Building The 5-Axis CNC Machine in a Small Room: A DIY Journey. (part2)

[@joankiener750]

this is awesome. still crazy to me how a single human can come up with and develop all of this, then build it, and then operate it??

[@sumpsaver8129]

I commonly machine between 8K and 10K as a norm. Especially with steel. With a machine this small and light, you may find that spindle speed directly impacts the noise. Also, spindle torque will become very important. A slower, higher torque spindle may help with meeting some of your wants.

[@yngndrw.]

Seems as the machine will be on draw runners within the sound proof box, I think you should move the draw runners at the top instead and hang the machine. This will mean that the underside will be completely clear and you'll have much more space underneath for chips on your chip tray. You may even be able to switch to full flood coolant with an open bottom and a full-sized chip tray.

[@a-cnc-f]

Thanks for the advice. That's an interesting idea. Actually, I am still thinking about that. I have a several ideas. I think I need to decide before I start making the column.

[@KallePihlajasaari]

Innovative out of the box thinking for in the box machining. :-) Simpler might be to have the rails on the sides near the bottom with rails the machine sides can rest on. A tray to catch chips and excess coolant would then be easy as you suggest.

[@imqqmi]

Looks great! One more question though, did you think about the heat the spindle, cutting and steppers/servos will produce and how it would impact longer running gcode programs? My 1.5kw air cooled spindle gets pretty toasty after 45min job, even when cutting light loads, ie foam. Being inside an soundproofed box also means it's thermally insulated as well.

[@floydheidenreich8736]

Yep, air cooling definitely maybe a problem here.

[@a-cnc-f]

That is one of my concerns as well. I may need some kind of cooling equipment.

[@aidancunningham2367]

This project is looking awesome. I have a suggestion for you though to improve both the look and the functionality of the fourth axis table. From what I can see, you are using belts to transmit the torque from the motors to both the fourth and fifth axis of your machine. I propose you add a 3d printed panel to cover the front of the entire 4th axis table, and two more panels that will go on the left and right side of the 4th axis table where the motors are housed under the pivot point. From a functional standpoint, this will protect your belts over time from wear due to chips. You mentioned you want to machine steel, and using a small endmill with small depths of cut will produce nasty, millimeter-sized chips that will find their way into every crevice and could even become embedded in the belt as it rolls over the pulley due to their small size and sharpness. Additionally, you mentioned how this frame was optimized for optimal chip clearance, and these panels would prevent these steel chips from getting into places that are difficult to remove and keep clean. Because steel is a ferromagnetic material and its chips tend to have some small magnetic field after being machined, they may potentially be attracted to the small magnetic field the motor produces as it is being operated, causing chips to gather on the stepper motor. Now in regard to appearance, the most important factor ;), these panels would make the whole table look seamless, just like the fighter jets that you mentioned, and if you printed the parts out of a black carbon fiber filament, it would look even more sleek and have a really interesting texture that would match the rest of the machine. Lastly, are you planning on adding a cover to the xy-stage of your machine? This would prevent chips from getting into the moving components at the top of the machine and would also improve the appearance as well. Anyways, apologies for the long comment. I can't wait to see where this project goes!

[@a-cnc-f]

Thanks for the advice. I do have plans to install covers. In particular, I want to install the covers as well as possible, especially for the A and C axes. As for the XY, we have no plans at this time. I will install it when I start using it and feel the need to do so.

[@snapo1750]

wow, congratulation, did never expect my question got considered (regarding toolchange) , yes this change should give you the proper space (in the limited area) to change tools.... this machine looks absolutely amazing...

[@floydheidenreich8736]

Did you already see the new Rownd CNC Lathe? Maybe it can inspire you to some interesting features for your machine as well!

[@floydheidenreich8736]

Possibly LCD touch control could be one of them 😉

[@a-cnc-f]

It's a cool design. Interesting. I would like to mill my lathe as well.

[@floydheidenreich8736]

There are a lot of lathes from the clock industry whiсh are very lightweight by themself but for the required stability and precision they used heavy bases. So the same concept may also utilize here, a heavy bottom plate for stability that can be detached and left in the soundproof box. Also, I think Kevlar is better for internal use... because its fibers are used heavily in vibration-dampening applications and to offers better impact resistance than CF or FG. It is just tougher (carbon fiber toughness is ~2 and Kevlar is ~6 MPa*m^1/2). But carbon may be used for outer layers for better esthetics!

[@a-cnc-f]

Thanks for the advice. Kevlar seems to be more suitable. However, I have already ordered carbon fiber for testing, so I will test with carbon.

[@AlexMoonXXI]

I doubt the practicality of the "carbon finish" of the machines. Carbon products in the aviation and automotive industries are intensively colored. Because carbon and epoxy are not resistant to aggressive environments, heat and UV. Another thing is the "like carbon" that machos order for their cool cars :)

[@floydheidenreich8736]

AlexMoonXXI, totally agree with you, but this is not an industrial machine but for home use and it definitely should look like a cool car! As for the heat and UV, epoxy-granite also can't withstand them. Maybe some finish coatings may help with that problem a bit.

[@stezz90]

Milling machine are designed for stiffness, not toughness. Carbon is vastly superior to kevlar for this application, starting from twice the modulus and up. Just don't expect much with milled fibers in epoxy granite, as like other fiber-based composites they work best when you can make use of their anisotropy. In this application you are not. Unfortunately composites are not drop in replacementes for metals, they have their strenght and weakness and you have to design around them. As for carbon in diy CNCs, mine has the Z axis plate out of 10mm carbon fiber. And I don't think I would do that again.

[@AlexMoonXXI]

@@stezz90 The author intends to use carbon fiber rather than milled fibers. But I'm not talking about that. If you ensure maximum stiffness of the static parts of the machine, you simply transfer the vibro-load to the kinematic parts. I'm in favor of weight. Pay attention to industrial machines: their frame weighs 1/2 tons, the spindle module - 100 kg, the vise table - 100 kg. This means that vibrations from the cutter are damped by each massive part, and are not transmitted to bearings and shafts. At the same time, the author’s spindle is almost like an industrial one, and everything else is 100 times (!) lighter.

[@eldricliew6223]

Usually the strength of a machine frame is many orders of magnitude stronger than required: what you actually need is stiffness. Strength is required when the forces are high enough to break the frame. For small forces, stiffness governs how much the frame bends. Look for young's modulus rather than tensile/compressive strength. Epoxy granite (25-35gpa) has lower stiffness than cast iron , thus the epoxy granite frames tend to be very fat because of that. I think in your case it should be good enough anyway (your new frame is much thicker than the old sheet metals). Carbon fiber isn't used for epoxy granite because it ends up decreasing damping and it's usually just cheaper to use more epoxy granite since space in industrial workshops is cheap. Anyway here's a paper which uses carbon fiber in their epoxy granite. Note that the sample damping is "only" 6x better than cast iron or aluminium. Sadly this paper doesn't have a comparison of various blends, but it should serve as a baseline. Also they don't include the young's modulus, it can be approximated as better than epoxy granite (CF makes things stiffer, but reduces the damping). www.researchgate.net/publication/329481100_Synthetic_granite_composite_for_precision_equipment_structures To maximally increase stiffness, you can wrap the outer layer with CF. Something like here: technocarbon.de/presse/SD_CM_02_08_technocarbon.pdf

[@a-cnc-f]

Sorry. My comment was blocked and I didn't notice your comment until later. Thanks for the advice. To be honest, I don't know much about it, but I'll try anyway. Thanks for your interest.

[@xyzxyz6095]

Better then Netflix series. Good editing skill and project presentation. Thank you for your generosity for sharing your knowledge with the rest of the CNC world. Be Blessed. Salutations from France.

[@minigunlabs]

are you planning to make a cnc lathe with tailstock and a live tool?

[@a-cnc-f]

I want to make it.

[@perw12345]

In addition to all the other factors, a 3mm end mill will impart minimal forces on the bearings and ways, leading to long life and good accuracy

[@AlexMoonXXI]

Hi! Your decision to use carbon fiber surprised me. I believe that reducing the weight of the machine will not improve its performance, but worsen it. But if you really want to use a composite material - try epoxy-kevlar.

[@a-cnc-f]

Thanks for the advice. Although I think heavier machines are more stable, this machine is designed to be lifted and moved, so lightness is important to me. Kevlar is also used for similar applications, but I honestly don't know which is more suitable. However, as far as looks go, I think carbon is better.

[@AlexMoonXXI]

​@@a-cnc-f The mass of machine parts dampens vibrations. No wonder the beds of industrial machines are made of cast iron! Otherwise, kinematic mechanisms (rails, shafts, bearings) will be forced to endure vibration. I have a small CNC1310 machine. To reduce vibrations, I installed a lead plate weighing 3.5 kg under the table. This greatly improved the quality of processing.

[@angrydragonslayer]

man, i don't have time for another project but i want to copy this......

[@rolanddube2169]

Carbon fiber is a very cool idea. I can't wait to see how it performs with your design. Thanks for a great video.

[@leocampos5055]

I look forward to the next video! The new structural reinforcement is good and have you seen the frequency inverter?

[@a-cnc-f]

2.2KW Frequency Converter Inverter 220V VFD

[@flo341000]

Great video and amazing design ! An improvement would be to be able to bolt the machine on a heavy metal plate in order to reduce vibration, also don't forget about cable loom and management !

[@calico88]

I have not seen the C and A axis detail design yet, no harmonic gear ? How you deal with backlash and rigidity ? I think it’s the most important at the end.

[@a-cnc-f]

The basic structure of the AB axis is going to be the same as the machine I built last time. The current design is just a confirmation that the minimum number of parts can be assembled. There is still some time before I start to build the AB axis, so I will think more carefully about it. I will release it to the public eventually.

[@wvangelder1987]

Love this design! Love the work you do with the tools you have available. About the spindle, it should work fine up to 6mm endmills(even 8mm with lower feed) if the frame is solid enough. About the frame, keep in mind that you do need the weight for dampening vibrations. Making it lighter might also introduce other vibrations. Maybe paint the milling machine after building it, makes brushing or washing chips off a lot less work. Also, it feels a lot more like finishing a project this way. P.S. My lathe is about 65 kg by itself, i've added about 50/55 kg of epoxy granite to get better cuts, it resulted in me finally getting mirror finishes on my lathe for the first time ever.

[@a-cnc-f]

Thanks for the advice. I agree with you. I need to make test cut.

[@wvangelder1987]

Little extra backstory. I am also building a small cnc milling machine, 3(4) axes with a working area of about x250mm y150mm z200mm. Open loop steppers with glass scale encoders on the carriages for position feedback. The spindle will be driven by two motors, one 750watt motor for milling, one 150watt servo for rigid tapping thread. Steel and epoxy granite for the base and column, aluminium parts for the carriages and bearing blocks. SBR16 set for the linear motion. For the work planned on the machine (watch casings and small rc parts.), i use 6mm diameter end mills at max. and it should be able to rigid tap up to m6.

[@tcwracing]

Im interested to see how this spindle performs with steel. I am also building A cnc machine and was looking at the same spindle. But i thought that the bearings would probably only last a few hours. So im going to use a pulley with a larger slower motor. But i understand that you have the space issue. Cool project and very intrested to see the proces!

[@a-cnc-f]

If that motor doesn't work, I need to take the next step.

[@sommersetcoker5455]

Haha! My Name!! Keep up the good work! Very excited to see this project progress :)

[@a-cnc-f]

Because this is the channel you support.

[@Sketch1994]

I had come up with the idea of a slant bed mini mill quite a while ago but never followed through. This isn't what I had in mind, but I am curious to see it's performance

[@Vengefultwinky]

You're a legends, I've had the thought for a couple years I want to build a tabletop 5x CNC. I keep procrastinating when I even have access to industrial CNC machines! I can't wait to see this project completed. I've worked in manufacturing, assembly, and design, what's your professional background? Your skillset is awesome!

[@a-cnc-f]

I work for a machine tool company now, I was also a cnc lathe operator.

[@rav3n595]

Has anyone tried using out of phase acoustic waves to greatly reduce the sound of mills? How about using transducers mounted directly to the frame to reduce overall machine vibration?

[@a-cnc-f]

I have thought about something like that myself. I wish I could find something cheap and effective.

[@rav3n595]

@@a-cnc-f There are many 'noise cancelation' circuits available online, both in schematic form and populated PCB's. Some are very cheap and would just be a matter of tinkering to explore their use for machines. It would be interesting to see the outcome. Speakers for ambient sound and frame mounted transducers for machine vibration. Theoretically... it should work.

[@nickp4793]

Great update! I like the idea of carbon fiber to reduce weight while maintaining strength.

[@lowellmudenda836]

You never cease to amaze me, great work

[@Woreec]

instead of using carbon fibers you could also use glass fibers since they have a very similair tensile strengh and general properties in epoxy (carbon fiber is a bit better) but are substantially cheaper and taken from injection molding and fdm printing the longer the strands of fiber the better the tensile strengh also, im a bit worried about the heat from the spindle in a sound proof box since im guessing there wont be ventilation?

[@a-cnc-f]

Thanks for the advice, I'll test with carbon fiber and if it doesn't work I'll try different things.

[@Woreec]

good luck!

[@AppliedMathematician]

If you go for max coolant processing maybe that should be included in the enclosure as feature? It just seems to be the natural place to put this system part.

[@a-cnc-f]

I think it is a good idea. However, I am a little concerned that the coolant hose needs to be disconnected each time the machine is removed from the soundproofing box.

[@AppliedMathematician]

@@a-cnc-f : Well, maybe a garden hose connector system is sufficient? Or just a funnel with a sieve? Sadly I am not able to try to build stuff myself.

[@KallePihlajasaari]

I would make the base with the densest aggregate possible for stability even at the expense of weight as that is where it will do the most good.. Even steel shot and crimpped steel wire reinforcing as used in technical concrete would be valid. Because of the compact nature of your design you do not need very much aggregate so price should not be a big burden and you can select for other characteristics. Because your axis are at 45 degrees the load on the Y axis motors includes the mass of the other axis. Here using a lighter composite with chopped carbon fibre roving is attractive as it will reduce the static load on the Y axis.

[@a-cnc-f]

If you don't plan to move the machine from its installation location, then heavy weight is not a problem, but if not, then light weight is important. See the video in Part 7 for weight measures for Y-axis units.

[@multiversegamergod]

This is awesome ! I have a 4 axis working on 5 axis. I have very thick sheets of C.F. Give me your email.

[@a-cnc-f]

Thanks for your interest. I also purchased carbon fiber. I am trying to figure out how to test it first.

[@AlexMoonXXI]

A couple more tips: 1. It is not necessary to add a granite fraction to polymer concrete. The composition of sand and epoxy is more durable than granite. However, it is much easier to form. 2. For machining steel, you will need anti-backlash nuts, not simple ball screws. These nuts are larger. This needs to be included in the model.

[@a-cnc-f]

Thanks for the advice. I agree with you regarding ballscrews. To machine steel, we need to have a preload on all moving parts.

[@VitaliySunny]

You're a rocket!

[@rinta7322]

今や廃れた 昔の日本人の設計思想と思ったら、日本人のようですね 頑張ってください。日本より

[@a-cnc-f]

ありがとうございます。 時間はかかっても諦めずに頑張ります。

[@russneff6316]

What control and software is going to be used?

[@a-cnc-f]

Linuxcnc

[@1112-i5h]

Просто продолжай делать это, нам все нравится. С Уважением.

[@marvinschneider2707]

What Voiceover software do you use ?

[@a-cnc-f]

Speechelo

[@JohnDoe-u3b]

Are there plans available

[@a-cnc-f]

What do you mean?

[@dikarianto75]

wow, you're genius

[@ВячеславБибиков-п3ю]

Странно, конечно, использовать достаточно дорогое углеволокно на доступном станке, но если принято такое решение, то почему бы не подумать над созданием предварительно напряженного состояния в станине для увеличения прочности, например, предварительно растянув арматуру из углепластика, или дополнительно создав углеволоконные элементы формой близким, например, к рессорам автомобиля или иным похожим упругим элементам и также их растянуть. Таким образом и в эпоксидном составе будут напряжения сжатия, и волокна углеволокна будут стремится работать на растяжение.

[@VitaliySunny]

Это более трудозатратный и скорее ненужный техпроцесс, т.к. станок мелкий.

[@SergeiPetrov]

Станку нужна жесткость а не прочность. Единственные сомнения это демпфирование резонансов. Но поскольку там гравий внутри залитый эпоксидкой то как демпфер оно будет работать по любому.

[@AlexMoonXXI]

Мне идея с углеволокном кажется притянутой за уши. Никто из создателей полимербетонных станков не жаловался на их прочность на растяжение. Есть видос с моделированием напряжений и процессом подбора подходящих фракций (How to Build Epoxy Granite Machine Base). Есть полимербетонные станки промышленного производства без всякого волокна внутри. А использование карбона "для красоты" вообще считаю нелепой идеей, т.к. он плохо уживается с агрессивной средой (СОЖ, нагрев, царапающие опилки и т.п.).

[@SergeiPetrov]

@@AlexMoonXXI производители жалуются только на то что почему то из кизяка станины не покупают еще потребители (все остальное уже удается продавать) Ламинированный (ну и армированный готовыми трубками) углеволокном полимерогранит однозначно превосходит сталь и по жесткости и по резонансу. И это не "кажется", а просто (ну ладно не простой ввиду тонкого слоя ламината) рассчет методом конечных эдементов. Что касается "агрессивной среды действующей на эпоксидку"... ну любопытно будет посмотреть (в крайнем случае никто не мешает покрыть стойким полимером для защиты)

[@a-cnc-f]

Thanks for the advice. That's an interesting opinion. However, I am not sure if it would work, but it would be technically more difficult to produce. Thanks for your interest in this project.

[@Rabb865]

Amazing work bro