Can You Replace A 2-Prong Outlet With A 3-Prong?

[@1patrickx]

Awesome video Jefferson. Here in Mississippi, Jones County which includes Laurel where there is a show call Home Town; we deal with a lot of NM clothed sheathed cable that has no equipment ground. Many electricians tell the clients to re-wire the house. If the wires are old RHW or Paraflex cable I usually do recommend a re-wire. With these methods there’s a significant chance of active knob and tubing. However; NM cable that have a cloth sheathing with THHN wires or as the one in your home: THHN with a smaller sized EGC, I use this method quite often. I would like to add a few points to your brilliant video. 2020 NFPA70 406.4 (D) Replacements (2)Non-Grounding-Type Receptacles (b) and (c) The method you used was (b) GFCI type receptacle. I would like to point out that when this method is used, ANY RECEPTACLES ON THE LOAD SIDE (DOWNSTREAM) SHOULD NEVER HAVE EQUIPMENT GROUNDING CONDUCTORS. This can create a potentially very dangerous set up. Load side receptacles using this code allowance need to be marked GFCI Protected and NO EQUIPMENT GROUND. That means DO NOT run an equipment ground anywhere in this set up. I have seen people install a GFCI Receptacle and run a EG from there to the load side receptacles. WRONG. NO EQUIPMENT GROUND means no equipment ground. The standard tester will read open ground and CAN NOT be used to test the GFCI protection. If an inspector says that if it can’t be tested that it can’t be used: Tell the inspector this: Test the circuit by pressing the TEST button on the GFCI receptacle. This is the acceptable way that manufacturers of GFCI receptacles allow for testing. IF YOU FIND A GFCI RECEPTACLE THAT TELLS YOU TO USE A TESTER OTHER THAN THE BUILT IN TESTING SYSTEM PLEASE LET ME KNOW ABOUT IT. We must also keep in mind the informational notes. Note 2 directs us to 250.114 for a list of cord and plug connected equipment or appliances that REQUIRE AN EQUIPMENT GROUNDING CONDUCTOR. Which will render this method invalid for those particular items listed in 250.114 And we must also consider 406.4 (D) 4, 5, and 6 as applicable when replacing a receptacle. 4: for Arc Fault 5: for Tamper-Resistant 6: for Weather-Resistant Great video. Just wanted to add a few points of common mistakes I often run across. After reading more comments it amazes me at how many people are confused or lack knowledge and understanding of this method. Joel stated that the EG was lost, there’s comments asking why he didnt use the existing EG. It was lost: these old cloth sheathed NM Cabes that have an EG, have an undersized EG and can often break in the circut or get damaged from a one time fault condition. This is why new NM-B cable carries full size EG on 14AWG, 12AWG, and 10AWG. The EGC serves no direct function in the GFCI Protection circuitry mechanism. The GFCI monitors the current flow and return from the hot (ungrounded) and neutral (grounded Conductor, not EGC). A 4mA to 6mA difference will trip a Class A GFCI Protection Device. AND YES 10mA CAN DAMAGE YOUR HEART AND PUT YOU IN A-FIB. 6mA is close to the Let-Go point and in itself can be very dangerous to the heart in short time frame, and it is even MORE DANGEROUS TO SMALL CHILDREN. The EGC should never carry current in normal situations. The purpose of this code allowance is to provide a reasonable method for replacing a 2-prong receptacle with a 3-prong receptacle. You are trading the equiptment bonding, (which is a more accurate term than eqiptment grounding), with current monitoring. Therefore , when the equipment faults to the the NORMALLY BONDED parts, a loss of current will be detected and cause the GFCI Protection to open the circuit. SO YES THE GFCI WILL WORK WITHOUT AN EG. I realize this may be hard to wrap your head around. It takes a lot of knowledge and understanding in Grounding and Bonding and the fundamental understanding of how a GFCI device works. You have to understand these concepts. If you were called out to perform an equiopotential bonding system for a new inground pool, you would have no idea what to do.

[@darklight8675]

Hello, I just saw your comment and I wanted clarification. I am currently working on an old house where the 3rd floor has no grounding for except 1 outlet. I wanted to install GFCI on one of the room outlets, likely the first outlet in the circuit. The only grounded outlet seems to be somewhere at the end of that same circuit. So if I install a GFCI in the first outlet of the circuit, I would be creating a dangerous situation because of that grounded outlet at the end of that same circuit? Thank you

[@1patrickx]

@@darklight8675 I’m assuming you mean there’s no equipment grounding conductor (EGC) . You can install a Class A GFCI receptacle without an EGC. You use the hot (ungrounded conductor) and the neutral (grounded conductor) . If you know where the first receptacle is, you can install the conductors from the panel to the line side of the GFCI receptacle and the conductors downstream (serving the rest of the circuit ) to the load side of the GFCI receptacle. You will not be able to use a plug in tester to test the GFCI, you will test it by pressing the button on the receptacle. Your other option is to install a GFCI breaker at the panel. You mentioned something about a grounded outlet at the end of the circuit. That sounds like it’s a bootlegged equipment ground, likely taped from the grounded conductor (neutral). It is best to get a licensed electrician to evaluate the situation: Incorrect bonding, grounding, and bootlegged EG’s greatly increases chances of electrical fires, malfunction, and / or lost of life from electrocution. It is very serious and should be only handled by someone that absolutely knows what they are doing. Don’t risk your life, property, and other lives by trying to do advance troubleshooting without proper training and experience.

[@michaeljavert4635]

One after thought about wrapping. I wrap to keep the bare copper ground wires from coming into contact with the terminals. Also it's habit and a good habit. Like using my turn signals. I don't even think about them and use them whether or not someone is around. It's just good practice.

[@bruceboyles1895]

I have a question for you: My house is about 5 years old, it has GFIC & in the bedrooms there AFCI. I had a short in the bed room & the AFCI did not trip but the CB in the panel did. Since it did not trip I assumed it was bad so replaced it w/ a GFCI/ AFCI combo. type. To check it out I took a space portable heater & put the plug just part way into the receptacle as to cause a internal ark. It did not trip the receptacle. What is the point if it does not trip????? Thanks Bruce

[@brentwalker3893]

I am a 35-year electrician. This is, in my opinion, a do not follow video. 1st, there is a ground wire available; therefore, no gfci is required. If there is not a ground available, the lead outlet of the circuit should be put on gfci, and the outlets down the line will be on the load side of the gfci. 2nd, the box is a cut in box, thus making it simple to change to a plastic (mom conductive) box and gives a chance for the short wire to be pulled, not very often does this happen but it's better than a metal box. I didn't see or hear any references to bonding the box. The bare wire ground in romex is by far the biggest overlooked safety issue from the "code enforcers." I mean, why, after all these years, has nobody realized that is the #1 available thing in an outlet box that shorts out? Is that ground actually undersized? #12 hot and neutral, a #14 ground is sufficient. And 3 inches of wire extending from the face of the box is absurd, 6 inches is what I was taught.

[@grandn8646]

The only thing that I notice is that you had excessive amount of bare wire exposed out of the wire clamp on the black wire on the gfci so I would have cut the wire down a little or at least wrapped the outlet with tape.

[@macmorgan6685]

You mentioned the “undersized ground” not connected to the box. Would you connect it to the gfci ground screw? I have a number of 2 prong receptacles that I’ve upgraded to 3 prong. The boxes are metal and all have a undersized ground wire wound around the wire clamp in the box. I’ve pigtailed ground wires and attached them to the ground screw and my tester approves. Is it approved by code?

[@mathman0101]

When putting on the Wago 221 lever nuts always check the transparent side to se the conductor has gone alway to the front tug test is good. Two other things about the Wago it has a wire stripping guide on the side and it has a test port to put your voltmeter test probes. I actually put the labels on all downstream GFCI/AFCI receptacles not just the primary protected receptacle. I actually have GFCI/AFCI receptacles on all my receptacles in the home future proofing against code requirements including the coming 2023 code. The levitons are my favorite GFCI/AFCI receptacle tripe faster 4mS and around 4-5mA that’s the testing I have done they are very predictable and better than most other manufacturers.

[@keithharrington8715]

I would like to thank Joel for the video and, even more, the commenters. Someone mentioned a cover screw requirement I was not able to find. My personal nec review took me to articles like 100, 210, 422.5, 406,.4, 406.6, 314.4, and even 402. Thanks again to all.

[@Pembroke.]

You're fortunate. I live in an old house where there are practically no electrical receptacles or ground wires, simply straight black wires connecting to fixtures nailed into the wood. For a variety of reasons, it has been suggested that I employ wire channels that run along the exterior of the walls. I have a lot of work to do, but at least I'm not pulling cables through the walls.

[@dbernstein7901]

Just a couple suggested corrections to this nice video, in general, the potentially dangerous cardiac current of ~15ma would only apply if it’s delivered intravenously, not via the skin on either side of the heart. The exception being voltages generally above 800v, depending on specific cardiac condition. The other suggestion is simply inserting the wire on one side of the contact screw instead of wrapping it around the screw creating full mechanical and electrical contact is the preferred connection.

[@kenlequack3202]

Per manufacturer instructions, the GFCI test button is the approved way to test, so while a plug tester GFCI test feature won't trip it, the test button on the device will, which is all that is required. (If an inspector gives you crap)

[@p.b.4562]

What about the AFCI protection? I believe a replacement receptacle needs that also in the right area's.

[@BearStar1]

My house was built in May 1986 and ALL of My Electrical Systems is UP to the NEC 2020 CODE !! I'm a Licensed Journeyman Electrician with over 55 years in the Trade !!!

[@chrisobergin3955]

So where did you get the arc fault breakers in 1986?

[@jovetj]

6:29 That's a lot of copper sticking out past that screw terminal. I'd hoped a bit earlier that you would fix that before trying to mount the receptacle.

[@Sparky-ww5re]

With the GFCI requirements extended to the 250 volt receptacles in locations where previously it only applied to the 125 volt receptacles, I'd expect major home improvement stores to soon keep a constant stock of double pole GFCI breakers in various sizes other than the 50 amp, which is very commonly used and required for hottubs and spas. For instance my sister and her boyfriend live in a tract home built in 1995, and needed to replace a two pole 20 amp GFCI breaker that failed, for the kitchen countertop receptacles fed by 12/3 NM with the tabs on the hot side broken to split the receptacles into the two circuits required for kitchens, and none of the hardware or home improvement centers carried that breaker, they had to order it and I believe the boyfriend borrowed the two pole 20 amp breaker for the window AC and swapped it for the kitchen until the proper replacement arrived, which is a safety hazard near the sink.

[@sigcrazy7]

Whole code compliant, folks should realize that the metal box remains unprotected and potentially dangerous without it being grounded. The GFCI will protect anything that is plugged into it, but it cannot prevent a fault at the box, since that is before the GFCI. If your ungrounded conductor were to pull out of the Wago, for example, and contact the metal box, the GFCI would not prevent the box from being energized.

[@okaro6595]

Not only the box. The box is connected to the ground contact and through that to the case of any grounded equipment connected to it. This is a major fault with the GFCI method. If that happens in an outlet chained to the load side then the GFCI would work. To prevent this one would need to pull the groudn pin or do something like that which is a no no. Fortunately in Europe e do not have such problems.

[@brians8664]

He used the incorrect faceplate. Per code if you are replacing a 2-prong outlet with a gfci or the outlet and/or box is not connected to ground you have to use a faceplate with no exposed screws. This prevents the fault you are speaking of hurting a person.

[@richardgray1730]

@@brians8664 This has never come up for me. I scanned code 406 and tried a google search trying to find it. we are required to follow the 2017 code…. so I am guessing must be in the newer codes. if you could point me to where it is in code and the code year i would be grateful

[@keithharrington8715]

@@brians8664 Brian, I have looked in my 2020 nec 406.6 for faceplate and did not see the requirement you spoke of. I think there were two of you mentioning this requirement in the comments. Could you please get me a code section on this one?

[@okaro6595]

@@brians8664 Did you read my comment. The crews is an absolute non-issue as anything connected it it: a fridge, a computer etc. would become energized if the live wire touches the box.

[@MrKen59]

Short of replacing the wire to the box, I wish there was a way to allow a non current carrying grounded conductor to be run separately. Same with light switches that are missing a neutral (found in older homes). I realize this is “not a code compliant” solution, but we as the electrical industry need to find solutions that are practical in old homes while remaining safe. I’m only suggesting this as an opinion should engineers or nfpa read any of this. I appreciate your videos Joel. Thank you.

[@techdave05]

A non-nurrent carrying conductor would be grounding, not grounded. A grounded conductor would be considered a neutral. A ground wire can be ran separately to any accessible portion of the grounding electrode system. I don't have my code book handy, else I would provide a code reference. A grounded conductor (neutral) being a current carrying conductor, will likely never be allowed to be ran separately if you have a cable assembly already there, such as romex.

[@RossReedstrom]

@@techdave05 Thanks for making that distinction, David: grounding vs. grounded. Indeed, the grounding, non-current carrying path in conduit installs is usually the continuous metal conduit, so it makes sense that that is code compliant. Never thought about fishing just green wires around, but sounds like it would in fact be code compliant to do so. Admittedly, it'd be just as much work as rewiring w/ proper cabling, so unless the labor is free, it doesn't make much sense. Might be worth adding it in when fishing low-voltage wiring nearby, since the additional materials cost would be less, and the labor is already there. Biggest problem is that as I read the code, those lines would have to home run all the way back to the panel Would be nice to be allowed to share ground with other closer circuits that were added in later remodeling, that have a proper ground conductor. @LDoctorKC, as to the "missing neutral": of course it's not missing, even though that's how everyone says it: it's present at the fixture. Depending on the exact wiring routing (i.e. if the switch is closer than the fixture, so you've got the extra 3-4 feet to get down/up the wall), I've managed to move the feed from the fixture to the switch, reusing the same switch-leg, a couple times. Had to add a box in the attic to extend the feed the extra distance, once. This is in single-story construction, with attic access to the top plates. Not everyone is so lucky (if working in an attic in Texas is ever to be considered lucky, that is)

[@techdave05]

@@RossReedstrom You can absolutely take a ground wire to a newer circuit and tie it in there, provided it's big enough. Such as, you can't take a 12 awg to a 14awg, but you could take a 14awg to a 12awg. 15a circuit requires a minimum of 14awg, 20a requires a minimum of 12awg. T250.122 in the nec shows the range that each size is good for. The ground has to have a path back to the source, (ultimately the transformer by way of the panel), but each ground doesn't need a homerun back to the panel. You could take a single ground wire from the panel, large enough for the biggest circuit you're going to add a ground, to a central location, install a ground bar then branch out from there.

[@RossReedstrom]

@@techdave05 thanks for the advice! Makes sense.

[@MrKen59]

@@techdave05 thank you - I guess swapping the cable might the only viable solution. Regarding terminology - I’m learning and appreciate the clarification. :). What concerns me is the layperson may just use the ground conductor for the smart switch and that is troubling to me.

[@Nicholas_PA]

⁠​⁠Please help this confusion. Is it safe to use highend electronics with gfci outlets, even though it says. “not for use with equipment”?

[@okaro6595]

Sure it is safe. You just should do all the connections powered down. Like if you connect a PC to a TV that is grounded through the antenna/cable when the PC is on you might fry the inputs on the TV. The obsolete RCA connection is the worst in this as the signal connects before the ground (an idiot design). It is good to get a power strip and connect your devices to it. The power strip levels the ground potential between the devices.

[@nel6211]

If adding 2 GFCI after an outlet do you connect to line of both or load of both?

[@ElectricProAcademy]

To reduce cost & confusion, we'd recommend using standard (non-GFCI) receptacles off the load side of 1 GFCI receptacle. The code specifies that they all be GFCI-protected, not each GFCIs. The standard receptacles will be protected by feeding off the load side of the GFCI unit.

[@AffinityPhoto]

On the short wire, is it against code to try to pull a bit more length through from the backside? I live in a 1960 apartment. They did a renovation a few years ago eh oh updated the kitchen and they upgraded the panel. They went through the whole apartment and added 3-prong outlets with no grounds. I actually measure 40-60VAC between the hot and gnd. ?what at the what? No labels on covers either. That’s not compliant right? Even if I add gfci, won’t work at all in my office where I have a large UPS which refuses to operate without a ground connection. What to do then??

[@ElectricProAcademy]

Yeeeeeaaaaahhhh, sounds like it's time to talk to your landlord...

[@ranch3727]

Where was this video when I need it yesterday hahah!

[@davidwayneprins]

Sounds like I'm almost in compliance with all my electrical work since buying this 1910 house in May. I have an outlet in the laundry room not near the washer and dryer that is not GFCI (thus a possible grey area). None of the outlets are labeled GFCI Protected or No Equipment Group. Nor were they when we had the FHA inspection. I did label the boxes in the basement with circuit numbers and start a spreadsheet for this purpose (so I will eventually know what breaker every switch, light, outlet, fan, etc is on) I've used the Wago trick to extend wires (one of the three way switches for the steps is in a few steps from top landing so I changed it to a light up when off version but the wires were quite short) GFCI breakers is another method. Just gotta reroute the neutral wire.

[@Bob-TheTechGuy]

Just found your channel. Great videos! Thanks!

[@sean061158]

Have you memorized the National electrical code? Do you have a photographic memory? Love the detail you presented.

[@lamar9525]

Do you have a video that replacing outlet box?

[@americandreamsicle1]

I work at Lowes, unfortunately we do not carry leviton anymore

[@illestofdemall13]

You carry Legrand, correct?

[@jfgagne17]

Great video and very useful. I understand that ground is very important. What if i have ground in the house but i want to install a smart switch that do not have a ground wire. Can this be done and be code compliant?

[@jovetj]

For a smart switch, it depends on if a _neutral_ is present in the electrical box with the current switch. You need to investigate whether this is the case. If there is a neutral present, then choose a smart switch that requires a neutral. If there is no neutral present, then resort to a smart switch that does not require one. If you're unsure or uncomfortable about this, call a professional or take lots of pictures of the switch box to ask.

[@jfgagne17]

@@jovetj A neutral is present but my switch (sinope SW2500ZB) does not have a ground wire. Can this be installed in box (non- metallic)?

[@jovetj]

@@jfgagne17 If the device has no ground connection, then don't worry about it. I'm sure everything about it is plastic, right?

[@jfgagne17]

@@jovetj Yes it is

[@carbongrip2108]

Hmmm... I noticed that you used the clamp under the screw terminals to secure, is that better than just making a hook and using the screw terminal? I've noticed it seems like it depends on the grade of the outlet as to whether they give you the clamp option. More videos of you fixing your houses electrical please, hopefully you share the service upgrade you mentioned doing on your house.

[@aurvaroy6670]

Yes, clamps or back wiring is the preferred option when wiring those devices. It's so much easier, faster, and less stress on the copper to back wire as opposed to side wire or bending hooks. But it depends on how expensive the device is. Cheaper devices don't have clamps while pricier ones do.

[@Sunpixelvideo]

If you have a cheap 15A outlet, then don't use the back stabs. If there is a terminal clamp, there's no issue. Just don't leave all that exposed wire like he did in the video. Insulation should be all the way to the outlet.

[@tgmct]

Less expensive residential grade recepticles have cheap push-in (back-wired) connections that only are friction connected. More expensive commercial grade, specification grade, hospital grade, and every GFCI device that I've ever seen have clamp connectors that compress on to the wire when tightened. There is no need to bend hooks and side wire with these better grade devices (and not preferred). The cheaper devices usually last fine for years... until they don't. They are much more prone to fail when they are loaded up. They are not particularly dangerous and are UL listed, but they are a royal pain to trace out and repair. It's common for them to fail in such a way where the positiion of a connected cord can cause the failure to be intermittent.

[@keithharrington8715]

Oppions are like butt cracks, everyone has their own and some smell worse than others. The best connection method is "pig tailing". Yes your other commentors are correct, but stay away from using your recepticles as part of the circuit. The nec allows two or more 15 Amp recepticles to be placed on one 20 Amp breaker. This means the first recepticle may see 18, or 19 amps flowing through it's terminals as several recepticles draw power.....early failure. Pigtailing allows the wire to carry joints to carry current past those recepticle terminals and you have a much smaller Amp to through that first one.

[@1patrickx]

Clamps and back-wiring is different. A clamp offers the same if not more contact and strength pressure as wiring over a screw. In fact, I would personally recommend using the clamp instead of the screw because the screw is often designed to specifically press the clamp down, not for wrapping a wire around it. Back stabbing is different. I personally do not recommend it. I have seen it fail quite often. Back stab are only good for 14 gauge wire anyway. Clamps are good for multiple wire sizes. A 30A and 50A dryer or stove receptacle comes with a clamp style pressure connection. It would be a little more complicated, if not plain out difficult to wrap those wire sizes around a screw. It’s the same type for clamp screw setup in GFCI receptacles. That being said HUBBEL and LEVITON GFCI Receptacles are both listed for use in either method; strip 5/8 insulation for using the clamp for either one. Strip 3/4 for LEVITON or 1-in for HUBBEL for loop around screw. These are per each respective device’s instructions. I prefer to clamp it, that’s not a backstab.

[@ryanmcdonald724]

So what was wrong with your ground wire? Reattach to box add a jumper from box to device.. then no gfci required...?

[@tgmct]

Got to agree... Less than full size ground was the code back in the 60's. Continued use of old copper romex was NOT banned by later code editions. Where the ground wire was short too, I would have used a three position Wago and grounded both the device and box. Chances are the box does not have a threaded ground screw point, so you either have to tap it or use a grounding clip. Yes, the strap ground is on the device screw, but I prefer to be conservative rather than fast on old boxes like this. As for the need for the GFCI... It sort of depends on the interpreatation of the local inspector who will probably never see it. Again, I can't agree with eliminating the equipment ground when it's aleady there.

[@keithharrington8715]

At about 2:10 he points out the ground wire in the box does not go back to the panel.

[@tgmct]

@@keithharrington8715 He says "the ground connection is no longer there". This does not automatically translate to back to the panel and I don't think that's what he meant. It's not like he tested the ground wire to see if it was at the same potential as the neutral. The photo clearly shows the ground wire coming out of the same romex cable and does not appear to have any breaks or other damage.

[@DeeDee-rr3sn]

Couldnt you attach a wire and ground the receptical to the metal box? Assuming metal conduit is also present???

[@ElectricProAcademy]

When a tester indicates that there is no ground that means it has no ground through a wiring system or conduit system. Grounding the device to the box does not mean that the box is properly grounded, and grounding to metal conduit does not mean that the conduit is properly grounded all the way back to your ground rods. If (like in our case) a reliable tester still indicates no ground, you could test the other end of the conduit run, or the issue may be in the wall. Given that wild goose chase, we opted for a GFCI solution.

[@billhennie]

In the beginning of the video when the wires were shown, there was a bare ground wire present. Later you say there wasn't any ground in the box. Why did that change?

[@RossReedstrom]

My understanding is that the wire is present, but is not actually connected to the house ground, for some reason.

[@keithharrington8715]

At about 2:10 he mentions ground in box not connected to house (panel).

[@michaeljavert4635]

No ground wires in my house. Where there was an opportunity for grounds, the (genius) that wired this house cut the ground wire off, and used 3 prong outlets anyway. In the lavatories he did a bootleg ground to fool inspectors. I am pulling my hair out trying to run ground wires, instead of doing an entire rewire in some cases. While I do have a GFCI in those locations it bothers me that my GFCI tester does not light up as "correct" and it bothers me that I am unable to cause it to trip with a tester. I wish someone would cover how to run a ground, easily to outlets that are not grounded, and that do not have a ground wire to the metal box, nor have conduit pipes to ground.

[@okaro6595]

A tester should show open ground in case of no ground wire. That is just why one puts the "no equipment ground" label. In fact having the label and ground contact would be confusing. The test button also will not work without the ground wire. That is normal and not an error. The tester is just a tool. I would be more worried about actual risks tan the testers. Using the GFCI only on wet locations is somewhat questionable. One should really have both a ground and a GFCI. The GFCI can fail. With fridges and freezers GFCI can cause problems especially if you send much time away. Running computers ungrounded can cause problems when you try to connect them to other devices like TVs. You can run a separate ground wire is a complete wire is not practical. You must connect it to a known ground under the same panel (like a grounded socket). You cannot just stick a rod into the ground and think it is OK. The ground is just term used for it.

[@michaeljavert4635]

@@okaro6595 I don't use a GFCI on refrigerators and freezers. That's where a ground wire is even more important, because they're usually metal and can carry current. And yes, you can put a rod in the ground and get a ground wire that way. There is a whole section on how to do that properly though. It can be done though not as simple as it sounds.

[@michaeljavert4635]

@@okaro6595 The No Ground sticker is used on GFCIs that are not grounded, though have a ground contact anyway. On a NON GFCI outlet, you cannot have a 3 prong outlet if no ground is present. Almost all testers, except for 1 do not show bootleg or false grounds. Test buttons on GFCI themselves do work without a ground. The test button on the tester will not work if there is no ground. If the GFCI fails and it is still hot when it fails, then a ground isn't going to save you. Also a GFCI is not going to cause a problem on a fridge or freezer, unless there is a fault. And if you're away, then there shouldn't be anything to cause a fault since it's there to protect you... Leave it alone, and it's not going to trip. And sticking a rod into the ground are exactly how ground wires work. Think about your pipes. There There are 3 wires that come from the utility 2 hots and a neutral. So most panels, in older homes that have copper pipes has the box bonded to the copper pipe. If there is not a copper water pipe then rods are driven into the ground, several feet and the fuse box circuit box is grounded that way.

[@averagereviews3389]

@@okaro6595 can you fix your grammar so I can actually read your comment

[@tedlahm5740]

A sticker goes on the GFCI stating No Ground.

[@jameskappel]

Hello, was wondering if the outlet receptacle was 15amp or 20amp. my fuse box is 20amps. have read that a 15amp may overheat? unsure. just wondering.

[@surferdude642]

It was 15 amp which is ok and code compliant even with a 20 amp circuit. It's the wire gauge that's important and must be 12 gauge for a 20 amp circuit.

[@keithharrington8715]

Even today, 2020 nec 210.21.(B).(3). and table 210. 21.(B).(3). Allows for 2 or more 15 Amp recepticles on a 20 Amp circuit.

[@okaro6595]

15 A is OK as long as you have at least two receptacles which is almost always the case as they come in two in one.

[@brianc3481]

Are there any places where you must have the ground conductor even if you have a GFCI where one doesn't exist?

[@okaro6595]

If the outlet was up to code when installed then you can change it using the GFCI method without running a round wire. On new inhalations you of course must have the ground. I would want a ground conductor in dangerous locations: bathrooms, kitchens, outside.

[@kgt9535]

Will this GFCI receptacle trip (as it was designed to do) even though there's an open ground, or did I miss something?

[@surferdude642]

Yes, however it may not protect equipment plugged in from damage without the ground wire.

[@kgt9535]

@@surferdude642 That's what I was thinking....

[@Mike1614b]

yes, but this circuit is not protected from a lightning strike. "The purpose of a ground rod(s)is to have a path to dissipate a static discharge voltage (which can be lightning or other forms of static electricity) to the earth. The electrical earth ground rod is usually considered at zero volts." A ground rod is designed to stabilize voltages from the power source and to dissipate a static discharge (usually lightning) to earth. Also the earth ground conductor should never carry current under normal use, *unless a ground fault, or lost neutral connection occurs*.

[@surferdude642]

@@Mike1614b It sounds like you're describing a grounding electrode conductor. What's missing here is an equipment grounding conductor. They serve 2 different purposes.

[@Mike1614b]

@@surferdude642 yes, agree

[@helmanfrow]

Also, Wago now makes an inline butt-splice lever nut in the 221 series.

[@keithharrington8715]

Thanks

[@jeffhansman2829]

But these are not easy to find. Wago did not have them in stock, and I ended up waiting nearly a month to get the from Amazon. These are the ideal solution for extending wire from Romex; the side-by-side two connector type can be a pain when extending.

[@helmanfrow]

@@jeffhansman2829 Good point. These days there's not telling if you'll be able to get your hands on anything.

[@Sunpixelvideo]

Anyone else bothered by the amount of insulation stripped on that hot wire? I'm sure it won't fault, but I was taught that this is bad practice.

[@1patrickx]

It may have had a little extra insulation stripped than necessary. Two points I will make: 1) The receptacle has a strip gauge reference on it. Do we know if Jefferson’s insulation stripping exceeded the reference point? No we don’t, unless we obtain the same brand and model receptacle and check it for ourselves. 2) The terminals are recessed which offers some protection from the terminal making contact with the metal of the box. With that said, I personally agree that it appeared to have a little too much insulation stripped. APPEARED is the key word. I’ve seen people strip almost an inch and a half and makes me wonder what the heck they were thinking and how much talent it took to get that in the box without creating a fault. Not to defend Jefferson, because what appeared to be the case is currently only our perception until we actually go out and prove the fact, even it was to touch the metal of the box there would most likely be amperage leakage of more than 6mA of current causing the GFCI protection to open the circuit.

[@Sunpixelvideo]

Ok... If the wire faulted to the box, why would the GFCI trip? Like I was saying, it probably won't fault. And regardless of having the device or not, no strip gauge from that manufacturer would leave that much bare copper. I'm not trying to build a legal case. Just saying it didn't look like the connections I typically make. But I work in an industrial setting and a fault could cost thousands of dollars for a few minutes down time.

[@1patrickx]

@@Sunpixelvideo The box is metal which is likely in contact with or bonded to something conductive. That will cause the 6mA leakage required to trip the GFCI. The clamp wire method for LEVITON and HUBBEL both indicate a 5/8 -in of insuation strip. The screw method on LEVITON calls for 3/4 -in insulation strip and 1-in for HUBBEL. In industrial I would never leave any extra bare wire either. On my motor connections I tape my wirenuts for added protection. I’ve had a welder blow my 1200A switch gear. It bypassed the 60A fuses and the 100A Bus Plug. Took an hour to figure out what blew my switch gear. So I’m also very particular in my methods in industrial. Being I work in all fields of electrical, I respect each others methods as long it is safe and doesn’t violate codes. I can’t justify measuring another master electrician’s methods unless I could call out a code violation. That is why I said that I agree that it appear that way, but I do not know if it was longer than 5/8-in, and even with the little extra isulation exposure I couldnt call a particular safety hazard in this scenerio.

[@Sunpixelvideo]

Yeah, I've seen welders fail to check their grounds and blow a panel or two. Had a welder working on a break room that wasn't tired into the main building structure, so the panel was the only ground path. Just because you bring it up about needing the actual device. I just checked and based on the strip gauge on the back of the outlet, the insulation stops about 1/16" from the edge of the plastic housing. That was for both a leviton 15 & 20A GFCI that is on hand.

[@1patrickx]

@@Sunpixelvideo I know the specs say 5/8-in and you’re able to get a device and check the strip gauge and determine that only 1/16 or less is exposed. Being the device was the same brand and type we can safely deduce that the instructions wasn’t followed, which is a code violation. I never said you were wrong, I just said we need to verify, it’s gives us the opportunity to learn to go out and actually do our homework. I pulled up the specs, you pulled up an actual device. And now know that your initial assessment was correct. So now I can claim 110.3 (B) violation.

[@daveenerson6763]

If you have a GFCI breaker, can you replace ungrounded 2-prong with standard 3-prong outlets? Do all the outlets need to be labeled as protected?

[@okaro6595]

Yes, they need to be marked both with "no equipment ground" and "GFCI protected".

[@brians8664]

@@okaro6595 and they must use a faceplate with no exposed fasteners. This prevents someone from hurting themselves on an energized box/ground since there is no path back to the panel on the ground.

[@keithharrington8715]

Yes and yes. 2020 nec 406.4(D).(2).(c). Allows this replacement and requires both markings....." gfci protected" and "no equipment ground".

[@okaro6595]

​@@brians8664Is this a joke? Do you realize what is connected to the box? Every appliance with a ground prong. Worrying about some screws makes no sense.

[@TY-ob7fz]

One of the issues you didn’t address is why the hot wire broke off upon removing old outlet. That comes from use of wire strippers. Solid copper wire is like glass. Use of wire strippers scores the copper around its circumference. If you make a couple of hard bends with pliers or twisting will notice the bare copper will fall off easily. The copper on the circumference is a weak point. Bending occurred when twisting wires together for wire nuts or simply pushing outlets into box for placement. Think best in practice in stripping solid copper insulation is using a box cutter, peeling along the length of the wire exposing bare copper, then peeling back insulation with hands and cutting off with diagonals. Most people don’t use strippers properly and especially home diy’ers. Just my 2¢.

[@davidyansky6605]

Yes. good day.

[@eastcoastmodz5195]

In my apartment my outlets are just 2 wire no ground. So when one was replaced I noticed the electrician didn't label the outlets "no equipment ground' nor did the outlet have a way to ground the receptacle to the metal box it was installed in. The building is built in 1900's ...

[@DGTelevsionNetwork]

File a complaint with HUD

[@okaro6595]

If there is no ground then "grounding to the metal box" makes no sense. I do not like the idea of ungrounded metal boxes as if the live wire would touch the box it would energize all connected equipment cases.

[@keithtomlin4649]

If that ground does work use the ground any way even if the code says to label the cover with no equipment ground with gfi that ground getting enrgizide will trip gfi quickly (if gfi is working properly). Use two different grounding screws to the junction box grounding the Safety ground wire to the box and another to the box going to the recptical plugin so the box is grounded as will; code requires the metal junction box to be grounded; the recptical officially does not need to be grounded in this scenario because the recptical is designed to work as an equipment ground if tightly held in place directly to metal electrical box but I would prefer to have a physical ground to the recptical plugin for added safety especially if the recptical becomes loose. Ps Using grounding clips not advisable when wall coverings is all ready in place such as sheet rock you could loosen the junction box it happen to me once.

[@keithharrington8715]

At about time 2:10 he mentions that there is a ground wire in the box and he points out that it does not return to the panel. Since this box was installed, I expect, before the requirement to ground the box, there is no way to meet the nec 314.4 requirement to ground the box without a home renovation.

[@benjaminwallace4626]

Well this tells me, at my grandmas house, the only thing I forgot was to out GFCI and no equipment ground stickers on the protected outlets

[@VOLTRONDEFENDER4440]

if the box is made of metal and the plug is not a isolated ground you can screw the outlet in without wiring the ground wire

[@okaro6595]

No, you must use self-grounding outlet. Only it provides good enough ground. Also of course the box needs to be _properly_ grounded. An ungrounded metal box is a danger even with a GFCI. If it leads current to the equipment ground conductor the GFCI will not trip. It is important to understand the difference between ground and good enough ground though any ground will cause GFCI to trip.

[@VOLTRONDEFENDER4440]

@@okaro6595 thats what I ment! you misread my comment

[@johnds6621]

SO that Outlet is a GFI one but it wasn't protecting because the ground wasn't hooked up? I think I missed something here.

[@ElectricProAcademy]

A standard 3-prong would not have a functioning ground, so the GFCI circuitry serves that safety feature by killing power in the event of an emergency.

[@johnds6621]

@@ElectricProAcademy I always thought the GFCI worked only with a grounded line. Interesting.

[@okaro6595]

You should test the outlet with the test button. Those external testers are unnecessary.

[@4nrmike]

Any places not recommended for GFCI? Or any location they would not be permitted?

[@surferdude642]

Gfci's are not permitted in concealed areas like behind a refrigerator.

[@keithharrington8715]

Ted is right, and let me add....2020 nec 210.8 says the gfci must be "readily accessible". 210.(A). Lists the locations in a dwelling (house) where they mist be. Here is where things get fun..... 2020 nec 100 gives the definition of "readily accessible".....Accessible, ready (readily accessible) capable of being reached quickly for operation renewal or inspection without requiring those to whom ready access is requisite to take actions such as use tools other than keys to climb over or under or remove obstacles or resort to Portable ladders and so forth. So appliance garages servicing countertops need gfci protection, but the gfci must be outside of the garage.

[@johnbushur6080]

I’m missing why the no equipment ground label is needed here. There is a ground wire in the box. He mentions it’s undersized, so is that the reason? But if so why is it undersized if it’s part of the 12-2 romex cable coming in? I’m not familiar with old houses.

[@tgmct]

An undersized ground wire was the way that romex was manufactured back in the 60's and before. I remember the screaming from all the contractors back in 69 when the code went to full size ground wires in romex (70 code?). You would swear you were taking money out of their pocket. Not much different than every GFCI protection upgrade in later code cycles.

[@johnbushur6080]

@@tgmct Thank you!

[@stevenfoust3782]

Lot of copper showing on the blk. Fail! Probably fine what’s it gonna touch.

[@newield76]

My area require ground prong up on outlets.

[@TREVONBACH]

i dunno about this. been working mine for 6 days and only red light. fed up i got tester said faulty ground. took ground off and reset... still red light. thinking what is connected to the ground from the second floor (1900s house) PLUMBING... so no plastic... i read up so replies about it are nil as i may not use but when connected to ground the tester came up clear. a ok... for the first time in 6 days. live learn. then i see all these guys doing 2 wire and i am astounded that theirs work and mine dont. maybe different GFCI... thanks tho

[@imark7777777]

Yeah sure label to downstream outlets so you know that you need to find a GFCI that doesn't exist to reset it. They're never easy to find either. They really should have stickers that say you're looking for the GFCI in the downstairs basement closet behind everything..... Besides those labels are permanently visible until somebody takes a paint roller over the whole thing....

[@okaro6595]

Just trip the GFCI and check which do not work. There is no legal requirement to mark them if you keep them two prong.

[@rexgoodheart3471]

Huh? Your video title says "replace a 2 prong outlet" but you're working on a 3 prong outlet.

[@ElectricProAcademy]

Fair. A 2-prong outlet is an outlet without a ground, so our faulty 3-prong outlet is functionally the same. Just wanted to make the information available to a slightly wider audience.

[@frankjones4550]

Why did you take down the lithium ion phosphate bus video. You ghosted that. It is Weird.

[@crazysquirrel9425]

3"? lol I shoot for 6" to 8" out of the box. I HATE short wires. Ok what if BOTH wires are the same color (black usually on very old wiring)? Or if both are cloth wrapped? I will *ALWAYS* wrap every receptacle. That metal tab is also there to ground a metal outlet cover. All that BS is horrible looking. Who wants stickers plastered everywhere? Got a NON Decora GFCI that is two prong? Dark brown preferably? Why not just use a GFCI breaker instead of all that nonsense? Lucky me my stuff is grandfathered due to age of the building (over 100 years old). 3 prong GFCI's are overkill. Nearly everything you plug in is 2 prong. Hint: if you have outlets that *MUST* be upgraded then get it done BEFORE you put it on the market and before an inspector comes. You can avoid those high fees for replacements. Any decent handyman can under cut those prices by a LOT. My outlets are 2 prong antique. I do not want to 'upgrade' to squat, and especially do not want to plaster stickers all over the place. Upgrading will destroy the appearance and value. I just want to replace with like and kind.

[@Ryan-mj8kc]

Normally like your videos and thank you for making them, but this one is lacking some important considerations. Also a somewhat sloppy installation with the faceplate sitting off of the wall 😧

[@lightingnut]

How about a video on replacing 2 prong outlets to 3 prong outlets in an old home that does not have a ground wire.

[@keithharrington8715]

This is that video. Gfci's can protect downstream recepticles weather breakers or recepticles themselves. 2030 nec 406.4.(D).(2)....(b). and (c). Have the requirements he showed in the video....except the down stream or load side recepticles must be labeled with both "no equipment ground" and "gfci protected".

[@goldenboy5500]

there was a obvious ground wire in the box why was it not used and if that ground wire was not connected to a ground why was that not repaired and made functable looks like half a job

[@shaunburke]

Having to put a sticker on a receptacle? What a naf idea.

[@keithharrington8715]

This is a building code, nec requirement in 406.4.(D).(2). Best idea, maybe not, but code.

[@johnhackett6709]

Why is the whole American electric system so outdated and dangerous compared with other countries especially at the end user end of installation with exposed terminations of all conductors.

[@alerighi]

A GFCI without a ground connection will not work properly: it can only trip if enough current (30mA is standard in my country) manages to get to the ground in some other ways that is not the ground conductor (that is not connected). Chances are that this will not happen, and the path get closed by the unfortunate person touching the metal enclosure of the faulty appliance (at that point the GFCI will trip, but it may be too late, even 30mA of current may under some circumstances be lethal).

[@okaro6595]

That just is the purpose we install them. GFCIs are intended just to trip when someone gets shocked. In the US they trip at 5 mA.

[@BearStar1]

Yes , But it has to be a GFCI Receptacle and it has to be labeled "" No Equipment Ground '' !!! by 2020 Code !

[@crimsyhs]

He literally says that at 7:52

[@BearStar1]

@@crimsyhs ; Yes I know but I stated it before he mentioned it !

[@keithharrington8715]

Remember that 2020 nec 406.4.(D).(2).(a). Allows the replacement of a non-ground type with a non-ground type.

[@ChadDrakeTech]

Video title has nothing to do with the video. You stripped too much wire off that black cable and left too much exposed copper. Why didn’t you ground the box with the ground cable inside? Then it would have been bonded to the outlet as well.

[@brians8664]

The master electrician DID THIS WRONG! Wrong faceplate! Because the metal box doesn’t have a ground & the outlet isn’t grounded you have to use a faceplate with no exposed screws. This prevents a situation where the box and/or screws become energized and someone touches it. You also had a “shiner” on at least the hot contact. Not allowed! Both would fail inspection.

[@okaro6595]

Do not worry about the crews. The box is connected through the ground contact to anything plugged in it with a three prong plug.

[@bigwoodrz]

Where is the reference to Ground? Bare wire exposed at the connection. If you are a CEO it is in name only. Certainly not a Master Electrician.