Can You Shoot An Active Shooter Even If You're Not The Target?

[@drosspunter]

One should do what is right, regardless of the law. To protect the innocent is right.

[@SGxShadow]

Cool... now based on the video above, if you can not tell which is which... what would you do?

[@kobeandgary]

@@SGxShadow dude came in and started unloading on people in church... Do you really have difficulty assessing who is whom?

[@briangc1972]

That is the claim of the Right to Life crowd; protecting the innocent who cannot protect themselves.

[@drosspunter]

@@briangc1972 Agreed. The unborn are innocent and should be protected.

[@mhvisionzz9690]

No go home to your family

[@buckeyepatriot4594]

Defending innocent life from evil intent is a no brainer for me.

[@SGxShadow]

Cool... now based on the video above, if you can not tell which is which... what would you do?

[@sinncier]

From a moral stand point, sure. The question is(and the topic of this video), is it that important to you to potentially spend the rest of your life in jail? It's sad that the system forces us to make that decision, either way.

[@buckeyepatriot4594]

@@sinncier I am only concerned with God's judgement, not man's. That is my truth

[@EmaFIT7]

@@SGxShadow that’s exactly what I thought 💭

[@AndiRose21]

Places of worship are dealt with differently than other places.

[@nathanstrickland6508]

It's sad that law abiding citizens have to be afraid of repercussions in the eyes of the law when defending themselves and innocent people around them. It's sad that certain people who enforce the law. Want to demonize the gun, and not the criminal who is using it to kill innocent people.

[@eddym4378]

100 percent agree…… I think about this all the time! It’s almost like criminals have more rights than law abiding citizens!

[@pex_the_unalivedrunk6785]

@@eddym4378 ever watch Clock Work Orange? The sicko becomes the "victim". Society is dumb...and only gets dumber when liberals are in control.

[@geebee6010]

If we do things normally, the overpaid “law enforcement” officers, etc. wouldn’t have jobs. Politicians wouldn’t have jobs. Neither would DA’s, etc. it’s designed to keep controlled chaos in check.

[@davidcarroll2908]

This is what the left wants , they need criminals on the streets to help them insteal fear in the masses to keep control.

[@reddawng43x91]

No, I disagree! You don’t have to be afraid of consequences! It’s a choice not a law !

[@jimwebser2180]

It's really sad that we have even worry about this in a Church service but unfortunately it's a reality to be prepared for

[@shadowfoxarchon5021]

As a gun carrier I feel it's my responsibility to safeguard those who's lives are at risk if no one else is in a position to do so even without firearm its the decent thing to do to protect others but let police do their job when they arrive

[@l.garcia3525]

I do not see any thing wrong with protecting some one at risk of their life, period...

[@shadowfoxarchon5021]

@@l.garcia3525 yes but dont get in the way and be a neucanse

[@McCaroni_Sup]

​​@@shadowfoxarchon5021 By the way, I hate to be that guy, but it's spelled "nuisance". Otherwise, I agree. I personally wouldn't stop an active shooter unless I had to (either I am in immediate danger or my friends/family are), but I certainly wouldn't disparage anyone who would. In regards to your own personal safety that's a personal decision, but saving the lives of others isn't something I can really disagree with. That said, I'd not pull out my firearm if the police were already in an active engagement with the suspect. No reason to unnecessarily add another potential threat to their radar lest you also get shot.

[@Edgar-kl6us]

I wholeheartedly DIS-AGREE, … I would not be worried about my own personal safety, especially, when someone, has opened fire in a church, … where folks have gathered to hear the word of the Lord, … not to be shot at, or around, … one reason I have always generally sat in the back of the church, … other, than when a family member had passed, where I was required to sit in the front pews, … which, because a very bad habit I had years ago, I sat in the back, so that I could duck out silently, & have a smoke, …

[@shadowfoxarchon5021]

@@Edgar-kl6us soo I'm a bit confused are you saying you are a coward or just wouldn't care if those around you are in mortal danger?

[@anonymouslee2083]

An active shooter is an imminent deadly threat to EVERYONE in the immediate vicinity

[@rishz7857]

Active shooter is "active", so neutralize that threat.

[@anonymouslee2083]

@@rishz7857 true. In fact even someone who brandishes in public is committing aggravated assault on everyone in the vicinity. Therefore, everyone can legally shoot that person. At least in SYG states, probably even in DTR states, since fleeing could get you shot in the back, which isn’t “in complete safety.”

[@bobsbillets8863]

Apparently the cops in Texas didnt get the memo!

[@travisspaulding2222]

The video brings up a good point. If there is an engagement, between the active shooter and security (sometimes private security is not uniformed), then you have to make sure that the shooter you are engaging is the active shooter. If you do not properly assess the situation, then you might end up shooting the wrong person. If you do that, you will put yourself in a bad legal position because you didn't properly identify the threat.

[@thomasherbert5790]

100%

[@tylerterrell8907]

The fact that this is even a question tells you there is something seriously wrong with the American legal system.

[@charleycharley2776]

Exactly🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸

[@cruisethewhip]

Wait until you find out that the security is now being sued for having his gun and DEFENDING the people in that church. (Texas) real story.

[@johnb8389]

Was just about to comment the same.

[@billyray8062]

Exactly!!

[@chrish7336]

You are right. Over the years, our Gov has been tying the hands of not only the police but gun owners and those that protect. They have been giving Criminals more rights than Non-Criminals.

[@Nick-yu5pl]

It's both insane and disgusting that anytime you legitimately need to use your weapon you have to stop and think hard about the possible outcome of that decision.

[@Litfilmz]

It’s completely unamerican, and a disgrace of our once beautiful justice system. The libtards have criminalized protecting your community, they want utter chaos and no control because that’s what they’re overlord satan loves…. It’s truly sad how people don’t see that this is the beginning of tribulations…

[@deborahgleason7885]

Anyone with a weapon who either cannot or will not "think hard about the possible outcome of that decision" should not have a weapon.

[@Nick-yu5pl]

@deborahgleason7885 you missed the most important part of my statement "legitimately need to use your weapon". Clearly reading comprehension is something you lack. Please, spare the world and don't have children.

[@nonconsensualopinion]

Can you please pause, go back, read carefully what you wrote, and reflect on that? Are you kidding me? It's a gun and you're about to potentially kill somebody. Of course you need to think carefully about it. The attorney in this video just laid out some reasons: you might actually shoot the wrong person, like the legal ccw holder or security in your confusion. You may miss and kill one or more innocent, unintended targets. Imagine security has this person at gunpoint and you kill the security person. Or they have the situation under control and you kill an innocent bystander needlessly. I'm not saying to not involve yourself, but how can you even criticize the suggestion that you think hard about what you are doing?

[@Nick-yu5pl]

@@nonconsensualopinion calm down little guy. I don't have to explain myself to you. Get a life

[@ronrobertson59]

I'm a former police officer and I'm taking the shot in an active shooter situation and worry about it later.

[@martybass7376]

They are trying to fry on duty cops, what chance do you have ?;

[@ronrobertson59]

@@martybass7376 I am glad I'm not on the job today. Police are in more danger from the courts and city government than we are the street thugs. I live in a deep red state with CCW and stand your ground laws. I feel confident I could take shot to stop an active shooter and not face arrest.

[@paspax]

The "active shooter" has many targets. Those targets are... everyone he can see in that place. He has stepped outside the law and has, therefore, forfeited his right to protection under the law. He's fair game and can, and should, be taken out with impunity.

[@tooslow4065]

what if that group of people he's shooting had just raped a child? you dont know what kind of church that was. maybe they sacrifice children. you're gonna jump in and kill the avenging parent? good job.

[@markmcgoveran6811]

Well I'm glad to hear you say that and if you ever do shoot somebody I'm glad that you posted it and I'm glad to figure out the judge might read it to you and explain to you that's not how the law works. You'd better have an awful lot of money or you might be there till you die.

[@paspax]

@@markmcgoveran6811 ... OK, snowflake.

[@Diaszurana]

I wish that were true, but going by the amount of people who are in prison but shouldn't be, and going by the number of people who have been sued but shouldn't have been sued, that isn't the case. As stupid as that is, that is what we're dealing with.

[@markmcgoveran6811]

The active shooter as many targets and so does the person shooting at the active shooter. Anybody can hit a bystander pretty easy in a situation like that. Of course you may get bad information hear shots fired and two heroes go to address the active shooter and shoot each other. Heard the gunshots saw a guy with a gun took him out.

[@GunSam]

If you are in a church sanctuary, and some lunatic is shooting people in there, you ARE the target of the attack.

[@PJ-is1jy]

Exactly! These guys are clown's

[@ThePorkchopExpress975]

exactly this guy asking can you attack because he’s shooting at someone else but an active shooter will eventually come for u or the children

[@suebaker8516]

I agree! You would neutralize the attacker asap. You won’t have time to consider all the legal ramifications there could be. My only fear would be that with you now being the only one holding a gun and the last on to fire, what would be the most logical thing to do to save yourself from some other attendee, especially a legally armed visitor from taking you out by mistake? Seems that this needs to be considered in the ‘survival plan’ as well..

[@AndiRose21]

As a responsible gun owner and carrier, you have the duty to know if you are allowed to carry in places of worship in your state. In OH it’s a felony to carry in a place of worship (just to CARRY, not use) unless you have specific permission from the head/preacher/priest/admin of that place. Defending during any incident puts you at risk of going to prison should you not have that permission. You can only hope that if you “saved the day” that those in charge will have your back and say they’d given you permission to carry on their property. Otherwise you go to prison for saving their lives. Responsible gun ownership means knowing the laws and acting according to them. It means not putting yourself or your family into hardship because you didn’t.

[@frankbeardsley2941]

I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6. It was technically illegal for me to carry concealed in a federal building, but I did after we were informed by FBI that chatter indicated we were a potential target.

[@sar4x474]

Our elected officials, DA’s, judges and civil attorneys have slowly been chipping away at one of our most fundamental rights; our right to life. The Kyle Rittenhouse case was not a murder trial. It was a trial against the right of self defense. The fact that we are even having a discussion about whether you can defend an innocent against violent assault is pretty telling.

[@SeraphimDragon]

That case and how MSM was portraying it was absolutely disgusting. It was textbook self defense, and there were no more shot people than was absolutely necessary. It couldn't have been any cleaner of an example to reference on how to handle a dangerous situation. And to any idiot saying he didn't have the right or shouldn't have been allowed to defend his community, I demand you to abandon your own home, your own friends, your own work place and simply watch as others burn and destroy anything and everything you care about. If he can't protect his own life within reason, or where he works/lives, then neither should his critics.

[@sar4x474]

@@SeraphimDragon Well said!

[@Editnamehere]

@@sar4x474 you’re a sheep to think this is a free country. Is it the best country yes are we a free country no.

[@sy73326]

I agree with what you say but would edit it to say, "we have allowed our elected officials." It is on us to stop them.

[@sar4x474]

@@sy73326 Excellent point.

[@jamesbfaber7770]

As a wheelchair user and licensed carrier I would love to hear these men discuss when I can and cannot use my weapon either in self defense or to protect the innocent.

[@dahorseyguy1]

Our head of security is a friend of mine. He is a sheriff deputy and has asked that I not even draw my weapon unless I am the first contact or the security team is out of action. I agree because I don't want to be shot by a team member.

[@kmarshall131]

ITS FUNNY HOW YOU CAN NEVER EVER GET A STRAIGHT ANSWER FROM A LAWYER.

[@jfrog1979]

So much gray out there man👍

[@sinncier]

That's because of the broken system they have to navigate around, not the lawyers fault. Unless he is just flat out trying to be deceptive.

[@ronaldfulton1175]

It is because they get paid by the hour and are "practicing" law. Lawyer that does the best research of case law "wins".They all walk away with their pockets full.

[@tjmayer9103]

Kevin - Especially a prosecutor turned defense Attorney !

[@Honestandtruth007]

Which Lawyer...❓❓😂

[@milliondollaboiibsb4927]

Hell yeah you shoot as a person who carries I think it's our duty to protect those around us when they cannot protect themselves

[@jfrog1979]

Nope. If people who are fully qualified to own and carry a weapon that don’t/won’t, it’s certainly not my duty to make sure they don’t suffer from the consequences of their choices. Children I will protect👍

[@kennethmcfarland8478]

There is so many legal loop holes that can get you thrown in jail. When all you wanted to do is defend yourself, loved ones, and dear friends from the bad guys. They might as well have already taken our weapons by causing us to be afraid to defend ourselves and loved ones. Giving the bad guys an added edge because he want pause before shooting. They will walk in brazenly knowing most of the people will cower due to legal issues they will face if they shoot him.

[@PESCANDOCONFELIPE]

Amén brother

[@Honestandtruth007]

@@kennethmcfarland8478 Sounds like the Law makers are Criminals themselves.... That's why sometimes Laws are STUPID LAWs

[@daltongarrett7117]

@@jfrog1979 oh but it is your responsibility, as a good, sane, sober, moral person, it is in fact your duty as it is all who carry, to protect yourself and those around you. Active killer shooting up the bar or other adult establishment? Our responsibility as people with the tools to do something about it, to do something about it. Otherwise it's nothing more than extra weight as you run away and let people die so why carry it?

[@saltrock9642]

I couldn’t live with myself knowing I could have done something and didn’t. What’s sad is that you have seconds to react but the justice system has up to years deciding whether or not you made the right call. I’ll take that chance.

[@crand20033]

Better to run away. Our justice system is not fair at all.

[@4StonesHandcraft]

When I was learning to drive my dad taught me the saying, “If you don’t know, don’t go.” The same rule can apply here.

[@JohnKMazzie]

Thank you for the video(s). I believe providing "real life" scenarios is very informative.

[@maryricketts7337]

I agree, the discussion is about getting people to think about potential situations. Too many posters are complaining that the lawyer can’t give a cut and dried answer when there isn’t one.

[@christianmarcusdills1224]

We carry to protect not only ourselves and loved ones, but strangers as well.

[@vicdiaz5180]

Love ones is a different story, but where I live the law says I have a duty to retreat so if I intervene I’m going to jail

[@jfrog1979]

Yup, not in every situation. ie I most definitely won’t get involved in domestic situations.

[@ronaldrichardson4451]

absolutely peace!

[@AlexxxPerales]

Maybe you, not me though. they had their whole lives to prepare. Imma not risk it and just peace out. Lol

[@MeltingRubberZ28]

@@vicdiaz5180 what state

[@THall-vi8cp]

Every person in the church were the intended target. Security just got in the way. Even if the shooter is distracted by security, the other people are still targets.

[@turn-n-burn1421]

I don't think our church has 'security'. If they do, they're very low profile. Of course, I haven't outed myself by asking that question. As far as I'm concerned, I'm security. First to myself and my wife and secondly to everyone else in that church/mall/movie theater, wherever.

[@matthewbartley2746]

@@turn-n-burn1421 right on Ya there. Not a church goer myself.. but I know God wants us to be vigilant and our brothers keeper. Don't be afraid to ask the question. It may possibly be that you are the only one who actually had the thought. Perhaps you might find some of the other fellows and ladies there who feel the same as you and are willing to work together. If nothing else.. you find some new shooting buddies

[@KyleSmith-bh2cv]

Yes remember er the church in Texas a few yrs ago.and the person across the street heard the shots and grabbed his AR and when shooter came out chasing people to shoot he intervened and wounded the assailant and he drove off and cops found him bled out on side of road. No charges

[@aheroictaxidriver3180]

Wait. So you know the shooter's motive even though you know nothing about the shooter? That's serious magic.

[@SeraphimDragon]

@@aheroictaxidriver3180 Wait, so you're telling me a person needs to read the mind of a hostile armed person who just got done shooting people to tell if it's OK to shoot them and stop them from shooting anyone else? Wow, sounds like you really got a handle on common sense. You should be a law maker! I'm sure you'd fit right in with all the other gun control advocates.

[@Louisiananews]

How do you know that you are not a target? Active shooter means shooting at anyone.

[@silva777]

Yes, there are no safe people in this situation. The whole video is based on a faulty premise. You have a right to defend yourself.

[@tonycarabellese9981]

The fact that you have to ask that question tells everyone something is terribly wrong here

[@philipmartin2622]

I attend a large church where I don’t know many people. They have a security team who I also don’t know in plain clothes. If i attempted to help, the security team may identify me as another shooter. Since most shots fired under pressure go wild, attempting to help would most likely do more harm than good. This could really get tragic if several members had concealed carry and entered the firefight.

[@BlankityBlank]

I believe in "run, hide, fight", but I also believe in carrying a firearm, having it out and ready in this situation, and not hesitating to defend myself if/when myself or anyone is in fear of death or great bodily harm. Let common sense dictate, and it's so important to have real-world training.

[@Honestandtruth007]

REAL World Training in this kind of Craziness is A Must have.. ...... Problem is hard to find One where I live..😔

[@rishz7857]

Hesitation equals a high body count of innocents. Act swiftly.

[@paulreeder5241]

Try explaining "Common sense" to the laws in this country.

[@wincav]

Pretty sad how our laws have evolved to the point where a person trying to neutralize a deadly situation has to worry about the possibility of going to jail. Too many laws. Way too many attorneys pushing for more laws.

[@douglaslynch1920]

If,I'm in a active shooter incident. I will do what I can protect the people I see a shooter who is shooting people. I WILL shoot to stop the threat.

[@matthouston8411]

which laws specifically?

[@CodyG.]

@@matthouston8411 really?

[@daltongarrett7117]

@@matthouston8411 any and all possession laws, any and all laws that see the good Samaritan going to prison for protection of life, any and all laws that put the innocent person in prison while the actual criminals go free with a fat paycheck from his victims. Not specific but still these are broad strokes that need addressed.

[@geebee6010]

It’s a business

[@robertlorimer843]

I appreciate the videos and understand that in some cases it's not exactly a black and white situation. But I honestly feel like each of these videos basically dances around the question the entire video. I can understand from a legal perspective the gentlemen who is the lawyer can't give you a yes/ no - shoot/ don't shoot answer. But sometimes these videos make the scenario even more confusing. Somebody comes in my church shooting?! sorry buddy, I hope you make it to the alter before you bleed out.

[@antoniosalinas3691]

Yes thank you!!!!

[@Idahoridge]

Could not agree with this more.

[@keyballa]

Right

[@brentyoung7655]

I agree

[@Nope145]

Your assessment is spot on

[@joenevin3746]

Love how your videos are concise, as opposed to blathering on for an hour.

[@gene6485]

Because of this type of legal ease , we have nearly rendered the self defense of ourselves and others nearly impossible. It’s not that grey of an area… was someone there with the intent to hurt or kill you or someone else? Better yet most of the guys who get blasted by licensed gun owners don’t even know or care who they are attacking , they are just random people that were very unlucky to meet one of these sociopaths.

[@seanthefilmaker]

Protect and defend says all I need to know in this situation. It is sad how our justice system makes us have to think twice about defending the innocent. Good point/counterpoint on this video. A lot to mull over but I still say I would have to intervene. Stay safe out there.

[@crand20033]

But he just said you might shoot the good guy with a gun because the guy you saw with a gun might be a good guy that was trying to get the bad guy.

[@blanktrigger8863]

​@@crand20033Yes, there are all sorts of unlikely possibilities that can be brought up to counter self defense. They mean nothing.

[@PathinAZ]

Great conversation. In SD class many years ago, we were told of a case where a CCW holder pulled into a convenience store. Upon doing so, he saw a plain clothes guy, standing on the customer side of the register, pointing a gun at whoever was behind the register. The CCW carrier opened fire through the window at the "armed assailant", killing him. Turns out, it was an off duty cop that was holding his gun on the perp who was behind the register. Just an added food for thought.

[@Hugh_Manitee]

Sad to say, better to call 911 at that position and stay outside. Unless your wife or kids are in there. Then it's a no brainer.

[@silva777]

That doesn't apply here. When someone starts shooting in a church you can bet its not a cop. smh.

[@br.david-albertzinzosbcn4589]

Our church does not have "professional security" personnel coverage. This is also in SD and church policy is that we are a "gun-free" zone. I always carry when I attend anyway and I have a CCP. Since I know everyone there and they know me (I am a vowed member of a religious order and wear a habit), there is mutual recognition of identity. That makes a big difference but that habit is a hindrance in moving around. But then again, it might make the shooter pause for a critical second to give me an edge. Every situation is unique in its own way though. The members are my church "family" and I will actively defend them.

[@williams3631]

You made this subject more complicated than the thumbnail by a lot. You do this quite often . I'm not going to be like many of your commenters, because I'm older, sensible, and don't need any more guns(you and your constant giveaways). Just tell it straight up ! If I was there, I'd know who to shoot.

[@CodyG.]

They do indeed ramble on. I think we'd know who's bad if someone starts shooting. There's no way a good guy would start randomly shoot.

[@turn-n-burn1421]

The giveaways aren't exactly giveaways. Only after you join can you enter. That's not what I term a giveaway.

[@viralshark]

Its a clickbait title and thumbnail, which these days is standard to get hits on the video. Now imagine if all they did was say "yes" or "no", there would be no content for this video. The important thing here is that this video gets people thinking of these situations from all angles and aspects.

[@ChuckJansenII]

How would this be for a flow of decision in general for active shooter? 1. responsibility to to ensure the safety of your family. 2. identifying those who appear armed. 3. identify who the bad and bad guys are. 4. Do not fire if you cannot successfully complete 3. 5. Make sure you have a clear field of fire so no bystanders are hit in foreground or background. 6. Check all of the above and shoot the guy you know is the bad guy. 7. Clear scene to make sure threat is neutralized or eliminated or control suspect 8. Render aid to those wounded. 9. Call Lawyer. 10. Pray

[@Bill23799]

I am sure the shoppers and the Mall Cops at the Greenwood , Indiana Mall in July of 2022 were very happy that a third party saw it was his duty to stop a mass shooter at the Mall just two minutes after he began shooting innocent people. God bless Mr. Dicken for stopping what could have been a much more horrific day from becoming.

[@gw6496]

Yes I can, Self-defense. I was there from the start and know all the people involved.

[@GunSam]

Yes yes and yes, as long as the security cannot handle the situation and friendly fire isn't a thing. Morally and socially, you would be so wrong and disliked if you had the chance to stop someone's loved one from dying and you did nothing.

[@Followme556]

Friendly fire will sadly always be a thing that must be considered Sam. I have no doubt a guy like you would try to help, so would I. But it is worth seriously considering the fact that cops shoot armed citizens who are stopping felony crimes on a fairly routine basis.

[@Honestandtruth007]

@@Followme556 Sometimes Always SAD ending.... When police shoot A Good guy instead of the Criminal

[@Followme556]

@@Honestandtruth007 It is a far too common ending in modern America.

[@tikimurtaugh4919]

I carry to save my own life and that is it. If the possible outcome comes down to you dying or me going to prison for murder you are dying 100 percent of the time.

[@Followme556]

@@tikimurtaugh4919 Being an ex infantryman who took an oath, i'd TRY to help innocents, but I also realize that these situations are EXTREMELY chaotic, and it might not even be possible to help even if youre armed and want to.

[@orlando2814]

I’m gonna confess something. I’m a gun owner myself but I went on vacation to Spain for the last two weeks, and even tho the first two days I felt very weird and vulnerable without my Sig on me, I started to realize that over there, there is almost no gun culture. 7/100 residents own a gun and it’s for protection in your house, hunting or sports. I gotta tell ya’ll, it is a completely different vibe. It almost felt as something societies should strive for. And I understand their reality is not the same as ours, but goddamn it was refreshing.

[@beansbeans1000]

I can relate to that. Grew up in Scotland. No guns. No gun crime. Came to USA in 2000. Completely different ball game here. To call this the land of the FREE, where people are afraid to leave their homes because of fear is a bit backwards tbh. Big cities are just horrible places to be stuck in. Too much crime.

[@orlando2814]

@@beansbeans1000 it’s crazy right

[@barrybarlowe5640]

It's just fine till the government tells you you Must do something, even if it's immoral and unethical. Then, you're screwed.

[@geecrawdad]

Of course we should, ultimately, strive for heaven on earth. However, we live in a fallen world, and in the larger context of good vs. evil, the USA is on the front line against evil whereas most other nations are not. And that's relatively speaking. As a nation, we are far from perfect. Still, our history is testament to our overall goodness. The forces of evil have focused their effort on the USA for, once this country falls, would another country rise up or would the world fall into greater darkness for many years? I truly believe God founded this nation for a great providential purpose. Clearly, we have strayed and must get back on track. Even though citizens are not armed with F-16s, any administration inclined to establish a tyranny will need to factor in the "gun culture".

[@heightsofsagarmatha]

​@@beansbeans1000maybe try moving back to Scotland esp. big cities. Or Canada. If someone breaks into your house and threatens your life, you can go to jail for defending yourself in Canada.

[@bobwallace9814]

This same scenario played out here in Ft Worth a few months back. A churchgoer intervened and killed the shooter. He was deemed a hero.

[@vxy357]

In an active shooter situation, there is only one option: Take the guy out. This shouldn't even be a question.

[@pex_the_unalivedrunk6785]

Really, it comes down to any survivor's testimony in court. If the action one takes against an active shooter saves other innocent people's lives, any good judge & jury will take that into consideration...hopefully. If not...then there is seriously something wrong with our "criminal justice" system.

[@paulreeder5241]

"....any good judge & jury will take that into consideration..." Just consideration. Not a definite you aren't guilty.

[@jeffjones3752]

It is always a judgment call and you will have to live with what choice you make. If you choose to defend others you always risk the consequences to yourself. I found out long ago that in high stress situations you will not always do what you think you will do but you are very likely to do what you are trained to do...

[@Honestandtruth007]

Exactly Right

[@James225]

It's never wrong to do the right thing. Defending innocent people against evil is always the right.

[@cll1out]

Any time in any self defense (or defense of others) situation the best advice is to be absolutely sure of the situation by the time you decide to pull the trigger. This is hard, but it is important. With so much going on and adrenaline pumping, there is a lot of stress. There is a lot of room for mistakes but unfortunately people need to be held accountable for carelessness too otherwise we would have negligent shooters everywhere. Marksmanship skills and experience is very important and also knowing if you’re going to take the shot your bullet isn’t going to pass through the target and hit a bystander. In this situation if you’re new to conceal carry and not very experienced with firearms probably just get your family to safety until the attacker turns to you and it becomes life or death.

[@jamienice7173]

In that kind of situation.. You don't have "Time" to get your family out or think about those options. You identify the threat and react. If you're carrying..Your instinct reaction would be to eliminate the threat.

[@Honestandtruth007]

I think so too.... but in Reality Not Sure how going to React...

[@bakobassoprofundo]

Good stuff to think about. Anticipation is key. Run “what ifs” through your mind A LOT so you’re somewhat pre thinking what you should do. If you don’t know everything from the start, maybe using your weapon to get you and others to safety might make more sense. Running scenarios through your head repeatedly makes that decision come easier under stress.

[@USCCAOfficial]

Mental training is so important! Happy to hear you run through "what-if" scenarios in your head!

[@paulysixx5047]

It seems to me that these scenario's you are putting out can actually be doing more harm then good. Yes there are things to think about before you act, but it seems to me you are pushing USCCA through the back door to increase your membership and what you have to offer. If a crazy mad man comes to my church and opens fire I will react without hesitation I don't need permission from mans law, when I have God on my side to show me the right thing to do and if it means using my firearm to defend innocent law biding citizens I will do that.

[@Honestandtruth007]

I Really like your attitude and your integrity and your Faith...👍👍❤️💪💪

[@paulysixx5047]

I am a Christion and a former police officer. I truly believe if man would just obey the 10 commandments the world be a much better place. I ask a few questions to the USCCA asking how many of their instructors' if any were ever in a real shoot out, the answer was a typical answer from a lawyer who would not give me a straight answer. I have been in shootouts and the only thing i was worried about was stopping the person that was shooting at my fellow officers and my self. you do not have but a split second to react to save your life or some one else life when the shooting starts.

[@andrewschliewe6392]

But man and man's law is going to hold you accountable for your actions.

[@paulysixx5047]

​@@andrewschliewe6392 i would rather be judge for protecting lives then living my life knowing that people are dead because i did nothing.

[@alanmore4556]

@@paulysixx5047 Amen.

[@herberar]

There is a big problem not taken into consideration in this video. If you produce a gun in the middle of a confrontation, the security team might consider you as another active shooter.

[@MonacoMike]

The other risk you take is if there is a security person (or more) present you could be mistaken for a 'bad' person as well.

[@b767greg]

Some of the best advice I was given was "Sometimes it is better to be a good witness than a hero!" The scenario I always keep in my mind when in public with my concealed firearm is this; You may come upon someone pointing a firearm at someone, you draw and fire at that someone thinking you are saving a life, BUT...............that someone turns out to be an undercover police officer making an arrest! So unless I know for a FACT that the person I am about to draw on is definitively the bad guy, I am taking cover and extricating myself from the situation and intend to be a good witness. There are situations in my mind where it is obvious, then there are situations that are not. You have to make up your mind BEFORE hand which ones you are willing to get involved in. Just my opinion.

[@Edgar-kl6us]

But if you leave, then you cannot know if the person holding a weapon on another, is the good guy or the bad guy, … face it, you are just a coward for not sticking around, even if you have the means to find out, …

[@idaho5k736]

Thx for the content. Feel like your last two videos are very relevant considering the times we are living in.

[@silva777]

Misinformation. EVERYONE is a potential victim and should act against the shooter.

[@MadSUPANOVA]

This lawyer over thinks everything... irrationally. Get 2 lawyers on the show for 2 different viewpoints Think: A disgruntled Sam's Club former worker comes back to store... comes through doors just shooting people in her path appearing that she is headed to the office of her boss. Onlookers don't KNOW WHO she is after, but has a firearm SHOOTING. I'M IN THE STORE, I'M NOT THE INTENDED TARGET... BUT I'M CONCEALED... YOU TELL ME I'M NOT JUSTIFIED TO SHOOT

[@sinncier]

He is a lawyer, it's literally his job to overthink every scenario. That aside, I still thought he answered the questions unbias and humbly. You in fact are UNDERTHINKING. Because someone with your mindset does something like this: *Sees shooter firing a gun and says "i'm conceal carry, time to be a hero", engages shooter Also you: *Sees another shooter firing "must be the accomplice", shoots them too* Second shooter was another conceal carry trying to help

[@tombouman4485]

Excellent advice, so much to think about during an active shooter situation, whatever decisions we make will have extreme consequences. Carry on, these are topics of monumental importance. We need to think about these scenarios BEFORE they happen!

[@bobsbillets8863]

I have USCCA insurance. However, I have been hearing from alot of people that if you need to use the insurance and something doesn't go in your favor, USCCA will deny your coverage and will send you a bill for whatever their services cost. I have also heard that the other carry insurances that are out there DONT come after you if you loose your court battle. USCCA can you please clarify this so people can be well informed of this situation? Thanks on behalf of all your members!

[@Kudeghraw]

Hmm. That is some interesting information. USCCA can you answer this person's question? It's been 6 days. You know you read it.

[@geebee6010]

my Uncle uses US Law Shield. I don't know which one to pick.

[@Robisme]

Amazing. I would never have thought there would be a drill like this in a Church. I love how they included their kids too. Wouldn't that make Sundays more fun?

[@josephfdent]

if you're in the same room as an active shooter then you are potentially a target. Even if you're not in the same room, if you hear gun shots and are able to conclude that others are in danger then, if you can, you have a duty to engage with the shooter. That's just common sense

[@slypperyfox]

Our church doesn’t have a formal security team but we have about 20 of our congregation who conceal carry - many retired LEO.

[@SMJ0hnson]

It blows my mind that in this scenario they are advising you consider your legal standing above saving lives

[@golferpro1241]

Well if you don’t mind losing your home, your personal savings and years of stress in your life….well then go ahead.

[@soujrnr]

There is a LOT of great food for thought here. My wife and I attend church, and we live in a Constitutional carry state. We can carry concealed without a permit. I always have my gun with me at church. I also know that my church has a number of people who carry concealed, included a couple LEOs. We do not have a formal security team, and the topic of an active shooter in the church has never been discussed. I think in this day and age, it really needs to be discussed. It's sad, but it's reality. After watching this, I'm going to bring up the subject and see if we can get some procedure in place as to how to respond as best as we can. The questions you raised are excellent and have made me re-assess how I would respond were this to happen at my church. Thanks, guys!

[@wearblackclothes]

I've thought about this. Say you are driving past a school and see someone walking towards the school with a firearm in hand. U have to call ninty-one one but are you going to wait and see if children get shot?

[@robertmckinley2030]

It is a frightening thought that I could be mistaken as a bad guy shooter getting shot while simply defending myself (and other innocent people).

[@jimschmitz6192]

Missouri passed a law about 5 years ago that is intended to help security at our nuclear plant. The new law states that if there is jeopardy you are justified using deadly force. This is intended to clear up the question of defending others. It was enacted at the request of the utility in a situation where there was an apparently unarmed intruder that had crossed several barriers including signs and fences. I don’t think this law specified nuclear facilities but it made the word jeopardy the reason for defending yourself or others.

[@slowride1006]

I think in this situation be ready to draw your firearm but do not. Take the home invasion robbery steps of picking someplace where you know whats behind the person if they come at you with harm as their intend. Your firearm is your shield and using it to shield others while getting everyone out of the church while security engages with the shooter. Waiting to draw your gun will also help the security as well deterime who is a member of the attack because the security could just as easily mistake you for being someone your not. I have learned all this here from this channel! I really appreciate all the deep and fantastic but explained very simple and easy way to 7nderstand and for that I am grateful.

[@charlescarmichael1124]

I was a worship leader for several years and always armed. I had a unique view for the entire service and my mic was always on. If someone came in I was to immediately yell their location into the mic. “Gunman northeast exit!!” The security would immediately engage that area and go into a prearranged set of actions. If I had a shot I was instructed by our on site local cop to take the shot.

[@ChrisTopheRaz]

This is something I’ve though about before. I carry daily and I have been in convenience stores, and coffee shops on occasion where shady looking/acting characters were present. In one case a mentally disturbed kid in a Starbucks in Gilbert was sitting down tossing fists in the air at people including myself, for literally no reason. (Starbucks evacuated to the store, the cops were called and the kid was removed. Only later that same day to have a confrontation a mile away and get shot by a mesa police officer). My main point though, is what if you walk into a circle k and someone is holding up the clerk at gun point? That puts people in a very interesting position because with the assailants gun already drawn, you are at a disadvantage to even consider drawing, and you also don’t know for sure whether this assailant is planning to shoot the clerk or not. This might make a good topic for a video because convenience stores tend to have a lot of cases of armed robbery.

[@ThaWrongFong2050]

The correct answer is yes you CAN! IF and only IF your state has a law that states you are legally allowed to do so. Alot of states have a law in place that I can’t think of off the top of my head that protects you from criminal prosecution if you shoot someone in self defense if they are threatening someone and they are in fear for their life or great bodily injury.

[@heatheruntz5315]

I work at a grocery store and we aren't allowed to carry as employees there, but I do anyways. At work, they make us watch a respond to active shooter video once a month, and I often contemplate what I'd do in the situation. I think I would engage if the shooting was happening right in front of me or something, but if it was a situation where I was working and started hearing gun shots, I'm just going to get my ass out of there, I'm not going to put myself in the middle of it unless it's right in my face. I think getting out of there is the best recourse because I would lose my job, I could get shot by the shooter or responding law enforcement, and I could end up shooting an unintended target and end up in legal or financial trouble. So, I am not actively trying to engage the shooter unless I have no choice, I don't like my coworkers or customers enough to put my ass on the line for them like that.

[@bjdenil]

Absolutely. 1) you can defend a 3rd person 2) it is still self defence.

[@waltp.1173]

I live in New York state. I have a concealed carry. When you apply for the license, it says right on it that you don not have the right to self defense in New York.

[@kickgryhmez7015]

This is like asking if you're allowed to choose a killer a cops is engaged with at a mall that was just shooting people down. What even is this question? smoke the guy and inform police of CCW and call it a day. This question is insane to me and I live in New York.

[@dalerozendaal4902]

1St bad guy shoots his weapon, to harm and kill. Take bad guy out. 2nd Good guy stops threat. Pretty straight forward.

[@mjnc3672]

Would like to have seen them analyze the Texas church shooting in Dec 2019. The perp came into the church service, which was live streaming. He pulled a sawed off shotgun from under a long coat and immediately got off 2 shots killing 2 men. A retired deputy sheriff who was armed shot and killed the shooter with a single shot.

[@tyronedavis307]

The guy in the blue is legally incorrect. For most states, if you reasonably believe that yourself or someone in your immediate vicinity is a victim of death or grave bodily harm you have the right to protect life. In the event that an innocent person is struck by your gun fire this would still be on the person that committed the original felony. This is known as the "But For" rule in most states.

[@jamesp9226]

This lawyer is OBVIOUSLY correct. If there is an active shooter situation and you see someone shooting, it could be the active shooter or CCL holder shooting at the active shooter. You need to at least make sure you’re 100% clear before you start shooting.

[@bobsacamano8187]

You have to be right. You can absolutely defend a third party with the same amount of force THEY could use to defend themselves. But, you better be right, if you shoot the wrong person, it’s on you. The part about your family being with you is a good consideration too. If you stop the bad guy, no problem. If you don’t, you and everyone in your immediate area is going to start taking fire.

[@carsonf4428]

Something else to think about. There may be other "Good Guys" with guns in the vicinity. One you present your firearm, you may be seen as a threat as well.

[@Unsub223]

I feel answer to the question is almost relevant to the rate of fire. If the person is coming in and shooting at one person or shooting one person it’s a little bit different than somebody coming in and mowing down the whole crowd trying to cause as much damage as they could(shooting as fast as they can)

[@claythomas7982]

I can't believe this question is even worth asking. You shoot to stop the threat REGARDLESS OF THE TARGETED PERSON.

[@garianperugini3408]

Missed an important point in the discussion. Just as police don’t want a civilian helping in an active shooter because they don’t know if you are a good guy or bad guy. The church security team, unless they personally know you, they mistake you for a second shooter. Not sure I’m pull mg my weapon under that scenario. 7:00

[@johnlynch215]

I am not on my church security group, which are retired police and they know I concealed carry. I am a retired Navy security, and retired TDCJ officer from high security prisons. I would pull my weapon to give my family and friends cover while they moved for cover or out of the room. I would only engaged in the shooting if the attacker moved into my area or turned to my direction. Direct threat.

[@johnbrazell2433]

An active shooter walks in to a church service. After choosing his best position to kill as many people as possible and get out as fast as possible he takes a set. After a few minutes he stands up and opens fire. Suddenly he is shot in the head and drops dead. The active shooter is now the victim and WHOMEVER shot him is going to prison for murder. This is how our legal system works. This knowledge gives the prospective 'active shoots' even more power because they know they are more likely to succeed at their objective because it is less likely that someone will actually be willing to interfere for fear of going to prison and they (active shooter) will just walk away.

[@alexandertheresurrection2810]

If I’m conceal carrying out at the mall with my wife and kid, and an active shooter comes out, my first response would be to get my wife and kid to safety or seeks place to hide while I cover for them armed and ready. As selfish as it may sound, I’m not a super hero and I’m not gonna pretend like I am and save the day. Unless I got an absolute good shot and 100% identify the threat, maybe I’ll take a chance. But unless you got LEGIT combat training or experience such as military vet, off duty or retired law enforcement or any other like it, I would never recommend actively seeking out and engage the shooter to save everyone. You do what you can to survive. And if you’re face to face with an active shooter, and there’s no other option. Do what you need to do to survive.

[@coosabass4934]

Good discussion, very thought provoking. Not every situation is clear cut.

[@melsop54]

I'm no legal expert by any measure...but I'm gonna go out on a branch and say if someone is posing an active deadly threat to those around you...you shoot. You BETTER make SURE you know you are aiming at the bad guy, and you BETTER be sure of what is happening, but you shoot.

[@stevenfrancisco6576]

In many states, the legal standard for use of force in defense of others is that you can legally use the same level of force the person you are defending could legally use in the situation.

[@101Navyseals]

You got to remember that if they want you to go to trial then 12 people will determine if you were justified in your actions. So if a dude is shooting up a mall and you dump the dude then yeah the family of the shooter is gonna say that you “murdered” their family member but 12 jury members would 99/100 times say you were acting in the best interests of the people at the mall.

[@sethbarnes7608]

For me, I feel like if I'm there by myself, and it's clear and apparent who the bad guy is, then I'd most certainly engage. However, if I'm there with family, my sole concern would be their protection. My goal would be simply to get them out safely, and thus, I would likely not engage directly, unless it was absolutely necessary, as I wouldn't want to be drawing fire towards them.

[@chrismallios1621]

@Seth Barnes You are a very smart and conscious gentleman. You have my best wishes and regards. I wish there were more people like you. May God bless you and all your loved ones.

[@michaell1665]

In a situation when there is no doubt of who is the bad guy, such as an active shooter situation, I would have no problem trying to step in. However, one has to be careful when it is not obvious who the bad guy is. 3rd party defense seems to be a tricky situation.

[@nancymills1884]

The first thing that caught my attention is a security team at a church. However, I was involved in a situation where 2 angry young men demanded to see the pastor and kept the parishioners from leaving the building. After that experience I found I couldn’t attend the church because the pastor made light of the situation. I’m now accepting that anywhere and everywhere can be an active shooter situation.

[@stephenmorring3370]

The simple answer is "no". That means if someone is attacking my toddler with a metal pipe, I can't intervene with deadly force.

[@Diandredofus]

This discussion is moot? This isn't a 1v1 gun duel in the old west. An active shooter shoots indiscriminatly. You're not intervening in a gun fight, You're are protecting yourself.

[@keithhinke3277]

It makes sense to shoot. If you just stand there and watch, I'm pretty sure the shooter will get around to you. So, it's self- defense if the attacker is randomly shooting people as you are a random person, and the sooner the better, gives you more time for situational awareness and a steady shot if you're not the immediate target.

[@scottbarlow7187]

One shot, one kill. The man knew what he was doing. Watch and listen to the man that pulled that off... I believe he saved life’s that day..

[@Rowgue51]

The short answer is that self defense law almost without exception allows the use of deadly force in defense of others. But any time you pull the trigger and take someone else's' life you are putting yourself in legal jeopardy. You are almost certainly going to end up in front of a jury and having to defend your actions. You better be damn sure you know exactly what is happening when you make that decision, and even then it's not a guarantee that you're not going to be the one that ends up facing the prospect of going to prison.

[@GizmoGuy620]

You should absolutely be able to engage an active shooter because "you know not when they will point at you". "Better to be judged by twelve..."

[@GamingwithGamerGirls]

We live in a very sick, strange, messed up time. Every day that passes seems to bring another bout of insanity. What level of evil and wickedness will it take for us to start making change?

[@michaeljedd9359]

4:55 So how does this work? Security guard pulls Jesus’s finger, his leg lifts up, and an AR pops out from under his sandal. lol, just trying to lighten the mood.

[@sliphstream4927]

So basically... Properly assess the situation and use good judgement. Your actions could make the situation better or worse. That is the responsibility of eveyone who choses to unholster their firearm with the intent to engage an active situation.

[@danielstevenson1250]

In my state if a deadly felony is taking place,and you do nothing,you are now an accomplice.

[@jimmybutler1379]

YES TO STOP THE ACTIVE SHOOTER CASE !...

[@tooslow4065]

the bigger question would be, if you were in that building with an active shooter, but you DIDN'T do anything, could you be held accountable for all the people that died, but you could have possibly saved?