Can I Use Reference Photos If I Do Them In My Art Style? - Tips For Artists

[@therandomimage]

Interesting subject! I've had a few artists paint my pieces (I'm a photographic artist) and they approach me first to get my permission. I'm always flattered and love seeing it in their style. They also credit me which is very much appreciated.

[@voodoodollrepairkit]

I find that taking your own reference is always best. It saves time scouring the internet for the exact right pose or trying to make something you found work that's only 60% of what you want. However, this isn't always an easy source. (Especially now during quarantine) Finding models, setting aside the time/location to shoot & sometimes paying scale to those participating can be an ordeal. Instead, I often collage several images together to get the reference I need. Pose from one source, facial construction from another, back ground from another, at times using several individual sources when sketching crowds of people or body poses between 2 or more people that need to complement each other like fighting or dancing. If you have access to video media, I recommend pausing video for action reference. (your Superhero punching a Villain in the face, is probably the same as Tyson Fury punching his opponent in the face) As far as making the image your own during the process, for the most part all you need is the gesture of the subject before you start to build your own version or before you lay the groundwork for the real image in your head.

[@KoongYe]

People are so afraid of plagiarism that it's actually hurting their creativity and chances of learning. It really makes me sad.

[@pennykent5687]

Oh, I SOOOOO AGREE WITH YOU!!! YES!😢

[@MedaHalmaciu]

Plus, when you are that good that you can paint from a photo and they can tell what photo you painted from, you probably don't need to paint from photos found online anymore.

[@mariec5716]

You know what? I honestly do not think any person would copy exactly what they see. Honestly it is virtually impossible to do. People have their unique creation styles. Which are a natural gift from nature. So all this plagiarism business well to do in art work totally ridiculous if you stop and honestly think and look at true artists work. I read somewhere nothing is actually 100% original. It had to come and be from before or somewhere. What we do as top professionals is improve or put our uniqueness on a problem. Sorry that is a fact. What we are and have is our unique way of making choices. Thanky guys bye for now...

[@10kCrows]

You guys are so adorable together, I want an art soulmate so we can be like you guys🥺🥺🥺

[@pm_davidjones]

In most states there are "Rights of Publicity" laws. What that means is every person has the right to their publicity. Even if you took a photo of Bob the maintenance guy on his break from fixing a broken sink, you cannot use that photo for commercial purposes without a model release. hence, you cannot paint and sell a picture based on a photo of Bob that someone else took without a release from the photographer as well as possibly from Bob depending on how the original release was worded. The key word in all of this is "Commercial", which can get iffy on what that means.

[@shannacosper7366]

I use royalty free sites like Pixaby or Paint my photo

[@tinacolbourneart1091]

There is also Pexels and Morgefile. Also wildlifereferencephotos.com you have to pay a small fee. The best practice is just to use parts of several different reference photos or only using a part of a reference photo and use your imagination for the rest.

[@PhoebesWorldProductions]

That was a good question. And thank you for that helpful response.

[@gnarthdarkanen7464]

I've actually bothered (with the ebb and flow of such panic as "copyright law" inspires) to go see an attorney... The technical letter of law SAYS that the law engages the moment you have a "consumable medium" of your project. At the same time and from the same attorney, there's two sides to the law. 1. The letter as legislated and often updated "as written". 2. The court's ability to enforce it "as interpreted". Courts depend on EVIDENCE. They will accept (often begrudgingly) any document in blue or black ink... SO to get your own work protected you SHOULD go through the legal stuff and get documented as copyrighted. The court is ill equipped to "take your word for it"... AND no judge in the U.S. (at least) is willingly going to enforce your copyright without that documentation. AND with the caveat that it's only one attorney's word for it, mailing it to yourself is NOT good enough to take to court. The moment a bailiff opens it, the seal's been broken, so your next visit to court (and you'll have to present the evidence "as is" many times) makes the mail a moot point... There's no telling how many times (and thus copies) would have to be mailed for you to keep a "legitimate" evidentiary case all the way through the court system. At the very least, there's going to be enough "appeals" that whoever happens to have deep enough pockets can literally "stall you into poverty". This goes the other way as well... What makes the internet "murky" is that uploading is technically defined as "publishing"... SO you CAN use photo's for reference... Most pro's do... They also "stylize" it with their interpretation, just like Raffi says... Often any decent published artist DOES take their own references, just to avoid the "hassle"... AND you should DEFINITELY document your "model" as giving permission. Publishing someone's image for money without permission is criminal. Again celeb's have a tougher time with this issue, paparazzi are a thing... BUT there's a reason you'll be asked to sign a "basic contract" even if you just happen to be in the shot for a TV show or News operation... It's also why so many "background people" get their faces blurred or the famous "blue dot" of yesteryears... You can get clever and have an attorney go through a "contract write up" or find someone else who's fluent in "legalese"... BUT a basic "plain language" agreement is functional. This way, in the case your own photo-to-art process isn't as difficult to identify as you'd hoped, your figurative ass is covered with the "permission document". It's not a bad idea to pay a model for their time and help, in part just in the trade for letting you publish something directly (or less than directly) from their image in order to pursue a career or hobby to pay for itself. Hell, I've modeled for people and signed away for a trip to an ice cream parlor... AND I signed a contract (most recently) for voice acting... understanding I can keep a copy of the work myself (for a back up in case... online... electronics... etc.) but I can't legally copy off a bunch and send them to friends... It wasn't difficult to read, so little or no "legalese", and we are making money... so "professional" work. Hope this helps... AND it's weirder with "public figures" versus "famous people" in general. Bill Murray wasn't "outside" his rights to press for Raffi to take his image down. At the same time, with paparazzi doing whatever they can to fill magazines and tabloids with images of "famous people"... It's similarly difficult to say whether a legal case could be supported for Murray to win a suit in the case Raffi refused. I'm confident, even as "reclusive" as he is, there are A LOT of private folks with pictures they've taken of Bill Murray. That's how it gets dubious... AND magazines and tabloids get sued rather frequently (compared to me anyway) even when they DO get permissions and all in writing... Basically (TL/DR) the more documentation you can get that you (personally) had permission from your model, AND took the pic' yourself... the better you can stand in court... That's what the "case law" seems to indicate if you're interested in "playing safe". Might even recommend it when you DO know the person well or have a relationship... Even friendships can break up over money... greed... jealousy... AND in fits of rage, a lawsuit is often the "go-to" response. SO taking steps to put this or that "under contract" is a good way to settle the court-case BEFORE you're directly out of your mind, or emotions take hold to lead to trouble. A "lucky break" for an artist can lead to a brilliant career and a fair pile of cash, and the jealous friend/S.O. can be tempted to "sabotage" or turn plain old mean about it. You don't want to be in court with a "he said/she said" case if you don't really have to. ;o)

[@hannahquinteroart]

Copyright infringement is so scary. Thank you so much for the helpful advice!

[@amandadanes8975]

Omg I love that print...it matches my living room decor!!

[@marcelgoulard7064]

For full safety, you should get a model's release for photos of recognizable figures.

[@PunchiePaints]

I do a lot of wildlife paintings and usually use my own reference photos. There have been a few times when I was commissioned to paint something that I did not have any references of, and needed to use a photo taken by someone else. In those instances, I will contact the photographer and ask their permission before I will use it for reference.

[@PunchiePaints]

Also - when I post the art I will mention that I referenced such-and-suches photo for the artwork

[@SarahDavisSings]

PunchiePaints Yes! I actually had a photographer tell me that I could use their stuff for my paintings as long it involved no work on their end. Sure, cite the reference but don’t give them any extra work (paperwork). I have that specifically in writing in an email but that was the max effort they wanted. 😂

[@Saffirance]

We got our Artroverts Unite T-shirts. Love them thanks Rafi!!

[@wenwake7584]

Why haven't I seen you both before! New subscriber, and looking forward to listening to your back list vids and future ones. Plus, Klee, the seatbelt... that made me snort, yes, snort! Hehe. This gal does that sort of thing too. x

[@lifeonwheels9802]

Can you do a physical example by showing a photo and explain how you would tweek it?

[@rockhoundingwithjasperblue]

Hi Rafi & Klee! I’m still most definitely enjoying your videos. I heard , a long time ago, that you can use just about any reference you want for a ‘one-time’ painting, say a commission or the like, that someone will hang on their wall. But can’t be reproducing that original. It makes sense but I don’t know for sure. Thanks again for all the advice. I’ve actually got quite a bit accomplished during this BS lockdown shee-ite. Take care and keep em coming. 💎

[@karritz1542]

Thanks for the interesting video and I liked the scenery during your driving and the indoor scenes. I have done something or other with art all of my life. I started taking my own reference photos when in my late teens and now I'm in the age bracket that is in most danger from catching the COVID virus. So I've been doing it for a really long time. My photography started out as me getting my own reference photos, and now I mostly sell my photos as I stopped doing much painting or drawing a few years ago due to illness. In my country camera clubs are common and they are a great place to learn about using your camera . I was never able to do a photography course because every course I could find in my area was full time three years and I needed to work to earn an income. Over the years I've finally managed to get a professional level camera but use my phone or tablet to get a lot of the photos I would use to paint or draw from. The camera is way too heavy to carry with me all of the time and you never know when you are going to find something interesting. A few years ago I went for a 3 month long drive and found thousands of wildflowers and photographed them with the idea of using them as reference material for my future paintings and having an exhibition of the paintings. I am accustomed to using multiple photos to make a new unique work. I don't copy my photos and paint a single photo. I take elements from photos and create an entirely new work from them. Unfortunately I got sick when I finally returned home and wasn't well enough to do the paintings, but I could sit at my computer and started digitally cutting the flowers out of my photos and using them on a POD site. I mostly sell them as stickers. I don't earn much from this but it is keeping me happy and I'm now doing more and more drawings. I love working with coloured pencils. I draw people, birds, animals and whatever takes my fancy at the time. Currently I'm working on a pencil drawing of my cat. He didn't know he was posing but I drew him one day as he sat in my lap and I'm using that drawing to make many new works as I have fun seeing what I can make of it. I am careful to not use photos of people as reference as I don't want someone coming after me telling me I've used their likeness. I don't care if they are famous or not. I've done years of life drawing classes so have a pretty good idea of how to draw people and use a computer game to assist with more complex points of view if necessary. That doesn't happen often and I prefer to draw cats, dogs, horses and birds. Now, after that long preamble, the thing that worries me the most about putting things on line is the names and descriptions used when posting the original works. I've had work taken down and been accused of stealing other people's work because of a word I've used in the name of the piece. The take down had nothing to do with the image. Now I tend to search the internet to see if anyone has a company, business name or TV series etc that uses the words or phrases I have used to describe or name my images. This is a common problem when posting work on line. It is amazing the words and phrases people get registered as belonging to them. Just thought I'd mention being careful to ensure you have an original image isn't the only issue with copyright when putting work on line.

[@KarmasPeaces]

You guys are aawesome! Thank you!

[@KarmasPeaces]

@@Rafiwashere Inspired! Keep giving us content! You're the truth!

[@celestehappeny1580]

A good idea might be to be sure and credit the photographer(s) on any painting you use those photographs as a reference. A lot of people don’t mind if you use their work as a jumping off point, but they do want credit for what they have done. I have some family members who take great photographs and are in places in the world I can’t go to. If I see a photograph I want to use, I ask first. If they say yes, then I make sure they get credit for the reference. I don’t really sell much art so it isn’t as big a deal for me, but I do try to give credit when it’s due.

[@J3nnycat]

Do these same principles apply for abstract paintings? I notice many artists on here do tutorials or take you through their process of creating an abstract piece and encourage you to try. I’m new to abstract/intuitive painting and always try to make it my own, but I still see similarities to artists I’m inspired by. ❤️

[@ErinWinslow]

Outside Land is creepy. It's best to stay home. ;-)

[@ArtyAntics]

I think we need to respect our follow creatives who are awesome photographers and not copy their work. If we replaced photo with reference painting and someone copied us then we would be upset but if someone was inspired by an element of our piece and did it their way then that’s a great complement! As Picasso said, good artists copy, great artists steal!

[@jackiegarroutte8970]

Klee is beautiful

[@TartantazCreates]

Aww shucks guys. Thanks very much. It was a lot of fun chatting with you both. To help Melissa further, I find the whole copyright situation such a minefield I try to use my own photos as much as possible. As a portrait artist I’ve found I use photos from unsplash a copyright free website where I can find free portrait photos to use for painting demonstrations for my KZbin channel. The only thing I would warn against is the unscrupulous people who upload photos which are not their own. But so far I’ve not found an issue with that on unsplash. Did you know You can search an image on google as a way to make sure it is not obviously someone else’s photo. But truth be known, as I mentioned earlier I actually like to use my own photos and use affinity photo to create some awesome composite fine art photos which then can become paintings if I want them to. It’s just another avenue for me to express my artistic voice. It’s also a great way to explore composition and colour etc without even using a paintbrush and worrying about “getting it wrong”😉. Once I get it looking how I want it in digital form I can then paint it. I do not always plan my paintings like this, it just gives me another option and a break away from painting when I need it to avoid feeling burnt out. Hope this has been helpful T

[@johndezouch1006]

Aww man. I really want to be a portrait artist, so my finished work kinda has to look like the reference :-P Guess I'm gonna be begging my friends for their selfies at some point.

[@gardenia2578]

Great video! So informative! I've been doing portraits for years now! I did not know about copyright issues. Wow, i guess ill paint people i know only. I dont sell them i just post in ig.

[@thehappypotter9612]

How about a vid showing how you tweak references in your own work?

[@Kvasiraz]

As a wildlife painter where my references are often copyrighted photos, since I can't fly to Borneo for example on a whim for my own photographs (yet?), I tend to use at least three different photos of the same creature. This helps me work out posing, shading and deviations of color to a degree where what I create winds up being totally original. They serve as guidelines, mind you. Not something I 'trace' or directly mash together like some Frankenstein monster. So unless you're doing an obvious intellectual property like Star Wars or something, which you shouldn't try to sell as your own, I recommend artists take that route.

[@Rafiwashere]

Thank you!

[@PhiTonics]

Yeah archaic laws are rediculious. Under these guidelines one could never draw something accurately without seeing it in person, rediculious. I do see the problem, but laws are mostly used by those who have, against those who don't.

[@richardthaxton1479]

Hey Rafi! When you work with models professionally you have to get the model release signed by them for still photos and video. There's situations where the model fought for the copyright to the images of them in court.

[@yukiko347]

On references from other places where it is mixed hobby and buisness. (I got this advice from a painter Camille Engle) she told me she ask for permission from photographers or people if she uses a small piece from a photo. And i have done pieces based from a photograph with the photographers permission to make. But i can not sell them, so i use those as gifts or stick them into a folder for examples. Also, on copyright, their are characters who are domain free where a period of time has passed and they are no longer owned by a company or person.

[@mjpete27]

Good basic recommendations, One thing celebrities have to contend with is they no longer have control of every image of them that is in the "Public Domain" you could use a picture of Bill Murray from a news source or even magazine. Best judgement is the watchword you wish to use in justifying your use of imagery. Changing a photo so that it is Not easily recognizable from the original is another way to use reference imagery. Flip it 180 degrees, Posterize it! Change it significantly so it can no longer be seen as the original image. Good Luck and Be safe out there! OH you can go here for free photos to paint : pmp-art.com/

[@lvmylord54]

Pixabay works too

[@Preservestlandry]

I would be careful because there was a similar situation with the Barak Obama campaign image, the blue and red image everyone has seen. The original photo was taken by someone else, and the guy who made the changes got sued to hell and back by the photographer.

[@BrianReplies]

You people are going to be the cutest old couple ever in about 15 years.

[@lvmylord54]

I love taking my own reference photos. Sometimes I wonder if I'm an artist or a photographer!

[@linseybachko4470]

Photographers are artists so I guess that makes you like an awesome double artist!

[@lvmylord54]

@@linseybachko4470 Maybe. lol I've taken photos as long as I can remember for everything.

[@TheodoraWimsey]

Even if you take the photo of someone, best get a model release. This is true even in life drawing sessions.

[@LindaUrsin]

I've found pixabay to be a great resource for "free to use commercially" photos

[@raggamuffin2013]

I do this too

[@Gtown1777]

I had an idea to reverse the photos with software and also use artistic license to move background elements to create a solid composition. I'm thinking of wildlife paintings for which taking my own source photos isn't always possible. Opinions please, is that a safe plan?

[@SantieAmery]

There are also Facebook groups with free reference photo's for artists....

[@observerfx212]

Safety first, Clee! :D

[@colleenbeers8572]

I use pexels as it’s a free reference site, I emailed them to ask if I was able to sell what I painted & they said that it was perfectly allowed. There’s also upsplash & a few other ones

[@linseybachko4470]

When in doubt, contact an attorney, or barring that, go straight to the source (if you can find it) who took the photo in the first place. While many professional photographers may not want artists using their work and letting it be recognizable in paintings (and making a profit off it), there may be some who are intrigued by the idea. Besides, it never hurts to ask and the worst they can say is no.

[@Annalorraine2x]

One of my professors at college said it’s better to ask forgiveness than permission.

[@chubbyjaydraws]

Forgiveness is expensive when it comes to copyright infringement though. A tortilla company used a college professor of mines art and he sued. Punishment was per image used (which was per package pretty much) company went under 😳🤔expensive forgiveness indeed

[@Annalorraine2x]

This professor t also Threaten Jay Leno for showing his pictures he photoshop of his young son with tattoos, all he wanted was the tv show to say who he on the show, they payed him off $$

[@NickLMears]

I use a lot of reference because it helps. That said, I'm taking a lot of my own pictures now and leaning towards parody sometimes just in case.

[@anniecando]

love the Gilligans Island reference .. lol

[@fuzzydragons]

Copyright can be so confusing and is so different country to country. Even some of the "free"image sites actually have images on them that the photographer did not allow for use, so it can be tricky using them because you really don't know if you can legally sell work created by those images. Def always better to take your own ref images just to be on the safe side with selling. Of course if it's just practice art, copyright isn't a big issue.

[@craigjohnson7439]

I'm a landscape artist and recently I started playing with AI like Midjourney to create reference photos. Just food for thought.

[@ShawNshawN]

You have to get a model release form to use their image unless I think you are the press. They get a pass like AP.

[@evamooney2953]

The point of creativity isn't making something out of nothing but instead merging and Molding other items to become a new unique item.

[@joedeshon]

10:11 Did everybody catch Klee's homage to Fiddler on the Roof? I wonder if she got copyright clearance for that? :)

[@attheranch873]

I’ve researched this, and If you want to use reference photos it’s best to use them from a site like Pixabay.com. It’s FREE and anything that you make of your own from those photos is yours and you can sell it. You can even render it in your own medium exactly if you want to, you just can’t sell someone’s actual photo. There’s also Pexels and many others. If you’re going to use something that’s not in the public domain then the artist needs to not be able to recognize it. If the artist recognizes it then it’s a copyright violation, so I just stay away from anything like that. Problem solved.

[@Starrynightdiner]

Ok so the drawing I did of you was based on, I think three photos of you and another unrelated hand image. Sorry I didn’t ask permission first, but I did give you the drawing. So that counts for something, right?

[@DavidVallejoIllustrator]

A good way to use photo references is to start with the design first, then look for references to solidify the idea. I made a video about this a while ago. You can see it here kzbin.info/www/bejne/aGPKoJRjjtiEgM0 (OK, I know, unsolicited and shameless plug. Just let me know if you don't want it and I'll take it down). Also, for caricature artists there is a lot of leeway for copyright infringement because parody is usually protected by law. However, if you're going to directly quote a celebrity, you might want to creatively reword the quote to fit the parody and to avoid legal issues. What a litigious society we live in!

[@ShawNshawN]

Ya I had AP come after me for a Shepard Fairey story about him getting in trouble for copyright LOL. They only wanted $1000 for a photo I made no money on SMH

[@chemicalbarista3189]

So i jumped ship in Hong kong, told em I'm a looper ya know professional caddy

[@neckjig1]

Can I draw the Nike swoop from reference and put them on shoes?

[@chubbyjaydraws]

The Nike Swoop is trademarked.

[@nicnaknoc]

As long as you make it a you swoop

[@Fairygoblet]

I think that part of the reason that plagiarism is so feared among the artistic Community is because of what they've learned in school. At least in the real world, you can dispute whether or not you plagiarized something. If you plagiarize school, or if the teacher thinks you plagiarized, you could have a range of consequences from a failing grade in the class to permanent expulsion from school. I'm not saying that plagiarism is okay by any menu. I'm saying that interpretations of what constitute plagiarism can vary drastically. Instead of just telling kids not to plagiarize , at some point you should explain copyright law to them.

[@polyesterbebe]

Engagement

[@mxferro]

Watch out once you get to be a "big time artist" as the judges gavel went crazy on Andy Warhol stuff ( a number of photographers pounced on him for snagging their work without approval) and even changing the medium your working in from the original one can land you in hot water. Jeff Koons court loss on the "string of puppies" sculpture created from a postcard pic. He lost the case to copyright infringement and rejecting his fair use defense.

[@Rafiwashere]

Thank you so much for sharing this!

[@Preservestlandry]

The Barack Obama "Hope" poster was another one. The guy who made the poster just got a photo from the Internet and changed the colors. He lost the lawsuit.

[@jaisolart]

wohhhhhooooooooooooooo!!! x

[@mariec5716]

Hi guys you can use free photo stock. Do a search free photo stock? On what subject a you can say in a blog took idea or picture from free photo stock. You do not need to reference or any acknowledgement. You are safe under the USA LAWS... Thanky guys have an excellent day...

[@jayfelix_]

Plot twist: Bill Murray was the one who commissioned the Bill Murray painting and then Bill Murray sues you for selling prints of your Bill Murray painting.

[@evelyne7071]

I heard that "tweaking" should be at least 80 % different than reference in order to truly be "your own " Does that sound about right ?....aka...." tweak the hell out of it "

[@BlackCat_2]

Interesting. There is also the possibility to get permission from the creator. I have seen on Seether Instagram - instagram.com/seether/ - many posts they uploaded of others recreating their album artwork. To me that implies permission to do recreations but I would also err on the side of caution by asking though might be a good while before you get a reply back. - Heidi

[@btomakart5975]

[@evelyne7071]

Plus paying punitive damages from any profits you "may have made"....on the road to becoming a famous/broke artist

[@Karlena_Lewin_Studio]

You can get free references photos on a cool FB page call free references photos for artist it changed my life your welcome lolol

[@Karlena_Lewin_Studio]

Rafi Was Here Studios knowing you you have found it already amazing aye 🥰

[@leosuniverse]

BM is known for being a big bleeep. You can use unsplash photos or the likes. No mask?

[@leosuniverse]

@@Rafiwashere Be careful I had to go get tested my cat died. No test on her. Only xray no hope.I have to go to drs next week. I might have something different but if not ......Our area los angeles is still shut down. Though the dr office is opening finally go in vs phone.

[@Sylvia_C]

So, in order to own the copyright of your image, it must be at least 65% different from whatever reference image you used. If you are photographing people, ask them to sign a "release" before you do so. Always get the parent's signed permission before you photograph their children. Never post recognizable images of children online or sell them (for example, as prints), because... paedophiles and bullies. Don't download photos that have a watermark on them, such as a logo or the artists signature. Don't post images of commercial cartoon characters without permission. Most of these copyright laws are international, but you should find out if your country or State has more specific laws. Even professional artists use reference material and learn from other artists. It's fine so long as you aren't trying to pass off an obvious copy as your own idea.

[@mxferro]

I'd like to see how anyone goes about showing how they "changed" a piece of art "65%" from it's reference material. A court will not recognize the argument of a ratio or percentage in copyright infringement case. The artwork has to be transformative enough to not impede or divert income and harm reputation of the original source material. The court will ask the jury (which are NOT art experts) to determine if the infringement has occured using specific guidelines none of which involve any ratio or percentage of "transformation".

[@Nachtwindskind]

I think this website is nice for portrait artist to exercise: www.thispersondoesnotexist.com/ It generates a new not existing face everytime you reload. Just make sure to save the face. No idea about the legal stuff however.

[@MedaHalmaciu]

Never heard of this Bill is so I guess he is not that famous. 😁

[@EricaJoyArts]

Hello guys!😁✌

[@EricaJoyArts]

I always worry about breaking rules so I take a lot of my own photos. Digital cameras are awesome. Remember when pictures had to develop 🤣