CAM Settings and Your Haas Machine - AutoDesk visits Haas Automation.

For this video, we invited CJ Abraham from Autodesk to help us explain the relationship between your CAM system and your machine. We show you how using the proper settings, like arc-filters and tolerance, make a huge difference in the performance of your machine. The guys also discuss High-Speed Machining and G187 and how those interact with the CAM system as well.
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[@helicopterjohns]

Very informative video. I as a HAAS owner would love to see more of these Fusion 360 Videos where both HAAS and Autodesk display how their products work together to create nicely machined products. John

[@claytonthompson6595]

Couldn’t agree more John

[@makestuffwithkids989]

I love that Brian was willing to tease himself about math, Big kudos, way to be real and raw. A big thank you from the Autodesk team for inviting us to be a part of this video!

[@MorganOliff]

CJ knows the stuff!

[@danjones7783]

Very informative, very interesting content - being able to reduce roughing cycle times whilst getting an accurate final part is good info. If I can ask the HAAS KZbin channel one thing: There are 3 countries in the world who run on imperial measurements. Granted, you guys are from California so you're one of them. But. Given that your machine tools are marketed internationally, could you put metric on screen captions for when dimensions/step overs/feeds/etc are specified? I'd really like an imperial to metric RPM guide though :P

[@FreidenkerDeluxe]

Fastest Yep is at 9:19

[@advancedretention9859]

never knew what the smoothing option was for, this is awesome!!!

[@moonryder203]

Awesome!😃 This is one of those things you don't really look at until you see it being used by someone else. Most just go with the default settings. This will make me pay more attention to the settings more. Thanks! You learn something every day! This will help me once my company hopefully,fingers crossed, gets the Hass UMC 750, 5 axis machine. Really looking forward to this machine. The only Hass we have finally got tired, it was an old HS-1RP horizontal. 😂

[@PhoneAppS1]

dang i haven't been machining to long and this video answered all my questioned, got an SS and was bothered about the machine slowing down if the tolerance to high and still leaving a bad finish will defiantly be using smoothing and the adaptive clearing p1 setting wish knew this earlier this is gonna help me a lot!

[@Factory400]

I discovered G187 anumber of years ago, but CAM support was limited. Most of the time, I was adding the code as a manual insert in CAM or at the machine. Since I now use both HSM and Fusion360 - this is a great step up. My preference would be to manually control this in the operation edit window so I don't have to worry about hitting a threshold number that is hardcoded in the post-processor. I like to use it for facing, but it will always pick G187 P2 since there is no depth stock allowance - only axial - so it slows down in the corners when there is no need. Overall - it is really nice to see the support for this underutilized and perhaps misunderstood G code. Knowing it and using it has saved me a TON of money (time).

[@chrisrokz9005]

Great Job. It really helps to see and hear the machine cutting also. Traditional CAM Systems ( Mastercam, Esprit, Gibbs . . et al ) better get their act together. Very cool that the CAM software knows what G187 setting to post.

[@twooldfartsinanrv7137]

As a contract programmer in 70s 80s and 90s I used many of the Cam softwares you mention here. I have used Fusion for my own testing looking at tool path. Fusion has come a long way and looks to be FANTASTIC for 90% of the shops

[@therealsarlic4702]

Idk why I’m responding to a four year old video, but all of those other CAM softwares can do the same. It really comes down to the post processor. Even the crappy default Haas Posts that comes in MasterCAM outputs a G187 P2. at the start of every toolpath. Additionally, I know in MasterCAM you can arc filter a toolpath, but you can also refit splines within a given tolerance at the geometry level, so every toolpath created from that spline will be the same without having to remember to arc filter each toolpath.

[@mechmotion]

This is especially helpful for me since we just switched to Fusion 360 about a month ago, and I've had this exact question. Thanks! I've been watching Lars Christensens' channel a lot as well. He's pretty darn good.

[@bwilliams1815]

Been looking at Fusion 360. Having 2 Haas machines, this was helpful. Still using another package but it adds value to Autodesk

[@jackflash6377]

Why is High Speed Machining even an (Expensive!!!) option? It should be standard!!! Excellent Video. Thank you both for the informative subject matter and the clear as day examples.

[@andywalser2343]

No machine tool has high speed machining standard. Welcome to the world of machine tools

[@jenspetersen5865]

I think a bigger question is why it is not the CAM system that controls this. Unless they feed more power to the servos or tune them differently, there is really no logic that should dictate that this is a machine control thing and not a CAM thing. I cannot really understand what the difference is between high speed machining in the CAM and in the machine control. Fusion has high speed machining, but it appears that high speed Fusion CAM + High speed Haas is peddled as the better solution.

[@Der_Drache]

@@andywalser2343 My Heidenhain Control has an indirect option for that as Standart. its called Cycle 32 Tolerance.

[@jackflash6377]

@@andywalser2343 Let me repeat 'Why is High Speed Machining an option anyway?" If I come up with something to make my product better, I immediately work it into production and pass it on to my customers. Should I start offering it an option? Hey, you can buy the basic unit but for almost $3000 more we'll make it perform like it should.

[@jackflash6377]

@@jenspetersen5865 From what I can gather. HSM enables much deeper look ahead as in 30 steps vs 200 steps as well as smoother transitions via tuned driver / servos. So it's definitely something that could not be implemented in CAM.

[@TheRcbthree]

WOW! That was very helpful! Thanks a lot!

[@ragemaster2]

I programmed using master cam for solid works for almost six years and for the last year I have only used Fusion360 and Haas its a game changer by far

[@agilemachining4774]

It will be useful to be able to see on what PMODE you are when running the machine in the G&M code page.

[@timmallard5360]

Great video! I don't own a HASS but if I ever graduate from my Tormach or Cabinet routers HASS is up there on my list. I would love to see a follow up video on the path toll errands side of things coupled with the inspection room. The concept all make sense if getting a feel for what range of numbers to play with.

[@atomkinder67]

I would add people should visit the forums! Just Google Fusion 360 CAM Forums and you'll find a ton of helpful folks there as well as many answered questions - you might even find yours has already been asked and addressed!

[@Thepriest39]

Great video even though I don’t use Fusion360. I use SOLIDWORKS with a CAM plug in but most of the settings still apply. My shop is about to get a VF4-SS with TSC. Looks like I will be able to fly through material!

[@BebenX]

Only if you have the hsm option you can.

[@vedantambekar5771]

Very informative !!!! More videos like this would be appreciated

[@beefwellington480]

Im still new to this but could you use the g187 p1 to get the initial form if the part and then switch to g187 p3 to do essentially a set of finish passes or is it more efficient to just run in one of the g 187 settings? Edit just saw the last part and think it answered my question.

[@NTGInnovations]

Thank you for explanation!

[@BlackSmokeDMax]

This question is for either the Autodesk or Haas reps: Do you guys have any recommended fusion settings for specific machines. i.e. I am thinking primarily of which Machine Confugration to choose from Fusion, or which Post Processor to choose. Or even better a more precise answer like: use (x) configuration for a 3 axis VF2, use (y) machine configuration for a 4 axis VF2, etc.

[@toddpeterson7316]

Great Video guys! What was the depth of that pocket? How much radial stock were you leaving within the adaptive clearing? What end mill brand? Thanks!

[@OakwoodMachineWorks]

Looked like a Helical.

[@tattooedmillionair]

When did Haas start to use "P" with G187? (I am use to seeing "E" with a specific tolerance, not 3 ranges to choose from)

[@michaelnelson3985]

Great Video!

[@CNCSKILL]

Every time I will need to change the CNC system parameter 191 choosing coarse medium and finish or CNC sees the program P index 1-3 and he automatically chooses the type of smoothing? Thank you!

[@ScottMoyse]

You can get your post setup to calculate the P value automatically

[@PrasadSonawanePrince]

Which end mills you are work with?

[@wojtczak1984]

When he talks about arc filtering nd smoothing. The tolerances he has "1e-05 in" what does that number mean?

[@mattweisbart4061]

This is another way of writing 0.00001". 1e5 would then mean 10 to the 5th power or 100000.

[@flyincivic]

What are those red probes in the tool rack???

[@thequietguy7]

Did I find this video interesting? Yep.

[@Joe-sm8wl]

yep, ok. right. yep.

[@CJAbraham]

Yep.

[@jackflash6377]

I was going to rough out some pockets then do a finish pass. I got the roughing pass to show G187 P1 but the finish pass would not go to G187 P3 and instead gave G187 P2. I set the Tolerance (1e-05 mm) and Smoothing lower and lower (1e-06 mm) until it was ridiculous and still P2. What else needs to be done to get P3 on my finish passes?

[@CJAbraham]

Hi Jack, First, make sure you have the latest post with all of the updates: cam.autodesk.com/hsmposts?p=haas This is the code snippet from the post that sets the mode to P2: if ((stockToLeave != 0) || (verticalStockToLeave != 0)) { workMode = 2; // default This means that if any stock to leave setting has been set, the post will use P2. If stock to leave is disabled, P3 will be used. Make sure that the operation has the stock to leave option on the passes tab unchecked.

[@jackflash6377]

​@@CJAbraham Tried it with some production code just now and it did give me P3. The Stock to Leave option was used during my first test. I had it set to a negative since I projected the part onto the fixture and need that extra 0.1mm around the perimeter. Thanks for the info!!

[@thundercuck1779]

Really good video and excellent quality, even if TerryBerry isn't in it. Very nice!

[@Aidenanddaddyvideos]

I have a serious question without trying to trash haas here. I have a fadal that mills a 3D radius on a part at 300 ipm with no hesitation, I try to run the same program on my brand new haas and it’s so laggy it’s ridiculous. I turned on the hsm option with we have the “trial”. I’ve heard the option they give you the trial of is only 50 percent of what the actual option is the true or is haas just not good with high feeds ????

[@atomkinder67]

No, the 200 hours is the full feature. We used it sparingly over the course of a year at the last shop I was at and it had paid for itself by the time the trial ran out (you can turn it on and off again, so I suggest doing so).

[@pbrenneman5]

Now that I just watched the video, I would ask you: what your tool path tolerance is? are you using line segments or arc filtering? and are you commanding a g187 in your code?

[@OriginalJetForMe]

Does the changing tolerance of g187 change the tool engagement, making it less constant throughout the tool path? Does this increase tool breakage risk of you’re pushing a tool to its limits?

[@atomkinder67]

Theoretically yes, there is a "corner rounding" setting for G187 P-values that can be altered in the code, but it will definitely slow down in smaller arcs (external or internal) without giving much benefit. I never bothered using P3, it slows the machine too much and chipload suffers. Often I still got results within a few tenths (ten-thousandths) of nominal anyway using P2. For job-shop work this is generally more than adequate.

[@RBravo82]

Yep.

[@valdineirosa3197]

Por favor fazer videos de fixacao de pecas direto na mesa da máquina

[@joemattes8389]

Is it just me or did they show in Fusion a tolerance of .01 and say it generated about 90 points, and then in the slide refer to it as test #1 .0001~90 points?

[@tattooedmillionair]

not sure of the actual numbers, but it was less points due to the use of arc's instead of straight-line moves

[@MakeItWithCalvin]

It feels awesome hearing the word #instamachinist used in the video =) keep up the good work guys!

[@OriginalJetForMe]

In the same way that controllers can steer the tool along a defined arc (which can be specified by a single gcode line), why can’t they interpolate splines (perhaps with multiple gcode lines to specify the control points)?

[@atomkinder67]

Heidenhain controls actually do this by default and do better with more points and there are settings for interpolation accuracy. Haas' control just doesn't do this very well, but they are also much less expensive generally speaking.

[@MorganOliff]

I have heard that but couldn't remember that it was Heidenhain! some machines are just better at math!

[@spinnetti]

If the cam is done right, is there any need for high speed machining option on the mill?

[@mechmotion]

I would say yes. If your feed rates are high enough, you can run through all the lines of code the standard look-ahead can do before it can calculate more. Then you get down to single line operation, which gets ugly. All HSM does is increase how far ahead in the program the machine can plan out the tool path.

[@spinnetti]

@@mechmotion Thanks... So if I'm not running crazy feeds maybe don't need(?). Most of my parts are fairly simple like the one shown. Can't see why this isn't standard... feels like a money grab.

[@mechmotion]

@@spinnetti It really helps for massive files with short moves. I've turned it on and off just to see what it does, and sometimes it does help. Longer G2/G3 moves give the control enough time to calculate the next move.

[@spinnetti]

@@mechmotion Thanks. Just trying to determine if its a good value, and since I'm not trying to run 24x7 and most my parts aren't that complex, I'm thinking its not a good value.

[@mechmotion]

@@spinnetti I would agree.

[@valdineirosa3197]

Otimo video

[@hms1018]

Yes

[@habibberkaoui4485]

Nice

[@ciscohernandez4384]

This video was informative but it also dropped my heart. I literally just purchased a brand new 2018 Haas VF-5SS. It delivers next week. It's the SUPER SPEED for crying out loud! And Now I find out that I can't really go as fast as the machine can handle unless I buy the $3,000 code? Cmon Haas. This really disappointed me.

[@MorganOliff]

there's a lot to still gain using smoothing controls and G187. we have a 2013 VF6 without HSM option and with attention to the code I am able to make it do anything I need it to. Haas would probably never call it this, but the HSM option is kind of a stop gap option to improve less than great code. if you can give it well smoothed code it will run plenty fast enough to scare you. :)

[@ciscohernandez4384]

@@MorganOliff I'll have to give it a try. I'll make sure to add some good smoothing and give it a test run. I found out I have 200 hours to test the feature. I'll document how the machine runs both with and without HSM and check the results. Hopefully you are right and I don't need to buy a $3k code

[@MorganOliff]

Cisco Hernandez I think the HSM will really help if you got them to turn it on. There are some cases where the CAM fights and still produces a ton of points, on our newer vf2 its nice that it just doesn't really care and runs the code fast anyway. But it would probably run even better if I went over the code the same way I do for the VF6

[@agilemachining4774]

I would not buy a SuperSpeed without HSM option IMUO, just how I would not buy a machine without a probe period.

[@farroohuhmuhamedow6199]

I ask you to show how to use your machine and the AutoCAD program, step by step with a water part to learn to use it.

[@derekkronenberger9376]

Why use G187 to change your speeds instead of just setting the correct feed and speed in the first place?

[@owievisie]

If you are going to put a G187 in by hand, you just put it one time in the beginning of that operation and that’s it?

[@tattooedmillionair]

I believe every time you come across a M30, it resorts to default ("setting" number 7, I think). at our shop, we put in a G187 at the begging and end of every feature (at the end just to cancel/reset).

[@bobjimenez4464]

Haas can provide good equipment and when the software can accurately predict stress relief the scrap bins will be empty.

[@danielmachado6750]

🌎Daniel Machado - Brazil🇺🇸🇧🇷

[@user-fy2eh9kf5d]

I KEEP LOOKING FOR YOU REPLY

[@roncharette524]

I’m confused with the use of the term millionths...was it actually millionths?

[@MorganOliff]

yes: .0001 inches is ten millionths of one inch. Quite confusingly, you will also hear this value referred to in the trade as "one tenth" (because it is one tenth of .001") the number is 2.54 micron.

[@roncharette524]

Morgan Oliff Thank you for replying. I really appreciated the demo. I would think in machining, “one tenth” referred to “one ten thousandth” of an inch or “0.0001 inch”. In that vein, I would also think that “0.0001 thou” would be like “one ten millionth” or “0.0000001 inch”. Am I thinking correctly?

[@MorganOliff]

Ron Charette individual millionths go in the 6th decimal place. When you have ten whole millionths they go in the 5th place aka the hundred-thousandths place

[@roncharette524]

Perfect. Got it!

[@benkenny3220]

@@MorganOliff Isn't .123456 something like 1 tenth, 2 hundredth, 3 thousandths, 4 ten thousandths, 5 hundred thousandths, 6 millionths? .000010" ? The smallest measurement I've seen is on a Mazak lathe .000000 or .00000. (Probably the latter, I don't know what kind of work needs millionths).. Just for a example.

[@karthikgowda5753]

I'm interested to work in your organization, can I get an opportunity ????

[@lvxleather]

Yep. Right. OK. Count how many times these words were said and win one million micro inches.

[@dereksauer8108]

Why is Autodesk's CAM breaking spline curves into a multitude of G1 lines to begin with when smoothing is not on? Any curve can be translated into G2/G3 arcs directly. You already have the start and finish coordinate and radius of each arc that makes up the curves of the spline. Smoothing facets makes sense when tool pathing a polygonal model but for parametric solids and arcs you have all the information at hand to make perfect tool paths to begin with with no need to fit vertices into a tolerance range.

[@ScottMoyse]

Splines aren't arcs to begin with. So the start and end point you refer to isn't there. The smoothing option will try to fit arcs along the coordinates of the spline based on the tolerance. Then use lines when that can't be achieved.

[@Flyanb]

Why didn’t Autodesk talk about POWERMILL? Are they trying to kill it. In the upper Midwest there are a lot of shops using this and I feel like they are ignoring us!

[@makestuffwithkids989]

I am sorry you feel that way. While we are aggressively working to make powerful CAM tools more accessible and connected with Fusion 360, we have not forgotten about Powermill. There are some dramatic improvements to calculation speed in the works for example. Reach out anytime, I lead the Product Management team for all our CAM solutions.

[@johngladiator803]

@@makestuffwithkids989 Admit it, Powermill will go the way of the do-do just like Artcam did. All of the sudden ZERO support.

[@veronly2]

5:23 10 thous is.0100 not .0001?

[@tucobreakinbad5000]

Someone needs to go back to 5th grade math... www.homeschoolmath.net/teaching/d/thousandths.php

[@makestuffwithkids989]

@@tucobreakinbad5000 It's an entire industry that needs to go back to 5th grade. BTW did you know 5 Axis and 3+2 aren't the same thing?

[@LithiumSailing]

The information in your graphics are wrong in a couple of spots. Then thou isn't .0001

[@tucobreakinbad5000]

Clayton He said 10 thou in the video when referencing .0001, not thou.

[@gerritburgel3048]

jep

[@pankaj-1988]

Your machine is very good All function is very good But tapping recovery is very bad Do not any alarm for tapping My oprater has-been powerbotam Press so tap is Breakdown

[@pheidosify]

Who's really so concerned with cycle time to the degree of fractions of a second?????

[@xavibustilloz779]

Brian’s face is weird looking...lol

[@ExMachinaEngineering]

OK, so basically when Haas sees a non-optimal practice in many of its customers they go: "That ain't workin' that's the way you do it Money for nothin' and chicks for free" Because, really, these videos are basically money for nothing...

[@robertr9138]

Did you really refer to that as a high performance machine tool? Seriously?

[@atomkinder67]

@@machinist5506 Have you ever used a Haas? None of them cost $750k and there's a reason. I went from programming and running a VF-6SS (using HSMWorks - IE this same CAM software in the video) to Hermle and +GF+ Mikron machines, and there is a world of difference. But they are different machines; Haas is a commodity machine tool. They get the job done, but they are not special, they are just priced affordably for their market.

[@ScottMoyse]

@@atomkinder67 I think he was defending Haas.