C64 vs C128 GEOS Comparison

[@ScrapKing73]

I noticed you were using the joystick input. I had a 1351 mouse which made a huge difference. I did homework with it, and it truly was very useful to me! But I wouldn’t have wanted to do it without the 1351 mouse! Thank you for giving me the 1351 for Christmas sometime in the late ‘80s, mom and dad! :-D

[@realchef_tom]

Yeah, I need to come back and revisit now that I have the Tank Mouse since it has a 1351 emulation node.

[@alexshepherd]

@@realchef_tomI’ll be interested to know how you get on with that. I have a real 1351 and can’t get it to work in 80-col mode on my C128. For that reason, plus the fact that not all GEOS apps run in GEOS 128, and the lack of colour in geoPaint, and the slow performance of the 1571, and the crashes, and the boot disk having to be single-sided - I prefer GEOS on the C64 overall :) I also laughed when you increased my eyestrain by choosing that high-contrast white background in your video :P I’ve always liked the default soft grey

[@telengardforever7783]

GEOS128 was a powerhouse during my middle school and high school years. Honestly, I mostly used it to write papers, GeoPublish, and use a few BBS's that made use of the graphical interface that GEOS provided. It was crazy to think that I was able to do everything on my FREE C-128 bundled with GEOS that most people would need a $4k Mac to do.

[@realchef_tom]

I never got to use it full time back in the day. I only knew one person with a C128, but I did get to see it at work. It really is amazing what was capable at the time!

[@lornetyndale7974]

Back in the day GEOS was groundbreaking. Just the fact that you could do a GUI based OS on a 64K 8 bit machine was impressive, and when most other computers offering a similar type of user experience (Mac, Amiga, and Atari ST) were a lot more expensive then a C64 with GEOS it really did a lot. I agree that for any productive use you really did need 2 disk drives or a REU (or both). I can recall using GeoPublish to put out newsletters similar in quality to what you'd get off a Mac running PageMaker, especially if you went to the trouble of printing it on a laser printer (or using the service that Q-Link had where you could upload a Geopublish or other GEOS based file and they'd mail you a copy printed on a laser printer). The fact that it could also do bitmap fonts (and you could buy the fontpack which added a bunch more fonts) at a time when most other systems limited you to the default font that your printer printed was also huge. At a time when the most popular word processors were Paperclip, Speedscript, and EasyScript (all text based) something that was WISYWIG definitely was a leap ahead. GeoCalc (its spreadsheet) was quite functional compared to other spreadsheets of the time (Practicalc and Multiplan being two commonly used on the C64). Add in something like GeoPublish which offered a full desktop publishing environment to easily combine the text (from any of the major word processors) and the graphics (from GeoPaint or other sources), spreadhseets from GeoCalc, plus borders, columns, and other effects, it really became a very useful system. I do agree that if you try to compare it with what is available today then it really doesn't hold up. But just think of what sacrifices you'd need to make if you tried to get Windows, Android, or Linux running on an 8 bit processor with 64K available. Making that comparison GEOS would probably hold up pretty well.

[@realchef_tom]

We had a PC-XT in my house growing up (my dad worked in they called "Office Automation" in those days), and we had a fully text based word processor, no way to know what it would look like until you sent it to print. Eventually we got a copy of The Print Shop as well, which blew my mind! The GEOS WYSIWYG blew my mind! So my only point of comparison was that at the time. Which is why I absolutely love the 80 column GeoWrite, I do use it from time to time. I don't think I saw anything as cool until we got a 386 with Windows years later.

[@madigorfkgoogle9349]

yes and no, the GEOS on C64 is more of a gimmick, the C128 GEOS 2 is a useful OS with GUI, the problem is that a C128+1571 floppy and 80 column monitor was more expensive then Atari 520STFM+SM124, which in turn is on another level when compared to C128. Also the RAM was a limitation to use cases you mentioned above, you really had to have RAM expansion cartridge to do DTP. What I dont remember is if the C128 with 1571 in GEOS could read floppy written on PC, otherwise it was a poor tool for DTP... I do own C128, but dont have working 1571 to test it.

[@diwest1737]

Pairing GEOS128 2.0 with a REU is the ultimate GEOS experience!

[@realchef_tom]

Specifically a REU or any RAM expander? I see GeoRAM clones out there that are easier to get ahold of.

[@AbAb-th5qe]

@@realchef_tom an REU is unobtanium. GeoRAM is much easier to get and still a good improvement. I recently bought a new 2mb NeoRam cart which has battery backup :) It makes a great ram disk and I can use a swiftlink at the same time

[@warpshield]

Man, talk about going back in time. My dad had a C64 and we had GEOS.

[@Lion_McLionhead]

Good reminder of geowrite. It actually drew a pixel for pixel representation of the dot matrix printer. You had to use the navigation widget to scroll from side to side, move the mouse to the side, or cursor between sides. It was a very clever way of representing higher resolutions than the bitmap mode was capable of.

[@TheSulross]

your frustration with GEOS is similar to how I felt about a 128K Mac back in the day, which I solved by soldering in 512K memory chips - them. the Mac GUI desktop OS began to be actually useful. GEOS - sa far as GUI desktops, ran on hardware resource that was too anemic - so it was a curosity item of saying, hey, isn't cool that a GUI desktop can run on a 6502 - but is about as far as it goes

[@realchef_tom]

True. Very true.

[@Wackywoodworks]

Back in the day I had GEOS all running on a C128D, CMD HDD... and A Ram Extention, (sometimes the Final Cartridge III was plugged in instead) Twin Drives, mouse... I had the standard GEOS 128 as well as the GEOS 64 pack, plus business package which had a database, spreadsheet (GEOCalc), and a few other apps like contact manager more fonts etc... and many other apps that ran on GEOS... (including a few games) With all the extra hardware it was totally usable... this was all back around early 90's. And I used it for business. I still have my 128D but no longer have my HDD and or RAM Extentions nor do I have my Copy of GEOS 128 so I understand the pain now... lol

[@realchef_tom]

Oh man. I would kill for a setup like that! And someday I want to add a 128D to the collection, but at the moment I'll work on getting this one back to new.

[@madcommodore]

Like you, I was really interested in GUI operating systems in 84/85 because of all the adverts on TV for the Mac. I ended writing my own Mac Paint clone in Laser Basic on my C64 in 85 (controlled with joystick lol). The cost of a C128 and 1571 was more thna the £400 520ST in 86 so I got one of those.

[@realchef_tom]

I also have a 520ST I need to get working again. I've never used one before, so that will be fun.

[@rpdee7344]

2/16/23 Geos software actually made a Commodore more useful than just playing games with all the add-on programs at reasonable prices for only an 8 bit computer. For me, it was better than MS Windows 3.1 as a desktop to get work done when Geos came out with a Windows version that worked on my Gateway 2000 286/ 16mhz computer and being able to go online to AOL for added files to DL to make Geos more useful. The Commodore turned into an Apple Mac desktop publishing machine without all the costs to get there. I was also able to DL a printer driver to use with my $500 HP Inkjet Deskjet 500 inside of having to use a dot matrix printer. Geos for it time for me was comparable to an IBM 2 computer, but Commodore did more without having to upgrade it without a lot of hardware. and yes 2 disk drives did make life easier before CD/DVD hard drives did come out. It was more of a home computer at a reasonable cost than what else was on the market at the time, till the Amiga series of computers.

[@richboehne4062]

Back in the late 80s I had a C64 and later a C128D. I had both versions of GEOS. Without a doubt GEOS on the 128 was much better especially in 80 column mode. I had a parallel port converter and used a dot matrix printer that had near letter quality mode. I did college papers with it using GeoWrite. The big problem is that while the games for the C64 are still fun to play today, the productivity software that was great in the late 80s has not aged well. What we can do with MS Office anymore trumps anything like GEOS did. So before GEOS on the C64, we had word processing programs that used 40 columns on the screen but printed out in 80 columns on paper. You had to unlearn what you learned on typewriters and not press Return at the end on the line, only at the end of the paragraph. Otherwise you had your text show up on paper on just the left half of the printout. GEOS and other WYSIWYG software at the time was a big step up.

[@realchef_tom]

I'd love to get a 128D to have on my desk.

[@mikekopack6441]

Ram expansion makes a huge difference, a SuperCPU (for either) is also a big help in terms of speed. 1581 drive can make things quite a bit snappy. The ROM option for the 128 is VERY useful as well.

[@realchef_tom]

I am using the 1581 disk image on my Pi1541. I'm looking at the ROM option as well for a future upgrade.

[@josephroth3982]

I had both a 64(first one) and then a 64C(after the old one fried, lol.). I started messing with GEOS right before I bought my first PC. A 486-DX33 with VESA Local Bus, the precursor to AGP. My display at the time was an old 12" green CRT, so it wasn't nice to look at, but I thought it was pretty damn cool for a C64 program.

[@ScrapKing73]

I only had a C64, bit of I’d had a 128 I would have probably preferred crisper 80 column mode over colourful 40 column mode.

[@realchef_tom]

Yeah. I like the crisp 80 column better.

[@markcalhoun9480]

If you have or get the Mega65 you get the ultimate GEOS experience builtin.

[@realchef_tom]

Someday I'll get my hands on a Mega65.

[@johnjoyce]

Me too. If they ever ship it.

[@tizianociollaro9127]

Very interesting, this video. Great! As a kid I had the C64, but the C128 was a computer I wanted to have for its graphics qualities. Its high purchase price and its scarce availability of dedicated software were the main reasons why I had desisted from buying. The Geos was in the 80s (but even now) something extraordinary on a machine like the C64, and to see that today, thanks also to the combination of new technology, there are people who use these home computers every day to carry out different uses such as write a letter and print it with an old MPS803, create music with Mssiah or even use google maps with wifi connection, I am fascinated by it.

[@realchef_tom]

I wanted one so much when I was a kid. That's why I'm so obsessed with it now!

[@tizianociollaro9127]

I understand you😁👍

[@8BitNaptime]

As a kid, the idea of GEOS being a good OS or not was lost on me, all I knew is it looked like a Mac, used a mouse, and I could draw pictures with those Mac-like GeoPaint textures. Then I started handing in reports in high school from my home 64 setup and I got a bit more serious. A 1581 and REU made GEOS quite usable. It was great. Other computers were far more expensive. I have to try GEOS 128 one of these days. I have a 128D so it's just my laziness in the way.

[@realchef_tom]

Someday I want a 128D in my collection.

[@stickyfox]

In middle and high school I was allowed to bring a 3x5 card, or sometimes a full page, to exams with formulas on it. My friends and I spent hours putting a whole school year's worth of formulas on an index card with my Okimate 20. Later on I met a friend who had a laser printer and we really took it to the next level. More than one of my teachers added "must be handwritten" to the terms and conditions.

[@realchef_tom]

Nice!

[@jjdigitalvideosolutionsllc5343]

My GEOS set-up back in the day was a C64 with JiffyDOS (which did speed things up significantly) on 1541 & 1581 drives and 512kb REU (I upgraded my 1764), plus the mouse. This was just about as fast as my roommate's b&w mac at universtiy. He was really shocked. The REU made a real difference for GEOS performance. I used Geowriter Workshop a lot. I wanted, but never got, GeoPublish. It'd be nice for modern use if there was a way to print a high quality document to PDF format that could be printed elsewhere. I recall scrolling in geopaint was super fast with the REU. Most of my GEOS stuff went on 1581 disks.

[@realchef_tom]

The REU or GeoRAM keep coming up over and over again. I'll have to get a GeoRAM clone and try again at some point!

[@jjdigitalvideosolutionsllc5343]

@@realchef_tom Regular GEOS will support up to 2MB REU. Retro kit clone activity is great these days. Ramp up your speed with a retro SuperCPU or modern Turbo Chameleon.

[@epremeaux]

Have you tried Novaterm128? I have not, but remember it was excellent on the 64 (that "80 column font" hack was mind blowing)

[@epremeaux]

btw back in the mid 90s, I wrote an 8 page, 2 column rule book for a pen and paper RPG based on Highlander using Geowrite. It was.. um.. a painful experience. And the tractor feed dot matrix print was.. "legible" (or was that LAUGHABLE?) It had a header, page numbers, and even a few crude clipart graphics inserted.

[@realchef_tom]

I haven't used Novaterm, but I'll go look for it!

[@networkg]

If you haven't done this already, invest in a mouster that allows you to use a USB mouse on a whole bunch of retro computers including Atari, Commodore 128, C64 and some others. One adapter to solve all of your retro mouse needs.

[@realchef_tom]

I haven't yet, but thanks for letting me know! I did help kickstart the Amiga Tank Mouse, which the receiver can be set to emulate several types of mice as well.

[@RandomBitzzz]

Loading GEOS 128 with a Pi 1541 robs you of the speed boost provided by the 1571/81 burst mode. I used the 64 version of GEOS way more than the 128 version - but when I finally got a 128 of my own I was blown away by how much better it was with an 80 column screen vs 64's 40 columns.

[@realchef_tom]

That is very true. I'm considering doing option ROM on the motherboard (U31 or U36?) for some speed boost.

[@keyboard_g]

You could try to find a REU expander. Geos knows how to use it.

[@LordHasenpfeffer]

I'm the exact opposite... Software I can do. Hardware, not so much! LOL At first I was going to suggest diving into GEOS programming. That's actually something I never could understand back in the day but as soon as I'm ever able to get back to where I once belonged with my beloved, aging Commodores... I just might try my hand at it again.

[@LordHasenpfeffer]

That old light-gray on dark-grey default "color scheme" sucked on a Commodore 1702 monitor with separate chroma/luma too. It's just a bad choice all the way around. I never could understand why that was chosen as the default. I always went with Blue on White, myself.

[@PixelPipes]

One of Gary Kildall's swansongs. A surprisingly capable OS given the hardware.

[@Karnov1977]

Gary Kildall helped make GEOS? Where did you learn that? He made GEM, Berkeley Softworks made GEOS.

[@HelloKittyFanMan]

"Until I get a cursor that I can move..." ...in GEOS.

[@madigorfkgoogle9349]

Hi Chef, can you run .D71 images on the Pi1541? Or what Im looking for is if you tested/figured out how to load CP/M images as MFM floppy?

[@realchef_tom]

I haven't tried it, and the last update I saw on the Pi1541 GitHub said it was still being worked on. But the SD2IEC seems to have no issues with them.

[@dbranconnier1977]

Commodore should have purchased Berkeley Softworks and released GEOS in cartridge form for the C64 & 128 with the included GeoWrite, GeoPaint and GeoCalc apps

[@realchef_tom]

Agreed! I have considered doing it Option ROM upgrade with it, thought you still need the disk.

[@BasicBitesCA]

7:30 If your machine still has the original RF Modulator, those colourful aberrations running through the screen when you use S-Video capture may be caused by the fact that the chroma signal output by Commodore's "separated video" burns much hotter than the later S-Video standard specified. This is why various S-Video cables and adapters for the C64/128 have a ~300-330 ohm resistor on the chroma wire, because not all modern devices handle it well. If I have a C64 with an original modulator plugged into my S-Video capture device, and do not use the resistor cable, it similarly goes haywire. -- JC

[@realchef_tom]

I don't, I installed a ClearVideo128 in it a while ago. But I will look into that. Or I may just not have it tuned as nicely as I thought since I was just using the TV to tune it.

[@airfixer9461]

Slow processing in Geowrite 2.1 ?.....you should try Geowrite v1.3...every line the screen had to rebuild in order to show you what you just typed...happy happy joy joy....believe me 2.1 was a blessing. Still, Geos was a fantastic OS on C64 & C128 and I still love it..I still use Geoworks Ensemble 1.28 in a vm these days...just for fun 🙂

[@realchef_tom]

I guess I should take a look at that!

[@ScrapKing73]

@@realchef_tom That and the “Wheels” version of GEOS, which are fan-created evolutions of GEOS 64/128!

[@ScrapKing73]

@@realchef_tom Wheels 128 video - kzbin.info/www/bejne/o4HHgH6rj8ilhMU

[@LordHasenpfeffer]

I always liked GEOS128 better for its 80-column full-page-width display, etc... but being an early-adopter / owner of a CMD SuperCPU64 and 16MB CMD RamLink, the *speed* of GEOS 64 + those 2 devices could not be matched by anything GEOS128 had to offer. If I'd ever owned a SuperCPU128, my tune would have changed but I never did so... it is what it is.

[@realchef_tom]

Oh man, all of those are accessories I'm dying to get my hands on.

[@LordHasenpfeffer]

@@realchef_tom I know what you mean! I received my first C64 system in 1988 on loan from a friend "until I didn't need it anymore". I never realized that was the start of an 11 year daily extravaganza with these machines - which forced me to learn the basics I've used since 2000 as the foundation of my Linux-based career. After 24 years, I'm finally finding time and space in my life to get my two C128s and two C64cs back in action. 2 of them aren't working but will again soon. I still have all my original CMD stuff from the 90s... never used it during the downtime but never got rid of it either... and I am SO GLAD today I never did. Everybody kept telling me... "Get rid of that crap! You're never going to use it again. You don't need it." But they were SO WRONG. Because now I'm beginning to use it again and I definitely need it for some cool things I plan to do now in the very near future.

[@vertigoz]

nice font type for GeoWrite

[@danaeckel]

I have a C128, 1581 floppy and REU, also expanded the VDC memory to 64k. I enjoyed Geos for being quite snappy and seems like it could have lots of capabilities. But back in the 80's a Commodore setup was quite expensive and people who wanted something like that opted for Atari ST or Amiga. I would also love to use a good BBS package utilized for Geos 128. As for the C64 version I call that a proof of concept and not very useful.

[@realchef_tom]

The 64k VDC upgrade is on my to-do list!

[@50shadesofbeige88]

Cool!

[@ChristopherDougBrown]

Someone reverse engineered GEOS, then fixed bugs, and made enhancements. It was called Wheels. Windows go up and down. Wheels will take you somewhere.

[@realchef_tom]

Once I have the 128 set back up as my retro daily driver I'll have to look at it!

[@mcd3379]

I share your frustrations........it gives you a GUI but in terms of practicality there are other programs that do things better - i.e. Geowrite 128 is interesting - but it prints out in graphics mode and can't match a word processor like Superscript 128 for speed and functionality in 80 columns. Back in the day I remember toying with it, but then using Superscript 128 to get actually things done more easily and faster. And you are right, mysteriously using an SD2IEC, Geos 64 boots faster than Geos 128.

[@realchef_tom]

I remember a time when I used M$ Word in DOS. I was so excited to see the WYSIWYG on the commodore. Superscript looks like what I remember Word for DOS. It would probably do what I want.

[@mcd3379]

@@realchef_tom You're absolutely right - does look like MS Word for DOS. I think the challenge with GEOS is that it looked great - but for it to be "practical" you needed a lot more above the standard system - i.e.RAM Expansion, second drive etc. But it is amazing what it did with the C64.

[@HelloKittyFanMan]

Haha, "rose-tinted nostalgia glasses"! Yeah, it's too bad GEOS didn't stick to the market a lot stronger, huh? I've still never gotten to use it after all these decades, but a while back I got a box of disks with several copies of it, so sometime here hopefully soon I will hook my 128 or 64 back up and play around with it, finally!

[@jeromekentz6616]

GEOS was really only good for productivity software. I used the heck out of it back-in-the day when I was in high school. Word processing, spread sheets etc.. As a GUI for use on a floppy disk based system just wasn't practical. Had hard disk been more affordable and GEOS software to drive them, that would have been a game changer. I've used GEOS on an Apple IIe with a hard disk and that works pretty well, but back in the late 80s, it too was very expensive. GeoWorks on PCs in the early 90s was a good and decent experience, though Windows 3.1 won that battle.

[@be236]

How did you get Commodore 128's 80-column RBGI output to HDMI monitor?

[@realchef_tom]

It's a RBGtoHDMI adaptor. I did a video on it a while ago. kzbin.info/www/bejne/epaacnWArqaZsK8

[@be236]

@@realchef_tom Ok, I see.. wish it was just a plug-and-play unit (eg, no extra assembly and wiring needed)...

[@dwaynecarroll6098]

Do you happen to have a copy of the Geos spreadsheet app? Would love to see a demo of it!

[@realchef_tom]

I don't think so, but I do love spreadsheets so now I'll have to find it!

[@dwaynecarroll6098]

@@realchef_tom GeoCalc!

[@Lofote]

GEOS 128 in 80col mode just wiped the floor with GEOS 64. So much better. And the font and all display was just so much better. geoFILE 128 and geoCALC 128 were so much more useful. By the way you can boot into GEOS without any keypress, just have the diskette in while resetting or starting up. Or simply type BOOT, no need for that legacy LOAD ,8,1 command :-D

[@realchef_tom]

I really do enjoy the crisper 80 column much better.

[@vertigoz]

Beware of the Amiga, it might be just an Atari in disguise! :P

[@johnsmith1953x]

*I used Geowrite extensively in High School* It was better than the Mac 128k $5,000 computer systems.

[@idreamtin8bits]

Actually did try GeoUTerm now. Good news: it does work in 80 column mode. Bad news: it is very slow and does not support graphics, so not really useful. See comparison video between GeoUTerm in GEOS128 versus UltimateTerm in normal C128 operation. kzbin.info/www/bejne/mnbGZJWrjZiFj7M So keep reading here to see if somebody knows better GEOS128 terminal programs that do support 80 columns and are actually useful.

[@realchef_tom]

I'll take a look at GeoUTerm. Thanks!

[@KennethSorling]

GEOS is really only enjoyable with 2 diskdrives, so that you don't have to swap disks all the time to get back to the desktop. Or, a 1581 drive with an 800 KB disk could hold both the boot files, the desktop, a productivity prgoram such as GeaWrite or GeoPaint, and your work files. And a real gamechanger is a RAM disk, so that reloading the desktop is almost instantaneous. I had a REU (Ram Expansion Unit) with a real time click and a backup battery, so that the computer retained the date and time even when switched off. If and when you get the means, investigate those options.

[@realchef_tom]

Thanks for the advice! I have both a Pi1541 and a SD2IEC, so I could set up a two drive system. The Pi1541 is already set up with a .D81 image, which is definitely a huge help. I used the Pi1541 so I could see what I was changing to when I changed disks, but apparently GEOS doesn't like that. I would love to get my hands on a REU w/RTC and battery someday. I'd even be willing to build one if there were designs somewhere.

[@idreamtin8bits]

Oh, and GEOS definately does not like swapping from a D64 disk to a D81 disk, so when using a Pi1541 or an Ultimate II+ disk, make sure to use either only D64 disk or, preferably, only 1581 disks. In case of the latter, copy all stuff on D64 disks to D81 images with other tools outside GEOS.

[@idreamtin8bits]

On if GEOS is useful: I actually did most of my homework papers back then in GeoWrite, for the time it was the only WYSIWYG solution. Recently discovered that I still have the disks containing those papers, and that all disks are still very readable. So funny to read school reports of the 15 year old yourselves. Now I just enjoy exploring it again.

[@idreamtin8bits]

My setup now demoed in this video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/l4Wnnmdpq71_h6c This video (which is at true speed in the whole video) shows GEOS128 booting from RAM drive on the REU emulation of an UltimateII+ cartridge. That UII+ cartridge also provides the 1581 disk emulation. GEOS boots and works really fast this way.

[@desiv1170]

As someone whose roommate had a Fat Mac (Mac with 512k) and just the one disk drive, I'd say that same applies to the original Mac GUI experience. So GEOS was a great clone of the original Mac experience in that both needed two floppies to not be soul destroying... I can still hear those Mac disk eject sounds in my nightmares... ;-) And I had an Amiga, which actually ran pretty well with 512k and just a single floppy back then.. Just saying... ;-)

[@georgeh6856]

The problem is that you are comparing a GUI from the 1980s to modern day standards. Most word processors at that time were not WYSIWYG and did not have drop-down menus. I recall one program on the Apple II, not sure which, that did not allow lowercase characters. Bank Street Writer would show formatting tags like ULON instead of actual underlined text. pfs:write, I think, used different colored text instead of formatting. Wordstar and Wordperfect were quite popular but you had to learn their Ctrl or Alt formatting options. It was a much different time.

[@realchef_tom]

We had a PC-XT growing up, but nothing in WYSIWYG save The Print Shop. We had a text mode word processor, I think a very early version of MS Word (and I think Lotus 1-2-3 for a spreadsheet?), which is all I had for comparison as a kid. GEOS blew my mind. Just looking at it now, I'd only want to run in 80 column mode, but it's still amazing for when it was around!

[@vcv6560]

I agree, Wordstar on a Kaypro with CTL-Kxx functions. It wasn't much better than Speedscript on a C64 of the time.

[@HelloKittyFanMan]

"Because I remember there being color." What are you saying: you thought the 128 couldn't run GEOS in color?

[@realchef_tom]

I thought it still had color in 80 column mode, but alas it was just in 40 column mode.

[@HelloKittyFanMan]

@@realchef_tom: In GEOS? Oh, I guess you weren't specific enough then.

[@jeffstack4217]

19:40 See, there's you mistake. You CANNOT compare it anything modern, because back then IT WAS what was modern. The contrast will skew your interpretation of what you're looking for. You can go in and use it for what it is. Accept its limitations and get familiarized with what it has to offer and the constraints you're bound by to enjoy it more, or don't. But if you compare anything retro to its modern day counterpart, you're most likely going to be let down. But lets not forget, it's the Retro pioneering that moved the Modern into existence.

[@realchef_tom]

Oh no. I'm extremely appreciative for what was being done at the time. And I think I'll feel a lot less constrained once I get a good setup truly working. I have my TankMouse which can emulate a 1531 and I just need to get the Pi1541 working as a data drive and I think it'll become my retro daily driver again! I just haven't had time to set it all back up since I moved.