BURIAL near STONEHENGE throws light on Bronze Age craftsmanship.

[@klondikechris]

It is funny how words can cloud meanings! I lived with a native woman who was a shaman. But..... What she was in her language translates to "speaker." One of her roles was to speak to people of other tribes in their languages. She knew about 16 (English was her 4th language). She also did medicines for people - we might say "medicine woman," although doctor/nurse would work. As a Bear Clan woman, she was also in line to become chief, and also act as a police person. These (and, more) were all part of the same role which we use the word "shaman" in English to describe. She did not wear bones, nor feathers, nor anything else to show what she was! Not even while demon hunting - another of her roles. Is a metal worker a shaman? Why not! Could we call a modern medical doctor a shaman? We don't, but could we? :)

[@Fredmayve]

It was the same with the Druids that are portrayed as pagan loopers but who were scientists, learned people.

[@SeikaGroves]

A Neolithic metalworker could be seen as a mystical figure because they worked with iron, copper, and other metals believed to have special powers. In the past, there was a belief that the energy and intentions of metalworkers became an inherent part of the objects they crafted, infusing the very essence of the pieces with their craftsmanship. This is the same attribution applied to modern black smiths as well. It seems to be a NEW AGE belief rather than one applied by people of that time. That being said, applying the term shaman to the person in this burial is incorrect. While a respected member of his community, he was most likely not anyone who wielded mystical powers. As for the use of the term "shaman", it is ungainly and misused far too often. Again a word that found relevance in the NEW AGE era but wasn't correctly applied. The word/term found its way out of Russia in the 1690s. During the mid-to-late 17th century, Russian-Cossack explorers and conquerors heard and recorded the word ‘saman’ from the Evanki tribe, a Tungus-speaking people of Siberian Russia. For those mountain-dwelling hunters and reindeer herders, ‘saman’ was an action word - derived from the Tunguso-Manchurian verb ‘sa’, meaning “to know” or “to heat oneself.” One translation of ‘saman’ is “to burn up; to set on fire,” signifying the inspired fever-like trance of the ancient shaman who moves energies between worlds. Such mastery of inner heat or fire is integral to Northern Asian shamanic practices - distinctive of that region. Shamans outside of Asia are usually not trained for ecstatic trances like those in Asian realms. They are still disciplined in controlling both physical and spiritual energies but not in the same manner. The word shaman suffers the same transition from a verb to a noun, much the same as the same as the word Viking today. Originally, Viking was an action word.

[@klondikechris]

@@SeikaGroves I lived with a shaman, but she did not use that word to describe herself even though that was our word for it. she was a northern Canadian native, and she did use the translate sometimes. As for metalworkers being held in high regard - this is kind of a modern guess, because we simply don't know!

[@Vilnoori]

Just a note about burial position, sometimes it is overthought: my dad worked in West Africa in the 70's and noticed that people were buried in a crouched or fetal position. He asked whether there was some religious or ceremonial significance to this. The answer he got was, "you don't have to dig as big of a hole as if they're stretched out."

[@kariannecrysler640]

This is why I love archaeology. It is constantly challenging & questioning our past. The excitement of sleuthing for humanity in history is an honorable pursuit.❤

[@rosemcguinn5301]

Fascinating content! And I cannot recall having ever seen flint cups before! 🤯One idea you might consider exploring a bit more is the study of shamanism in general. It is a quite old tradition that blacksmiths and specialist swordsmiths, etc (metal workers, after all) were considered as shamans or very nearly so BECAUSE (and this is the kicker) they were able to work with all of the elements of earth, air, fire and water in order to create unique and useful or beautiful objects. This was considered a form of magic or divination by some cultures. Many traditions would add the spiritual element of what was called ether by some culture groups. Metal working is a highly specialized field. Metal workers in general have always had to be highly trained. Shamanic cultures viewed/view all such creative stuff as being connected with the realm of the Unseen. Whether you two gents believe in an Unseen realm is beside the point. People in ancient times ALL did, whether we moderns do today or not. To them, it was not mere superstition. They did not view such matters as many do nowadays at all. Where I see scientists missing the mark quite often is the neglect of the ancient MIND and its overall spiritual outlook and worldview. Cheers, fellas!

[@portialancaster3442]

Thank you. I couldn't have said it better myself. I forget the name of the Greek god said to have brought metalsmithing to mankind, but it was considered a celestial art.

[@rosemcguinn5301]

Thank you. I really appreciate the positive feedback. 😊 And I think you'll find that the Greeks considered the god, Hephaestus to be the one who taught humankind metalworking. But that's only the Greeks! As I'm sure you're already aware, other ancient cultures had their own metalworking gods as a part of their pantheons, too. The ancient Judaic ppls even had their own tradition, that is fascinating. "1 Enoch 8 contains a fuller list of what the Watchers taught human beings, anthrôpoi in the Greek version (that is, not just men). It begins like this: Asael taught human beings to make swords of iron and weapons and shields and breastplates and every instrument of war. He showed them the metals of the earth and how they should work gold to fashion it suitably, and concerning silver, to fashion it for bracelets and ornaments for women.(8:1)." www.bookofenoch2020.com/paintings/asael-teaching-metalwork And as for the Watchers, according to some traditions, they not only taught things to humans, but also were very troublesome and even life threatening. Both the ancient Israelites and the ancient Greeks had similar traditions involving the Watchers breeding giants on human women that caused great havoc. By that I mean the Titans [Greek] and the Sons of Anak or the Rephaim [Old Testament]. There is a lot more to it than you and I would have time for here. ;)

[@portialancaster3442]

@@rosemcguinn5301 Wasn't the tribe of Dan the blacksmith tribe?

[@eardwulf785]

@@portialancaster3442 Hi, I just had to stick my two penneth in when I saw mention of Dan. The following is by no means related but interesting in its own right. So when the Romans reached the town where I live in the second half of the 1st century during their decades long conquest of the North they built a fort on the banks of the river Don. The river was the southern frontier of the territory belonging to the warlike Brigantes. The Roman's named their fort Danum (the foundations of which are still visible today) after the Celtic name of the river goddess, Danu or Dôn from Irish mythology. Today it's know as the Don Valley. There are/were other rivers, tribes and places across Europe and into Russia with the same name.

[@rosemcguinn5301]

@@portialancaster3442 Actually, I believe that they were more seafaring than anything else. Yep. Looked 'em up. They occupied the coast. Also, their tribal symbol was a set of scales symbolizing justice. I honestly dunno if any of the tribes had the distinction of being blacksmiths.

[@helenamcginty4920]

The almost throw away comment about believing that the tools themselves might have something of the spirit of the owner made me think, incongruously, of my kitchen knives. I have three and only just realised that I think of them differently. Almost as if they themselves are somehow endowed with a personality. Woo or what? I have favourite dressmaking scissors and screwdrivers as well. Is this common? 😲🤪🤭🙄

[@roxiepoe9586]

I have seemingly identical paint brushes and one will be favored over the rest. This is also true of my clay working tools. I have a little bent piece of metal that used to belong to another potter which I use for a particular type of trimming. I would have a hissy fit if it were to be lost. I would feel as though he had been lost with it. Silly, perhaps, but true.

[@susanroutt6690]

I use my great-grandmother’s skillet nearly every day. It’s the same pan I learned to cook with. Heaven help you if I catch you putting my skillet in the dishwasher or using my sewing scissors to cut paper!😆

[@roxiepoe9586]

The weapons my father actually used are living artifacts of the man who fought with them. I could pretend to be all modern and scientific, but I know what I know. There seem to be a number of postings about metalworkers being considered to be shaman. It makes sense to me because I can attest that if I set up to paint and I am doing a credible job, it is often called magic. It quite often draws a group of observers who are fascinated by seeing something made which they cannot make themselves.

[@Eyes_Open]

Excellent topic. Thanks much.

[@allenkinahan6955]

Were they simply using the broken battle axe pieces for metal forming? My silver smithing bench is full of broken forks and old spoons and dental picks and broken hammers. Couldn't it be that simple?

[@girlnorthof60]

Exactly what I wondered. Taken a step further, could some of these tools/jet beads/etc be trading barter, with some of the items never actually used by this guy in the first place?

[@andrewswanlund]

It seems likely that at the time the metalwork was done, at least in part, by shamans. So much early alchemy associated with the creation of alloys.

[@nelsaf365]

That's exactly what I was pondering. Alchemist, jeweler, or healer? Barber and/or doctor? Why not?

[@pamelamarek2309]

Thank You ✨Wonderful Information👩🏻‍🌾

[@emseebe]

This is absolutely fascinating! The potential windows this opens into our understanding of the past is astounding. P.S. I really appreciate the slide out biographies of the people mentioned. It helps a lot with viewing continuity (at least for me anyway) as I don't have to tab out to google up the person noted, I can just pause the screen and then continue listening to the conversation.

[@wakeoftheflood2]

Very interesting discussion, thanks for sharing it with us. My opinion, however, is that early metalworkers likely were seen as a type of shaman figure; this was a 'new' technology that took raw stone and turned it into something very different, almost like alchemy. It was a skill that must have taken years to develop, and the knowledge needed must have been guarded and passed down in a very special way. So, this person might have been a shaman, or maybe a metal worker wasn't much different in terms of being a person held in high spiritual regard in the community.

[@Fredmayve]

We need to stop with the spooky fantasies though. People were smart as hell. There were learned people who studied.

[@pollauritsabrahamsenjq1618]

Just like software developers today, are they shamans? I'm not sure 🤔

[@SeikaGroves]

They didn't turn stone into metal... they heated and reworked what was already metal. It just happened to be found embedded into stone.

[@kimmcroberts5111]

Tks!

[@radstar2185]

I think anyone that worked metal, especially those that made bronze, would have been considered wizards. Especially at the start of the metal age.

[@Watcher1852]

GREAT INFO THANK YOU GUYS

[@ThePrehistoryGuys]

Thanks for watching!

[@chubbymoth5810]

Cool research!

[@davidcrossley]

How many metalworkers needed : In medieval times every village had a blacksmith.

[@vanzikky]

It's pretty general to apply shaman, priestess, etc to people found with exceptional gravegoods. It probably needs a general review of the labels applied. Or 'battleaxe'. Maybe they were just tools.

[@vomact1052]

Excellent piece. You fellows are always a high point of the day or week.

[@deormanrobey892]

No one's a tailor or jeweler, everyone's a warrior or a witch doctor. 😁 Are you guys going to do Q&A again, or is it too much of a pain in the nether region?

[@Anuchan]

Tailors and jewelers wouldn't get respectful burials. They'd get chopped up and added to the gruel.

[@richardkelly9156]

Flint miner quarrying 😎

[@elizabethmcglothlin5406]

So, not a 'shaman' but a fabricator of some kind? That would have been pretty 'magical' too!

[@bonitareardon5987]

I have a question and this is meant seriously: Might we be entering a second hunter/gatherer age, because most of us don't know how to farm but go gathering in stores for our needs, no farming required! What is the difference, aside from the gore factor, between shopping and hunting? Would love to hear your take on this.

[@barkershill]

Well obviously farming is still taking place ,well it certainly is down here in Dorset anyway, it’s just that you and all the other urban folk in the world are completely alienated from it . Which I have to say I find a bit sad . One way or another all the food on the super market shelves had its origin on a farm somewhere in the world . Take a pepperoni pizza as an example . The base is made of wheat flour and the pepperoni is made from chopped up pig . .I suppose the biggest difference between hunter gatherers and modern urban folk is that people today do work and earn money and exchange it for food , where as with hunters ,no exchange takes place with others ,no working to get money , you and your family just ate what you personally could collect . I don’t know if this is what you were asking , but I reckon if everyone in the world suddenly started hunting for their food all the wild animals would soon be extinct

[@bonitareardon5987]

@@barkershill Thanks for your reply, I understand where the food in the market comes from but you have made a good point about exchange of tokens for food, etc. That would be how modern non-farmers are different from hunter gatherers. And I would definitely not recommend hunting wild animals for all your food, although there are some who attempt it. It was an idea I had because I go shopping with my dog and we call it "hunting". The idea got me thinking. Although ancient people did trade for items but probably not for food, and not with "money" as far as we know. As a craftsperson who makes socks on a sock machine, I have a definite category in my mind of "socks as money" which may have been similar for flint knappers or other skilled craftpeople in ancient times

[@lazzymclandrover4447]

I think you guys need to have a chat with Jon from Cregganford...

[@alisturkericmacnanty159]

You two are great and fascinating.

[@Alienalloy]

shamans my arse.. if its not a druid priest, its a warrior princes...its never dav the brewer, or bob the roundhouse builder, valid people of the community that everyone would have missed and would have given a good send off to... "Oleg, have you heard, steve the metalsmith has copped it" "oh no... he made my Mrs wedding tork.. and our Glennis's" "yeah.. made most of the villages wedding tat..." "ummmm... will, be a good send off i recon...ill get my spade" "me to.. ill rustle the lads up" "ill ask his mrs what she want to get rid of now the hording mental's gone... and chuck it in with him" ps, commented for the algorithm and liked.

[@badgerpa9]

Shame on them calling him a Shamon just from his tools. Nice video Gents, thank you, hope you have a great new year.

[@gogogeedus]

:)

[@gogogeedus]

took me a while LOL

[@TacDyne]

13:45 THANK YOU! You guys always put a good, hard reality cap on these things.

[@dougfife7956]

Thanks for your work, I am a big fan of pre history

[@clusterfu]

My people! I recently discovered I share DNA from an archaeology dig near Stone Henge (Dorset). I got the info on mytrueancestry. I totally recommend it. I have no affiliation, just a user/fan. I love these videos! Thank you!

[@barkershill]

Stonehenge is in Wiltshire . Sorry, but couldn’t resist pointing this out .

[@clusterfu]

@@barkershill Thank you. I do know that. They are about an hour apart drive time, I think. To me, that is in the geographic area of my ancestors. Much love ✌️🌈

[@clayshearer5602]

PLEASE have Mr. Bennet Bacon on!!

[@janetmackinnon3411]

What insights! Thank you. What would have been thepoint of a flint cup?

[@ThePrehistoryGuys]

Hi Janet. There is no direct evidence from the cups but it is discussed whether or not they may have been to do with making adhesive compounds for the application of the gold onto other surfaces. Quote from Crellin's paper: We know that sheet-gold was applied to other materials, and Needham and Woodward (Reference Needham and Woodward2008: 17 & 24; cf. Taylor Reference Taylor1980: 47-48) have suggested that organic resin or adhesive might have been used in this process. Whilst we do not have direct evidence of resin within the grave assemblage, the tools associated with pigment processing and the flint nodule cups could potentially have been part of this process (Table 3). The use of ochre in compound adhesives has been documented elsewhere (e.g. Kozowyk et al. Reference Kozowyk, van Gijn and Langejans2020), while hematite was found in the infilling material used in goldworking in Mycenaean Greece (Konstantinidi-Syridi et al. Reference Konstantinidi-Syvridi, Papadimitriou, Philippa-Touchais and Goumas2014). Ochre, however, may have also been used as a polishing agent (and is commonly used in the production of modern jewellery; Mattson & Jones Reference Mattson and Jones2020: 422).

[@janetmackinnon3411]

@@ThePrehistoryGuys Thank you so much. The working of this extraordinary metal is so important--indestructable, untarnishable soft enough not to need enormous heat, and shiny, shiny, shiny like the sun!

[@megret1808]

I’d heard that even into the Middle Ages metal workers were often regarded as somewhat magical

[@Fredmayve]

In Ireland there is a practice of placing valued objects on the coffin. The Catholic Church tries to stop it, periodically, but it keeps coming back. Family photo, something they made, flag of their gaa team, but anything important in their lives really. I assure you the deceased are not shamans .

[@helenamcginty4920]

Yesterday read 2 reports on the web from 2020 and 2021 about a find in 1970 local to where I used to live. The new reports werent just factually incorrect if the original less excited reports were correct but invented assumptions with no evidence about the area 10,000 years ago. I already knew a lot about this find from reading years ago and only looked it up to check the date of the find. (The Carleton Elk hunted during the Mesolithic and now in the Harris Museum in Preston)

[@orsonzedd]

The title sounds like a book

[@Jabberwoky]

Interesting thought, in 4000 years what would an archaeologist think of my toolkit, was I a bricklayer, an artist or a dentist. Perhaps we are looking at this toolkit completely wrong, it could be a quite normal kit that is also used for specialist purposes because that is what he/she had to hand?

[@napalmholocaust9093]

I have boar tusks I removed myself, 3 pairs extracted (sawn out) and 3 boar skulls. Most all of them crack at both ends. Doesn't take but a year. Only ones that didn't are the thin sickles of a pot belly. They should show severe damage if used as tools. A horse tooth would be better in my opinion.

[@megret1808]

At that time the distinction between stone and metal had yet to be established. For example, the ‘Philosopher’s Stone’ is more likely to be metallic

[@feralbluee]

so interesting about how artifacts are labelled by our culture from over what? 4,000 years ago. so the Shaman/ tool kit phenomenon is fascinating. can we imagine that humans felt sexuality completely differently than we have in the past 10,000 years? ancient mankind was much closer to nature than we became in our walled off cities and farm communities. For instance, Egyptian myths are totally different from those in the Torah. thanks, guys. really enjoying these videos. :} 🦅🐺🐻🐻‍❄️🐍🕊️🐉🏹🛖🏜️⛩️⚰️🌞🌖🌬️🌊🔥🪵🌲🍄‍🟫🪨🧜🏻‍♀️🧚🏻🧟‍♂️🧛🏼🧌🧝🏼‍♀️🧝🏼‍♂️💂🏽‍♂️👳🏻‍♂️🧕🏾🧔🏼‍♀️👩🏽‍🦳

[@lazenbytim]

Blacksmith was always considered an alchemist of sorts.

[@awf6554]

A bit more detail on the new findings would be helpful. This is a disconnected ramble. edit: finally in the last 8th of the video more information.

[@brownnoise357]

How would anyone recognise if the burial was of a disreputable Secondhand Chariot Salesman ? Sorry, just couldn't resist. Bob. 🤔👍✨️

[@frankrodriguez9697]

I am curious about the use of the difference between casting metal and forging in the Neolithic. At what point will we start taking myths and legends as history. Also the polishing of wooden implements like the act of boneing the surface of a bat.

[@gogogeedus]

I think the burial of weapons and tools in graves with their owners was an gesture of understanding of obsolescence and evolution by the community, to me it is saying we are moving forward with our technologies and disregarding our previous technology.

[@jennycoffey1443]

It would seem craftworking care would be trade teacher boycott patches with that all too perfect jade sword at the temple. The perfect specimen would be at the ,"Forbidden City," of governors ?

[@dadsonworldwide3238]

Everyone should be self sufficient with as many skills as possible but only those with the most respect would be like today they get the favor of the community. Everyone in some way was a shaman or metal worker on different levels. Different seasonal practices and these just buried in this moment of activities .

[@TheDeadlyDan]

The old saw "it's a tomb or a temple" is based on previous experience of published digs. It may be an anecdotal sentiment, but it highlights a modern bias. This idea of 'going to church' is a rather modern concept, while religion in our deep past was simply part of a culture. Your life reflected your religion in every aspect. A burial for a God or a house of a God, perhaps, but again this is most likely only within the last few millennia, and the earliest examples of temples weren't meant as gathering spots for the populace. You two have already described a good many of the cursus as more appropriate to sport than to religion. People have always gathered for competitive events. I would further suggest that astronomy was more useful to navigation and cartography than to worship or planting crops. We know the Pacific navigators have used the stars forever as a map of the globe. You don't have to be on water to memorize that map. Another fairly recent modern bias - if it's astronomy in the past, it's really astrology around farming . . . Despite a good many of these stellar alignments having nothing to do with agriculture. Not every structure is a temple or a tomb. Some are sport arenas and some are learning centers.

[@Mrch33ky]

Eyebrows boys! Mind the eyebrows.

[@allenkinahan6955]

Could one of you answer this for me? I understand archeology endevours to learn from what is actually there. Completely scientific and reasonable. But why isn't it a requirement archeologists have some background in anthropology, at least comparative? I realize you want to discern who these people were and why be buried with these things, but without infusing your finds with a perspective on human thought, aren't they in a way 'out of context' for you? I've seen finds being brought up in the even the 90s with the archeologists there positing the most absurd conjectures on the objects and I just couldn't believe they were so out of touch. Our understanding of culture has progressed so far since those Victorian era digs and models of ancient religions. When are they going to stop referring back to them? Signed, a frustrated armchair Bronze Age enthusiast.

[@debrarobinson57]

Good point. In some cases, previous archaeology has misidentified remains as male, when modern examination has revealed that they are in fact female.

[@barkershill]

Good point . I guess there is only so far that science can go and then conjecture has to take over , and as you say some of it leading to some pretty daft ideas . Seriously, would love to read about some of the absurd conjectures that you have personally encountered

[@louisbaldwin7097]

Hello . i understand the name has connotations to it , but for the early antiquarians you can understand why they thought that , even by today it's still a unique burial by british bronze age standards. Shamanistic practices were part of early indo european culture . And Cunnington wouldve been aware of peoples who still practiced shamanism to draw his conclusion. Also i don't think the finding of metal working does anything to detract from the (shaman, priest, magic user) name but rather inforces it, as these early metal workers must have been seen as people with divine knowledge. I think you need that bit of romance to get people interested or do we change the name of the giants grave and stop saying the amesbury archer as you can't say if he even fired a bow only people put arrows in his grave ?? The amesbury arrowhead collector is better.

[@Fredmayve]

The truth is always far far more interesting than made-up hokum.

[@louisbaldwin7097]

@@Fredmayve yeah thats true but what truth are you talking about

[@davidcrossley]

How many "battle axes" are actually carpenters' hammers? There would have been more carpenters than metalworkers!

[@alangknowles]

How do you make flint cups?

[@ThePrehistoryGuys]

A very good question Alan. Look out for when James Dilley @AncientCraftUK is on the show again - perhaps we'll ask him then. Michael.

[@JohnBurman-l2l]

We live in a time that glorifies lives of excessive comfort...that hides the dying in Hospitals as if they have a medical condition. I'm sure in the past death was a close event. Living was hard not necessarily long, and certainly not trivialised by customs and entertainement. Shamans would give meaning to the transition from life to death.

[@portialancaster3442]

Some of this reminded me of how all bodies of water, no matter how small, found with broken pits of trash in them are considered by archaeologist to be Sacred Wells and the broken bits Ritual Objects. In the US, many people have ornamental, fake, wishing wells in their gardens and public fountains often have coins in them left by everyday people when they make a wish. There's even a large fountain in Las Vegas, a gambling mecca in Nevada, that people throw coins it. Will this be interpreted as a Sacred Well and the coins Ritual Offerings one thousand years from now? So much bs in archaeology, all done to tell a "story". I can make up my own "stories". Give me the truth, nothing but the truth, or admit ignorance. Is that too much to ask?

[@Fredmayve]

I agree that the obsession with "ritual" is silly and annoying. There seems to me (and others) that the dumping of hoards into lakes and bogs was done to stop destabilising levels of wealth and power in the hands of individuals. There is also the business of the killing of kings after 1 year. In medieval times there were periodic debt write offs. We have forgotten this these days .

[@reekiereekie7264]

Is chucking money in a well not a form of religious (superstitious) offering

[@Fredmayve]

@@reekiereekie7264 It's a celebration of release from surplus goods. It's a feeling that what goes around comes around. Returning stuff to nature.

[@ianrosie4431]

How laughable. We thought he was a shaman when he was really working class.

[@gruboniell4189]

Metal workers-1/200 ppl

[@man.inblack]

Why not both? Craftsmen in history and mythology have had ‘mystical’ powers attributed to them, and technology amongst ignorance can be treated as magic. We can imagine whatever we like from the evidence, we just have to deal with the ambiguity of our conclusions

[@markashdown1314]

I employed a self appointed female shaman. No evidence ever presented, highly amusing though.

[@kerrykrishna]

After ten seconds, I can tell someone has turned the bass on your voice up SO much that my bloody subwoofer is tickling my feed. No hunman voice does this without EQ. I am interested in this subject , but horrid audio is just too much . Cary on...

[@Moose42]

Why so much BS and few pictures of what your are talking about? Show more pictures than your faces.

[@keltyk]

If every community has a metalworker every generation, each will have a burial. So after a few 100 years there will be a lot of metalworker burials in the area

[@flipflopski2951]

Somebody writes a paper on a guy who was buried with metal working tools but we shouldn't call him a metal worker?... and shaman stuff but we shouldn't call him a shaman?... and no suggestions on what we should call him?...

[@pamelamarek2309]

The tools are also tools that the Creator of the Universe Created✨Replicas symbolical.✨Perhaps? 👩🏻‍🌾✨🪔