Can you beat Warcraft 3: Reign of Chaos, with just Archers?

Part 4 of my series is released! Archers are good, but the night elf campaign is tougher to compensate. Will I manage to hold back Archimonde with just archers?
I loved this run. This is some of my best cheese yet, it is so delicious.

[@mfromazeroth]

Really interesting challenge and nice strategies Also, the Tyrande and beginning sections of chapter 5 are doable: kzbin.info/www/bejne/bYeqf4KGlrWDq5Y All it takes is a lot of micro, patience and a lack of consideration for one's sanity On the other hand, I was impressed that the last mission worked. Nice video

[@redwings13400]

Wow, gg! Well done dude, well done! You have my respect!

[@mfromazeroth]

@@redwings13400 Thank you so much for the kind words! I can only give that compliment back

[@normlord6357]

''Thank you Warcraft 3...for making the Ancient Protector , a siege unit.'' Actually made me laugh loudly.

[@redwings13400]

:D

[@zes7215]

wrgg

[@hadiarambashir7659]

I have no words that can describe how I feel right now. This was amazing The Tichondrius thing is something I've encountered before, though it'd happen to me before I get to whittle his hp down. I think units typically get teleported to the center of the map specifically, though I haven't tested it out enough times to say for sure Destroying Thrall's base was not the way I'd expected this to go, but knowing what happened made it exciting when I saw the Ancients attack his fortress. I did not expect that would be the strategy here As for Frozen Throne... yeah, I can imagine a ruleset change would be needed. Especially for the final missions in each campaign. Playing through it normally is already difficult enough. With this challenge though... yeah

[@redwings13400]

Thank you so much! I'm so glad you enjoyed it! Destroying Thrall's base isn't how I expected it to go either, but, well... I was desperate, and limitation breeds creativity. I was so close to giving up on this mission, I'm pretty sure beating it normally with just archers is impossible. I'm so glad I figured this out last minute though, it made the video and the run so much better! If I had ended with, 'I turned the difficulty down to normal and beat it', I think that would have been really lame, and I was very close to ending the run on that. And yeah... I've started Frozen Throne now, and Balancing the Scales is the first base mission I'm pretty sure is impossible with this ruleset. I might have to make some exceptions and allow starting units to be used to defend my first gold mine, or something like that. We'll see what I end up doing, but hopefully I can still make an intriguing and exciting run for Frozen Throne!

[@hadiarambashir7659]

@@redwings13400 That's completely fair. I'd known that destroying the allied main buildings would lead to Archimonde building a new base, but I hadn't even considered it could do that. It was very interesting to see that happen in real time, and I loved every bit of it Balancing the Scales huh? Yeah, I can imagine that one being a pain. I'd guess the Royal Guards are the biggest issue, but I can see any of the Naga being a pain for archers, especially in this mission. And this may be a little early to ask this, but would the blood elf archers count as basic units alongside the swordsmen? It's something I thought of some time ago and got curious

[@redwings13400]

@@hadiarambashir7659 The problem with Balancing the Scales is that I don't start with a gold mine, and don't have one that's easy to take without Tyrande and Malfurion's aid. The level literally starts as a defense mission that becomes a base level once they rescue Maiev. That said, if I could get a gold mine somehow, I'm sure I'd run in to those problems you're mentioning too :p Also, I honestly haven't decided yet for what counts in the blood elf run, and have been internally debating this question myself. I don't really have an answer yet! I guess I'll play around with it and we'll see what happens!

[@hadiarambashir7659]

@@redwings13400 RIght. I completely forgot about the start of the mission. Whoops. Yeah, the gold mine is difficult enough to take with Malfurion and Tyrande's help, so I can only imagine how tough it is without that. And then there's the aftermath to think about. Good luck! That's completely fair. Should be interesting to see how that goes. Again, good luck!

[@sergioramirezbelliard493]

Archers & Huntress, Murghul reavers & Snap dragons, Footman/swordsman & Rifleman/archer and Ghoul & Crypt fiends

[@xetanth87]

Good thing Reign of Chaos Ancient Protectors deal Siege Damage. If they did Piercing like in TFT, the last chapter would have been much harder

[@redwings13400]

Yep. I find that so hilarious, that siege damage ancient protectors are what saved me in the end, lol

[@xetanth87]

@@redwings13400 Well, good luck with TFT. Having only piercing is gonna suck

[@Mecha444]

@@redwings13400 hey ballista has a siege damage and then avoid attack any undead base and trees is not a units so trees is just trees

[@Mecha444]

@@xetanth87it’s good to see you comment in this video

[@skl-1371]

Anyone who isn't satisfied with the ancient protector having a siege type damage should think again before speaking. Patch 1.04 -- Ancient Protector hit points increased to 600 from 550. - Ancient Protector armor decreased to 1 from 2. - Ancient Protector minimum range reduced to 0 from 200. - Ancient Protector ranged attack damage reduced to 1d10+44 from 1d13+51. - Ancient Protector damage type changed to pierce from siege. - Ancient Protector splash damage reduced. Mind boggling I know!.

[@redwings13400]

Yep. They eventually changed it to something more sensible, but its still siege damage in the ROC campaign! :D

[@skl-1371]

@@redwings13400 prior to 1.04 it was pierce & the patch number you see in even TFT covers both games, it just later down the line that they stopped updating RoC.

[@billdewall6152]

TFT Human campaign with basic units sounds absolutely brutal. Mission 2 will be hell.

[@redwings13400]

You mean the blood elf campaign with swordsmen/archers, or even worse, only swordsmen? Mission 2 is doable, there's some hilarious cheese there that makes this level trivial. I could see missions 1 and 5 being possible too, since you don't actually need to kill the orc bases, and guard towers should be good enough to defend everything. 3 and 4 are non base levels which would be impossible, then level 6 would be completely impossible too, since even if you somehow got to Mannoroth (and you die well before that point), you couldn't kill him with just basic units. In the end though, I decided to go blood elf only blood elf campaign, because that one is a lot more fun and interesting than basic units only blood elves! I'm in the process of writing the script now! :D

[@levisamom5069]

But compared to Naga royal guards tho? I mean they traumatized GGG enough for him to quit for 6 months and go break some StarCraft 2 speedrun records

[@redwings13400]

@@levisamom5069 The royal guards are so annoying! I learned the hard way that they basically solo a maxed out army of ghouls in the scourge campaign

[@rebellemuria]

Grats on completing the campaign!

[@redwings13400]

Thank you! Hope you've been enjoying the series!

[@stanmeevissen]

This was such a fun run! Great content! Now time to watch all your others

[@redwings13400]

:D thank you so much! I hope you enjoy!

[@dexteradams6515]

That was a very good strat at the end. I think you should be proud of it.

[@redwings13400]

Thank you! I am quite proud of it!

[@SmolShippie]

Holy shish you're insane, that was an awesome ending

[@redwings13400]

Yessss! I’m really proud of myself for figuring that last level out. Definitely one of the best moments in this series. I was so close to giving up before I figured it out!

[@SmolShippie]

@@redwings13400 Reminds me of my attempts with Demon's Souls and whatever Touhou game it was that ended with a nuclear bird girl. Each of these required about a month of work, 1 hour each day in order to fully understand and clear. I find that if a challenge is sufficiently fair but long and requires research it tends to leave strong impressions and memories

[@fraidei2094]

Lol I thought that this campaign was going to be easier because of archers, but then it comes the second mission

[@redwings13400]

I thought so too, Francesco. I thought so too...

[@Persona_Non_Grata99]

good ideas , insane resilience... this is quality content

[@redwings13400]

Thank you so much! Glad you've enjoyed it!

[@demilung]

Never seen that "teleport away your army stuff" either. But holy crap the final mission strat. Nothing personal Thrall.

[@redwings13400]

:D Yeah, I'm so happy I found that strategy on the last mission at the last second. I was so close to giving up here before I figured it out.

[@air1fire]

THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE ghoul.

[@FlinnGaidin]

That strategy at the end was quite unexpected, and worked surprisingly well 👍👍

[@redwings13400]

Thanks! I'm proud of this one, I was so close to giving up before I figured this out!

[@00Eregos00]

Really fun to watch. GJ

[@redwings13400]

Aw, thank you! I'm glad you enjoyed it!

[@Mecha444]

Shandris: archer’s shoot! 15:05 *die* 15:09

[@redwings13400]

Shandris is clearly an archer for the same reason the captain is a footman. You can disagree with me on this, but it's my challenge run and I can do what I want! :P I doubt it mattered much in the end though, it would probably only be very slightly tougher without her.

[@Mecha444]

@@redwings13400 well shandris is my favorites ranger model and she’s not hero and she’s die so shandris is literally die

[@gyidawpont4635]

@@redwings13400haha you have a troubles days

[@Blazieth]

Not gonna lie... I didn't realize the Acolytes in the New Bases had invincibility right from Reign of Chaos' release. When I tried to use a similar cheese in this level in Reforged, I saw the invincibility and thought it was new, because I remember such strategies being discussed before; abusing the unsummoning of the previous base by kneecapping the construction of the new base before it can get operational. Now I don't know what to think!

[@redwings13400]

It’s definitely not a reforged thing, since the copy I was running had nothing to do with reforged, and I’ve never bought reforged. As you can see in this video, the invulnerability makes these base killing strategies harder to accomplish, but it doesn’t make it impossible to accomplish. I’m sure people have beaten the level before in this way, and this level has a ton of different ways to cheese it in general, though I’ve never seen the cheese done exactly the way I did it here.

Good job!

[@redwings13400]

Thank you! Hope you enjoyed the run! :D

[@gyppygirl2021]

Holy crap. The last mission. That strategy. ...I want to try it in a normal run (without restricting myself to just one unit), but I don't have confidence in my ability to get to that point in the first place. XD

[@redwings13400]

Haha. I believe in you! It definitely takes time and practice, but the thing about the campaign is that its the same challenge every time (most of the time anyway). So as soon as you find a path that works, it becomes a lot easier to get back to the same point. Good luck! Also, yes, I was really proud of myself for coming up with this strategy, because while I've seen a lot of ways to cheese this level on youtube, I've never seen anyone else do it in quite the same way I did here. I was legitimately extremely close to giving up on this level, and I'm so glad I found this strat just in time! :D

[@gyppygirl2021]

@@redwings13400 Thanks! I've been meaning to practice the WC3 campaigns more anyway, so this is the motivation I need to get cracking on it! (I'm sorry, Thrall. I only do what I must.)

[@TheBronf]

the biggest problem with WC3 imo is the campaign NPC teams only ever harvest 10 gold worth for only 1 gold in the mine. effectively making the mine last 10x longer making stall tatics worthless.

[@redwings13400]

It’s a design decision. I appreciate the struggle for resources in wc2, and I also think it’s defendable to build a campaign the way they did here. You can’t stall completely but it does mean the level is on less of a timer, which is more friendly to defensive strategies. It’s a bit of a different game that prioritizes building up and attacking when you’re ready. Though the levels often have gimmicks to force you to move in other ways.

[@levisamom5069]

In daughters of the moon...if u can use the balista to destroy the trees just south of the fountain there is a clear cut path to shandris' base without fighting the undead base

[@redwings13400]

Yeah, I'm aware. But that would involve using balistas, which I wasn't allowed to do :)

[@conan2096]

its so annoying that frozen throne broke hyppogryph riders.

[@jacobconley3721]

More please!

[@ragnarmikk7771]

do you know in chapter 2 there is a secret hydralisk behind the trees by first ballista

[@redwings13400]

Yep! Its a really cool easter egg, I love it! I didn't mention it because it wasn't super helpful for this challenge, since accessing it requires ballistae and a hydralisk isn't an archer, but yeah, I love little things like that! :D

[@Mecha444]

How many times to destroy undead base by archer?

[@Mecha444]

Why tyrande basic attack is normal?

[@Weigazod]

I have one question. Why did you target the Haunted Gold Mine?

[@redwings13400]

Partially, it was tunnel vision, I saw undead building, and I was like, 'ok, gotta kill undead building'. But it was also partially because I had nothing else to target before any other buildings were constructed. I definitely tried to switch my targets as soon as something more important was able to be attacked.

[@Weigazod]

@@redwings13400 Also, I am unsure what happened there but heroes in Campaign don't cost Food so the Undead could have trained Acolytes. I think you destroying their initial Necropolis caused a glitch in their AI.

[@redwings13400]

@@Weigazod Ooh, that's also possible! I honestly have no idea! All I know is that if they had trained an acolyte at any point there, I would have died.

[@redwings13400]

Thinking about this question more, if you were wondering why my ancient protectors were all basically hugging the haunted gold mine while the structures were built in other places, that's because of the triggers in this level! As soon as Thrall's fortress is killed, all buildings in an area to the right of the mine are instantly destroyed, which means that any of my ancient protectors stationed there become useless. A big part of getting this trick right on fastest speed was getting a general sense of where the buildings were destroyed, and where they survived, so I tried to put my ancients just outside of this trigger area. Considering there were plenty of orc buildings in the way too, around the gold mine happened to be the spot I could fit the most ancient protectors and keep them in a useful place.

[@Weigazod]

@@redwings13400 Thanks!

[@Mecha444]

How to download this game pls?

[@Mecha444]

I use all archer and magic unit healer sorceress and I use tower and defend my base I left my first base and I move third base again and I use defend again

[@spikegamer5143]

2:58 Cheat enabled!

[@redwings13400]

While I don't use cheats on my final run, I do occasionally cheat to see what I've accomplished or figure out what I need to do. So you will occasionally see me use cheats in these videos for these purposes, to help show you the process I used to figure out a level. However, I never save over any cheats on my actual runs, so I do always complete the levels without using any cheats.

[@adnanaboukewik4950]

16:20 Can't expect to beat a demon who got and was promised power from the dark titan himself to the point where he betrayed his people(argus) to become his ultimate servant and master of the burning legion. Just saying.

[@redwings13400]

Haha. I was pretty desperate and trying everything, lol. If I have one regret about this video, it's that I didn't try to kill archimonde after I destroyed the undead base. I have no idea whether its possible to do so with just archers and protectors, but I had a lot of time to try it and never attempted it once he was alone.

[@adnanaboukewik4950]

Could explore that, but maybe it’s only possible w/ protectors. Most likely impossible given we don’t start w/ Jaina’s base, but I hope it will be. Though not an archer, I wonder if the furbogs from reforged can still rip apart Archimonde in the original, cuz grant did it.

[@Mecha444]

You forgot to use sharpandshiny by daughter of the moons its cheat enabled

[@Mecha444]

Why did you pick item in daughters of the moon you must do with only archers they can’t pick item

[@redwings13400]

Honestly, I probably just wasn't thinking about it. Good catch, I definitely shouldn't have.

[@TheMartinalfa]

I know its kinda late to write anything but hey why not. I am actualy not sure you understood how last mission work. Like yea you have all these scripts from editor etc but you like never mentoined how power of attack waves goes. You have like 30min to hold up with 2 allies and level WAS actualy designed with that in mind. Two things that actualy matter are number of defenders (3 including you) and scaling of enemy power. Jaina and Thrall are basicaly just little assistants but their purpose is to hold that 10-12 mins at least. If i remmember corectly enemy attack wave power have 3 power levels. 1. creeps (standart undead) 2. creeps + heroes 3. creeps + heroes + demons Third PW is like when shit hit a fan and enemy base go override. In editor in mission its even named something funny from creators. That aside attack waves are actualy scale power with time and RESET after taking down your allies. In other worlds. You leaving Jaina die so fast made whole thing not just brutaly harder but like impossible without some cheesing because that 3rd power levels purpose was to "DEFEAT" and "PUSH" Anyway quite fun but i recommend to actualy try it without emptily sacrificing Jaina which should improve things. It should somewhat comes up when you noticed dying at 15min mark which is nonsense.

[@redwings13400]

Awesome comment, thanks for the information! While I've never looked at the level in the editor specifically, I had basically intuited most of the information there :). The problem with not sacrificing Jaina is that I just don't have an army in the early game in that mission (remember, no heroes and barely any starting units), so I don't really have a choice to save her. I definitely could try to rush everything to save Jaina and see if that makes a difference, but I actually just don't think I could save her and still get up a functioning economy with only archers. Even just commanding archers would be really challenging because without the use of starfall and tranquility, the early attack waves are still pretty brutal. So that's definitely an idea, and you're right that I minimized in the video how much losing Jaina early hurts here based on the way the triggers work, I also still just don't have a good way to save Jaina early.

[@namtranhai8456]

You could ignore undead base in second campaign though. By destroying trees and go the bypass on the right.

[@redwings13400]

You aren't the first to comment this, but archers can't destroy trees, so that strategy wouldn't be viable here :)

[@Mecha444]

@@redwings13400 maybe I forgot ballista you can destroy trees while it’s not units

[@kentonbanyai7917]

music too loud

[@redwings13400]

Noted, thanks! I'm definitely struggling with figuring out the right balance here, and have no idea what the sweet spot actually is!

[@kentonbanyai7917]

@@redwings13400 good vids tho. Binged a few today

[@hanyuzhu7276]

Isn't there a way to beat the last mission by moving and hiding your base in the woods? At least that's what I've heard. If you're going to exploit game bugs you might as well do that

[@redwings13400]

Ooh, I have no idea! I'm pretty happy with the way I figured out the last mission in the end, I think it was a pretty dramatic win, and made for an epic conclusion to the saga. Still, I'm definitely intrigued by the idea. This is the first I've heard of this strategy. It sounds promising, though I do have some immediate questions, since I'm not really sure how you'd hide from frost wyrms, and even if you could keep the building alive, archimonde would still reach the gate, right? That said, if you've heard it, then it's probably possible this way too, and I'm intrigued!

[@odo4321]

@@redwings13400 I have done this. So you have to die for the level to end does not matter if the undead get to the gate. for some reason the undead will not check for a building hiding in the forest unless you try to build one there.

[@zes7215]

wrg