 cups of water on the stones to get the löyly (another Finnish sauna related word). If you have heated the sauna well you are not stung with overheated steam but with a pleasant warm, moist, steam. You do that as long as you want, go out, grab a beer and enjoy the view. Believe me. Finnish sauna with löyly is FAR more comfortable than the dry hot rooms you’ll see in most of the US hotels where most of the time it is banned to throw water on the kiuas. Most Finns neglect those bans and throw anyway 😀 If you take the effort to build a sauna then make it a comfortable one. Here is a link that gives some basic information finland.fi/life-society/bare-facts-of-the-sauna/

[@msessa7054]

Damn $2/bf? Is that a bulk price/trade price or just what it is local to you?

[@JonPetersArtHome]

It’s from Louis Lumber in Pennsylvania

[@ВладимирКондров-ю8у]

Привет. В России сауны отделывают Липой или Осиной на 20 - 25 лет.

[@dagored100]

Here we use abachi, or aspen wood for saunas..

[@hassleoffa]

YES, SAUNA BUILD!