I have followed this KZbin channel for years. I also used his referral service on a recent solar install and it went off without a hitch. He is a straight talker and always informative.
@Josephthedreamer7777 ай бұрын
In south australia, we've had a Powerwall 2 for two years this august, and already had 10kw of solar. We rarely draw from the grid and have a bill in credit of around $960 as of today. It will pay for itself by this november.
@Outback_Truckie2 ай бұрын
In Townsville we have a 15kw solar system on the shed with no battery in sight and still get at least a $100 credit per month due to the solar making at least 100kwh per day. If we had batteries we would need 3 x powerwalls and paying $40K is so crazy to get off the grid. We have a 17kva generator that powers the whole house when we have a blackout and/or cyclones.
@Josephthedreamer7772 ай бұрын
@@Outback_Truckie yep, you have to go with what works for your situation. When/if the grid goes down, I don't think your solar will provide you power. Tesla have a 'gateway' device that allows us to still use our solar if the grid is down. You have a decent generatoras back up, but we are in the burbs.. lol 😆. 15 kw is huge! Wow
@TrevorForward7 ай бұрын
Given that the price of EV batteries are now around AUD250 per Kwh , why is it that the same batteries used in home batteries are so ridiculously more expensive. I understand the need for a battery management system but they can't be more complicated than in an EV?
@xJI007 ай бұрын
Because people will pay it. Suppliers will milk it for as long as they can.
@ryanm7847 ай бұрын
I agree 100% with Trevor 15+ kWh 48v CE approved batteries for around 4K are available and are compatible with good quality hybrid inverters such as Goodwe/Deye that cost no more than 2k for a 6kw throughput which would easily power a standard home. the Bs with battery approvals is just a money grab! and no extra cost gateway Bs is needed as the inverters have inbuilt backup. I say it’s nearly come time to disconnect from the grid!!
@clintonmorgan63127 ай бұрын
Rest
@markumbers53627 ай бұрын
Perhaps you are talking about the battery pack because CATL LFP batteries are a lot cheaper than $250 per kw. For the individual batteries that go in to a power wall I am pretty sure it's well below $100 AUD now, plus sodium is being scaled up at 30% less than LFP. Everyone talks about the price of EVs coming down to be on parity with ICE but simple storage battery prices could easily come down 50%. When supply exceeds demand and new competition comes in this will happen and when it does the grid operators better watch out. The amount of people going off grid would become out of control. Even with todays prices the need to run expensive poles and wires to rural properties has become completely unnecessary .
@VK4VO7 ай бұрын
@@markumbers5362 It still cost in excess of $50k for an off grid that will do you 3 to 5 days without sun,,, not viable or cost effective considering 10 to 15 years and you need to replace it
@Alan.livingston7 ай бұрын
And my LG is turned off again for another widespread factory recall due to house fires. Definitely do your market research before choosing a unit.
@Ineluki_Myonrashi7 ай бұрын
You're right, I did my research and got BYD, ya should have got a BYD.
@Alan.livingston7 ай бұрын
@@Ineluki_Myonrashi If I were in the market now I would probably have gone for a BYD. They seem to have a good value for money, which is my language. Unfortunately I bought years ago and realistically the only choices I had were the 6 or 10 LG or the Tesla which was very expensive and on back order for six months.
@whatcouldgowrong79147 ай бұрын
And LG is one of the more reputable manufacturers which should tell you all you need to know..
@ZisWile6 ай бұрын
And who to quote a Tesla employee makes the cells for tesla you guessed it the one being recalled.
@Kiwigeo83396 ай бұрын
@@stevelamb6720 suggest you look at the stats for lithium battery fires.....I can't find any cases of a home battery sparking a fire in Australia. The fires are mainly occurring when people charge their cheap ar*e e scooters and other battery powered devices inside their houses.
@tezza22137 ай бұрын
Excellent video. Who wouldn't go to this guy to install a battery, when he gives you so much upfront honesty and facts about batteries.
@timefthymiou9927 ай бұрын
Finn doesn't do installations, He only does blogs, but recommends third party installers (for a kick back)
@RK.77967 ай бұрын
No! It does not worth it at all!
@jjolla63917 ай бұрын
all this up-front honesty has confirmed the stupidity of wide scale adoption of solar
@KRM857 ай бұрын
Mate. You don't get your money back from the batteries. They'll die before that.
@timefthymiou9927 ай бұрын
@@KRM85 i got my money back in 5 1/2 years, my Tesla power wall 1, is 8 years old & still going, my two LG batteries were also 8 years old & were recently replaced due to a recall, they were working perfectly as well. You see, I don’t throw $30k away if I don’t do my research. For me, it’s an investment (which has paid off), it’s not for everyone & it’s NOT set & forget. I check the forecast everyday to make sure I maximise my savings, im retired & can do that, but a busy family will not have the time to think about their solar/battery, which will obviously effect their payback time.
@josephking65157 ай бұрын
We put 6.6kW of panels on the roof in early 2020 and although we now generate 56% of our electric usage (averaged over a 12 month period) our electric bills have actually increases by about 3%. Put a battery in mid 2021. I first started using fluro bulbs in 1992 and have been fairly energy conscious ever since and have had LED bulbs in the house and garage for the last 7 years. What we are really missing is an extra 13.3kWh of roof panels and an additional 20kWh of battery storage. During summer there are several days where we would be totally self sufficient if we weren't force fed 7% grid power even when there is full solar available and / or electrickery still available for use in the battery. Bloody annoying that.
@michaeljoncour49037 ай бұрын
i have been off grid for 33 yrs, no gas, more panels is always good, i have 180 panels mostly secondhand $30 dollars each, turn fridge and freezer off at night so that we can use aquarium heaters and dehumidifier instead, don't keep meat in fridge, transfer ice in to fridge overnight. i bought 2 pallets of big batteries about 25 yrs ago second hand they are still in reasonable condition because we mostly use whats coming in, the bulk of those panels only bought in last couple of years from a solar panel installer.
@pctong53877 ай бұрын
One of the best informative videos I have seen. Thank you from New Zealand.
@SolarQuotes7 ай бұрын
thank you, from across the ditch!
@AlwaysLearningStuff4 ай бұрын
By my calculation my powerwall will break even in around 23 years. Paid 16k and saving around $700 a year based on around $2 a day saved being the difference between export and import rate for the 9kw a day it supplies.
@xiaowei17 ай бұрын
Queensland currently has a rebate of $3,000 to $4,000 depending on income (this will not last long). I just installed a battery because of it, which cost $10,000 before the rebate (I'm told prices have gone up). I have an EV plan, which gives free power from 11am to 2pm, so I get to charge the EV, the battery, heat up the hot water, run the dishwasher, etc... at this time. Power between 4:00pm and 9:00pm (time of use) is very expensive, but I have a battery! Combine this with solar power on the roof (13.2kw) purchased a few years ago. My power bill is finally $0. We have gone from about $1,500 average a quarter to $0. All up it has cost about $16,500 (after all rebates). Worth it? for us, absolutely. If i didn't have an EV, payback may have taken much longer. Of note the battery was expensive, and this component only saves us about $4 to $5 a day on average - or about $1,460 to $1,825 a year (which is a pay off time of 3.8 to 4.7 years). We deplete our 13.6kw batter each night, but we use a lot of electricity. if you do not use a lot of electricity, it will take much longer for it to pay it way. We now even seem to be getting a return on our feed in tariff again - Which I have not added to the payback time, but is about $1 a day despite the poor weather we have been having since the install 2 weeks ago. Prior to the rebate, much higher feed in tariffs, and the lack of battery competition, it was not worth it. The math did not add up. Now, because of the increase in power costs, huge decrease in feed in tariffs, the rebate, and better deals to be had with batteries, Things have changed. For us, it was finally time to make the purchase.
@PyjamasBeforeChrist7 ай бұрын
Ends on the 8 May 24 unfortunately
@Alan.livingston7 ай бұрын
@@PyjamasBeforeChristhopefully they will run it again. We got our battery the last time they had a program. Subsidy plus interest free loan on the balance.
@joezephyr7 ай бұрын
Our home solar produces an average of 30Kwh per day over a year. Of that, 5Kwh is used in the house during daylight and 5Kwh goes into our solar battery. That leaves 20Kwh to sell. Instead of selling it, it is implied that we could charge an EV. We could if it sits at home all day. That 20Kwh takes 12 hours to produce. And a Hyundai Kona could drive 109 k! No, so you cannot charge a car from solar. An EV has to be charged overnight - from the mains.
@Alan.livingston7 ай бұрын
You know most people don’t use the full charge of their ev, so most days you are just topping it up. It’s going to be up and down and vary based on how much you drive. For example a mate of mine is a stay at home software engineer who drives his car locally on the weekends. He absolutely does maintain his vehicle from solar. On the other hand if you commute your vehicle daily then you are going to be hitting the mains.
@joezephyr7 ай бұрын
@@Alan.livingston Yes this is true, just as petrol cars do not need a full tank to drive. In my view an EV should always remain within range of home as that is the only place to charge. A weekend trip from Sydney to Canberra is risky as charging would be an issue.
@chriswozz6447 ай бұрын
I love your no-BS approach to this topic - well done mate
@RK.77967 ай бұрын
No! It does not worth it at all!
@KRM857 ай бұрын
Yeah but there is BS so that's a lie.
@GraemeLeRoux7 ай бұрын
A good video, however most of it was only applicable to single phase installations. If you have 3-phase power *and* the circuits in your house are split across all phases you can basically forget time of use tariffs because to take advantage of them as you describe you need an AC coupled battery and there are no integrated (like the Powerwall) AC coupled 3-phase batteries in Australia at present. In fact right now there are only two hybrid 3-phase inverters available in Australia. If you want to do a commercial scale system you can use multiple inverters tied together to make a 3-phase AC coupled system (SMA, Victron Energy for example) but for an SME or residential installation that’s not going to fly. I’d be very interested in seeing a video specifically on 3-phase systems in Australia. I think we will see more of them as EVs become more common and as more SMEs with 3-phase start thinking of EVs and battery installs.
@nepeansolarsolutions7 ай бұрын
If you have three-phase, consider DC coupled systems.
@GraemeLeRoux7 ай бұрын
@@nepeansolarsolutions I have a DC coupled system. Thing is neither of the hybrid inverters available here support charging the battery from the grid, only the PV input. You can use a DC coupled system to avoid high grid rates, but you can’t charge from the grid as per the video so if you have 3-phase and no/limited PV time of use rates are of no value. The thing to look for is low daily supply charges so your excess solar has the best chance of negating them.
@johnamann7 ай бұрын
@@GraemeLeRoux Are you sure about that? Looking at the Sungrow Hybrid 3-Phase inverter manual e.g. "8.10.9 BatteryForcedChargeTime ... The inverter will take charging power from the grid in the case of PV energy shortage."
@SolarQuotes7 ай бұрын
Incorrect. I have had a single phase battery on my three phase house for 6 years.
@SolarQuotes7 ай бұрын
The 3 phase meter nets out the dollars across all the phases: support.solarquotes.com.au/hc/en-us/articles/115001596554-How-does-a-single-phase-inverter-on-a-3-phase-supply-affect-my-self-consumption
@jaywalks99187 ай бұрын
No mention of sodium batteries?
@mjpt577 ай бұрын
Informative topic. However, I wish that the prices that I'm getting for batteries are as low as what you've quoted (rough guide, I know). Most recent quote for a 12kwh battery, increase my 4.5kw array to max of 10kw (that's all that I can fit on the roof) and the changeover tech required in blackouts, was over $20,000, For me, a retiree, that's a lot of dough and the payback time may or may not be around the 5.3 year mark. But $20k can pay for a hell of a lot of electricity over the next ten or so years, which by then, both battery and PV may be in its way out, just like me. For a young family, or even recent empty nesters (people under 50), it would be a solid investment, I guess.
@treefarm32886 ай бұрын
I live in far north Queensland and along with a number of friends,have had solar power since the '90s. We all have lead acid batteries, some secondhand, which last about six years. Some larger ones last much longer. Their price has increased about 60% in 33 years. It seems this video is aimed at very wealthy homeowners. The local dealer has confirmed that.
@davehad-enough23696 ай бұрын
Interesting video thanks. Yes my brother in law had one on the side of his house and it went up in flames. Not good. He's been told to put away from the house and spend the money to cable it back to the metre box.
@MrBenHaynes7 ай бұрын
We are with Amber electricity. 6.6kW solar and no battery. Amber very recently had massive prolonged price spikes which prompted many customers to leave in droves (including ourselves). They responded with "capping" the price during spikes to below that of the wholesale market price to keep customers onboard. I have decided to stay and see how it goes. Our house is fully electric but uses extremely low levels of energy (empty nesters and we rarely use space heating or cooling) so a home storage battery would have a long payback time.
@rogerpearson90817 ай бұрын
Their "market price" model means sometimes it is better to just switch off your house. I know some big industries that had these market price arrangements and sometimes they just shut down when the price went high. Good if you can do that but a bit fraught if you are a household.And when you figure in all the "energy saving " tech like batteries etc, is it worth it?
@Topreddd2 ай бұрын
For majority of households as of now, battery will never make sense. You're basically just prepaying your electricity bills of next few years when you buy a battery.
@xJI007 ай бұрын
The installation standard makes it look more like it’s designed to prevent households having batteries. Going by the standard, there is literal nowhere I can legally install one. I imagine it’s the case for many others. Was the standard drafted by the power industry by chance.
@anaesthetics7 ай бұрын
Do you live in a greenhouse or similar glass box?
@nepeansolarsolutions7 ай бұрын
It is rare that we cannot find a suitable location for a battery system to be installed, but also remember that they should never be installed in the direct sun due to the potential overheating.
@xJI007 ай бұрын
@@anaestheticsI’m in a 3 bedroom unit. One full side is the adjoining property. Every other side hasn’t got an area large enough to meet the distance from a window requirement. The ridiculous bollard requirement rules out the garage as it would make the garage unusable, it’s not big to start with.
@lunsmann7 ай бұрын
Safety standards exist for a reason - usually because someone died. My house has plenty of suitable locations. I will place my battery (when I eventually get one) in the same garage that my inverters are placed. Bollards won't be an issue because it's a double garage that is not used to house my car. Your specific situation is not indicative of the rest of ours.
@rexjamo7 ай бұрын
I love my Tesla Powerwall. One thing you don't seem to mention is software/app support for your system. The Tesla app for the Powerwall is fantastic and integrates with any Tesla cars you have. It will even direct any excess solar to your car. I've seen other brand solar apps and they're nowhere near as good.
@SolarQuotes7 ай бұрын
Agreed. It’s a big reason it wins best battery when we survey our 500 installers every year.
@boomcr73027 ай бұрын
In America, Insurance is much more expensive annually for homes with solar on the roof, because they have now included the cost of replacement. Another offset that will need to be estimated.
@BonitaLizzy29 күн бұрын
It does not snow in most parts in Australia. Solar panels last for 2 decades and perform well.
@jmx3185 ай бұрын
What about Hauwei?
@diycave51444 ай бұрын
Power wall 3 has just arrived in Australia. Can you do a review on this?
@robmurphy2627 ай бұрын
Hey, why dont you include Huawei batteries in your comparison charts? Did i make a mistake purchasing them?
@SolarQuotes7 ай бұрын
Huawei are good batteries, in Australia they are now branded as 'iStore', and supported by SolarGain - who will look after your Huawei batteries too.
@adriantaylor95357 ай бұрын
I personally don’t believe batteries are worth the initial cost and accrued interest on the investment, two years ago I installed a 10.5kw solar system no battery Gosford area, previously $150-200/ month on TOU and since installing solar and having the hot water changed to heat during the solar peak we average $50 a month rebate. I do have to keep an eye on the power companies as they are always fiddling with the rates. For me batteries are a waste of time and money, the concern of having my house burnt to the ground is also a big factor. PS I can’t see a small built in fire extinguisher putting out a 10kw battery fire, the problem is the battery chemistry makes its own fuel and oxygen.
@Design_no7 ай бұрын
Well said. Amazing how these climate change zealots are prepared to spend big and be out of pocket forever, whilst believing they are helping the planet.
@Tracertme7 ай бұрын
Fire brigade standard practice is move away smoother it in a fire blanket to stop it spreading and let it burn out because you can’t stop oxygen getting to batteries once they are on fire. Pretty risky if your no. 1 asset is involved and you’re retired with limited income to replace it. Insurance companies don’t cover much…❤
@michaelanderson377129 күн бұрын
it is not just the fuel and Oxygen, the extreme toxic smoke is also a major concern and firefighters need full HAZMAT suits as the toxic chemicals even on skin contact can kill. and a 10 kWh battery will burn for up to 14 hrs .
@stevealmond7460Ай бұрын
hello. I really like your website and your videos... well done. The battery needs to be outside, is it sensible to build a shelter around it to protect it from weather and heat? Is this a common approach? Any thoughts? Any links?
@merkel27502 ай бұрын
What would you say about free SLA batteries? I can get my hands on literal pallet loads of yuasa 100ah batteries, I just bought my first house and I want solar, I’ll be requesting an inverter that can support a battery bank, I planned to use the sla for my current Offgrid solar setup but had to vacate my rental, so would you say yeah or nah to free 2 year old SLA?
@aikz57 ай бұрын
$15000 for a 10kw battery installed, no thanks.
@therealjeffg3 ай бұрын
Thanks for all this info Finn. I like the idea of a battery on a time of use tariff, but we have 3 heat pumps, and it sounds like a battery may not be able to run the heat pumps during the expensive time of use tariff periods? Can you operate heat pumps as well has running the house lights and fridge freezer etc on a battery?
@mindwarp48187 ай бұрын
What about flow batteries in comparison?
@trevorevans71012 ай бұрын
I too have followed you for some time. Question: I don't understand why time of use and flat rate is much different because if your system (battery and pannels are working properly you will not be drawing much from the grid. ... please explain.
@SolarQuotes2 ай бұрын
@@trevorevans7101 good question. If you don’t draw much from the grid then your bills will be similar no matter what tariff you are on, (but your savings will be larger if you are on a ToU because most people with ToUs get bigger bills without batteries). However lots of folks still pull lots from the grid even with a battery especially if they have an EV or two or long cold winters. These folks can charge their batteries cheaply from the grid during the day and late at night cheaply on the right ToU tariff.
@seb_gibbs7 ай бұрын
I got a Powerwall II a few years ago, been working well. Financially, solar panels have a much better ROI, the Powerwall will take a few more years to pay for itself. If your looking to save money on electric bills, I recommend getting as many solar panels you are able to afford, as no matter where you are in Australia, its a sound investment financially, but I wouldnt recommend a battery if your only interested in saving money, as it might take over 10 years for ROI. However, if you also really like the idea of not depending on the grid, or you are having constant issues with grid, then home battery is what you need. I personally recommend the Tesla battery, only because I've heard so many problems about other brands.
@J1mmyWA7 ай бұрын
Great and very detailed video. Thank you. I like that you mention the use of a bollard in the garage - something that meant a battery wouldn't fit in mine. The problem with using the integrated solar battery for power when the mains is unavailable is that the battery may have already dishcarged from daily use. I was quoted with having the battery provide power to one circuit only for critical devices such as my fridge and freezer. I was also told that once the battery was discharged fully, it wouldn't recharge from the solar until mains power resumed, which meant best case, it would only provide backup power for half a day. I ended up buying a camping battery for $2k which means I always have a 2kw battery on standby that can power my fridges for 12 hours. I bought some portable solar panels and can charge up the battery during the day in case of a prolonged outage. This means all my rooftop solar goes to covering my normal daily usage - and charging my backup battery. So far I've used the battery twice during blackouts and it enabled me to not only keep the fridges going, but using a powerboard I was able to watch dvds on my tv (no internet during power blackouts) and cook my dinner. If I wish I can also use the battery during high power cost periods to reduce my bill (although I would have to do this daily, and would risk not having backup power if I did this). I am on a time usage power plan, and until battery prices are halved and aren't a fire risk, I cannot see any advantage in buying one.
@reneperin87427 ай бұрын
Can you tell me if I buy another house in South Australia with solar and no battery, If I add a battery to that will I have to join the flexible exports plan and when I changeover his ownership to me will I have to have the flexible exports plan as well thank you in advance
@AnthonyHortin7 ай бұрын
Lots of really useful info in here. Thanks 🙏
@RK.77967 ай бұрын
No! It does not worth it at all!
@jedics17 ай бұрын
I built and installed my own 2kw solar/9kw lfp system for 7 grand 4 years ago with zero previous experience, I'd highly recommend it to anyone who can't justify the expense and payback time of bought systems because with sensible use under the right circumstances you could eliminate your power bill entirely creating a realistic payback time. If your fairly handy and motivated and not afraid of side stepping some regulation most people can do it with all the information online and the videos people make explaining everything so well. It is a no brainer when the alternative is getting bent over by our corporate overlords for the rest of your life.
@simonr237 ай бұрын
i have a 5.5kw north facing solar system and 10kwh battery in south australia (lots of sun). my bill is no where near eliminated, but it is reduced a great amount. in summer months i only pay the supply charge (sometimes less than that), and in winter i save about 20% via solar, and another 20% thanks to selective grid charging of my batteries - for peak hours usage.
@jedics17 ай бұрын
@@simonr23 Obviously how efficient your house is, is a big factor and how many people live there and how motivated they are to use power efficiently.
@simonr237 ай бұрын
@@jedics1 6 star house and modern, efficient electronics throughout. Intelligent power use to work within the constraints of variable tariff pricing each day. A lot of automation.
@jedics17 ай бұрын
@@simonr23 Something is using a lot of power or a little power all the time for our experiences to be so different. My whole place is 2.5 by 7 meters though, which is probably less than 1/4 your whole house.
@michaeljoncour49037 ай бұрын
yes sidestepping is important i have probably saved 100,000 dollars.
@ellWayify6 ай бұрын
Can you explain why the payback period is better if you switch to TOU tariff? If you are using a battery that is fully utilised wouldn't you not be using any electricity from the grid anyway if you had solar?
@Kiwigeo83396 ай бұрын
A battery allows you to store power either from your PV system or from the grid at lowest tarrif...and use that power later in the day when peak TOU tariffs apply and PV is not producing. My battery charges from PV during the day or on a grey day from grid between 1000 and 1500hrs when power is at its cheapest. After 1500 the house is either running PV or the battery.
@ellWayify6 ай бұрын
@@Kiwigeo8339 Thanks. Yeah I thought that might be the case. It's to get the cheapest power from the grid. That said even on single rate plans such as OVO give you free power during the day from 11am - 2PM and also $0.08/kWh from 12am to 6am. Surely that combined with solar would be enough without TOU
@sandman01237 ай бұрын
This is a very good explanation and review of the available technologies and not leaving out the traps and limitations. Covering all angles. 👍👍👍
@Xubono7 ай бұрын
Watch out for rebate offers. I bought my Telsla 2 Powerwall as soon as the $750 rebate was offered. 7 months later and no sign of any rebate. Queries go to their Las Vegas offices, where they lament the immense lack of staff assigned to process rebates.
@SolarQuotes7 ай бұрын
you bought in Australia and they send you to their Vegas office?
@Xubono7 ай бұрын
@@SolarQuotesIndirectly, yes. All rebate queries are directed to only email contact with PowerwallNA at tesla.
@Waiting-4-Godot7 ай бұрын
Sorry to hear that. Is your installer involved? Ours agreed to pay the rebate themselves if there was a problem with Tesla. Which there was not, rebate in the bank in 3 weeks.
@Xubono7 ай бұрын
@SolarQuotes My apologies if I am repeating myself - my earlier replies haven’t appeared. The Australian Tesla support phone staff direct all rebate queries to e-mail PowerwallSupportNA at Tesla. This is where everything gets lost. @Waiting-4-Godot While the installer has been supportive and also contacted various Tesla account and management staff, they have not offered to make this payment - nor would I expect them to at this stage. I am certainly never buying any other Tesla product in future. [edit: correction to Tesla e-mail address above: PowerwallSupportNA]
@jezhopo72217 ай бұрын
I got my rebate within a week or so
@nigelhsenior7 ай бұрын
Question please. Does you 5+ payback period with split tarrifs assume Solar PV ir not ?
@MrPhillian7 ай бұрын
I do think it’s worth clarifying that with a time of use plan, it still doesn’t always come out beneficial for a battery. I’m in the ACT and the price of peak times is still relatively low at 33c kWh, compared to a 10c export tariff. With my current 8kw panels, for much of the year I’m only drawing 3-5 kwhs from the grid per day. The battery savings from that just don’t exist…yet. Should the peak prices hit 50c or so per kWh, like they have in various other states, then the value proposition dramatically improves. My annual electricity bill is around $400 per year currently, and I’ve modelled a battery (of various sizes) with my usage data over the last few years. The best a battery can do is save about $200-$300 per year. Therefore never paying itself off (at least with the current prices). I haven’t looked at modelling some of those alternative plans you mentioned, so maybe it could be worth it there.
@SolarQuotes7 ай бұрын
Good point. ACT has phenomenally good grid tariffs compared to the rest of Australia.
@madmax14122 ай бұрын
Is there a cost saving for install if you have micro inverters rather than a single inverter unit?
@SolarQuotes2 ай бұрын
@@madmax1412 nope. Same install. Same cost
@madmax14122 ай бұрын
@@SolarQuotes Thank you. I just saw your Short about the NSW rebate starting November 1st, so I better do some research. Current solar is using the Enlighten app, so need to figure out if I'm stuck with them as a battery supplier/installer or if a 3rd company can integrate to it. As you said in your video, it's not as simple as buying a pack of AAAs.
@davetrendell88417 ай бұрын
Thoughts on the new Anker Solix X1 batteries? Are they available in Australia yet? Trying to find pricing on them is like trying to find a needle in a haystack
@lazygit54154 ай бұрын
Did you find the needle yet?
@kenbarraclough34287 ай бұрын
Are you using a Tesla powerwall 2 in you calculations this has a separate inverter, install price will be reduced if you quote on a powerwall 3
@Kiwigeo83396 ай бұрын
Powerwall 3 not yet available in Australia
@Ruslan-S7 ай бұрын
Great video and website! Would be cool if your battery comparison table included Blackout protection (Battery backup) as a separate feature row instead of being in Pros and Cons.
@paulbrodie69296 ай бұрын
Great video, good explanation, you mentioned DYI batteries briefly, do you think this will change going forward. I am an electrical engineer and don't see why I can't build my own battery system, I would value your view on this.
@Grant-wg5hr6 ай бұрын
Very informative video, thank you. I've recently had 3 quotes from reputable companies (all in your gold & platinum awards) using reputable equipment (all in your gold & silver awards) but 2 of the 3 installers want to use a breaker switch & have you manually switch over the power to the batteries & back again if there is a black out. This seams counterintuitive if it can be carried out automatically by the solar system. What are your thoughts?
@banksiasong7 ай бұрын
Disturbing to read in SMH that AusGrid intend to penalise people who generate excess solar energy during day UNLESS they have installed a battery. In WA, we have two (govt) Big Batteries to soak up excess daily solar to put back into the grid in the busy evening period. I hope AusGrid's dodgy policy will not deter people from installing Solar in the first instance. I would love to get a battery, but a bit out of my range at the moment, but having solar panels has been such a great experience. Your videos have helped, thanks Finn.
@paulc35926 ай бұрын
What a legend, very informative lots of information there to consider.
@marktsang69287 ай бұрын
How do you think things like the HOEM device to run selected home circuits from your EV V2L or V2G (when it lands) will affect the viability of home batteries? Granted, the EV must be at home for this to work. Where considerable capital is spent on a large battery on wheels it seems like home owners will want to make the most of that investment.
@SolarQuotes7 ай бұрын
Hoem is very limited. When cheap V2G inverters appear this will take off.
@otavioneto59717 ай бұрын
can a battery (and possibly also the inverter as well) be installed in the roof space / attic? (steel frame roof vs timber roof)
@Android8117 ай бұрын
No Idea, but I doubt it. You want to keep the battery as cool as possible.
@ClipsByMiles7 ай бұрын
Almost certainly not - I can’t see any way it would meet the installation standards
@whophd5 ай бұрын
Why did you say Amber is risky with a battery? As long as it's compatible with SmartShift, this looks after the prices for you. Now what *I'm* doing is going for manual time-based control and crafting my own schedule - that's dangerous, baby! But it smooths the brownouts in my experience, and I can encourage the discharge cycles up from 0.5 to 1 daily and force more feed-in earnings, or down from 2 to 1 and save some battery cycles.
@grahamsmith74077 ай бұрын
Hi Finn, I have a 6.65kw solar system inc.14 panels on the roof, with a Goodwe inverter. I have been told about fitting a 7.68kw Jinko battery to our system, as we have Jinko panels on the roof. Do you have any thoughts on this battery and fitment please?
@timefthymiou9927 ай бұрын
Ill jump in and answer this question with over 8 years experience in using and optimising my solar / batteries system. Now, the question is, how many kilowatts do you use on a daily basis??, (usually your energy supplier will have this on your bill), do you have off peak hot water or is it gas?? If you want to have a battery installed, you have to change your inverter to a "hybrid" solar inverter, so the inverter, (the brains of the system), knows when to charge the battery / discharge etc. So, whatever the cost of the battery, you have the added cost of a new hybrid inverter. A good hybrid inverter (with a 10 year warranty) is LGES-5048 SOLAR HYBRID INVERTER. This cost (wholesale price $1,850), retail around $2,500-$3,000, then you need a battery and installation. you could get an LG RESU10 10kWh LV 48V LiFePO4 for around $7k. so a new inverter, battery and installation, your looking at around $10k-$10.5k for a 10 kw battery/inverter/installation. Smaller battery, cheaper price. Also the most important factor is the energy plan your on. If your hws is run on electricity, the you should also have off peak power or dedicated circuit to heat up the hws, BUT, you could also put a switch, near your hws, so your have the option to run it on "continuous" power during a sunny day, so when your battery is full, you flip the hws switch and whalla, your hws is being heated up by your solar system. if there is going to be cloudy days, heat up your hws during the night on dedicated circuit, Also on cloudy day, you could have your batteries charged during the night to have power during the day/evening from your battery and not get charged ridiculous "peak rate", Any questions feel free to ask.
@gary63616 ай бұрын
At last! An Australian specific video for solar batteries! So helpful, many thanks.
@poochey17 ай бұрын
Could we have a shorter video to back this one up explaining the pros and cons of buying solar vs solar + battery at the same time up front?
@wazza33racer7 ай бұрын
Ive seen what installers do, to mitigate the fire risks from Lithium storage.......its a 6mm thick piece of fiber cement, that only provides some shield to a homes wall from the rear of the battery. The rest of the battery is free to discharge flames and set the wall on fire anyway.
@roscored10007 ай бұрын
how is this different if you decide to go off grid in the CBD for example, I use about 5kw a day approx, and have a small 2.3kw solar system getting the premium feed in tariff which will run out this year. So why not get a battery and upgrade the solar and go off grid?
@SolarQuotes7 ай бұрын
With such small usage that is possible. But bear in mind that - without the grid reliability is everything and you need a backup. This starts to get expensive compared to a grid connect system.
@PatrickGuerrisi7 ай бұрын
Battery prices are still going down right?
@SolarQuotes7 ай бұрын
Yes. Battery cell prices are, but takes some time for this to flow through to the packaged home batteries.
@cerbrain7 ай бұрын
Excellent explanation.
@SolarQuotes7 ай бұрын
Glad it was helpful!
@RK.77967 ай бұрын
No! It does not worth it at all!
@walters20237 ай бұрын
Hi Finn, thank you for your great video's my question is, over the last 6 month my solar export 6187kwh getting $0.06 NSW for it and my usage was 4286kwh for the 6 months, Im paying $0.34 for anytime usage price. Correct me if I'm wrong, i will be better of with 16kw battery.? Thank you for your time and help.
@SolarQuotes7 ай бұрын
You’ll save 28c (34-6) per kWh of solar used from your battery. That’s about $1600 per year. That assumes you charge and drain the entire battery every night and it does not degrade over time. So you’ll likely save closer to $1200 per year in reality.
@walters20237 ай бұрын
@@SolarQuotes Thank you for replaying, do you think i should get Sungrow 10kW 3P Hybrid Inverter, with Sungrow 16kWh Battery, or Fronius SYMO GEN24 plus 10kw Hybrid inverter with BYD Battery Premium HVM 16.6 kwh. I'm very curious about your opinion. Thank you in Advance
@kevanbygate94857 ай бұрын
I am in NZ and have free power from 9 till 12 have no solar would a battery be a good idea?
@ClipsByMiles7 ай бұрын
I mean, that sounds like a no-brainer..
@rivergladesgardenrailroad88346 ай бұрын
Alpha Smile5 is very good, BUT can only run 3 circuits, when Grid is down, where as POWERWALL runs the whole house, [except high load heat banks on 'night tarriff]. also PowerWall can be switched off from Grid. BUT the Alpha is 5k cheaper.....
@JohnMorrish7 ай бұрын
Ok so Telsa Battery supply and instal (your number = $15K. Maximum deployable power = 10kW/day. @$0.42/kW that is (at best $4.20 per day.) less the $0.05 that you would have got from a feed in tarrif that makes it 10 x (0.42-0.06) = $3.60 per day. $15000/3.6= 4166 days or 11.41 years. So in just under 12 years you can get your $15K back, no profit, no savings and the battery is out of warranty. However............if you had invested the $15K in a term deposit @ 4%p.a. compounded, for that 12 years, you would have $24K. He just made over $9K from you.
@cottawalla7 ай бұрын
I live in the NSW southern tablelands and after doing an extremely detailed modelling of my own proposed solar plus battery system (much more detailed than the SolarQuotes calculator and using actual hour by hour usage data over a full year), the best average annual return I could get was about 6% after twenty years and all of that came well towards the end. That return could easily be wiped out by increased insurance premiums, a malfunction that required repairs, or even scheduled maintenance and inspections. No combination made a positive return for the first ten years. Even that small return is very optimistic, being dependent on the price of batteries dropping drastically over the period. That is, building up the battery capacity through the period as prices dropped because buying it all up front was a guaranteed loss even over twenty years (replacing batteries and other components as they reached EOL).
@SolarQuotes7 ай бұрын
Yes - that’s a standard tariff so as the video says the payback is Meh. On a ToU payback is higher because peak is higher and you can charge cheaply at night for the morning peak. So for high energy users in ToU payback can be twice as good.
@failureisnotoptional9296 ай бұрын
Working out the payback period is tricky, even without considering your opportunity cost and battery life. For a given battery capacity and solar array capacity firstly the array has to have enough excess capacity to fully charge the battery, if not you’re wasting capacity. Then take into account how many cloudy days you want to cover. Then work out for what periods your battery is fully charged and the solar can export to earn extra payback. Then calculate how much it is saving you for each time of day tariff. I ended up downloading 2 years of half hourly data from AGL for my house and making a large spreadsheet which could determine the system situation every half hour. A few years back I felt that battery prices would have to half to make it worthwhile (for me I want payback time to be less than warranty period and with an opportunity cost on my money of 8% (which is long term share market returns)). It will be different now that prices are higher and feed in tariffs are lower, I plan to re-run it.
@michaelanderson37717 ай бұрын
In Melbourne over the months from April to September my 9.4 kWh system generates less than 13 kWh of power leaving less than 6kWh over my daytime consumption. I would never charge the battery fully over 6 month period. So to top up would need to come from grid. And the Victorian time of use rates are still way too high. And there is still the retailers supply fee of $1.08 per day so you will always have a bill of some kind and in Victoria the feed in tariff is $0.054c per kWh. So you need to generate anout 60 megawatt hours just to cover that supply bill. Battery payback longer than 10 years based of my generation profile from 12 months of 2023. I dont have the roof space to add more than say 3 kWh of added pannels and then the ugly appearance affecting the street view of my home. Fin's fact sheet is realy helpful but you need all the data to assess. That ssems the only weakness in the decision making process.
@CoolCalmGrateful29 күн бұрын
I think GloBird in Vic provide for 3 hours of fee electricity which could be used to charge the batter?
@powerinnumbers61597 ай бұрын
I dont get why TOU plans decrease the payback, would you care to explain
@mabamabam7 ай бұрын
Yeah that puzzled me a little. Are they assuming you save on buying the extremely expensive peak rate electricity? Which doesnt make sense, because if you needed power at that time you wouldn't choose a TOU tariff. Or are they assuming you charge the battery on the cheap off peak? But havent you already bought the massive solar array before you bought the battery? So that assumption doesnt make sense either.
@hags5687 ай бұрын
Flat tariffs are say 25c all day. Let's say TOU is 17c during the days and 35c from 3pm to 9pm. It's the evening spike when you use most energy and where you have a full battery, ideally charged by solar but if there isn't enough you top up the battery at 17c and then use it during the evening peak.
@cottawalla7 ай бұрын
@@hags568those were the cheapest rates about 12 to 18 months ago. You can add at least 10c to each of those today.
@SolarQuotes7 ай бұрын
Good feedback - thank you. We'll explain this better next time. Generally it's not worth choosing to be on a ToU if you are currently on a good standard rate - but many people are being forced onto ToU tariffs, and this is where batteries can start to make sense financially.
@SolarQuotes7 ай бұрын
more details here: www.solarquotes.com.au/battery-storage/payback/
@chris200019654 ай бұрын
Looking forward to a Tesla Powerwall 3 review now they are available in Australia!
@valentinermakov1187 сағат бұрын
My home in Sydney, located in a shady area, uses 12,712.4 kWh of electricity annually. Thanks to my solar and Powerwall system instaled in March 2024, I’ve reduced my grid reliance to just 6,073.3 kWh. Despite having no summer data included yet, my solar has already generated 7,094.5 kWh this year, with the battery storing 3,296.8 kWh for later use. Based on my calculations, the entire system will pay for itself in just 5 years.
@mightydrew19707 ай бұрын
I have this concept for my home solar + battery system, that, combined with an all electric car I could save on "fuel" as well - is that the case? Is this commonly done? Does it work or is there some "gotcha" that means you can't charge an electric car from your solar/battery system? Keen to know as I'm sure it's one of those things I'd be promised, but will evaporate when an electrician comes along and says "nope, that won't work because of X...."
@SolarQuotes7 ай бұрын
You can charge your car from a home battery - no problem - but most people charge their cars either direct from solar, where possible or overnight on a cheap grid tariff. The problem is the car battery is typically 60-70 kWh and one home battery is 10-13kWh, so easy to drain your home battery leaving it empty for the evening peak.
@chrisperera28187 ай бұрын
Didn’t see Sonnen on your trusted brand list?
@SolarQuotes7 ай бұрын
That’s deliberate
@chrisperera28187 ай бұрын
@@SolarQuotes why is that. Extremely curious to know
@Kiwigeo83396 ай бұрын
@@chrisperera2818 Sonnens support in Australia has degraded significantly. I don't think they have a contact phone number any longer...you have to send them an email and hope someone replies.
@RyanCowan7 ай бұрын
The Braveheart VPP analogy was great 😂
@SolarQuotes7 ай бұрын
Thanks, Ryan. Love your work!
@RyanCowan7 ай бұрын
@@SolarQuotes likewise ! 🥰
@johnhope73597 ай бұрын
I'm on a time of use tariff and payback would be in the 10-11 year range, so I think the 6 years you are portraying is very unlikely. BTW what size system are you using to get the 6 year payback. In winter you get very little solar to charge your battery (in southern Australia states). So what cost to get the super sized solar panel array to be able to fully charge a Tesla each day. I like your video but just think there is a lot you aren't saying for real payback.
@boonhowemoh98076 ай бұрын
Thus charging battery from the grid during super off peak TOU rates, so that you are using battery power during evening peak hours ;)
@TheAtt227 ай бұрын
excellent information ... thank you.
@RK.77967 ай бұрын
No! It does not worth it at all!
@TheAtt227 ай бұрын
@@RK.7796 why do you say that?
@gozbil6 ай бұрын
What’s needed for total off grid, I’m paying $1800 per quarter on electricity
@wavesnowaves7 ай бұрын
As more people purchase EVs, we have 40-80KW batteries on wheels. Use it to power your home when you’re not driving and the sun is down. Charge it via solar when you can.
@johnpej1227 ай бұрын
That would be perfect. If only the electricity suppliers would allow it. It seems there is only one vineyard in SA. which has faught to do this. Everyone should get together and fight for the right to use or ev's for this
@sarcasmo575 ай бұрын
I want to do my part to solve the energy problem in this country. There should be more incentives to store energy.
@livinagoodlife7 ай бұрын
Wait.. by the time you’ve made the savings, you’ll need a new battery.. right?
@knoxtan3257 ай бұрын
Are there other brands to choose from? Why just Tesla
@MarkStevens-xi8ih7 ай бұрын
I remember being told by SolarEdge that their battery doesn't have a built-in fire-extinguisher anymore. The iStore Battery does though.
@SolarQuotes7 ай бұрын
Interesting - just checked the SE battery's latest data sheet and it lists the fire extinguisher as 'optional'.
@peterjohnston81167 ай бұрын
A family member recently installed a Tesla battery to an existing pv solar panel system. The cost was $16,000.
@Kiwigeo83397 ай бұрын
If there wasn't any extra work involved in the installation (eg major switchboard modifications) then it sounds like the installer ripped them off.
@ZisWile6 ай бұрын
@@Kiwigeo8339 I was quoted 18 k in perth on a tesla powerwall 2, another of Solar quotes recommended shonks.
@rmar1277 ай бұрын
Sodium ion batteries come close. Not quite as energy dense. However they are cheaper to make and a larger capacity battery can be had for a similar cost.
@SolarQuotes7 ай бұрын
Can you point us to any commercially available and approved for grid-connection in Australia?
@nickelsey98647 ай бұрын
This was great, thank you.
@RK.77967 ай бұрын
No! It does not worth it at all!
@TommyBraas6 ай бұрын
What about lithium sulphur batteries? They solved the manufacturing challenges in 2022. Surely we would be seeing some soon?!
@movingloz7 ай бұрын
Seriously awesome video. Thanks. 🙏.
@davidtydeman14347 ай бұрын
Can someone explain to me why a 10kwh battery costs at least $10k while I can buy a BYD Atto3 with a 60 kwh battery for $50k? This implies the rest of the car is worth a negative number?????
@SolarQuotes7 ай бұрын
A home battery works harder. It can be fully charged and drained more than once per day. So there’s higher warranty liability. Also the packaging and onboard electronics are expensive. Then there’s the customer support and complex app and API to maintain. As the market gets more mature prices should come down.
@stephangray75305 ай бұрын
If the average battery lasts about 7 years and it takes 7 years to pay it off, what's the point. I've got 28 panels on my roof but no battery. My wife uses heaps of electricity as she has a medical condition requiring heaters running all the time. My NSW electricity bill in winter is about $800 per month and I'm getting virtually nothing back from my supplier from the panels. I'm fortunate in that I can afford these bills but as I'm already 83, I wonder if it was all worth it having my solar panels installed 5 years ago. Bummer.
@jezhopo72217 ай бұрын
I used solar quotes. Great system. My battery will payback in less than 3 years for a big house in Sydney. Tesla app is really good.
@Kiwigeo83396 ай бұрын
That 3 year payback period on your battery sounds sus'. Ive got a Powerwall 2 and a 14.4kW PV system. Pay back period on the battery works out at around 8-1/2 years.
@dastankuspaev92175 ай бұрын
i think it's better to buy ev with vehicle to load function unless you live in an area where blackouts are often
@bobelton94867 ай бұрын
You say diy is a no go in Australia intimating that it is illegal or some such thing. This might be a bit misleading as it is not the case. Quality diy builds are being done all the time with quality cells and bms etc. diy is less than half price
@SolarQuotes7 ай бұрын
Not grid connected.
@jaredscott48297 ай бұрын
Swapping to a TOU doesn't actually improve the breakeven time. Its only reducing it because the relative cost of the TOU is higher than a flat rate tariff. Its not an apples to apples comparison.
@rogerpearson90817 ай бұрын
Great idea in theory but in my case I average about $60 a month in grid use vs a Tesla Powerwall "from $247 a month for 60 months" Not working for me! Spending big to save little. I have gone for a second South facing 6.6 kW system so my total cost for both systems is $11k which should have a payback of 7- 8 years and still have a couple of years before I have to worry about replacing inverters etc. vs the vague lifetime of a battery. Virtual batteries mean the utility gets to flog your battery like a renter in a sports car and when you need it there is nothing left for you. Also avoids the lovely pyrotechnic proclivities of the Lithium Ion batteries bolted to your house or even in the garage. I would be happy with a flow battery solution but companies like Redflow seems more focused on larger scale solutions unfortunately despite them doinf some home systems previously. Good idea but not there yet IMHO
@mattx42537 ай бұрын
With an electric bill of £80 a month. Sinking 20 grand in to a solar and battery system seems like financial suicide. Take that 20k and buy stocks and get free electricity on the returns plus keep the investment. Prices need to come way down as this is not economical in any sense.
@Drakkanna695 ай бұрын
9:39 Battery systems with already installed automatic fire extinguisher 10:08 sounds... scary and safer then those with none.
@kfcc667 ай бұрын
Great and informative video
@andrewdunlop57716 ай бұрын
Do the math, by the time you get your money back, you need to replace the system
@kamakaziozzie303818 күн бұрын
It depends on your cost per KWh. Here’s my personal experience. My utility charges some of the highest rates in the USA, we average .45/KWh. Our monthly electric bill before solar with battery backup was averaging $320 per month. Our system with rebate was $18K all in. In the two years after installing a Tesla Powerwall + system the only payment we have made to the electric utility has been the $10/month connection fee. It will be a total of five years to break even. After that it’s “free” power. Our system has a 10 year warranty on battery, 20 years on the PV array.
@gardnep2 ай бұрын
600mm away from windows was common for most electrical installations, so no problem there.
@cyclonicleo7 ай бұрын
If I had my way, all new estates would have community batteries, with all houses mandated to have a battery/solar install subsidised by the developer. All excess power goes to the community battery which can then top up home batteries and serve the larger grid or the local area in the event of emergencies.
@turbostyler7 ай бұрын
YES! I've been saying this for ages!
@paulmatich89857 ай бұрын
In the USA you can rent them but not in out corporate first Australian
@j01HUNTER2 ай бұрын
Tesla package now cost 33k by most sellers idk where you get 15k from
@SolarQuotes2 ай бұрын
no-one should be paying 33k for a single powerwall 2 installed in Australia, it's $15-16k (I get that from the hundreds of installers we deal with daily)
@j01HUNTER2 ай бұрын
@@SolarQuotes that's soloar packages including most who gets them don't have soloar too like myself
@Drakkanna695 ай бұрын
8:11 Crazy facts to watch out for.
@petertimp54167 ай бұрын
IMHO…. initially solar was great, my bills went from over $450 down to $50 until the power companies Reduce your feedin tariffs now I’m paying about what I paid before I had solar!?!?batteries Don’t last long So you have to buy new ones before you’ve even paid off the initial ones. 😮😢
@69memnon697 ай бұрын
When we all have batteries, they’ll just boost the daily supply charge even more. About half of my current bill is just supply charges.
@CT-vm4gf7 ай бұрын
My yearly electricity cost has halved since installing panels 4 years ago. Simply because I don’t pay for electricity when the sun is up. Definitely worth it in Perth, even if cost is your only consideration.
@guyb79957 ай бұрын
NO, do the math, the return on investment is like 17 years on a PW. You can only save the difference of about 10kwh per day (don't food yourself you will get the 12.5 of a PW over its life, 3 years on, I get 10.5 at most, consider this, it is May in Melb, by PW has been flat since about 9pm, 13.5kw cells on 10kw inverters). 10.5kw at the difference between your usage cost - your feed in tariff. Maybe 16c/kwh. Here in Melb, thats $1.60 a day saved (if you are paying more, you need to shop around a lot more!). Divide $10,000 by 1.6 = 6250 days to break even. Divide by 365 = 17.12 years. By a battery for the protection of power outages, NOT for the financial benefit. I compared all those time of use plans, they still don't work out. They charge so much in peak periods when your battery still can't provide cover like early morning you get burnt. As for VPPs, Tesla quoted over 30c/kwh usage to sign into their VPP. What the actual F?
@SolarQuotes7 ай бұрын
Correct as we have always said battery payback can be terrible or it can be reasonable depending on your circumstances. Not everyone lives in Melbourne. Hard to fathom for many Melburnians I know. But I promise it’s true.
@guyb79957 ай бұрын
@@SolarQuotes But my math above is actually for anywhere you get sun all day, generally you only get to discharge your battery once a day. That's why my math is still really best case in most cases. I know in Melbs I get less sun than say QLD, but my PW was still fully charged today by 2pm, its not all rain and clouds down here either. The more the difference between FIT & rates increases, the lower the ROI, term but its all still far beyond smart. Don't forget that $10K (what I paid with rebates) now is more like $12-15K in 10 years time, $15k upfront is crazy expensive and will be like $18-20K in 10 years money so inflation on your purchase price makes ROI even longer. Batteries need to be 3x the capacity and 1/3 the cost. When it gets there it will be a no brainer. 20kw and $7K is still a maybe. The best option for those who's cars are at home is if we can just use our cars battery. That's a 70kwh battery just sitting there. It won't suite everyone, but it would suite a lot of people, especially with so much work from home going on now.