Cal Fire 'HELCO' Mid Air Collision 6 Aug 2023

[@righthandgo]

Local pilot here. For what it's worth at 6:00 p.m. the sun's pretty high in the sky down here in SoCal and the way the mountains are laid out going through the banning pass shadows shouldn't have been too bad. I fly through the banning pass pretty often. Also the banning airport is very low traffic there is not a lot of action happening over there. I don't know if they had the TFR up at this point but even if it wasn't up there's rarely any traffic in the pattern at Banning. Actually local city council is trying to shut down the airport to build more Amazon warehouses because we all need more of those around here. Would be a real shame as the airport is used for a staging area for some of these fires. Sorry to see this. We had the Bonny fire right nearby where I live Just last week and the air attack guys and gals out of Hemet were relentless. I got some great video of one of the sky cranes filling up at Lake Riverside estates. Real shame and rest in peace to those involved. Appreciate all your updates and information Juan.

[@Rawkstar1960]

Thanks for answering those questions I had in my mind regarding the sun and traffic. I used to do sky watch but in fixed wing, and not in the SoCal corridor. There were three other craft that would be out there at the same time and we had “rules”. We were supposed to communicate our actions to each other over the multicomm freq we had designated but it was a crap shoot on how diligent some were. Juan alludes to “these guys” but in my experience it only takes one to not do what the others think your doing and then all hell breaks loose. RIP.

[@gozgone]

Firstly, my condolences to all of those involved. From my calculations, the Sun at the time of the crash was 10.71° above the horizon.

[@bigdmac33]

Sounds about right for Council mentality. I once successfully stopped our Council building a cemetary right next to a local children's hospice. Go figure!

[@Praise___YaH]

Guys, Salvation is Simple HalleluYAH translates “Praise ye YaH” YaH is The Heavenly Father YaH arrives via the TENT OF MEETING YaH was Who they Crucified for our sins YaH was Crucified on an Almond TREE - Ancient Semitic Cuneiform of Moshe (Moses) - Isa Scroll (The Original Isaiah) Isaiah 42:8 "I am YaH; that is my Name! I will not yield my glory to another or my praise to idols. Isaiah 43:11 I, I am YAH, and there is no other Savior but Me. Isaiah 45:5 I am YaH, and there is none else.

[@patricktucker5388]

Always tragic when crews go out to fight fires but don’t return home, be it on the ground or in the air. My condolences to the families of those who were lost. RIP.

[@JBHRN]

Having flown on sorties with multiple aircraft and having been the on scene command a few times, maintaining the big picture situation awareness is damanding & imperative. (USCG Helo guy) Helicopters do not have great visability above as compared to in front and below. There are also limits on vision cross cockpit and below. If the 407 is the command & control aircraft and below the altitude of S64; is seems like a good way to quickly lose SA. My experience was that vertical separation was the key to deconfliction and diligence of airmanship in making sure you do not exit your altitude block. I would have wanted to be about 1000 feet above the S64. The PIC in the 407 is seated right with the S64 (by looks of it) coming in from above, to the right & behind (shadowed by the hills) The 407 would not be able to see and avoid; and the S64 pilot is on the right side of the aircraft as well and if the 407 is low and at their 10 O'clock that too is not a great position and might be not be visable around the center console that is to the pilots left. There was likely little chance for these flight crews could practice see and avoid in this situation. Deconfliction needed to happen before they left the ground or at least on the radio. Tragic loss for CALFIRE. My thoughts are those lost today. John Hall

[@FlightData101]

Minor correction, the second aircraft was an S61 Skycrane.

[@JBHRN]

@@FlightData101 Noted and corrected... Thanks for pointing that out.

[@johnd.5964]

​@@FlightData101It's an S64. S61 is something different.

[@JBHRN]

@@johnd.5964 Damn rectal cranial inversion.

[@jyanke3546]

THe PIC in the Crane is in the Left seat with Copilot in the right seat.

[@tscott6843]

Thanks for a good first report Juan. RIP those lost. Prayers for families, friends and agencies.

[@GaiusCaesarAugustusGermanicus.]

Brings back vivid memories of a Bambi bucket training flight I was on. We had bucket slung with 60 feet of cable. We went out to scout a suitable drop area for target practice. We chose a sandy patch of land that was surrounded by brush. Well inside that patch of sand was a huge Boulder that blended in well with its immediate surroundings. Our bucket slammed into the side of the Boulder that no one noticed. Luckily the bucket slipped away from the rock but it damn near hit the tail rotor after bouncing off the rock. We landed and unhooked the bucket then placed it inside the aircraft. I vowed to never fly another sling again but my commander talked me into giving it another shot. Two months later I ended up fighting a fire for two days straight after the second helicopter ran into mechanical issues.

[@bryanw.3048]

Thank you for this analysis. Captain Rodriguez has been my best friend for 27 years. Needless to say, all of us who knew him are completely devastated at his loss, and so many of us have been trying to reconcile what happened and why. This is the most information currently available to many of us as the investigation continues. A GOFUNDME has been set up for the families of all involved. Please consider donating. Tim was the most amazing man I’ve ever known, and you won’t be able to find a single person on this earth that ever thought otherwise. Thank you.

[@bigdmac33]

Could you post the GOFUNDME link, please? Deepest condolences to you.

[@Praise___YaH]

Guys, Salvation is Simple HalleluYAH translates “Praise ye YaH” YaH is The Heavenly Father YaH arrives via the TENT OF MEETING YaH was Who they Crucified for our sins YaH was Crucified on an Almond TREE - Ancient Semitic Cuneiform of Moshe (Moses) - Isa Scroll (The Original Isaiah) Isaiah 42:8 "I am YaH; that is my Name! I will not yield my glory to another or my praise to idols. Isaiah 43:11 I, I am YAH, and there is no other Savior but Me. Isaiah 45:5 I am YaH, and there is none else.

[@mad13ee]

I worked with Tim in Ski Patrol when I was a kid. Great guy, and a hard loss.

[@CharMinsky]

Great reporting, I’m grateful for your time.

[@gsdalpha1358]

Saw the news report and was waiting for your video, sir. Condolences to all affected. Tragic! It shouldn't have happened.

[@collinfraser1218]

As a fixed and Rotary pilot who has not done fire duty, my best wishes are always with these responders. Last month crews were sourcing water out of a lake adjacent to my property. Fighting a significant fire known as “ Cameron bluffs “ out of a lake adjacent to my property I found it difficult to witness the seemingly endless turns before compelled to take a break at dusk. Thank you again for your respectful coverage Juan . From Canada, Condolences to all loved ones 😪 ❤❤❤ 🇨🇦

[@TheGospelQuartetParadise]

Rest in peace and condolences to the families of those who didn't survive. Always appreciate the details. I wondered whether smoke had been a factor until you mentioned visual separation.

[@lighty9023]

@@micanro Sure buddy, everything bad that ever happens from now on is because of the "juice". You sure are a bright one

[@geofiggy]

Very sad news JB, especially these folks who are trying to keep us safe. RIP those that passed before us and their friends and family. Thanks for your update. Take care, stay safe and God bless, especially the 3 Fire Fighters. 😢🤟🏼🖖🏼

[@tdkeyes1]

Last evening I was driving back to Orange County on the 10 right as this fire was getting started. The wind was blowing as usual out of the west at an estimated 15+ mph. As I was driving past, judging by the smoke column, it appeared that the house fire was transitioning into a brush fire. The closest fire equipment would have been the Morongo Tribe's. I didn't see any equipment on scene from my perspective on Interstate 10. I was probably 8 miles down the road before I saw County Fire equipment heading east on the freeway, a tank truck and a flat bed with a doser. A couple minutes later a second tank truck was following. For those wondering why there was an aerial response, the area has consistent high winds. Fires here get quickly out of control and have killed many fire fighters. There is a memorial for an air crew killed here many years ago.

[@ericfielding2540]

Very sad news from Cabazon. We had a small brush fire in the San Gabriel mountains very close to Altadena last week and the local LA FD and US Forest Service helicopters started flying air attack very quickly. I am not sure how many they had, but they were flying past our building every minute or so. Between the helicopters and the ground fire crews, they had it contained in less than an hour. This was close to roads so they could reach it quickly. I was glad that the response here was completely without injuries.

[@reginaldwilkins5112]

Flew right over me near Eaton Canyon

[@jeffambrose5244]

We have some very nasty gusts of wind around that area and all that traffic does not help RIP my condolences to the families

[@JimMork]

That is an inherent problem. Unlikely the vicinity will be nice and calm.

[@Yawles]

Thank you for your vigilance and ability to explain. Well done, Mr. Brown.

[@charlesmoore1762]

Nobody does it better! Thank you, Juan.

[@daveskritterkingdom]

Excellent reporting and analysis as always, Juan. I'm retired Cal Fire and I was reporting on this fire on Twitter from the start. I was following flight radar and had great scanner comms at my house. I can't remember if AA310 said the altitudes for incoming aircraft, but that's usually the first thing I hear from them on a fire. When the crash occurred, I didn't hear any radio traffic from 37S or 5AS only AA310 calling it in. The sun was shooting strong down the valley, I have a still image I captured from a firecam, you might want to show the time on your Google Earth map to match the crash time then we can see how the sun was for that spot? I think 37S was blinded on their left side and being above 5AS, so 5AS didn't see 37S because of a blind spot below 37S? We lost some great firefighters, there's a lot of heavy hearts in RRU right now. And it was the night before a meeting was scheduled in SAC about this HELCO program, devastating!

[@PTRRanger951]

I’m in Menifee and grew up driving past Hemet-Ryan when I was a kid on the way to KMart in Hemet since it was the closest shopping store at the time. Long before Walmarts and Target appeared everywhere. Closest Target was Temecula, but KMart was the bargain. It was sad listening to the radio yesterday and hearing the crews head to Ontario in the morning for the services. Being LE, I’ve attended a lot of LE funerals. Never is easy. I wasn’t monitoring anything when it happened but when I saw some posts on Instagram with patches with the morning line on them but no details I had to google to find out what happened and jumped on RVCs incident page, WatchDuty and FlightRadar and my heart sunk. Too close to home. That area is a sore spot for firefighting. It got the full response it did because of the nature of that area and how fast it can take the mountain, just like in 2006 with the Esperanza Fire and the loss of FS Engine 57. That only started like a mile from this one. I remember driving up Gilman Springs when that one was going on.

[@catherinenelson4162]

Tears before you finished your first sentence. My heart to the CalFire crew and the contractor, as well as to the families of those lost. Thank you, Juan, for a report that surely was difficult to do.

[@AdonisHarmon]

Great reporting, I’m grateful for your time.. Condolences to the families and friends of firefighters. .

[@jeffr6280]

As dangerous as this type of flying is, you’d think it would make sense for the command unit at least to have a 2nd pilot observer. The fire crew are managing the attack of the fire, but it would be smart to have a 2nd pilot observer to guard against flying into terrain, obstacles and other aircraft. You simply can’t have enough eyes looking out.

[@skyedog24]

I fully agree with this statement.

[@samwalker3441]

Almost certain that either the Division Chief or Fire Captain was in the front left seat and observing.

[@PTRRanger951]

They had three on the aircraft. So likely had one as an observer and one just handling the coordination. May not of had room for a 4th if the rear was set up with mapping systems, comms and white board for keeping track of the incident.

[@silmarian]

The loss of the firefighters is bad enough, but I really feel for the surviving pilot who has to live with the survivors guilt on top of grieving for his colleagues and friends regardless of who is at fault.

[@steveturner3999]

This hits close to home. Used to fly in a 407 on a regular basis. Love that bird! The fact that they collided with an Erickson Skycrane is a sad tragedy. R.I.P. to those lost and prayers to their families. Thanks Juan.

[@8literbeater]

It was not an Erickson. It was a Siller.

[@steveturner3999]

@@8literbeater I knew the colors were different but I didn’t check to be sure. Thanks for the correction.

[@marynimocks6791]

Thank you for your stunningly clear sharing!

[@erwinschmidt7265]

Juan - DANG!!! This was one of those times Pilots needed eyes in back of their heads and on both elbows too!! Condolences to families that lost their loved ones........

[@vikinghog]

Thank you once again. As usual when i saw the headlines, i skipped the news video and came to watch your video as i knew you would have more info than the news service.

[@Firecat1976]

Thank you for info Jaun. Your channel is always so informative. 👍

[@davidmerwin7763]

What a sad day for CalFire. Thanks for the info Juan.

[@sandhill9313]

Sad after yesterdays beautiful canyon flying fire suppression, thought of you (Juan) immediately. Brave flyers.

[@keyplayermark]

I have lived in this area most of my life and know it well. Our typical east winds from the desert very well could have limited visibility with smoke from the fire burning to the east. Also add the terrain factor. Will see in the report.

[@Xpyburnt_ndz]

GR8 report of this very sad crash Juan...Really is mind boggling how they got into this scenario...hope the investigation brings it to light.

[@grecco_buckliano]

I think some states are better organized than others. I have been observing fire fighting aviation in the Pacific Northwest for the past 3 seasons and have observed some AMAZING coordination by subcontracting LEADS, DNR, USFS with as many as 18 aircraft on scene, 2 sometimes 3 leads from different subcontractors and on the big jobs, a camera bird, ALL separated by at least 1000 feet of altitude AND sometimes even orbiting in opposite, seemingly conflicting directions in inner and outer rings of orbit. The skill and precision are a beauty to behold and I have no doubt that these SEAT scoopers and Super Scoopers could drop an M&M into your hat if that is what you needed. A crash like the one in this is heartbreaking, but it is too soon to tell why, was it equipment failure? Hot dogging? Bumbling?. Lead should ALWAYS be well above the other aircraft going to, from, and on scene. BUT they did spend a long time in the air at similar altitudes, which is bad bad bad.

[@rocketscienceinstituteinc8993]

Thank you for swift accurate reporting.

[@deew7014]

💔💔💔 Rest Peacefully heroes 🙏

[@deew7014]

@@Fred-rv2tu wow

[@bobh6728]

@@Fred-rv2tuIf the fires aren’t put out, they will continue to spread out of control. In Michigan a wild fire killed over 300 people and burned most of the thumb of Michigan. And that was in 1881. Imagine if a fire that big happened now.

[@SteamCrane]

@@bobh6728 If the fires are put out, and woodland management is not enforced, it will build up fuel for an even bigger fire.

[@sparky2013]

Great job on your coverage as usual !

[@blancolirio]

Thanks Sparky.

[@wyomingadventures]

Condolences to the families and friends of firefighters. 😔

[@steveb18c]

Sad day for us at McClellan Aviation Management Unit. Thank you for the video Juan. -Steve

[@kevinphillips9408]

Terrible tragedy. R.I.P. and sincere condolences to families and all those impacted by this terrible accident

[@olddog103]

This was and still is my WORST PTSD NIGHTMARE. MY PRAYERS TO ALL FAMILY MEMBERS AND THE BRAVE PEOPLE WHO FLY THESE MISSIONS. GOD BLESS YOU ALL.( former Vietnam SAR CREWMAN)

[@richardschindler8822]

Such sad news, my condolences go out to all the families that are impacted by this tragedy. Those brave souls gave there lives so you and I can remain safe. Thanks for the update Juan.

[@MrShobar]

They didn't "give their lives". Their lives were taken from them in an needless accident they should have avoided. No altitude separation? How did that happen?

[@samwalker3441]

Thanks for the update, Juan. Looking forward to seeing more info when it is available.

[@F1fan007]

Great breakdown of the accident. It is sad they weren’t each assigned altitudes with at least 200 ft of separation. Maybe they were and someone busted the altitude or misunderstood. What a tragedy. These mid-airs are hard to hear about since any pilot, regardless of proficiency, can be taken out by one. Seems to have been a ton of them in the last year. The P39 / B17, the gyro and home built helicopter at Air Venture, the Watsonville, CA mid air, the Winterhaven mid air, and several others.

[@colt10mmsecurity68]

There’s no “assigned” altitudes over there at that such low level flying. They’re so low there that they don’t even have ATC comms right there and ATC isn’t even used for firefighting aircraft on scene. It’s all handled “in-house” with fire department aircraft.

[@F1fan007]

@@colt10mmsecurity68 shouldn’t there be a designated aircraft orbiting at higher altitude directing the incoming/outgoing aircraft in the drop area? Like a forward air controller?

[@rickmaudlin2160]

Condolences to the family and tp the Cal Fire family.

[@cheddar2648]

My first ever cross country in aviation finished with minimal fanfare at Hemmit-Ryan. Finally, events had conspired to get me behind the stick of something. In this case, it was a Cessna 172 November N215AF I think flying out of Montgomery-Gibbs with the AFAC club. Shigley was my CFI. The guys there were friendly, even to this lazy baby nugget. I recall the fire birds just laying about at Hemmit; that must have been a slow season. Later on, after bailing out of a burning Cali, I dipped my toes into the rotorcraft world. From about 2016 to 2019, I was somewhat active. At Heli Expo 2017 in Dallas, the buzz was around requiring safety upgrades, automation, and monitoring: TCAS or something like it, CVRs, FDRs, radios to xmit special maintenance sensor data in real time, you name it and it was tossed out there for consideration or ridicule. Visual Flight Rules depend on See and Avoid. It is easy to envision a scenario particular to the mission of air attack against ground fire that for a few precious, critical moments, three pairs of eyeballs were locked onto on the mission or the fire or the ground, and not up in the 4D space with the traffic nor scanning. In the rare case where both aircraft are similarly afflicted, the pathway through the Swiss Cheese Model is completed, and there is a mishap. It cannot help that the tracker data shows a hard to detect CPA: shallow angle convergance from the relative direction of nearly straight abeam with the one aircraft very obviously slightly above. In short, very near zero apparent relative motion and slightly or below, the hardest to detect with visual scans, in my nugget opinion. I am saddened for the loss of the aviator and crew. They were our best people. I will pray for those left behind. Take a lesson learned, remember the fallen, and fly safe. Thanks again, Juan.

[@jdellis9361]

Condolences to the families and to the fire community. I will be looking for reports on this incident as the investigation proceeds.

[@rickwiggins283]

Agree on the Foreflight or similar EFB. 2 ipads, 2 little portable receivers, 2 Foreflight subscriptions, and headsets connected with Bluetooth to get audio warnings and this isn't even a near miss. I never fly without this setup.

[@bigdmac33]

Analysis sounds about right. Few appreciate the risks that these guys take day and daily in order for people to safely go about their lives. They really are unsung heroes. Deepest respect and condolences.

[@psalm2forliberty577]

A moments incaution reverberates sadness to 3 families. May GOD RIP these 3 Souls & comfort their survivors !

[@MsRandiCook]

I heard this earlier and my heart just shuttered. God bless the souls lost and the family and friends. ❤❤❤❤❤❤

[@deansawich6250]

Thanks. Very sad. My condolences to the families and friends.

[@w13rdguy]

Condolences, Mr. Brown. I know this one is close to home for you. Thank you, firefighters, for doing the duty selflessly, and too often thanklessly. God bless all first responders 🙏❤

[@jamieknight326]

Sad news. Thank you for the informative analysis and educational perspective. Best wishes to the families of the victims.

[@reginaldwilkins5112]

As a recent follower of your excellent channel it's really odd to witness any part of an event. I was just ahead of two fire response units heading south on 29 Palms Highway. I'd noticed the smoke as I was leaving a small town northwest of Palm Springs and figured they'd close the 10 West if it got too close to the highway. We have windmills further east of Cabazon but it can get windy there too - they appeared to be blowing the smoke towards the highway. My brother was a CalFire fixed and rotor pilot out of Central Cal. He retired early when his buddies were killed in after a failure. Bless the families and your work preventing more losses.

[@reginaldwilkins5112]

*wing failure

[@daves6220]

The Skycrane and crew are from Siller Brothers in Marysville,Ca.

[@IsAllAboutHealth]

Sad, very sad news. Thanks for the detailed report as always!

[@JB91710]

A major problem first responders have is, adrenaline induced Tunnel Vision. Once they get into eyesight of their destination, they focus 100% on it rather than taking in the Big Picture and all the other things they need to take into consideration. In this case, spot the smoke, aim at the smoke and then get back to Flying the aircraft which includes checking your perimeter for other aircraft.

[@szabowabo91]

Thanks for the video. Just one clarification…the “HP” in this case does not mean horsepower. The 407 involved in this accident had the Honeywell engine conversion, AKA the “Eagle Mod,” good for 1,021 shaft horsepower.

[@arewequietonthewesternfron4252]

Condolences to the families of the individuals lost in this tragedy.

[@mauriceholder1386]

Such an inherently dangerous endeavor. God Bless these heros.

[@arnenelson4495]

Darn sad... Excellent coverage as usual.

[@sb75ification]

I was listening to Cal Fire Air Tac on my scanner when this occurred. Very sad. Condolences to all families and friends of the deceased.

[@nancychace8619]

Sincere condolences to all family and friends. Your explanation makes sense. I hope the answers are found and lessons learned. I know, when a crisis hits, it can be easy to take some shortcuts in the interest of expediency. However, it's crucial not to lose sight of important safety considerations. They are there for a reason. We don't know if that was a factor here, but this is certainly a good reminder of how important this is, and a good moment to do a safety review. Unequivocally, an ounce of precaution and a little extra care are always worth more than a pound of cure and regret. RIP. 💐

[@darrenphillips1652]

It's been a very busy fire season here in Canada and it's come with a heavy toll. We've lost four firefighters. One helicopter pilot when his chopper went down during bucketing operations, and three ground firefighters in separate incidents. One due to being struck by a falling tree, one from a fall, and one died due to injuries suffered in a ATV accident. Two of these line of duty deaths took place in my home province of British Columbia. We join you in your sadness of our losses.

[@donmoore7785]

That is so sad. Seems like it should not have happened. The only good part is, one of the craft and its crew survived. Excellent reporting as usual, Juan.

[@sesquivel729]

RIP. I drove past this fire on I10 earlier in the afternoon when this fire started. So sad.

[@icare7151]

Well stated Captain!

[@shaunroberts9361]

God bless all family's involved in this tragedy.

[@ypaulbrown]

Thank You Juan......so sad.....

[@mccarthysoutdoorsandgunclu446]

In Feb.2023, I was able to visit the main offices of " Cal-Fire " there I met DOZENS of people, many of whom were pilots. Rotary and fixed wing. Everyone of them, was and is, incredible to be around. This crash, is a great loss. My heart goes out to their families, and all those at Cal-Fire.

[@jimw1615]

Cal Fire quickly realized this fire could have become another Esperanza Fire which started (by arson) in nearly the same spot on October 26, 2006, and burned South up the lower slopes of Mt. San Jacinto resulting in the death of the 5-man U.S. Forest Service Engine 57 crew. I am sure they were not going to let this one run up the mountain again and were hell-bent on getting water on it as quickly as possible.

[@ednesbit2988]

Hey Juan I live just north of the accident what I suspect is that whole valley is full of giant windmills the big ones and they probably were considering those two it would be a different angle of attack for them I know these helicopters good I drive by Ryan airport alot plus theirs giant power lines and this valley from satellite view looks like a giant funnel two mountain ranges merge right there and create extremely high winds almost everyday I'm not for sure but one of these probably contributed to it ithis really sucks we lost 5 firefighters 20 yrs ago in this area

[@dobermanpac1064]

Sad and possibly preventable. Thanks Juan

[@evfarry]

Good breakdown as always, Juan. Keep up the good analysis.

[@Cool-Lake]

Thank you.

[@OnTheHighWatch]

I hear the CalFire scanner traffic recordings are horrific to listen to.

[@markmaki4460]

Hard to see color - yes indeed. I remember having to drive a little more defensively after i bought a metallic light blue vehicle.

[@firewatch814]

Calfire had another contract helicopter working the tea fire on the sierra national forest go down but luckily the pilot was flown to a hospital and released fairly soon after. This was on September 9.

[@TheWilliamHoganExperience]

I'm a sailor. when navigating on the ocean it never ceases to amaze me how I can be out in the middle of the sea crossing from LA to Catalina with only one other boat in sight, and it seems like every single time, they'll cross within a few hundred yards of me. Often I have to take evasive manuvers to avoid ships - and even whales! Granted, we are all operating at the same altitude, but we are sharing thousands of square miles of ocean, and there are not THAT many boats out there. ...and yet.... The worst places are approaches to harbors and anchorages. Everything converges, and collisions become MUCH more likely. You litterally have to keep your head on a 360 degree swivel when approaching shore. It appears these two aircraft were converging on the fire. It's easy to get target fixated under such circumstances and to forget your're sharing the sea or sky with other sailors and pilots. TCAS sounds great, (Sailors have AIS) but it's no substitute for keeping a sharp eye out - especially when you're moving at 150 knots instead of 6 knots like a sailor.... I imagine it's much harder to in aircraft - especiallially if your bogey is closing fast and dosen't contrast with the sky....

[@Taskforce1]

rest in peace and thank you for your service. damn.

[@justicegusting2476]

Sounds like a classic blind spot scenario.

[@LordCarpenter]

Very sad. Condolences to the families and friends impacted by this tragedy.

[@Whateva67]

I used to heli log under the skycrane for 5 years here in British Columbia,Canadian air crane.(Erickson).Siller brothers did some logging here with a 64 as well. I’ve seen some crazy shit done with those machines.

[@babygrrlpc5057]

Rest in peace, gentlemen 💔🙏🏻

[@johnfitzpatrick2469]

Sorry to hear of this sad tragedy. 🌏🇭🇲

[@brianellis3697]

Hey Juan, you made the front page of the LA Times today with your reporting on this story. Can't say if that's a good thing since most of the time the LAT has their facts wrong on so many things. In the long run however, quoting your level headed, factual commentary may be good for their casual readers. Too bad they didn't note your channel. Keep up the good work.

[@blancolirio]

Oh boy...

[@brianellis3697]

@@blancolirio Let me know if you'd like a .pdf of the article.

[@Henry-vb4hq]

Was expecting to see you at Airventure. I'm sorry you did not make it!

[@suzylarry1]

sorry to hear of this loss.

[@christopherestrada8576]

I know I speak for many of my colleagues here on Fox ATB when I express profound sorrow and heartache over the loss of our valiant brothers. I’ve personally been on far too many incidents where we’ve lost fire crew. The block of ice that smashes into the pit of my stomach, upon hearing such news, has lost none of its cold potency over the years. It is my sincerest hope that their friends and loved ones can find there way back to peace and joy before too long. R.I.P. the Honored Dead.

[@38911bytefree]

Respect to the first responders. Condolences.

[@duanequam7709]

After reading some of the comments and they sound honest and straight forward, the men and womenare risking there lives but who is standing up for them. I would like to hear a response to that. Boy am I and I am sure all of your followers are thankful you got out of that business.

[@patrickshanley4466]

Thanks, well done

[@jamiehamilton789]

Fred I couldn’t agree with your post more. I have seen so many things on fires here in California that make you wonder why there are even safety briefing’s in the morning. I have come to the opinion that it’s all smoking mirrors basically covering all the liability aspects until it’s time to go to the line and perform the work. Then the safety briefing goes out the window. Cal fire and the forest service is all politics anymore . The budgets are getting larger and larger every year, and the results remain the same. I honestly believe if they would spend half of their budget every year on actually reducing the fuel loads, we would not have the need for the amount of aircraft and personnel to fight these fires.

[@peterredfern1174]

Very sad Juan been quiet a few accidents lately ,hopefully the report will explain fully what happened.Condolences the thefamilies of the deceased,take care mate from ballarat in Oz,🙏🙏👋👋👍

[@davidgambuzza3607]

The Bell 407 has a Rolls Royce 250- C47 B 813HP

[@greggb1416]

Not a pilot, never will, to old, and forgetful…, Always love Airman Browne’s recounts if these incidents. With the square mile up & down, and and all around, I am always amazed at how, in the absolute hell, do two aircraft manage to collide in mid-air. So many precision maneuvers are performed by these pilots on a simple flight, or any flight for that matter, and still manage this type of outcome. By no means am I making judgements on these pilots, just in a state of disbelief, sadness, and grief… R.I.P., to the lost, and peace be with their loved ones. Thank you Airman Browne.

[@seanmcerlean]

Dang 😢😢. Some pertinent questions for the NTSB. Condolences to all affected 😢😢

[@brettbull5238]

I hate the horrible news, but thank you for more definitive answers

[@chrisorth]

I learned to fly in that area, Redlands / Riverside / Banning. At 6pm flying east, the sun would have been on their back side. I would expect there would be no problem seeing that red Sky Crane. An additional thing to note, is that, the winds are (always) very high in that area. I seem to remember hearing a story about Art Scholl flying a Cub(?) from the departure end of the Banning runway to the approach end at negative ground speed.

[@michaelmurphy2211]

Very sorry to see this. Firefighting is dangerous enough without accidents on top of everything else.😢

[@thomasevans337]

Quality reading

[@pylon500]

This is getting crazy, so many aircraft are being fitted with TCAS and other avoidance systems, yet this year I think we've had more mid-airs than any other year?