C&L 76mm vs Stock 55mm Fox MAF

[@anthonymazzola767]

A 73mm C&L was on of the most noticeable power gains in my 92 5.0 aside from my 4.10 gears. That was with stock intake and TB.

[@clintd1]

One problem with running a "Calibrated housing" for larger injectors without any tuning is it throws off the load scaling in the ECM, so it will be using different tables for timing and AFR than optimal. But now in 2023 very few people are still tuning the stock ECU and are using Holley or Megasquirt stand alone EFI systems that are mostly speed density.

[@dragradialperformance3540]

That's exactly right, Clinton! The bigger you "calibrate" the injector for, the bigger the load calculation error is. The ideal situation is to program the PCM for whatever MAF and injectors you're really running, and not to oversize the MAF by running a big injector calibration. Calibrated MAFs and nothing more than regular MAFs that are oversized by the same percentage your injector is oversized by. Note... The fox body does not use spark based load tables at WOT, so a calibrated MAF doesn't affect full throttle spark on those, or anything above about 2/3 throttle. However it does affect part throttle spark, so any MAF calibrated for about 30# and up starts to cause some part throttle driveability issues.

[@topgama6622]

Hi damn you know so much👍🏻 Can you help me out i need to buy a maf for my 2001 ford mustang svt cobra? Stock 24lb injectors and have bbk cold air, bbk throttle body, and light head ported.

[@dragradialperformance3540]

Sure, reach out to me at [e-mail]. The answers I have might surprise you.

[@PANTYEATR1]

that was my issue while building my 427...i wanted to use a 90mm intake, MAF and throttle body on the SN95 architecture, but finding a 90mm TB was the challenge and i didn't want to use a Fox version. i think i have the 75mm (bar) MAF housing...i will look into getting that C&L 76mm.

[@brianspangler3771]

Did C&L ever make mass air flow sensors for the 96-98 cobra?

[@dragradialperformance3540]

C&L offered the 80mm MAF housing for the 96-98 Cobra. It came with a black tube for stock 24# injectors, clear tube for a supercharged kit, purple tube for 30# injectors (in a Cobra), and a red tube for 36/38 lb injectors (again, for a Cobra). The 76mm did not get offered for the 96-98 Cobra.

[@brianspangler3771]

@dragradialperformance3540 I appreciate that info. I have a 98 cobra that had a c&l mass air flow sensor and wasn't sure what size it was or if it was for the 24# injectors. Sure enough it has the black tube inside for the stock injectors.

[@dragradialperformance3540]

@@brianspangler3771make sure it's the 80mm housing, not the 73 or 76.

[@brianspangler3771]

@dragradialperformance3540 It is. I took it off and measured it. It's a good piece too. I've had it tuned twice after an imrc delete and a cold air intake. It made 286 rwhp after the imrc delete and then 299 after a JLT cold air intake swap.

[@cbcb2960]

E303 /gt40p heads/cobra upper n lower intake/ 19# injectors/ calibrated bbk maf b&m trans/410 gears is my setup on rebuilt 302... I have a 76mm tb what should I do about injector /maf for my setup...

[@refugiorod]

I installed the 70mm from a crown victoria into my 1987 f150 and all I can say is wow!

[@dragradialperformance3540]

Hey be careful doing that. The MAF calibrations are not that similar. You're waking it up by leaning it out, but if you lean it out too far, you can damage the engine.

[@refugiorod]

@@dragradialperformance3540 It's actually running great. Afr reads around 13.5 to 14.1 and my Afr reads around 13.5 on the highway. My speed went pass 85mph on overdrive without issues. I went salvage yard except for the msd box, wires and plugs. I also upgraded to ev6 19# injectors from the salvage yard.

[@dragradialperformance3540]

@@refugiorod That's not great. It should be around 12.5 at WOT and sweeping between 14.2 and 15.2 (averaging 14.7 or so) at idle and part throttle. Those junkyard injectors should be programmed for too. The main idea here is that the car may run "fine" without tuning these things, but that's because air/fuel ratio is fairly forgiving, and because the O2 sensors are helping your engine cope with an incorrect AFR. If you want to see how it really is running, disconnect the battery, remove the O2 sensors and block the bungs off, reconnect the battery, and test drive it.

[@02autogt]

What kind of MAF conversion is on that 87 F150??? F150's didn't get MAF until 1994...

[@smallfry0764]

Hello sir, would the 76mm maf from c&l work with a typhoon upper and lower, stock injectors, 70mm throttle body and EGR spacer? Manual car, with stock maf at the moment If I did do the maf, would I benefit from a chip?

[@Pontisteve]

The 76mm C&L MAF housing with a yellow (gold) sample tube will work with the stock 19# injectors. The rest of those mods aren't relative to whether this works. And yes, you would always benefit from a chip, as long as that chip was programmed for your specific MAF and injectors. If I was using a C&L 76mm housing, I would consider using an 8" conical air filter, Ford Racing 24# or 30# injectors, and a custom built chip.

[@mccoyji]

Any idea of the HP gain? I was thinking of getting the c&l 73 with 19 lb. And solid tube.

[@dragradialperformance3540]

That depends on how powerful you motor is. On a stock engine, probably around 10 HP. I would skip the 73mm and buy the 76mm. 76mm = 2.992", so it's as close to a 3" aluminum inlet pipe as you can get. Also, there's more tuning options if you get the 76mm. I can program a chip for any of the 76mm MAFs. I stock the 76mm with any size sample tube you need, and that makes it cost effective since it comes with whatever sample tube you need.

[@rr122608]

Drag Radial Performance My 92 GT is stock and upgraded to a 70mm tb with accel 19lb injectors. Which mass air flow meter should I get and can I use the stock maf sensor? Thanks in advance.

[@mccoyji]

@@rr122608 I have 89 LX 5.0 with 5 speed. 70MM TB, 73MM C&L 19lbs tube, and 19 lbs injectors (Factory). Runs real good. I think it breathes better in the higher revs, but no dyno numbers. Pleanty of power for my uses. : )

[@thatonecouple8291]

lmao i put a fox body maf on my stock tempo

[@tajatheking]

How do I put this on a stock 87 air box that’s about to undergo mass air conversion

[@dragradialperformance3540]

The stock airbox connects to the MAF with a small rubber hump hose with two big spring clamps on factory mass air cars. You could also use a 3.5" silicone coupler instead. We generally prefer to use one of our 8" conical air filters directly bolted onto the C&L 76mm MAF, unless better air filtration is of high importance, like a dusty environment would require. The entrance to the MAF is 3.5" O.D.

[@tajatheking]

Drag Radial Performance thanks, I’m liking the look of the stock air box vs the aftermarket stuff

[@dragradialperformance3540]

@@tajatheking I think that using the stock airbox with a K&N panel air filter, and removing the air silencer/baffle is not a bad way to go.

[@refugiorod]

How's your project going. I recently did mine and I'm loving it!

[@tajatheking]

refugiorod I sold it 😔

[@themrfabio2459]

The only air that should be going through that hole is turbocharged air.

[@bryanroupe8646]

So the sensors themselves aren't what calibrated for the injector sizes, it's the flow tune inside the maf ? So to change calibration from say # 19 to #30 I just have to buy a #30 flow tube and drop in it ?

[@Pontisteve]

It's a combination of sensor and airflow. Think of it this way. Maybe the sensor measures an area the size of a 1/2" circle, and decides that that area flows 1 lb/min of air. Then, the manufacturer knows that the rest of the MAF is say 25x the size of the area being measured. So if the area measured flows 1 lb/min, then the total MAF must be flowing 25 lb/min. They adjust this sensor from the factory until it matches this calibration by flowing and adjusting the MAF calibration until it actually measures 25 lb/min of air in comparison to some lab grade sensor that's also measuring the same airflow. So it's the relationship between the sensor and the size of the meter that produces this reading. If we were to change either the sensor's electronic calibration (like Pro-M does), or the air flowing past the sensor's measuring area (like C&L does), either one will affect the calibration of the meter. And both companies will tweak their methods to get the calibration they want. C&L is interesting, because they chose to change the air flowing past the sensor instead of tweaking the electronics. This allows them to keep the stock (and readily available) fox body sensor electronics in place, and just alter airflow past the sensor instead. The first way they do that is by radically enlarging the MAF housing. That 25:1 relationship might now be 35:1, as referenced in the first paragraph. Then to fine tune the MAF to achieve a calibration that attempts to offset the injector size, they use sample tubes with different size holes in them, which restrict air passing across the sensor hotwires. Which changes the sensor readings substantially. Enough to compensate for different size injectors. So all you have to do is buy a $46.95 calibration tube, in order to change a C&L 76mm MAF for 19# injectors into a C&L 76mm MAF for 24# or 30# injectors. There's a sample tube for every common size injector.

[@Pontisteve]

All of these calibrated MAFs are designed to do one thing: Lean out the engine by the same percentage as the larger injectors richened up the engine. Basically, by not telling the computer what injectors you installed, you lied to the computer. And by putting a calibrated MAF on that under-reports airflow by the same percentage as the injectors over-deliver fuel flow, you are lying to the computer again. The idea is that these two lies cancel each other out. Or, instead of relying on calibrated MAFs tricking the computer into not drowning the engine with fuel, you could just install the correct MAF that's capable of measuring the engine's max airflow potential. And install the correct injector that's capable of supplying the engine with enough fuel, while maintaining an 80-85% duty cycle at WOT. And then have me build you a chip that simply tells the computer what MAF and what injector is installed in your engine. No more lies, just quality OEM style EFI calibration. We do need bigger MAFs and injectors. I run "calibrated" MAFs all the time, along with bigger injectors. But I don't choose which MAF by looking at the injector size the engine has. I choose the MAF by how much air I want it to measure. Just like I choose the injector by how much fuel the engine requires. And by telling the PCM the truth about the parts installed, it can accurately control those parts. And the car begins to run much better.

[@bryanroupe8646]

I'm am certainly glad I come across this video. Very good information and will save me money as I need a bigger maf now with my 19# but on down the road I will be going to larger inj. Thank you for the quick response!

[@Pontisteve]

@@bryanroupe8646 the hot ticket here is to use the C&L 76mm MAF, a high flow conical air filter, a 19# yellow sample tube, and whatever Ford Racing injectors you want with a custom tune. The C&L 76 with 19# sample tube has enough airflow measuring range to support well over 425 HP, so (if we are custom tuning) there is rarely a need to put a bigger sample tube in than that. The injectors get sized to the power level. Typically 19's up to 275 gross FWHP, 24's up to 325, or 30's up to 425 HP. I can help you with getting the right (and best) injectors, and a tune/chip. Without a tune, the MAF sample tube must match the injector size. I have all the sample tubes in stock as well. I literally rescued those sample tubes from becoming permanently unavailable once C&L sold out.

[@PANTYEATR1]

@@Pontisteve i co-sign everything said here. all this lying to the computer to force it to work right is a pain. just let the computer know what you got and tune to harmony. that will have it driving like a powerful OEM car.