Bullring Birmingham Then and Now

[@InflatablePlane]

Maybe I'm crazy, but I kinda dig the 1964 Bull Ring Centre, looked like an ultra modern airport. And loved that model airplane exhibition the had there, looked like a HS Nimrod Mk.1 on that turntable!

[@bullringbirminghamnostalgi2527]

I don't know about that one dude. Maybe a soviet airport bunker, lol. I love the old Bullring and I was torn up when they ripped it down. But I think like a lot of people we knew it was long overdue. It makes me smile when I see people talk fondly about it now but some of those people heavily criticised it as an eye sore and an blight on Birmingham City Centre all those years ago. I guess time can change hearts and minds.

[@gazzab3224]

I remember the old Bullring so well and I miss Woolworths .

[@nickforbes-warren6602]

I miss Beatties, used to get my model trains there!

[@bullringbirminghamnostalgi2527]

Wow. That's going back some.

[@bullringbirminghamnostalgi2527]

Just a quick one guys. I really appreciate the comments and I respect everyone's opinion both negative and positive. This channel will always strive to give everyone a platform to have their opinion. However, It’s unfortunate that I have recently had to delete a couple of comments for vulgarity. Just to be clear, Every comment is screened before hand so whatever is posted (inappropriate or otherwise) I WILL read it and it WILL be deleted if I find it offensive. You will simply not be responded to and if you persist you will be blocked. This channel is for people to enjoy the history of one of Birmingham's most iconic buildings and share their experiences. It’s not for people to post comments using vulgar language. It will not be tolerated on this channel. Many thanks for your co operation and I hope you enjoy the channel.

[@390h8er]

I really miss the old place. It was rundown and neglected but it had character. You have to admit it looked great when new along with the fantastic road system. I think they could have easily renovated it instead of complete demolition. The new place has wrecked the road layout and pushed out the working classes in favour of footballers wives. Gentrification eh?

[@bullringbirminghamnostalgi2527]

That’s not what the planners or the council were going for. They wanted to do away with everything. The inner ring roads, The Bullring itself, the underpasses. Everything, gone. No way would they have kept a crumbling building which would have needed its inner structure to be completely ripped out and shelled like walls, pipe work, wiring, lifts to be completely upgraded which it would have needed. It would have to be changed on the outside as well. The main structure and foundations itself would have been in tact like New Street Station but it would have probably cost just as much if not more to renovate and update. Much like New Street the costs would have ran way over budget. 1960's Bullring had no long term future from the moment it was built. As much as we both love the memories of that time we have to be realistic. It was sadly a victim of its own era.

[@crc778Hypnodoc]

At 4:05 here you see the opening of the plaque i the indoor hall of the Bull ring, About one minute before that an 11 yr old me was playing truant in that hall, I saw crowds of people but being a bit on the short side then I couldn't see what they were looking at, So I pushed through a sea of legs. As I did I tripped forward onto a red carpet, right in front of Prince Phillip. He stooped down, picked me up, handed me to a policeman, I wriggled out of his grasp and ran like hell. And since then when I tell people that Prince Phillip held me in his arms, you know they never seem to believe me! But it did really happen!

[@crc778Hypnodoc]

Actually I'd all but forgotten myself and not told anyone for a few decades! Time to revive the story methinks ;)

[@bullringbirminghamnostalgi2527]

Thank you very much for your support, your comments and your viewership guys. Please don't forget to spread the link And follow me on FaceBook at Bullring Birmingham then and Now.

[@jackalfordproductions]

does anyone know what the song at 7:59 is? I tried to find it through shazam and it didn't seem to recognize it. Though it could be music made for the film.

[@bullringbirminghamnostalgi2527]

It must have been production music as the cut was from a promotional video for the Bullrings opening back in 2003 bud.

[@jackalfordproductions]

@@bullringbirminghamnostalgi2527 Yeah, that's what I was thinking. I admit this video brings back a lot of memories to when I first went to the bullring after it's refurbishment. I still remember those glass panes that were sinks and the lego store.

[@sloeginandsleep1170]

I admit I miss the old Bullring, and I do think back and wish it was still here, but the reality of the situation was far more complicated than that. My dad was a structural engineer working for BCC, now happily retired. Sitting down and talking with him about some of the city and it's architectural history is really something. I recently asked him for his views on the life and demolition of the old Bullring as part of my thesis on structural design and engineering (I followed in his footsteps). I'm quoting word for word here, as I thought it might interest some of you..... "The old Bullring was doomed from the day they poured the first inch of concrete. Built in a era where the planners only showed interest in aping the American shopping mall trend, it was built with no consideration for further area extension nor life cycle renovation. Even at the time, other public sector developments elsewhere were designed with a mind to continue to invest and modernise, whereas the Bullring development was designated to allow the city to reap the rewards for 75 years with no additional investment, which was the intended lifecycle of the centre". "The Bullring was made of mostly unstressed structural concrete assemblies, which were all supposed to be prestressed prefab sections. They decided to use beams to reinforce instead during the build process. Some of which were liquid concrete poured on site around beams into wooden moulds due to a delay in delivery. Once placed, they were integral and couldn't be removed without knocking half of the centre out around them. So removing sections for extensions or replacement was impossible. Appropriate drainage for concrete, which was understood even then, was not used, instead using lead lagging, pebble dash and other coverings to hold out water. Holding out the elements is a fools game, you cannot beat nature, so you should always build in mitigations for this; which they didn't do. The centre was built with a seriously horrific level of cost-cutting too, with sections taken out to save cost, assembly processes ignored to speed up production and with a lack of attention to detail. There was a story (with reports to back it up) that one prefab section was 3 inches too wide, instead of waiting for a new part to be made, they got a crew with sledgehammers and pneumatic tools to smash the edge of it off, and just fill the space with mortar. This was the part that started to stress crack and seperate a month before the Duke of Edinburgh was coming to open the centre, so took a huge amount of money and extra leg work to fix before then". "Back in 1989, during the time where the desire to renovate or dispose of the centre was at an all time high, we completed a full assessment of the site. Every night for 6 weeks, we were there. We found rebar so rotten that it wasn't attached to anything anymore, buckled and cracked foundation slabs, bent supporting beams, unsecured asbestos panelling, leaking roofs, whole sections of the undergrade ducting full of water, roof tar being used to fill cracks in walls to keep out the wind and so many other issues that we all collectively held our breath when submitting our reports. The bill would have cost about 60% of the new centre cost. The management just shrugged". "The biggest problem, apart from poor building techniques and ineffectual management, was a total disregard for ongoing maintenance. A good example would be the roof of the old concourse over the inner ring road, approximately where the walkway down to Saint Martins is now, had to be re-leaded and refelted every 5 years, it hadn't been done for 15 years. Concrete repairs to the facade which needed to be stripped back and rebuilt due to water ingress, were just patched with mortar. Repainting which was supposed to be every 3 years, wasn't done for 20 years and then it was only on sections where the surface was breaking down. Preventative maintenance is essential, yet it was always ignored". "In the end, it's death was assured from the day they started building it. Perhaps with correct maintenance, effective oversight and regular cosmetic care, it could have survived another 20 years. However, as has always been the case in Birmingham, short term cost came before long term gain. Adding another floor above, rerouting the roads, removing the subways and adding another parking structure could have breathed new life into it, but the council had no interest in doing so, instead just planning to knock it down and start over. There was even talk of adding a ice rink into the old ballroom, which would have cost £200,000 at the time, with an expected revenue of £1 million a year....how brilliant of a crowd draw would that have been? But yet again, short term mentality. The new centre is far better than the old one in every possible metric, apart from soul. A shame, yes. Inevitable? Absolutely".

[@bullringbirminghamnostalgi2527]

I just spent 15 minutes reading your Dad's story and being absolutely fascinated at the detail he just gave regarding the engineering, structure and eventual slow crumbling death of the Bull Ring due to poor planning, cost cutting and a lack of vision. Everything he stated I absolutely agree with. I am no engineer and do not have the kind of qualifications your Father has but his insight makes a lot of sense and takes me back to when I was working at Bull Ring from 94 - 98. I love the place but it was falling apart. You could tell that other then a paint job and a patch up they was keeping it on life support. Much like my rendering that needs doing after 80 years it looked tired and was falling away with need of some serious investment to avoid structural damage. The building was basically neglected by the council and simply patched up to the point of structural tooth decay. Anyway. At least my rendering is finally receiving the much needed investment for some tlc.. lol.

[@sloeginandsleep1170]

@@bullringbirminghamnostalgi2527 So true, in the end everything comes to the end of its lifespan, I think BCC and John Laing accelerated that deterioration through some really bad decision making before, during and after build. Nothing lasts forever but what they did while it was here was pretty short sighted I think. Dad loved his time with BCC, working for them for 25 odd years before going into the private sector before retiring and emigrating to Canada, he is a wealth of information and could talk for hours about the different locations in Brum. I love the place and I got that from him I think!

[@bullringbirminghamnostalgi2527]

@@sloeginandsleep1170 People knock Brum but for those who live or lived there and actually appreciated the tradition of the markets, the atmosphere, the personalities that used to preside there it will always be in a hearts and leave an indelible mark on our lives. To this day I carry the experience of working in that market with me where I go. Be it work ethic or banter (The banter part is pretty hard to get away with these days in a corporate environment but I am just about pulling it off, lol).. I was once told by style of banter was factory talk. It wasn't where I got it from. Before factory life it was Bull Ring. Bull Ring will, and forever be in my heart. That 16 year old kid walking in to that building for the first time to graft as a barrow boy in the indoor market for my Auntie and Uncle will always be there. I am very grateful for the experience and memories.

[@sloeginandsleep1170]

@@bullringbirminghamnostalgi2527 One hundred percent! I grew up in Droitwich until I was 16, but it was stuffy, a little stuck up and I fit in as well as a kebab in a PETA convention. I moved to Brum from there, and Brum will always be home to me. It's got an atmosphere that people who only shop here just don't understand. It can be a bit run down, it can be a maze and it's always a good place to learn the way of the big cities. It's got it's own style, it's own character and its own life that you just can't always explain, it's just there isn't it. I spent my spare time in the old rag and the old Bullring, my first pint was in M&M's, met my wife while working in the Wollies in the Pallasades, meeting friends in the markets and seeing the characters and the faces we became familiar with as time went on. I once got a stern telling off from my dad after he spotted me while he was on a job, me having a cheeky can of cider and a smoke outside the Pershore Street Multi Story with friends. Got a smack around the ear for that one from mum! Like you, it's somewhere that left its mark and I'll never want to lose it. You're right on the banter. You have to be thick skinned to work in the trades and the markets of Brum, you gotta be willing to put the work in, but once you do, you're set for life lol.

[@bullringbirminghamnostalgi2527]

Could you cut, paste and send me your initial comment please bud by email? I’d love to use this on FB on some of the Birmingham groups because it’s so insightful. Rather then me typing this word for word as it will take ages. 😂

[@markhemming318]

I grew up on the town. We were the last real generation of townies. Ginos, the Matador, Toreador and many more

[@bullringbirminghamnostalgi2527]

I remember the Matador and Toreador.....lol...

[@buffetuk]

What a great video I do miss the old bull ring

[@Seany63]

Many happy childhood memories of the old Bull Ring (1960`s version) King Kong, the outdoor markets, the little carousel that I used to go on every Saturday when shopping with my mom... All replaced by something that looks like a fucking melted Darlek!!!

[@bullringbirminghamnostalgi2527]

The 80's as a kid and working in the indoor market was my fondest memories. So many characters in that market. I miss them all greatly.

[@allcingeye5881]

After brexit has settled we will have a lot of damage control to sort out its clear none of the political parties have been on the side of the British . just finding new ways to destroy our country while Germany has been building them selves up keeping our MPs quite by bribe and blackmail. so we are a country of slaves that live on the dole, as the rice get very rich and the poor very poor we have to start making it easy for our new invention to be made in England not given away to America . I know the rich just make money from shares but that dose not make or keep the money flowing unless the people makeing the money have ways to invest in new businesses. Time for real change.

[@kingwells2]

What in the name of god do you mean?

[@bullringbirminghamnostalgi2527]

When we lost our car industry in Brum back in 2005 I knew are era as a car manufacturer was well and truly done. Now we are a city of starbuck's over priced coffee, meaningless fashion trends and sterile, glass buildings.

[@allanbuttery5297]

Replaced the concrete with glass and that`s all.

[@bullringbirminghamnostalgi2527]

Like every modern City. Everything is sterile..

[@yell50]

I wanted to hear the commentary not for it to be drowned out by music

[@bullringbirminghamnostalgi2527]

Thank you for your comment. I tried to keep the music as low as possible for people to hear the commentary. Both played an important part of this mini documentary and narrating the story of Bullrings history. However there was a problem with the audible quality of the commentary due to the source coming from old archive footage from a vhs tape recorder. I tried to enhance it as best as I could. I hope it didn't ruin your viewing pleasure too much and you enjoyed the documentary.

[@yell50]

Bullring Birmingham Nostalgia Birmingham Nostalgia i just feel every day street sound effects should have been added along with a voice over rather than the music but still a great nostalgic trip.

[@bullringbirminghamnostalgi2527]

+mark caine I appreciate your input. I see what you are talking about however if you put more sound effects in such as street noise then it will further obscure and obstruct the commentary you was referring to which was already enhanced due to poor quality because it was from archive material. I did not think it was necessary to include the street noise to be honest as I wasn't trying to capture that. I think the music contributed to the atmosphere of the time during the 1960's and mid 90's. I wanted to capture those era's so everybody could feel it. Well that was what I was going for anyway. I have a lot of other video's from the old Bullring that carry the street noise from old news clips on here. Feel free to view them. I am glad you enjoyed the mini documentary and thank you for commenting.

[@darrendavis7613]

Great place before ajenda 21, now ajenda 30, so sad

[@bullringbirminghamnostalgi2527]

That's evolution I guess. We can't stop it.

[@Picnicl]

I regret the demolition that was done for its construction and I then regret its own demolition.

[@bullringbirminghamnostalgi2527]

Sadly you cannot stop change. People felt exactly the same when the old Bull Ring Market was destroyed to make way for the 60's re development. Then later people criticized that building because it looked like an eye sore. When the current Bullring was built it was recognized as a welcome change. Now even that's been criticized by people who wished the old Bull Ring had not been demolished. I think we are all guilty at looking through history with rose tinted glasses. But sadly the truth was nobody was coming to Birmingham in the late 90's. Bull Ring did become an eye sore and at night a no go area. When it was destroyed and the ring road went with it to usher in a new era it gave Birmingham back its second City status and now millions of tourist visit a year, billions have been invested in the city and its population has grown. Had Bull Ring still been here I doubt any of that would have happened today.

[@Candolad]

So, the "planners" decided to demolish a beautiful market hall with character and architectural style in order to create an eyesore? This represents the great concrete revolution of the 1960s which was intended to usher in a new world where we would all be happy ! It's more reminiscent of Soviet-style revolution.

[@bullringbirminghamnostalgi2527]

I think the poem which ended with St Martin bells ringing was very poignant and very fitting which is why I used it to close the first segment before opening up with the second which was the 1960s re development. However as bad as the design of the previouse centre was it still had the character of the market traders and that sense of tradition. Something the current sterile, faceless corporate monster of todays BullRing has because it has pushed that tradition of our markets out into the cold. Hammerson, along with the council have plans for a lesuire facility on the current occupied land of the indoor, rag and wholesale market which will be moved further down digbeth. I find it ironic and sad that what put what we see on the map today way back in the 1100,s has not only become a victim of its own sucess and creation but now treated with such contempt and disrespect..I hope you enjoyed the video though.

[@mistofoles]

Alexi Sayle narrating?

[@bullringbirminghamnostalgi2527]

Lol. No.

[@rockdude4life]

song at 5.55 please

[@rockdude4life]

thanks man

[@bullringbirminghamnostalgi2527]

Eco and the Bunny men. Nothing ever lasts forever.

[@crc778Hypnodoc]

Oops, wrong, I was 13 at the time

[@geraldhutchins1023]

surprises me they don't kock st martins down they got ridd of every think else

[@bullringbirminghamnostalgi2527]

I doubt it. St Martins is listed.

[@kojak6060]

Twelve years ago I made a short film about Birmingham. I would like to dedicate it to all my friends from the UK. :) kzbin.info/www/bejne/oYHGemqVdp5kkKs

[@bullringbirminghamnostalgi2527]

I went on to the link and it wouldn't play. I fancied watching it aswell.

[@kojak6060]

:)

[@crc778Hypnodoc]

P.P.S he smelled lovely by the way,. odd things you remember eh!

[@bullringbirminghamnostalgi2527]

lol.

[@Emerald007007]

Brum has been destroyed by the usual suspects.

[@regsis]

Poor Birmingham has lost it's charm

[@bullringbirminghamnostalgi2527]

Still got the people Regis. You will never get the true Brummie out the Bullring.

[@clairephilpott6703]

Dis is my car city

[@bullringbirminghamnostalgi2527]

Once it was. Brum was a huge motor city at one time. Then Rover fell and times changed to European shopping destinations.

[@allcingeye5881]

looks like biringham has been going backward for a long long time now jumped into the stone age

[@CaptainShonko]

That's right, the new library, cube, paradise circus eyesore being demolished, overseas investment, and more Michelin starred restaurants outside of London are just backward steps, bring back King Kong. All of the above was sarcasm in case you didn't realise.

[@allcingeye5881]

That takes me back ,king Kong where was it put

[@jonblazeinc]

@@CaptainShonko lol I agree....but I would love kong back, he left before I was born I would have loved to see him when I was going town as a kid

[@bullringbirminghamnostalgi2527]

Evolution is evolution I guess. Rose tinted glasses are easy to look through. But towards the end of the 90's nobody was coming to Bull Ring. I know. I was there.

[@carlitobrigante814]

better back then now it is shit

[@bullringbirminghamnostalgi2527]

Sadly nobody was coming to Brum towards the end. The development was inevitable.

[@mikehumble1120]

Oi Oi Chinn `ere!

[@bullringbirminghamnostalgi2527]

lol

[@Rock-Steady]

No matter how many Brazilian women clad only in feathers you throw at the Center of Brum, it'll always be a laughing stock in comparison to Cities such as Lisbon, Barcelona, Madrid, Florence, Hamburg, Prag, Paris, Rome, London, Copenhagen and that's a small amount of cities in Europe alone, forgetting the rest of the world. The center is a mishmash of ideas with no class to go with the money thrown at it - and that's coming from a Brummie.

[@bullringbirminghamnostalgi2527]

Sorry you feel that way.

[@SpeedTriple59]

Birmingham..a city with no identification,once a crap hole always a crap hole,a 60s concrete nightmare,coverd up by bits from Ikea,and a building with dustbin lids for effect..Terrible place..

[@SpeedTriple59]

Fait comment to a degree,not a arrogant point of view just one of comparison,maybe my personal points have been included but I still cannot get excited how Birmingham portrayal of a great city can be justified,looking for a wow factor from all this investment into a drab city I can't really get excited just another shopping centre with same old shops,I've worked in Birmingham in and out for 30 years never I'm impressed more depressed 60s concrete still rules it ,indoor market is depressing as hell,and the joke is it says welcome to the world famous indoor market...lol,compare this to what,Birmingham will always have a identity crisis...

[@CaptainShonko]

What a sweeping statement of utter ignorance. Well, at you least you don't live here eh! Obviously being the birthplace of the industrial revolution / age of enlightenment goes right over your uneducated head, history only started in the 60's after all!

[@bullringbirminghamnostalgi2527]

That's a shame you feel that way. I love Brum. Many people do and still do. Hope you change your mind someday.