Buying a USED Sonex or Experimental? Watch THIS First! Sonex Aircraft Interview Part # 5

[@MadSocial]

Glad I tuned in to this. I'm about to buy a kit and didn't think about insurance yet . I did my entire private pilot certificate in a light spot aircraft. I wonder if that even matters? I need transition training to Cessna 😂

[@LeftSeatAdventures]

Thanks for stopping by! There are insurance options while your building as well, as most homeowner's insurance policies won't cover a kit being lost in say a fire. I agree with Mark in just starting with bare bones liability once your homebuilt is flying. I see you're flying a SportStar, we also have one locally I wanted to use for transition training. But at that time, none of the insurance companies allowed it. "So you're basically wanting me to fly over gross in my own plane?" No response. When that time comes, I recommend getting quotes form multiple companies and/ or using a broker who may be able to negotiate your light sport time.

[@weekendhack.whatsnext]

Great video. I finally picked up my second hand Waiex B kit last week. I did have some concerns when considering this route but the fact that it was originally a factory quick build means that most of the main structure should be perfectly fine. The previous owner also did not complete a lot of work that was not concealed. He also took a lot of photos of the work that he did complete and gave me those on a thumb drive. In addition he also forwarded all of the communication that he had with Kerry at Sonex and had updated the plan revision in red marker on each page so those will be hard for me to miss during the build. I think that I got lucky in a number of ways. I purchased a complete quick build kit that I get to do most of the work on and it came with just about everything I need to get it in the air with the Aerovee Turbo engine kit and most accessories other than avionics for about half of what he paid in 2017 and about 45% of what it would cost to purchase today.

[@MadSocial]

Yeah...I agree...buying a "Quick Built" plane seems to be the way to go. Even me...I plan on buying a QUICK build and my husband is an A&P so he'll do most of the work with my assistance. We are going with Quick build, more so to get in the air faster.

[@weekendhack.whatsnext]

@@MadSocial there is also a little more peace of mind on the main components. I wish that I had an AP handy with my build.

[@LeftSeatAdventures]

Cool, do you plan on filming any of your build? I'd say you're in pretty good shape, sounds like a seller and opportunity I would be comfortable dealing with as well.

[@weekendhack.whatsnext]

@@LeftSeatAdventures I do plan on filming a lot of my build but not sure if anyone will want to watch. I want to make sure that it does not become a distraction because build quality is far more important than views. LOL

[@LeftSeatAdventures]

I definitely think you'll have an audience, I've gotten/ seen multiple comments to the effect that there isn't enough B model content. But filming a task certainly makes it take that much longer. If I were going to do it, I'd probably use a similar style as Project 2 Aero.

[@pegashus1]

Sonex has recently announced a collaboration between Fly Eagle Sport and Acrisure Insurance offeribg a transition training program at Glendale, Arizona.

[@robertswafford4145]

I bought a used CGS Hawk and wanted to covert to Poly fiber from the old sailcloth covering before flying it. Once I stripped off the covering and saw the construction quality I knew I’d never fly it. A few years later I bought Sonex planset #301 and built the empenage. When I went to the workshop and learned Sonex was going to get into kits, I sold that project in hopes I would buy a complete Sonex kit. Sadly, I never got around to it. But I still dream of owning and flying my own Sonex, especially with all of the new improvements.

[@LeftSeatAdventures]

Yikes! Good on you for making the right decision on the Hawk. I had to sell my Sonex, but I hope to actually build my own as well. Hang in there on your Sonex dream!

[@robertswafford4145]

@@LeftSeatAdventures My eyes popped out in this video when he said there was no riveting of the ribs to the spar! I don’t even know how that could happen. Literally the ONLY bucked rivets on the airplane. Thanks for this video!

[@SoloRenegade]

I want the insurance companies to explain how to give dual instruction in a single seater....

[@sleepingdogs8939]

The local EAA Chapter which I belong to has a fellow who bought a already built Onex. When the A&Ps and IAs in the chapter started looking close at it they found all kinds of problems. It was decided by the owner to fix all the problems. Turned out to be a complete rebuild. There was an aluminum plate, the main spar as I require, had a 3/8" bolt that was drilled in half and another bolt installed perpendicular to the 3/8" bolt! So be careful and look very close at any experimental aircraft you are thinking about buying.

[@LeftSeatAdventures]

😳 Yikes! Absolutely, everyone needs to do their due diligence before purchasing any airplane. Thanks for sharing!

[@aerostaraircraftsanctuary604]

Just bought a Sonex B partially complete!

[@LeftSeatAdventures]

Sweet! I see you have some other videos, are you going to film it? There's a serious lack of B model content on here.

[@aerostaraircraftsanctuary604]

@@LeftSeatAdventures Yes ! Already started getting some footage. "Stay Tuned"

[@LeftSeatAdventures]

@@aerostaraircraftsanctuary604 Excellent, glad to hear it. 👍👍👍

[@h2otek312]

Outstanding topic! Touched on all my major concerns. Most of which I wouldn't have known to care about six months ago. I still have so much to learn about this business. Quick build sure is looking like a great option. I heard insurance was tough, I sure didn't realize what a catch 22 it has become.

[@LeftSeatAdventures]

Yup, a lot of this were things I didn't know either until after I got my plane. Thanks for watching!

[@wallymurray620]

Another great video! I’ve been wondering about buying used, one to save some time and in more than a few I’ve seen it has seemed like a more cost effective way to get a plane. Seen a few complete aircraft that are priced the same or even lower than a kit before even adding the cost of an engine or avionics. But to be honest, I’m retired, always looking for something to keep me busy and the idea of building a kit is quite attractive. If I could find a kit that someone has not completed to much I’d consider that but I think Iwill probably buy and build a new one. One thing I have wondered about is buying a kit and then also buying a cheap used one to scrap for the engine and or avionics but even that doesn’t seem like a real smart idea as if it cheap, can you rely on those parts? Big believer in you get what you pay for. Hadn’t thought about transition training, one more thing to put on the list and glad you covered the insurance issue and the reminders about the various resources that the EAA has. Up till now my membership has been mostly about the monthly magazine, time to researching their pages for help and info. Overall, super video. Thanks again Matt,

[@LeftSeatAdventures]

Another option I've considered is buying a legacy Sonex project/ partial build and then ordering the B model conversion kit as well. In the right scenario, that could be VERY cost effective. Keep your eyes open, good opportunities come and go regularly.

[@wallymurray620]

@@LeftSeatAdventures Yea, that’s definitely another way to go. One thing I have done is look on Sonex’s site as to where planes are being built and such and I have found one near me that looks to be an early kit by number and still isn’t complete. Ive thought about about contacting the builder to see if they have lost interest in building and would consider selling the kit. If it’s worth buying and the price is right, then you idea of changing it over to a B model could work. One more question you may or may not know, am I correct in what I’ve read elsewhere that for a fee I can contact Sonex, transfer ownership and then get factory support?

[@LeftSeatAdventures]

Yes, when your transfer the plans, you basically sign a bill of sale and liability waiver with Sonex Aircraft. This grants access to tech support and the web store. Conversely you can pay $10k for that access without the liability waiver. www.sonexaircraft.com/eshop/cart.php?target=product&product_id=16936&category_id=367

[@ronedson687]

Where is there a $15 000.00 Sonex??? Not on Barnstormers!

[@LeftSeatAdventures]

Hahaha, yea the market is pretty inflated right now across the board. But keep your eyes open as they still pop up from time to time. Sometimes as an unfinished project or estate sale though. But the market will eventually correct as it always does.

[@johnboylong40]

One for $21,000 on trade a plane. Out of Tacoma WA

[@kazansky22]

I don't have a local EAA chapter lol

[@LeftSeatAdventures]

Maybe a good opportunity to start one? "Build it and they will come." Although if you're traveling, I have found EAA Chapters to be inviting to visitors. Even easier is showing up to one's pancake breakfast or other event.

[@SoloRenegade]

insurance companies are putting themselves out of business. people will be forced to fly without insurance, or not fly at all.

[@LeftSeatAdventures]

Yup, I've seen multiple posts from older Sonex owners giving it up citing insurance as the primary cause. No way I'm paying $3k+/ yr for full coverage.

[@DCGULL01]

OMG! I love hearing Mark discuss the $15k Sonex 'project' plane nightmares, because- how often have we looked at those barnstormer listings? Seriously, I've almost written checks- sight unseen- potential disasters! I think I've been through EVERY page of Sonex' website and I don't recall seeing any of the pages mentioned. I would give a limb to hear Mark do an EAA seminar on buying used. I just found LSA this week- and, have been catching videos here & there- didn't relize how much time was invested into this project! Great information, can't wait to see more now.

[@LeftSeatAdventures]

Yup, really have to do your research before and during buying a used Sonex or any Experimental. The Sonex site has a TON of archived pages that will only come up in the search function. Sonex Builders has a bunch of info too. Thanks for stopping by! Yea, it was just about a year from when I bought it until the first flight. Honestly haven't been able to fly it as much as I'd like to, mostly life stuff, or as Sonex calls it the "reality check."

[@DCGULL01]

@@LeftSeatAdventures No doubt, but- you've been addressing things one bite at a time: canopy, windscreen, CDI, fuel issues- what I call 'real' 2nd owner issue clearance. I would love to have you or someone do a couple of real videos about pre-flight- broken down to airframe, brakes, engine, control surfaces... Then, another video about checklists: engine running, on the stop short line checks. Also, the 2180 VW engine seems to be worthy of some discussion in detail. I'd love to know the numbers: over the fence, over the numbers, flair speeds, Vx, Vy, Vne all in one video for the Sonex/Waiex... Lots on good videos to watch, and- a very competent little plane, but- can't seem to find much 'meat n potatos' specifics from owners?

[@LeftSeatAdventures]

I'm currently working on the charging system as well, you'll find the Revmasters have an intermittent overcharging issue. Yea, I typically edit out the pre flight and taxi footage as most viewers want to get right to the action. But separate videos just for that purpose aren't a bad idea. V speeds are going to differ between individual Sonex builds, don't take anyone's quoted numbers as gospel. Each one is different, you have to use the numbers determined from actual Phase 1 testing. You could then run through the EAA Flight Test cards yourself and see what you get. Some videos currently available are from Bob Mika, he recently put together a video "owners manual" for whoever buys/ bought Katie: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fKXKq42MnM9ng5Y

[@gregpalmer3831]

The government wants to end GA. this is one way of doing that.

[@LeftSeatAdventures]

Right out of the playbook. No need to ban it, just make it too expensive for regular people to participate. 👍

[@IvanMidwing]

Sonex is nice :) Anyone having the drawings for the nose art on the Sonex ?

[@LeftSeatAdventures]

Thanks! The previous owner had the shark mouth custom made at a local vinyl graphics place. Some websites like Amazon do carry them: amzn.to/3EhZchP

[@IvanMidwing]

@@LeftSeatAdventures Thank you for the info!! Blue Skies!