Can we fix a Panasonic MII video recorder?

[@SumanAndJoyce]

My dad ran a wedding video business in the late 80's and 90's recording with 3-tube cameras to MII videocassette and using a three machine edit suite with a component video mixer, then finally duplicating the edited tapes down to VHS and S-VHS for customers. Many customers bought the edited MII master tapes with a view to copying down to future consumer formats when they arrived. My dad has long since retired now.

[@video99couk]

Yes I know that some small customers were using MII back in the day, primarily because it was cheaper than BetacamSP. I've seen wedding tapes, recordings from fire services, small film companies etc.

[@dronecrews.5302]

Currently have a 65H fully functioning and extender boards.

[@video99couk]

Wow. I could really use an extender board so I can repair that bad TBC panel.

[@Oldgamingfart]

That lacing mechanism is wild! Glad you have two machines as that has greatly sped up the process of fault-finding. I can only imagine something at this level of complexity soon becoming a bit of a head-scratcher, even for a seasoned technician. Great to see a working machine! :-)

[@video99couk]

Or even three machines it took, to fix this! I reckon there's a chance of getting the AU-63 running too, but it all takes time.

[@zhaohaigaogu7821]

It would be helpful to have an extension board. I used that board because it was difficult to adjust. I learned a lot until the end. 👍

[@TheFleetz]

Not sure why MII is getting such a bad wrap. It was a brilliant format that was released after Sony had well and truly established their SP BetaCam format. Never got the market traction it deserved. Panasonic tape transports across all their formats are market leaders. You have evoked some wonderful memories.

[@video99couk]

I think MII had several issues: 1: Because VHS is too big compared to Beta, Panasonic decided that the large tape would be VHS sized and the small tape smaller (whereas Betacam's small tape is Betamax sized). As a result, the tape is too thin on MII, making for an elaborate and unreliable tape path and fragile tapes. 2: A few MII decks support SVHS playback. This pointless feature fixed the head drum size and tape path in a probably non-ideal state, making for a complex deck which was hard to maintain. 3: Support from Panasonic was poor compared to Sony. From a personal perspective, I also think MII machines were excessively heavy, and this just makes maintenance harder. It's almost as though Panasonic design goals never included weight minimisation at all. Despite all that, I believe that on a good day, MII actually slightly outperforms BetacamSP.

[@XDCAMHD422]

@@video99couk There has never been a single MII player or recorder (Panasonic or JVC) that could play a VHS or S-VHS tape. I don't know where you got the information, but it is completely wrong. The one and only professional machine that could play S-VHS tapes was a JVC BR-D51. This player came from the first line of JVC's Digital-S (D-9) equipment. Great to see these beautiful MII machines again. Brings back lots of memories! 👍

[@video99couk]

@@XDCAMHD422 Yes there is one model of MII that can play S-VHS. I have the model number somewhere. Pointless feature though.

[@video99couk]

I have been advised that this is incorrect, so I will stand corrected on that unless I ever prove it otherwise. The later D9 format however could allow for S-VHS playback on some machines, though not mine.

[@TheFleetz]

@@video99couk definitely can assure you no MII unit had the ability to play or record VHS or S-VHS. I was involved in Panasonic’s roll out of MII’s here in Australia and supported all the MII products.

[@publicdomainproject]

Thank you for the video. Recorders are very hard to find and share videos are a great help! Thank you

[@Channel405]

Interesting video. I had a Panasonic MII portable recorder some years ago which i sold. Broadcast kit never really used S-Video connectors, either composite, component and later SDI. S-Video tended to be considered a prosumer connection rather than broadcast connection. Some Sony DSR DVCAM kit, UVW series Beta and PVM monitors had them I think but otherwise quite rare with serious broadcast kit.

[@video99couk]

Strangely, broadcast seemed to use Composite Video more often than S-Video, which is crazy. I see S-Video connectors on Sony compact Digibeta players and on Panasonic DVCPRO machines too.

[@retro-reels5652]

The ‘H’ series are ‘enhanced’ with additional features such as a digital decoder (AU-65H, AU-66H), 3D digital TBC with 1field correction window, 16:9 compatibility. They were introduced in the mid 90’s, along with the budget ‘W’ series. Tape deterioration is a huge problem now, hence the head clogging.

[@video99couk]

I wonder if those TBC features have ported across to the AU-65, or if they require menu settings which are unavailable. I would like to get the original TBC working but I just can't do it without an extender card. Yes, tape deterioration seems to be a bigger problem with MII than it is with BetacamSP, possibly due to thinner tape.

[@280634157]

@@video99couk 任何ADI高端芯片具有替代TBC的功能，SONY高端全部是ADI ADC

[@ConsumerDV]

Hi Colin! Great video about a forgotten format. It would be lovely if you scanned the booklets and uploaded them somewhere as PDFs, say to the Internet Archive :) The page spread in the booklet shown in your video was the only place I saw dimensions of the small cassette, I could not find them anywhere else on the Web! BTW, because of the uneven placement of the hubs does it mean that there is unused space to the left from the left hub? Seems inefficient. On the Umatic S the hubs are evenly spread, aren't they? I wonder why Panasonic could not make a cassette with symmetrically placed hubs since the machine still needs to have extra provisions for smaller tape. It would be nice to see lacing of both large and small cassettes, from the top and from the bottom, if you ever open these machines again.

[@video99couk]

The S cassette is loaded on the left side of the carriage, not in the centre as with other formats. I could scan in those booklets if I get some spare time.

[@mspysu79]

Congrats on getting the AU-65 working! Scott had it right about MII in general when he said, "That doesn't make sense"! There are no extra menu settings for the TBC in the Au 65H that I can see, as I have a US version.

[@martinhanson2382]

In the UK TV-Am, Thames TV and Anglia were the major users of the M2 format

[@video99couk]

Many of my tapes came from Thames. They used it to shoot "The Bill" amongst other things.

[@peopyt]

Looks Great Colin. Nice work. Do you know if these models support both PAL and ntsc systems? When it says 50-60 Hz and has a voltage selector in the back...

[@video99couk]

No, you have to have the NTSC or PAL model. Hence this is almost the only format I support in PAL only.

[@Capturing-Memories]

Scott is probably thinking " Dad, why are you making me do this?"

[@video99couk]

Scott likes to get involved!

[@Capturing-Memories]

@@video99couk I’m pretty sure he does, he is a smart kid.

[@stickytapenrust6869]

The lacing reminds me of the Sanyo VTC5*** series of machines.

[@video99couk]

Yes it does. Very Beta like apart from the dance of the some of the guides.

[@280634157]

I hope you will send more information about the specific disassembly and assembly process of the VTR movement circuit, thank you

[@video99couk]

I tried to repair the deck on one of these a long time ago. It's an awful thing to work on and I failed to fix it. So I'm probably not the expert on MII mechanisms.

[@280634157]

@@video99couk Hello, VTR. I have consulted some old engineers from Panasonic in China. They have repaired dozens of MIIs. Can you send me your Facebook private message, I will contact you, I can repair the servo and control board without replacing the PCB , TBC circuit.

[@retro-reels5652]

The MII mech certainly is over complicated, there are tension regulators on both the supply and take up side, and a timer roller for the reel servo system. This all needs to be carefully aligned with special jigs. A common problem on earlier machines was the rubber timer roller turning to goo, and then someone using the deck (without realising) and the tape would get stuck and then someone would yank it out, bending the tension arms in the process. Also, compatibility for small tapes adds complexity, although panasonic didn’t adopt a reel shift system like Sony (although Panasonic did introduce it on D3/D5). The thin tape doesn’t help matters either, even more so now it’s 30 odd years old ! The good thing with a Sony BVW is that with the removal of two screws, you could have the carriage out & access the whole mech. With the MII, there is a big plate above the elevator (4 screws) plus 2 screws either side of the bottom of the elevator (long handed screwdriver at the ready), plus you need to move the upper fascia forward (4 screws). In engineering time, this is two cups of tea & half a dozen biscuits, lol

[@video99couk]

Everything about MII seems harder to access than BetacamSP decks. I think reel shift is also used on DVCPRO, one of my machines takes three sizes natively plus a forth by adaptor! MII thin tape is a big problem, it was a flawed format in so many ways. I've been warned about the roller goo but been lucky so far.

[@XDCAMHD422]

Would you be so kind to look up the model number of that machine that also can playback S-VHS tapes? I really would like to know which deck this could do. Thank you very much in advanced for your precious time! Keep up the good work with all these beautiful and nostalgic machines.

[@video99couk]

I don't have one, I just know there is one. It has a very plain front, I think it was a player-only with very few controls and displays. I will have to try to look it up again when I get a moment.

[@senilyDeluxe]

Hmm maybe a bad solder connection on an SMD chip? That happens pretty often on boards of this vintage. Although tapping should have spotted that one. Maybe flexing the board? It's always nice having a spare...

[@video99couk]

I really need an extender card to debug that board properly.

[@BluePlanetMedia]

@@video99couk I wonder if it would be easier to make two cables instead of an extender.

[@280634157]

What liquid are you spraying? There is a saying that for normal MII, all four green lights on the keyboard are on. A vector video oscilloscope is needed for adjustment here. Thank you. SERVO LOCK, PNP picture-in-picture, SCH (chroma delay adjustment). DOLBY

[@andrew1479]

Scarily, S-VHS was used as a regular broadcast format in Malta! I know because during my time at IBF (London) we used to make S-VHS feature film masters for broadcasting over their national network. Yes, HDCAM (via an ARC) or DigiBeta to S-VHS dubs did happen.

[@video99couk]

Terrible. The chroma performance of S-VHS is the pits.

[@northernplacecorporation]

As I remembered, Panasonic's MII was used on British ITV stations TV-AM, Anglia, London Weekend Television and Thames Television, to transmit their stuff over there, before Thames Television and TV-AM both went defunct and both Anglia and LWT switched the broadcast formats over to Betacam SP.

[@musmodtos]

Definitely Anglia, there's a short video online of Timmy Mallet (!) at a TVam archive and they look like Betacam tapes, but with TVam heaven knows... Court artists and CVC wouldn't surprise me in the slightest!

[@northernplacecorporation]

@@musmodtos Proof?

[@musmodtos]

@@northernplacecorporation Of what bud?

[@northernplacecorporation]

@@musmodtos A video of Timmy Mallet at an TV-AM archive.

[@musmodtos]

@@northernplacecorporation kzbin.info/www/bejne/gYu3eIKveaaBmtU - It's not clear, but I'd say those grey boxes (and it looks like one out of a case you might be able to make out) are Betacam? All of the other cases are the same height and 'look' shorter than the DVD cases. That said, it doesn't mean much, there's a reference to VHS in the video but that doesn't mean they are the tapes that are in shot? It's interesting, they probably did use MII (was it cheaper!?) - I'm only speculating, I'm only throwing this out there. I'm likely wrong. But this is TVam after all, like I said, their archive could be lithograph or wax cylinders and I'd probably believe it.

[@andrew1479]

MII as used by Thames Television and London Weekend Television I seem to remember.

[@video99couk]

Most of my tapes are from Thames Television.

[@DrCassette]

Thanks for another interesting video! So the name MII for the system was deceiving, given that the machines used a U loading mechanism... Also, given that the MII system still records only chrominance and luminance signals, does that mean that Betacam SP was still better quality as it records luminance and two colour differential signals for component video?

[@video99couk]

I had meant to mention that the M part of MII was meaningless since it laces like a Beta / Umatic. My understanding is that it's a full component colour signal so the quality is essentially identical to BetacamSP, possibly even slightly higher resolution.

[@retro-reels5652]

The original ‘M’ format did use M wrap. I guess they couldn’t think of a different naming convention for the 2nd generation machines. I could never work out what the ‘AU’ stood for in the model naming. At least with Sony, it’s fairly common knowledge that ‘BVW’ stands for Broadcast Video Workhorse.

[@video99couk]

@@retro-reels5652 Although there was the BVW-22P which wasn't intended for broadcast at all, but we can brush that one under the carpet.

[@FixedHDD]

@@retro-reels5652 It goes 'AG' - 'AJ' - 'AU' in terms of product range. 'AG' denotes mid-tier, 'AJ' main-tier and 'AU' their high-end tier broadcast equpiment.

[@Super8Rescue]

as big as a microwave oven! great job

[@cttv90108]

Is there much m2 transfer work to be had? Here in the States I think NBC was the only network that adopted m2

[@video99couk]

Not much, but I do get a few tapes per year.

[@azmath2059]

We have plenty here at the British Film Institute and we're digitising right now!

[@jasejj]

Funny you mention poor video quality on MII. I recall that, although presentation generally improved considerably at Anglia when they put their installation in in 1989, the video quality of much of their playout took a nose-dive, it was really noticeable. Yorkshire TV and Tyne Tees, who both had slightly aged Bosch B-type 1" installations, looked considerably better (although TTTV had continuing issues with noisy audio). I have heard numerous stories of machines breaking down completely in-service, so they don't seem to have been particularly reliable.

[@northernplacecorporation]

There's no way to pin the time-base correction board VJB88062 down without the MII extender card on the Panasonic AU-65 recorder. That resulted in replacing the VJB88062 with the VJB88091 time-base correction board (with the addition of a daughterboard in it) from the Panasonic AU-63H.

[@billannau7668]

I have a working AU65 and extender boards! I might give you a call.

[@video99couk]

It would be nice to sort out that other TBC panel, which needs an extender board. I could possibly then revive one more machine. Is there more than one extender board? You can email if you like: [e-mail]

[@PeterMilanovski]

If all that you are using is an ESR meter, you are never going to find the bad capacitors! Unfortunately there's no easy way to do it apart from taking the capacitors out of the PCB board and testing them with an LCR Bridge Meter! And don't rely on ESR readings! You need to know it's drain (also known as EPR Equivalent Parallel Resistance) which is the failure mode that takes out the next or previous component in line with it... ESR measurement is more important in the power supply section where a capacitor with high ESR isn't smoothing out the rectifier ripple. Another great way to test capacitors is to see what it's actual capacity is compared to what it's rated for, if it's capacity shows up slightly below it's rating, then that usually means that it's okay. If it's way lower, then it's possible that it's high ESR, if it's capacity has gone up! (Capacitors don't get better with age LoL) then it has low parallel resistance and that's really bad! That's DC leakage and because it's leaking DC, the tester takes longer to measure it and thinks that it's a higher capacity than what it really is... So, I'm afraid that a simple ESR meter isn't going to tell you what you need to know! I spotted an LCR Bridge Meter on eBay years ago but I didn't get it because it looked very complicated to use, that was until another one of my favourite KZbin superstars did a great review and how to use it and I knew right there and then that I had to get one! It cost me $95Au, the version which I got was the black one with blue screen and internal USB C rechargeable battery! I love it, I don't know how I ever tested capacitors without it! If you are interested in seeing what this thing can do for you, head on over to XRayTonyB's channel and scroll through his videos until you see a silver aluminium cased thing with a lime green LCD screen! It's also a great channel if you are interested in repairing vintage audio equipment and he throws in a lot of tips and tricks, he's an amazing resource as is Mr Carlson's Lab channel! I'm not into visual equipment but you content is actually really good and I also like that you involved your children, as a father myself, I always try to involve my kids in everything even if they don't like it, experience has taught me that even though they weren't interested back then, they actually found it useful later in life and I have been thanked many times since... Anyway enough from me, looking forward to seeing the rest up and running.. Cheers 😊

[@video99couk]

I am aware of capacitors with leakage, but generally that was a problem on older capacitors, 1970s or earlier. The failure mode on modern ones is generally ESR. In one of my previous videos, I repair an old Grundig DCI format recorder, and the capacitors in that were leaky, often showing high value on an ESR meter. If I have to take a capacitor off the board, I generally replace it anyway. To repair this TBC board, what I really need is an extender card. I'm not at all sure that it's a capacitor problem.

[@northernplacecorporation]

Can't you get the Panasonic AU-63 MII Auto-tracking VTP reliably work?

[@video99couk]

I need to rebuild another power supply (I have one) and could then work on it. But have many other tasks first. Bought some PCM equipment today.

[@northernplacecorporation]

@@video99couk Oh. OK, Colin.

[@spbturismo]

Hello. I have a video head unit whizzing when playing on sony betamax. does this bearing require lubrication? can I carefully lubricate by removing the lower cap of the electric motor. and with the help of a syringe and a long needle, run a drop of liquid engine oil near the main rod? I take it this will remove the mechanical creak? I would not like to completely disassemble the video head unit itself, as I have no experience. a few drops of oil? or will vd40 grease work? I understand that it would not be too much oil to squeeze out of the syringe? otherwise, it will fly to the side and may stain the video heads? thanks

[@video99couk]

I've not done this on a Sony Beta head. You might not be able to get to all of the bearings, but you could only try.

[@crashbandicoot4everr]

Sometimes the bearings get gummed up. Other times the coils of the rotary transformer fall apart and cause a mess. I recently repaired a Panasonic VHS head drum by taking the rotor and stator apart, lubricating the bearings and glueing back one of the coils of the rotary transformer. It's a very time-consuming task as you have to remove the entire head drum, re-route the wires and reinstall the drum in the exact same position it came from once you're done fixing it. Adjustment of the PG shifter (head switching point) was also required after installing the drum because the rotor of the lower drum has the two PG magnets on it and it went slightly out of alignment after reinstalling.

[@spbturismo]

@@crashbandicoot4everr thank you for the info

[@northernplacecorporation]

Interesting!

[@northernplacecorporation]

Now, can you get the JVC BR-S622E and BR-S822E fully working?

[@video99couk]

Time is my enemy. So much to do at the moment (we're having building works done too).

[@northernplacecorporation]

@@video99couk Oh. OK.

[@markhodgson2348]

What type of oil do you recommend for loading mechanism?

[@video99couk]

I use Singer machine oil, but other people may have other preferences.

[@XDCAMHD422]

Have you seen this traning video for Panasonic's MII equipment? kzbin.info/www/bejne/pHLcmYyGj853eJY

[@video99couk]

Wow, a lot of detail there. You certainly wouldn't want to start messing with the alignment of an MII.

[@zx8401ztv]

Well swapped, a working machine :-D Lucky you had a spare timebase corrector/other board :-D The original could have an aged crystal and it's close to the edge of the correct frequecy. A movable cardboard partition could be used to screen off sections of the pcb, just to work out where the dodgy parts are. The recapped psu does seem fine :-D Torturing your son with ancient vcr's lol :-D

[@video99couk]

I really need an extender card to isolate that TBC fault.

[@Oldgamingfart]

Yes I was thinking crystal as well. Used to be a pretty common issue with domestic TV's and video recorders. The common complaint, of course, being poor colour lock or a black and white image.

[@MichaelKukat]

Due to the lack of extenders, I soldered flying leads to spots of interest to hook up the scope on the boards I had to analyze in the past. It's an annoying extra work but better than nothing. Repaired a Sony DXC-327P and BVW-300P after full SMD recap this way. Both suffered some PCB damage and shorts due to the electrolyte, some dead opamps on the BVW-300P came as extra, likely destroyed by electrolyte creeping under them, causing shorts. But it's definitely much more pleasing to find the last problems in my fully recapped (300!) BVW-50P with it"s nice maintainability. Not that I'm a big friend of dead through holes but I started to have some sick sort of fun with fixing a new problem every day since a week :) Good luck with those TBC boards. Rare machines worth being preserved. And thanks for clarifying those 7pin Hirose S-Video connectors, I wondered about them on some cameras and CCUs, which don't have extra signals for dubbing on them, so they looked stupid, but now it makes sense.

[@zx8401ztv]

@@Oldgamingfart Yep and often they used a crystal of double the frequency for some reason. I cant quite remember the frequency, i used to know 30 years back, dam memory :-( My memory keeps kicking up the value of pi lol.

[@clubmadarasrider9854]

Yes, we can do and repair everything. If there is money and somebody to pay.

[@gerrywade4482]

You can see why Panasonic did not do well when it came to Broadcast VTR's. M Format , MII Format, D3, D5, D5HD DVCPro, DVCOro50, DVCProHD all notoriously unreliable machines but great when they are working. MII was better Image quality than Beta-SP but notorious for dropouts.

[@video99couk]

Imagine how bad the dropouts are now the tapes and machines are a few decades older.

[@280634157]

Why is the freezing spray sprayed on when the circuit is working and can wake up the circuit? Why? Will it cause a short circuit? Is this freezing spray available in China? Is it toxic? What brand do I need to buy?

[@video99couk]

Heat or cold can make some faults come and go, depending what the defect is. I suspected this fault was caused by a bad capacitor, when they fail they can become very temperature sensitive. The freezer spray is non-toxic. Here is a UK web site which sells it, but it is very expensive! uk.rs-online.com/web/c/facilities-cleaning-maintenance/electronics-cleaners-protective-coatings/freezer-sprays/ I'm sure it will be available in China too.

[@280634157]

@@video99couk What liquid are you spraying? There is a saying that for normal MII, all four green lights on the keyboard are on. A vector video oscilloscope is needed for adjustment here. Thank you. SERVO LOCK, PNP picture-in-picture, SCH (chroma delay adjustment). DOLBY

[@280634157]

@@video99couk What liquid are you spraying? There is a saying that for normal MII, all four green lights on the keyboard are on. A vector video oscilloscope is needed for adjustment here. Thank you. SERVO LOCK, PNP picture-in-picture, SCH (chroma delay adjustment). DOLBY

[@280634157]

@@video99couk This low-temperature collision method is very useful. Will it burn the circuit board? In fact, the circuit principle is like this. ADC A/D chips are called timing integration capacitors in China. They are generally near Y/C IC and have a relatively large capacity. Just replace it.

[@280634157]

@@video99couk My MII service manual lacks 7-26 content. Can you take a picture for me? Or scan and send it to my mailbox, and I will repair its circuit board. Thank you

[@280634157]

What liquid are you spraying?

[@eggplantcasserole]

Freezer spray

[@280634157]

@@eggplantcasserole Why is the freezing spray sprayed on when the circuit is working and can wake up the circuit? Why? Will it cause a short circuit? Is this freezing spray available in China? Is it toxic? What brand do I need to buy?

[@eggplantcasserole]

@@280634157 If you don't know what freezer spray is and whether it is suitable for your needs, look it up. It is non-conductive and for use on live circuits - just as Colin does. Companies that make service aerosols like Chemtronics will make it, but you'll have to find a local source (try a manufacturer of IPA, contact cleaner etc.)

[@gerrywade4482]

Capacitor Cancer. Good luck with that

[@advisevo2153]

MII was a lousy, terrible format as the Hi8 pro from Sony.

[@video99couk]

Hi8 wasn't well suited to professional use for the same reason as SVHS, not enough chroma bandwidth. MII was terrible because it was unreliable.