Cambridge Audio AXR85 vs. AXR100 | Review & Comparison

  Рет қаралды 81,979

Audio Advice

Audio Advice

Күн бұрын

Пікірлер: 143
@Payment-handlers-welcome
@Payment-handlers-welcome 5 ай бұрын
Yes great advice i got MY AXR85 back in 2023, doesn't STOP Giving tremendous sound.... i'm well impressed hope theres an upgrade in 2029 when its up for REnewal
@Payment-handlers-welcome
@Payment-handlers-welcome 5 ай бұрын
Watch out for the i.T wankers, dont give up.
@AudioAdvice
@AudioAdvice 5 ай бұрын
Glad you are enjoying yours. Thanks for watching
@terrycain1811
@terrycain1811 3 жыл бұрын
This is a beautiful sounding receiver. I love it
@AudioAdvice
@AudioAdvice 3 жыл бұрын
Glad you like it too! Thanks for watching.
@mark17840
@mark17840 2 жыл бұрын
i have the cambridge axc-100 you are so right this axc100 form cambridge is beautiful and awesome love the sound is very powerful it has good soundstage
@MrDoneboy
@MrDoneboy 3 жыл бұрын
My AXR 85 and a pair of Klipsch R-620F's, are a match made in Heaven!
@AudioAdvice
@AudioAdvice 3 жыл бұрын
That is a good combo! Thanks for watching
@New-England-HiFi-Guy
@New-England-HiFi-Guy 3 жыл бұрын
Are there issues with the fan and is it on all the time?
@MrDoneboy
@MrDoneboy 3 жыл бұрын
@@New-England-HiFi-Guy No issues with mine so far.
@AudioAdvice
@AudioAdvice 3 жыл бұрын
@@MrDoneboy Thanks Don, same here, we have sold hundreds with zero complaints
@New-England-HiFi-Guy
@New-England-HiFi-Guy 3 жыл бұрын
@@MrDoneboy does it run constant?
@rbattson7171
@rbattson7171 2 ай бұрын
I have the 85, its been around a while now, so, its a bit of a bargain. I have it with a pioneer cd player, a yammy sub and wharfedale diamond 9.1s. Very pleased with the whole set up all for less than £700.
@AudioAdvice
@AudioAdvice 2 ай бұрын
Thanks for sharing!
@Thetimeisnow78
@Thetimeisnow78 4 жыл бұрын
I have the axr 100. Great sound for the money. Bluetooth reception is weak. The cooling fan is loud.. I mean really loud.
@1010darko
@1010darko 3 жыл бұрын
Hallo i been thinking to buy... Everything is a perfect fit except that fan... It really bugging me... Does it work all the time for example when you listen late at night at low volumes, or just when you crank it up? Also this unit wood be for movies (seconary use). I was wondering what about years to come when it gets dirty from dust...
@AromaFrank
@AromaFrank 3 жыл бұрын
@@1010darko It turn on only when u crank it up to high volume.
@dmnddog7417
@dmnddog7417 3 жыл бұрын
Interesting. I've had the AXR100 for about 2 1/2 wks now and I haven't heard the fan at all, even when I get up close to the device.
@jessebrunsveld1
@jessebrunsveld1 3 жыл бұрын
@@dmnddog7417 is it the newer axr100d?
@upyklt
@upyklt 4 жыл бұрын
Great review thank you!
@fatboyvin
@fatboyvin 2 жыл бұрын
Which integrated amp + dac would you suggest for the wharfedale diamond 12.2?
@AudioAdvice
@AudioAdvice 2 жыл бұрын
The AXR100 would be better as they can use a little power. Thanks for watching
@bogdannan4617
@bogdannan4617 4 жыл бұрын
Can I connect the AXR85 to my speakers from Wharfedale, the Diamond 225s?
@pappason2761
@pappason2761 4 жыл бұрын
Yes, that’s a great pairing. I have that setup now. AXR85 drives them with ease.
@Torttelini1
@Torttelini1 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you so much, this was an amazing comparison. I recently got the AXR100 and I'm glad I did since I was planning to use the system with my TV as well. Does the AXR100 pair well with DALI Oberon 3s?
@AudioAdvice
@AudioAdvice 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you! In a medium to small room, it should pair fine with them. Another great similar speaker is the Heco Aurora 300 www.audioadvice.com/heco-aurora-300-bookshelf-speaker Thanks for watching and we are glad the video was helpful to you.
@angelheart7643
@angelheart7643 Жыл бұрын
Hmm not good for a large room with its 100 watts x 2 Power? I'm wondering why. I have the Oberon 3 and a Mivoc Sub and have just ordered the AXR100 as replacement for Marantz PM 66 KI from the 90s tuned by Ken Ishiwata.
@eddiekarisa1494
@eddiekarisa1494 2 жыл бұрын
Great review!!
@AudioAdvice
@AudioAdvice 2 жыл бұрын
Glad you enjoyed it
@ecruzd3rd
@ecruzd3rd 3 жыл бұрын
great review, very interested in the AXR85. question, could you connect it to speakers and also to a headphone amp and switch between the two with the speaker a/b button?
@AudioAdvice
@AudioAdvice 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you. The headphone jack turns the speakers off. If you had a separate headphone amp, yes. You would connect the headphone amp audio inputs up to the record out on the AXR85. Thanks for watching
@velvet1undergrund643
@velvet1undergrund643 3 жыл бұрын
@@AudioAdvice hola que tal ,una consulta. acabo de comprar el Cambridge axr85 . Que parlantes serian un buen match con este receiver? Gracias por tu respuesta.
@guilhermeribeiro8120
@guilhermeribeiro8120 2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for this amazing Review and comparison! I've been looking the AXRs for some time now, and i would like to know; can i use a pair of Pioneer SP-FS52s (130W 6ohms) with these? Thanks!
@AudioAdvice
@AudioAdvice 2 жыл бұрын
Thank you. In a small room the AXR100 would be fine. Thanks for watching
2 жыл бұрын
Hi. I got a Cambridge Sr10 + Monitor Áudio Broze 2. I am looking for an upgrade to give more more detail, but keeping speaker's size on mind (small loving room). My question is: what would I change? Speakers or receiver as well? If speakers are the answer, what would recommend?
@AudioAdvice
@AudioAdvice 2 жыл бұрын
Please reach out to our team at www.audioadvice.com for the best advice. Thanks for watching
@kashiramahirwar7338
@kashiramahirwar7338 6 ай бұрын
Hello sir, I want to buy ax85 ,my priorities are more trable than the base,will it be good choice to me. Plz also suggest book self speaker, which matches perfect with this.
@AudioAdvice
@AudioAdvice 6 ай бұрын
There are a lot of good choices, please reach out to our team at www.audioadvice.com to discuss. Thanks for watching
@AKelly-wd4lj
@AKelly-wd4lj 4 жыл бұрын
Does the AXR85 contain a DAC? Or is that just a feature on the AXR100?
@HUW-05039
@HUW-05039 4 жыл бұрын
Cambridge Audio did not provide Digital inputs for axr85, but physically dac is inside as it is necessary for eg. Bluetooth audio. CA just stinted for digital input.
@rahulsan24
@rahulsan24 4 жыл бұрын
I can see that it has a bluetooth dac. But it is active only when bluetooth is in use.
@veeclash4157
@veeclash4157 3 жыл бұрын
I think that DAC is a pretty big deal/difference. That would mean that the AXR100 is a true integrated solution while the AXR85 would require you to purchase a separate DAC.
@mark17840
@mark17840 2 жыл бұрын
@@veeclash4157 the cambridge axr-100 HAS DAC
@kenserio
@kenserio Ай бұрын
So this has a phono preamp? I HAVE a Rega pl3 and use a Schitt Mani 2 now, show I continue using a preamp or can I just hook directly to phono connections?
@hgodfrey
@hgodfrey Жыл бұрын
Are they really better than the Topaz amps they replaced? You can pick those up used for very little money
@AudioAdvice
@AudioAdvice Жыл бұрын
Good question. Chat or call our team at audioadvice.com for more info.
@ghty56222
@ghty56222 3 жыл бұрын
how would one change the 200hz cross over point on this AMP? or is it impossible...
@AudioAdvice
@AudioAdvice 3 жыл бұрын
It is fixed
@Jbrunel510
@Jbrunel510 3 жыл бұрын
@@AudioAdvice So if you're sub only goes up to 90hz for example would you have a gap between 91-199hz? Or would the speakers that are plugged in still output those frequencies?
@davidwho7847
@davidwho7847 3 жыл бұрын
@@AudioAdvice Fixed? How? an adjustment or what?
@AudioAdvice
@AudioAdvice 3 жыл бұрын
@@davidwho7847 Sorry, not fixed as in repaired, the frequency is fixed at 200 Hz- there is no way to change it
@davidwho7847
@davidwho7847 3 жыл бұрын
@@AudioAdvice That's too bad. Thank you for the reply.
@donaldbaker4634
@donaldbaker4634 3 жыл бұрын
I've just bought a Cambridge Audio XR85, however awaiting delivery, also have a Rega Plannar 1 and Q Accoustics 320i bookshelf speakers, the man at shop said I would still need to use a ground wire in order to hear records on the deck. Is this the case when I have seen this amplifier advertised it says no need to hook your record player up to anything. Will the Rega Plannar 1 work fine with just the speakers and Rega Plannar 1.
@AudioAdvice
@AudioAdvice 3 жыл бұрын
The AXR85 has a built in MM phono preamp, you should be fine. Thanks for watching
@julianhine379
@julianhine379 Жыл бұрын
At 3:30 it says about a 'connector that will make for a tight fit for your speaker cable'. How exactly do I connect said cable? Thank you
@AudioAdvice
@AudioAdvice Жыл бұрын
With a banana plug or bare properly stripped speaker cable
@julianhine379
@julianhine379 Жыл бұрын
@@AudioAdvice Thank you; regarding the stripped cable (which I’m using) - should I simple poke it in then screw it such that it’s clamped tightly into place?
@AudioAdvice
@AudioAdvice Жыл бұрын
@@julianhine379 yes
@isaacalter7388
@isaacalter7388 3 жыл бұрын
The topic of this video is "AXR85 vs. AXR100" but basically it's a general review of the AXR85. You mentioned that the AXR100 will give you more amps, but for this fact I didn't need this review as it's obvious. You never mentioned anything about built in dac that comes with the AXR100 as oppose to the lack of a dac at the AXR85 and what does it mean? X Vs. Y should be a comparison to my opinion.
@AudioAdvice
@AudioAdvice 3 жыл бұрын
Yes, the AXR 100 has a bit more power but the big difference is the fact you get DAC's in the AXR100, which we go over starting at about 4:50 and on in the video. Thanks for watching
@fathmi
@fathmi 2 жыл бұрын
I live in Raleigh, need to visit your showroom for trying these amps.Can AXR85 or AXR100 be connected with a AV receiver like Onkyo RZ50 for surround sound(5.1.2)? Is there a way to use the integrated amp independently to enjoy stereo sound(2.1) for music while still connected to AV receiver?
@AudioAdvice
@AudioAdvice 2 жыл бұрын
Those two pieces do not have a home theater bypass input. If you wanted that feature, some of the Rotel integrated amps have it, for a bit more $$$. Please feel free to visit our showroom and talk to our team about your system. Thanks for watching
@andreperron8466
@andreperron8466 3 жыл бұрын
the AXR 85 connected with floor loudspeakers from NHT model 1.8 cut 45 degree in diamond point its should be good? thank you for your advice
@AudioAdvice
@AudioAdvice 3 жыл бұрын
What is the sensitivity rating of the NHT? If it is greater than 88 dB, you should be fine, thanks for watching
@Jpanic4
@Jpanic4 3 жыл бұрын
Great review, How would this pair with a the Br03 or Elec Debut Reference?
@AudioAdvice
@AudioAdvice 3 жыл бұрын
The Elac's are a bit harder to push than the Triangle speakers, in a small to medium room, you should be fine- large room with Elac's might be pushing it. Thanks for watching
@Jpanic4
@Jpanic4 3 жыл бұрын
@@AudioAdvice Thank you!! Now I just need to make up my mind between the Br03, Elac Debut Reference and RP-600. Comparing them all currently but having a hard time picking between the three since the all sound good in their own ways. Any advice or suggestions in narrowing it down to one?
@OldDolio312
@OldDolio312 4 жыл бұрын
it has a preamp built in? So I shouldn't get a separate one?
@jonthompson8807
@jonthompson8807 3 жыл бұрын
for phono? it has a MM preamp
@zx7gp
@zx7gp 3 жыл бұрын
So if I put this head to head with my Sansui G 8000 which one would win? I am willing to go modern if it is worth it even tho todays stuff is so incredibly boring looking.
@AudioAdvice
@AudioAdvice 3 жыл бұрын
A completely redone G8000 would sound very good. That was a great receiver, but if it does not have new caps, the Cambridge would win. Thanks for watching
@zx7gp
@zx7gp 3 жыл бұрын
@@AudioAdvice ok keeping the Sansui. Thanks!
@alvarovelezuribe
@alvarovelezuribe 3 жыл бұрын
Which one do you recomend Cambridge AXR86 or Yamaha As501? wich is better? Thanks
@AudioAdvice
@AudioAdvice 3 жыл бұрын
Please go to www.audioadvice.com and chat with one of our experts. Thanks for watching
@MikeVideos327
@MikeVideos327 3 жыл бұрын
Im in this same exact boat. Stuck between 2 models to power my new TT and Wharfedale Dentons. I personally like the yahama look and tone controls better but a lot of people wont shut up about how good the cambridge audio is
@ratikantamahapatra8847
@ratikantamahapatra8847 2 жыл бұрын
Can I connect two 8 Ohm speaker in two speaker out port individual...
@AudioAdvice
@AudioAdvice 2 жыл бұрын
Yes, just use the A and B connections
@_uf0_
@_uf0_ 2 жыл бұрын
Hello! Will axr85 pair good with B&W 607 s2 ? I was looking at Denon PMA 600NE and Marantz PM6007 , but some people say that sound could be too warm and not bassy enough (I’m listening to different musical genres ). Maybe you know some better options in this price range ? Thank you for the tip!
@AudioAdvice
@AudioAdvice 2 жыл бұрын
The AXR85 would work well and is a good value. Thanks for watching
@theranova99
@theranova99 2 жыл бұрын
You seem to conflate "amps" and "receivers" . . . or am I missing something? Is receiver now a term for any kind of Input ?
@AudioAdvice
@AudioAdvice 2 жыл бұрын
A receiver is a combination of a preamp, a power amp and an AM/FM Tuner. There is some confusion on the word "amp". In most of Europe, "amp" means an integrated amp which is a preamp and power amp in one box. In the US, we usually refer to that piece of gear as an integrated amp, although some companies here are following the European name. These two pieces in this overview are both receivers. We hope this clears it up and thanks for watching.
@jonthompson8807
@jonthompson8807 3 жыл бұрын
if i want to listen to this at my PC desktop. should i get a dac magic 200m to connect my pc to and then connect to the AXR100?
@AudioAdvice
@AudioAdvice 3 жыл бұрын
Jon- yes that would work fine. Or you could use the DAC MAGIC 100 and save $300- it does not sound quite a good, but is a great value- we just got in some stock on both of these www.audioadvice.com/cambridge-audio-azur-dacmagic-100, www.audioadvice.com/cambridge-audio-axr100-fm-am-stereo-receiver
@jonthompson8807
@jonthompson8807 3 жыл бұрын
@@AudioAdvice awesome thank you. I was hoping to listen to DSD or MQA in the future. Only the 200m can do that right? I have a 100 right now.
@grandviewlodge3731
@grandviewlodge3731 3 жыл бұрын
@@jonthompson8807 Jon. Yes only the 200 does that.
@rehakmate
@rehakmate 3 жыл бұрын
You could get a Fiio Btr5 or a K5 Pro, I have both and I have an AXR100 hooked up to them from my PC as a source, they sound fantastic, you just need a jack to RCA (BTR5) or RCA to RCA cable (K5 pro)
@williamhodgson1428
@williamhodgson1428 10 ай бұрын
How would the AXR85 fit with Dali Spektor 2’s?
@AudioAdvice
@AudioAdvice 10 ай бұрын
While we have not paired those two, the specs on the Dali show they are not very sensitive at all (84.5dB). That means you be better off with more power.
@andreassouth1523
@andreassouth1523 3 жыл бұрын
Does the axr 100 have a digital potentiometer or an analog one? If I am not mistaken, it have a digital one?
@AudioAdvice
@AudioAdvice 3 жыл бұрын
Good question, probably digital.
@chitowntiger1
@chitowntiger1 11 ай бұрын
I'm searching for a receiver for my son. I bought a Cambridge integrated amp around 06/07 for a second home. Only 30 watts per channel but sounded really sweet on my GR Research Paradox 1 bookshelves. I have tube amp mono blocks, and a preamp in my other home. My son is considering a tube amp at a reasonable price, and asked me if I could help find him one. After searching, I've come to the conclusion that I think Solid State is the better option for him today. Of these two amps I think I would be making a mistake telling him to get the '85'. The digital inputs on the '100' really seem important, but there's an open box 85 for 200 bucks less than the 100 new. If anyone has any thoughts on what I should tell him to do, it would be appreciated. Thanks
@AudioAdvice
@AudioAdvice 11 ай бұрын
Chat or call with our team of experts at audioadvice.com and they can help you decide the best one for you!
@chitowntiger1
@chitowntiger1 11 ай бұрын
Thanks@@AudioAdvice
@darkokc3776
@darkokc3776 10 ай бұрын
q acoustics 3050i with cambridge axr100 should work well or not?
@AudioAdvice
@AudioAdvice 10 ай бұрын
Yes that should be a good match. Thanks for watching
@Quatrocanti59
@Quatrocanti59 Жыл бұрын
On the AXR100 can i use the A/B together ?
@AudioAdvice
@AudioAdvice Жыл бұрын
Reach out to our team of experts at audioadvice.com and they can look into this for you!
@Peter144-zn7us
@Peter144-zn7us 6 ай бұрын
Can this amplifier perform on the Klipsch RP-8000 F Ii
@AudioAdvice
@AudioAdvice 6 ай бұрын
Easily, those are super high sensitivity speakers. Thanks for watching
@dmnddog7417
@dmnddog7417 3 жыл бұрын
I recently purchased the AXR100, and I like the sound, but I'm finding there's a slight delay on the digital optical input when the sound kicks in. I'm not sure if its the receiver, or my TV that has the delay. With my previous all-analog amp I had to use a dongle DAC for the TV and I don't think there was a delay. However, the sound is better with the direct connection from the TV to the AXR100. The delay is a little annoying though.
@AudioAdvice
@AudioAdvice 3 жыл бұрын
We are happy you like the sound on your AXR100. Did you set the TV to output stereo PCM? Thanks for watching
@dmnddog7417
@dmnddog7417 3 жыл бұрын
@@AudioAdvice Yes, it's set to PCM. It's a Samsung 4K Smart TV. It also seems that when I use the smart apps for streaming services, the volume is lower and I need to turn up the volume on the receiver. I think it's the TV that has these sound issues. My previous TV didn't have problems with the sound.
@AudioAdvice
@AudioAdvice 3 жыл бұрын
@@dmnddog7417 We have seen the same thing with volume issues. See if the TV has a lip-sync feature and try adjusting it.
@dmnddog7417
@dmnddog7417 3 жыл бұрын
@@AudioAdvice I think I figured it out. It seems the problem is at my PC connected to the TV via HDMI. I switched cables and the problem persists, so something is going on at the computer that is not starting the sound exactly at the same time as the video. Once the sound kicks in, everything is fine, it's just right at the beginning it doesn't kick in immediately. It might be driver issue. I connected my laptop to the same port and cable, and it didn't have the delayed start of the sound. I also decided not to use the TV's Smart apps anymore, and logged out of my streaming services. It annoyed me that the sound output from the apps is much lower. I reconnected my Apple TV for my streaming services and it's much better.
@AudioAdvice
@AudioAdvice 3 жыл бұрын
@@dmnddog7417 Thanks for letting us know!
@aahperezs
@aahperezs 3 жыл бұрын
I need help please!! Im buying the ELAC Unifi UB5.2 And need to decide between 1) Yamaha WXA 50 2) Cambridge audio axr100 I don't know how they would combine with the ELAC Unifi 2.0 🙏🏼🙏🏼
@AudioAdvice
@AudioAdvice 2 жыл бұрын
Great question, Aaron! We really appreciate your request for help from Audio Advice. To give you the best recommendation, we need a little more information about your setup. Feel free to reach out to one of our chat experts at audioadvice.io/aa-chat so we can help you make the decision easier. We hope this helps, and thank you so much for watching!
@HaraHetta
@HaraHetta 2 жыл бұрын
So which one u bought? And how is the sound?
@brandingmix
@brandingmix 4 жыл бұрын
This is a commercial not a review. Absolute lack in objectivity.
@BlueDragonBot
@BlueDragonBot 3 жыл бұрын
I’m sort of new with sound systems as I’ve never really owned one, but will this work with the Q acoustics 3030i speakers?
@AudioAdvice
@AudioAdvice 3 жыл бұрын
Yes, either one of these would drive those just fine. Thanks for viewing our video!
@BlueDragonBot
@BlueDragonBot 3 жыл бұрын
@@AudioAdvice And thank you for answering! You’ve got yourself a new sub!
@anhem4003
@anhem4003 4 жыл бұрын
Why cheaper than axa80?
@rl8236
@rl8236 4 жыл бұрын
Topaz range sprayed grey
@rahulsan24
@rahulsan24 4 жыл бұрын
It is a well built receiver for the price.
@SupriYono-t6y6n
@SupriYono-t6y6n Ай бұрын
for new dynaudio emit 10?
@AudioAdvice
@AudioAdvice Ай бұрын
Probably not, that speaker needs a ton of power to get going. Thanks for watching
@shaunmcarthur3616
@shaunmcarthur3616 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks for this - is there a huge sonic difference between the AXR85 and a CA60/61?
@AudioAdvice
@AudioAdvice 3 жыл бұрын
You're welcome! The difference is not huge, but there is more bass control and a more open sound with the 61. Thanks for watching
@shaunmcarthur3616
@shaunmcarthur3616 3 жыл бұрын
@@AudioAdvice I ended up buying a CXA81 and a StreamMagic 6 streamer..a whole lotta wow. As far as analog goes, will having a moving coil cartridge improve my turntable performance significantly?
@AudioAdvice
@AudioAdvice 3 жыл бұрын
@@shaunmcarthur3616 Nice! Hopefully you got it from us :) If you have a good turntable, YES! But you will also need an MC phono preamp to go with it.
@AT-wl9yq
@AT-wl9yq 2 жыл бұрын
@@shaunmcarthur3616 You should notice a big difference moving up from an entry level MM cart. Before you do anything, though, you have to make a choice. If you want to use the built in phono pre in the Cambridge then you need to get a high output moving coil cart. Otherwise, you will have to get a phono pre that can handle a low output cart. The only drawback of going low output is you need to get a high quality phono pre. You can't just use anything if you want the system to sound good.
@shaunmcarthur3616
@shaunmcarthur3616 2 жыл бұрын
@@AT-wl9yq Appreciate that. I ended up buying the CA CP-2 and everything is so good.
@darthvaper6745
@darthvaper6745 4 жыл бұрын
These or a Yahamha A-S801 so heavy metal and hard rock (own b&w601 speakers and have a large room)
@darthvaper6745
@darthvaper6745 4 жыл бұрын
???
@monakotwal1260
@monakotwal1260 3 жыл бұрын
Can I connect it to my tv
@AudioAdvice
@AudioAdvice 3 жыл бұрын
The AXR100 has optical inputs. If your TV has optical out, and most do, the answer is yes. Thanks for watching
@JoneJere
@JoneJere Жыл бұрын
Does anyone know if there is any way to turn the AXR100D on without manually pressing the power button on the receiver or the control? I would like to have the receiver also be turned on when TV or Apple TV is turned on.
@AudioAdvice
@AudioAdvice Жыл бұрын
That is a great question, but we do not know of a way
@sdrtcacgnrjrc
@sdrtcacgnrjrc Жыл бұрын
Im four minutes in and theres still no comparison :-/
@AudioAdvice
@AudioAdvice Жыл бұрын
Patience grasshopper.
@HevyGee
@HevyGee 3 жыл бұрын
This feels more like an Advertisement than a Review
@audiophileuk1341
@audiophileuk1341 3 жыл бұрын
200hz? Wot the hell
@augoust21
@augoust21 2 жыл бұрын
hi, does axr85 have a DAC?
@AudioAdvice
@AudioAdvice 2 жыл бұрын
No, it does not. Thanks for watching!
@FedUpLurker
@FedUpLurker 2 жыл бұрын
Unfortunately All the clips on this channel are dominated by talking heads.... sigh
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