Can Artisanal Avantgarde Brands Survive?

[@mgibson3248]

Great video. Im a chef and have worked in 3 star and product development for retailers. There is no easy compromise. I think more videos of you working on products with not just be interesting for the viewer but let people see the process and care that goes into the product. Fix the price that it is worth and show the process people can’t argue with that. I work at one restaurant and the process took 3 days to make a jus. The customers had a 3 month waiting list and were happy to pay to come to the name of the restaurant because they new the thought that went into it. Keep showing the process

[@gestalter2543]

It all comes down to storytelling. The story you told of your friend seeing the real value of the product only by witnessing the process is exactly what nearly all artisanal brands are missing out on in my opinion. Instead of revealing processes, the intent behind their creations and detailed decision-making, the sourcing of materials etc., most brands rather seem to focus on the opposite: secrecy and seclusion.

[@PicturedMind]

It's an interesting conversation for sure. A couple of months ago I was finally able to purchase BBS jeans for a price that I was happy with (way under half of retail) after being interested in the brand for years. Now the jeans are wonderful with a lot of cool details and they're very unique, but the main point of advertisement is that they're handmade in spain. While I appreciate this a lot I will simply never be ok with purchasing a pair of jeans for a four digit price, which is the retail price for these. To go back to Rick; I can get at least three cool pairs of Rick jeans on sale for that price. I'm not saying one is necessarily better than the other, I'm simply weighing multiple options and seeing which option provides me with more overall happiness. Moral of the story is that while I appreciate the craftsmanship and I enjoy owning pieces that were handmade by humans, I've found that I'm only willing to pay a small upcharge for this.

[@marcussandberg5315]

Scaling up artisanal avant-garde brands presents a complex challenge, as maintaining unique craftsmanship and distinctiveness becomes increasingly difficult on a larger scale without risking authenticity and alienating the loyal customer base. I believe that pricing has been somewhat ruined because as some people don't know where they get their meat, they neither know how much time craftsmanship takes in the moment and for experience. I work with silver and pricing is really hard, I think that's why you either establish a good customer base or scale up for a real successful business unfortunately. Great points and intriguing topics asa always David.

[@AshAhms]

I love these more discourse based content, you should fit more of these every once in a while. Don't think there are anyone else that are occupying this niche on KZbin (artisanal weird craft), you're able to articulate your experience really well having had first hand experience and you can lead this movement. It's a bit more intimate, less removed from reality, helps a wider audience understand the labour of love and makes me feel justified for my spending lmao.

[@PasqualeNuzzo_01]

Instead of quality I think it is also an issue of visibility and culture... there is a need to educate more people to search for quality and uniqueness, many young people approach the world of fashion through streetwear or the big multinational brands, all these young people who approach fashion are on an "entry-level" state and should be educated and begin to understand the value and the uniqueness, research and love that is behind an handcrafted piece. An artisanal brand by the way should have its own specific unique positioning within the niche in order to survive, its own originality and the marketing should be focused on educate the potential customers.

[@duncanlester]

Great video! I certainly care about craftmanship and quality, but unfortunately as I consume most fashion related products online, I am swayed more by the look of a product rather than the process and work that went into it. This is a difficult challenge because some artisanal brands are certainly on another level quality wise, but are unable to communicate that solely through product shots. As other comments have listed, I would love to see the multi day process behind making a bag/wallet. I'm sure this would be a challenge on its own, but the Skinnosh behind the scenes are always dope. Appreciate your work man.

[@OneOneThree-wl7ml]

Making something like a t-shirt, COMPLETELY from scratch COMPLETELY by hand, could easily cost millions of dollars to prodice

[@3esk382]

David, thankyou for this video. Here is my feedback; I purchased a skinnosh wallet from you earlier this year and am so pleased with the quality of your product. The leather feels and looks so beautiful. I was also surprised how inexpensive the price was for the amount of work. Your wallet is better quality than Hermes and also cheaper than Hermes! I’ve had three different Hermes wallets over the years so I feel qualified to compare. (Not saying Hermes is small artisanal company lol, but they do claim their products are “hand made”). Best wishes with your business. Hopefully I will purchase a bag or belt from you in the future. Cheers!

[@DavidMoseer]

Thank you very much! That means a lot!! 🩶

[@BeistWardh_777]

As made by hand brands that get my attention these times, I could say Kei Kagami, Sruli Recht, Sandrine Philippe, Paradoxe and yours

[@Alpha-co3dp]

Great video, in my opinion I think I do care about the story for certain pieces of clothing. As an artisanal brand (no knowledge about it speculation), I believe the main selling point without the story is long lasting quality and great customer service. The problem with that is that it isn’t a consistent income enough to run an establishment directly on sales, so maybe you might have to go towards the outreach approach then the marketing approach. So if it’s belt, maybe giving some to your local school so people who forget their uniform belt are using your belt if that makes sense

[@beataignioranza]

Steve Jobs would say: don't ask people what they want. This goes in the direction of trying to please everyone, which definitely works well for Coca-Cola, with tons of sugar in it. Another way of looking at this would be: there are people around the world who really value and love what I do, exactly the way I do it. THOSE are my customers. Those are the ones I will make sure they find me and that they completely get obsessed with my products/brand. (those are the ones that wouldn't probably be scared by slightly higher prices too) Then I would point ALL my branding/marketing/communication/packaging/whatever in that direction. With laser focus. As one other comment said, every piece of communication/contact with the customer should communicate the core value of artisanal production (and probably a couple other values your brand stands for). Storytelling, yes. Some row/basic ideas are already present in the content you post here. A couple that immediately came to mind: that talk on CCP where you said that when you start the day with a CCP item on, you know the day will be interesting… The fact that you remember how difficult the stitching on that angle was… You get the idea. 😉 (I'm happy you finally succeded in selling that GL blazer, I'm the guy from Italy who got in touch by email 😅)

[@TVelde]

For me, what makes a “brand” interesting is the uniqueness and quality of their products. What is normally considered a standard thing to have, like for example: a leather jacket, belt, wallet, boots, denim jeans or even a t-shirt, can be elevated to something truly special. If a brand can make an “ordinary” item special by adding extra details and higher quality hides/fabrics/constructions, then the price can be justified. With a truly hand-made item, this is automatically the case as every item will be unique and (often) of higher quality. Of course, it then also comes down to the storytelling, marketing and/or desirability.

[@AvantNoir]

Really interesting topic and something I actually have wondered about. I really love artisan products and clothes especially. Craftsmanship is something I really value. This is why I’d rather throw down 500€ on jacket from Isaac Sellam than 2000€ for Rick Owens. To me it’s a no brainer. Maybe I’m a bit biased as a video producer but I think the story behind the brand and good video content can really help reach consumers who would be interested in such brands. Also, we are at a time where people especially millennials are willing to spend good money on good clothes. The market wasn’t like this 7-10 years ago

[@FashionAmigos]

There’s a traditional art in Mexico called Huichol made by shamans which take a lot of time to do and some years ago, in a small village I was visiting was this lady making Huichol art in a huge bull skull and I ask her how long it takes to finish the product and how much is it, she said 1 month per product and she sells it around 600 to 1000 usd and I ended up buying one. So yes, knowing and witnessing ( which I know is not easy ) that your stuff is made by hand with extreme care justify any price like your 400 usd wallet.

[@maryborz7920]

Thank you for the video, David, I totally agree with you! The small brand Intreg is very underrated, despite the fact that the founder of the brand works with rare premium leather. Hope he'll find his target audience soon

[@zicongchen]

I would argue that in most of the circumstances, products are not related with their creators ( artisanal workers, tailors, cobblers etc) who preserved and dedicated to their skills of craftsmanship for decades. For me, it doesn't matter if products are crafted and finished soley by hand works with no machines involved, those people behind the products is the factor that determines if anything I purchase is artisanal or not.

[@Alpha-co3dp]

I think it is a good balance between dope and human touch, for a good handful but for majority it’s about if its dope and at what price, and which will make me look more dope to others at a good bargain

[@jdz101]

I would pay €150-200 for that wallet...I get why you would want to charge for your time though. I love your products but they are pretty steep... As you mentioned, a big challenge of making quality clothes/accessories.

[@fajnegadanie8465]

Great video, I think that avant-garde brands can survive, but only those brands that will have an experimental approach such as ccp thanks to this approach ccp is timeless and I think elena dawson in some way can by timeless what do you think?

[@vincentjohnson5843]

Excellent video. Your analysis is relevant for any artisan or artist "creative" attempting to establish a market presence or niche. There are no easy answers, but IMHO, the successful brands are great at communicating a "story" about quality or aesthetics that convince consumers to pay a premium price. An essential element of that story is often how the artisan product will provide a unique lifetime (or multi-generational) experience for the buyer/consumer.

[@darkovinster2754]

Made by hand matter to some people. It all depends on everyone values. Some want only a beautiful design without imperfection and other want a product made by hand that tell a story. We have to be honest… too many people are buying luxury good to get some kind of status… not for the art side or the craftsmanship! Pretty sad but true. On my side i only buy products that speak to me (made by hand or not). I no more buy things made in China. I also try to get product made with a conscious intention (well pay worker, worker with good conditions, ecological products if possible…). In the end it also depends on everyone money, and only few people can afford luxury products. In my opinion your products are worth the price tag, but it remain a luxury good.

[@bailey_ss02]

True artisanal brands that I think of are Elena Dawson, CCP, Paul Harnden, Geoffrey B Small, Yuta Matsuoka, and maybe a few others

[@OneOneThree-wl7ml]

I care about it as a consumer

[@sacnereob]

I care as a hairdresser, because I also make things by hand and understand the craftmanship. You made me a custom tool roll (Cas from NL here). I think consumers who notice these things, are a small/niche group, maybe? You have to have an eye for it. I had an customer who makes art, she spotted the tool roll and immediately commented on the nice leather quality and craftmanship! Some consumers care and want to pay extra for it and some are more for the Brand/Status or just the price of things, I think. But I understand dat upscaling is hard to do. I take an hour for an haircut, because the quality of the cut is more precise and better. I can do it in 10 minutes for less money, but then the cut will be more poorly done. It’s your own choice how you want to work and what the cost is gonna be. In the end, it should make you happy. But yes, there is a limit in what you can do and earn, in that way. 🖤

[@erikreeds3836]

I care a lot about handmade items and a lot of what you admire in handmade/artisanal pieces is what I admire as well, even though I do not personally make items like that. however, I also have a lot of non-artisanal clothes that I love and feel a deep connection to (don't we all though?), so in that way they're kind of a luxury for me. I also don't really have the capital to pay full price for many artisanal brands (ironically skinnosh is probably the only one I know of that really falls in the high end of my budget), so I think that sort of lessens the personal connection one could have to an artisanal piece. whenever I see the high prices, I always know it is justified by labor and material costs (as your friend says, $420 for a wallet is "crazy" but when it takes several days to make....), but it can still be difficult for me not to feel like I should get a cheaper alternative, or buy something similarly cool secondhand. good video though, this sort of discussion is valuable.

[@M15Guys]

Do the entire thing yourself as you are doing. You cannot put your name to it otherwise and you will never be 100% satisfied with the piece you sell. However, be prepared to lose out financially. I have not sold a single item (although I have not really tried !) xx

[@danieldelfino5094]

One question is coming up : how many items do you buy on retail to appreciate and help brands to survive?

[@luke1693]

May be a hot take, but I don’t think that artisanal brands have a future. Doesn’t want to be disrespectful but many of them sit on top of their high horse I feel like, because they’re doing it by them self and seeing it to much as a hobby, rather than a business( to obsessed with the Products), nothing wrong with it but their need to be such a dedication that money isn’t relevant, at least that’s the spirit I’m getting from it. Obviously it’s art but it needs to be presented well, interacting with the community and leveling yourself, don’t get me wrong, presenting an artistic Look Book might be absolutely what you dreamed of but it comes to show that that alone isn’t going to sell stuff for you. With other words, more transparency and joy would attract more customers, direct CTA and more business related actions a crucial. Trying to Scale a artisanal brand is also a tough one, you rather got the money to instantly start the business with people by your side, otherwise it’s going to be a long long process, where growth is nearly not to be found. The only „Artisanal“ business which could work in the future are high luxurious bags and shoes, I’m taking about bespoke items and only the finest of leathers and general materials and fabrics, with a good positioned store located in places like Zürich, Geneva, Monaco, and a good network of people who first of are willing to pay high prices and are desperate for bespike luxury items. And I’ve your know asking yourself how can this man give sich statements, I’ve been in the same situation, and needed to ask my self if this path would fulfill me, my answer was no. Only the way stated above would be a sustainable way, business and product wise.

[@OneOneThree-wl7ml]

Yes, I would greatly prefer everything je made by hand, consensually, passionately and happily and I would be willing to buy less amd pay more for it. If a Rick owens pair of pants is 1600, I would happily pay 5x that knowing that it was made, consensually , happily, and passionately by an inspired human being. I would be honored.

[@acreatedhuman8655]

Step 1. Be a poor creative making a name for themselves through quality product and mystery. Step 2. Develop a Cult following. Step 3. Sell at an insane markup and the followers will eat it up no matter the price. In truth only purists will care about the process and story behind your product. Not everyone is even inclined to become a geek about it. An artisan w no cult following is not lucrative.

[@hhaendlerr]

in my opinion, there are too few brands that offer "kinda" artisanal/avantgarde (I mean the aesthetic, not the craftsmanship) for a decent price point (from the view of most fashion consumers), thats why there are big entry barriers. For example the missing cloud.. few people can afford such pieces (even if they are worth it long term), so you rarely see people with such aesthetics. dont really know how to explain myself, but theres no easy entry to the rabbithole yk?