Can Anime Be Too Pretty For Its Own Good?

[@sunnydong9069]

I think this is a very interesting perspective to hear, as someone who is a big fan of Hyouka. Digi is right that Hyouka contains an insane amount of animation in almost every second of the show, and for a more animation savvy person it's almost hard to ignore. The reason why I, don't see it as an over animation problem boils down to 2 reasons: 1, the animations are almost all detailed motion of everyday life (which while being the most subtle form of motion to notice, it is also the most technically difficult motion to draw), so it creates an immersive experience to something akin to watching actual real life footages, rather than being distracting with unnaturalness; 2, the most entertaining point of Hyouka to me, is always how it shows the audience the beauty of mundanity, and the animation style perfectly captures that. But these two points are also based on the fact that in Hyouka's world, its depiction of movement aligns with my expectations of how motion should look like. And if someone's view of normal motion is a lot more subdued than how Hyouka choose to depict its world, I can understand why there's a disconnect of being distracted and seeing it as over animated. This also leads to potentially interesting discussion about sakuga. As a sakuga fan, I love seeing any technically impressive cut of animation, but ultimately if a particular scene doesn't immerse you or even just straight up alienated you because of how it looks and feel, then you shouldn't be begrudged for "not getting it". In fact analysis on why a technically proficient scene failed to resonate could be interesting to hear too.

[@ew275x]

Interesting point about the Sakuga. It's my big disagreement with the Sakuga fans who defend the Naruto Vs. Pain filler fight. It is a fluid fight for sure, but I do think it breaks the image of Pain as a stoic villain and the drawings don't flow well and it is too cartoony for what is supposed to be a fight between a stoic badass and Naruto being consumed by the bloodthristy Kyubbi. Pain running a la roadrunner and getting whack-a moled and screaming like a lunatic is something more fit for a flash parody. Also Pain changes attitude, sometimes a punch doesn't phase him and sometimes it does.

[@WD_Batora]

I think Digi is just scrapping the bottom of the barrel with that "overanimation" argument. And I hope he realizes how stupid it is because that same criticism can be applied to K-On!.

[@KuroiPK]

I have to agree with you it mostly very natural and it seems more like a film than an animation, which I really like. But an other point that I think that Hyoka is really good with is their supernatural depictions of special/important thinks like for example the first meeting of Oreki and Chitanda, does are extremely memorable scenes.

[@Jo-ns7qj]

+ew275x To be frank, the only fight in the Naruto Universe that got me was the short Rock Lee vs Kimimaro drunken boxing segment. It had a fast build up, consistent character placement and a proper choreography. Characters didn't swap sides every other cut and they didn't cover unbelievable distances between cuts either. That was a well-placed Sakuga treat. The Naruto vs Pain fight might be good on a technical side, but I'd agree that it felt rather disconnected from the actual show. A bit like what Digibro complains about Hyouka. And I too thought Hyouka was a bit more straining to watch than other shows, though I still like it quite a lot over all. But I have to say that starting with 2012 their shows were really polarizing with me on the direction and storyboard side, with some shows entertaining me and others flat out not connecting at all.

[@ew275x]

+Jo the thing with the Naruto vs. Pain fight is that it was padding, it is original anime material. I think the problem is that fluidity is used instead of strong solid drawings (one of the 12 principles). It's also i think out of character for Pain. With KyoAni I think the problem for me is that they lack a hook besides the great visuals. if I want to see cute girls I'd rather watch Yuru Yuri because the girls are at least gay and like digi was I am big into yuri shipping.

[@MANJYOMETHUNDER111]

'Never assume malice when stupidity would suffice.'

[@MindForgedManacle]

Brian MacLeod: Probably not the most sound advice when you're dealing with things which involve an element of audience-manipulation. General advice is good... in general. But there are often specific cases (e.g. advertising) where *not* assuming malice or intent would be foolish.

[@MANJYOMETHUNDER111]

Mind-Forged Manacles If I'm too naive, you're too cynical.

[@MindForgedManacle]

Brian MacLeod: Really? You really don't think that designers are, in a very straightforward sense, trying to manipulate their audience? That's part of what it means to be a designer. Advertisers try to manipulate people into buying their products; that's a self-evident. Similarly, it's quite common in media to tease the viewer that something will happen, irrespective of whether or not the producers plan on follow through. It's a very basic tactic in all sorts of media.

[@MANJYOMETHUNDER111]

Mind-Forged Manacles Maybe to a cynic.

[@MagnakayViolet]

"But there are often specific cases (e.g. advertising) where not assuming malice or intent would be foolish" How often do those 'specific cases' appear?

[@TinyZu]

Good guy Digi providing me with hours of thoughtful audio while I'm grinding.

[@sahinattila2754]

yeah, I'm listening to this while grinding in dark souls 2

[@DestructoPop]

TinyZu Yep.

[@EXoDuZ302]

really nice to listen to something thought provoking when playing a single player

[@MarvinDigi]

Don't grind too hard, you might get hurt

[@ToriBoshi1]

Meta

[@evanever]

I haven't even watched this show but I still watch these videos...

[@leenselwadi2503]

fat BOI YOU GOTTA WATCH IT ITS SO GOOD

[@Oban2006]

fat Same here, im not a fan of music anime

[@muizzsiddique]

+Shadowtechnik Think of it as a sports series with a bunch of drama sprinkled everywhere. Essentially it's a class that tries to work together to come #1 in a live performance competition by working on their teamwork and the inner conflicts of other students, heck, there's even a morale episode. The ball this time is harmony in the sound and the game is the orchestra.

[@iCrimy]

It's boring but looks good, PRETTY COLORS, SOMEONE CALL THATANIMEPLEB! It really isn't enjoyable for everyone.

[@thegreatcheesedemon]

Season 1 is extremely good. Season 2 is eh. In season 2, the tension between the MC being straight in the books and a lesbian in the anime makes it feel awkward, and the first half isn't as interesting as the second half, but it's still worth watching if you watch season 1 and agree that it's extremely good.

[@qpopuiuzmnmb]

I had a best friend once as a child. We would have sleepovers, we would jump rope together, we share bags of chips together, we even slept in the same bed since a night of sleepover was so cold and the heater was broken. We never saw that as acting gay. Best friends can act intimate without having romantic tinges. We WOULD hold hands if we were trying to get through a big crowd without losing each other, we hug when our football team won the match. I NEVER saw Eupho as a yuri-bait show. I see those gorgeously animated sequences, bute never from a cynical point of view that 'oh theres the bait.' yada yada. I always loved the show as an ensemble drama, depicting the teenage years of being part of a big band, orchestra, choir/whatever, and how mashing these atmospheres of competition, teamwork, musicianship and ideologies concerning music, differing age groups (meaning different priorities, worldviews, attitudes to school) and teen angst can create excitement, anguish and ultimately great memories one will appreciate growing up. Currently I'm 3 years into university, yet I still remember myself arguing with a member chorister about getting the solo part (I eventually did) in high school, I remember how amazing we sounded on stage, singing water night by eric whitacre and how I proud I was. That was EXACTLY the feeling the creators and ultimately the author was trying to create. So to fault them for depicting intense teenage feelings and mistaking them for yuri as being their fault of misrepresenting/ implying wrong 'nuggets of subtext' is in my opinion, reductive.

[@qpopuiuzmnmb]

Also, the assumption that anime has to limit its creative heights to 'important' moments only, I think is somewhat problematic: how can the medium strive to elevate itself to new grounds if we establish goalposts for the artists and say 'ok, don't try to be creative, unless the narrative demands it'. Hyouka's appeal isn't that chitanda throws the viewer into another world every time she gets curious (although...that's the entire point of the narrative, the curiousity of a girl that's so infectious, it drives the protagnist to see more beauty in his own mundane world, etc), but that the visuals drive a certain sense of egotistical need to...well...ENTERTAIN you, make you think about the meaning behind the spectacle. 'overanimated' is a word I almost never like to use...its entire concept is limiting; cynical towards creativity.

[@BranchesOfYgg]

I didn't say "don't be creative." There are ways to do this kind of thing well--I think Kill la Kill could teach any show a thing or two about how to make every moment something fun and distinct. But it's a matter of matching the animation to what's actually supposed to be happening/emotionally conveyed.

[@qpopuiuzmnmb]

And my comment of refusing artists grounds to creativity is not a direct attack on your video. I do think you made your points clear enough in terms of your preferences. It's just a hyperbolic extension of a point I am trying to make that may not entirely be in line with the discussion, but a point I want to make nonetheless.

[@spoopyblackies8896]

tbh, if every show was animated like Kill la Kill I'd probably kill myself. It's animation is amazing for it's own story and in that context. Euphonium is not such an extravagant fantasy story. It has to be rooted in reality to a great extent.

[@ThumpingThromnambular]

nigga you gay

[@takatotakasui8307]

Digi's two mustaches are distracting me.

[@Jo-ns7qj]

The Endless Eight part of Haruhi was awesome for me because they went so far in changing all those little details in each episode. From a directing standpoint I think this was probably the most creative series I have seen with digital animation. They pleased me very well.

[@Hawkeye446]

I loved that 8 episode run of Haruhi season 2. It was so cool to experience that repeating summer along with that poor future robot girl who could actually remember EVER SINGLE REPEAT. She lived through some 10,000 summers or something crazy like that and the opportunity to share a tiny bit of that experience was unique and surreal I am so glad they did it.

[@pawndidater]

"When anime cuts to power lines, you're not supposed to think about the power lines" Unless it's Serial Experiments Lain, I think. Maybe. I wish I knew how to watch that show.

[@SlasherScott1945]

well if they were going for beauty the sure as fuck nailed it. shows fucking stunning visually

[@eruno_]

I don't agree. There is never enough animation. Hyouka was a masterpiece specifically because of its animation & atmosphere. btw the whole *good looking scene = romance* perception needs to die.

[@Rugybrat]

It's not always about the animation. There's also the atmosphere.

[@JerryFlowersIII]

The fact the Kyoto Animation made The Endless Eight is sill amazing to me. No studio in the right mind would animate that and I imagine watching it as it aired was annoying but I still have so much respect for going though with that. And yeah I watched all 8 I think it adds to how extreme the situation was.

[@JerryFlowersIII]

Also I *adore* Miss Kobayashis Dragon Maid. It has all lot of layers and tones, and appears to have a lot of heart having suddenly a really strong emotional queue for just a few seconds but still coming across great to me.

[@TheNxtGmer]

I like this comment section. A lot of people are giving their opinions very respectfully and even explaining thoroughly about why they disagree with your own opinions in the video. I haven't seen anyone get over defensive and crazy (so far) and I feel like I'm breathing a fresh take of air. This is nice.

[@GoldenPincers]

I can see where you're coming from, but I can only partially agree. I think it's amazing and impressive that Hibike, Hyouka or other KyoAni shows go far into animation quality and techniques. I agree with the perspective of Sunny Dong (pinned comment) about Hyouka, how the point was to portray the beauty of mundanity and "normal things" because Oreki couldn't see said beauty. It was like Oreki was gradually seeing the same beauty we did thanks to the great animation. Now, about the yuri-thing in Hibike... In Spring 2016, we had Tanaka-kun Is Always Listless by Silver Link. There are various moments in the series where it could be interpreted that Tanaka loves his friend Oota in a romantic way, in the way he comments about how he wishes Oota and him could live together forever, etc. But, at the same time, the show also makes it clear that said gay-love isn't an actual thing, because 1) his thought of "living together with Oota" and "Oota carrying him" are products of his insane laziness, and 2) it is showed that Tanaka has an interest (albeit simingly small) in girls like when he is starring at Shiraishi's boobs on multiple occasions, and that one scene with Echizen. The simple visuals used in this anime also help lessen the feeling of "Tanaka loves Oota". So, while I'm very happy Hibike looks so gorgeous and I want more shows to be like that, I agree that Hibike may have gone too far. Because to me, Hibike and Tanaka-kun have a similar possibly-maybe gay relationship going on, but while Tanaka-kun handles it more comically and well-reminds us that it's not the case, Hibike makes it seem it is the case through its even-more-gorgeous scenes featuring said possibly-maybe gay relationship.

[@CrowScarecrow]

What stands out in this video for me is the fact that Digi complains about the excess of animation in a series turning it into something that tires you when you see it, like in Hyouka, while he has repeatedly said that one of the strongest points of " Kill la Kill" is the fact that the staff animated as much as they could in the series putting animation in each of the scenes, although they could have avoided it.

[@stealthmissionpath]

Crow Scarecrow It all comes down to a shows purpose and intention for adding the excessive animation in the first place. Did the director add the extra animation to help the presentation of a scene or did they add it for the sake of adding it? In Kill La Kill, the show was meant to be over the top. Lots of moments of animations were pushed to their absolute extremes, too the point that it was borderline cartoony. The excessive animation and cartoon nature were just some of the tools used to reinforce the over the top nature of KlK. In a show such as Hyouka, the show had a more serious mood. In scenes where characters were just communicating, the excessive animation failed. It distracted rather than support the tone of the show.

[@CrowScarecrow]

That's totally reasonable, but it's not a valid answer to the contradiction of Digi because in the video in which he defends the animation of "Kill la Kill" he talks about how boring are the scenes of the series in which the characters spend a long time sitting and talking like in Fate UBW, he talks about how that series looks pretty but is boring to look at due to the lack of animation, he says in that video that if you do not see the subtitles and you only concentrate on the animation you will realize how boring it is and that's why "Kill the Kill" deserves admiration by not slowing down the animation even when it could do so but now he complains about Hyouka saying they could remove unnecessary animations when the characters might just be sitting and talking, don't you see the contradiction? You can defend the fact that you believe that a series is more enjoyable by distributing the animation to leave the quiet moments with a simpler animation and the important moments with a more intense animation taking into account what the series wants to convey (which is what Digi is doing in this video and what you do in your response). In the other hand you can defend that you think that a series is more enjoyable when the animation keeps you entertaining always by animating as much as possible (which is what Digi did in the Kill la Kill video), but you can not defend one and the other simultaneously. As I said, your answer is totally reasonable if we only take into account what Digi said in this video, but if we see the video of Kill la Kill we realize that he criticizes the series in which the characters talk quietly without much animation (like Fate UBW), although that is the correct way to show those scenes according to himself in this video and according to you.

[@stealthmissionpath]

Yes, in that video, Digi did praise KlK for how it lessened the amount of scenes with little animation and added as much animation as possible, however, that is not the only reason why Digi praised KlK's animation. That's only half of it. The second reason why he praised it was because of the way KlK used its animation to communicate its world, emotions, and characters to the audience. Excessive animation alone will not work unless it is used to convey something in the show. In the same KlK video, Digi mentions this point. Just like how he criticizes anime with many boring still shots, Digi criticized how many anime add sakuga without any meaning behind it. It wasn't added to reinforce and idea or communicate more about a character without words; it was just their to look "cool". Digi stated that KlK's animation works because it animates both movement and emotion, not just movement, in both it's animation heavy scenes (used to convey relationship between characters etc.) and it's limited animation scenes (used for comedic effect). Note that there isn't a problem with limited animation, as long as it's used to convey something within the show. The main reason why people such as Digi may see scenes that use it as boring is because either 1.) during most of those stand still scenes, characters expo dump rather than show don't tell, or 2.) the director missed out on a chance to use animation to convey something within the scene. Digi's main criticisms about the excess animation in Hyouka and Hibike were that (in Digi's perspective) the animation did not support what the director wanted to convey. The Hibike director tried to show how the girls were strengthening their friendship, but the animation contradicts this by suggesting that they are into each other romantically. Tldr: There was never a contradiction in Digi's statements.

[@CrowScarecrow]

"that is not the only reason why Digi praised KlK's animation. That's only half of it. The second reason why he praised it was because of the way KlK used its animation to communicate its world, emotions, and characters to the audience. Excessive animation alone will not work unless it is used to convey something in the show. " all of this is pointless, I never said that the only point of Digi was the amount of animation and my intention was never to criticize Kill la Kill, you really are getting off the subject defending Kill la kill when Kill la Kill was never the problem. My point is that Digi was saying "Look how boring are the scenes of the series in which the characters spend time sitting and talking like in Fate UBW while Kill la Kill put all this animation in that same type pf scenes, that's the reason why we should respect this series" meanwhile he's saying in this video "When I look at Hyouka I end up tired of the over-animation at times when the characters could just be sitting and talking", the problem is not Kill la kill, you're focusing on something completely different from what I'm talking about. I'm not defending or criticizing any of the series mentioned, if you like the animation of Killl la Kill or Hyouka or Fate is a personal preference, again, you're focusing in the wrong thing, the problem is that if you recognize that over-animate scenes in which the characters could be just sitting and talking is pointless and you could have the characters doing just that (which is just what Digi is doing in this video and what you're still doing) then you can not criticize a series by saying it's boring for doing that exact thing (what's what Digi did in the Kill la Kill video criticizing Fate). I'll say it again because it seems that you do not understand the point, if you want to focus on a series it would have to be in Fate UBW because that was the series that Digi criticized saying that it was boring to look at for lack of animation in the scenes In which his characters are sitting and talking, while here criticizes the fact that there is more animation in Hyouka saying that the characters could simply be sitting and talking. This is something that happens a lot with youtubers who make criticism, they can criticize anything and their fans will give them the reason, but if someone points out a mistake of those same youtubers their fans will never accept a criticism, they will never accept that their favorite youtuber could make a mistake while he/she lives by pointing out the mistakes of others. That's why I know you'll never understand what I'm trying to say, and that's why I'm just gonna say good bye and god luck.

[@gwynthefirstlord8494]

Crow Scarecrow well said bro

[@venturelord32]

That's an interesting perspective on the subject. For all the time I've been in the anime community, I've always gotten a sort of "KyoAni can do no wrong" vibe. While I've enjoyed most all the shows I've seen from them, I'm glad that you've offered me a new viewpoint, subtlety and moderation.

[@oposdeo]

That's a pretty cool perspective. That scene of Reina pulling her hair back (in the thumbnail) is like "Holy shit, that's dreamy," not "holy shit, what a great friend."

[@toastyman111]

Not sure why people think a studio would intentionally try and draw an audience in only to bait and switch them. They're not going to buy your BDs after that, are they?

[@ew275x]

I'd say since it's niche, it's better than nothing for them. You don't alienate the big audiences and force the niche audience to watch because they are starved for products. Imagine I made a mecha anime and added some stuff for let's say foot fetishists like the mecha being activated by a foot massage, but keep it really clean and PG and don't go into stuff that would alienate non-foot fetishists like toe sucking. The foot fetishists are more likely to watch my anime because well it does have some good foot massages and maybe a scene implied some toe sucking? so yeah, that's how it's supposed to work.

[@MindForgedManacle]

stutter: If that were the case, cynical media wouldn't exist. But since it does exist, you're argument can't be true.

[@fisherwomen1515]

they do it all time in romance anime, there pretty much never end up together but just drag things out the whole time.

[@claudeyaz]

stutter Queer baiting isnt about baiting and switching. It is about using a lot of subtext without delivery on the relationship. It is using LGBTQ couples as sexual objects instead of genuine relationship. Like if every drama had romance novel level couplings, with no relationship delivery in the end.

[@KonataGirly]

All the scenes with Kumiko and Reina feel like that one scene in Lucky Star when the girls go to that concert and Konata kind of like...almost seems to fall for Kagami? That scene is what made me ship konakaga when I first watched it in like 6th grade. It just seemed so intimate and like the show was trying to imply more than just friendship. Hibike feels like that.

[@NykowPalalum]

Yeah, this is not the first time KyoAni depicts "really close" relationship between girls. Chuunibyou even had a yuri-fanservicey OVA episode.

[@MonkeyShinesu]

What the fuck is this video? Great visuals and animation is an end in itself

[@maxmustermann9058]

It is, but it can be at odds with other aspects, genius scientific analysis also has inherent worth, but it would likely feel out of place, in a hentai.

[@Narlaw1199]

I won't say you're butthurt because your expectations were wrong... But maybe KyoAni is just not your thing, because the over-animatuon you say bothers you, is just for the simple sake of beauty. That is what makes KyoAni good in that regard compared to what was done in Grimgar for example, where over-animation doesn't even look good, because it feels unnatural. For me KyoAni shows just how pretty even the most simple place or situation can be... it evokes me the same feelings as nostalgia maybe? Like, the world is presented exageratedely beautiful, just like a nostalgic memory.

[@electricant55]

How can KyoAni be not his thing if K-on is his favorite anime of all time?

[@wardrobedweller9894]

Uuuhm...his favorite show is K-ON. And i'm pretty sure 100% of the time until now Digi has only shown lots of adimiration for the studio. This is probably not such a big problem for him, it's just Hyouka and a few other nitpicks.

[@motherlove8366]

I think the fact that many people share the same problem he has with the anime would maybe hint that there's so blame to be put on the show's part.

[@gufishanemometer6450]

Digi loves KyoAni, he just isnt blinded to loving every one of their shows like your average kyoanus

[@EnrixKeeper]

Luc Hayward The thing is those people aren't complaining about it being over-animated haha But yeah, even if it isn't the 'same' problem, something didn't click with a part of the audience.

[@straymerodach4713]

you say the audience is gonna be pissed when the Yuri-baiting turned out to not be Yuri, but Yuri on Ice turned out to be one of the most popular anime of last year!

[@jpzadran4774]

First: YOI didn't just bait it, Yaoi is canon over there, including a kiss. Hibike barely scratched the yuri theme. Second: The yaoi theme in YOI is definitely not the only point for the show being so popular. Rather, it being a sports anime on ice skating, the (sometimes) good animation, the mc's anxiety, the comedy, the recent airing (right before the awards)

[@straymerodach4713]

i think you are confused,let me explain, we are talking about Yuri-baiting, not Yaoi-baiting. i know plenty of people who expected Yuri on Ice to be about WOMEN because of the Yuri in the name.

[@jpzadran4774]

Ah, okay, but I was confused because of how you compared the popularity of YOI with your supposed yuri baiting because of its name. Nearly nobody thought Yuri on Ice is about yuri baiting after watching the first ep, they coincidentally named the mc Yuri, like how can you see yuri-baiting here.

[@michaelaloser5985]

Technically that's not really "yuri-bating" because queer-bating is more about actual content rather than just a misinformed audience. It would take seconds for me to realize the main characters are gay men and not gay women. Queer-baiting is more like leading the audience to believe through hints that there's a forming relationship or sexual tension when they deliberately won't follow through.

[@ira__s]

Yeah, whoever went to actually see YOI thinking it was going to have women in it, yet alone yuri should have used little more thought beforehand. Just one look at the cover shows that the cast is almost all men so that should hint something.

[@wardrobedweller9894]

I've never had a problem with Hyouka like that. To be honest, i never noticed those stuff. I just always thought it's really beautiful, and the shots that are suposed to be something more always work, so that problem never crossed my mind.

[@camichan19]

Your comments here on animation in "real" moments versus more menial ones really made me think of Kare Kano (terrible budget trickling down the line aside...) where it really took a differentiating style to the comedic & light-hearted scenes, as compared to the beautiful manga panels and cinematic shots when it wanted to really emphasize the romance. I think I can add that as to yet again, one of the million reasons that I loved that show. Thanks for letting us hear your thoughts!

[@Ky-sz4fb]

Digi, typically I can sympathize with your perspective but I wholeheartedly disagree with you in regards to Hyouka. Every single shot in that show is framed with deliberate purpose and meaning. I believe you are doing a disservice to the team behind Hyouka when you say it lacks "cinematic cohesion"-as you did in your Secret Santa video a couple of years back, a sentiment you seem to be echoing once more here. Hyouka is absolutely my favorite show of all time, so from my perspective it kind of feels as if you are missing the point. Cuts that focus on Oreki are almost always closeups; they're tight frames that focus squarely on his face, and that's a reflection of Oreki's character. Oreki hardly moves at all, and KyoAni compensates for that with detailed expressions in these closeups. It's difficult to imagine these scenes framed in any other way. Likewise, Satoshi receives wide shots to accompany his exuberant personality. Detailed hand gestures are an important facet of the way Satoshi moves, so this is emphasized in his cuts. Hyouka often cuts between these different types of frames repeatedly as a means of demonstrating the difference in each character's movements. When Chitanda exclaims "I'm curious" and dominates the frame, it's portrayed that way because she's enthusiastically invading Oreki's space; this creates impact and feeling. The classrooms get unique angles to bring beauty to the mundane (one of the show's core themes). All of Hyouka is framed and spliced together in this manner, and I believe that it enhances the experience-certainly it doesn't distract from it, IMO. You offered the criticism that because Hyouka is so lively with its cinematography, it must then rely on "changing reality" in its big scenes. The example you provided from episode one, where Oreki is interacting with Chitanda for the first time, happens to be one of my favorite scenes so I'll do my best at breaking it down. The entire episode up until this point had been building up Oreki's "energy conservationist" life perspective, depicting him as this unmotivated, "life is gray" type of guy. It's worth mentioning that this only takes up no more than two to three minutes of the episode, Hyouka wastes no time getting down to business. As Oreki enters the room and sees Chitanda for the first time, time is warped. His footsteps echo as he slowly approaches her, and when she finally turns around the scene lingers on Oreki staring at her before he is snapped back to reality. A bit later we're treated to the cut in question; Chitanda is insistent that Oreki helps solve a mystery and completely invades his personal space. At this point, he's completely entranced by her as reality shifts and flowers begin to bloom and her hairs entangles him and the two just stare at each other. This is a beautiful metaphor for that feeling of infatuation or "love at first sight", as well as emphasizing just how thoroughly shattered Oreki's bullshit life philosophy is. He's enchanted by Chitanda's wondrous spell, and there's no escaping from it. My being able to rattle this off completely on memory alone, and the fact that it stuck with you, is a testament to the scene's impact. In all my viewing of cinema, I don't think there's a moment that captures that overwhelming feeling of youthful infatuation quite like KyoAni does it here. It's one of my favorite scenes in all of anime, and yes, while reality did warp it doesn't mean that it was any less impactful. There isn't too many scenes like that in Hyouka; the so-called use of "reality changing" as you put it isn't a regular occurrence. There's really only one other instance that comes immediately to mind, and it takes place in the finale. Reality doesn't really even warp to the same extent that it did in that scene, it's more akin to the time slowdown that preceded it. So I'm at a loss with where else this really takes place to create impact. There's other visual metaphor scenes, but they aren't "big scenes". If you're referring to Hyouka's tendency to utilize experimental animation to bolster it's mystery exposition scenes, I don't think you can really berate KyoAni for that. Any other studio probably wouldn't have had the characters simply sitting around discussing the mystery; I imagine that no matter the studio there would be some sort of cutaway or shift in animation styles to make the scenes more entertaining. In that regard, KyoAni succeeded in spades because I was totally sold and immersed in these scenes, not distracted. What could have otherwise been boring dialogue is brought vividly to life in a fun and creative way, and Hyouka never uses the same art style twice. It really makes these scenes digestable and rewatchable, and I love them for that. If you don't take my word for it, then rewatch Hyouka. But if you're expecting a forthright and easy watch, then look elsewhere-Hyouka is a very subtle and subdued show. The character development is often told through actions, rather than words, and many scenes are almost entirely reliant on clever framing to convey emotions or information. "Every scene is full of constant hyperactive cutting, which often puts the camera in wildly different, even nonsensical places, as if the proverbial cameraman is getting bored of filming this conversation and just starts dicking around to see what kind of cool shots he can get." You said this back in your Secret Santa video for Hyouka, and that statement has always bothered me, and since you reiterated that sentiment here, I thought that I would offer my rebuttal. Like I said, every shot in Hyouka feels deliberate and purposeful and feels natural. I never once was distracted or less invested from the narrative as a result Hyouka's detailed animation and brilliant cinematography. Hyouka brought beauty to the mundane, in the same way that Chitanda breathed life into Oreki. And I think that's pretty damn awesome. When I have the capacity to create a video analyzing Hyouka in its entirety, I plan to do just that. Kinda-edit: So before posting this comment I refreshed the page and read the pinned comment, which helped me to understand your perspective a bit more. Sorry if this came across as mean-spirited or dismissive, that definitely wasn't the intent. Also, I can't speak for Hibike Euphonium, as I'm not nearly as familiar with that show as I am Hyouka. Loved the video!

[@Ky-sz4fb]

Also, I can't speak for Hibike Euphonium, as I'm not nearly as familiar with that show as I am Hyouka. Loved the video!

[@NambaFly]

Loved Hyouka and couldn't agree more! However, as much as the 'reality changing' scenes did demonstrate particular narratively significant moments in the show, I did feel that some were too visually jarring and broke up this 'subdued' flow the show more than likely had up until said point. Of course it's completely subjective, and extravagant, experimental exposition (alliteration not intended) scenes such as these are naturally going to give red flags for some viewers. Of course like you said it demonstrates the emotions and sense of the situation quite beautifully, but for me it warped my then current thoughts on the shows aesthetic and storytelling. The vivacity of the episode one Chitanda scene completely broke my grasp on the narrative and aesthetic I had built up until that point. However, that very well may be completely what Kyoani were going for, and clearly it resonated well with a multitude of people. Think Hyouka might need a rewatch! Edit: I am basing these opinions mainly on the episode one scene, and partly with a couple more of the mystery exposition scenes. But I honestly can't vividly recall these moments down to absolute shot composition and dialogue, so let me know if anything I said was invalid.

[@Ky-sz4fb]

Interesting perspective, though I think some of what you are saying aligns with Digi's thoughts. It's worth mentioning that the "reality shifting" scenes (which are really just representations of what's occurring within Oreki's subconscious) gradually decrease as the show goes on-yet another metaphor for Oreki's changing life philosophy (the show is seriously brimming with all these little allegories). As Oreki finds beauty within the world through Chitanda, the nature of the show changes to reflect that. This of course comes to a climax in the finale, where the entire tone and color palette of the show changes one last time for that ultimate catharsis. I can understand how the vivacity of the scene may have shattered your grasp on the show's tone and mood (and perhaps your immersion). I believe I had an experience somewhat akin to that, yet instead of detracting from the experience, it enhanced it tenfold. I was completely blown away; the show spent its opening scenes building itself up to be one thing and thoroughly shattered my projection within the first ten minutes (this also aligns with the show's overarching theme of perspective). So it was a very special scene for me; it was something I had not really seen done with such sophistication and style before, especially in anime. I think it's something you'd appreciate more on a rewatch than a first viewing if it was really that disruptive for you (though I'm pretty sure this disruption was precisely what KyoAni was going for, per aforementioned reasons-just looking at the way the scene was built up to and directed). So that's just a bit more of an elaboration of my thoughts regarding the scene, hope it was helpful. It was interesting to hear your thoughts.

[@cameronlai6264]

Thanks for acknowledging that some people were able to interpret the subtext using unquestionably romantic imagery as an extremely exaggerated visual metaphor for a pure adolescent admiration/friendship; because it makes it easy to accept your slander :p at one of my favorite anime in years, seemingly because I find myself enjoying things that involve people making a big fuss about interpersonal relationships, which doesn't at all seem to be your thing. Also now I don't have to stay up at night thinking i should make a video essay to try and express such a thing.

[@Thunder-Sky]

Wow. Comments lead Digi to release two videos within a few hours of each other. That's pretty awesome. I love the perspective this gives into both Digi's thoughts, but Digi himself. I definitely get the feel that he really cares about this show for him to keep having all these thoughts to share.

[@jules69140]

Beautiful and impressive animation for beautiful and endearing characters and plotline, I for one think that they go together very well. Those powerful scenes in Hibike! Euphonium never fail to give me goosebumps. P.S : Good video by the way, as always.

[@iseng4rd]

queerbaiting is a western concept, and mainly applies to western shows because its about audiences wanting lgbt representation and lgbt centered shows, but the creators pulling back and going "nah". in japan, yuri explicitly panders to straight males and yaoi to straight females, with a few exceptions here and there. japanese viewers who watch hibike, free!, and so on and so forth know what they sign up for. id like for my lesbians to be canon as much as anyone else, but what can you do?

[@MindForgedManacle]

starinquiry: Not sure it being a western concept means it isn't applicable to non-western media. A show can queer-bait for reasons other than representation (titilation, for example).

[@iseng4rd]

mmm yeah, true!

[@axellis8333]

In the early parts of the video when you were talking about Kyo-ani straying away from fan-service where it would seem obvious for it to be my first thoughts went right to Kobayashi's dragon maid. There is a scene where Kobayashi is chilling in the bathtub and Tohru comes in to wash her back, and that's all that happens. It was the most tame bath scene I have ever seen in my life. To top it off the dragon loli comes in to take a bath with them but the camera never goes below the top part of her head only showing hair. I was so shocked and happy with that bath scene I seriously got teary eyed. When you take time to stray away from the easy or normal route in something like that it really helps to drive in the message you're trying to deliver, which is that Kobayashi, Tohru and Kanna are a family.

[@adisillusioneddork618]

Short answer: Yes. Go watch Violet evergarden if you don't believe me

[@ew275x]

"KyoAni is the least cynical anime studio" Come on Digi they are way more cynical than TRIGGER and Science Saru for example. I'd also say MAPPA is way less cynical. KyoAni makes super mainstream shows that don't challenge the audience in any way, which is fine, but it is cynical. They would be unable to make something that didn't have guaranteed success and didn't involve cute girls/boys. I'd also say they are rather prudish, so i don't understand why they made Amagi and Musaigen Phanrtom World if they were gonna puss out on the fanservice. Also I think the queerbaiting/yuribaiting has been common in many KyoAni shows from what I've read, Lucky Star, Tamako Market, Chuunibyou, Free, Kyoukai No Kanata, Euphonium and so far Dragon Maid. I don't think it's necessarily that, but I do think they just put those elements to be jokes or as signs of close friendships, and I don't think queerbaiting is even a concept Japan would even be aware of. Also yeah I do think the jokes in Nichijou are too over animated and that's why I don't like it. Still, seems like a big reach, it's not like the Euphonium scenes are animated on 1s and all the frames are key frames. They wanted to go for big moments, but I don't think the animation is at fault, rather the ambiguity, framing, and dialogue.

[@BranchesOfYgg]

I don't think it's fair to say that Endless 8 or even Disappearance was unchallenging. Hell, if I'm going by how many people totally misunderstand it, I could make the case that K-On is fairly challenging. Trigger, MAPPA, and especially Science Saru are all pretty young. Trigger already made When Supernatural Battles Became Commonplace which is on the level of any of Kyoani's shit LN adaptations, and MAPPA has at least once turned to generic shounen sports adaptation, so we'll see where they go in the future.

[@ew275x]

+Digibro After Dark while sure K-On! has some depth under the deceptively shallow first impression, it is still an anime that aired on the Disney Channel in Japan because little girls liked it who I'm mostly sure didn't "get it." Not sure if there's any interviews, but I don't think K-On! was meant as more than an fluffy, happy anime. I guess my closest comparison would be to the Lion King, which was surely meant and developed as a fun family friendly Disney but does manage to have a lot more depth and applicability than at first glance. Not sure if I conveyed my point with any sense, but I do think Kyoani goes for the mass market appeal before putting anything challenging. I don't begrudge them, but they do seem like a studio that couldn't and/or wouldn't produce a GitS:SAC, Evangelion or a Texhnolyze and while it is subjective to consider that or not cynical I think limiting yourself to only products for the masses is kind of cynical. I do kind of have also that small beef with Ghibli though. I also think KyoAni never making original anime puts them a notch below MAPPA and TRIGGER in cynicism, who are taking much bigger risks with Zakyou no Terror and Yuri On Ice and Kiznaiver and Kill La Kill, but they are helping realize the vision of an artist.

[@dylanthecool]

KyoAni is a studio that also has their own animation school, animation courses to directing courses taught by their own veteran staff. Newbies often graduate from these schools and become employees for the studio and debut on their shows. KyoAni is a studio that has been incredibly progressive towards women in an industry that has for a long time been male-dominated, featuring more female animators than male and even having the first anime show ever to have a female in every major creative position (K-ON!) KyoAni is the only anime studio in the industry that has everything produced in-house and they consistently maintain a high quality standard for their work. Maid-Dragon's production is coming after having to do a super-demanding movie to a demanding TV series and still remains incredibly well-made despite all that. KyoAni is a studio that cares greatly about their animators, paying them on salary rather than by # of cuts and avoid overworking them. No other studio does this, or rather KyoAni is the only studio even CAPABLE of doing this! The people behind KyoAni, directors such as Naoko Yamada and Yasuhiro Takemoto to animators such as Yoshiji Kigami, Taichi Ishidate, and Tatsuya Satou, put an enormous amount of effort and care into their work, so it's a bit insulting to call them cynical just because you feel they only try to appeal to the masses and never produce anything that "challenge the audience". Something which kinda falls flat considering they just recently adapted an manga that deals with subjects such as bullying, disability, and redemption.

[@Netheraxe]

ew275x Dragon Maid specifically says that Tohru is sexually interested in Koboyashi. Any baiting in that show is just due to Kobayashi's unwillingness to reject Tohru outright.

[@volbla]

I just wanna comment on supposed queerbait that i think may or may not exist (in whatever kyoani shows i've seen) because fuqit. -Lucky Star. There's a lot of bonding moments between Konata and Kagami. When this was brought up in a forum i had my own theory that the reason Kagami is so attached to the class next door is because she doesn't seem to have many friends in her own class. But i haven't thought about it in the rest of the show that much. But in the ova (!) doesn't Kagami literally say, in a half-dreaming state "I want to fuck Konata." It's kinda hard not to see that as bait. -Chuu2koi. Dekomori and Nibutani has a very tsundere relationship, but i don't know if you can fairly interpret that as romance, unless you _really_ want to. Dekomori has reverence for the idea of Forest Summer, but that's because she's a chuu2 and not because of any feelings for Nibutani. She has the same amount of reverence for Rikka. I don't know if a tsundere dynamic where they mess with each other sometimes is enough to deduce romance baiting. In Oreimo the main character's dad is tsundere, but i don't see any shipping there. That may be a stupid example... -Free. Other than this having a lot of handsome guys, i don't think there's anything particularly baity about it. There's no flirting or blushing or heartfelt conversations outside of what good friends would have. If anything it's more incestbait in the second season, because the useless girl really likes her brother's muscles. But maybe just having two hot dudes next to each other is enough to bait a certain audience in Japan, because gay guys is apparently A Thing over there that i don't think it is in the west. -Kobayashi-san. In this show i don't see any subtext. I see text! Touru is straight up gay for Kobayashi (if dragons have genders and can be gay), and Kobayashi isn't. Is an honest, upfront one-sided romance considered bait? I wouldn't call it that, but maybe that depends on what you're expecting. It's not a real yuri show, i guess, but i wouldn't want to attribute every one-sided love to a sinister marketing tactic.

[@mattecrystal6403]

i love when anime flexes its nuts. better animation is never unwelcome

[@JoshRushingartist]

I think I fall more in the camp that's totally fine with randomly gorgeous animation, but I completely understand the criticisms here. I have yet to watch Euphonium myself, and now I really want to more than ever.

[@anainbed]

The real question is where has the elated arab gentleman gone?

[@Trixiethegoldenwitch]

He's around.

[@enraversadi2903]

He was cool. I just wish i knew why he stole John Lennon's glasses.

[@LoveSasukeKai]

Queerbaiting isn't really a thing in Japan, especially for girl/girl relationships, tho'? Like, yes, a show like Supernatural has gone overboard with it because the creators noticed how many girls and people seeking representation watched it. It became an easy way for them to keep their viewership up, even when they had no more interesting ideas. But in Japan? They don't think girl/girl relationships are serious? Of course this is changing, and there are people who know that it is a real thing, but the culture in general thinks it's just training for their future straight marriages. And anime is made for a Japanese audience. So for them, Euphonium IS romantic, however, it's a romance only meant to last while the girls are young. When they grow up they'll "grow out of" their girl-loving tendencies, and become adults who're only straight, marry men and have kids like good little housewives. So sure they can cash in on otaku who wants to see girls get it on, but also feel secure in how these girls will one day be straight for them. Hence, it's not queerbaiting, because the girls aren't supposed to even be permanently queer. In contrast to shows like Supernatural that are in a constant "ooooh, maybe, maybe not, I have to keep watching to know!"

[@joemuis23]

Maja N seems like a very plausible way for Japan to look at bi/gay people based on their lack of understanding of mental health

[@MindForgedManacle]

Maja N: I don't buy that. The purpose of queer-baiting isn't that the characters are supposed to be in a serious gay relationship. The purpose is to draw in more viewers who are tantalized just by the possibility that they might end up in a gay relationship. Even if Japan is behind on gay rights, that doesn't mean they don't make a lot of use of queer-baiting in media. Lots of guys who aren't otaku are still tantalized by the prospect of seeing lesbians having sex or kissing.

[@RaineV1]

>Queerbaiting isn't really a thing in Japan. Dude, KyoAni puts out official promo artwork like this: i.imgur.com/xSSuiXl.jpg and this: i.imgur.com/FMHaeWH.jpg . They definitely use bait to try to get more people interested.

[@alterego9863]

That's not a justification, that's just an elaboration of WHY Japan is so ready to queerbait. The idea that same-sex relations are "just a phase", or a matter of choice, is a core source of western homophobia too, and a lingering cause for creators to take refuge in subtext instead of having outright gay couples. That in Japan, this is so prevalent that there is practically no alternative to it, and it's "just the way it is", doesn't absolve them of ereasing real LGBTQ people from their media in favor of exploitable ideals.

[@LoveSasukeKai]

I hope this notifies now... Let me rephrase: Queerbaiting the way we see it in the West isn't entirely applicable on Japanese media, tho'? As in, yeah, yuri is queerbaiting in its own right, but I don't think we can apply this concept so simply upon another culture without taking their issues into consideration. I mean, I'm just as pissed as the next person that my sexual and romantic attraction to people of my own gender is seen as "just a phase." But the fact remains that in my culture, Sweden, few bat an eye at me dating another girl, not because they think it's a non-threatening phase, but because it's less stigmatized. Basically, I phrased myself badly when what I wanted to say was that I'm not sure we can label this stuff so quickly without taking culture into consideration.

[@FierceCast]

Still haven't watched this video but will soon. Still, gotta just say this: can't wait for you to talk about ur score on Girlish Number. I haven't watched that show and no one told me any particularly good things about it so it's in my mind a pretty average anime

[@Anticitizen546]

As someone who's not even a mark for Yuri material, I definitely thought Euphonium was depicting a growing romantic relationship between Kumiko and Reina. Honestly, if you didn't intend it, but you have this many people who got that impression from watching the show, the show has failed at what it was trying to do. All those intimate glances, the frankly seductive behavior, the statement by both that they are "confessing their love" to one another, it really makes things look romantic. You could have done Kumiko and Reina's scene without it being romantic, and still have it be a beautiful moment. There have been plenty of beautiful depictions of friendship (even in the rest of Kyoto Animation's catalogue) that leave you feeling warm and fuzzy inside, as opposed to Euphonium which is beautiful in the moment as a romance, but ends up confusing in the end. Hard to tell if it's overindulgence in animation or some kind of cynical statement, but I honestly believe that it could be both. Disappearance of Nagato Yuki-chan was Satelight, by the way, not J.C. Staff.

[@hydrosamedh]

i love this ! you should make more follow up videos !!!!

[@HxH2011DRA]

Samedh Gupta Agreed

[@manufacturingdiscontent8829]

"They gave no bounce to the boob"

[@Kissislove17]

I really enjoyed the Grimgar show. I hate how it ended at such a good part, do you think there will be a second season or have you already discussed it in a video?

[@sartigan943]

Hey, your background is really sharp. As always.

[@16JPE]

Which studio do you think could have conveyed that feeling of a beautiful friendship? if Hibike! Euphonium was animated by another studio, and do you think that the overall tone of the show would change because of it? (this is the most detailed question I've ever asked anyone)

[@chrischg1197]

Digibro, I would love to have a debate on Bakemonogatari some time, since it seemed you loved it

[@UmoLoco]

Why is it that digi is the only one who asks questions like this? I like these kinds of videos and it's why I'm subscribed to digi

[@platonicvulpine]

"Can a movie be shot too well?" Today, Digibro answers the difficult question.

[@jaqofthoughts.4263]

Completely agree, i have seen this in a lot of shows today where they try so much to be so pretty and realistic that they lose a certain stylistic quality that anime has that makes it stand out and differentiate it from western animation. Western animation usually animates a lot of but also has a much simpler style that ends up balancing out. Some shows just don't need that much animation, it ends up just distracting and shifting your focus from the important things. Ufotable shows have starting to have this problem recently, especially that God Eater anime.

[@zakisaki8681]

Why is all of your after dark videos have ad right after the video ends? I been binging every video in this channel but most of them have ads at the end.

[@JayceCH.]

Definitely seeing your point on "over-animation", namely Sakuga, in Hibuke. Its one of the big things that turned me off from liking it besides ship baiting till the last episode I've come to expect and personally the character designs.

[@MindForgedManacle]

Eh, I don't think I buy this argument. I think Digi is confused. Most people tend to say Euphonium makes tactical use of cynicism (with respect to queer-baiting), not that the whole point/purpose of Euphonium is to be a queer-bait-y anime. That's how a lot of cynical media works. KyoAni has LOTS of fan service-y shows, but that doesn't necessarily mean the shows were created *to be* fan service-y.

[@MT-fs9bl]

Non-related, but Digibro is into clipping. ? Like I didn't think I could respect him more, but here we are.

[@SaysThisCat]

Really liked the points Digi makes about contrast playing an important role in emphasis at significant points in a narative. Also giggled a bit when he started saying cicadas the way old white ladies say 'avacadas'

[@TheKrigeron]

I don't know man. I don't think the staff slipped and drew that lip flicking moment.

[@VanguardSupreme]

Damn. Digi makes a really good point about Hyouka and why I've yet to finish watching that show, despite the constant praise it receives and my love for KyoAni. Too much of a good thing.

[@TheLonelyLuneon]

I'm just glad that Japan does its own thing. As overseas citizen, I would be really sad and also very terrified if each and every single animated project in Japan was going to be made specifically for North-America (N-A the continent, not the northern part of USA). It would bring everything way too close to me. I like my current position where I can watch everything from a distance. Anime is my escape from the madness. What am I even going to do when anime goes that direction more and more...

[@yamato1420]

I think Digibro has an excellent point. In Bakemonogatari (which is often regarded to have the best style of the whole of Monogatari) the extra animations have purpose. The way that they're structured and the way that they frame the characters and make the mood is paramount. It may not seem that way, but go back and try to notice when these animations happen and when they don't. They actually don't happen for pretty long stretches of times, specifically when they're not needed. When they do appear, the framing and the tone that they set perfectly complements the characters they center around and adds meaning to the narrative. One has to remember that art generally is trying to give a take in a larger story, or tell a story on its own (not mutually exclusive) In Hyouka, the extra animation is partially or even mostly redundant. Remember that long scene with a movie shot by some students which seemed like something to really sit down, map and think about, but was solved by factors absolutely unknown to the audience anyway? That's how I feel about Hyouka. Ultimately, Hyouka likes to pretend that it's something deep and different, but it's toothless and much more generic than it might seem to some people. Close-up shots of character's faces with far more emotion than required. Those 'resting' scenes Digi talks about with animation. Monogatari does that too, and to 5x effect with framing and feeling, not over-animation. The top comment also has a pretty weak argument. Natural-ness and real life? Sure, you could argue that Hyouka is more about the average lives of it's characters rather than the mysteries and the sub-plots, but it doesn't really achieve much in that direction overall. Again, the over-animation, even with that lens, is quite redundant. Does that mean that every element and part of an anime like Monogatari or Kyoto Animation's lineup must be purposeful and necessary? No, but when every bit of a show is crowded with animation to the detriment of itself, it loses its main focus to an extent. Look at Violet Evergarden. A decent improvement in these regards. This is largely because it's a far more emotional show, but also because the pacing and the structure of all kinds of animations is much better. Each episode's narrative feel tighter in part because of that. Look at Lucky Star. A very simple show in its presentation. However, it still has rather much more similarities to the rest of KyoAni's than differences. Observe how pleasant and just how smoothly it goes, and how whole narrative is aided by that. No over-animations, just slow segments and comfortable angles.

[@GenesisAria]

+Digibro After Dark Endless Eight exists for the sole purpose of forcefully throwing you into Yuki Nagato's shoes and drive dome with a jackhammer that empathy. I for one was never upset by it, because i figured out fairly quickly what they were trying to do. When i rewatch that series, i watch most of Endless Eight along with it. That entire anime was more about Yuki than Haruhi or Kyon. Haruhi was the fulcrum, Kyon was the engine, but Yuki was the fuel that drove it all.

[@Michirin9801]

This is pretty much the same argument as the use of lightsabers in the prequels vs the Original Trilogy, in the original trilogy lightsabers were only used in special scenes so the use of a lightsaber in it was much more meaningful, however in the prequels lightsabers were used a lot more often so we kinda got desensitised to them, however some people do like the extra spectacle in the prequels even if it's not as meaningful, me included, I think the Darth Maul fight was the best fight in the series, some people think it was over-choreographed, and it was pretty meaningless because it's a villain who gets 2 lines in the movie and then dies, but the sheer spectacle with an amazing choreography and John Williams' possible masterpiece backing it up makes it all worth it to me... I could say the same thing about an 'over-animated' anime, yeah I'd probably become desensitised to the amazing animation by the 3rd episode, but I sure would enjoy the spectacle!

[@WalkingGirlKoi]

Yeah, KyoAni doesn't seem like the type to do queerbaiting in this thrown out, pushy manner. They're just trying to impress the audience with as many nice scenes as possible. Anyway, overly performing is a rare complaint to hear... usually it's the other way around.

[@tanakariza5336]

Hey digibro, you say that the romantic interpretations of Hibike Euphonium are probably due to overanimation and I do agree with you to an extent. However, what's now bugging my mind is the dialogue and the actions that happen. One of my favorite lines from Hibike euphonium is Reina saying to Kumiko "it's a confession of love". Granted, I watched that show before I started learning Japanese, so it could be a mistranslation on crunchyroll's part, but to me, even though she has actually said that she's in love with taki-sensei, I can't imagine how else that line can be interpreted other than Reina telling Kumiko that she thinks of her as more than just a friend. That has nothing to do with the animation, so what was up with that? Also, you said that the interviews you read concerning this issue were from the staff of the anime adaptation. What about the author of the books? Did SHE mean for them to be a lesbian pairing?

[@fidomaster447]

I understand your point, but I would rather have shows like Hieuph! be "overly-animated" because even though like you said some of those important scenes don't stand out because of that, when I watch shows I am still able to identify those defining and important moments and can appreciate them, despite the animation (at least to me), so it's no real issue. I also do not like how some studios get real lazy during the "boring" or "slow" parts of their shows and the quality goes to shit, so I can appreciate KyoAni going that extra mile for theirs. Also in regards to those heavily detailed cutaways KyoAni does, I totally agree with that how that can be too much to process for its own good, granted there are some instances where the cutaways have a direct correlation on the overlying plot or problem the characters are currently going through, which I can appreciate, but overall I think those in particular are unnecessary.

[@Peasham]

I find the term queerbaiting pretty damn entitled. Just because your favorite gay ship didn't turn out to be canon, doesn't mean you get to trash the show. I mean, you can, it just won't be that good a point. Not to mention, for some reason, queerbaiting's taken seriously, but when people throw a fit over straight ships not being canon, they're laughed at. Way I see it, going apeshit over your OTP being shattered, no matter the sexuality, is damn well cause for humiliation.

[@FabricioKMS]

Peasham Here's something crazy, just hear me out: Maybe there are people who don't give a flying toss about "shipping", crazy heh? And maybe they just don't like when a show is inconsistent, who could've imagined? I know is a little bit difficult to believe that people don't think as the bipedal salt mines you take them for, but it's true! Like, seriously, calm down. Do you need a glass of water or something?

[@Peasham]

Fabricio Martins Steven Universe and Sherlock fans (to name a few) literally sent death treats for their ships not being canon, claiming it's inconsistent. Taking people who take queerbaiting seriously as salt mines, is pretty damn reasonable. Especially with Japan, whose culture literally contains girls, regardless of sexuality, dating other girls, to get experience in dating. Being salty that Japan doesn't pander to western sensibilities with homosexuality, further proves my point.

[@FabricioKMS]

Peasham there's a group of people laying down their arguments and discussing in a (mostly) civilized manner, with some even arguing for the non existence of the aforementioned baiting. Then there's another group locked in their poorly lit bedrooms raving over fanart on Tumblr the whole day and agressively circlejerking around their headcanons. I think putting people who just want to have a conversation about a show in the same bag as people who desperately need psychiatric intervention is a little insane.

[@Peasham]

Fabricio Martins Digibro literally said, in his previous video mind you, that he, and a lot of other people would be pissed off a "queerbaiting". Hell, he was pretty steamed at even the idea of it not being a relationship, let alone at it actually not being one. Not sure what you want from me.

[@ira__s]

+Peasham I think it's different when it's just the shipper fans simply pairing people up without actual grounds for it and then complaining about it not being canon, and when it's pretty obvious that the makers of the series are doing all they can to make it seem like some characters have feelings for each other/ are in a relationship but never confirm it or just say they are only good friends. There is some limits before friendship is not just friendship but it is a safe ground for studios to get the yuri/ yaoi fans to watch the show, without losing the others who do not like to watch that kind of stuff.

[@bleeters5984]

Bit off topic, but whilst I'm actually kind of glad they never made a K-On College, I am a little disappointed they never made a post-season two High School OVA or something. I didn't really care for the manga of it and the new characters feel like superficial replacements, but Azusa and Ui adapting to life without their friends/upperclassmen/big sister felt like it had a lot of potential. More than the OVAs we actually got did, anyway.

[@craigandahalf]

In xxxholic, CLAMP set up Watanuki and Dolmeki as soul mates, even though they never intended them to end up being romantic partners. Maybe they tried to do that, but it didn't work, because of what you said.

[@Grimbonez]

sorry.....this whole video sounds like you saying they should lessen the quality of animation lol maybe its just the way you said it, because i totally agree about hibike and maybe they just over played the scenes and misrepresented it (though to me, the dialog is the main offender) and while it doesn't really bother me, i can see your point about the cicada fighting vs the power-lines thing. but i cant really get behind a show being "to well animated". i think its more how you use it. like you said for kyoani, everything looks so good already, they need to make put on a super flashy show to tell you "this moment is more special then the others. but i dont think thats bad in and of its self if the writing and directing are tight enough to ensure the correct meaning is presented. in hibike they should have avoid long scenes with the girls looking into each others eyes, holding hand etc, and the writers should have made sure to right dialog in a way where it was CLEAR they were just friends, and not thinking romantically (honestly, kumiko felt like she was gay the whole time but didnt realize thats what she was feeling. to me st least ) idk, maybe it just dont bother me so i cant see it the way you do. i thought grimgar looked amazing and dispite everything, i liked hibike's animation. i just cant see anything gained by lowering quailty. not sure if thats what you trying to say or if im misunderstanding your point of view

[@Szadek23]

A bit OT, but Endless 8 is perfect at getting you into the right mindset for the Disappearance of Haruhi Suzumiya, which is why everyone should watch it at least once. You think seeing these events 8 times is frustrating? Imagine living through it for another 100000 times.

[@eruno_]

Szadek23 I kinda agree, but I think 4 or even 2 episodes would been enough to get the whole point across. They could used time & money they spent on all 8 episodes doing something more worthwhile.

[@ARandomGuy24]

Basically if you've have most of the show looking good you've got to always have a next level you can go to in the important moments. E.g Like in Redline.

[@digiexpert35]

If I had to do something like you're describing Hyouka, I'd make the big poignant moments be minimally animated, drawing our attention to the words and what little animation there is. Assuming I had to keep everything else being way animated, that is.

[@thatsniceman5081]

WHEN ARE YOU DROPPING PLEEB AND THE WEEB ALREADY DIGIIII I'M DYING

[@Trixiethegoldenwitch]

It's gonna be like a month probably, those things take time and I don't edit them.

[@thekawaiian9840]

Yasujiro Ozu for me is like the grand-master of all arts and I didn't expect Digi addresses him. AWESOME.

[@daskmorn]

So, basically, Kyoto Animation is the Dream Theater(post Metropolis part 2) of anime studios?

[@BranchesOfYgg]

I think that's a bit of an extreme comparison, but those are kinda the lines I'm talking on I suppose.

[@ew275x]

To be honest I'd put them like Disney Animated Studios. Masters of their craft, but the material is intended for Mass audiences and their consumption and isn't super complicated.

[@AlaskaFinal]

The "I'm curious scene" Hyouka I would say was rather important though. It was meant to show how the girl was an invading force in this loner kid's life, how she was able to get him to do things he clearly didn't want to. It also triggered the **** out of me. DAMMIT WOMEN, GIVE ME MY PERSONAL SPACE, OR I WILL USE THIS PENCIL TO *CARVE* IT OUT OF YOUR PLUSH MOE EXTERIOR!!!

[@Abderian]

Reading around online while the first season was airing, I was "spoiled" that the relationship would not be a yuri one. As much as I think this could have been an interestingly strong and different story had it gone that route, it didn't strongly detract from the experience of watching both seasons for me. I was still interested in the characters, and I found the end rather touching, even if it wasn't well set up or as strong as it could have been had the story gone a different direction. My understanding, which may or may not be true, is that the author of the source material did not like it to be presented in a yuri kind of way. Oh, well, that's what head canon and doujin are for, I guess. While Kabaneri's not on the same level, I'd say the two are similar in that with a better written story, they could have been stellar. Without it, they're just pretty darn good and beautiful to look at.

[@OverAbsol410]

Which reminds me of Makoto Shinkai movies.

[@Shindy117]

I get what your saying but what about realistic movement??? What if you want characters moving their hands like real people and speaking and moving realistically? would that be bad? is that what hyouka is doing?

[@raytsh]

I think you can still have highs and lows without having most of the scenes being static heads with barely moving mouths and so on. If the overall animation fidelity is higher than the average and they can still surpass this baseline by further increasing the fidelity in scenes necessary, then it's fine I my opinion. I especially love when dialog sequences have continuous and subtle animation compared to static shots with barley animated parts.

[@Trixiethegoldenwitch]

I hope it didn't seem like i was advocating for no animation at all or anything, just not the distracting level of it in Hyouka. I think Lucky Star for instance does a great job of near-constant subtle movement in its long dialog scenes.

[@raytsh]

I agree that a distinction between meaningful and less meaningful scenes based on the visual fidelity makes sense and it certainly applies to most studios. But, with KyoAni and the more or less constant sakuga richness and overall stunning visuals I think it can be misleading to judge the emotional relevance of scenes too much on the quality of the visuals. Regarding your prior video, I also have to agree on the yuri romance that was clearly hinted on. So that's that. Maybe you could do a video on wether or not the creator's original intent or what the viewer got or interpreted into the material is more valuable and should be taking into account when judging a show. Event with me now knowing the real intend of the creators now, I don't value the show less just because I "have not got it right".

[@VashdaCrash]

If it's as you say, it's amazingly funny. I'm watching it all with a new light, even that haruhi clusterfuck. I thought they were showing the middle finger to the audience for all the pressure to make them do a second season of that, so I guess I was watching epileptic trees anyway.

[@nadjiamatcha8206]

I think this is a really important idea with giving the Animation a break. It makes sense, quiet the same with a painting. You could make everything in detail, but that would destroy the composition and the point you should focus on will get lost.

[@WickedKnightAlbel]

LBR... That Go! Go! Maniac opening in K-On where the camera rapidly pans around the band as they're accurately playing the song was basically done to show off. They even once cut to a snail eating a leaf in one episode. They've been over animating for years, really.

[@bobdoe3403]

like that one time you said good food is not necessarily expensive food

[@ninryu4]

Bullshit. KyoAni knew EXACTLY what they were doing, and what they were doing is yuri-baiting. They know shit like K-on and Tamako Market sales, so they umped up the gay.

[@MonkeyShinesu]

That's strange, since there is no homosexuality at all in K-on! and the only lesbian in Tamako is shut down.

[@ninryu4]

It had heavily implied attraction between girls.

[@ASHERUISE]

@ Dan She also has a teacher crush on Sawa-chan-sensei.

[@thmstbst]

What people are describing as queerbating exactly the emotions you described in your last video. Getting angry and having it ruin the show for you, because they made it seem like a gay relationship was happening, then pulled the rug from underneath you. Queerbating the word may imply intent, but is more a description of systematic oppression of romantic narratives that defy the norm. Honestly, I could imagine a scenario where the creators have no idea a scene with two girls can seem romantic. That doesn't mean queerbating isn't happening. When we live in a world that ignores gay people exist, or tell us it's some kind of perversion, it's no wonder why creators don't see their characters as gay. They have no frame of reference to do so.

[@MexicanGan-Q]

This is a long one as I kind of Ramble a bit. (Spoilers for both seasons are present) I never really interpreted the Relationship Between Kumiko and Reina as a Yuri type relationship, but more of a way of admitting their mutual admiration for each other. While the moments where the show focused solely on those two do look beautiful, the show does make a point to emphasize other romantic elements involving these characters outside of their relationship (Such as Reina's crush on Taki-sensei, Or The sort of subdued romantic plotline, that admittedly doesn't go anywhere with Kumiko And Shuiichi). I think the biggest problem is with the use of the word "Love" which people immediately associate with romance. If you watch both seasons of the show, you'll know that Reina isn't the only person Kumiko admits her love to (She also does it to her older sister and to Asuka), which I feel may have been a deliberate move to try and eliminate the romantic ideas some people got about Kumiko and Reina's relationship in season 1 without resorting to having Kumiko and shuiichi pair up as they did in the original Material. Overall Hibike! Euphonium is about Kumiko's character and how she grows to emotionally invest herself in her music and the people she cares about. She grows to be intimate and expressive with her feelings rather than keeping them to herself which is what leads to these declarations of Love. While I can understand how These moments could be interpreted this way, I don't think the animation and styling is to blame, They are just improved in these moments to show the intensity of the emotion Kumiko is feeling, which in turns makes her character more expressive.

[@ethan37066]

I'm inclined to disagree here. I really like kyoto ani's use of excessive animation, and anime cutting away to bugs and power lines because I think its important to the aesthetic. Kyo ani shows are really good at having that homey realistic feel to them and the subtle movements help add to that. I loved the aesthetic of hyouka, and I don't see how having loads of animation hurts the show in any way. If the characters did all of those unecessary movements in a live action film you probably wouldn't be very distracted, it would look normal. I don't see how the show benefits from purposefully having static shots. Whats wrong with flexing? isn't a big part of what separates anime for cinema and anime for tv the amount of animation? Couldn't plenty of miazaki or kon movies be subjected to this same criticism. In order to be taken seriously at the cinematic level those movies need excess animation. Kyoani shows are known for having that crazy production value for tv anime and I think thats a big part of their appeal and I don't think the shows would be better without it. As far as cutting away to power lines and stuff, I don't think thats always for breathing room. When lain, steins;gate, or eva cut to power lines its usually got some other purpose than breathing room whether it be narrative or aesthetic. Monogatari cuts away to random backgrounds and stuff all the time and its usually to spice up a long dialogue scene or serves some sort of purpose regarding whats happening. Anyway I don't think your point is that anime just does this to give you time to breath, but that some anime often do it with no narrative purpose and its distracting which I guess is sometimes the case but I'm not often distracted by it and I like it for aesthetic purposes. Also I don't think this show was accidentally directed in a misleading way I think it was yuri baiting. The first season is obviously supposed to make you think its yuri because they know people are into that. It definitely made me more into the series and made me want to watch the second season (though I have not finished it). From what i understand from your other video season 2 adapts the 2nd and 3rd novel but kumiko doesn't get with the guy at the end, that kind of sounds like they purposefully left that part out (thats purely off of what I understand was adapted from something i remember you saying so i could be wrong there) The show was definitely directed to seem like a romance. I don't think you were mislead by distracting animation or anything I really just think the show was purposefully directed in a way that didn't try to convey what was intended in the novels.

[@xKuroiKazex]

Hibike never even looked like yuri show, that's just your wet dreams, lol.

[@galgow]

i agree with this "too pretty" argument in scenes like the backlit reina on the street (this video's thumbnail) but in the moment where kumiko confesses i cant see any reason to show their faces so close to each other, write the dialog in such a romantic manner, if not to insinuate a romance. There are multiple scenes in which reina touches kumikos face and lips that dont make the show prettier in any way, moments that could've looked just as good if she was touching her shoulder or some other place that could imply a more sister-like love. i dont think they were queerbaiting either, considering they did that in free with way more fanservice, but these romantic undertones in euphonium cannot be attributed Just to trying to make the anime seem more grand and pretty.

[@CSDragon]

The yuri market is small? It feels like every anime these days does some yuri thing or another for fanservice's sake.

[@BandGGaming]

I know this is an old comment, but let me put it this way for people coming here later - the market for anime is big. The market for anime where the whole appeal is Yuri (Citrus, Bloom into You) is small, however the market for anime with Yuri is way larger. People were upset that Euphonium wasn't a Yuri anime, because that's what they were expecting, while everyone else would be fine with it being an anime with yuri

[@angelb33ts]

Even in Hyouka, they kicked up the animation (which is saying something) when Hotaro realizes his full romantic feelings for Chitanda (in the last episode) , or everytime he looks at her, which directly mirrors the scenes between Kimiko/Reina, mostly Kumikos vision of Reina, just like Hotaro vision of Chitanda. And if the scene meant friendship then it shows an inability to animate a difference in these scenes, because unfortunately for Hyouka Hotaro and Chitandas dialogue is not infused with romance it is all hinging on Hotaro perspective of Chitandas until the last episode when he imagines basically asking her to marry him, the scene becomes filled with lighting and beautiful animation before reverting back to normalcy when he gives his actual reply. Those scenes are incredibly similar with Hibeki creating a huge disconnect.

[@TheBberentzen]

I think there is a difference between styles of shows though, something like redline would never be accused of being overanimated because it is a movie that is supposed to keep you on the edge of your seat for 2 hours. In more laid back moe type shows the constant animation make it hard for the viewer to actually lay back and casually enjoy the show, without the viewers senses being overloaded constantly.

[@jillianKov]

I don't know if it's just me... but during this entire vlog I couldn't help but notice that the camera was focused on the background. As in, he was slightly out of focus.... >.> good content though!

[@sin4718]

Once you get used to what and why KyoAni does, it won't be distracting or tiring. I much rather watch "over animated" stuff what puts some feature films to shame than like with All Out last season being distracted by how shit did that look like. Though in that case being distracted was the best thing could happen.

[@fun_kay]

interesting point about the over designed nature of the show essentially having general art style problems. the general composition of the show has always been this grossly glossy and intensely lit colour palate that doesn't really fit something as simple as a feel-good show. I feel as though the show maybe should have gone with the watercolour look if they wanted it to look more beautiful, rather than the intensely detailed and chrome-y shine they went with since that makes the mind linger on every detail and ascribe more meaning to the scene than it should imply

[@HxH2011DRA]

People in the comments acting like queerbait doesn't exist I'm dead XD

[@se-n-fly-er]

I don't even know what to think about this show anymore to be honest. I liked it so much during season 1 and now I'm not as into it.

[@colonelkernel9966]

I have a better question. Can Digibro Be Too Pretty For His Own Good?

[@whataboutthings]

I still am not onboard with any of the lesbianism in hibi. I still believe its the only show with a very real take on strong and intimate same gender friendships. Just like the one i have with my best friend. Its great for that reason. And thats a friendship that deserves such beautiful moments. I remember me and my pal seeing a shooting star, it was midnight and we were having a heartfelt conversation and it was magical. Thats what hibi felt like. I do however think other shows suffer from some overanimation. Mostly Dogakobo shows. Hyouka i felt was fine though. Cause the whole point of the show was a commentary on beutiful things vs the mundane. Making the point that the mundane IS the beautiful. The "overanimation" of everything is in direct service to that plotline. But yea. I feel you are touching a rel thing, but with the wrong shows. Grimgar was a moodpiece... I had issues with it but not with the art and animation. Shows i think fit the bill with overanimation are things like Sansha Sanyou or Maiddragon or New game or Stella no Mahou. Or kuma miko...

[@AnimeOverdose1]

I didn't feel like New Game was overanimated, rather it had just right amount of animation to make each of the characters' quirky personalities communicate well through movements. The directing was also just nice and simple, it had some unusual 'fan-servicy' angles but it didn't have them much to make it distracting or uncalled for while in Girlish Number every freaking scene is always shown from weird far away angle or having camera really close to characters' faces but rarely shown just normally from 'medium' angle as to see their faces and their body and clothes' designs all in one shot. The show is also low on animation and the effect of such awkward directing is only magnified.

[@whataboutthings]

Overdose lol, sure some of your point about new game made sense but what was that about G#? Like it has nothing to do with my point, digis point or your own point about new game.

[@AnimeOverdose1]

I kinda came up with Girlish # randomly as it's fresh in my mind but it's relevant here too, at least directing-wise. Digi talks about it at 5:30 actually. Good sakuga always goes on par with good directing creating unusual standing out shots so as to put emphasis on the particular scene. In Hyouka and Hibike Euphonium there's so much of it, that when there is a mundane situation (characters sitting around talking) over-animation and weird directing that goes with it puts unnecessary emphasis and when there seemingly should be emphasis on a particular important scene it gets confusing 'cause it gets treated the same way as mundane situation and you can't tell for sure what each scene implies and what it should convey.

[@anonagon4550]

You say that the moment when Reina pushes her hair back and is backlit by the moon and its so incredibly beautiful is the moment in any other show where the main character has fallen in love. But its still that moment here. In season 1 and early in season 2, Kumiko is very obviously in love with Reina. The reason the date scene is so beautiful and the reason Reina is always depicted so gorgeously is because Kumiko is our eyes in the show, and Kumiko is gay as fuck. Every amazingly animated, overdetailed shot is of Reina. The only one of the two characters to ever state their sexual or romantic attraction to the other is Kumiko, and she does it a lot. And the way that Season 2 handles the shift in Kumiko's desires from Reina to Asuka is well done, though very subtle. I do think the show did a poor job of making it clear that Reina herself didn't feel the same for Kumiko, especially given how touchy-feely she is with her. Her love for Taki-sensei is the main thing reminding us that she doesn't return Kumiko's feelings, and while its brought up a lot, I don't necessarily think it was enough. In retrospect, I can accept that Reina's touchy-feely-ness is just part of her character, perhaps just how she thinks best friends are supposed to be, but while watching season 1 I thought just as much as most people that Reina and Kumiko were a thing.

[@mousy2294]

I really feel that S1 of Euphonium could have been a perfect standalone. If it was, they wouldn't have had to backtrack in season 2 to address their initial creative liberties with the script. And I believe that the final pairing in the anime was more of a compromise between the tone of season 1 and the original pairing in the light novel. Now if the ending stuck to the novel, it'd definitely be queer-baiting.

[@mousy2294]

Kyoani probably pulled out all the stops in season 1 without knowledge of whether there'd be a second season.

[@simunator]

god digi, your argument here is the personification of "this is why we can't have nice things.

[@nvdisheujdhd8561]

Trigger is the only studio that has never disappointed me

[@LhymeLife]

Have you watched "When Supernatural Battles Became Commonplace"?

[@cometcourse381]

Have you watched Kiznaiver?

[@Grudgebearer47]

Have u watched ninja slayer?

[@nvdisheujdhd8561]

I've watched kiznaiver but not the other two?are they good?

[@LhymeLife]

"When Supernatural Battles Became Commonplace" is the most run of the mill, generic, LN adaptation. The best thing I can say for it is that it isn't offensively bad. But that doesn't stop it from being hugely disappointing. Trigger puts absolutely zero charm into, it's the show you see on a season list and say. "I understand that it's not for me and I accept that". I only watched it a year after it came out because I found out it was by Trigger and thought, "Well surely there is something more under the surface, this won't be terrible, it can't be terrible, it's a Trigger show. Trigger saves anime, not destroys it." So the point is, no one is without mistakes or flaws and we have to learn to accept that.

[@FF18Cloud]

I dunno, man, my marching band in highschool had that kinda drama, except well, there were those times the brass section be in dat alcohol before a competition, and that you got the sex+'s at the club's... but... yeah, my highschool marching band was like the one in Euphonium O-o to a degree... heh heh heh