Camille Q is Messed Up

I didn't put this in the video because I found out about it a few days later, but apparently Camille's Q2 sometimes isn't affected by steelcaps. If you auto attack your target after Q1 the reduction applies, but if you use Q1 then Q2 without auto attacking in between there's no reduction.
Source: / extremely_odd_plated_s...
Check out the video by Deep League:
• Damage Types
Music:
• Starbound OST - Novaki...
• Camille, the Steel Sha...
• Phoenix Wright Ace Att...

[@Hylofear]

Thanks for all the positive comments guys! I didn't expect this to blow up as much as it has, but it's lovely to see that people like this content. EDIT: For everyone asking how I put the items on the dummy, there's a new feature in practice tool that allows you to copy your inventory to a target dummy. You can also give yourself or the dummy status effects and spell shields.

[@user-hg4ce1yl1i]

well structured, edited and informative. gets the point across. deserves the attention :)

[@bezly8867]

u need to make more informative videos like this

[@lonemichi5289]

More stuff like this. The mainstream EDU scene in league is really surface level. Channels like yours keep someone who's played for years learning.

[@maximdecimus2258]

So, Camille’s Q has quantum mechanics, simultaneous properties of an attack and an ability.

[@nou2500]

he gets it

[@craftingodst3400]

Schrodingers Q

[@cc1drt]

you mean superposition 😂

[@aimaos8888]

The most digestable description of an ability ive seen

[@victorvds6694]

its so odd that plated steelcaps reduces TRUE damage

[@bezly8867]

ikr, i just learned that from this video lmao

[@MatsYoo]

ok tahts fucked when even percentage damage mitigation like alistar ult doesnt affect true damage as its supposed to be unreducable

[@einjharrelraca]

it also used to work on old kracken slayer's true damage, for some reason.

[@Okita78]

More so it reduces her entire attacks damage which is then converted into true damage. So yes less damage, the interaction makes sense.

[@vraxo8953]

doesn't reduce vayne true dmg tho :(

[@caenen6869]

Warden's mail used to actually reduce both damage instances from Camilla Q, until shortly before Zeri's release where Warden's was changed to only trigger on the first instance of damage from a single spell cast. The maximum of 40% reduction applies to this first instance and _luckily_ for the Warden's user that is Camille Q's true damage portion, not the physical one that goes down to a 0 damage instance at level 18. One more note on Spellblade - the interaction here is not Riot playing favorites, it's historical: Spellblade used to *add* an amount equal to X% AD directly to the damage event's value in the on-hit phase of the damage event. Camille's damage conversion happens after that, and so do other effects like Corki passive or Gangplank E checking how much damage it was last it for from Gangplanks attack/Q. In 9.14 Sheen was changed to a separate damage instance (probably for the updated death recap to be able to list it as "item" damage), which broke all of these interactions. The fix was a bunch of special casing, which is also why i.e. Camille Q and Corki passive convert *100%* of the Sheen damage to true/magic damage instead of the respective fractions they "should" convert. Steelcaps and the damage conversion from Camille Q happen in the same phase in the damage event. Because of that, the actual order of operation actually depends on the order in which the two buffs managing those effects have in the array of buffs on the target (Camille Q puts the buff for the damage conversion on the target the attack is hitting, might sound unintuitive but it makes sense for the event). Up until about a year ago, this order of events was not consistent, until a few friends and I collaborated with a Rioter in getting that to be consistent. Great video, the way you interacted with the current information on the wiki has given me some clues on what to focus on when I document the updated damage system properly across the pages.

[@Hylofear]

The Warden's bug is interesting, because the true damage is dealt just before the physical for Q2. So Warden's should be applying to the true damage, not the physical. But it seems to be the other way around, with the 40% of total damage cap intact, just acting on a smaller portion. You can tell that the physical applies after the true by looking at a target dummy's "last hit" damage info. It displays the physical amount (or 0 if camille is lvl 16 or above).

[@caenen6869]

@@Hylofear Yeah I just edited my comment because I realized my faux-pas. I had it written the correct way around in my notes, but somewhere in my mind I had this note of "Warden's is REALLY ineffective against X spell" but X is just Ashe Q (and of course Zeri Q) while Camille/Graves/Corki are for the most part not hitting the cap consistently or simply not all too impacted. There is another way of telling the damage event order and that's with knowing new damage events immediately abort if the target is at 0 health from a previous one that was applied in a chain of events instead of nested events. For example, every on-hit effect (and also Camille Q's true damage) is applies *nested* into the attack's damage event in the on-hit phase, which comes before mitigation/drain/pre-apply(shields, warden also lives here unless recently changed)/apply phases. So Camille Q's true damage can apply to a target and you still get your physical damage event to finish and apply, since it started before the target became dead, meaning you still get the lifesteal and everything. Compare that to when you have multiple on-hit effects, which chain after one another in the on-hit phase of the attack - if your e.g. Wit's End damage kills the target that was below e.g. 15 health at the start of the attack, your remaining on-hit effects have their damage events skipped and you do not lifesteal from them.

[@Hylofear]

@@caenen6869 they reduced the cap to 20% :(

[@Saru-Dono]

Damn, amazing explanation, much appreciated

[@thor8606]

I was the sun before it was cool is such a kickass soundtrack choice

[@straightpolo123]

This is an amazing vid 😂 glad it popped up on my recommended list hope to watch more of your vids

[@The_King_Basi]

I love these types if videos that break down concepts and hard to digest info into easy spreadsheets and videos dives. Cheers and I hope you get the recognition for the work on your 2 recent videos

[@AlienSliker]

editing is very intertaining imo. i did it for fun last summer and learned way more than i expected. and yeah Live dummy reaction. respect for the details

[@CaptainTuba]

This is so consise yet, in depth, pls make more, you deserve more followers ❤

[@TheSalmaanMC]

Really like your videos and ability breakdown. Happily subbed. Keep up the good content!

[@dragvs5691]

I love you hylofear thanks for the infographic of Camille I have been trying stuff like this myself but too lazy to do so great job for the cool vid

[@zaccie8781]

awesome video, love those math takes on lol would love to see more ^^

[@verythreatening238]

Tbh you should really become a info type league calculation youtuber, i would watch every single video, keep up, subbed 💵💵🙈🙈 btw im your 100th sub :3

[@markomenalan]

Editing is so taken for granted these days. Good job man, love the videos

[@ozoneislucky]

wait someone else remembers deep league?? what a throwbackkk

[@remusciuciu2840]

Damn this video is so good for a 60 subs channel. Keep it up bro

[@Hylofear]

we were at 30 before the video lol

[@caenen6869]

@@Hylofear KZbin is blowing it up because it hit some sort of metrics threshold. Deserved, though!

[@toxiq5295]

Great music choice and great explanation

[@MagicalMidgetPete]

Thank you. I’m going to try your Camille build on yorick. They removed the lifesteal from summons interaction but I suspect the combination of a sheen item, shojin, and lifesteal from ravenous could still result in some unreal healing now that yorick also has missing health healing in his kit.

[@fantasypvpvideos]

Very good video quality. This channel will probably be growing soon if more videos like this are made.

[@ghibli5111]

Interesting video, if you keep doing this kind of content I'll sub for sure

[@alperaksoy1062]

I really like those documentary league videos bro good content

[@zedus4042]

there's nothing weird about life steal working on her Q as her Q is obviously counted as ability and basic attack at the same time and she's far from the only champ that has that kind of ability. Just for an example, Q abilities of Ezreal, Yasuo, Yone, Nasus, Yorick... count as basic attacks, all of those abilities apply on-hit effects, can critically strike (unless specifically stated that the ability can't crit) and can life steal, that's a common LoL knowledge.

[@Hylofear]

This is true to a certain extent, but a lot of these abilities work in different ways. Ezreal Q is actually all basic damage, with a bundled instance of 0 spell damage for proccing spell effects. Yasuo/Yone Q is the same, but the damage is tagged to ignore lifesteal and other on-hit effects on targets behind the first. Nasus Q can crit (minus the stacking damage), but Camille's Q cannot.

[@coleofthewild]

The closing comment about sleep really resonated with me.

[@sixfolds3633]

we making it our of season 14 with this one 🔥🔥

[@nikitaostroukhov6727]

I've just found your channel and i'm a league veteran since s1. I've pretty much had the same reasoning to merc boots and knew of sheen spaghetti code on other champions, but this is quality stuff. New sub for you

[@nikitaostroukhov6727]

I do wonder if this sequence of decreasing true damage works the same way with Fiora's Q, or is it procced through a passive trigger, rather than Q's on-hit trigger

[@ibrahim5463]

1.2k true damage is nice but having to farm 9933 gold on a champion with only 2 abilitys in her laning is not worth

[@AlienSliker]

shes not that weak in the lane phase, you underestimate her probably. she also has built in movespeed on top of a biggest dash, slow in W and grasp for trades. id say shes just a more difficult fiora, but she absolutely kills it if she gets fed bc no range issues

[@nysticalzs6312]

@@AlienSliker clueless

[@ibrahim5463]

@@AlienSliker have you played camile or are you just basing yor talking on past seasons

[@infiniteearth6996]

@@AlienSlikerlol Camille laning phase is ass compared to other bruisers the fact that she’s has to go grasp when she prefers conqueror especially after Devine is gone is telling other bruisers who scale better than her like fiora Jax Gwen have stronger and easier laning phase 💀

[@einjharrelraca]

@@infiniteearth6996 that is an issue with bruisers over all being busted as fuck right now. camille is still a stronger champ than just about everyone else in the rouster currently. she's just stuck laning against other broken shit. its why we are seeing a massive spike in camille support.

[@Ginganinja9988]

This reminds me of Poppys q before the rework. I used to main her years ago and her q applied sheen just like Camille's except instead of turning it into true damage it turned it into magic damage, but it could also crit, which meant the optimal build path for a oneshot build would be triforce(which gave crit at the time) into infinity edge into void staff.

[@1020justukas]

I hear the starbound OST, you cant hide it from me.

[@1shawn664]

Rito and their spaghetti code out here making all of us second guess spaghetti.

[@philippebaillargeon5204]

Y'all don't even know what the fuck it means. Spaghetti code is bad code but it doesn't mean it has bugs in it. You can have a perfectly bug free code and still be spaghetti code. Stop using that fucking term if you don't know what it means lol. Unless you have seen the source code there is literally know way for you to know if it's spaghetti code since spaghetti code is basically just a term used when the code is hard to maintain because it has bad structure, doesn't respect naming conventions, use tightly coupling, doesn't respect clean code conventions, etc.

[@zera2314]

@@philippebaillargeon5204 you okay?

[@iWhyYT]

New sub, keep it with the great content.

[@yasoumain3902]

Ahh hell nah why is your video so well edited

[@CodeYoo]

This is top-tier content my guy

[@HIaayl]

I hope riot sees this and changes the bug with wardens mail, Thanks for your indepth analysis about my most hated matchup camille.

[@Mast3rGam3Fr3ak]

Can u pls pls tell me hoe u put items on the dummys in trxion? Great vid, i feel the editing part very much

[@DKGDamien]

"Editing more than researching" ain't that the truth

[@warvinn]

A League KZbin video that doesn't pad the content with unrelated gameplay footage and no clickbait too? What is this 2012?

[@itsyourguyskye]

novakids theme is a pleasant surprise

[@willpoggers]

Nice video king

[@Doublejho]

i thought i heard that starbound theme, good taste

[@thomasaquinas399]

Pre-rework poppy used to be convert Sheen/Triforce damage to magic damage, it's part of why triforce was core on her.

[@KunoichiLoL]

Great video, liked it a lot! Speaking of Shojin working on Camille Q despite being an auto, that stuff is a whole chapter on its own. A lot of empowered auto attacks deal ability damage (just like Camille here), yet Shojin is still inconsistent with it: Khazix Passive and Kennen W (passive part) work, Akali passive doesnt. Chogath E works, Shen Q doesnt. I've not tested all listed on the league wiki, but if their list is accurate, that already gives at least 2 exceptions/bugs, if not more. Would love to see you go in-depth on that, if you feel like it.

[@samuelcavalcanti3345]

Is that novakids theme from Starbound? A true gigachad

[@ponyfish157]

this video made me realize that we actually have good use for insanely in depth analyses of leagues systems. Sadly the work required per video would probably not make it worth in todays youtube climate

[@Hylofear]

making this video was a blast, so I hope i can make more in the future!

[@unbrokenriven1455]

key take aways from this video, 1. ninja tabi's work vs camile and it reduces he true dmg so build them ,2. shojin increases her true dmg by 12% so build it when u play camile .

[@LargeMcBottoms]

Editing takes time, ye. Congratz on the research and video

[@odasflex]

banger video man

[@Argun0]

great video

[@jackthelarterns675]

it's starbound ost 😢 feels good asf

[@danilostupic8447]

Great vid

[@akeno6752]

More subs to you my man

[@vraxo8953]

yoo nice vid! keep it up

[@asdamealdeal3070]

good video, i liked it

[@feden1400]

Is Ravenous always better or just in case you want max Q2 True damage? I thought Titanic and its auto-reset were better for overall DPS but unless I misunderstood the tip at the end you seem to imply Ravenous always leads to more damage in every situation.

[@walkelftexasranger]

Depends on situation. If you're not sure, then Ravenous is the better option.

[@Yee-Haw_Bird]

Rav is better for sidelining generally while titanic will be better for team fights.

[@Hylofear]

ravenous is for the true damage hit. if youre falling behind and want to be useful, titanic works. but camilles goal is to dive the backline and oneshot someone, which ravenous is better suited to do

[@diegograjeda7611]

Legend tells he is still sleeping to this day...

[@agentds1624]

And if we are talking about stupide Auto amp spells, lets not forget Darius' W. Back when steraks/trinity gave you bonus base AD you could get a 1200k auto on a carry without problem (if youd ever reach him) while building tank after these two items

[@soulfire8547]

Came for the video, stayed for the starbound OST. Best thing to come out of that game.

[@balrg]

How does Anathema's interact with Camille Q?

[@CoysRamirez]

now go new hydra on 2nd item and see the auto attack bursts

[@clementepalomorincones7621]

Does Camille q2 do %max health true dmg with bork or it doesnt apply since its a spell (kinda), if im not mistaken ezreal q applies it.

[@Hylofear]

It does apply, but it isn't converted to true damage. Sheen is the only on-hit effect that gets converted.

[@ChiliClouds]

bork doesn't even have a %max hp damage at all :)

[@VigsenGamingIV]

I would love a video about making camille Q do as much dmg as possible and calling it "Pushing camille q to its theoretical limit"

[@fordring3306]

as a Camille main I am now playing Fiora, like same build but Fiora feels so MUCH easier during the laning phase

[@pooyamohajer2019]

good content

[@tera4408]

Does alistra damage reduction reduces true damage? If not, plated stell caps shouldn't reduce camille true damage

[@Hylofear]

Alistar ult doesnt reduce true damage, and you're right, steel caps shouldnt work on camille Q. But the reduction happens before the damage is converted to true, so *technically* it's not reducing true damage.

[@thanaa]

good work

[@isabellekwok4634]

Nice video 👍

[@itznukeey]

nice video

[@JamirBae]

don't let riot see this

[@cashmoney3801]

how does sundered sky work here

[@Blob360kek]

delicious video

[@maykosantiago2085]

steelcaps reducing the already shit damage on tf's W gives me crippling depression

[@David-jn1gg]

What happened to deep?? Does anyone know

[@masterarselyn6470]

wait, how did you put items on a dummy?

[@pantheonfr]

I love this video,I used to play Camille,it got boring as hell just winning for free😂

[@i0kiVids]

There's a reason this video is blowing up -- super informative and sharp editing. Keep it up man!

[@user-nn9zh3bn3q]

If you wanna get into bugs in lol look at rengar that champ is just crazy when it comes to bugs

[@mspectrum]

Wow amazing content , UP UP

[@koin799]

rossboomsocks popularity went down along with deep league channel sadly

[@_Flame9029]

bro camille's theme was gonna come to the best part before u ended the video 😭

[@pranavganapathisubbu5174]

wow good video

[@puddingsimon2626]

It’s basically just a Chogat ult on your Q, and it’s so laughable easy for you to hit, as in there is no point in kiting Camille if you somehow manage that during her reactivation window, it’s just too long.

[@polbanroth668]

1:05 I hope thats a joke as riot aren't playing favourites by making her strong with sheen items she just doesn't have any other good synergy with most other items

[@mspectrum]

what's the icon on the right at 3:11 ?

[@Hylofear]

Nilah's W: Jubilant Veil

[@liammorrison4284]

how do you give a training dummy items?

[@MouldyCheesePie]

Recently they allow you to copy ur items to dummy

[@McGeet]

Does sundered sky crit the true damage?

[@McGeet]

Nvm cam q doesn't crit

[@goldenarmour7975]

Cho R on Q. RAYOOOOOOOOT.

[@MeleeMinion]

Very well made for a small fanbase containing youtube channel. I envision you in a great place in the future, making tens and thousands if you keep this up. Next video suggestion : Akali. Her kit is very buggy. Maybe you could talk about how her passive is coded since it's a very weirdly coded ability. Also, her E kinda.

[@heulg.darian2536]

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA???!?!?!?!?!? Lich bane applies lifesteal? WTF I never knew that.

[@MrMooooole]

Have some algorithm on me.

[@duyvan247]

Fcking legend

[@tuanlecong1518]

And still I manged to go 0/11 w camille

[@andrescruz8445]

riot should nerf garen, he has camille Q as his ultimate, so broken man

[@Apoz]

Ninja tabi/plated steelcaps used to be sooo bad, now they are just bad, because there are no proper tank items anymore :( Jaksho & force of nature I guess? Everything has HP, which used to be the weakest relative health stat in the game with the worst gold/stat. Now all tank items have horrendous gold/stat. So now every 'tank' champion goes full asssasin (Gallio AP, rammus AP, grag AP, maok AP, ornn AD/cdr, zac AP) and the champs that can actually use HP (Sion & zac) are actually super squishy, atleast they get dmg from HP.

[@castkeyboard]

How did you give the dummy items in practice tool?

[@Hylofear]

new feature that allows you to copy your inventory to a dummy. You can also give yourself/dummies status effects and spell shields

[@redpanpan7979]

but like most of her power budget is in her q and she is fkin useless if it didnt apply her items onhits to the true dmg.

[@einjharrelraca]

we could say that about every champion who has ever been nerfed ever. "what do you mean we are removing zeri's shield stealing passive and bonus ms while shielded, thats her entire power budget, she's fucking useless if she doesnt have the only thing she does." and what is exactly what riot did?

[@redpanpan7979]

but camille isnt problematic at all ive never found too many isues with the champ she has an extremely abusable lane phase if your competent at the game, without her late game pay off the champ would be absolutely horrible even if they buff her base kit. would need a rework to actually make her useful without her "special" interactions@@einjharrelraca

[@vyyr]

But there is no way we are comparing current camile to prerework zeri

[@agentds1624]

Wouldn't it be funny if press the attack also amps the damage of the q because its a spell ;), because then we definitely need a table when its better then conqueror.

[@Hylofear]

PTA doesn't work on true damage, even with how buggy Camille Q is. However, it does wonders for your physical damage, so its good into ranged champions.

[@Nifty143-]

Meanwhile Renek's W doesn't work as a spell for Shojin, nor does it work as an auto for Sundered. Cool spaghetti Riot!

[@einjharrelraca]

look. no one but renekton players want his w to work with navori's, and thats what the result would be.

[@harrysliyoko8809]

Imagine if it did , it would be completely broken lol .

[@calvin3379]

IMO Unless you have more than 100 armour you cannot complain about the ability. So what it did 1k true damage, thats the exact same 2k physical damage which most squishy ADCS can do from range. The tanks with 500 armour absolutely can complain about 1k true damage because thats the same as taking 6K physical damage which cant be done by an adc in 2 seconds

[@H1nted]

Yea tabis are not legal

[@monkey3101]

Lifesteal isn't broken at all, olaf barely heals on champions for examlpe.