Buying One Set of Classic XC Skis for Groomed and Off-Track Skiing

[@roberterickson4736]

Are metal edges necessary? Thanks for the videos!

[@JaredManninen]

Thanks for the question, Robert Erickson! Eventually I'll cover the topic of metal edged cross-country skis in more detail, but for now I hope this short answer will suffice... For groomed terrain, I don't recommend metal edged xc skis. They're overkill. Traditional track skis (w/o metal edges) are perfect for groomed terrain. That said, if you only own one pair of skis and they have metal edges, it's fine to use them on groomed terrain. The only thing a metal edged xc ski will do for you at a groomed xc ski resort is slow you down (for better or worse). Again, this may sound appealing to some people. However, my recommendation is to just learn how to use those track skis (stopping and downhill turning) the way they were designed (w/o metal edges). For off-trail use, however, I find that metal edges add durability to the skis and enable me to control the skis a little easier (especially in variable conditions). The metal edges can handle the abuse found in a backcountry environment with variable snow conditions far better than one without metal edges. And, most of the metal edged xc skis are going to be wider and shorter adding to the increased control factor. There are tons of "touring" skis out there that are designed for off-trail use but don't have metal edges. These are fine for basic xc skiing across meadows and stuff, but they're usually not very wide and they're often pretty straight. Personally, I don't have much use for those because I do live in the mountains and there are always (relatively) steeper angles of terrain to deal with. That said, one of those non-metal edge touring type of cross-country skis would probably be fine for the type of skiing I was doing in the video (i.e. across a frozen lake). But, again, you saw me struggle with those more narrow (62mm) off-track skis even in that little amount of snow. And that's a similar width to many non-metal edged touring skis. Anyway, hope that helps! Let me know if you have any other questions :)

[@roberterickson4736]

@@JaredManninen Thanks Jared! I have skis for groomed trails. I am asking more for non- groomed trails. We moved to an area where groomed tracks are about an hour away and I am having to learn more about non groomed track skiing. I am using 65 wide skis which are okay but am considering maybe 80 wide. Thoughts?

[@JaredManninen]

@@roberterickson4736 Gotcha! Yeah, something in the range of 80mm or larger would definitely be more versatile for off-track. Again, 60-70mm skis are fine when the snowpack is set and stable (i.e. uniform surface), or there's just a little bit of snow on the bare ground. But in more variable conditions with fresh snow, you'd be better served with a 80+mm off-track/backcountry ski. The 62mm that I was using in the video also happen to be my off-track rock skis. I use those mostly for the conditions stated above. But when there's enough snow and we're in the middle of winter where the conditions are often variable, I'll pull out my 88s or 112s. And even though the 112s were pretty big for the slight amount of snow (in the video), you could see that I was moving pretty swiftly. So even though they could be considered excessive for the conditions, they worked fine. The last note I'd like to point out about the really wide off-track/backcountry xc skis is that I'm not a fan of running them on really firm/icy flats. It's more challenging to edge them when trying to just maintain a straight line in firm conditions. That's the main reason I discourage people from bringing them to groomed resorts. They'll have to run them in the skate lane, which is going to be flat and firm and to get those big skis to track straight (without a little soft snow to keep them from skidding around) is difficult. Novice xc skiers assume that with a significantly wider ski they'll be more stable on the groomed terrain. I would argue that it's just the opposite because of the challenges inherent with manipulating the edges of wide xc skis on firm terrain. This is also why I'll often opt to ski on the side of a hard-packed backcountry trail with wide skis (instead of down the middle of it) -- the snow might be softer and enable me to track straighter.

[@roberterickson4736]

@@JaredManninen great advice. Many thanks!

[@JaredManninen]

@@roberterickson4736 You're welcome :)

[@stevemartin5448]

Hi. If you’re skiing cabin to cabin, you have no choice but to choose one pair of skis. Over in Europe, almost invariably we choose around 57mm width under foot (eg. Fischer E99) These can cope with any tracks you come across and most snow conditions.

[@JaredManninen]

Hey Steve, Thanks for the feedback, and for contributing to the conversation 🤗 At some point I'll probably produce a follow-up video with additional considerations. You bring up a great point about the hut/cabin systems of Europe, which we don't have here in the states. At least nothing nearly as comprehensive, anyway. Of course you'd only use one set of skis in that situation. You're pack would probably already be loaded down. Ha Ha. The E-99s would be an ideal ski for that style of touring. Here, in the Sierra Nevada (where I live and xc ski), it would be a bit more challenging to only have one set of skis. We're in mountainous terrain with dense forests, so running a longer ski without any sidecut (like the E-99) in the backcountry presents a lot of challenges for the average skier. It's true that Snowshoe Thompson (historical Norwegian person who lived in the Tahoe region back in the 1800s) ran his 20 foot long skis back and forth across the Sierra. But he was the exception, not the rule. And back when he was alive, there were about 40 trees per acre of land whereas today it's closer to 220 trees. And we can, and do, receive multiple feet of snow within a short timeframe throughout the winter. In fact, for the month of December Donner Pass received a record 16 feet of snow. Long story, short ... for backcountry xc touring I find a shorter and wider ski (like Fischer's S-Bound series) is more appropriate here in the Sierra Nevada. However, I understand that the conditions in which I ski are not necessarily the same as everywhere else. Anyway, I appreciate your input! Thanks again for watching 👍

[@JaredManninen]

@@redgreen7021 Very cool! At some point I do want to pick up a set of them. Although I think they're now called the Transnordic 66.

[@rahulrane1658]

Jared. I would like to take this opportunity to say thanks to you from Alberta (Canada) for making these videos. Not only is your knowledge good, but the way you present it is too, along with clear logical explanations where required. Happy New Year to you and good luck skiing and making these quality videos for the benefit of us all!

[@JaredManninen]

Rahul, You are too kind :) Thank you for all the nice feedback. I truly appreciate it! And, I'm glad I can provide some helpful information to you (and everyone else who's watching, for that matter!). Again, thank you. And let me know if you ever have any questions. I love talking about this cross-country skiing stuff ;)

[@malachev]

Good choice for the video - Grass Lake. Trying to recall the skis that used when made the loop around Grass, I think some old Fischer Country Crowns - so about 60 and none metal edges. My answer to the question - I would suggest a 55-65 wide (none metal edge) soft double cambered to camber in a half xc ski. Just narrow enough to fit in groomed tracks, but wide enough for variable snow. And yes, none metal edge. Metal edges only provide bit on hard icy snow . . . but they do ice up quicker (sun kissed California powder) and they do slow the glide phase in set tracks. Absolutely agree with Jared . . . pick the right tool for the job. If you really get into skiing (XC, Alpine, BC, you will probably build a quiver of skis to match the snow conditions and/or terrain that you like to ski.

[@JaredManninen]

Hey Clint! Thanks for watching, and for the great feedback :) One of these days I'm going to invest in a non-metal edge skinnier off-track ski. A lot of people think that metal edges are the total answer to "more control" with xc skis but, like you said, they mostly just help in those really hard-packed/icy conditions. In the meantime, the metal edges decreases the gliding capabilities of the skis. Yeah, maybe that's another set I'll have to buy before the season is out! haha. Anyway, I really appreciate you tuning in and adding to the conversation! Thank you so much :)

[@jamiepeirce526]

I was the guy who started with no experience and bought a dual purpose ski, Snowscape 7’s xl (190 - 59 50). After a few months I ended up buying an entry level dedicated track ski (Fischer Sportglass) which are longer, slightly skinnier, less stiff and faster on groomed tracks. I still use the Snowscape 7 Ski’s when cold weather keeps people off the tracks which are then subsequently covered by drifting snow. I can somewhat skate on them which makes travelling on the windswept groomed trails a bit easier when they disappear entirely. Thanks for the great videos, I think next year I will try to pick up some wider dedicated backcountry skis and give it a try.

[@JaredManninen]

Hey Jaime, Thanks so much for the kind words! I appreciate you tuning in and commenting :) If it makes you feel any better, I own a lot of xc skis, boots, poles waxing gear, clothes... haha :) As you dive deeper into the sport, you're probably also going to wind up accumulating and acquiring a lot of gear. It's all good, though. Each tool has its use. But it's clear you've already discovered that! I like the Snowscapes, but you're correct in thinking that they're slightly wider than a dedicated track ski. Using it when there's some fresh snow on the groomers is a great use of its wider base. Now that you've managed to get a couple of sets of skis, definitely get some use out of them before you buy that wider off-track set! I'm doing my best to resist the urge to purchase another set of skis this season (and to just use what I have) because it can all get a little ridiculous over time :) Anyway, thanks again for the kind words. Let me know if you ever have any questions!

[@thormusique]

I just came across this video. This is the best explanation I've seen on this topic, cheers!

[@JaredManninen]

Thank you for the kind words! I really appreciate it :) And I do wish there was one magical set of skis. Haha. But I have yet to find it! ;)

[@simonwoodpecker]

Thanks for the candid perspective on reality that one type of ski will not do it all. Your advice is helping me dial-in which ski I want and helping me come to grips that I'll likely wind up with two pair - track skis and backcountry.

[@JaredManninen]

Hey Tony, Thanks so much for the nice feedback. I appreciate it! And I'm glad I could provide some assistance in selecting your xc skis. It's obviously slightly more costly to buy two different setups but, in the long-run, I really believe that people who do invest in specific skis like that will be much more happy. Skinny off-track skis in deeper snow are just not that fun. And, if you really want to learn diagonal striding technique on groomed terrain, having dedicated track skis are the way to go. Again, I really believe you'll have the best possible experience in both environments with the appropriate skis. Good luck, and I'd be curious to know what you eventually buy :)

[@faceinthecrowd5810]

As a life long alpine skier I got into XC/BC about 6 years ago. Sooooo much information to digest, I leaned into the BC gear with little desire to learn how to telemark I went with tech pin bindings and ultra light AT boots, so I can lock in on the steeper downhills and turn like I have my whole life, resort, alpine style. Now 6 years into the woods I have mixed reviews concerning my equipment, as you point out it is always about compromise. Generally my 2 versions of woods/xc resort skis work . I was pointed toward the Madshus Annum and the Madshus EON both with Dynafit radical turn pin bindings. For boots my ski shop guy put me in Atomic Backlands ultra light AT. So far I can understand that it is my technical skills and time on snow with good instruction that matters more than the exact gear kit. I am currently working on my classic xc form and also northeastern woods skiing…..weather dependent of course. Thanks for your clear and vast knowledge 😎😎😎😎

[@JaredManninen]

Again, I really appreciate all of your wonderful feedback! As much as I'd enjoy running stiffer and more robust bindings/boots for steeper descents, I think that ship has sailed for me. I'm not exactly that old, but I think it's often said that it's more about the miles on the body than the time. haha. So, the risks versus rewards just don't add up for me at this point in my life regarding tackling dangerous terrain in winter. I find that with xc skis, even lower angle hills are pretty exhilarating based on the lightweight nature of the skis and boots and bindings. Also, I appreciate the overall lack of production that's required when running lighter backcountry xc ski gear and traveling through easy to intermediate terrain (compared to steep and deep oriented backcountry skiing). All that gear (i.e. AT skiing), and all the time spent schlepping all that gear through the mountains just doesn't look appealing to me at all. I'm sure the downhills are super fun, but everything else (i.e. approach = flats and uphill = 90% of the experience) just looks like such a slow and heavy grind. Not that I'm adverse to the grind but when you experience the flow that occurs when moving fluidly on xc skis across all kinds of terrain, it's hard to go back to anything else. There are so many joys to the journey with xc skis, so that's where I put most of my efforts (i.e. learning good technique and how to adapt it to all environments). Anyway, thanks again for tuning in and adding to the conversation!

[@Marco858636]

Finally a video that wasn't monotonous to watch for xcountry noobs!

[@JaredManninen]

Thanks for the feedback, Marco 🤗 I try to produce xc ski videos that are down to earth and relatable and feature helpful information.

[@OutYourBackDoor]

Skis are also just like bikes. We have city > road > gravel > XC mtbike > DH mtbike. Not much overlap. So the advice to get what you're going to do most is spot-on. My hunch is most ppl ski places where ppl have skied and walked before. Not machine groomed but tramped instead. Multi-use paths. Often w a bit of skied-in track. Technically this isn't groomed skiing but it's not BC, either. But if you live near grooming, hey, go for it! It's the "roadie" of skiing. Get a skinny ski. But if you want to include more handling challenge or trail variety, add a mtbike type of ski to the mix. In the end, a gravel bike or hardtail sorta ski is great for much common skiing: 48-62mm wide. Full length for speed and mellow terrain. Midlength for the twisties. A hugely awesome innovation not mentioned is the PIVOT CUFF BOOT. (Combi/pursuit boot, or top-shelf tour boot.) This gives HUGELY SUPERIOR CONTROL for turns and for relaxed stability outside firm groomed tracks. We don't even really need tracks anymore. A big factor is the Rec Skier is not getting much love from ski-makers. They're considered 'beginners,' but actually huge skill and desire for fun is out there! Thankfully, we might get enough trickle-down soon to help: movable bindings are here for the elite racers, but still slightly awkward -- they might get an electro push button on ski pole! This will be like gears on a bike! A nowax pattern can then be made small to allow sweet glide then binding moved on top of it to give monster grip. Wow! Awesome for everyday skiers -- who sadly are not on the radar for R&D as a market worth innovating. In short: versatility has NOT been a design goal yet. Bike-makers have caught on to it, but not ski-makers. But it cd happen! Fingers crossed! For actual trail-breaking, we're kinda snowshoeing. And shoes work great! Most skiers expect a slow first lap then for the next day to be faster, etc. This works great! Esp if a dozen neighbors are hitting a park regularly. (Tho today's wide BC skis kick'n'glide better than many think, like you mention!) We need to be heads-up where we lay such tracks: open areas blow in. Sheltered, shaded areas stay great for a much longer time and are pleasant to use: you're not wind-blasted yourself and in times of climate change in many places a forest holds snow much, much better than a field. Thanks for the thoughtful discussion! We need more of this!

[@JaredManninen]

Hey OutYourBackdoor, thanks so much for the kind words and thoughtful comments! Yeah, you could probably substitute just about any sport, profession, or passion and discover that those who practice wholeheartedly have lots of gear for all the possible scenarios that arise. I may have been that guy once or twice in my life. haha! :) I agree -- I would love to see way more discussion about backcountry/off-trail nordic skiing and the idea that you can go on public lands, in the backcountry, or just out your backdoor to play and explore. The safety of being in-bounds, the amenities and modern conveniences, and the fact you get a ride to the top (at downhill resorts, anyway) are compelling arguments just to ski and ride the groomers. But I think it all has conspired to numb and sedate the inherent wanderlust quality that comes with being human. Don't get me wrong, I love xc skiing and riding at groomed resorts. There's no question that it's super convenient and fun. And, more important to me is that it provides an ideal environment for learning proper technique. However, I love backcountry and off-trail travel just as much due to the freedom that comes with the experience. I also appreciate that being in that wild environment requires you to be completely present and focused lest you end up lost, injured, etc... Obviously, the majority of the population live in either an urban or suburban area and don't necessarily have the ability to head to open space on a whim. So, you're probably correct in saying that most people will ski where other people have skied before (I know I do pretty frequently), and that may be just the local park after the first snowfall. But, that's great! You don't need to wait until conditions are just perfect. Get outside and play! Usually the first day of the xc ski season for me is skiing on a couple of inches of snow around the neighborhood on the side of the road. Just enough snow to glide along and a firm enough base (i.e. asphalt) to push off from :) OK, you touched on a lot of things of which I'd like to reply. However, I gotta go to sleep! Thanks again. I appreciate your comments and contributions :)

[@jerrykuc149]

Hi Jared. I’d like to see some mention of waxed ski bottoms versus non-waxed bottoms. Like most folks, I started out on fish scale bottoms for convenience, but now ski exclusively on waxable, smooth ski bottoms. I use Asnes Tur-Modell wooden skis on most trails, especially groomed ones; and I use Madshus Eons with a waxable base on the real backcountry trails. In both cases my skis are fast and much smoother than comparable skis with fish scale bottoms. Spread the word- wax is wicked good!

[@JaredManninen]

Hey Jerry, Thanks so much for watching! And thanks for the comment/suggestion. I've gone back and forth as to whether or not I want to start doing any grip wax-oriented videos. In all honesty, I seldom use them. And that's pretty much based on where I live (Lake Tahoe). In the Sierra Nevada, the snow conditions are always so volatile. We get our fair share of powder days during good winters. However, we also receive lots of "Sierra Cement," which amounts to wet, heavy snow. And then we also experience lots of transformative days where we go through the freeze/thaw cycles (associated with spring skiing). So, using grip wax is basically a nightmare. The standard scenario often revolves around something like hard wax in the morning, but only a few hours later you have to start using klister. Realistically, the only time we get to use hard wax is after fresh snow when it's really cold. Otherwise, the majority of the time we're dealing with klister scenarios (which is not that much fun for anyone -- haha). All of that said, I do agree that getting the grip wax experience (when you get it right) is a dream. Better grip, better glide (aka no scales dragging and making lots of noise!). But, grip wax is just a really hard thing to manage in the conditions that I deal with on a daily basis during the winter. This is why I just prefer to use the different varieties of waxless skis. Also, I think waxless are what most people own due to the simplicity of them. I'll definitely consider producing some sort of video regarding grip wax. But it may be awhile. I appreciate the suggestion, however :) I'm really jealous that you're in a location in which grip wax is a viable option! And, I'm also jealous that you get to run some pretty nice vintage skis. I bet they're beautiful :)

[@paulgrimshaw8334]

I agree. Unfortunately, the industry (manufacturers and retailers) has stepped back from skis with a waxable kick zone to broaden appeal for the occasional skier.

[@JaredManninen]

@@paulgrimshaw8334 Sorry I missed this comment, Paul. I think it got buried in my notifications. But, yes, it seems as if most of the industry has opted to go for the less maintenance aspect of "waxless" grip zones (scales, skins, etc...). For better and worse (in some cases). I have to admit, though, that I like being able to just grab a set of bc xc skis and go without worrying about getting the wax correct :) Thanks again for adding the conversation. I really appreciate it!

[@alyprivate7591]

This is sooooo HELPFUL!

[@JaredManninen]

Excellent! So glad I could be of service :) And feel free to reach out with any/all questions.

[@stephenkohler3472]

Awesome, thank you! I've been trying to figure this out for a month now. This is exactly what I needed to hear.

[@JaredManninen]

Hey Stephen, thanks so much for the nice feedback! Glad I could be of service 🤗 Let me know if you have any specific questions.

[@stephenkohler3472]

@@JaredManninen Thanks! You might be the guy to answer this question. I've got a great AT set-up for the big stuff and snowshoes for wandering. But I really want something for going a long way on closed forest roads and snowmobile trails. So occasionally 3" of powder but mostly packed down by other trail users. Would the Fischer excursion 88's be a good choice? Or is there something else I should be looking at?

[@JaredManninen]

@@stephenkohler3472 Hey Stephen, yeah the Fischer Excursion 88mm would be great for that. You could also look at the Traverse 78mm if you can't find any Excursions. Realistically, anything in the 75-90mm width range will be great for that application. Rossignol has their line of BC XC skis, and most other major cross-country ski manufacturers feature similar off-track/backcountry xc skis that would be worth looking at based on availability. I personally would steer away from anything that requires skins, however. I find that the standard aggressive grip zones (fish scale style) that are featured on these styles of xc skis is more than adequate for use in the conditions of which you're describing.

[@stephenkohler3472]

@@JaredManninen Awesome, thank you! I'll check all of those out... and probably buy whichever one that's still in stock

[@JaredManninen]

@@stephenkohler3472 You're welcome. That's the trick nowadays, just finding xc skis that are still available!

[@ruthforsey3940]

Thanks for helping me sort out my confusion.

[@JaredManninen]

No problem, Ruth. Glad I could be of service! And thanks for watching :)

[@danmalburg3118]

Very helpful video. Thanks Jared I'm anxiously awaiting what little snow we get here in Southwestern Michigan. I got the old skis out and ready for the first time in many years! If I get hooked I'll be looking for some wider skis to enjoy my farm fields.

[@JaredManninen]

Glad I could be of service, Dan :) We just received a few inches here at Lake Tahoe and more is on the way, so I'm also itching to get back out there! I definitely find that wider off-track xc skis make travel across deeper snow way more enjoyable (and less exhausting!). And an fyi, I was born in the UP and grew up during my younger years in the Houghton/Hancock area. Then I moved back for a few years to go to college (Michigan Tech). I miss all the Michigan forests and lakes. But the mountains here in Tahoe aren't too shabby either ;) Take care, and have a great season!

[@danmalburg3118]

Jared, I would have guessed you were a Yooper by your Finnish name and love for winter sports. I grew up a troll, went to Tech in 1974 and immediately fell in love with the Copper Country My wife is from Hancock. I'm nearing retirement and trying to stay in shape. Cross country will definitely fill that need in the winter! Thanks again for the advice and the well produced video!

[@JaredManninen]

@@danmalburg3118 Talk about a small world :) Although I went to Tech, I got a degree in technical writing (as opposed to engineering). Thanks again for the positive feedback. I appreciate it! Have a great season :)

[@buhundbeliever7169]

@@JaredManninen a real Finnish Yooper! I was wondering if you were a Finn by your last name. This makes all your recommendations even better ❄️👍

[@JaredManninen]

@@buhundbeliever7169 Haha, yep I was born a Yooper. Lived in Calumet, Dollar Bay, Houghton, and Hancock during my youth :) Thanks for watching, and for noticing ;)

[@paulgrimshaw8334]

Many thanks, Jared, for your clear and informative ski videos. I understand the impossibility of finding one perfect ski for groomed and ungroomed tracks. The reality faced by many skiers, however, is somewhere in the middle - fresh snow on a groomed track, wind blown tracks, or worn tracks. On balance, my experience is that a moderate BC ski will flow better on freshly groomed corduroy skate lanes or snowed over tracks than a classic ski. Things shift more towards BC in snow country, where an overnight 10-20 cm can effectively halt classic skiing until the groomers get out.

[@JaredManninen]

Hey Paul, Thanks so much for the feedback, and for contributing to the conversation :) I agree that a lot of times when there's fresh snow on groomed terrain it's not as easy to run standard track/classic xc skis, so a wider bc option can definitely help with this scenario. But I do find that skis too wide for the tracks can be frustrating to run on firm, groomed terrain (out of the tracks and in the skate lane) when there's no fresh snow, particularly after the snow has gone through multiple freeze/thaw cycles. And even on a small camber/angle, it can be challenging to consistently edge them to prevent the skis from skidding out laterally. So, yeah, there's not one perfect ski for everything! haha. I think it comes down to personal preference and skills and abilities as to how much a person wants to push the limits of their xc skis. But, again, I stand by my recommendation for getting a set of dedicated track skis for groomed terrain and wider bc xc skis for deeper and ungroomed terrain. You can just have so much more fun with the two sets. Anyway, thanks again for watching and for the kind words.

[@johnbarroll1120]

I like it! unpretentious and informative

[@JaredManninen]

Thanks, John! I appreciate the nice feedback. I do try to keep things pretty straightforward when I'm sharing info :)

[@grantsmith3514]

If this "Surge " continues maybe Fisher will make the Powerlight (Crown & Wax) again. It was a narrow ski with a slight tip & tail variation and regular double camber. According to Crust Skiing Alaska Fisher made one of there high end classic ski with a metal edge. He managed to get a pair into North America. Remember Fisher only brings less than half of what they make to NA..

[@JaredManninen]

Hey Grant, Thanks for the information! I know that most international manufacturers don't necessarily ship their entire product line across the world (probably cost prohibitive), so that Powerlight sounds intriguing. And, honestly, I'm kinda glad we don't have access to everything here. There's a good chance I'd be more broke than I already am! haha :)

[@sagehiker]

2022 answer for myself. I went on my local FB Market place last summer and found a nice set of track ski's that fit me for $40 US. A tuning kit for $20. My local Forest Service-Nordic Club trails, four areas in all, only have classic tracks on groomed trails maybe 25-40 days a season. Two sessions on them and I found I don't really enjoy them. The upside is I have a friend who loves that form and I now I can least keep her in sight...somewhat :) . My local trails are old logging roads and my 70-80 mm backcountry skis are perfect for chasing them or following snowmobile tracks.

[@JaredManninen]

Excellent! Sounds like you got your setup dialed in 🤗

[@nathanwhite7199]

Im new to cross country we have an amazing groomed trail system in our town thst my wife skis almost every night. Im a heavy guy and ive had trouble getting advice on proper equipment. Im 5'10" 275lbs i want to ski the trails with my wife but would also like to ski the powerlines around my house to the swaps and fields. Ive been told i need a wide ski , a long ski, a ski with a lot of crown. Honestly i dont know what route to go. For the next year i will probably do more of the trail system getting use to sking and hopefully sheding some pounds but would love to do some back country sking to some remote cagins and lakes with my kids. I have no issue buy multiple set of gear for each condition but i cannot get a straight answer locally on what i even need to sart with.

[@JaredManninen]

Hey Nathan, Thanks for tuning in and reaching out! Yeah, you're in a tough spot with regard to finding the right length of ski (regardless of style) to accommodate your weight. I'm glad to hear, though, that you're not opposed to owning at least two sets of skis (1 for groomed xc skiing, 1 for off-track xc skiing). Personally, I would go that route. For groomed classic skiing where you're going to be taking advantage of the tracks set by the grooming machine, you may need to consider buying a slightly more expensive track ski. The reason I say this is that every ski will accommodate a certain weight range (as laid out by the manufacturer). However, lower to mid-range priced skis don't usually offer different camber stiffnesses to their skis. They'll offer different lengths, which corresponds to how much weight they can accommodate, but you may have to buy the longest ski in those mid-ranged skis (which may or may not be a good length for your height). At the higher end of track skis you'll find that they're often sold at different camber stiffnesses (soft, med, stiff, extra stiff). This is so people of different body shapes and skillsets can dial in the perfect ski for themselves. Honestly, though, this is often more for racers. For example, you may find that a racing skier is 6'3" and weighs 185 lbs. So they're going to want a longer ski but not one that's super stiff (so they'd get a longer ski with a softer-rated camber, for example). The opposite situation is a short person who weighs a lot. They'll want a shorter ski with an extra stiff camber. This latter situation may be closer to yours. One of the problems with a slightly more costly ski is that they usually don't come with a fish scale type grip zone. Most likely you'll need to get one with skins, which is not a bad thing by any means. But a skin-based waxless xc ski isn't quite as durable or versatile as the scale-patterned types. That may not be a problem, though, as many people absolutely love skin-based grip zones. Here's another video with more info about choosing the right length ( kzbin.info/www/bejne/lZbKd6N5jr1qkJo ). As far as an off-track/backcountry style of xc ski, I'd go with a Fischer or Rossignol as they both offer pretty stiff cambers. You'll just need to buy the longest ski because it'll probably be rated at 200+ lbs. I think Rossignol sells a 199cm backcountry xc ski, which may sound long. But just consider the fact that I'm 5'6" and run a 192-194cm classic track ski on groomed terrain, and it's totally manageable. Okay, that's enough for now. I gotta get my stuff together and head out work! haha Let me know what other questions you have, and if you want clarification on anything I've said above. I'm willing to talk more about it, so just reach out again :)

[@lancebaker7711]

Great presentation!

[@JaredManninen]

Thank you kindly, Lance! Let me know if you ever have any questions. I'd be more than happy to help out in any way I can :)

[@BushtreckBoosh]

Words of wisdom Jared, I just got back into skiing last winter and already feel the need to have multiple skis for different snow conditions. I have been using some rossignol bc 59 skis and have found that even though they aren't the best on or off track, they are awesome at following snow-machine trails. Love the videos dude, been learning lots from you this winter.

[@JaredManninen]

Hey Bushtreck Boosh! Thanks so much for the nice feedback. I appreciate it :) Glad to hear you're getting back into xc skiing. The Fischer Spider 62s I'm running in my video are similar to your Rossi 59s. And I have the same experience as you with regard to them working well along snow-machine trails (i.e. packed off-trail stuff). They also work great in spring conditions when the snow surface is pretty uniform. The temptation to buy many skis is strong! So, pace yourself ;) And let me know if you ever have any questions.

[@thepicturedesk]

Thanks for some great tips. Planning to buy some today.

[@JaredManninen]

Excellent! I highly encourage you to give xc skiing a try this winter :)

[@vanessad3412]

Great video explaining the difference in skis. I found it very helpful in deciding what kind of skiing terrain I want to focus on.

[@JaredManninen]

Excellent! Sometimes having a clearer picture or, rather, choosing to focus on one type of cross-country skiing is the best bet. Trying to make one tool do all the jobs seldom results in ideal or very enjoyable situations. Most people don't want a million different and specific pieces of gear laying around, but being purposeful in your decisions just allows you to have the best time outdoors as possible :) Thanks for all of the comments!

[@explorermike19]

Keep making these excellent videos, Jared. We love 'em. It is enjoyable just to watch you ski so smoothly and quickly and effortlessly. Very nice.

[@JaredManninen]

You're too kind, Mike :) I appreciate the feedback. Work and other projects (and a general lack of fresh snow) has kind of slowed down my production lately. But I'll definitely keep chipping away at the (many, many) videos on my to-do list :)

[@johnroeser4736]

Great video. My two cents is that I think there are many skiers like me, who live in urban areas and get to groomed trails (but often not in great shape) when they can but otherwise go to parks or golf courses where people have tracked out trails, but where you may have to break some trail. I find that the "entry level"/recreational skis that are a little wider but do fit in groomed tracks and are a little shorter than traditional classic skis work pretty well, if there isn't a ton of snow. That said I am going to get different track and bc skis as soon as I can... Cheers

[@JaredManninen]

Hey John, That's great feedback. I appreciate it! Yes, I agree that lower end classic skis that are upwards of 55mm wide are good enough for groomed tracks and for light touring at city parks, etc. (with little snow). I'm sure that the reason I lean toward having two dedicated sets has everything to do with my personal beliefs about learning, as well as the geographical location in which I live and ski. I'm all about having an immersive experience whenever participating in an activity, which partially translates into having appropriate equipment for the situation. I agree that there's something inherently commendable about making do with what you have, as well as not letting the gear determine your success. And I never recommend buying top of the line gear when first starting out. But having decent and appropriate gear for your chosen endeavor does matter if you want to have the best possible learning outcome and to maximize your overall experience. The other contributing factor to my belief in having at least two sets of skis is that I live in the mountains. And, I want the option to travel just about everywhere (within reason) on my skis. I don't want to be restricted to the social trails laid by everyone else. As much as I have skied on social trails and along well-trodden thoroughfares (to less tracked out terrain), those trails don't last long. I usually find that they're enjoyable for the first few days after a snowstorm, but then they get glazed over and stomped on in the following days. When that happens, I just avoid them altogether and often choose to break my own trail. Anyway, I know my answer isn't the one that many people want to hear. But, it's an honest answer. I mean, any person who's ever been passionate about an activity has owned multiple pieces of gear (for their activity). Cross-country skiing is no different in that respect. Again, thank you for contributing to the conversation :)

[@milanbogdanovic6120]

Very helpful video! Thank you Jared!

[@JaredManninen]

You're welcome, and thank you for the kind words 🤗

[@filmic1]

Nice treatment, @jaredManninen. I have a pair of Madshus (60-50-55) VOS MGV+ (steel edge, waxless) and Salomon Elite 7 (58-41-46-49) for groomed. The Madshus are terrific off track.

[@JaredManninen]

Sounds like a great combination! I like that 60mm option. Thanks so much for the comment :)

[@filmic1]

@@JaredManninen (sorry, 60mm not '80mm' for the VOS.) My first xc skis (back in the seventies.) were a pair of dearly loved wood Asnes Tur Langren. Loved prepping the bases with the pine tar for the season. Kept them for years till they lost their camber (I'm heavy 190lbs) then bought a pair of Bonna's. I was an avid downhill skier since I was a squirt of a kid. Then I saw an addy for the Asnes in a current volume of Backpacker or something which triggered my imagination.

[@JaredManninen]

@@filmic1 Gotcha. I must have mis-read the specs. But it still looks like a nice ski :) I had another commenter mention those Tur Langrens. He said if I ever found a pair for $5 bucks I should pick them up, put some pine tar on them, and take them for a spin :) All the current Asnes look really cool. I haven't made the commitment to pick up a set yet though. It's been challenging to fight the urge, but I already have enough skis (but is there ever enough? haha). For my style of skiing though (more emphasis on diagonal striding) and the fact that I'm in the Sierra (such variable snow conditions), I'm really hesitant to want to get any waxable backcountry xc skis such as the Asnes line. I know they have the quick skin option, too, but if you've watched my other video about those quick skins you'll know I'm not a huge fan of using them. But one of these days...

[@filmic1]

@@JaredManninen it was my misprint, not yours. I corrected. I need new specs. :)

[@JaredManninen]

@@filmic1 Haha! I'm wearing readings pretty often now, so I'm not always sure I can trust my own eyes ;)

[@luluchalm3727]

Thank you so much for this! Such helpful information!

[@JaredManninen]

You're welcome, Lanie! I appreciate the feedback :) Let me know if you ever have any questions.

[@markothwriter]

Another way to do it -- garage sales. I bought some track skis for groomed trails for $10. Poles for $5. Then, I had to go buy another pair of boots, - but the whole bundle was a lot cheaper.

[@JaredManninen]

Hey Mark, Thanks for the comment! I agree that you can definitely acquire some knock-around skis at garage sales and thrift stores for really cheap. But buying used is always a mixed bag, especially if you're not very familiar with what you're buying. Over the years, I've had so many disappointed customers come to me with their used equipment trying to figure out why they can't either glide or get any grip. Often it's because the skis are not the appropriate length for the skier in question (i.e. they don't bear the user's weight properly) or the cambers are completely shot causing the ski to drag the whole time (i.e. ski is old and overused). Anyway, I appreciate you tuning in and commenting. If you're at all interested in reading more about what I think of buying used xc ski gear, read the following article... tahoetrailguide.com/buying-cross-country-ski-gear-for-beginners-part-1/ Thanks again!

[@markothwriter]

@@JaredManninen yeah, I wouldn't buy back-country skis at a garage sale. But, just for getting exercise on the groomers, it can be a way to go.

[@JaredManninen]

@@markothwriter For sure! I do like the idea of putting back into circulation used gear :) I have more than one pair of older skis that aren't the best anymore, but work well as "rock" skis for pre and post-season adventures :)

[@student207]

IMO ,to narrow it down, forget 62 narrow skis unless you live near and like resort track skiing or on budget. 112 maybe too wide for all around , it's like downhill telemark, go for 78 (lighter/ faster) or 88 (heavier) all around xc, hour glass shape is for easier hill turning, 88 maybe if northern big snow area.

[@JaredManninen]

Hey J C, thanks for the feedback! I agree, the 62s aren't super versatile and the 112s are too wide for most conditions. 78s and 88s are most appropriate for all-around backcountry xc skiing. That said, I'm asked by a lot of people about one ski that could technically perform both duties. And this is probably because I do live where there are a number of groomed cross-country resorts. So, that's why I prominently featured those 62s in this video (because they could fit in the tracks as well). But they definitely don't do well in deeper snow. I primarily use them for early in the season and late in the spring. They perform surprisingly well in firm conditions. Anyway, thanks again for the comment 👍

[@stevejorde]

Jared I have a video suggestion. How does one PREPARE physically for the coming cross-country skiing season? What do you do during the warmer months to get physically ready when the snow starts to fall? Just wondering.

[@JaredManninen]

Hey Jorde, Thanks for the suggestion! I honestly have been struggling with producing off-season content. Mostly it's a function of time in that I seldom have enough time during the summers due to workload to consistently produce videos. But I will make more of an effort after this winter. That said, I made a balance/stability video this past summer (kzbin.info/www/bejne/eqmXgYuZdrFrg5o). It's not necessarily a series of exercises that'll prepare you in the short-term. Rather, I recommend incorporating them into an existing strength training program. Basically they're for developing stability and balance on one leg (for xc skiing). Personally, I find that constantly working on that one-legged balance and stability is the most effective way to being prepared for the cross-country ski season. The reason I say that is because the cardio will come after a few sessions on skis. At least, that's what I've found to be the case over the years. Keep in mind, however, that I'm not a professional skier or racer so I'm never in a rush to ski long and fast during the first few weeks of the season. I rotate between winter/summer work in the outdoor rec industry, so I'm always outside and always on my feet. So I'm essentially hiking in one form or another all year long. I'll occasionally incorporate trail running into my exercise program, as well. But I've run so much over the course of my life that I'm kind of bored with it right now. That said, because there isn't any snow in Tahoe on which to ski I've started to run more often these past couple of weeks. I figured I better start upping my cardio just in case we have a really short winter. Basically, I don't want to miss out on any days of skiing by not being in shape enough to enjoy them :) If you don't have snow on which to ski right now, get out and hike and run as much as you can. Use trekking poles, too, and mimic the motion of xc skiing. There are a whole bunch of various dryland training exercises out there. I just haven't produced any videos about them yet. And, for that, I apologize. Anyway, hope some of that helps!

[@stevejorde]

Thanks, that really helps!

[@JaredManninen]

@@stevejorde Excellent!

[@jmmhogan1]

Great video and great articles! My wife and I were just at Gear West on Sunday, picking up a pair of boots for her. We're learning and you're helping - thank you very much!

[@JaredManninen]

So glad you're finding my website/channel helpful! And thank you for the kind words :) Gear West is a great shop. I wish I had easier access to it (but I'm on the other side of the country - haha). Have a great winter!

[@Sirskibumsalot]

Hey Jared thanks for the vid ....I don't cross country ski but I pretend on my Madshus Annums ....ha ! No not really but do you have a video on back country skis with the fish scale bases ? I just bought some Karhu Catamounts and they are 70mm. @ foot and 190 cm. long .... Just took them out for a spin yesterday in the back country and they worked really well ....best $25 bucks I ever spent ! But yea would like to hear what ya think about these kinda skis .... and yea skis are like golf clubs I tell people you need a different pair for every kind of snow and condition you are in ..... have a good rest of the season !

[@JaredManninen]

Hey ski bum, thanks again for the kind words :) I'm jealous of you and your Madshus Annums (aka the former Karhu Guide)! That's a beautiful ski, and it has about the same sidecut as the Fischer S-Bound 112s I'm running in the video (the bigger ones, obviously). I'm not too familiar with the Karhu Catamounts because I'm only six years into this cross-country skiing obsession. But from many discussions I've had with long-time xc skiers and a little of my own research, pretty much the whole line of 10th mtn division skis sounds super fun to run. I just did a quick search for the Catamounts and saw one pair that has a sidecut of 84-68-74. That's just a little straighter than my Fischer 88 Excursions (88-68-78), and I really enjoy skiing on those when there's less than 8 inches of fresh snow. I'd say for $25 you got a great deal! I don't have any specific videos yet about backcountry cross-country skiing where I go into depth about the benefits of that style of ski. But that's the only type of ski I run (essentially classic xc skis with aggressive fish scale grip zones). From what I understand, Fischer backcountry xc skis are a bit more stiff than other manufacturers such as the Madshus line. The stiffer ski makes for better diagonal striding and I think it can handle consolidated and crustier snow a little better for that fact. I think the bottom line is that these types of xc skis will never be able to perform as effectively and safely in steep terrain as an AT or Tele setup. But that's fine with me because I prefer distance and lower angle terrain over the steep stuff. Besides, half the time I'm by myself anyway so I couldn't afford to take the risks even if I wanted to! Anyway, I wish you a great rest of your season as well. And let me know how those Catamounts work out!

[@Sirskibumsalot]

@@JaredManninen ...will let ya know how the karhus ....Thanks again and talk at ya soon . sb.

[@JaredManninen]

@@Sirskibumsalot Sounds great! Have a good one :)

[@garrettmiklautz175]

I just got into cross country skiing this winter. I got a great pair of atomic race skis at a very cheap price from a friend who was a former Olympian. I am now realizing i find myself more on un maintained trails/tracks out in the bush. I want to keep these current skis for proper tracking skiing, but i am looking for a good alternative for more back country off track skiing. How wide of a bc ski could i go while still using normal nnn bindings and boots. I dont want to have to buy a whole new set of bc boots and bindings. Great video, and thanks for taking the time to reply to all these comments.

[@JaredManninen]

Thanks so much for the question and feedback, Garrett :) And I totally understand not wanting to own multiple sets of boots, etc. I'd probably stick to off-track xc skis that were no wider than 70mm if I was to put regular NNN bindings on them. You might be able to get away with putting NNN bindings on a set of Fischer Traverse 78mm skis, but you might want to see that option in person before buying. It's hard to visualize the setup when looking online, but I've seen wider off-track skis with NNN bindings on them and they totally look odd. And, in those cases, it seems like the binding would rip right off when trying to make a semi-forceful turn. I have NNN bindings on my Fischer Spider 62mm, and they work just fine. Not sure what width other manufacturers offer between the Spider 62s and Traverse 78s, but I'd stick within that realm with standard NNN bindings. Hope that helps! Let me know if you have other questions :)

[@garrettmiklautz175]

@@JaredManninen Thats great, thanks for the info. Now the long search for a dealer with skis in stock.

[@JaredManninen]

@@garrettmiklautz175 Yeah, inventory will probably be your biggest challenge. I'm crossing my fingers that you'll find exactly what you're looking for :)

[@anyaguerra297]

Thanks this was very helpful!

[@JaredManninen]

Thank you for the kind words, Anya :) Let me know if you have any specific questions!

[@51rwyatt]

total noob in Maine, just experienced the downsides of a narrow ski doing some laps around my property. Fun though

[@JaredManninen]

Awesome! Glad you got out there :) There's nothing wrong with doing what you can with what you got. But skinny skis in deeper snow is definitely more challenging! Thanks for tuning in, and for the comment. Hope you have a great winter! And if you ever have any questions, just let me know :)

[@51rwyatt]

@@JaredManninen Thanks. My wife and I are going to Sugarloaf in Maine in January as a sort of entree to cross-country, and we're puttering around our property in the meantime to get some falls in. Thanks for the very helpful vids.

[@JaredManninen]

@@51rwyatt Sounds like fun all around :) And, you're welcome!

[@ivanap7935]

Thank you for the very informative video, :)

[@JaredManninen]

Thank you for the kinds words, Ivana :) I'm glad I could be of service!

[@billb4389]

Jared thanks for the video. You have the most informative in depth videos on Nordic skiing on you tube. Thank you! Question for you I live in Eastern Pennsylvania we get about two - three feet of snow max a year. We have several parks where people Nordic ski and snow shoe when the snow sticks around. I don’t plan on going to groomed trails just the local parks go off trail and maybe ride tracks others laid. I was looking at the Fischer OTC 62, 68 and the 78. I’m 6 ft 210 any thoughts which might be the better width? I’ll probably use them half dozen times or so in between snowboarding. Our parks like valley forge in Philly have some good open spaces and also some trails. Thanks in advance.

[@JaredManninen]

Hey Bill, Thanks so much for the wonderful feedback! I really appreciate it :) Even though you're probably not going to be xc skiing on more than a few inches of snow each time, I'd recommend buying either the 68s or 78s. And based on the amount of snow that you get (which isn't much, unfortunately), I suspect that the Outback 68s would be just fine for your needs. My friend has a set of them, and I've run them a couple of times. They can handle a few inches of fresh snow nicely and still remain buoyant. That said, the Traverse 78s wouldn't be a bad option as that width is super versatile. However, the wider the ski the more challenging it is to manipulate on hard-packed snow and ice. So, those potentially icy trails that you could find yourself on might be more challenging (i.e. dangerous) to negotiate with the 78s. But for open fields with a decent amount of fresh snow, they'd be really fun. I think it would be hit or miss with the Spider 62s as they are pretty skinny. For firm conditions they'd be fine, but even a few inches of fresh snow renders them frustrating to use (as you can see in this video). So, I think I'd shy away from them and choose one of the other widths. Lastly, you may just have to buy what's available. I'm sure there are plenty of options for all three of those styles right now. But they can go fast. So I wouldn't recommend waiting too long to buy. Anyway, that's my two cents. Hope it helps! Let me know what you ultimately choose :) And let me know if you have any other questions.

[@khalidjanmohamed]

Hi Jared - this was another really great and informative video to watch! I also thought while watching that it would be helpful to get your thoughts on the two skis I was choosing between. I ended up getting the Snowscape 7s from my local ski shop in size large (185 cm x 59 mm), and those are the skis I’ve been using for the last week (all on rough “tracks” at a ravine/park close to home). Before I realized my local shop had those though, I’d already ordered the Salomon Escape 5s (198 cm x 51 mm) for pick up at a big box store, and they just arrived at the store yesterday. So before cancelling the order for the Escape 5s, I’m wondering what you think between the two sets of skis for my intended use. I imagine that I’ll be skiing almost all of the time at my local ravine/park, where lots of folks ski, so there’s almost always a rough track laid down. For now, I probably won’t get out to groomed tracks more than 2-3 times a year. From everything I’ve learned from your channel, this video, and this comments section, it sounds like the Snowscapes are the better ski for me, since the added width and shorter length make them more manageable for the rough tracks conditions I’m mostly skiing in, and they’ll still be decent (though not ideal) on groomed tracks. And my experience with the Snowscapes so far at the local park definitely aligns with that, but I just want to be sure that they’re the right choice between the two for the conditions I’ll mostly be skiing in. Thanks in advance for your thoughts, and hope all’s well!

[@JaredManninen]

Hey Khalid, I think you're right in choosing the Snowscapes. Their shorter length and wider profile seem like they'd be more suited for the terrain in which you're xc skiing. And it sounds like your personal experience with them does confirm that. The Escapes sound like they'd be good for the groomed ski area experience, but if you're not going to be going to groomed resorts often they're probably going to sit in storage most of the time. And, realistically, you could use the Snowscapes in groomed tracks since they're still only 59mm wide. Anyway, that's my two cents ☺️

[@khalidjanmohamed]

@@JaredManninen Great, thanks Jared! I was leaning towards just sticking with the Snowscapes, but as a newbie it’s really helpful to have the benefit of your opinion that they’re likely the right choice.

[@JaredManninen]

You're welcome!

[@davethomas543]

I went with Alpina Discovery 68 , with Alpina Alaska boots , and Rottefella BC magnum Manual bindings. Where I live this has been a great all around ski. I am now looking for a set of skis that are wider and that use skins , for the outings that I am lugging gear . Thanks for the video

[@JaredManninen]

Hey Dave, Thanks for watching, and for the kind words :) Sounds like a great setup you have. Very versatile, so long as you don't have multiple feet of fresh snow with which to content. But, then again, there aren't too many skis (regardless of width) that can handle that much snow :) But when you do get that wider set of skis, you'll pretty much be ready for any off-trail adventure! Thanks again for tuning in :)

[@thomasgreen4009]

Rossignal BC 59 was my choice with Alpina boots 50 mm toe pins

[@JaredManninen]

@@thomasgreen4009 Excellent! I hope you have fun with them this winter :)

[@thomfactor]

Thanks for this very informative overview. You have helped me tremendously in my journey to get out into the great outdoors on a set of skis! - thom

[@JaredManninen]

Thank you very much, Thom! Great to chat with you :)

[@LaidBackGolf]

i found a set on the side of the road, and have been using them for everything and have fun. wish i had a proper pair though. i like backcountry more than groomed or tracks. best rec for back country ones for a beginner/ novice but in pretty good shape but im kinda broke

[@JaredManninen]

Gear appears in the strangest of places sometimes :) I've found at least one pair of forgotten backcountry cross-country skis on the side of the road, as well. I left a note at the location and called around to various shops in town in an effort to track down the previous owner. But no luck. They were sized too big for me, so one of my good friends inherited them. And now he has a blast with them. All we can really hope for when we lose gear on the trail is that someone else claims it and gives it new life :) So, it's good to hear that you're making the most of your treasure! When you do get around to buying a new set, I'd say based on your desire for backcountry travel to get a set that's at least 75mm wide. The general consensus is that 75-90mm are the best width for all-around backcountry cross-country skis. Good luck! And hope you're having a great winter!

[@LaidBackGolf]

​@@JaredManninen i found mine on a road next to the dump, figured they were trashed. i rode today, very fun

[@yogavnture1]

thanks for your help i think im gonna go to duluth minn for a month. if i sit in my house anymore I'm going mental

[@JaredManninen]

Excellent, yogi! Good luck and good skiing 👍

[@yogavnture1]

@@JaredManninen does wax that is 25 years old is it still ok to use

[@JaredManninen]

I think so. I'm not aware of it going bad, so I'd definitely give it a try (and save yourself some money)!

[@FMRusty]

So what about the same boots for groomed and BC? 3-Pin? UPDATE: Watch the next video in this excellent series, about one set of XC Boots for Classic and BC. Here's the link.... kzbin.info/www/bejne/fGjCgqegoc54j9U

[@JaredManninen]

Hey F.M. Rusty, You beat me to it -- sharing that video link about the xc ski boots -- haha. I was a bit too tired last night after work to get on the computer and respond, so I appreciate you looking deeper into my catalogue of xc ski videos :) I always appreciate a universal tool whenever appropriate. However, I do tend to find that those universal tools can sometimes just be ok for multiple things, but not great in any one situation. In the context of xc skiing, the latter is what I've experienced when trying to make one set of skis/boots work for everything. That's why I recommend just getting two different sets of xc skis/boots to make it more enjoyable and efficient to ski in both environments (groomers and off-trail). I know a lot of people just want the one-stop shopping experience particularly when they're only going to be using the gear in question a few times per season, for example. But I also think a person is inclined to increase their activity (beyond their initial ideas) after they've used the right gear from the get-go. Anyway, I appreciate your feedback and for tuning in! Feel free to ask me any/all questions that you may have going forward. And let's all cross our fingers for a great upcoming cross-country ski season!

[@frontagulus]

Thanks for this info. So for a resort with groomed trails, what width and length would you recommend for a 6' / 220# person, and then for a "lightly groomed" nature park that would have tracks cut by other folks, what would you recommend? And it sounds like NNN bindings are the general consensus?

[@JaredManninen]

Thanks for the question! The length of ski that you'll want to use is the one that's based on your weight. Every cross-country ski has its own unique weight range that it will accommodate, so just buy the length of ski based on your weight. You can either find the weight ranges at the manufacturers' website or by one of the many charts offered by cross-country retailers (just do an online search once you've narrowed down the ski you want to buy). I talk more about ski length choices in this video (kzbin.info/www/bejne/lZbKd6N5jr1qkJo). As far as the type of ski you could use, well, there's a ton of options. But if you were trying to do double duty (groomed resort and "lightly groomed" park) I'd recommend something in the "ski touring" line of xc skis. Most manufacturers make a slightly wider classic xc ski with or without metal edges that can work in the two environments relatively well. A lot of times those skis will run somewhere between 50-60mm wide. Keep in mind, though, that they're not going to be the fastest track ski or the best off-track ski for deep snow. But, I think this type of ski would accommodate groomed terrain and parks (with tracks laid by other folks) just fine. Some examples of this type of ski would be Fischer's Country Crown, Salomon's Escape, or Rossignol's EVO XT 50. I agree that the NNN option for binding would be fine for this application. Nearly every xc ski boot manufacturer makes an NNN compatible boot nowadays. There's been a recent shift (within the past couple of years) in the industry to finally and fully embrace NNN. Salomon began to offer ProLink (NNN compatible) option not too long ago, and that kind of opened up the idea that there could be a (much needed and welcomed) standardization of binding systems in the nordic world. Just make sure when purchasing, that the boots and bindings are both NNN compatible. Here's another link to an article I wrote about buying xc skis. It may or may not be helpful to you. tahoetrailguide.com/buying-cross-country-ski-gear-for-beginners-part-1/ Good luck! And, I hope you have a great winter :)

[@RugbyGuide]

I’d appreciate your thoughts/recommendation for someone who only skis forest hiking trails. They’re often wide enough to skate on but dog walkers rule there so the conditions are never good. Lots of small hills, little dips, and turns can be fun but my current skis are 196cm classic and I’ve wondered if I’d be better off with something shorter? (I’m 5’9” and just over 200lbs... skis were something I got second hand for next to nothing.) Thanks!

[@JaredManninen]

Thanks for the comments and questions! I suspect that you'd probably have a better time with something more off-track oriented. Most of the xc ski manufacturers that make off-track and backcountry types of cross-country skis feature them in shorter/wider sizes. And most offer 3-5 different lengths (kind of a "few sizes fit most" type of a thing). At 200+ pounds, however, you're still going to need to use one of the longer versions, but they're usually about 189cm so at least you can save yourself a few centimeters in length. Those off-track variety are also classic skis with aggressive (scale-patterned) grip zones. So, not ideal for skating. But I don't think that was what you were intending to do (rather just describing the general width of the trails on which you'll be skiing by mentioning skate skiing). So, the fact that they're classic means that you'll occupy less real estate on the trails (i.e. be able to avoid those dogs and owners) a little easier. Also, most versions of those off-track skis feature a more prominent sidecut (that traditional track skis), so that should make negotiating the downhill turns a bit easier (in addition to their slightly shortened length compared to your 196cm). I don't have a specific brand or model of ski that I'd recommend (especially since inventory is super low everywhere right now), but if you're dealing with mostly firm surfaces (based on high volume of use), I probably wouldn't get skis that are wider than 90mm. Honestly, I'd probably shoot for something between 65-75mm wide because they'll be a bit easier to manage with regard to their edges than a ski that's wider than 90mm. That said, they won't be super great in fresh snow over 8-12 inches. Just keep that in mind. But, again, if you're using a high-use trail I imagine you'll be dealing with firmer conditions (therefore, a slightly skinnier ski is easier to manipulate). Anyway, that's about all I can come up with at the moment. Let me know what you end up choosing to do!

[@RugbyGuide]

@@JaredManninen Wonderful response! Thank you so much for that! It certainly gives me a lot to think about, possibly for next season or to keep my eyes open where stock does exist. All the best!

[@JaredManninen]

@@RugbyGuide You're welcome. Glad I could be of service :) And I think you're on the right track as far as treating this as a somewhat long-term endeavor (as opposed to rushing out and buying the first thing you find). Take care!

[@mikecarbone8475]

hi Jared - I used to back country ski a. lot in my younger days. Bad knees have held me back recently, but I want to get back into it. I have an old pair of fischer scaled, metal edged skis, 215s i think. They have a 3 pin binding. I was looking at those fischer 88 otx skis. I want something a little shorter and wider as it's hilly here in northern New England where I would ski. If I'm only looking at one ski, would. the 88s be a good width. I do not do groomed trails. Also, would you get the NNN BC bindings over the 3 pin? Thanks for all your advice. Mike

[@JaredManninen]

Hey Mike! Thanks for watching, and for the question. If you weren't planning on going to groomed areas, I'd imagine that the 88mm wide backcountry xc skis would be just fine. I have a set and use them quite often throughout the season for snow that's anywhere from 1-8 inches (of fresh stuff on top). They will start to sink over six inches, but they're still functional to some degree. On really firm snow conditions, they are a little more squirrely than a skinnier ski. But it's a great in-between width that'll accommodate a wide range of conditions. The NNN BC binding would be fine, too. However, I'd recommend the manual version as the entire platform is just slightly bigger than the auto version. Thanks again for tuning in, and for the question. Let me know if you need anything else or if you want clarification on anything I've said here!

[@LukePighetti]

What would you recommend for areas that have both groomed trails, backcountry trails laid by other skiers, and trails that you will need to lay yourself. The conditions will range from powder to hard packed and icy. You'll run in to all of these conditions in a single outing and thus you won't be carrying extra skis on your back. (Acadia National Park)

[@JaredManninen]

Hey Luke, Looks like quite the trip! Acadia National Park looks amazing :) Based on all of that criteria, I'm thinking that something like Fischer's Traverse 78mm would be good. You wouldn't be able to run it in machine-groomed classic tracks, so you'd have to ski alongside them. But they would fit in manmade tracks, not be so wide for hard-packed conditions, and still be relatively wide enough to break trail. In really deep powder, you'd definitely be sinking with them but in most cases you'll sink no matter how wide your skis are assuming that the snow was over 10 inches. If I were to go on that same trip with the gear that I currently own, I'd take my Excursion 88mm just because I don't have the Traverse 78s. I've also run the 88s on plenty of variable terrain so if I was faced with icy conditions they wouldn't be fun but I'd be familiar with their performance. Anyway, a backcountry xc ski anywhere between 70-90mm would probably suit you fine for that particular trip. Let me know if you have other questions or want additional clarification. Also let me know what you end up choosing, and how the trip goes! Lastly, not sure if you've watched it yet but this is a video I recently published about diagonal striding in the backcountry. In it I do discuss options for dealing with the types of conditions in which you could encounter in the backcountry. It may be of interest to you... kzbin.info/www/bejne/bqjMg42no9-laqc

[@yossarianmnichols9641]

quite a bit less than 70 mm where I ski groomed, Mt Spokane Nordic Trail system. It is supposed to be groomed 5 days a week but the State Parks can't pull it off. Grooming during the midnight shift is one of the problems. No one wants that job. Should be grooming 4PM to 11PM and then go home and live like a normal person. I think the tracks are down to 60 mm in width.

[@JaredManninen]

Grooming in many state park systems can be frustrating as they're not usually a full resort operation with lots of support. Here at Lake Tahoe there's at least one state park that traditionally has been groomed, but over the years the one guy who's done it has moved on to other endeavors. I humored taking up the challenge for about one minute because it's a huge investment. Basically, the guy who groomed the park owned the equipment so I would've had to provide my own which I can't afford. The xc ski resort that I work at is a full resort experience, however. So we have groomers operating completely based on the conditions. And often the best times are through the night. But, that's an entire profession and they take it seriously so they plan for the swing/graveyard shift. Not something I'd be super interested in doing though! As far as a the width of the tracks, I've found them to consistently be between 60-70mm wide, depending on quality of snow (firm vs. soft and new vs. old) and volume of use. And I've seen plenty of people use some 60-65mm (off-track oriented) xc skis in the tracks. But they're definitely pushing the limits. I think a lot of times a person could get away with a 60mm ski in the tracks based on the snow conditions (softer can be more forgiving) and use of tracks (a lot of times they'll be blown out to one degree or another based on volume of use). Anyway, I'll always recommend using track-oriented xc skis on groomed terrain because it's essentially the correct tool for the job. And, as a result, way more of an enjoyable experience. Thanks for the feedback! And, I hope you have a great winter season :)

[@Mustela_Furo]

Hi Jared! Thanks for the video. I need ideas for skis for getting in and out of my cabin when the road is snowed in. There usually are snowmobile tracks I could follow, so I guess that would be like groomed? I would probably be hauling a toboggan with gear. I also would like to go around in the meadows and forest around the house. This is near Flagstaff. I’m an expert downhill skier and a fair ice skater so have some experience with edges and winter sports. Any ideas? Also... does no one have skis at this time of year?

[@JaredManninen]

Hey Rebecca, Thanks for the comment/question! For your needs, I'd probably recommend an off-track variety of ski such as what I'm running in this video (Fischer Spider 62mm). You could probably use a ski that was up to about 70mm, but I wouldn't necessarily recommend anything wider. It sounds like you'll be doing lighter duty, off-track skiing and anything between 60-70mm would suit you just fine. Rossignol makes a nice 65mm backcountry ski as well. And, other major xc ski manufacturers offer similar styles of xc skis. I'm pretty biased on the subject, but I steer clear of off-track skis that feature a skin-type grip zone versus standard "fish scales." I know a lot of people like the skins nowadays, but those scales are just so durable and predictable. The reason I wanted to throw that in there is because a lot of manufacturers have begun to feature skin-based grip zones on off-track skis in this width. So, you'll probably run into that while searching for your skis. Again, I'm biased on this subject though. Other people love their skins. I just don't. I do have a feeling that finding anything in stock right now will be challenging. But I have to believe there's at least one set of skis out there with your name on them :) Good luck, and thanks for reaching out. Let me know if you have other questions!

[@Mustela_Furo]

@@JaredManninen Thanks for the reply! Should I stick under 70 mm because the wider ones won't be as fast? I feel drawn to slightly wider skis because of my experience telemarking and also because there's a chance I'm going to have to slog 2 miles through fresh snow at some point. I don't think I'll ever be in the parallel "groomed tracks" because there just aren't such things near me. I'm going to start looking! And thanks for the tip about the skins!

[@JaredManninen]

@@Mustela_Furo If you're for sure never going to use them at a groomed resort, you could definitely go a little wider then. The issue with too wide is that they're challenging to keep from being squirrely on firm snow (i.e. snowmobile tracks). I have some skis that are 112mm wide and they're annoying to use when the snow is all-around firm (great in deep snow, of course). But a lot of people find that 70-90mm provide the best width for all-mountain light touring, so you could definitely get something in that width range if you felt inclined. Fischer has the Excursion 88mm that could be ideal for you. Or, the Traverse 78mm.

[@TheCaptainA]

Did you say 112mm underfoot? That's huge. What ski is that? Thanks for videos. Love em

[@JaredManninen]

Hey TheCaptainA, thanks so much for the positive feedback. I appreciate it :) Actually 112mm at the tip! It's a pair of Fischer S-Bound 112s, and they have a sidecut of 112-78-95. They're pretty big, all things considered. But they still work just fine for diagonal striding :)

[@TheCaptainA]

@@JaredManninen Very cool. Do you use NNN-BC bindings with those? Would love to see a video showing and talking about that setup at some point. Thanks

[@JaredManninen]

I do use NNN BC bindings on a couple of sets of skis. I actually have two sets of the 62s, one with standard NNN (which I'm using in the video) and another with the NNN BC. I also have a set of Fischer 88s that I use and NNN BC Magnum (manual version). The 112s have a basic 3-pin (no cables or anything) and I find those are the more solid binding for the wider xc skis in this style of ski. But I like the NNN BC option with regard to the fact that its basically like an NNN hinge so everything is more free and better for diagonal striding. However, my downhill skills aren't that great, so it's challenging for me to get them to turn compared to that 3-pin setup. That said, on the 62mm version I have, it's pretty easy to apply pressure to the ski with the NNN BC binding system since the ski is pretty skinny. I'll eventually do a video about the different backcountry cross-country skis that I use (including the binding systems). So, thanks for the feedback!

[@johnwesterveld]

Hi Jared...completely agree. I’ve been cross-country skiing off track with my old skis which were called “BC” but are really narrow and long. I experienced all the things you talked about; skis buried in the snow, torpedoing, and many, many falls. I’m ready to buy new skis, but haven’t been able to find any. All my local stores are sold out and I can’t even find them on-line. I’m sure part of the problem is that we are late in the season...and I’m sure COVID doesn’t help. Do you have any good sources for buying ski equipment on-line? I’m in Canada, so I may be limited in which outlets will ship here. Thanks again for your many great videos!

[@JaredManninen]

Hey John, Thanks so much for the comments and great feedback! I love having these conversations :) As far as buying xc ski gear right now goes, I would just dial back your expectations in the short-term. All of the research and information I've gathered since last year points to low supply and high demand. And a disrupted supply chain for the past year. Many shops have been sold out since Christmas because so many people ordered their gear way back in the fall. And most manufacturers don't necessarily have extra inventory (especially this late in the winter). I'd probably set your sights on just getting gear for next season since nobody seems to have any. And, unfortunately, I don't have any great resources from which to purchase. The only online source I tend to recommend is Gear West (out of Minnesota). They're a big brick and mortar store, but have a great online presence. But, like you said, not sure what the shipping would look like if they have anything that interests you. What I would say is that if you have any local shops near you (or even just in your general region), maybe work on building a relationship with them and see if you can place an early order with them for next year's gear. Most of the time businesses/retailers/resellers will have to place their order during the current winter (so now maybe a little late) for the next winter. And, usually that inventory is shipped in the fall. So, not sure if that's still a possibility, but I'd start by checking with a local retailer to see if they can get you in on their order. I know when I worked at a backpacking retailer for a few years we'd always add to our order if people paid in advance for gear slated for the next season. Anyway, that's about all I can think of at the moment. If I hear of any other resources, I'll post another comment. Good luck, and let me know what you end up doing!

[@johnwesterveld]

@@JaredManninen Thanks so much for the advice. I've pretty well resigned myself to waiting till next season for new gear. I will reach out to my local shop and see if I can reserve a package for next season. Thanks again - looking forward to the next great video!

[@JaredManninen]

@@johnwesterveld You're welcome, John. Thanks again for tuning in! And, I'm trying to assemble another video but end of season work has been getting the best of me! haha :)

[@makikon4333]

I can downhill ski on groomed black, but I was so surprised how different and difficult cross country is! I have a 10-month-old husky and I really want to improve the technique so I can go skijoring next season with him fully grown. Very few resorts on the east coast allow the dog, so it will be mostly on meadows and in the woods. So I guess I am looking into a set of back-country skis... Snow here in NY gets icy and rarely fluffy as in Tahoes. But I know metal edge may hurt him...Any tips I would appreciate it!

[@JaredManninen]

Hey Makiko, Thanks for watching, and thanks for the comment :) An interesting endeavor in which your embarking (pun intended!). I'm not super familiar with skijoring, but what I gather is that there are two somewhat distinct paths in which to choose from. The first is to skate ski on a groomed surface (at a resort, for example) with your dog. Classic skiing for skijoring at a groomed resort is generally frowned upon because the dogs essentially ruin the track. But it sounds like you don't necessarily have this option. So, like you said, the other idea is to classic cross-country ski off-track and on ungroomed surfaces. Many wider off-track skis do feature metal edges which could definitely pose a hazard to your dog. But because you don't receive the deeper, powdery snow that we do here in Tahoe you probably don't need a set of super wide backcountry classic cross-country skis (with metal edges). I've actually seen many different models of classic cross-country skis that are about 60mm wide but don't have metal edges. These would probably be perfect for you. Often, they're more oriented for recreationalists because they're wider than a regular track ski and can be used off-track, but aren't too wide so they could still be used at a groomed resort. And, they don't have metal edges, again, so that they could also be used at a groomed xc ski area. These seem like they'd be ideal for your needs, especially because you're looking to ski in flatter and firmer terrain. Not sure if I mentioned it in this video, but I actually find that wider xc skis are more challenging to run on flat and icy surfaces, which is why I'll use those 62mm off-track skis (featured in this video) in those conditions. I believe most xc ski manufacturers end up calling these styles of skis (wider than track skis, but no metal edges) either ski touring or adventure skis. Something like that. Fischer sells a ski called the Adventure 62, which is essentially the same type of ski I'm running in this video but it specifically doesn't have a metal edge. Fischer also sells a model called the Country Crown which, again, is wider (60mm) for skiing off-track, but doesn't feature a metal edge. I only own Fischer skis so those two models are the only ones I can think of off the top of my head. All major xc ski manufacturers make something similar, so just check around. I think that's what I would be looking for... an xc ski that's about 60mm wide, with an aggressive grip zone, and no metal edge. And, I don't think you'll have much trouble finding something like that other than the fact that inventory is probably low no matter where you look right now. I have a number of friends who have dogs and when we xc ski together, I occasionally get stressed out due to the dogs' behavior. Usually it's in deeper snow, though. They'll either chase my skis or won't realize I'm wearing skis and run too close to me. So, definitely train your dog to keep its distance no matter what type of ski you end up with. Lastly, take some classic xc ski lessons to learn how to efficiently and effectively diagonal stride. You'll have a much better time knowing proper technique :) Good luck, and let me know what you come up with!

[@makikon4333]

@@JaredManninen Wow! Thank you so much for the wealth of infomation. I appreciate it! That sounds like a good place to start my search. Some sites recommended skate skis for skijoring, but I felt intimidated by those racing stuff. It's very likely that my pup just wants to run beside us freely instead of doing the work his breed intended, so I wasn't going to go too crazy. Normally, we go to Vermont for snow sports but they have a super stringent Covid policy, so we were thinking of just going to some farm in the countryside. Interesting how so many people are picking up cross-country this year. I am very excited...Thanks again!

[@JaredManninen]

@@makikon4333 No problem, Makiko. Glad I could be of service :) I've noticed, too, that a ton of people are exploring cross-country skiing and snowshoeing as winter options (due to Covid protocols). I'm all for it! There's something so wonderful about being able to freely roam the forests, mountains, and country sides during the winter. Yeah, and skate skiing is a pretty specific thing requiring certain (flat, uniform, groomed) snow conditions. Probably way more time, effort, and logistics than what you're looking to invest at this point.

[@illyadmark3223]

Jared, how about 1 set of boots / binding type that would work for both track and off track classic skiing?

[@JaredManninen]

Hey Mark, Thanks so much for the question. I should make a separate video talking about this specific topic because I'm asked the question frequently. That said, you kind of run into a related problem (covered in this video) when trying to pulling double duty with the binding system. Essentially, xc ski bindings designed for groomed trail use (track and skate skis) are generally considered to be light duty bindings, whereas NNN BC and basic 3-pin bindings (for use on off-track/backcountry xc skis) are more robust and can handle more pressure. So, if you were to put a standard NNN (groomer-oriented) binding on a wide off-track ski, chances are that it's not enough binding to withstand the potential pressure you'd place on it during xc skiing off-track and in variable conditions. On the flip side, mounting an NNN BC binding on a track ski is generally considered more binding than you'd need and can potentially hang too far over the edge of a skinny track or skate ski. For a illustrative photo showing the size difference between the bars of an NNN vs. NNN BC scroll down toward the middle of the following article I wrote about xc ski bindings (tahoetrailguide.com/cross-country-skiing-explained-part-5-classic-cross-country-ski-boots/). It's under the section "2) Compatibility of Classic Cross-Country Ski Boots." All of that said, the pair of skis that I'm using in this video (Fischer Spider 62mm) has a standard NNN binding on them, and I'm wearing a classic xc ski boot that I also use with my track skis. So, you can use the same boots/bindings, but I would only use a standard NNN binding on an off-track ski no wider than 70mm. Or, I wouldn't mount an NNN BC binding on a ski any narrower than 55mm. Yes, you can use the same boots for both applications but you're ultimately limiting yourself with regard to ski selection. Hope that helps. Let me know if you have other questions!

[@knyghtryder3599]

This video is great , but more aimed for those already actually skiing,my question is what to start with? Classic ,skate or back country? To be the most versatile and use with less constraints?? To me diamond or angular motion is more natural than the back and forth of classic, but I don't want to invest in sensitive equipment I can only use in certain places , I am in Illinois so large powder snows and Perfectly groomed tracks may not be the norm. Also off topic but was also interested in nordic skates, and was hoping to save money by using the same binding as nordic skis , is this a waste ? Is it more work than it is worth taking bindings off a ski and attaching to a skate? The only reason I came up with this is we have long cold periods without snow and then we have fairly snowy periods, but is changing out bindings just not something most people want to do themselves throughout the year????

[@JaredManninen]

Hey Knyght Ryder, thanks for the comments and questions 🤗 If you're not planning on skiing at groomed xc ski areas, I'd probably consider buying off-track/backcountry xc skis. Skate skiing is best on an actual groomed surface. Because you don't experience super deep snow, you'd probably be fine with an off-track classic ski of no more than 80mm wide. If the snow is right, though, you can definitely skate a little bit on those wider classic skis. Not as efficient or fun as skate skiing on dedicated skate skis at a groomed xc ski resort, but still pretty fun in certain conditions. I occasionally throw in some skate skiing on my wide 112mm backcountry xc skis. As far as ice skating using Nordic bindings, i think that's an accepted practice in the Nordic countries. I assume they permanently mount he bindings and use the same boots for skiing and then ice skating. I could be wrong though. There's a really cool NatGeo video on KZbin showing a Swedish ice skater skating on the thinnest ice on a river. The cracking of the ice makes a bunch of trippy noises. And it looks like the guy has NNN BC xc ski bindings on his skates. Check it out, and then you may find more info based on that video about the use of those bindings on skates. Let me know if you have other questions 🤗

[@JaredManninen]

Here you go... this video kzbin.info/www/bejne/rGSyaqmEnpKXoaM

[@knyghtryder3599]

@@JaredManninen Thank you so much , we are hitting the trails in a couple hours , first time !! Thank you

[@JaredManninen]

You're welcome! Have a great adventure ❄🌲❄

[@WildMidwest1]

@@JaredManninen Thank you so much for your amazing video, and a second thank you for the incredible National Geographic link. Do you think this might be how Snowshoe Thompson and other Norwegians used their single ski pole, i.e., for ice-skiing? It would connect some historical dots.

[@deltafour1212]

I got bit hard by the XC sking bug from your videos. I want to do Off -Track and make my own trails. Do they make a short wide XC ski like the Altai Hok ski minus the skins and where you can wear regular boot or shoe like you can in universal bindings ?

[@JaredManninen]

Thanks for watching, and for the kind words :) Glad I can provide some inspiration to get out there, too! A number of years back I did see a set of ski/snowshoes that were similar to the Altai Hoks, but with a fishscale style grip zone instead of the skins. I'm sure if you looked around you'd be able to find a set. They had the universal type of binding for regular boots. All of that said, I have very limited experience with that style of ski/snowshoe. Mostly, I just stick with backcountry/off-track cross country skis. I don't know the type of terrain that you have access to, but where I ski I have open space as well as forested aspects of the mountains. Basically, I have enough open terrain that I don't need anything super short. So, those xc skis are fine for me. But I can see the appeal of the Altai style skis, particularly in dense forest. I also like the camber of the backcountry xc skis because it enables me to perform classic technique/diagonal stride. And, because the xc skis are longer and straighter, they track straighter and glide a lot easier. Anyway, I wish I could be more helpful by remembering the brand but it's been a lot time since last I saw them. Thanks again for tuning in. Let me know if you have other questions!

[@deltafour1212]

@@JaredManninen Do they make short backcountry XC skis for sking in dense woods like I have here? I was thinking of getting back country kid skis to serve my purpose. what's your opinion on that idea? Also, do you really need skins when climbing small hills or just using good technique like herringbone to climb hill and side stepping?

[@JaredManninen]

@@deltafour1212 I haven't seen any super short backcountry xc skis. Generally, the shortest I've seen are around 165cm long. But those are usually designed for a 120lbs person or lighter. The lengths are designed with a specific weight range in mind, so it wouldn't really be beneficial to try and get that shortest length (particularly if you were way heavier than the recommended weight range). The length of the ski is based on how much weight it could reasonably bear without dragging the scales too much, as well as to remain buoyant in deeper snow. As far as skins go, I don't particularly like them. I find that they're too grabby and lurchy in way too many scenarios, which makes them effectively unpredictable. And I do not like that feeling at all when I'm in the backcountry. A lot of people love them. I do not. I just like the standard fishscale patterns that come on most backcountry xc skis. I agree that the scales drag a bit and they're relatively loud as a result. But I've never had issues of coming to abrupt stops with scales like I've had on various skin-based xc skis. I also find that turning going downhill is a bit easier with scales versus skins. The scales just don't have the lateral resistance like the skins do. I've seen people do some amazing downhilling turns with the Hoks, but those examples were usually when the snow was deep and the terrain was steep. When the snow is consolidated and firm, however, I've always found skins to be lurchy especially on lower angle terrain. Not my idea of a fun time. That's why I like cross-country skis ... they enable me to move fluidly up and downhill without having to deal with putting on or taking off skins, or the lurchiness inherent with skins (because they do provide so much grip). All of that said, I usually don't go looking for the steepest terrain that I can find. As far as climbing technique goes, yeah, I use the herringbone and side-step in steeper terrain. That said, I won't travel the same line uphill as someone on Alpine Touring skis with full skins, for example. I'll have to do more lower angle traverses in order to reach the same point higher up. But, again, I seldom go where AT skiers are going when I'm on xc skis. Instead, I tend to choose gentler lines and opt for having fun on lower angle terrain and covering more distance in a shorter time. I'm 47, after all, so I'm not out trying to win any competitions or wreck myself :)

[@deltafour1212]

@@JaredManninen My intuition was correct then. Being I have no experience in XC and basing it solely on watching skiing video's, I didn't know if my assumptions were correct. With your experience and knowledge I am now able make decisions on what I am looking for based on what you said. . Thank you!

[@JaredManninen]

@@deltafour1212 You're very welcome! I'm glad I could be of service :)

[@MsSupaflyguy]

Great video. Just what I was looking for. Will the boots and poles you use for track skiing be the same as what you would use for ungroomed backcountry skiing? Point being if I buy two sets of skis for both purposes can I use same boots and poles for both? Thanks!!

[@JaredManninen]

Hey Andrew, Thanks so much for the question and positive feedback :) The only way you'll be able to use the same boots for both skis is if you use the same type of binding for both skis. The problem lies in the fact that if you want a stronger binding for off-track/backcountry use, you will not be able to wear the same boots for track and off-track xc skiing. Generally, track skis are best served with a standard NNN (or NNN style/compatible binding such as Salomon's Prolink). And, this binding is often too small for backcountry use, hence the popularity of the NNN BC (backcountry binding) or even a 3-pin style of binding (with or without cables). Here's an article I wrote specifically showing different types of xc ski bindings: tahoetrailguide.com/cross-country-skiing-explained-part-4-classic-cross-country-ski-bindings/ So, the long and the short of it is if you're going to buy two different sets of skis (for track use and in the backcountry), I generally recommend using an NNN binding for the track skis and the NNN BC for off-track (the boots are more robust as well with a modicum of upper ankle support compared to standard track or touring boots). Here's an article I wrote about xc ski boots: tahoetrailguide.com/cross-country-skiing-explained-part-5-classic-cross-country-ski-boots/ And, big surprise, it's often better to have a separate set of backcountry-oriented ski poles. I have some fixed length aluminum poles with larger baskets than typical track ski poles (with tiny baskets). I also use an assortment of collapsible aluminum ski poles with large baskets. And, this article is about classic xc ski poles: tahoetrailguide.com/cross-country-skiing-explained-part-6-classic-cross-country-ski-poles/ Anyway, all of those articles at my website (Tahoe Trail Guide) go into greater depth about some of the pros/cons regarding each component. But all the articles feature an assortment of track and off-track related gear, so that might give you a better idea of what I'm recommending. Thanks again for the question, and let me know if you have any others :)

[@johnnygunz2300]

Wait people actually have less than 5 ski sets? Ha ha I got bit by the Telemark / bcx / classic ski

[@JaredManninen]

Haha! That's funny, Johnny :) Yeah, gear lust always gets the best of us!

[@BrookCobaugh]

My 62s torpedo in powder. It’s fine on my way back to the car using the tracks I laid on the way in!! The question is, do I absolutely need to buy BC boots for my backcountry skis?

[@BrookCobaugh]

Saw you answered this in the comments below. Once you’re hooked the gear bill keeps going up!

[@JaredManninen]

Haha. Yeah, gear lust gets the best of us :)

[@JaredManninen]

Thanks for the questions/comments, Brook! I've been known to lay my own tracks and just do laps on those homemade tracks (particularly when my skis are too skinny for the conditions!). I saw your other comment regarding my other comment. I try to be thorough with most of my replies so that other people can learn from them. So, thanks for using that one as a resource :) But as far as using actual BC boots goes... I have a couple different pairs with various levels of support to them, but I'll often choose the softest one that I can get away with. Why? So I can just wear that pair to the trailhead (i.e. still safely operate the clutch and gas/brakes) and save myself the hassle of changing footwear. haha. If I know I'll be xc skiing more demanding terrain, I'll use a more sturdy boot, though.

[@johnnygunz2300]

@@JaredManninen ha ha me too!!! I find driving my manual Toyota Tacoma with fischer bcx 675 "doable"... Asolo extremes "ok", scarpa t2's "no bueno". Three pin duck bills are sketchy while driving

[@JaredManninen]

@@johnnygunz2300 Indeed. I usually use my lightest weight NNN BC boots (super soft Fischers) to drive my Jeep (manual as well), but I won't even try my BCX6s or 675s :)

[@irishkitty7257]

Jared, I’m 6’1, 220. I just want to buy a pair to use every now and then to use in my backyard trail or at Spooner Lake. Any sizes you would recommend. I normally snow board and ski, so this would be my third option. I also snow shoe (saw your video).

[@JaredManninen]

Hey Mike, you'd probably be fine with any of the more popular xc ski manufacturers' (Fischer, Rossignol, Salomon, Madshus...) versions of off-track/backcountry skis. It seems to me that both Fischer and Rossignol have a great selection ranging in size and width. For you, you'd want one of the longer versions. They often make the off-track xc skis in 3-4 different lengths. You'd most likely want one that's around 189cm or longer. They all have specific weight recommendations, so go by what the manufacturer suggests. As far as width goes, I'd recommend something between 75-95mm (tip width) for an all-around decent off-track xc ski. Wider skis (95+mm) are great for deeper snow, but they can be frustrating to run on firm conditions. And skinnier off-track skis (less than 75mm wide) are fine in firm conditions but not super helpful in deep snow. I believe REI, Backcountry.com, and other prominent online outdoors stores sell decent selections of off-track xc skis. Fischer's S-bound and Rossi's BC xc skis seem to be widely available. Let me know if you have other questions!

[@irishkitty7257]

Thank you for responding so quickly. Can’t wait to meet you in Tahoe.

[@JaredManninen]

@@irishkitty7257 No prob. Been at the computer most of the day :) And, I look forward to meeting you too!

[@JaredManninen]

@@irishkitty7257 No prob. Been at the computer most of the day :) And, I look forward to meeting you too!

[@mariachaderina3293]

Hey Jared! great video, thank you! If I may - I have a question about going downhill on an ungroomed narrow path. I am ok with my classic technique on groomed trails (I grew up in Russia, that was part of my PE in middle school). But in Oregon I started venturing into ungroomed trails on XC for the first time in my life and I must say I am lost. I rented some 60ish mm wide skies with metal edges. And I had really hard time controlling my speed on descents. I went to a designated cross-country skiing trail in a snow park (Golden lake park). The path was so narrow that I could not really properly plough. Is there something I am missing? How do people ski down steep narrow ungroomed XC trails? any tips would be super appreciated!! (i.e. wrong skies? hike down? )

[@JaredManninen]

Hey Maria, Thanks for the question! But that's a new one for me. Ha Ha. I can't recall a time that I've been on such a narrow xc ski trail. Either I ski at a full groomed resort with classic tracks and a skate lane or in the backcountry where everything is wide open (depending on terrain, of course). That said, the first thing I thought of when you described the narrow trail was to do a half snow plow (just like if you kept one ski in the tracks and the other out to snow plow). Using only one ski to plow might provide a better angled ski on which to stop. I don't know how narrow the trail was, so I couldn't say for sure, but I'm sure you could probably get a better angle from the one ski to help slow you down (as opposed to trying and stop with both skis). I don't know if you do any type of parallel turns, but if you did you might be able to use the curves in the trail to shave off some speed. Lastly, I'd probably (if possible) ski off trail on more favorable lines to check my speed. Obviously this depends on trees and other natural obstacles. But I'll often take low and lazy/long angles down steeper terrain when the conditions aren't favorable. That's about all I can think of at the moment. Again, I haven't personally run into the types of xc ski trails that you describe. Mostly things are wide open here in my little corner of the Sierra Nevada. And, obviously, it would be worth asking other xc skiers who use the trail to see what they do. Let me know if any of that helps. I'd be curious to hear about your future experiences 🤗

[@mariachaderina3293]

@@JaredManninen thank you so much for the speedy reply and great tips! I will definitely try half plough next time. I do alpine so I could have tried parallel turns, but my issue was that the snow depth was so high that it created a great deal of height difference between the narrow tracks and the off track around it that I could not really turn. But I did try to just cut the snow on the side with the tails of my skies to slow myself... not very comfortable. I might try to stick one leg deep in powder and the other to keep on tracks next time. Oh and yes, I will try to ask the locals for tips:) Take care and thank you!

[@JaredManninen]

No problem, Maria 👍 Definitely use that deeper snow on the edge of the trail. For whatever reason I was envisioning an icy luge track type of a trail flanked by dense forest (i.e. nowhere to go but down!). Ha Ha. But now that you mention the variation of depth between trail and side, I've skied that type of thing often. Watch my New Year's Eve (day) VLOG for some POV examples. Basically, I was skiing down some deeper snowmobile tracks that were just wide enough to fit my skis. To slow down I would come out of the tracks onto the softer snow and throw in a couple of turns. Then, I'd drop back into the tracks. I also (in those situations) put one ski in the deep snow to help slow me down. If a tight turn is coming and the terrain is favorable, I'll cut the turn to go through the deep snow to slow me down, then link back up with the tracks. The bottom line is that when there's deep, soft snow flanking the trail, use it to help slow you down. If everything is straight ice (tracks and side of trail), on the other hand, go snowshoeing instead 😉

[@mariachaderina3293]

@@JaredManninen snowshoeing is indeed a great fall back option!:)

[@JaredManninen]

@@mariachaderina3293 Indeed :)

[@8Margaritta8]

Hi! May I ask for an expert opinion : which NNN binding would you recommend for fischer country crown? ( not BCX as it needs special boots) I have common NNN boots

[@JaredManninen]

No problem, Oggy! As I recall, the Fischer Country Crown are just over 60mm wide (I think?), so you could use a standard NNN binding on it as opposed to the NNN BC. I don't have any specific brand or style of NNN binding that I would recommend. I find that they're all equally good to one degree or another. But I would consider a manual style versus auto binding. Manual bindings, in general, provide a little bit stronger connection (i.e. you're not going to pop out like you might in a spring-loaded auto binding). That said, I've never personally popped out of an auto-binding. Because there's no fused quick-mount plate on those Country Crowns, you'll have to get a screw on binding with the skis, but that would be appropriate for that style of ski as you'll most likely be putting more pressure on the binding while skiing off-track. I personally like a binding that simply flips up and down rather than the newer (more track-oriented) twist bindings. Hope that helps. Let me know if you have anymore questions!

[@8Margaritta8]

@@JaredManninen Thanks a lot for your respond 😀 So far I tend to install Salomon prolink access cl binding ( wide and stable base ). ... And thanks for confirming my guess, that manual ones are better. ..Although there is one “ but” - they are too stiff ( flexor is 85 against 40 in Rottefella classical model) ... Is it an essential obstacle, what do you think ? BTW Salomon prolink access sk is even 100 ( this model is more popular and easy to buy in our city) , cl I’ ll have to order.

[@8Margaritta8]

@@JaredManninen Side cut is 57-52-54 . Fischer wrote 60-52-57, but this is not true😄 I don’ t know how they measured

[@JaredManninen]

@@8Margaritta8 I've found that the actual manufacturers of the skis are the worst for keeping their information accurate on their website. In fact, I rarely find that sidecut or width information on their websites and often end up looking at REI's description (and other retailers of the skis). Not sure why it's such an issue. haha. But a standard NNN will work just fine on those 57-52-54 Country Crowns :)

[@JaredManninen]

@@8Margaritta8 Sorry, I guess I missed this comment. You bring up some pretty detailed binding bumper info/questions. haha. Honestly, I've just used whatever bumper is included with the binding and haven't really considered the stiffness too much. I will say, though, that a softer bumper allows a more natural foot/ankle flex when diagonal striding. Too stiff of a bumper transfers too much movement to the ski or, rather, it doesn't allow the ski to naturally rest/hang while the push-off leg is in the recovery/trailing position. I believe a stiffer bumper is more beneficial when skate skiing as it keeps the ski from swinging too wildly after push-off. In classic skiing, since the ski is hanging vertically (rather than at more of angle when skating), a soft bumper is appropriate. Not sure if that answers your question, but that's all I can come up with :)

[@faintscrawl]

Can you use the same boots with your different width skis?

[@JaredManninen]

Hey Tom, Thanks for the question! Technically you can use the same boots so long as your two sets of skis have the same type of binding. However, a lot of larger/wider off-track cross-country skis are better served with the larger NNN BC (backcountry) binding. You wouldn't normally put that NNN BC binding on a track ski because it's generally considered to be more binding than a track ski would need. For track skis you'd probably use an NNN or NNN compatible binding (smaller bar than the NNN BC) or another light duty binding such as SNS Pilot or SNS Profil. So, by the same rationale, you wouldn't normally put the smaller NNN binding on an off-track/backcountry cross-country ski. So, technically you could use the same binding/boot system for both skis but it wouldn't be an ideal situation for one of those sets of skis. I do have a standard NNN binding mounted to one of my 62mm off-track skis, but that's as big of a ski as I'd go with that NNN binding. And that ski is not very big. It's the one I'm using in the video (with my red jacket). Unfortunately, it often happens that once you start to get more invested in an activity you tend to acquire more specific gear. Cross-country skiing is the same in this respect. Anyway, thanks again for the question. Let me know if you have more!

[@thestcroixkid]

Outback 68's...jm2c...

[@JaredManninen]

The Outback 68s are a nice all-around option. However, they're a bit wide to fit in groomed tracks.

[@thestcroixkid]

@Jared Manninen are 70mm tracks not standard? Are they narrower at the resort, I ski 68s on Tug Hill and don't even get squawked at by the purists...lol.

[@JaredManninen]

Yes, 70mm is the standard but 2mm doesn't leave much room for error 😆 Depending on snow conditions and twists and turns in the tracks, I'd be concerned about the skis either pinching in the tracks or coming out of them altogether. But if that's not been your experience, that's great. It's just such a small margin of error, that I wouldn't necessarily recommend everyone go that route. But, obviously based on your experience it's a possibility.

[@tidorazz4462]

So basically wider skiis for powder. .

[@JaredManninen]

Pretty much. But so many people ask about and are looking for that magical set of xc skis that work in classic tracks and still provide good performance in a backcountry environment ☺

[@nikodc2008]

Dude, the whole point of getting a set of skis for both is all about compromise. Harping on how one should really have separate sets of skis for groom and off piste skiing is not helpful. You spent more timing harping on that than talking about, if God forbid someone commit the sinful error getting one pair of skis, which skis might best suit the desire of only having one set of skis. Sure, mention it once that it's best to have multiple pairs of skis, but then move on and share which skis do it best. It's like, you city folk who come up to the mountains once a year should really get snow tires, but odds are they, are more likely to go for an all weather/season tire, so just tell them which all whether/season tire is best. We all know all season tires are not as good in winter as snow tires and not as good on warm dry roads as an uncompromised performance tire. That's why there is an tire option for the compromising person, because for whatever reason, it doesn't make sense for them to get both. Usually this relates to money. Or title the video, "why not to get one set of skis for both..." And then those of us looking for a set of skis to do both can move on and keep looking elsewhere for the info we are looking for.

[@nikodc2008]

Anyhow, it's just frustrating and disappointing when someone as knowledgeable and wise about this world of skiing outs out such a minimally helpful video. There's really not much good info readily available about nordic touring, it would be nice if someone like you did a better job of covering the basics and getting some helpful info out there for people. I'm a huge fan of the nordic touring and wish it took over xc skiing, which, as a former racer, I think is really lousy for beginners, and doing the industry a real disservice. If more places rented wider, slower, and more stable and easily controledskis to beginners, newbies would probably enjoy it much more.

[@nikodc2008]

I watched my poor sister in law try it out, she's athletic, smart, and very capable. And she wiped out hard on some low key track. I thought, if only she was on. Nordic touring setup, she probably would have been fine. For this same reason, I recently convinced my 80 year old mother to switch from xc to a nordic touring setup. She's been xc skiing her whole life. She just loves going for a stroll in the woods and doesn't need a high performance xc ski. She just needs something better and a little more fun than a snow shoe. She loves her nordic touring setup, says it's changed her life. I feel better because I know she's less likely to fall, which at her age carries much more risk than when she was younger.

[@nikodc2008]

I just wish there was better information tha covered the basics of what nordic touring is and what gear is good for on piste, off piste, or that middle ground of both. I'm trying to spread the gospel of nordic touring and I wish it was easier.

[@JaredManninen]

I have no idea what you're going on about, here. The majority of what I xc ski is some form of "touring." In fact, most of the videos that I produce I do so while on a ski tour. I'm probably one of only 10 people on KZbin actively creating new cross-country ski content. I also produce all of my videos free of charge to you and everyone else in the world (who has access to KZbin). So, don't come to my channel talking smack to me about how you're disappointed about this, that, and the other thing. That's your disappointment, not mine. Overwhelmingly, people appreciate the information that I share, as well as my honesty and effort. If you want to be some sort of self-proclaimed Nordic Messiah, go make your own videos.

[@bruceborawski5471]

@@nikodc2008 u