Can we make games less toxic? YES. (But it's complicated)

#leagueoflegends #heroesofthestorm #moba
Oh boy, video games! We love video games. 😭😤 We love them. 🤬
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Thanks to‪@ChipmunkuChan‬ for drawing our beautiful MOBA players :P (and our very happy couple on the couch (and our slap-happy gnome))
And thank you to all of my guest voices!!
Kevin from‪@PixelLit‬ , ‪@hotcyder‬ , ‪@Darkfry‬ , ‪@Chariot_Rider‬ , and Josh from ‪@JoshWithParentheses‬.
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ThatJess's video on Toxicity in League of Legends: • How League of Legends ...
The Innuendo Studios video I referenced (the train anecdote): • Why Are You So Angry? ...

[@Darkfry]

It was an honor to contribute to this video with both my voice and cluelessness

[@Afterthoughts]

Your services are appreciated! :D

[@Eira_99]

I remember when people complained about the lack of voice chat in Splatoon 2, but honestly. I don't need my teammates to hear me cursing them out for doing something I don't like, just like how i don't need that in response either lol. A lot of JP games do this actually, no voice chat, just a few pre-written options to send, only the communication you actually need to make, I prefer it tbh. MonHun and Splatoon and such would be so much less fun with teammates yelling in my ear.

[@Afterthoughts]

Right... I don't like to think that the solution is to prevent players from talking to each other, because that's kind of sad, isn't it? It feels like capitulating to the worst impulses of the playerbase, some of whom REALLY DO SUCK, but many of whom only suck from time to time lmao. But prioritizing the feelings of people who are getting harassed does seem like the correct prioritization :/ I do like when I see players standing up for each other. Like, if someone is cussing out another player, it's heartwarming to see another person say "don't be a jerk." (It's too bad that often results in the toxic person ragequitting or doubling-down)

[@miimiiandco]

My main problem with Splatoon's communication is that there needs to be more options than just "This way!" and "Booyah!"

[@Kentanyl]

Omg monhun with vc would go so bad, LS and IG would be hated so hard, and youll have the one ss/hh player just there tryna improve moral, a full time job for the support player.

[@redridingcape]

I think that it has less to do with the ways people are able to communicate and more about the target demographic of the game and how frustrating the game is when things go badly.

[@Eira_99]

@@redridingcape You clearly haven't played these games if you think they're not some of the most rage inducing games I've ever played. Splatoon will make your blood boil real good, since most people wanna kill and forget it's got different objectives from standard shooters. Everyone I know yells a lot while playing splatoon.

[@titusfortunus2916]

to describe online play at its nature, let's talk about my favorite LoL streamer, i0ki, and his philosophy: "There is a finite amount of fun in every League of Legends game. In order for you to have *more* fun, you must ensure someone else has *less* fun. Getting a pentakill as a 20/0 Draven is insanely fun. Being the 0/12 botlane against him is insanely not fun." But I used to be INSANELY toxic, and a lot of it came from insecurities, like you said, about wanting to prove I was good enough at this thing I invested myself into. Fighting Games helped me fix that. Fighting games, there was no one else to blame, it was just me vs. just my opponent. Sure, there were tier lists, but they changed every 3 weeks, and even then, they only applied to the toppest of the top elite high echelon players, much like LoL tier lists where you get people insisting Nasus OP even though he hasn't seen tournament play in the last.... what, 6 years? Anyways, fighting games had it to where I just had to admit to myself, "I'm not bad. This other person is simply better than me. I just need to practice more. For every hour I have invested, they have invested just as much and then some." It started as a woe-is-me poor pity party, sure. But by the end of it... I LOVED getting my ass whooped. I'm a VERY skilled blocker, my defense is wildly powerful, I can block almost any set of cross ups, frame traps, mix ups, I can tech throws (sometimes). What I can't do is have a consistent offense. I lose because my offense is just weak, I get so excited I landed a hit that my brain just empties out the priority and load that I was saving as a "what to do" and I drop it. BUT what it does mean is that when someone finally does kill me, I have watched them DRAGON-BALL-Z INSTANT TRANSMISSION MY ASS 100 TIMES. High low high frametrap grab-tech bait out empty jump low and I finally crack, I go "damn, dude... that was NUTTY! Your character looks INSAAAANE, like, genuinely OP! I know he's low tier but fuck dude you make it look EASY!" I get EXCITED to lose, because I have seen what a GOOD game looks like. I was a part of a GOOD GAME. Even if I was on the losing side. He did some cracked shit, took some wild risks, made a PSYCHO play, and finally opened me up and won.

[@Afterthoughts]

"I'm not bad. This other person is simply better than me." ^ love this. because I barely touched on how demoralizing it can feel when you're genuinely trying to improve at the game and yet you KEEP getting stomped. It's really frustrating, it can make you feel like you're hopeless, lol. This is a good case where it can be helpful to remember that the other person is also someone who tries hard, practices, and is maybe a bit further along at the moment. I like that.

[@gwen9939]

I also jumped on fighting games after League and they confirmed something I already knew about video game toxicity: It's not about winning or losing, it's not even about showing you're better than other people or about ego in large part - It's about not wanting to be bullied. 5v5/6v6/10v10 games are bully simulators. You don't want to be the odd one out who gets the lion's share of the blame, deserved or not, because it singles you out as a target, and when most people feel this way they'd rather be part of the larger group piling on than risk being at the receiving end. And when this pattern continues game after game eventually every player in a lobby is entering it with their guard fully up, already throwing punches so that they don't have to take them when they're least expecting them. You can be a good and kind person, but undergo this kind of mild psychosocial abuse on a regular basis and you WILL become toxic, because you are not acting out of hate or a bloated ego - you're acting out of fear, and one that is thoroughly validated by your past experiences. And into that cocktail you throw in the "dark humor" attitude of edgelord teens and boys past their teen years but still act like they're in them. When very overt displays of racism, ableism, and homophobia, and especially misogyny become emblematic of gaming spaces, you suddenly you have a community that self-selected itself into the worst kind of people who were willing to stick around and tolerate that kind of behavior - primarily because that kind of bigotry doesn't really hit them where they live. And since they've been conditioned into always escalating confrontations and bring the past grievances into the next lobby of strangers, soon extreme edgy bigotry becomes their first weapon of choice whenever they feel a hint of being threatened of belittled in an online lobby of strangers. But fighting games aren't like that, they're like sparring matches where you respect your opponent(well, maybe not Ken players) and you don't want your win to prove your opponent is bad, you want to win to prove that you've improved as a player. This is what ACTUALLY being a competitive player is about, because you actually have to put in effort and practice to improve, like doing drills for a sport or playing scales on an instrument. League/overwatch/CS:GO/Apex/etc... the majority of players aren't "competitive", they're addicted, and the frustration and the lies they tell themselves about "being serious" is part of the drug.

[@JRTIntervencion]

This is so sweet. Sometimes you gotta take the L and just appreciate how ridiculously outplayed you're getting. I'm still gonna try to comeback, but I try to appreciate when i'm just being used as a punching bag X) (the alternative is to get tilted and angry and have even less fun!)

[@phancaophaiadrien1100]

Same for me but with starcraft 2 ^^ gave me a waaaay healthier set of mind goi.g in games as a whole

[@thelengendzach7473]

hope everyone is doing good

[@fluffycat679]

(Full bit at 38:58) After this I tried to imagine how excited my opponents must be after such a flawless victory and I imagined they would want to take a victory lap and do a little dance, and honestly how can I be mad at someone so excited to have won that they would burst into dance (even if they're only my imaginary version of them), and now I want to be dancing WITH them!

[@Afterthoughts]

Haha you can absolutely do a little dance for them! :D

[@moonblaze2713]

Honestly, this is something I love TF2 for. I used to think it was kinda weird and a little toxic that at the end of the round they take away the losing team's weapons and give the winners a chance to hunt them down. But what winds up happening is, well one of two things. Sometimes I hive five or otherwise partner taunt a winner, helping to congratulate them, but usually it turns into a little mini game of hide and seek where if I survive I get a little victory out of the defeat and if I die I can laugh at it because it doesnt really matter; the game was over. The winning team gets their victory lap and I'm kind of participating. Its amusing and a good way to defuse tension.

[@nameofsoph]

for extra youtube enrichment i play a little game with myself where i bestow my 'like' upon a video at the exact moment when i feel it has elevated itself beyond its premise and in this instance that moment was the gnome slap. thank you and godspeed.

[@Afterthoughts]

Haha! 😂 thank you for letting me know! I like that lil game

[@CanTabOfWisdom]

Yo, I play the same game! For me it was 4:16 "So I did what nerds do, and I made a s p r e a d s h e e t" *enter Wii shop theme* But there are so many other good moments in this I'm just a sucker for a spreadsheet joke lol

[@Afterthoughts]

@@CanTabOfWisdom glad I can deliver on your spreadsheet-based comedy desires :)

[@limendime3720]

It's so validating to see another woman making videos about these sort of things. I really relate to the fear of "justifying" the stereotypes around being female and playing games, especially because I am bad at the only online multiplayer game that I play. Your end note is also greatly appreciated. It is labor to help manage/adjust the emotions of others, and it is okay to take breaks or simply not attempt to.

[@dortuff]

Looks cool, I'm a come back with popcorn in two days for the premire.

[@why3994]

o hey are you back yet?

[@dortuff]

@@why3994 I was asleep, I back now

[@joltganda]

Hey! You will never in your entire life see this comment, but thank you for this video. I don’t play MOBAs, but I recently got out of what felt like an abuse relationship. From a friend, my BF is awesome. That friend is a League player. Suddenly his behavior makes so much sense! Every single thing you explained about League of Losers’ toxicity perfectly applied to him! I feel like every single question I could’ve asked just got answered from this one video. While our friendship will likely never be repaired, I’m content with knowing what made me not like him anymore. Thank you again and have a wonderful timezone.

[@Afterthoughts]

Hey look, a comment! I'm glad you're not in that situation anymore, though sorry to hear about losing a friendship! :/ yeah I'm trying to reflect now on whether I brought any of my bad behaviors from the game out into the "real world," but my bad behaviors in the game definitely at least STEMMED from some stuff I needed to fix internally. Some of it was self-esteem, some of it was related to how I thought it was okay to treat other people, and having an outlet where it felt more okay to express that was certainly not a good thing.

[@washingtonirving8240]

your videos are always so high-quality and enjoyable. can't wait for the next one!!

[@Afterthoughts]

Thank you so much, Washington Irving Irving Washington! 😄

[@lilyofluck371]

34:21 omg surprise dimension 20 reference!!!??? I think you're my favorite KZbinr now

[@UninstalledLeague]

Former League player here. Your video resonates with me a lot. The world needs more people like you. So much respect. It took me a long time to evolve and grow as a person. Much like you, I've had to learn these things the hard way; on my own, which was especially difficult as an autistic person. Your video is a positive influence in my life. I'm grateful to know that you're out there... to know i'm not the only one in these feelings (which you've explained wonderfully, so much better than I ever could). I've made some videos on my channel, (back when I was still learning). I don't talk that much, but still I'm happy to share them with you. Thank you. Thanks to you and skooch and Dr. K. Kind regards, sunshine.

[@TheApoke]

Whenever I had a friend tilting in valo, I would normally say something positive like "cmon guys we can do this" and sometimes I'd say "a year from now, do you think you'll still be angry about this match?"

[@Afterthoughts]

Yeah, I like that. I think my approach is moving more toward talking about positive things when they happen, even in a losing match, even when the only positive things that happen are "wow that player who is crushing us is really really good," haha. I like to help set the tone.

[@DarkSoulsSauron]

this is such a cool project and essay. thank you for this!

[@Afterthoughts]

Aw, yay! :) glad you liked it!

[@Twilight710]

As much as all we can do as players is change ourselves, the language and systems the games employ create mindsets that set us up for toxicity. honestly if i could id remove a lot of negative language from games (following on from ur stuff abt compersion), something as simple as seeing 'red wins/blue wins' over 'victory/defeat' would go a long way towards celebrating enemy victories just as much as our own

[@Afterthoughts]

That's such a good point! I never thought about that - clearly, HOTS has that functionality, because in the replay it displays "Red Team/Blue Team Wins." I totally agree that this would be a great change toward making small mindset shifts in the playerbase.

[@tbotalpha8133]

Meanwhile, Team Fortress 2 has lose-states that directly denigrate the losing team, with a mocking voiceover and disappointed music. It also has a brief post-round period where the game takes away the losing team's weapons, and allows the winning team to chase the losers down and kill them with impunity. The losers even adopt special animations during this period, where they flee and cower in fear. Losing a round is openly, actively, intentionally humiliating for the losers. And then there's the fact that getting three kills in a row on the same player marks you as "dominating" them, clearly visible in the killfeed for all players to see. And the player's character will vocally mock the enemy player after scoring a domination. And the player you dominated will see an icon above your head for the rest of the match, clearly indicating that you're the person who dominated them (unless they kill you and get "revenge", also announced in the killfeed for all to see). And yet Team Fortress 2 isn't anywhere near as toxic as League of Legends. Because the basic structure of the game, and the power-dynamics it creates between players, are vastly less encouraging and enabling of toxic behaviour. The language of a game doesn't matter if its foundation is infuriating. People complain that Monopoly is slow, boring and frustrating. Yet there are hundreds of other economic trading games out there that are faster, livelier and less annoying, *because they are better designed.* A better paintjob won't fix a badly-made car.

[@darthvaderreviews6926]

@@tbotalpha8133 For the record, I don't think it's as simple as that. TF2's loss state is humiliating in theory, but it _does_ provide players more agency than the overwhelming majority of games locking out control to look at a defeat screen. Surviving the surrender state (or, god forbid, getting a taunt kill) is kind of like a minigame, and it could almost be seen as a precursor to Titanfall's match epilogue system. And while dominations are absolutely a thing, revenges are also a thing and honestly usually feel better to pull off than getting dominated feels bad IMO. But yes, it's absolutely true that MOBA's toxicity is mostly down to their fundamental design. Just some food for thought about how mechanics that _seemingly_ reinforce hostile competition can actually be pretty cool too

[@Vektorien545]

I believe the feeling of no control is a core aspect of what makes people toxic. It's not giving up first blood in LoL that's the problem, it's when a random stranger hands a clear advantage to the enemy that *you* will have to deal with through no fault of your own. I can make wrong decisions over and over in a fighter but at least it was my decisions that made me lose. Fighting games can be a real slap in the face because it's entirely your fault for losing. The opposing player has directly proven that they can beat you and you can't beat them. Putting in effort to learn all system mechanics, interactions and grinding combos to memory only to get slapped with a big "YOU LOSE" should be disheartening but it really just makes me want to do better next time because that's something I can control and improve on my own.

[@realdragon]

In TF2 game is booing you for losing with Administrator saying "You failed!". There's specific taunt where characters laugh at you

[@kirito3082]

All chat has basically nothing to do with toxicity, the overwhelming supermajority of toxicity comes from your own teammates.

[@Croutonium]

Awesome video! Definitely gonna share this around in a bunch of chats. The more we spread messages like this, the more likely they are to start sinking in.

[@Afterthoughts]

I hope your chat friends find it helpful! Yeah, if I can help any other players feel better about the hobbies they WANT to love, that would be a huge win :')

[@LinuxVeteran]

My usual anti-toxicity message is just "Don't be like that." It's not very directly confrontational, normally doesn't escalate the situation much more than it is, and (hopefully) will make the person on the receiving end self-reflect a little in an "I'm not mad, I'm just disappointed" way. Sometimes people aren't savable with it, but I've found that it seems to usually work.

[@lightros47]

Watched a few of your videos over the past couple days and the part about making an effort to be kind in this video reminded me that I should make an effort to show my appreciation. So yeah - thanks for these videos! They're great and I appreciate them.

[@coynelaundry]

same thought! 🎉

[@dinoextreme632]

I remember when I used to play league (mostly towards the end of my time there) I would respond yo toxicity with sarcasm and jokes. Like, I was still tilted and it showed in my responses, but my replies were so outlandish and stupidly shocking that the other person either joined in on the fun, stopped or kept on being toxic (to which I would keep being snarky and all). This has been a very good video btw, like, you are right that by trying to remove your own toxicity you are doing a great job at stopping toxicity in your games. It's still very hard to do, but with effort you can start enjoying your games again. Which is the reason why we play in the forst place lul.

[@Afterthoughts]

haha I think that's a great way to respond :) I could see that working; if you turn the whole thing into a big joke, it's hard for the other person to stay SOOper SERIOusS

[@orsolyafekete7485]

Kinda similar, my favourite thing was when someone started yelling in my first language (Hungarian), thinking they can get away with the most awful stuff, because only they understand what they say, I would just type back in Hungarian: "Now, now, that's not a very nice thing to say" They always shut up after that :D

[@ems9616]

+++❤

[@SoulDevoured]

I've found that calling someone the most absurd thing that pops into my head actually helps alot. Not just with games but also with road rage. I'll be flaming mad and yell "you stupid cheese-fucked dickhole." And find myself laughing about what I just said and less stuck on what they'd just done. It's a good self redirection.

[@Ingu.z]

"Do you kiss your mom with that mouth?" has been surprisingly effective at shutting down the worst toxicity ime. I suspect it's also a bit humiliating and humbling to get something vile re-framed in what persons in their private live would think about what they just said. Anyway, really wholesome video in that it's kind of a coming of age story expressed through toxicity in video games, and that things can get better, and that people have power over their own expressions. Or, how I stopped worrying what others think and instead love others. But any competitive person will get tilted. And that's fine and fair, really. Though people ought to learn to just zip it and take a break once the game is over. Plus, I think complementing good plays also enables you to recognize when and what is out of your control, and that some things are just not worth the effort to get mad over.

[@DevKerrigan]

the vindication of seeing that transition at 10:21 is incomparable. I've lurked at the periphery of game development and moderation for years and this has been the tentpole of everything for me; systems. define. engagement. if playing like a bastard is the simplest, the easiest, the most satisfying, intuitive, challenging, or the fastest way to achieve anything, then your players are going to become bastards as optimization takes hold, invariably. It's like a mold you press them into.

[@BramdeGrootYT]

Is that... stock footage of Alan Rickman flipping a table?

[@Afterthoughts]

Ok imma make your day - search "epic tea time with Alan Rickman"

[@BramdeGrootYT]

@@Afterthoughts Alright that's amazing

[@BramdeGrootYT]

British people when their tea isn't 80% milk

[@Afterthoughts]

@@BramdeGrootYT hahahah

[@brainbenderNo1]

Loved the video and how it parallels my own experience! I also am a reformed League player and had a really unhealthy relationship with the game, playing it until 2-4 AM even on school nights. Although I definitely learned early on to leverage the mute button and was able to brush off flaming, I still had my moments of rage, and frustration that a lot of the time I tried to keep to myself and not type out. One day I did it, managed to stop playing League cold turkey and I ended up having a way better relationship with video games in general. Years later and with a brand new friend group, I actually got in to Hots and felt so much peace. When you mentioned 18% of games involved toxicity I was actually surprised. In my now 4 years of playing hots I can barely remember any semblance of toxicity. Granted that's probably because I mostly play only with my friend group and there's no all chat, but even playing with random ppl it was all just jokes and fun. All that to say, thank you for sharing your experience with us ❤️

[@Afterthoughts]

Yeah I was also very generous with my definition of toxicity - I would mark a game as toxic even if just one or two mean things were said, even if they stopped. If I'd restricted myself to JUST game-ruining toxicity, it would be much much lower :) Thanks for sharing your story and glad you've been having more good experiences recently! :D

[@lukasausen]

my name in league is AKALI from (insert the city i live in) and im going to be honest having a troll or engaging name in game makes you find SO MUCH more good games, even if someone is toxic if you find someone from your city i dont even get tilted in the slightest, even enemy team players when they find im from their city is such a cool thing and a good conversation starter made A LOT of friends both in game and in real life because of my nick playing league wich is kinda crazy....

[@FinnishArsonist]

I really like this video, and I honestly love the approach of just... being kind to others even if they are upset, because it works. It's something you can see working, even outside of games - anybody will get defensive, their metaphorical walls will be raised if they are yelled at, or if they are harassed, and then no communication will be done - but by offering kindness, people can, and will change - just like how that ping guy calmed down. Of course, as you said, it is effort, and different people have different tolerances - and that's okay! I think that anybody can change, and that no matter how far down they are, they can change, and that throwing negativity at them will only prevent change. And the point you made about telling people stuff about how there are other lives, I think a point could have been touched on shame - A lot of toxicity (and just negativity in general) comes from insecurity, the feeling of needing to show results for whatever purpose, and saying stuff like 'other people have lives too' only fuels those insecurities. One thing though that I would disagree with is at 45:52 - I don't think that the sentiment of 'it's just a game' is true at all - what, really differentiates a video game from any other hobby? it's something people invest emotionally into. it's an experience you live. Recently I have picked up quite a bit of that silly little jumping square game popular in 2015 (geometry dash lmao), and it has really changed my mindset on games as a whole - I would like to say 'healthier', but that's pretty damn relative. It's helped me tolerate failure more, and that has been really apparent in other games I play - The hardest level i've beaten took me just under 7000 tries (ReRust btw), for a minute and thirty second level. at that point, you *have* to know how to deal with failure, and that not just tolerance, but self-reflection, and most of all, *acceptance* of faliure, that it will happen and that's perfectly fine. Any video on improving at that game will tell you how much of a mental game it is - it's even put life habits into a more tangible perspective. My ADHD medications make it quite difficult for me to eat while they are in my system, and as a result my eating habits have slipped over the last year - but this silly little cube game basically forced me to eat more, and get better sleep quality, and even get better at managing emotions if I wanted to improve - it may not be very obvious in a lot of games, but when you are stringing together ***multiple timings where you have less than a 30th of a second to input***, suddenly your brain not being quite there due to sleep or stress or hunger, it changes a lot. At that point, can I really say that it's just a game? even if it didn't push me to improve myself in that way, when I invest over 10 hours into completing a minute and thirty seconds of gameplay, that's still... a lot of emotional investment put into something. even in the case of other games, you are still investing effort, and just as there are positive emotions, there will be negative emotions - it's of course up to you to manage your own emotions, but when it comes to negative communication between 2 people, I believe that it can't be just one person's fault, or else it would not have started. anyways that was a lot of rambling

[@Afterthoughts]

Right, I would lump it with all other hobbies, where how we treat others is concerned. It's just like knitting, skiing, drawing, football, book club - taking a step back and asking ourselves why we do this, how we manage the negative aspects, and where we let our anger affect the people around us, we should consider the stakes at play!

[@TheLegendofGumby]

14:40 😂😂 the butt rock in game trailers will never cease to amuse me

[@Afterthoughts]

IT’S SO MUCH

[@marinocturne]

damn this is quickly becoming my favorite channel! everything is so well thought out and put together, plus funny as hell!

[@Afterthoughts]

Aw ^_^ thanks for this comment! Hooray!

[@nunyabiznes7446]

As someone who's played pretty much every moba out there (your mental health journey was being less toxic, mine was shifting to almost exclusively sinlge-player games lol) I agree with pretty much all your conclusions. I can also certify that you went from probably the most toxic moba to the least toxic moba. I do think I place more of the responsibility on the devs than you do. In my mind the two most important factors in deciding whether a game is toxic or not is its design and the moderation of the devs. HotS nails the design - no net-zero resources that one player loses out on when another takes them, many systems to encourage and reward teamplay, faster more casual matches to discourage inordinate investment in a given match. There are absolutely prosocial and antisocial mechanics. I'm yet to see a company really nail the moderation, but Riot is particularly bad about this. Sure, community isn't entirely up to the devs, but there are people raging and ruining games in League today that have been at it for years. Decades. If you IP and account ban somebody every third time they run it down mid, guess what - there are going to be fewer people running it down mid in your community. Same with slurs and severe toxicity. Whether you allow toxic behavior from content creators with large platforms. The Devs are the largest influence on what a game's community is. Iirc HotS was decent at this back in the day, very liberal with nonpermanent player mutes for simple toxicity. Riot has always preferred symbolic gestures to actually putting any effort into moderation. An announcement or devlog about toxicity, something something antibullying PDA, *removing all chat.* God, removing all chat might be thing I disagree with you most about. My experience with enemy teams was overwhelmingly positive, probably 5 or 6 actively positive experiences for every negative one. For every jerk flaming me to trying and tilt me, there were 3 where some asshole on my team is raging at my in all chat and the entire enemy team starts roasting him for sucking and being an idiot. The only times I've ever seen all 9 players dogpile one dude is when they are 1) extremely bad 2.) extremely belligerent and 3.) taking it out on someone innocent. If riot really wanted to reduce toxicity (and still wasn't willing to put any money into moderation) they'd eliminate team chat and replace pings with timelocked, prescripted requests for ganks / objective votes / tactical callouts. I'm serious. It would make their game better. EDIT: Oh, and maybe don't put solo players in with large parties. The worse experiences I've ever had gaming, uninstall-the-game-after-the-match tilting experiences were all with large parties on my team that were dogpiling me as a group. Across multiple games, that stands out as a constant. It's not fun for anybody, don't put it in your game. Either you're queueing as 3 and getting matched with a pair or you're queueing as a full team. Go make a fifth friend. Worth noting that there are multiple games I remember where this started happening and the enemy team chimed in over all chat to tell the party of bullies that they were the reason their team was losing and I was doing fine. I will go to BAT for all chat.

[@Afterthoughts]

Oh dang, thanks for taking the time to type all this out! Haha. Yeah I agree that the game companies are the SOURCE and they’re the only agent that CAN moderate the community… It’s aggravating whenever Riot makes some toothless statement semi-indicating that they hold the players primarily responsible. Something I’m excited to talk more about in a future video is that the game company also sets the tone for how players should feel about what they’re doing. Riot has helped cultivate a SERIOUS SPORTS SO SERIOUS YOU GUYS image around the game, and HOTS might’ve gone that route had the game caught on. Buuut, one small indicator of the tone difference, IMO, can be seen in the simple way the characters react to the start of the game. They all go “woohooo!!!” in unison. That feels like such a small way to set everyone off on the note of “alright y’all this ain’t that important.”

[@Indietrix]

Excited in a British way which means i will watch post-prem 🎉🎉🎉

[@HeavyEyed]

Discord lightmode is WILD

[@Afterthoughts]

You out here just roasting my choices

[@KulFox]

So my honest fave part of this video is at 25:30 where the bg clips shows the team chat saying “we got this” repeatedly and then it jumps to I think the team beating a hard thing (I don’t play these games I’m sorry) and the chat goes “so we got this!” And it’s just so positive and heartwarming in the middle of a vid about toxicity I really love it

[@Afterthoughts]

Moments like that make it worth it to keep playing xD

[@malevolentmoose]

Disabling all chat has single-handedly improved my experience with Rocket League from "I hate these morons" to "ooof this game's hard".

[@lilyofluck371]

Your doggo is so cute >w

[@Afterthoughts]

He says thank you!! haha

[@SwordsmanOrion]

I want to go back to the 90s before the internet when I still had the delusion that I was good at video games because I could beat my 3 friends.

[@Afterthoughts]

Where we settled everything over a game of SSB Melee on my friend's couch

[@If-loki-was-a-fox]

I wasn't expecting compersion to come up in this context, but it makes so much sense

[@asia_crasia]

tbh I find it so weird how toxicity has evolved over the course of online games. early on, toxicity used to be the worst it's EVER been but it also was mainly done for fun because online chat in games was so new?? People were throwing slurs around in CoD lobbies all the time but it usually was taken with some level of levity that wouldnt actually ruin the lobby, it was just sort of funny that some guys in your lobby were sayign a bunch of shit lol. but now you BARELY hear a mic unless its like a genuine level of seethe and deflecting responsibility and people get genuinely so tilted. I just had a guy the other day that instantly threw our match because of my character choice and then harass me in the voice channel. It was just annoying..idk I feel like toxicity in old games used to just be entertaining..? but now it's just frustrating and annoying if that makes sense because its such genuine toxicity

[@xenmaster2203]

Its weird. Skype, xbox party chat, and other chatting clients didn’t really kill mics in lobbies. But for some reason, right once discord came out basically everyone decided lobbies were just too toxic and stopped participating. Honestly, I never really understood why.

[@heissenbadger]

see your bike gets stolen, but that just means someone else now has a new bike and they are happy about it

[@emma_tm]

your comedic timing is on point, especially with the "is that a gnome?" joke

[@chaycollins]

Standing up after watching this video: "Awesome! I did not hate that!"

[@Afterthoughts]

Haha! Hooray! :)

[@kikikrazed]

the fact that you made a spreadsheet is Peak Afterthoughts. the amount of effort you put into this video is astounding! it's interesting that toxicity wasn't as common as you expected. it reminds me of how a negative youtube comment in a sea of positive comments can derail your whole mood lol. also, mindfulness is so important! my senior year of college, i took a course that was literally just about teaching mindfulness to students who were planning careers in digital media. soooo helpful. being aware of your own thought process/reaction to things (especially stressful things) is really crucial, and we often forget that it's a skill we have to actively develop

[@Duckamoly]

Games definitely can't remove toxicity, but we can definitely make games that promote less toxicity. Very interesting watch!

[@jayleeschmidt]

Complementing your opponents for defeating you is a such a strong way to fight your tilt and even improve on your own play. Since you are complementing you are actively reflecting him, making it easier to reflect what you should have tried instead. However, to everyone to is too affected by a game - please consider to take a break. Maybe for days, weeks or however it takes to loosen the bound you have towards the game a little. It's so refreshing to come back again, feel familiar and just focus on the positives again

[@justhaku9240]

"I dont think gamers are worse, i think games make us worse" thats 100% a massive part of it, people who only play mobas, or shooters, or battle royales by design leads to anger for a lot of people. It IS entirely possible to cultivate a healthy and friendly community with enough work from the players and the type of game it is, example final fantasy 14 does not have hardcore PVP its a MMO and the community is some of the best, most welcoming, friendly and all around awesome people I've ever had an experience with online, I know you already said as much but theres my 2 cents. Fantastic video n looking forward to more, cheers 😊

[@Afterthoughts]

I've heard a lot of love for FF14! :) (from this video and others.) Sounds like they have a great thing going over there!

[@Smedium]

I've had a similar experience with Warframe. Basically the whole game is co-op and pvp is fully dead. Also, the in-game tutorials are... lacking, which leads the community to be very used to asking and answering each other's questions.

[@justhaku9240]

@@Smedium Absolutely, you'd cringe if you saw my warframe hours and that community is also awesome for the most part

[@Bobothefish13]

So FF14 definitely does have a notable PvP scene. I actually help run an over 800 member discord server dedicated to team play. One of the reasons I watched this video was to think of toxicity with our corner of the community and work on it. I do think the topics in this video are applicable to why FF feels good in relation even to other MMOs. Just in the story there is an emphasis on collaboration and creative problem solving as opposed to “kill 10 things that look different than you” Still I definitely want to show lots of people this video so we can at least critically analyze the topic of toxicity more as players.

[@jackatk]

Once I asked for help getting good at a game on the game’s subreddit, and they told me that I _don’t take it seriously enough_ and that I need to _dedicate hundreds of hours_ before I could actually be considered “good.” :| There’s no better way to chase away new players than that lol

[@zaidlacksalastname4905]

I dont play onlune games often. However, I sometimes play Halo Infinite and Fortnite with friends, and what helps me stay engaged and entertained is setting my own goals. For example, in Slayer or Team Rumble (team deathmatch modes where you get kills to win), I set a goal of ten kills to do "my part". That way, I'm constantly working towards a goal regardless of whether we're winning or losing, and its a fun goal to chase. Additionally, I dont mind the other team winning when theyre better than us. The other day i found a guy who got 30 kills (out of the 50 kills his 5-person-team needed) and I was so impressed i was rooting for him.

[@Afterthoughts]

Haha! Yeah I love that mindset :) I'm glad that works for you!

[@CiromBreeze]

I do wonder if a certain game about rocks and stones will appear in this video...

[@Afterthoughts]

If by rocks and stones you mean cars and soccer balls then yes

[@tbotalpha8133]

ROCK AND STONE

[@fluffycat679]

At 42:48 it does in the chat, if only through my embarrassing story of dying three times attempting to reach some ore instead of just laser pointering for help. IF YOU DON'T ROCK AND STONE YOU AIN'T COMING HOME

[@BunnyOnASnuman]

36:20 "warning signs" buddy that's one giant radioactive sign

[@PixelLit]

Eyyyy it's a Sam vidyeo and it's a good one! Honestly I'm really happy to see this come to fruition and get a good response. Proud of you!

[@Afterthoughts]

Thank you SO MUCH for helping out with this video!!! You and Josh really helped me push through and get this guy done. Oh, and the gnome voice is immaculate :P

[@flamingscar5263]

what helped massively for me was changing my goal, it was no longer "get as many kills as possible and then win" it was "fuck around and have fun" for example, me and my friend play a modded Fortnite client called Era that lets you play old seasons, currently season 5, and for like 3 hours we would land Tilted Towers, loot till we got a port a fortress (an item that instantly makes a big fort), throw it on top of the tallest tower and defend that fort until either the storm forced us out or someone killed us, not only did we have a blast be we ironically went on a long win streak, but that was never the goal, the goal was ALWAYS to get a port a fortress and become the kings of Tilted Towers defending out castle, so much so that we even started joking when we didnt get a port a fortress but other great loot wed say things like "I DONT WANT THE GOLD SCAR GAME, GIVE ME THE PORT A FORTRESS" that was our 1 goal it was this mindset change that made me no longer toxic and not care about toxicity, sure I still get frustrated, who doesn't, but that doesn't become toxicity, changing the goal from "perform as good as possible" to "do dumb fun shit" and I apply this to all games now, if I'm playing TF2 I don't sweat for the win, since I main hybrid knight (you'd have to play TF2 to understand what that means) I can launch myself around the map with trimping, so what my games end up as is flying into the enemy team at mach 5 and kill as many as possible, even if that means killing 2 people and instantly dying, I think what helped is playing of all games Elden Ring, as my fist souls like game it taught me a good lesson, dying is not failure, its a part of playing the game, that made death go from frustrating to just part of playing, you WILL die, so why let that upset you, death is as inevitable in games as it is in real life, so getting mad when it happens is dumb

[@DanielleWasDelayed]

I literally threw my arms in the air and let out a cheer when you said that you went to help the Tychus! (36:21) That's the good shit! If the chain is only as strong as the weakest link, your goal should be to support that link and make it stronger, not taunt it and make it weaker. I cannot put into words how validating that part of this video was. One of the things that I pride myself on is how many times I've been able to salvage games with toxic or frustrated teammates. My go-to is "insulting someone isn't going to make them play better" because uhh.. yeah, tilting your teammates is going to make you more likely to lose, not win, and Winning is usually the thing these folk care about. Taking a breath, adjusting to your team when they don't want to adjust themselves, and being kind, has literally won me dozens upon dozens of games. I don't know the exact number but in one particular season of Ranked in Overwatch 2, I encountered a double digits amount of players who ended up apologizing for being mean in a match that we now won since we mentally and emotionally regrouped! It felt phenomenal!

[@Afterthoughts]

Yes!!!! I think people just forget to look at it from the perspective of the other person, or even from the perspective of "how do I want this game to go." We just get so in our own feelings lol

[@sketchysketchu]

this is a really nuanced look at the problem, much more than i generally see when the topic is brought up.

[@approachingetterath9959]

this was a really nice, uplifting video. hearing about your journey to betterment (to which i congratulate you) is something i think a lot of people need to hear of. i myself am not a toxic player, so while i get a bit tilted sometimes i just keep it to myself and soldier on, maybe take a break after the game concludes. so long as i/we am/are not getting stomped i can enjoy losing games as well. however, i am someone who takes chat toxicity like glass takes a brick, mostly because i am always harsh on myself. i used to not be able to play LoL solo because my resolve and self-esteem were so fragile, which was crushing because i genuinely like the game and characters and lore. nowadays i'm not a more put together league player because i focused on my relationship with the game, but because i focused on my relationship with myself (cheesy as it may sound). i am better off overall and i am now gradually managing to apply my improvements onto other areas (like scary competitive games).

[@Knopey]

Every single second of this video is perfect 👌 It is reflective, it is informative, it is entertaining and it should be on every school's syllabus by 2025! And extra props for the SOAD Toxicity drum part.

[@sarahames7250]

My favourite online experience was in Guns of Icarus, it was late at night, our final game and we got paired with 2 fairly drunk team members. We always wanted to win but those 2 changed the focus of the game from winning to having fun. Almost immediately the Captain started singing Sea Shanties over the mic with his friend joining in after. The whole match was accompanied by these two just having fun in a competitive match. We still tried to win but us having fun was no longer contingent on us winning. And now all I remember about that night is the fun that we had and not if we won or not because we did win in our own way. We wanted to have fun and we did. Now years later im rediscovering what it means to have fun during games and i constantly remember that night as one of the most engaging and fulfilling game nights. I only hope that I can create that type of environment when I play multiplayer games. ❤

[@StonetheDestroyer42]

I drink a lot of hot tea, and the water boiling sound effect kept making me wonder if I was boiling water and forgot about it. 😅

[@Afterthoughts]

Oh gosh, lol. Hopefully that didn't actually happen :)

[@StonetheDestroyer42]

@@AfterthoughtsNo, but I did make myself some tea afterward. The seed was planted. It was delicious.

[@NeverduskX]

A bit off-topic, but that random clip of Vainglory at 6:58 made me feel really nostalgic. Most enjoyable MOBA I'd played, back when it was just 3v3. And also alive.

[@tlanca]

Awesome linking to compersion. Funny enough, I think it is only a word you understand if you've felt it, but its also a feeling that you can forget easily when away from it. (least my current experience). Definitely an amazing feeling to have though. Awesome Video. Well put together (editing/drawings) and great analysis of the data you collected and great assertions too. I'm super glad it helped you and I bet it will help lots of people watching it. Knowing their is a problem is the first step (ear-marking yourself when it happens), and you gave us all a path for the next few steps too.

[@MetalLegacy34]

Toxic mentality is more of a struggle for me in single player games rather than multiplayer ones. Playing with others makes it easy for me to dismiss setbacks as “they’re really good” or “always another match”. In single player games, it’s a lot harder for me to “excuse” failure. There’s no other people involved, so the failure has to be my own fault. We’re often our own worst critics, but sometimes we need to treat ourselves like that teammate on the verge of tilting. Give your own self that same support and camaraderie you’d extend to others

[@bubbles0904]

I also get this in single player games but only when my friends watch

[@Kentanyl]

Dying to bots hurts lol

[@annenoose6444]

The answer is quite simple, just like how world peace can be achieved by us getting along. All be have to do is not ve toxic, thats the answer but getting people do that, now thats complicated.

[@HRZN_YT]

I always thought "Getting tilted" was a reference to pinball machines. Like, when people would get angry and tilt the machine to get the ball to go where they wanted to. Usually they had a "Tilt sensor" that would lock the game after that.

[@DrawciaGleam02]

Yeah, pinball is where I heard the term too!

[@stevenscarbrough5588]

I completely agree with being the better person and showing kindness in toxic situations. I know it can be tough sometimes to do because of how some a-hole night react. But someone else might be having a bad day and your kindness may just make their day a little bit better.

[@cameton_youtube]

This was really well done! I especially liked the point about setting intentions

[@Afterthoughts]

FYI, there's an audio skip at 23:43. There used to be an 11-second clip of a touchdown during which I say, "And all sports are 'just a game.' And they're not. Right ok, so how'd I fix myself?" The NFL copyright claimed that 11-second segment of my 47-minute video (0.4% of the entire video) and were going to claim all future revenue. So, sorry, because of KZbin's horribly broken copyright system, enjoy a worse version of the video I spent 3 months making. Also, if you enjoy the videos I make, consider kicking me a few bucks on Patreon or Ko-Fi. $2 is more than I make from 1000 views on KZbin. It helps so much when my viewers are willing to support my work, especially when assholes like the folks at the NFL try to claim every cent they can pretend is theirs. (I'm really frustrated, haha. Thanks for reading. I love doing this, but man, it sucks sometimes.)

[@BearWithAFez]

(12:05) While we don't have horses, you do get homeguard on death (which gives a small boost to speed). It's not ideal but the devs are showing that the "walk to lane" is indeed an issue to fix😂

[@Genashi1991]

43:06 Don't remember the specifics but once I said something along the lines of "my bad" in a game only to have someone say something like "yeah, it WAS your fault" and it made me feel extra bad and completely discouraged me from saying that in the future since it seemed like that just gives someone an opening to attack me. And yeah, I'll admit, I'm kind of fragile, I can't help it.

[@sorry_i_missclicked]

Just as always, another amazing vid! I’ve never played many MOBA or multiplayer games (singleplayers like rougelikes and metroidvanias are more my style) but this video was super insightful, and I think some of the strategies you recommended here could work for those type of games as well. For example, if I’m playing something like Hades or Dead Cells (both notoriously difficult rougelikes), and my main goal going into a run is that no matter what I enjoy the time I spend, I would probably do better, and be more likely to try again. I also think that keeping a journal or something like that could be a cool idea with some of those really repetitive games. You’ll get better the more you practice, and that’s super rewarding to see that kind of progress. I really enjoyed this video and I can’t wait for the next one! 💜

[@CaptainAstronaut]

Really Great Video!!! (Also your doggy is very cute!)

[@Afterthoughts]

Hey, thank you! :D (From me and the dog, lol)

[@BubblyBanjax]

I'm a year late here but you are fucking awesome for this! What you did was amazing and then you made a video to share the experience and insight which is even more amazing. Thank you

[@rubykr]

Great video. Thanks for taking the time to make it. I look forward to the next!

[@demon_prince_calc]

Approaching games with the goal of improving and not the goal of winning, has helped me quite a bit. 1 I am less toxic to randoms 2 When someone is toxic towards me I can either flame back to have fun or just shrugg it of 3 I actually see improvements in my gameplay when i get shit talked, no clue why but every time someone tells me im doing bad i just overperform.

[@dilpicklz5835]

i love blue buff mohawk man that tippy taps his laptop to play

[@trevzy91]

Good video! Reminded me of the season I played the most league and actively communicated positively, I think I won a few more games that season. However now I just played with all muted because engaging was punished in league more than it was worth when I'm just trying to enjoy the game. In league it feels like engaging just empowers the trolls. I have played HOTS some with my brother over the years and it was consistently a better experience. I think a lot of that goes back to how much more important individual power levels are in league, a single player can take over, whereas HOTS has more team diffuse power. First video of yours I've come across, glad to have seen it! The Rimworld music at the end is really calming too :)

[@RarelyAChump]

This is actually such a good video! Do you think having a "was this game toxic?" Button at the end of each match (with no prize/penalty regardless of the answer) be useful? Then at the end of each week they'd put up an infographic on the login screen or something. It might replicate the benefits you got, even just to a small extent would be helpful

[@apiboyn]

Hiii! Firstly, thanks for the video. It really came up to me at the right time. I wanted to mention several things. First. I started with Hots and then my classmates invited me to LoL and I participated. And I've noticed that I feel the huge amount of pressure even from a loading screen(I've started noticing it after I started playing on my own) - like when that music on character selection screen kicks - I was starting to shake and expect to be burnt by the enemy team - their flanks, their jungle come out, their sitting in a bush waiting for me to come out. What I'm saying is you're not wrong about game systems being toxic at their core. Its very very true! Like it's funny how Riot tries to fix toxicity in their game by doing all these announcements of statistics, inspirational messages or bans but not fixing the actual game. Hots is a much more relaxing exp. As you've mentioned, it doesn't praise the first blood and all of the above. But it's also... simpler. I mean, yeah, they've Abathur and all but Lol is a much harder game mechanically - you have to know what items to pick (and if you don't do that properly - everyone will start noticing and pinning you for that), what runes to have (same thing), how to jungle, how to freeze lanes, when to help your teammates and when you have to focus on the tower defense, etc. Etc. While in hots you just focus on the obj and participate in team fights. There are vary rare reasons for you to not join your team and acting on your own. The game itself doesn't praise you for being a lone wolf (the game has no gold and your team has an EQUAL exp for the WHOLE team which is... genius) It's so sad that the game isn't being supported cause it had a lot of good decisions from a start. It has several maps and much better graphics too - you don't have to buy skins there to not puke from your character looking (or from their voice lines. Seriously, I never muted the game sounds in hots when in lol they were too distracting for me). So yeah, sry for such a long take but I just wanted to share how much I agree with you. You might be the only one who gets my feelings since most of my friends don't take hots seriously. Now I know how to describe my feelings to them :D

[@ZombieApocalypse09]

Great video! It's so interesting to me how team games both add a layer of frustration but also a layer of protection from the worst bits of that frustration. When losing feels like personal failure, having a team there to displace blame onto so one doesn't have to feel the full force of it is kind of a relief. If you play a 1v1 game like a fighting game or a more traditional RTS like SC2 or that classic MOBA: Chess... there's no one else to blame for the loss. And perhaps worse your anger has no where to go but inward because there's not even anyone really to listen to it. I think that is what makes team PvP (and let's be honest even some PvE) games such a magnet for toxicity. I think Afterthoughts video hits the nail on the head on what we can reasonably do to improve our own experiences: Seek games with mechanics that incentivize cooperation, make sure we're not being toxic ourselves, report the worst offenders. But I do think one thing that can be done that I haven't seen done since the early days of WoW is random human moderation by the game devs. If it's possible for someone holding the banhammer to be watching any game, it definitely helps give people that moment to think twice before raging.

[@tbotalpha8133]

It is absolutely a game design issue. Multiplayer games put players into power-dynamics with other players. Sometimes a player is in a position of strength over another, sometimes they're in a position of weakness. Sometimes these positions can shift wildly, and repeatedly. And sometimes the positions are static, either literally or practically. And sometimes the strong get stronger, and the weak get weaker, in a vicious cycle. These dynamics can also spread laterally, between team-mates. Players on a team can assist and obstruct each other in all sorts of ways. They can cooperate to fight the same enemy, or share resources, or give each other buffs. Or they can go off alone, waste resources and refuse to help their team-mates. Players on a team hold so much power over each others' fun within the game. But all of these positions of strength and weakness were created by the designers. They created the multiplayer framework in which all of this conflict and drama is playing out. They created the mechanisms by which players can interact with each other. And they could have made them differently. Multiplayer game design doesn't just require a sense for how game mechanics interact. It also requires an understanding of how game mechanics influence the experiences of players.

[@LamunesADV]

I went through something similar (I was on the other side, actually) when I was into LoL, around Season 7. I played with a group of real-life friends and they were incredibly toxic about the game. I never cared too much and only played with them because... well... they were my friends, and obviously, nothing bad would happen, right?? RIGHT?... Well... I'm a person with this mentality of "A game need to be fun, If a game is not fun... why play it?". I remember getting extremely pissed off when they started arguing with me about the game. That did not happened very often, but it did happen before. I just ignored and continued to play as normal (P.S.: I was the highest-ranked player among them and had the most game knowledge. I was low Diamond and my friends were Gold 3 or lower). We had a really ugly fight one day when they started talking trash to me on a day I was not having a very good week and I let my anger slip. We're still friends; I hung out with one of them just last week. But I never played anything with them ever again. It was too stressful to play with people that change themselves that hardly in a game.

[@Fareeha]

This is such a comprehensive and thoughtful analysis, I found myself relating to many of your points even though I’m not a MOBA player. Thank you for this gem!

[@thijsvos1852]

This video is amazing! I hope that everyone who watches this will remember the message and continue games with a fresh mindset. Looking forward to your next project!

[@Afterthoughts]

Thank you!!! :) I'm glad you liked it!

[@netbat]

She’s using the trackpad and the mouse at the same time, she’s too powerful to be left alive

[@lilyofluck371]

40:52 INNUENDO STUDIOS!!??? Girl, u really _are_ my favorite KZbinr now

[@Afterthoughts]

If I don't quote him at least once a day, it was a bad day xD

[@Novur]

I used to play a lot of Echo Arena, and my whole perspective changed when I started hyping up strangers instead of being dismissive. Getting dunked on sucks, but it sucks less when you can see someone do something cool, and just gas them up for it, REGARDLESS of which team they were. Someone making a wild score from across the whole court used to get a whole bunch of "lucky shot you still suck" type of responses, but loudly freaking out over it and getting the whole arena psyched about it always lead to a better game

[@ironleegaming8227]

All of my LoL emotes are either congratulatory for my team, to flex on the opponent after a kill, or to poke fun at myself when I make a mistake. I have everyone muted every game, so I don't know how they're reacting, I just pretend they are having as much fun as me.

[@ThousandSunny94]

awesome video... gonna start to track some data for my own games as well now :D

[@Afterthoughts]

I'd be curious to know what you find!

[@KorantinM]

Its just a game, can be worded better, the just in the line just destroys the intention of those who mean well. Maybe something like "remember, its a game" would come over a lot less downplaying and focusses more on the fun parts of games. Its just a game just has an implicit negativity to it, at least for me.

[@Afterthoughts]

The word "just" does do a lot in that sentence for sure

[@sambeckettcat]

I do agree with this video Though I do think there is a fourth leg which is? like, society, or our upbringing. We’re kinda taught from very early on that doing something poorly is to be ashamed of. We’re not taught to learn from our failures, we’re taught “you get an F, teacher is ashamed, parents are ashamed” and to feel guilty. This can lead to not only feeling guilty yourself if you play poorly, which can make you frustrated, but it can also make the other players feel compelled to heap shame on you as well which just adds to the frustration. So yeah, working on ourselves is a big part of how we can make games less toxic, but if we want other players to be less toxic we gotta change society.

[@Afterthoughts]

The toxicity quadrilateral! Yeah, I agree that the way we conceptualize failure is a huge problem here! If you're not WINNING then what's even the POINT? I think there was some shame I felt after losing 4 games in a row, and I can't imagine that originated within myself.

[@ashermacdonald6823]

love the art you used of the people playing the game, and the guy with the mo hawk is playing league on a ds, truly legendary (this is not sarcastic, genuinely found it funny)

[@17388]

i will set my intention to make any peaceful friendly game as toxic as possible.

[@DartictheuniC]

I was a veeeery toxic player back in league season 1/2/3. I was like 13 at the time and even made a fist hole in the wall of my parent’s house. But then I made a group of friends online, we used to play custom 5v5 together, and there was that one guy that would always flame, and another one that was objectively better than us that always kept his cool. Forged me into understanding that me raging lead to nothing but put my team down, and now I hardly even get upset, even playing soulslikes and whatnot. I still have gamerTM moments on times I get really unlucky but I never blame anyone or let it get to me. Ura you were the real mvp of my childhood and made me enjoy a lot of things I would have broke a controller on and move on. Tl dr: try not raging and understanding you play with human beings, won’t save you from toxicity but will keep your mental sanity

[@Afterthoughts]

I’m glad you had the same positive trajectory as me! This is what makes me feel optimistic… It’s easy to forget that people in the screen are other humans who might be less far on their personal journey. Not all, but some, I hope, will follow the same paths as us, haha

[@kotlolish]

My best way to lower toxicity is to not confront the toxic player. That just breeds your own toxicity. Just say: "I understand you having a bad day, but together we can do this." Does this work...? Not always. But in some cases we pull a win and I get to hear: "Thanks for being a nice person." or "Thanks for pulling me through." And while this is more RARE... its these games you treasure more then then multiplue moments of: "Yea they were ungrateful!"

[@dimondsi]

Watching this video, my whole life of league of legends comes rushing back to me. I still play it to this day since I started 12 or so years ago. And for a very good part of my life, it was my social crutch, I had no friends in real life, so dealing with people in the game for short stretches of time. Heck, when I began I treated it as a single player game. I'd go into 5v5 bot games and roleplay the character I was playing at the time. It did a real number on me to be raised through my teens on league of legends. At such a young age, to be told that my value was in being able to blow up the enemy as zed when he was first released, or pull of in insec on lee when I was still learning how not to die to jungle camps. These things become personal to you really fast when it's the only value you place in yourself. And I let that toxicity take over Looking back now, and even today, it's so hard not to be toxic. I'm naturally competitive with a huge inferiority complex I'm still trying to put down. I've put at least 6 to 7 thousand hours into this game. Surely I should be amazing when I play? Not really to be honest. I think this video is extremely important. These are games, to be enjoyed. The games I prefer are the ones with fun people who make things happen, good or bad. We chat, we pat each others back, and everythings okay after we lose, even if we gave it our all and played our hearts out. And for every single person who trys to take the toxic out of themselves, the game as a whole get a little bit better. Imagine what happens if a lot of people stop being toxic?

[@thegouge4284]

My video game mental health journey has been an interesting one. I transitioned from LoL to fighting games. A genre where you have JUST as fierce competition, but no team to blame your losses on. Typically when people lose in a fighting game, they instead direct their anger at the other two pillars of toxicity: "their character is busted, mine sucks, their connection was laggy" etc. Me being the person I am, I directed all my toxicity to myself (I did that in League too, made the game completely unplayable) I've slowly been learning that competitive games (Fighting games especially) are less about the individual wins and losses, but rather about slow, non-linear, incremental growth. And I think that big picture perspective really helps with toxicity (especially self-toxicity). I'm still really self toxic, and I'm still pretty shit at fighting games, but I'm learning how to do better at both over time!

[@TheMurtdragon]

After my friends and I stopped playing League, I got into Splatoon 2, which lacks voice chat, text chat and and only has 2 pings (This way and booyah) for communication options (though the community still found the teabagging-esque squidbag taunt), I think the biggest thing for me that matches are no more than 3 minutes for turf war and 5 minutes for the ranked modes, so if you get someone feeding/throwing/not contributing/whatever other reason you don't want to be playing with etc, then its done in max 5 minutes (usually less) instead of devoting 45 minutes of my life to a league match where one teamfight (probably one bad decision in the heat of a teamfight) results in a loss.

[@Afterthoughts]

Yeeepppp Heroes games being 50% the length of League games is a big contributor toward just committing to a bad game. 3-5 minutes sounds sooo short (to me)! But I'm sure if I played Splatoon if would make sense :P

[@stevethepocket]

My favorite example of what a game can potentially do to defuse hostile situations is the automatic taunt lines in _Team Fortress 2._ As of the first round of class updates, upon getting a domination (an unbroken streak of three kills against a certain opponent) or revenge (killing an opponent who is dominating you), both parties will hear the victor taunt their victim in a way that's funny, in character, and specific to the character the victim is playing as. I feel like it's hard to want to trash-talk in a game when your character is already doing the trash talking for you and is wittier than you could ever be-and the lines are funny enough that (unless you're hearing it for the hundredth time) even the person on the receiving end can't help but laugh too, because it's not really even them they're making fun of.

[@12DAMDO]

"i used to be a toxic league of legends player" implying there are non-toxic league of legend players?

[@GrumpySylveon]

If someone tea bags me once in smash, it’s a missimput. If they do it after a clean kill, it’s personal. If they set the joy stick to nuclear I don’t feel bad for going apeshit on them later.

[@Afterthoughts]

LMAO

[@Afterthoughts]

Sounds reasonable to me

[@RR-hl6zi]

Don't worry, you will never be as toxic as Tony Robbins.

[@Afterthoughts]

oh thank god

[@andrewLoz]

14:45 Me to my friends after the sleep over officially begins

[@Bradafer]

Such a fantastic video! Super great work as always. Another fantastic resource for making games less toxic

[@Afterthoughts]

Heyyyy thank you! :D Glad you liked it!

[@dalmationblack]

I don't know if there's a MOBA equivalent of this but in fps games (CSGO mostly) I always make sure to type "ns" (nice shot) whenever I die to some insane play. I think it helps to remind me that sometimes there's nothing you can do; even if you're playing things at the limit of your abilities they'll still just hit a nice shot. It always makes me a bit happy whenever they say thanks in reply, I can't know if they're trying to be toxic but I choose to believe they're just happy they did something cool and someone acknowledged it.

[@dalmationblack]

Unrelated, but one of the strategies I've noticed reduces my tilt the most is that when I keep dying I'll try and ask my teammates if I can go play a different part of the map just so I can be *somewhere else*, and I think that helps me to get out of whatever mindset I'm falling into.