Cahokia Field Trip: The Mississippian Culture's First City

[@mchervino]

I’m eager for the interpretative center to reopen. I’m told by the site superintendent it’ll be another year. They don’t really think there were 5 Woodhenges and the post hole at mound 72 isn’t thought to be from a Woodhenge either. When you mention 72, while at the reconstructed woodhenge, 72 over a mile SE of there. All the confirmed henges were right in that area of the reconstructed one.

[@stevendaleschmitt]

I bet there were many, many more henges than the five they have found. These things don't spring from the ground fully formed, they evolve over millenia, just like mounds and pyramids.

[@paulsmith5035]

Was it's population estimated to be greater than cities in Mexico and central America? They are also geographically in North America. Also is there a genetic relationship between the Maya and the five "civilized tribes" of the southern U. S.?

[@turkeeg7644]

I went to school in Illinois. No one mentioned it but an English teacher in passing. Then I became educated on the subject. Illinois indigenous population and history is incredible. The wetlands, which are sadly gone, could support a large population and culture. You see this pattern in the Nile, Mesopotamia,Ankor Wat,etc. Thanks for posting.

[@AncientAmericas]

Marvelous episode! For the record, I'd say that Cahokia and Poverty Point are both equally cool.

[@Katastra_]

I just got done watching your video on this and here we are lol

[@AncientAmericas]

@@Katastra_ thank you!

[@Katastra_]

@@AncientAmericas it's always nice to see a Cahokia get coverage. Growing up in the area you go on at least one field trip to check it out, but generally in elementary school when you have no attention span lol. And then it never comes up again in school with how the curriculum is these days, so it just becomes a thing that is there unless you are interested in pre colonial North American history.

[@JonnoPlays]

The mounds in North America fascinate me to no end. The first time I ever heard of mounds in the United States was on a trip to Chicago and we passed by Saint Louis. I believe it was this location but I'd have to check with my driving partner who actually knew the site and showed it to me along the way. I had no idea any of this existed so it was a huge shock to me at the time. There was also a wood henge though not standing but they had identified the original post structures and labeled the henge. I'm always excited to learn as much as can about these structures because it wasn't taught in my local history classes or national history classes and was completely left out of my traditional education essentially. I grew up in Arkansas so it's not exactly local but we were taught that essentially no civilization existed except plains tribes and it's just not true. Anyway great video and great work as always. I love that you actually go to these sites unlike other basement youtubers.

[@JonnoPlays]

OK this is definitely the location I went to. I checked with my driving partner. Great work and I'm so excited to know more about this place! One thing I'll say about the highway we definitely wouldn't have stopped if the highway didn't go right through it. I know that's lame but it was a family emergency trip. Maybe the highway will bring more attention over time. Still very lame they went right over the top though.

[@missourimongoose8858]

If you wanna check out a unknown mississippian site I made a video on my channel showing one around my families land

[@markmark2080]

Cahokia occupied perhaps the most strategic inland location in all of North America in the days before "modern transportation aids". One can only wonder and marvel at the peoples, traders, and travelers that passed through that "city" or area during the last few millennium, let alone this last one...The journals of the DeSoto expedition are very interesting if one is interested in "the way it was".

[@zenolachance1181]

The journey of Cabeza de Vaca is a fascinating story of a journey from Florida to Mexico City buy Cabeza de Vaca in the 1500's. I actually believe it was before DeSoto. He chronicled all the tribes and the way they lived in his multi-year quest to reach Mexico City. I have the book around here somewhere I will have to look it up

[@thegeorgiacreekwalker491]

Pretty Cool, I paddled my kayak up to the Etowah Indian Mounds here in North Georgia last summer and walked around on them and explored a bit, I’ve been to them when I was younger and the museum but had never accessed them by the river until then, one of dozens and dozens of native fish traps is located right by the mounds where pumpkin vine creek runs into the Etowah River, they sure picked a prime location to build their mounds, alot of Native History here, about 25 years ago a village was unearthed not far from me on the Etowah River here in Cherokee County, they discovered at least 45 graves including that of a small child with a grave full of toys, they did not properly excavate the area and moved the graves to another location so they could build a Walmart, it’s all under pavement and concrete now unfortunately, very cool video, I have alot of family near ST Louis, if I ever get back up that way I plan on visiting the mounds, Thanks For Sharing 👊🏹

[@derekpmoore]

It is the copper plate found at Etowah that gives some of the evidence for the taking of trophy heads being a thing among the Mississippian culture. Picture Cave has paintings similar to Etowah copper plate (warrior taking a trophy head), but Picture Cave represents the Osage branch of the death cult.

[@SunflowerHeather]

I clicked so fast when I saw this! I am unreasonably excited to watch. Happy Sunday

[@JonnoPlays]

I felt the exact same way. It's fascinating to me that we had such large groups of people in North America that I had never heard of in school even though I grew up very near many of these sites.

[@marschlosser4540]

My grandparents, Susquehannocks, talked about them. I was there once and it's awesome.

[@virginiawatson153]

On a visit to St. Louis in the 1960s, I went to Cahokia. Didn't know much about it & I don't recall a visitor's center then. Dug up some wild onion from the top of a mound; it grew in a pot on my balcony in Los Angeles for years. Thank so so much for this lovely educational visit. 😊

[@headlessspaceman5681]

This is such a great video. Thanks for bringing science and archaeology back into the conversation about these site and locations. Please do more of these onsite talks if you have the chance!

[@gentlejones]

great video! this is a trip i plan to make. good to know they are updating the visitor's center.

[@RedBayDog]

Thank you for taking the time that it takes to put up a video... These are Awesome !! Thanks Again...

[@cynthiadugan858]

Thank you! Very much enjoyed seeing a glimpse of that sight with you.

[@Eulemunin]

Every time I am in the area I stop and marvel.

[@gnostic268]

Nice video! I've been to Cahokia many times over the last few decades. My late mother in-law was a member of the Muscogee Creek Nation of Oklahoma but she also had Hitchiti and Natchez ancestors. The tribal headquarters in Okmulgee OK are in a building that looks like a mound so they still hang onto their history. I wasn't aware of the Mound builders civilization until I was educated by some of their descendents. It's fascinating to me as a person from a Plains tribe. We also have Dickson and Kincaid Mounds here in Illinois. Thanks for new information I didn't know yet!

[@whosonfirst1309]

Thank you for doing this, I find it fascinating and informative. Thank you

[@asahelsmith9490]

Visited "Monk's Mound" in late October of 1991. Nobody but me was there when I got to the top. The view is impressive and reminiscent of the temples in the Yucatán. If you wonder why they built Cahokia at that location then you should consider how close the site is to the confluence of the Missouri and Mississippi rivers.

[@jackturner4917]

I've been to the Caddo Mounds in Alto TX. It was underwhelming to say the least. However, this looks impressive and I appreciate the professional insight.

[@jimmcdees1341]

I would love for you to do a detailed video of AZTALON wisconsin the sister city of Cahokia! I've been to both as I have lived in both areas and am up in Wisconsin as we speak!

[@coloradoguy9494]

Great video! I'm heading to St. Louis in May and though I've known about Cahokia for a little bit now, I didn't know exactly where it was located. Thanks for the great info

[@NathanaelFosaaen]

Hopefully the museum is reopened by then!

[@derekpmoore]

When they were excavating the far right corner to repair erosion, they had removed a bunch of soil and piled it up beside the mound. I examined some of the excavated soil and found a piece of blue volcanic rock in it, which is rather out of place for Missouri.

[@LillianArch]

Thank you!

[@cimmerian_savage9736]

if we only had community come together like that these days

[@jackiedaugherty1949]

If you haven’t had the opportunity to check out Angel Mounds just outside of Evansville, IN. it’s worth visiting! Pretty impressive. I visited during the years of excavation.

[@missourimongoose8858]

I made a video on my channel about the mississippian site around my families property if you wanna take a look, its a huge rock bluff with paintings on it and there are 2 filled in caves

[@NathanaelFosaaen]

Cool!

[@missourimongoose8858]

@@NathanaelFosaaen is there any kind of native American site registry that a person can call when they know of a native American site? I've tried contacting folks about a mississippian site but so far only a missouria tribe historian has answered back and will hopefully come check it out, seems like alot of native American history is being lost just due to folks not knowing what to do other than keep the site secret

[@NathanaelFosaaen]

@@missourimongoose8858 mostateparks.com/page/84236/archaeological-survey-and-site-recording

[@headlessspaceman5681]

@@missourimongoose8858 No, actually a lot of Native American history is being lost because of active, malicious, destruction motivated by greed and racism: illegal digging and legal (on private land) looting and destruction of sites in the USA is commonplace. "Not knowing what to do" when someone finds an archaeological site is only part of the problem. The other part of the problem is that bad actors & scumbags know exactly what to do, and they don't get in trouble for it. You're probably right that the average American doesn't know how to report an archaeological site but WHY don't people know what to do? This is a great question. There's dozens of TV shows of people in the US digging up stuff or talking about ancient Native American stuff but they are actually teaching you nothing or less than nothing, meaning you are dumber for having watched it. How do you report Native American sites? To a state museum, or to a local or state University. Seems pretty obvious! But they never do this in TV shows instead they get the shovels and start right off with the looting and stealing.

[@samuelmingo5090]

Enjoyed the field trip!

[@AdeebaZamaan]

Can you make Cahokia older? I really want to tell Zahi Hawas that if his pyramids date from Khufu I have older, bigger ones in my back yard! In the 80s after post holes were discovered at Cahokia, I went with friends to celebrate the Winter Solstice Sunrise there. Wood posts had been put up and the Sun came up right where it was supposed to. I've visited since but I'm always skeptical of interpretations (thus the desire to top Zahi). I came to STL for college and never left, but I, too, grew up in Arkansas, and I too list to starboard, so maybe my Arkansas joke won't offend you? Q: Why do Arkansans walk like this? A: Because Ozarks, Bostons, Ouachitas: we have to walk sideways to get to the top! Discovered your channel a few months ago and look forward to watching much more! Thank you for all that work. ❤

[@pointsnpoles4640]

Thanks for this....I believe there are some sizable mounds about 15 miles north of me...I'm on the Missouri side of the river in Lincoln County Missouri...there are some amazing ones on top of the bluffs up there

[@missourimongoose8858]

I made a video on my channel about the mississippian site around my families land if you wanna take a look, I'm about 80 miles south of stl

[@pointsnpoles4640]

@@missourimongoose8858 will do....I grew up in ste Genevieve...that doesn't happen to be where you're at is it

[@pointsnpoles4640]

@@missourimongoose8858 just took a look....I can only imagine what's in the dirt under that overhang....I'm willing to bet that was a seasonal camp....would love to be able to look around some stuff like that..I bet that creeks has numerous artifacts

[@missourimongoose8858]

@@pointsnpoles4640 no but your close, I'm from Fredericktown lol

[@missourimongoose8858]

@@pointsnpoles4640 we were told it's a shrine to the underwater panther God and possibly a burial site but no one has dug anything up because we all kinda came to an agreement that if it is to be dug up then it needs to be recorded by professionals, native American history is important and we have lost to much to secrecy in my opinion but i do walk the creeks, rivers and corn fields to find stuff and I get lucky sometimes

[@davidrosenzweig1380]

Lived 15 minutes from it my whole life

[@derekpmoore]

Dickson Mound a little further into Illinois (Spoon River culture) was a burial mound. I saw the skeletons inside it several times as a kid before they were covered up. Is Mound 72 the only burial mound in Cahokia? I don’t remember if Dickson mound had trophy heads in it (I wasn’t aware of the death cults as a kid), but as a kid it seems like many family groups were buried there. Apparently Mississippians practiced the taking of trophy heads.

[@danielt.3152]

I wish you could have seen Dickson Mounds in 1960’s since then it’s been given a cover but still worth seeing. I have Ben there multiples of times and also Cahokia. As a hunter in Illinois, I can definitely tell you the native Americans could live like kings on wild game including fish,deer,turkeys,small game,and waterfowl. Annually the Illinois and Mississippi rivers flood (less now due to civil engineering) but the backwaters allowed for massive fish weirs that honestly it would be like picking apples to get very large fish e.g. catfish the size of human children. The native Americans could hop in a canoe or dugout and literally paddle from central Illinois to Cahokia. I have done similar it was not that hard, just keep up a pace. There is an example dugout canoe over in Fort Creve Couer it’s not a big exhibit but they have a fine example of a Native American dugout canoe. I think barring a terrible winter with sub zero wind chills that the native Americans could live well off the land, the winter could cause some population declines, but there were bear, buffaloes and elk back then and those could have been used to bolster winter clothing necessary to handle an Illinois winter, when hunting could be fairly miserable experience. The Indians also had duck decoys made from cattail’s reeds that from a distance of a flying duck look similar enough to allow for them to land in decoys some had bands to form a sort of hat so I guess they went subsurface on a landing and then just grabbed their feet and drowned them, then went to the next duck. Sounds like crazy fun but definitely not in an icy lake.

[@watong9232]

I don't know anything I haven't heard about watching your channel, but seeing this has got me wondering.. Are there stratigraphic considerations when excavating a mound like that since the materials were dug from somewhere else and redeposited there? Does it skew the dates or something? I imagine there's a term for when some earlier strata of material is moved to another location such as occurs with earthworks...(?) Or are determinations purely contextual re: the location of objects in relation to former structures, &CE..? Maybe the 800 or so years of the Mississipian culture isn't long enough to pose complicate stratigraphic dating beyond inclusion / exclusion in a sites period of occupation..(?) Also, did they just terraform the surrounding irregularities in typography to source the material for building the mounds thereby creating a flat surface with the mounds placed where they needed them? Or is there evidence that they collected soil & materials nearby and transported them to the mound sites (I'm basically wondering if they would have been using things like wheelbarrows, containers slung over the backs of livestock / beasts of burden for short distances, or wagons and roads)? I just discovered that Europeans wouldn't bring horses to North America until 1520+ (when they also brought disease) so did they even have domesticated oxen or other livestock that could haul soil(?). I was just thinking that if they stripped the nearby soil down to the clay, the surrounding land would look pretty bleak and erode pretty fast, than if they had skimmed a layer of topsoil off everything within a couple square miles or(?). I'll check your channel for other Mississipian content, so if you've already addressed some of my questions there, I'll find it. A positive amidst all the negatives of being isolated during a global pandemic: I'm learning stuff I probably never would have if everything had continued without incident. Thanks for the history / archeology lesson. edit: I rewatched this video and ..much of what I asked was actually addressed in the video. Perhaps the biggest thing I learned here was to not post comments when I hadn't paid close attention the first time.

[@watong9232]

Got even more answers from your last video (which I hadn't seen for some reason) Archaeology 101: Stratigraphy and Spatial Control kzbin.info/www/bejne/r17Cm5ameMqsbJY

[@NathanaelFosaaen]

There's some borrow-pits in the area. Pretty sure there's one near the woodhenge. As for how they were built, the only pack animal was a larger breed of dog. The wheel was never invented in the Americas. We know from excavations at Shiloh Mounds that soils were transported by basketload. There are depositional layers to the mounds. Some of them are built all at once, but the temple mound had several expansions.

[@watong9232]

@@NathanaelFosaaen Thanks very much for your time & info.

[@paulsmith5035]

Was it's population estimated to be greater than cities in Mexico and central America? They are also geographically in North America. Also is there a genetic relationship between the Maya and the five "civilized tribes" of the southern U. S.? In solar panel siting and orientation we use magnetic (compass)north minus 4-5 degrees (called magnetic declination)to determine solar north & south for optimal solar panel alignment.

[@kariannecrysler640]

Is the square/pyramid shape consistent throughout the regions? Are mounds progressively rounding off or being less precise moving northward?

[@trout3212001]

Thanks for the interesting video. The projectile points from Cahokia seem pretty sophisticated. Do you have any thoughts on the techniques used to fabricate them?

[@NathanaelFosaaen]

They're not really that special from a manufacturing standpoint. They're just much more precisely made versions of the Late Woodland/Mississippian Triangular cluster but with some light notching. They were definitely taking the time to give more attention to detail, but it's all doable with basic percussion and pressure flaking techniques. There are some copper pressure flakers that were being used there from what I understand, but that's not necessary.

[@yaboi_zuesz8169]

Could you make a video on your opinion of Brian Foresters work? I’d love to hear your analysis on his theory’s of an earlier history of human civilizations in the America’s!

[@NathanaelFosaaen]

Never heard of him, but apparently he's in a similar circle as Graham Hancock, which is to say he's not credible at all.

[@reesetorwad8346]

👍 Thanks!

[@jackturner4917]

Do you have an opinion on who built the Serpent Mound in Ohio? Seems there are two camps. So interesting.

[@NathanaelFosaaen]

That's a tough one because for earthworks it's really easy for carbon dates to be in secondary context. Without associated artifacts it's hard to say. I could see it going either way.

[@rpullman]

Was there commerce between the Mound Builder settlements along the Mississippi and its tributaries?

[@NathanaelFosaaen]

There were pretty wide exchange networks for sure. Holly leaves were being shipped up from the gulf in particular.

[@missourimongoose8858]

@@NathanaelFosaaen I just got to try "native American tea" for the first time the other day and it's not bad lol

[@missourimongoose8858]

I made a video about a unknown mississippian site around the st Francis River if you wanna take a look on my channel

[@MarkD864]

I've driven through Missouri several times and you can see obvious flat top large mounds from the highway. I have Google Earth shots if interested.

[@MegaElvisd]

Even more important than being near the Mississippi: It's near the confluence of the Mississippi and Missouri Rivers. In theory, travel could have come from as far as the Yellowstone area from the West.

[@ked5081]

hey.my read from 1985. my family was invited to the opening at the detroit institute of arts 1985. ancient art of the american woodland indians. text, brose, brown, penney, lots of photos, dirk bakker. published by harry n. abrams. enjoy

[@zenolachance1181]

What is the actual purpose of a henge? a Stonehenge or a woodhenge? Do they have similar purposes?

[@NathanaelFosaaen]

They mark out the movement of the sun and other astronomical bodies.

[@missourimongoose8858]

It's a clock to know when to plant your crops, we still do the same thing with daylight saving time to a degree

[@ferengiprofiteer9145]

Reckon they may have been for convenient refuge in case of floods? Could they have just been prepping?

[@NathanaelFosaaen]

No.

[@garryrondeau401]

Has ground penetrating radar ever been used on any of these mounds? I would love to find out, what if any, giant skeletons or voids or burial chambers may lie beneath?

[@headlessspaceman5681]

Jesus Garry there used to be giant bones all over the place. Mammoths and mastodons. A lot of these mounds or most of them were destroyed by local Anglo settler colonizers in the 1800s. So of course they contained artifacts and some human burials. Pretty hard to make a hollow chamber or "void" in an earthen mound but not so hard to make one between the ears, just tune in to another episode of Crackpot Archaeology and Ancient Aryans.

[@NathanaelFosaaen]

More magnetometry, but yeah we've done nondestructive survey methods on them.

[@garryrondeau401]

@@headlessspaceman5681 I'm 70 years old and just recently got interested in ancient archeology. Please excuse the void between my ears but no need to be so harsh?

[@NathanaelFosaaen]

Spiro mounds in Oklahoma had Chambers on the inside. Unfortunately those were demolished during the depression by looters.

[@garryrondeau401]

@@NathanaelFosaaen Have any artifacts been found in them and radio carbon dated to determine age? I love your Channel and am a fairly recent subscriber from Manitoba Canada.

[@smokeeater8387]

Damn, I wish I knew you were going. I would have stalked you😂. I’m a fire captain in St.Louis👍🇺🇸

[@thegeorgiacreekwalker491]

Oh no shit, I didn’t know that, I’m subbed to you and watch your videos, Thank You For Your Service Bud👊🇺🇸 I had a couple of nephews in ST Louis but I think they moved away, my Dad was from around Greene county, I got a lot of family up there including 3 sisters, haven’t been up there I’m 23 years and I’ve been through ST Louis on road trips but never stopped and checked it out, if I ever get back up there I’m definitely checking out the mounds, Stay Safe, GL&HH 👊🇺🇸🏹

[@smokeeater8387]

@@thegeorgiacreekwalker491 Thanks brother 👍🇺🇸

[@seekingsomethingshamanic]

i am very inspired by your content my friend, i myself grew up in the kootenai area an i always have been curious of the people before David Thompson and everyone else that settled our area. I have reached out to the state archeologist but i haven't received word back yet, i heard we only have one , i was curious if you had my suggestions for people trying to raise awareness so the kootenai area can get an archeological site started?

[@NathanaelFosaaen]

Have you tried seeing if there's an archaeology society over in Spokane?

[@seekingsomethingshamanic]

@@NathanaelFosaaen no i was going to ask the kootenai native branch over in bonners ferry, but i wasnt sure how to go about everything since i live in montana.

[@benjaminvazquez1243]

I'd start with the local history collection at your public library. They'll probably have some information on local indigenous history, but what they'll definitely have is someone who can point you in the direction of the right people. Local historical societies are usually amazing resources.

[@squatch545]

Any evidence of pottery?

[@NathanaelFosaaen]

Plenty. They used a crushed shell tempered paste.

[@missourimongoose8858]

You should look up the pots that are shaped as heads, there pretty cool

[@mitcho5452]

"This is the tallest pyramid in North America" we both know that's just not true.

[@fleadoggreen9062]

If you have time go to starved rock ?? Is that just a myth ?

[@fluorite1965]

It's the tallest pyramid in North America made of earth there are taller ones made of stone.

[@FacesintheStone]

When were young were taught to be like curious George, and then when we get older and discover mounds that are being destroyed for housing developments they tell us to keep quiet and stop doing what we’re doing. What is archaeology for? I sure as heck no it’s not to help preserve history, perhaps the whole field is just to cover up the fact that America was inhabited by large groups of people before we ever got here. Nathaniel has got me all confused, it seems like he cares but perhaps he’s just another cog in the wheel of covering up our true history.

[@houseofsolomon2440]

I can not wait to visit this site. Amen! 🪵🛖🪵