Can Ice Climbers Win a Major?

[@puunk_9240]

9:10 Scrolls up, sees Trif, laughs and decides to scroll back down and keep talking about Soonsay

[@SSBMNicki]

Was considering just ending the video right there and not scrolling up to Trif at all LMAO

[@TheMistUser]

There are many instances of Ice Climbers almost winning majors. -Wobbles at EVO 2013 -Fly Amanita at Press Start -Chudat on one of the Dreamhack tournaments, got second after losing to Hungrybox in a time out, he also took him to game five I think is hard, but not impossible

[@vidvid5008]

Dreamhack Austin 2017

[@sareaper69]

And if you watch the set, Hungryboxx plays loose till he goes down 0-2 and than literally turns into the Ice Climbers Terminator and camps EXPEDITIOUSLY

[@Avinkwep]

Chu Dat won Pound 2

[@jrodd13]

Icies are arguably the least developed mid tier. It's not a matter of if they'll win, it's just when.

[@Avinkwep]

@@jrodd13 I would say icees are not mid tier. In every era of the game there have been top level threat ice climbers players, and usually multiple. Their results are much stronger historically than any character in the mid tier

[@AndrewRKenny]

I really like your attitude towards this, feels extremely healthy and realistic. You talk about bracket luck and day-to-day performance variance similarly to how the high level Smogon tournament community talks about winning tournaments: you need to be good enough to be able to ride some good luck all the way to the finish line, and if that's how the chips fall, it happens. Edwin Budding said this in his September 30, 2024 Monday Morning Marth: "Not to take credit away from Zain, but a Wavelength win would feel anticlimactic. With two other majors and an invitational to close out the year for big events, winning Wavelength would effectively lock up No. 1. Zain would have a two-major lead over Cody, whose future currently seems limited, and an insurmountable three-major lead over Mang0, who is barely in the discussion right now. At the same time, can someone really be number one when they’re literally winless against a peer? Does the best player in the world happen to be the luckiest one? The truth: sometimes that’s how it is. Armada won No. 1 in a year where Mang0 farmed him with Marth (okay, it was really only one tournament where this was the case; I’m being slightly hyperbolic). In the year before that, his toughest continental rival was banned from entering the United States before the last few majors of the year. Conversely, Hungrybox’s reign coincided with Armada’s retirement and two of his toughest opponents experimenting with Ultimate. It happens - there are always asterisks and downsides to people’s dominance. Zain can be an exceptional competitor, a worthy number one, and a lucky player at the same time." I felt like this was pretty well-articulated. Not saying you WANT a "lucky bracket" or for your opponents to have an off day or something, more so that it's not about being able to consistently beat everybody, but consistently beat enough people that when given the chance you can convert that opportunity into a win. Hope to see you at more tournaments next year!

[@greffen]

good comment

[@lorenzo689]

9:14 that nervous laugh when you went over trif lmao

[@TheKaseke]

I read or heard from some video that 8 out of all major wins this year had to go through Hbox, so avoiding him might just be extremely hard. But I wish you the best of luck on the road to winning a major!

[@SSBMNicki]

I had a path to win without beating hbox at don't park, it's possible!! But he is definitely one of the players I am preparing against the most right now, it won't be easy but I know it's possible

[@TheKaseke]

@@SSBMNicki Puff and Fox are probably the most likely and hardest top level match ups for your icies. That and peach, but high level peaches are pretty unlikely to end up in your path. A pocket fox for puff and peach might just be what you need, but honestly you might just be able to do it with solo icies!

[@noonvania]

6:37 ooh ee ooh ah ah ting tang walla walla bing bang

[@MrKingFunk]

Siivagunner BANGER

[@SSB_Seal]

I did not expect to hear a rip in this video LOL it made me wonder if Nicki did it knowingly or if he got SiivaGunner'd by the search results

[@alsayda7911]

Congratulations on the Nouns Sponsorship! Your "hard work" is paying off ;)

[@canadianbakn]

Good luck with the nouns travel sponsorship! You got my vote and was very impressed with your play don't park.

[@shaseim4st3r]

A well articulated, great video. It felt like it was going into a sponsor me type vibe but after hearing your rational, logical analysis and the fire burning in your soul to compete and learn, not to mention the entertainment factor of a new character in the mix, I’m rooting for you Nikki Good luck!❤🎉

[@eddiestilll]

You are such an inspiration Nicki. :) I'm just one of your many new fans and I'm sure you already know this, but do not give up. Even if you don't hit the same peak of getting 3rd at a major/supermajor, just keep at it and we believe you'll eventually win one with Icies. 2025 will be your year though!! :D

[@Catatafish]

Ich glaub an dich, eines Tages wirst du es schaffen!

[@evantm2588]

Omg bro, whenever people call ice climbers IC’s I always thought they were saying Icies , like a cute lil way to name em rather than just the abbreviated version. This makes me sad :(

[@SSB_Seal]

Fear not, many people do say Icies. I would say that ICs is more common, but it's not the only way!

[@AbefromanGW]

I've seen it both ways. Some people do spell it icies like spacies.

[@evantm2588]

@@SSB_Seal thank you , I was scared for a second

[@evantm2588]

@@AbefromanGW that’s where I got my assumption from!

[@TheMacaroniPanda]

Yeah both ICs and Icies are common ways to shorten the name, just don’t type “iceys” and you’ll be fine :p

[@vidvid5008]

If pikachu can win a major so can ics

[@Clarkbardoone]

Pika not hitting that peak ever again

[@vidvid5008]

@ but it did happen nonetheless

[@Clarkbardoone]

@@vidvid5008 Icies has already won a major then too lmfao, the question is can icies win in todays meta. Pika may have won before but axe has only been doing worse and worse at events while DONKEY KONG and icies have both been in top 4’s of majors.

[@SharurFoF]

My view is that if you can get 3rd at a supermajor, you can win one. I don't necessarily feel that way about just making top 8, but 3rd is another matter. Love your ICs and seeing you at events recently, hope to see you at many more, and to see you take one!

[@D.A.-Espada]

It wouldnt surprise me that another version of wobbling might win a major

[@samuelswinamer4939]

Nice vid! Curious what you think about the Samus MU, if you ran into Morsecode or a Plup as I know he favours Samus in that matchup. In theory I've always thought that MU looked hard for ICs.

[@SSBMNicki]

It's similar to the Falco matchup when it comes to how much specific counterplay you need to know and be able to employ on the fly, except that you tend to have way less experience / consistent practice in the matchup as ICs. It's theoretically even or winning, practically hard - so with good preparation I think it's fine.

[@ziwuri]

6:24 DAMN THE FLEX 🔥🔥

[@LRXC1]

I BELIEVE!

[@nounsesports]

We believe ⌐◨-◨

[@dirtsquids9854]

Love the energy lately nouns

[@ellis1393]

get this many some money!!!

[@ssbmwaddles]

I think any character above ganon on tier list can win a major

[@ZetTroxX]

btw hope u got something planned for that final voting phase, dont get spiritbombed!

[@_Majunior]

That's what I'm afraid of

[@Charitish89]

I'm a hard believer for IC's to win a major ❤

[@byrne1807]

Honestly the more time goes on the less important I think having good floaty matchups is in terms of just trying to win 1 major. I think for getting like top 10 it’s way more relevant, but they aren’t common enough for you to be consistently worried about running into top level floaties outside of literally just hbox. I’m still not a super believer in characters worse than ics to get it done, but I think if you have a winnable (not even necessarily good) mu against 4 of fox falco marth falcon sheik it feels pretty possible to me rn

[@John-nk3ej]

that controller would be sick but the shell doesnt say nintendo gamecube on it so i will not be entering

[@rachelivy9712]

change the shell lmao its a phob

[@rapidretrovenue563]

uhhhhhhhhhhh, i mean with a good streak of execution and perhaps a bit of bracket luck it can happen. Peach is the main brick wall for ICs and a knowledgeable Falcon as well. As an ICs you're basically going to hope that spacie sheik and marth players filter out the peaches and falcons and it becomes entirely possible. Being bad against spacies marth and sheik is much worse and fortunately ICs don't have that issue. There is puff, but ehh, I see puffs drop sets to weird MUs even if its in their favor due to puff being so volatile in nature because it dies so easily. I'd say the optimal pick for an ICs main is a laser heavy defensive Fox secondary for floaties on BF/DL. Defensive laser heavy fox completely addresses the shortcomings of ICs and will punish any floaty for trying to abuse tri plats. Fox also spanks Falcon, so thats also very useful. Falcons are not bothering learning the ICs MU because they're busy optimizing their top tier struggle MUs, but I've seen Falcons out there nerding the unorthodox MUs out and its kinda messed up what Falcon can do to ICs I'll just leave it at that.

[@thundicharlez9376]

Banger sets at DPG! Do you think IC work well on Boxx? Ive been using box and your videos to get into IC and im wondering if there's any limits/hinderances with IC on boxx

[@SSBMNicki]

I think they work great! SH ac upair is a lot easier. There is some tilt throw stuff that I've been told can be hard, but I've practiced ICs on box until a decently high level and haven't felt those yet - it might be worth asking kyu_puff or cookbook about this, they know everything hahaha

[@SaltInYourEye_ICs]

I’ve been playing ICs on box for abt 6 months now and it’s pretty fun! There aren’t any limits on box honestly. People might say that the wavedash angles are too little and too small where the ICs don’t wavedash far enough. Yet the ICs still slide rly far and the consistency on box is rly nice for ICs tech, if you want to, go for it!

[@dewfoda]

great thumbnail

[@blorblin]

I believe!!!

[@beehexistired]

no they won't and if they do they should be banned 😡🤬😡🤬 more seriously nice video i have two tangentially related questions who do you think is the character where it stops being realistically doable? I've been playing a lot of Doc lately and Idk if that's just optimism for your main but every top tier feels kinda hard but doable as it stands with lot of room to improve but can a character who just struggles like 60-40 or 65-35 against 90% of the player base have a shot at the highest level? ICs have some matchups like Sheik or Marth that are maybe even to compensate for harder ones like peach/puff but that's not the case for like Doc or Luigi (less familiar with but I feel like that's the case too) i told you in dms that i was praying for your defeat Vs aklo and i felt sorry about that and in retrospect that was a weird thing to say, hope you get the nouns thing for more tourneys gl

[@SSBMNicki]

I think Doc is in a similar boat as ICs were in 2021 where people said "it's not possible" just because there was no one to show what can be done. Doc has the tools, there just isn't the right person playing the character at a high enough level. People used to think that ICs vs Yoshi is unwinnable, when in reality no one knows what that matchup is like because it's so underdeveloped. If we have someone good enough to beat top 10 players with Doc but completely unable to ever get close to beating half of the relevant matchups, then we might be able to say more about it - someone just has to make it there. I think Doc and Luigi can make it happen, their punish game on spacies is good enough to make up for a lot of other weaknesses and the floatie matchups are just a question mark - it could be fine, it could not be. I tend to think that it's possible.

[@beehexistired]

@SSBMNicki thanks for the answer, i think it's an interesting perspective. i think Shroomed is a pretty interesting datapoint as he was, at least from what I've heard from other doc players, was sub-optimal in terms of punish and more niche techs, even for his time, but he probably was the best Doc main in fundamentals and that got him to being top 10 (I think 2013 Melee is like still a bit early but it's still interesting to think about). Luigi has an even better example with Plup too. ima just try to grind the marios to prove it i guess

[@thatkidkim]

i think its possible now that hbox has slumped where u dont need to beat him to win a major (and armada too he legit never lost to an icies player) ull still need more bracket luck

[@Roomba127]

Goat

[@frostyfrostbite406]

Yes

[@AutumnReel4444]

Yes, obviously. But the discussion is fun.

[@yonatanharris1539]

im coming from the future to say that icies win 6 supermajors before 2030

[@RIStar-ds7wr]

ICs can definitely win a major. But they can’t beat Hbox/SDJ or Trif/Llod/Polish I do think ICs needs a secondary fox or young link (lmao). Although I think most characters need a secondary

[@Z-I-P]

I'm really impressed by your run at DPoTG! You can win a major with ICs. Great work!

[@dysmorphiac]

You can, i believe!

[@ZetTroxX]

You made it this far hardly playing all these top players. I really do wonder what might be possible if you played them more regularly.

[@freddywondercat1362]

Yes.

[@MiloMusx]

Based nicki sensei

[@greffen]

Pound 2 Chudat as a major is crazy, but IMO this whole conversation is kind of dumb. icies could totally win a major :P

[@greffen]

I feel like your videos are usually conversations that are super interesting, but "could X win a major" will never be interesting to me because the answer (... IMO) will always be yes

[@Mezziuu21]

Yes you can believe

[@somerandombub]

Why do you use "-" as a name tag?

[@SSBMNicki]

@@somerandombub why not?

[@somerandombub]

@@SSBMNicki I was just wondering if there was any special reason behind it. I thought it might make it more obvious for the opponent which is the main ice climber, but if it does it's probably a very small help

[@user-wn7ko1uu3b]

chu won pound 2 so YEP

[@latheredtrillionaire5701]

No, but Slug can. :))

[@Figgy20000]

If Hugs can win a Dreamhack with Samus, why can't an Icies

[@iamawin8272]

I hope tf not

[@sareaper69]

That first Nikki x Mang0 set is going to go so hard. Because Mang0 will get 3-0'd.

[@jameswoodland2719]

Mango has a very strong record against ICs. With respect to Nicki, I think he might get rocked. If you’re reading this Nicki, he would probably be the #1 guy to watch out for (who is a GF bouncer but also realistic to beat).

[@sareaper69]

@jameswoodland2719 mang0 against top tier ICs is not that great lol. I can think of many occasions throughout time where he has been rocked. Mang0 versus weird characters is not so great. Yoshi, ICs, Puff nowadays. Dude looks pretty human.

[@peterparker9042]

@@jameswoodland2719 He dropped sets to many icies like fly amanita, wobbles, chu dat, nintendude, army, bananas, flipsy, and slug so I wouldn't say he has a 'very strong record' against them.

[@jameswoodland2719]

@ all of those mentioned Mang0 is even or better in set counts more than 1 except for Army I believe. And I think everyone who did beat him post wobbling went to game 3 or 5. So basically at best an IC can take an occasional set on game 5. Anyone who has played Mang0 a normal amount of sets has lost 70%+ of the time. I would say that is pretty strong, again at least for a realistic opponent. Obviously the strongest would be people like Hbox but I don’t think it’s realistic for Nicki to beat him because of the MU so I went with Mang0 who, unlike many spacies mains, is very good against ICs (and as a side note really good against foxes who is Nicki’s old main I think). All I am saying is to prepare for Mango, he’s been around long enough to know how to play against a character that relies on cheese.

[@sareaper69]

@jameswoodland2719 I appreciate the write up. Washed up fairweather Melee professional Mang0 isn't practising cheese matchups. He is getting fucked by the next great ICs he plays. He doesn't practise weird characters either. What's his record versus Amsa post-COVID? Or hbox post-COVID? Or what's his major winning percentage? Or what's his attitude towards the game like? Or how's his professional career looking rn? Lol!