Can you make Stainless Steel San Mai Damascus?

Forge welding stainless steel to another piece of stainless steel is definitely possible? Is it possible and is it easy to weld a stainless steel San Mai Damascus knife? How?! Graham Clarke of Clarke Knives talks to us about how he was able to make them successfully and in this knife-making video, we discuss the 3 key points on how to weld stainless steel San Mai together.
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[@hmingthanacolney2974]

304SS jacket and 52100... that's how got kost successful results

[@bradymcphail9690]

Man where have you been sir? I am amazed at how you explain the science behind blade making. I have been a welder & fabricator for 45 years, but 3 years ago had a severe injury with a bad Traumatic Brain Injury and Neck & Back injuries among others because of a negligent Electrical contractor. I’m learning Aton from your videos. I would love to come to the UK and learn in person some day. Do you give classes or big events? Do you ever come to the US to teach?

[@UKBladeshow]

Hi Brady! Thanks for taking to comment! Graham does knife-making & axe-making courses - please check out his website at www.clarkeknives.co.uk Thanks!

[@johnnylightning5633]

I think your Thor in-disguise. Love your your vid and the info is Gandalf rated. Yeah awesome!!

[@UKBladeshow]

Thanks Johnny!

[@viewsandreviews180]

Thank you for this presentation. It was informative for me and in one sentence you told me why my attempts at this hadn’t worked; no more degreasing after grinding.

[@UKBladeshow]

There’s pros and cons on not degreasing after grinding (when just bonding in general) but I suppose if you were forge welding, it makes sense not to clean up the steel dust from grinding.

[@clarkeknives4159]

@@UKBladeshow That's what compressed air was invented for 🤣🤣

[@senimanapi]

for stainless 304, the use of filler is a requirement to unite it with carbon steel

[@RobanyBigjobz]

"Reactive gas" is impressively vague!

[@GemAppleTom]

I was wondering the very same. I assumed it used Chlorine or similar to remove the oxide but I’ve just found out you can use methane in the right mix and at the right temperature. I’m guessing the companies that sell it protect the exact mixtures they produce and don’t reveal what the actual mix is, just calling it ‘reactive gas’. It converts the chrome oxide to chrome carbide which will allow forge welding but I’d have thought at the loss of some corrosion resistance. Source: Anacleto, Nathaniel; Ostrovski, Oleg.  Metallurgical and Materials Transactions: Process Metallurgy and Materials Processing Science, B; New York Vol. 35B, Iss. 4, (Aug 2004): 609-615

[@UKBladeshow]

Very vague indeed mate 😉 but yeah, as you can see it is doable and they do look gorgeous as well!

[@UKBladeshow]

Cheers Tom! That makes sense too, converting the chrome oxide into something that can be forge welded.

[@clarkeknives4159]

Quite deliberately so🤣🤣 I can't give all my trade secrets away!!!

[@clarkeknives4159]

@@GemAppleTom True but I think there is enough Chrome Carbide in the stainless - remember I use Martensitic Stainless for cladding - so I just reduce it to plain old chrome

[@stanislavstrecker7476]

I would love to learn from you. very,very informative. Thank you

[@herreragonza5891]

this videos are so good that I usually give the like while the ads are playing lol

[@UKBladeshow]

Wow that’s very nice of you thanks Herrera 🥳🥳🥳

[@Okrahm]

Using 304 here Wprks fine

[@UKBladeshow]

Thanks for sharing Marko!

[@GemAppleTom]

I’ve been wondering about the centre line cracking that Graham has talked about. Mind me asking what core material and the heat treatment you use?

[@cyrillevogler4065]

"degrease before you grind"... am i degreasing scale? whatever is being degreased will be ground away, i dont see how thats supposed to work

[@UKBladeshow]

Hi. Thanks for the question. Degreasing prior to abrading will ensure you will not abrade-in the contaminants that may be on the surface. This will help ensure a better bond between metals. I hope that helps.

[@Noone-rt6pw]

This needs to put his knowledge in a book. Sounds like he could make the world standard of instructions. Talking about the forging holding the pressure for ling enough for just the right time could be elaborated on, for me, probably others. If he's not up to it, he could always dictate it as here for another record, but it'd benefit, if he'd elaborate more as the pressure, timing for bonding, then all the things he's discovered learned from years of experimenting, trial and error, etc. Understand, it takes a few milliseconds for me to process what he's saying because his accent changes the sound of words some, where I have a little difficulty hearing already, which trying to sort out the words, I miss some of what's being said. So have to replay. Where I have my accent being from the south with remnants of Cajun talk maybe that might affect him if I were talking, no big deal. Yet, if in print, it can be read slow, thought of, absorbed and assimilated. It shouldn't be too much later a electronic device probably will be developed and we could abduct him, place leads on his brains memory area and download to the rest of us, but it's not available yet, so if he'd at least have someone else if he's not up to it transfer his knowledge, especially his learning from trial and error, experimenting, how he made something work, etc., could be saved. It'd be ashame for him to leave this earth with all this knowledge simply lost, where it'd take someone else to come up having to learn all the primary info, then spend years experimenting only to get older before he knows what this man knows. Just putting all he learned that makes his work some of the best, techniques, as well as references to time, pressure, as well as even details as realized by eyesight or feel can be passed on. It's obvious he's smart and really knows his stuff. Which he could make the videos with more elaboration for amateurs. He's probably done a lot of study and could do very good referencing books, manuals, articles that really helped him as well. If he has insights to any sword making as where swords often break in the center length of a blade, said by others, this fellow might have a solution. As maybe layering another alloy in that region of swords. Just think Albert Einstein said something about after WWII, WWIV would be fought with stones. Which we'd still have metallurgy, with this knowledge we could make better swords. Lighter, harder, more ductile and much sharper and holding a superior edge. Which there's hooks made of Vanadium steel by VMC, where they're lighter and stronger. A lighter hook can help more natural Bait presentation. Where a fish hook needs more strength in the gape, area between shank and point to prevent breaking or bending, yield strength. While the point needs to be finer, sharper and harder. So, as VMC does with their hooks using Vanadium, the addition of Niobium is said to enhance yield strength and I think both vanadium and niobium creates smaller grains while enhancing strength as well. Finer grain probably helps a finer, sharper point. Where it is not just knives that are benefitted from this fellows knowledge, outdoorsman also like to delve into making things as baits as well as hooks if they knew a little. Which it'd probably be hard to beat commercially made hooks, where R&D has lead to the high quality hooks mass produced by machines, computer programs that can produce high quality hooks en mass that are top knotch, however any number simply like to do things themselves. Where this guys knowledge would be beneficial here too. He said he's a metallagist? Is that the same as a metallurgist, or is it actually another similar field?

[@GemAppleTom]

Metallurgy is generally pronounced as met-al-ah-gee in the UK. You’ll most likely hear it pronounced met-al-urgh-gee in the US. (I have no idea why the field isn’t known as metallology - too many Ls for, I suppose)

[@rigajykra3159]

I second this. Graham definitely needs to make a book. There is so much valuable knowledge there to be passed on to keep knifemaking advance.

[@Noone-rt6pw]

@@GemAppleTom 😃 😊 😀 😄 😁 tater/potatoe, same thing

[@BergenMotard]

Can't wait to see some stainless damascus. Question ; is it possible to forgeweld titanium with simple carbon steel? (Enclosed air tight). Can it be done with nickel shims between?

[@UKBladeshow]

I don’t know for sure but the example I have shown (on the thumbnail and at the end of the video) sure seems like it

[@GemAppleTom]

The problem with forge welding titanium and steel isn’t so much with oxides like stainless but with how steel and titanium react together. They can form brittle almost-compounds called intermetallics leaving you with a very weak joint. I believe it’s possible to avoid creating those intermetallics but I don’t know the details off the top of my head. (Actually I do - do it really fast while the two pieces are cold aka explosive welding - but I don’t know how you’d do it with normal forging equipment to make a knife) Using nickel shims is the most common way of joining them. Neither steel nor titanium form those intermetallics so you avoid the brittle joint.

[@DTKcustomknives]

Look forward to the future 😉

[@UKBladeshow]

Cheers bud!

[@littlebear1520]

When forging san Mai with stainless and o1 is there any issues with carbide precipitation like you would get in regular welding

[@UKBladeshow]

Hi Little Bear - not entirely sure but I doubt it. I will ask Graham when I speak with him again. - Vinz

[@GemAppleTom]

I’m a bit surprised that Graham got aluminium and steel to solid phase weld. It’s notoriously difficult. The melting points [edit: and thus their normal forging temperatures] are miles apart and they form very inconvenient intermetallics. My time in industry included a spell with friction welding and the attempts at putting them together left massively deformed aluminium, almost untouched steel and a thin, brittle reaction layer barely holding them together. Nowt to do with blade making but I’d still like to hear more…

[@clarkeknives4159]

Hi Tom, This was over 50 yrs ago and it's possible it ended up as a mechanical bond rather than a true solid phase weld. I remember the interface looking like a series of curled top waves and as a student I still knew very little 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣. It was a solid bond though and the comments made with reference to cleaning certainly apply to the current subject.

[@GemAppleTom]

@@clarkeknives4159 Ah that does sound more like some of the pictures of explosive welding I’ve seen - mechanical mixing that looks like waves. Though I’ve not heard it done with metals with such different properties before. But i know how things slip if you don’t use it much. I started with an interest in light metal casting but can’t remember much of it now after falling into heat treatment after I left university.

[@andyc750]

again useful info, especially the grinding and cleaning tip, something to bear in mind for the future, loving all the info from these video's, thanks

[@UKBladeshow]

Cheers Andy! I’d suggest you consider the forging courses near you or better yet, book one at Clarke Knives website! 🥳🥳🥳

[@andyc750]

@@UKBladeshow couldn't do it as to expensive, long story but wrecked my leg and had nearly 4 years without work, mostly it was impossible for me to work, which is why I am now a learning blade smith, went back to what I wanted to learn as a kid and 45+ years later decided it was now or never and as I had the time and no money a home made forge came into being and here we now are, now have a job I can manage 4 days a week though it doesn't pay well it is far better than no work and I am still able to play with my forge etc though the neighbors don't appreciate it lol, sod them as doing nothing illegal as the copper they got onto me said

[@Noone-rt6pw]

Listening to this fellow, alloy wouldn't matter as much as heat treating, quenching skills. 1080/1095 properly quenched, forged too by an expert is probably better than super steels done by an amateur. Where it'd be good if he present material the way he has, but then elaborate on what he's saying as creating crystal growth by pressure etc. This white boy knows his stuff, where if he wrote a book, tell me what it is, if he hasn't someone please tell him he should, at least another book for me.

[@UKBladeshow]

Thanks for your input!