Can you tell if someone is gay from their voice? ft. The Fitness Marshall

[@stynkanator]

If you are gay and reading this embrace your authentic voice!

[@larrykillensworth]

😊😊😊❤️

[@bille8248]

yes sir 💅

[@marklouis1890]

Exactly

[@Fr0zenPeanut]

The first time I heard a recording of myself I wanted to kms. I was bullied relentlessly for my gay voice until I trained myself to sound straight.

[@michaelmarian9987]

🤡

[@Mercuie]

I can't hear my gay voice unless it's played back to me. When I was growing up I was constantly harassed about my voice. But to me I sounded like all the other guys. It was really hard to "fix" because I couldn't hear it. Everyone knew I was gay before I did because of my gay voice. Which I assumed I picked up because all my friends were girls. During my short time as a content creator when most of my friends were straight guys, I know a lot of my gay voice muted itself. I didn't notice me doing it I could just hear it in the playback when editing. Now I have a more varied group of friends and one of my closeted friends mocks my voice as being really gay. I still don't hear it. To me I still sound like every other guy unless I hear my voice played back. Now that I'm 41 I can honestly say I don't really care what I sound like. I live in very rural Oregon and so I do bring my voice down in stores and such, but that's for my safety. I'm very shy and I can't fight. I don't need the drama.

[@carolinecordelia]

I'm so sorry to hear that you can't just be yourself just because of what place you live. I don't even know where it is, but I hate that people can't leave people alone, it's not like you just woke up one day and made a choice to be gay, it's how you were born, and people should accept that and hope that you find love and happiness with the person you like.

[@clarity7577]

I have the same issue. In my head the voice I hear sounds like any other guy and I don't recognize my own voice when it's recorded.

[@littlebirdwalking950]

Lol “I’m not gay, it’s just a Canadian accent” 😂

[@notsparks]

I used that ages ago, "I'm not gay, I'm British!"

[@bobDotJS]

As a straight guy, I've always wanted to know the answer to this but I've never felt comfortable asking

[@lucthin6245]

There is a gay accent, but there are straight men who give off gay vibes but are straight men. Shawn Mendes & James Corden who are straight but give off gay vibes.

[@janx8695]

I would say it's probably due to differences in their brains that are more female-typical than most straight guys. They have have quite a number of similarities to most straight women(and lesbians to most straight guys) so the way they express themselves in some traits and emotions may be more female-typical. When I say more female-typical I mean on average gay men are more like most females in gender traits than are most males who are more male-typical. This includes being androsexual like most females, whereas lesbians are gynosexual like most males, which makes gay men and lesbian women gender atypical. When sperm fertilizes an egg at conception, the baby will be either female or male. This biology will influence hormonal exposure in the womb, as well as the child’s resulting gender identity. At about seven weeks, if the embryo is male, the testes will begin to secrete testosterone, masculinizing the brain. If the embryo is female, this process does not occur. This exposure to testosterone has a powerful effect on the ways in which male and female brains grow before the brain has finished developing in the utero. Testosterone exposure alters the programming of neural stem cells responsible for brain growth, leading to differences between the sexes. Whether a person gravitates toward traits that are considered masculine or feminine is driven by biology. Gendered interests are predicted by testosterone exposure in utero. Higher levels are associated with male-typical interests and behaviours, regardless of whether the baby is male or female. These include a preference for mechanically interesting objects and systemizing occupations in adulthood. Lower levels are associated with a preference for people orientated activities and occupations. stemming from evolutionary roots. Women. who are tasked with the role of bearing children, evolved to be more sociable, empathic, and people focused, while men, as hunter-gatherers, were rewarded for strong visuopatial skills and ability to build and use tools. That's why science, technology, engerneering and mathematics fields on average tend to be dominated by men. Research suggests, If testosterone levels during a critical prenatal period are high , the brain is organized in such a way that the person is predisposed to become typically masculine in a variety of gendered traits, including sexual attraction to females. If testosterone levels are low during that same time period, the brain is organized in such a way that the person is predisposed to become typically feminine in gendered traits, including sexual attraction to males. It's believed that gay men, during some point in fetal life, were exposed to unusually low levels of andrgens, which allowed their hypothalamic circuits to develop in a female-typical direction. Either the hormones themselves are present at different levels, being unusually low in fetuses destined to become gay men and unusually high in fetuses destined to become lesbian women, or else the receptors and other cellular mechanisms that respond to the hormones are different. Bisexuality might result from intermediate levels of testosterone. On average though gender non-conforming people are more likely to be homosexual. To some extent, homosexuality is part of a package of mental traits, many of which can be considered gender-variant or gender non conformist, whereas heterosexuality is part of a package of gender-typical or gender conformist. Large scale studies have documented very sizeble and statistically significant shifts in gender-typed behaviours of pre-gay children, both boys and girls, compared with pre-straight children of the same sex. Neuroscientific studies have shown that the brains of lesbians are partially masculinized and gay mens partially feminized. Patterns of brain organisation appear similar between gay men and heterosexual women and between lesbian women and heterosexual men. Gay men appear, on average, more “female typical” in brain pattern responses and lesbian women are more “male typical”. Differences in brain organisation mean differences in psychology and study after study show differences in cognition between heterosexual and gay people. Gay mens brains are also structured like those of heterosexual females and lesbians structured similar to heterosexual mens. Gay differences are are reflected in our psychology and the ways we relate to others. Gay men and lesbians are gender shifted in a variety of male favoring-visuospatial traits such as mental rotation, targeting, and navigation, as well as female-favouring tasks such as verbal fluency and object location memory. Boys, are typically exposed to higher levels of testosterone in the womb, and tend to gravitate toward mechanical toys and mechanically interesting activities, like playing with wheeled toys, trucks and related occupations in adulthood. and being sexually attracted to women upon reaching puberty. A boy who is exposed to lower levels of is more likely to be female-typical when he is born, gravitating toward toys and activities that girls prefer, since girls are also generally exposed to lower levels of testosterone. He will also be sexually attracted to men in adulthood. Testosterone is needed to “masculinize” a prenatal brain; if that doesn’t happen, the child will grow up to desire men. The same can be said for girls who experience high levels of testosterone exposure. As shown in girls with congenital adrenal hyperplasia, even if their parents give them more encouragement for playing with dolls, they will still prefer toys typical to boys because greater exposure to testosterone in utero is associated with male-typical interests. Rough-and-tumble play, which is behavior typically seen in little boys, is less common in gay men and more common in lesbian women, due to lesser and greater masculinization of the brain. Childhood gender nonconformity refers to sex-atypical behaviours, interests, hobbies, activity levels, and play partner preferences before the age of 12. 75% of boys demonstrating CGN will grow up to be gay or bisexual due to the prenatal environment and the extent to which hormones masculinized the developing brain. Brains that are exposed to lower levels of testosterone are more efficient at empathizing. Girls show a preference for socially engaging activities and occupations. Pre gay children are gender nonconformists in a variety of traits, including phyisical aggressivness, engagement in rough and tumble play and sports, interest and peers they prefer the company of. Gay men and lesbians can also have gender shifted occupational preferences and also in instrumentailty, empathy, expressivness, and aesthetic/technological interests. No one is 100% male typical or 100% female typical and not all straight people are completely gender typical either. I'm talking more in general terms as a great deal of diversity is present in homosexual men and women as there is among heterosexual people. Generally though gay men are shifted in a female direction compared with straight men, and lesbians are shifted in a male direction compared with straight women. These are only shifts and not complete gender reversals, and they don't affect every gender trait. Gay men have at least some gender atypical traits(some more than others) but few have the entire package. Gay people remain gender typical in a variety of traits, especially those related to sexuality, such as their interest in casual sex. Gay men and straight men seem to be exactly the same in terms of arousal patterns, pupil dilation, activity in the brains reacting to erotic visual stimuli show they react the exact same, just to difference sexes. Men seem more inclined to be all or nothing.. meaning really into men and not into women(homosexual) or really into women and not into men(heterosexual). Men typically display significantly greater physiological responses to sexual stimuli depicting members of their preferred gender category and stated sexual orientation. These findings are in line with other research suggesting that some aspects of the neurological organization of male sexual arousal are independent of sexual orientation, and therefore expressed similarly in heterosexual and homosexual men. Stimulus features necessary to evoke genital arousal are much less specific in women than in men. Men's genital arousal is dependent upon stimulus features specific to their sexual interests. Similarly not all straight people are completely gender typical either. A study found that a minority of straight people share a predisposing factor with gay people of the same sex. It's lkely this predisposing factor is one that predicts gender nonconformity in childhood and/or in adulthood. It has been hypothesized that homosexuality results from inhereting a set of several feminizing genes. If this hypothesis is correct, the straight men who share a predisposing factor with gay men might be those who have inherited some of these feminizing genes, but not enough to make them gay.

[@mattybrunolucaszeneresalas9072]

⁠@@lucthin6245no there isn’t and no they don’t

[@mattybrunolucaszeneresalas9072]

Why though? What does voice have to do with which gender you are attracted to?

[@mattybrunolucaszeneresalas9072]

@@janx8695female typical? Enough with the testosterone hormone feminised genes (which doesn’t make sense) theory. It’s all nonsense. Some people have different tastes in who to date. It’s as simple as that

[@ashleyfoss3788]

Lesbian here ✌️☺️ Before I came out, I tended to mask with a higher pitch (to varying degrees) to sound more like the other girls. Since coming out, I find my natural tone is a little lower...it's a more comfortable & less timid vibe. 😎

[@janx8695]

lol yes we forget sometimes that many lesbians go through the same as many feminine gay in terms of trying to fit in more with other girls. I'm a straight female and I have one older brother and 4 younger sisters. On of my sisters is a lesbian. When we were kids she was always more male-typical than me or my other sisters(who were more feminine) and was more into boys toys and her friends at elementary school were mostly boys. I always loved barbies and I never forget one christmas she asked for some action-men, and I was super stoked I could use them as boyfriends for my barbies lol...She tried so hard to fit in with the rest of us when we'd be talking about boys and stuff but you could tell her heart wasn't in it. I never really thought she was a lesbian(just because it didn't cross my mind) but when she come out to us when she was about 17 it just made perfect sense. She's still with the same partner that she was with when she came out. They have two sons which they both had one each using the same sperm donor.. they are absolutely stunning boys.

[@dyld921]

Greg's "straight voice" sounds like Lumpy Space Princess

[@matthewmacias8995]

Lmaoooo

[@freyialilian]

Yes!

[@Daaaaaan]

Oh my glob!

[@TheAncientAmbassador]

💀

[@camerond.blackwell7493]

Oh my glob, that is so true.

[@CalloohCalley]

I grew up in Atlanta Ga, and there's a great LGBTQ+ community there. But the SECOND I saw somebody from my church or my family I instantly change my voice. And I don't notice I'm doing it. I just feel like, in my body I consciously calm my energy down. I mute myself. Which causes my voice to change. To me it's a muting of energy.

[@mattybrunolucaszeneresalas9072]

??

[@Taima]

Just listening to these guys as a straight man I find they sound the most straight when they're speaking quieter/more calmly. Like when they're in between thoughts/thinking and have that lower pitch and drop some of the higher end stuff. Greg (I think that's the first dude's name) is almost incapable of hiding it though, which is hilarious. Second guy is definitely closest to both looking and sounding straight compared to the others.

[@camerond.blackwell7493]

Code switching to the extreme.

[@CalloohCalley]

@@camerond.blackwell7493 That's EXACTLY what is it! I do the same thing when I go from Spanish to English! There's just a different energy :) that is code switching.

[@TieDyeShyGuy]

I'm a straight man who has many gay friends, and it takes effort for me to make the gay voice. So no, most straight men are not making their voices deeper on purpose. I doubt my gay friends would judge me based on my voice. I assumed gay men were purposely making their voices higher. I also have gay female friends and their voices are more masculine. After watching this I think everyone get's their voice from the people around them the most, and we all unconsciously make our voices deeper and higher depending on who we are around and the situation. We all have a work voice, a social voice, and so on.

[@drewmungus5841]

I think this is the one. I'm bisexual and always had a fairly deep "straight" voice (I only know this because people were shocked to find out I'm dating a man) but now that I've been dating a gay man for over a year, I've noticed the way I talk changing. I've always adapted to talking like the people around me, so now I'm picking up on his terms and mannerisms and I feel like it's becoming more "obvious" that I'm gay haha. I do think SOME of it is natural but social influence is a huge part. Groups develop subcultures, and subcultures have language and accents of their own. And gay men tend to hang with more women and lesbians with more men than their straight counterparts, which may be a factor to their voice pitch too.

[@artimist0315]

A study shows that though the vocal organs are identical between boys and girls before puberty, boys tends to have on have deeper voices. I'd assume it mostly a cultural things, if you are mostly trying to fit with your girl friends you will have a different normes and therefore speak and act differently from if you grow up in a predominantly masculine environment. That's probably why a good amount of gay men don't have a gay voice and why some men who sound gay are perfectly straight. We as a specie naturally learn by imitating our peers to learn the social norms, and therefore who you are surrounded by while learning your speech influence how you end up sounding. I don't think that masking is something every guy experience but it's definitely not something exclusive to the gay community. Every men face some sort of injunction to masculinity at some point in their life, wether it's explicitly explained to them or implicitly understood, and some guys just naturally talk in a more feminine manner, because they were mostly raised by and around females. Personally I have been masking because my natural speech sound more feminine as I didn't have a father figure growing up, but since my friends growing up where predominantly straight guys and that I was never part of the gay community, I don't "talk gay" when around gay people, it just doesn't sound natural to me in any way, and I actually find it a bit unnatural hearing gay speech and I prefer the way I sound when masking as it sound more how I originally wanted to sound

[@eliaspohl5741]

Im 100% straight but i have heard from other people that i give bi vibes, i don't really have the gay voice, but i also don't have the straight voice😂 Idk i never cared about fitting in, so my natural voice is something im between.

[@HappySmilingDog-d7u]

Lol, almost the same except when i passed out i frenched a dude with gay vibes. Totally didnt remember that, but im bi-questioning now…

[@drewmungus5841]

​@HappySmilingDog-d7u does seem like a sign 😅 the beauty of being bi is that you can still have all your preferences, and you can still only date women if you want. It's just an openness to dating whoever you vibe with, and for me it's been incredibly freeing. I figured out my preference is just for femininity, intelligence, and unique presentation, so obviously that gave me a preference for women but I ended up with a feminine gay man that I couldn't be happier with. I liked having more options because I'm very picky haha, and now I have an amazing future with the perfect partner to look forward to

[@HappySmilingDog-d7u]

@@drewmungus5841 this is way complex for me, im jus a lil gay XD like 5%

[@eliaspohl5741]

@drewmungus5841 Aww, I'm happy for you, I'm also in the best relationship ever, so I get it ❤️❤️

[@Jayjay28285]

@@drewmungus5841 thank you so much for posting this. my experience is so similar as a bi man and i look for those same things in a fem partner.

[@melbournewolf]

I forgot to finish that last thought... I am 58, HIV+, hedonist to the Nth degree. I'm proud to have been inspired by the generation of guys before mine - the ones who were 18 when I was born, like my uncle Jimmy and his husband, my uncle Colin, who were inside my family group through marriage once removed. I'm incredibly proud to have carried that spirit of defiance with me through my entire life...once I put it all together. I never thought I would have any impact, want looking for any either. Found out I changed an entire community just buy being me - I got told about by two of my younger brothers' classmates. They looked me up through him and told me. They first came to the same high school in my last year there. You two are doing am AMAZING job of keeping the children informed of their history, our culture and our "take" on being men.

[@jadapinkett1656]

Your hedonism gave you HIV.

[@moriordan85]

What do you mean "spirit of defiance"?

[@EarthJeremy]

4min16seconds.... "Uh, yeah, I don't mean to change on purpose..." I'm turning 50 this year, but until I was 26, I never knew that I changed my voice in ONE PARTICULAR SITUATION. My b/f at the time pointed out that my voice "drops an octave" when I'm ordering fast food through the drive-thru!! To this day, it's known as, "My Ordering Voice." ;) Hilarious. Great topic. ALSO, let me say this. I came out in 1992 and used to speak on Human Sexuality panels here in Southern California for PFLAG. In those early years, the classrooms could be quite hostile with their questions. In one forum class with a couple hundred students, I was on the panel with a PFLAG parent, another gay guy and two lesbians. One of the students stood up and made the statement that he would never know I was gay by the way I spoke or dressed if I wasn't on the panel compared to the other gay panel member. HE MEANT THAT AS A COMPLIMENT. I responded to him by telling him that I realize what his point was, but that my choice to date, and my respect for other gay guys in the community always gravitated toward the "gay voice" because they couldn't necessarily hide who they were and be closeted even if they weren't out of the closet; because they dealt with a level of bullying and persecution that the rest of us could silently get away with, if we chose to. My opinion on this matter hasn't changed in 2024.

[@danielparkinson3691]

There are also 2 major reasons for gay voice that have nothing to do with interactions with other gays. 1) Motor pathways (in the brain) impact speech and gay men are more likely to have less masculinized motor pathways. This is evident in how gay men move as well (dancing, throwing). Just like sexual orientation, these pathways are mostly established in utero. 2) There is unconscious modeling during early language acquisition, and gay male toddlers and children are more likely to choose female role models (both consciously and unconsciously) which is also due to certain brain pathways that are somewhat more feminized compared to straight men.

[@notsparks]

I found Caleb's take on finding acceptance close to my own story. I was a very closeted, nerdy, mormon kid, I was also incredibly shy and horrified at public speaking. I became editor and chief of my high school literary magazine senior year, and it was a pretty clique type activity I didn't really fit in with during my junior year. I suddenly had to speak, daily, in front of the class, and I don't know how it happened but I suddenly didn't care what anyone else thought about me. I came out to my family, many of my friends, and just began being authenticly myself. I started to ditch the nerdy and change my appearance, and found that being my honest self was empowering as hell.

[@goblinb]

I'm surprised 'upspeak' wasn't mentioned, which you guys totally do BTW ;D, which also may have come from southern California Valley Girls. And speaking of southern California, it cracked me up when you were talking about walking around L.A.; there is a song by Missing Persons called Walking In L.A.(in which they say that 'Nobody walks in L.A.!). The song always goes through my head whenever I have actually walked in L.A., especially when I was walking through West Hollywood.

[@wilhelm-z4t]

Clearly, "gay voice" is an affectation and not something innate. For whatever reason most people, but not everyone, inherently want to "fit in" with their respective peer group. So, they consciously or subconsciously adopt the group's modes of speaking, slang, mannerisms, fashions, viewpoints and what-have-you. I have a coworker who was sent by our employer to Australia for three years. When she returned, she had a heavy Australian accent which rather astounded me. At first, I didn't even recognize her and wondered who she was. I guess she was part chameleon. If I had gone to Australia, I rather doubt I'd have returned talking like that. By the way, I do like the general Australian accent, but hers was out-of-this-world. Made me wonder if she spent all her time in the Outback.

[@epaminon6196]

I find the idea that gay voice isn't an innate quality of some gay men and women doubtful. Sure, some accents can be acquired by people over the years but gay voice is too much of a coincidence - too much of a consistent pattern in some gay individuals. Like those unfortunate souls that had to grow up in a conservative and prejudiced time and place. They would not want others to find out about their true sexual orientation but their voice would give it away without their conscious intent. It stands to reason that gay voice is an innate neural symptom of some people's queerness, so to speak.

[@zoicon5]

I am definitely part chameleon. I pick up the speech patterns of whoever I'm talking to. I have an elderly aunt who grew up in the upper midwest, and by the end of a long phone conversation with her I am starting to sound like Sarah Palin. And I don't even realize it unless someone points it out to me. The biggest challenge is when I'm talking to someone who stutters. I have to really focus or else I'll start to stutter too which would be very rude.

[@stepharcnciel]

I’m surprised there was no mention of nasality for gay voice. Bc I feel like that’s something I clock the most

[@dantan1249]

It’s the high placement with the low tone. They talk as if they are gonna speak higher but use lower frequencies.

[@awesomelife3710]

I gotta be honest: 99% of the time, including here, when I hear a guy say he’s masculine, has a masculine voice or passes, I think, “Girl, you must be tone deaf!” The only times I’ve come across gay guys that are actually masculine, sound truly masculine and pass for straight: they’re the ones that never mention it.

[@jnbg61584]

Sometimes I think it’s partly the person and where on the queer spectrum they are. Like the more “effeminate” you are, the more “gay” you may sound. Edited to add, the more you may act as well. More free flowing, less rigid and stiff in movements. In the celebrity world, I think of men like Matt Bomer as the “didn’t know were gay unless they told you” type of person, or the “passing as straight”. I’ve heard from people in the black community who use the term “code switching”, where they put on a persona or accent to fit in better. I’m white but didn’t grow up with people who look like me, so I may not sound like I “should” as times. I have used AAVE growing up, and still do. That’s not me putting on anything or taking from anyone, appropriating anything, it’s just how I talk when I’m comfortable with people. When I’m in a professional environment or with people I don’t know, I will use proper grammar and such. When I’m around my friends and people I’ve known for awhile, of any background, I can be a bit more lax with it. I used quotes because it’s all a spectrum and generalizations. People can be whoever and act however they want to be and it shouldn’t matter one bit

[@LukaszSebastian]

I'm totally gay and I can't even emulate the gay voice...

[@EarthJeremy]

I am 100% gay and 1/2 Asian. I can imitate just about every type of voice or accent after hearing it, I but do THE WORST Asian accent of anyone I know!

[@davidadams2395]

It has always sounded put-on when I try to emulate a gay voice.

[@zcythegeist]

As a gay guy growing up with straight guys. I always put on the gay voice around females for them not to be intimidated when I approach them.

[@michaelmarian9987]

🤡🤡

[@kokitsunetora]

There's a gay accent in Japanese, it's very similar to English

[@marklouis1890]

I wasn't aware

[@crazystart8581]

There's a very emotionally conservative culture attached to masculinity in the Japanese culture that I've been exposed to. So it's similar in that way I'd bet.

[@Fr0zenPeanut]

Nothing surprising about that. The gay voice exists among speakers of all languages.

[@MrC0MPUT3R]

@@Fr0zenPeanut Yeah, there's a gay voice in Swedish too and it follows the same patterns as english where it follows women's speech patterns.

[@imetwurld-ey9sx]

Stereotypes stereotypes stereotypes​@@MrC0MPUT3R

[@greyecologyst4694]

It's pretty obvious that at least one of the genes that influences homosexuality is also associated with gay voice. What I find disturbing is that if you don't have gay voice or fall on the lower end of expression for that trait you're considered to have some kind of internalized homophobia. There's an increasing trend towards exclusivity in the gay community and cultural enforcement that there is only one way to be gay.

[@Manx36]

I work under the understanding that I’m not the problem and I’ve got being me down to a science and being me doesn’t entail doing or liking what anyone else wants. I don’t know most things a lot of gay guys know, I’m not crazy about whoever the latest pop princess is, just zero interest in most things you are told you need to be interested in to get your gay card stamped at the door.

[@shawnbay2211]

Throughout my teenage years I was very insecure about my gay voice. I didn’t feel like I could b attractive & I couldn’t fit in. Now, i genuinely find sounding gay very attractive. My voice has gotten lower since then so now i gay it up. I have other things about my voice that makes me sound different from every1 but I was so pleased & surprised that a lot of ppl love it.

[@BrantAxt]

References to the studies: 11:40 - gay guys have pitch variation vs straight guys have jitter 14:45 - do gay men just copy women in their lives? 16:40 - differences in pronouncing the letter 's' 25:45 - Selective adoption model to signal sexuality to others 28:10 - Lesbian voice exists, but is less noticeable 30:29 - most studies say it's a learned behavior 31:05 - testosterone was not an influential variable 33:35 - black female and black queer lingo influence 46:45 - "sounding smart" by articulation and speed of speech 47:45 - a lot of "gaydar" is mannerisms, not just voices 56:12 - summary of studies

[@jonahwieber5070]

You also have to take into account polyglots who subconsciously mimic tonality and accents of people around them.

[@bille8248]

This makes me feel so better about how my voice has evolved and even on a daily basis how it changes depending on the situation. :)

[@crazystart8581]

I have had so many arguments in the comments with people hating on gay voice. Particularly saying that its purposeful. When in reality its really about speach development and the adherence to traditional concepts masculinity or femininity. And its actually homophobic misogyny why we clock gay men for this and wholly ignore gay woman. Its specifically targeting femininity. Also, i think theres a conversation to be had about the differences between a gay voice and a gay accent or even dialects.

[@IsraelLlerena]

It’s so interesting how straight men can almost always do the gay voice but gay men try and usually fail at doing the straight voice. I have gay voice too and cannot for the life of me ever be able to change the way I talk. So I’m always surprised at how people can mask their voices so well. Mine always comes out the same so I don’t even try to change it.

[@Fr0zenPeanut]

I was bullied because of my gay voice so much that I recorded myself and practiced until I developed a straight-sounding voice. It was a lot of work; it took me almost 2 years, but it was worth it and now I'm much more confident when I talk to people.

[@IsraelLlerena]

@@Fr0zenPeanut thats so interesting. Talking is so second nature that I can see why it would take almost 2 years! For me when I was younger I think it was so embarrassing that I started talking in a more soft voice since projecting it would’ve made even more people catch on, which ultimately made my sound even more feminine and softer lmao. But I’m glad you’re able to have gained confidence!

[@IsraelLlerena]

@@Fr0zenPeanut so is your voice still something you have to put on, or does it just come out naturally now? So curious !

[@waitasecond3]

Loved this conversation and the science you brought to it. Found it so interesting to see how the science, personal experiences, and culture all mesh together :) Another great episode!

[@ScarletDeath]

code switching is an autonomous psychodrama in the theater of the illusion of safety but it's not necessarily a 'forced performance.' for instance, if we had an isolated island full of gays who have never heard other gays speak, the affectations might not culminate in the way you'd expect.

[@MT--WesleyCrumblebee]

Straight man here. Two of my best friends are gay and I can 'out-gay' both of them. The best test is to just have them yell at a barking dog to get inside.

[@Manx36]

I can not deal with someone playing a persona. Too many guys try to make being gay their entire personality and they become a character of a stereotypical effeminate man. There are people who are gay who speak softly, not aggressively and it’s natural and it’s real but then there are dudes putting on an act to play a role and it gets to be a lot after awhile if it feels inauthentic. I’ve had people try pull me into doing the gay voice when we are in a gay setting but they won’t do it at the counter getting a slice but when we go outside it’s, girl and I’m not doing that because that’s not who I am. Being gay should never be cosplay, like a costume you wear.

[@Maincourse19]

I don’t agree with this perspective. It’s very natural to have your guard up in an unfamiliar setting; to change mannerisms. This includes being more reserved with thoughts and modes of speaking. It goes for most interactions in life. As trust grows with the individual, so does the genuine self come out. You can visualize it as faces. I see it as levels of trust and everyone having a guard. It’s an adaptive protective function for normal human interactions. This is very basic human psychology. Not everyone is a safe person to be your authentic self and certain levels of trust need to be earned.

[@fToo]

what about false positives?! there are some guys that I assumed for ages were gay (because of their voice) ... and then found out that they're straight ... very confusing!

[@ianbabineau5340]

Regardless of how natural the whole gay voice thing is, you CAN train your voice to be different in a variety of ways. So you can learn to have a gay voice, or to no longer have a gay voice. Actors take similar coaching and training to learn to hide an unwanted accent or to mimic a desired accent.

[@timothyxosullivan]

Such an amazing topic. It has been discovered that there is a greater percentage of gays in the neuro diverse community. There is also an emotional content here, gay men are more relaxed in showing their emotions whereas straight men are more likely to hide their emotions. This may also affect the gay voice. Another thing I have noticed is that men who can sing in very high registers tend to be gay. Also when you find your tribe as gay you will copy communication traits of your tribe. For me, I am a bi man and married to the same lady for 43 years, but very difficult to be monogamous.

[@TheMAV777]

I’m gay, and I’m out, out to my family & work & everywhere. I get a lot of people who tell me they can’t tell I’m gay because I don’t “sound or act gay.” I’m not sure if they’re trying to compliment me but I think that’s a ridiculous thing to tell someone. I don’t try to be this way, it’s just how I am. I don’t try to sound deeper, or dumber to create a straight sound, but I actually have a few gay friends who are like me. We do fem out when we are joking amongst each other but that’s more of an act than when we are ourselves. However, when I see myself on a video or hear myself I feel I sound feminine.

[@waddledoo2you13]

My gay accent is so detached from me that my gay friends actually think it’s another person 😂. I’ve scared them with it.

[@tabithadefee5390]

In my experience as a cis woman with a lower voice, people often find me off-putting or rude. I've also had transphobia hurled my way a time or two. Because of that, I usually make my voice higher when I'm out in public.

[@Honest_Grifter]

Honestly, there's usually one thing that equates to "gay voice" to me... as a hetero man, it's an almost instant giveaway with the upwards inflection, upwards inflection is the #1 thing I notice... lesbian voices are not as easy to me all the time, for them i sometimes require a few extra qualifiers, usually looking at clothing choices and body posturing

[@1viniciuspessoa]

The same occur to Brazilians. The funny thing is that people tend to assume I'm gay less often whenever I'm speaking something other than my native language.

[@myragroenewegen5426]

So what I really wonder is, if gay-accented voices happen or are intensified when talking to people presumed to be gay, what then happens to voices when we go from identifying community to considering an actual love interest? Will we find that voices tend to do similar things accross orientation when attraction to another person is being felt or communicated? Or do gay men do things that are very diverse but usually difforent than straight men? Or are there difforent biologically or socially rooted voice things that happen when gay people start to sound in love with someone? I would immagine that straight men and women falling for eachother have been studied and some simple voice trends of this kind have already been found, studied and debated for some time.That all probably wouldn't be too surprising, since more people are familiar with how straight people sound in a wide variety of situations , where there are trends. What would be new information is how that would change or not if the parties interested in eachother are both (gay) men. That might pinpoint something reasonably interesting that we could then try to unpack as biological or cultural or both about how much and what people have in common and with who, when they are felling and indicating romantic/sexual interest.

[@exacto0]

before watching i wanna state that I think it's so normal for subgroups and sub cultures to have different tones and cadences that people lean to

[@ianbabineau5340]

I actually had people telling me I was gay about a decade before I knew I was gay (I figured it out at 17). There was only maybe a year or two were they would make fun of me for being gay and I wondered if I might be. Before that I just thought they were full of shit. Strangely enough now that I’m older that doesn’t happen as often. Most people assume I’m straight until they learn otherwise. I’m not sure if that is mostly me changing or the standards for how a man presents have loosened up? There were a few years where I didn’t advertise being gay (I’d tell people when we got to know each other, but casual contacts I would act straight around. Or try to anyway.), but over time it became less important. I feared judgment less. Now, I’m too old to care to pretend anymore. If you’re going to be homophobic go ahead. I’ll yell right back at you, and you don’t want to pick a fight with me. If you can be civil, so can I. It’s not my responsibility to hide who I am.

[@melbournewolf]

LOL, I was the ONLY boy at high school to choose the 'alternative' shirt colour for the uniform (yes, we're as repressed..were as repressed, WERE Simon, PASSSSSST TENSSSSSSE...here in Australia) sky blue instead of light grey...BELLS $ WHISTLES...ALL THOSE LOUD INSTRUMENTS AND MOVING COLOUR! Then a friend clocked me for being a super Ocker Aussie when I'm pissed instead of my clipped ABC RP Melbourne accent, which my French mother and Aunts ensured I spoke when I had to use English (yes, yes Virginia, pretentiousness is a heritable trait - but I was adopted...my point). There are so many things that contribute to these things, alongside the make, gay, stereotype that was acceptable was Mr Humphries a character in Are You Being Served, which played off British "Camp" humour, the effete male, sexless and unthreatening. This was the 1970s boys. I was born in 1966, I am OG GenX of the first order and a Platinum Card Gay - c-section - thanks Jack - so when I see the youth of today in our letter of the Aphabet Mafia - it just used to be the Pink Mafia when I was a boy (Gloria Swanson that last sentence to the boss and bring the house down bitchezzzzzzz! 🫰🏼🫰🏼🫰🏼...thwooorp...🪭

[@NobodyImportantInTX]

I think a lot of straight men start trying to alter their voice to sound more masculine around the time of puberty. It could be using a deeper than normal tone, purposely injecting a bit of gravel or fry, adding in a bit of jargon from sports or trade etc. I don't think it's a conscious thing in most cases, just a situation where practically every part of your life feels like a competition, and you do what you can to keep up. I also think it's self-enforcing in the same way gay voice is, once you've presented a certain way and made your way into a culture, people tend to emulate the behaviors of those around them even if they don't recognize that they're doing it.

[@MissMentats]

It’s so interesting, with kids especially the family can tell… and when they get older and come out everyone is like “we know!”

[@crazguykwan8955]

I got a friend who is continuously baffled at how people immediately knows he is gay from the moment he opens his mouth. Mans basically got Fruit-by-the-Foot promoting him with each syllable but he doesn't see -or rather hear- it.

[@jamescarrington5521]

Yeah, those scary situations for girls late at night....I just don't speak, lol, because I DON'T want to make anyone uncomfortable or afraid.

[@marcelduda3909]

As a bi guy I would love to see some studies on where we fall. Also autistic, so any pitch change in my voice is me putting on an act already :D A straight voice is less work in that sense so nobody could ever clock me based on that

[@exacto0]

gender and sexuality are intrinsically linked! theres no sexual identity without a gender to go with it-- so yes you're a man but your gender presentation changes when you figure your dating pool out too-- like bisexuals changing style because they want to "dress bisexual", and having their gender presentation be different for example

[@MichaelJosephSonger]

I'm strait and I have a feeling that part of not using a larger band of sounds relates to masking emotions in general, since we tend to not want to look weak. It's exhausting BTW.

[@ethanhitchcock5431]

I always think of the Philip Seymour Hoffman film ' Flawless' when the old ladies in the lobby say " It's something in the throat " when referring to the ' Gay Voice ' ...Baw-haw-haw !!!

[@xavierjackson2234]

The “I told you exactly how I felt” comment had me dying

[@jamesu9508]

My heart dropped when someone called me out. Holy F. I’m still policing damn lol

[@CPBplanning]

8:09 this is the "tribe voice" emulation that affects us all. I've never been big city, as I'm a country boy from South Carolina, so going home I find my root voice very fast. However, I just default to "southern meteorologist meets wedding planner nerd" when I'm among my friends 😂

[@bright93]

Singing voice and gay voice comparison would be interesting. I found out late in life that my singing voice was much lower than my gay voice - Like Jim Nabors.

[@mitchellbarnow1709]

I talked as straight as I could before I came out.

[@JMChatman]

I love the Lauv reference! He just dropped a new single today too! It’s awesome!

[@IsraelLlerena]

Same! I just recently got back into him and was surprised to hear him referenced here. Dang gay news really gets around.

[@Trae4k]

I've never really had to think about how I'm talking as a straight guy, tbh. I've never felt like I was suppressing the way I would naturally talk.

[@baserv3849]

i just told everyone that im gay. Dad kicked me out of the house, said not to come back. mom said still loves me, need your support guysss!!!

[@blatinomermann]

"less voice policing" 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽

[@Gary_Texan_USA]

I have never once intentionally changed my voice no matter where or with whom I was with. It would have been ingenious and an insult to myself and the Gay community. To change subjects: these are dangerous and caustic times for the LGBTQ community - what with hundreds of anti-LGBTQ laws being introduced and passed in 2024. Being ourselves is more important now than in 1969. Guys, we need to be vigilant and ACT-UP for our individuality as a strong and unified community. ❤

[@davidadams2395]

It's always been important to be open and vigilant. We've always been persecuted, lives ruined, and murdered. It doesn't mean one should act nelly if it's not in one's nature.

[@jamescarrington5521]

Well, depending on how you look at it, I was either lucky or unlucky in the voice department; most people said that they didn't have any clue that I'm queer judging by my voice. Conversely, lots of other gay guys I've really been attracted to have assumed that I'm straight and therefore, they automatically dismissed me as a potential hook-up or partner because my "S" pronunciation tends to NOT sound like steam escaping, lol. While it's not an actual, bonafide "th" lisp sound, it's definitely not clear and precise....🥴

[@CaspiRose99]

51:16 that “fuck do I have to work on myself” is sooo real 😅

[@jonathanpost5935]

Personally I thoughts it had to do with if you identified more with straight woman than straight men.

[@Fr0zenPeanut]

From my experience that's correct; I subconsciously developed a gay voice because I always related to women more and looked up to them.

[@sentient_onion]

One thing i can say from the start i have different voices for different groups of people and even one on one conversations. like with my mom i have deep "straight" voice and mostly in public with family but with friends its more gentle gess its trama lol 🤷‍♂️

[@BradHoover-m1i]

not sure how they learned to talk that way, but I'm pretty sure they weren't born that way.

[@christiancurtis5674]

I love this conversation. When I came out it was a weird situation because a lot of The Times people thought I was trying to get attention because I didn't sound gay at first or I didn't add gay to them and it was a very confusing time for me. Cause apparently I wasn't gay enough to call myself Gay which was always confusing. Now that I'm 33 a lot of people say they can tell from the jump which makes me feel so much better cause. I always hate when people don't know and I do something gay And they freak out like I broke their fantasy or something.

[@thuggie1]

changing tone of your voice when speaking to straight people defiantly sounds like masking

[@carolinecordelia]

I have a very dark voice, but I'm as straight as can be, but I'm sure someone assume that my dark voice means I'm gay. I'm also now afraid to be mistaken for a transgender person as I'm very tall and have very large feet and hands. (it's been a problem my whole life to be looking so masculine and yeat being so feminine at the same time, loving everything that's pink and girly and glitter 🪩) I'm a female and will always be female, and I don't like women in a romantic way, but I don't like women that much as friends either because of the drama, guys are not that dramatic, at least not straight men..

[@DegenTP]

That guy in the middle looks sooo much like Sabastian Stan!

[@carolinecordelia]

I don't think gay people have a certain voice, at least not in my country except for a few people that kind of "gay" their voices, meaning they are exaggerating the sassiness, kind of like how you can tell if a person is black although you don't see them, but it's not a 100 % true as it's more of a certain way to speak with certain words than how your voice is. Gay men can have light voices or deep voices just like every other man that is straight. The only thing that actually gives away a gay person is them telling everyone they're gay and wearing pride flags or bracelets and such, straight people don't ever tell anyone whenever they enter a room who they prefer as a partner, it would be so weird 😂, but gay people seem to have an urge to tell everyone. I think it's a thing not everyone needs to know unless they try to hit on you, then it's kind of the right time to say, "sorry, but I'm gay". Not all women have a well built in gaydar, and I actually had this girl hitting on me once and she didn't want to leave me alone until I threatened to hit her with a beer. I don't care if a person is a gay or a lesbian or whatever, but no means no, and everyone should respect that. I think people that speak English may sound more gay than like a person speaking German for instance, it may have to do with the language sounding more soft in English than in German, and Norwegian is also a more hush language than Swedish, they all sound gay when they speak 😂, especially when they speak English. I don't mean to offend anyone, It's just how I observed it, so please take it as that. 😊

[@Samuel115s]

Yes gay voice is 100% real but not all gays have it. All of you guys definitely have it though.

[@josephimperatrice5552]

A very small percentage of heterosexual guys have the gay voice but it's about as common as a black person with blue eyes or green eyes.

[@maryissad]

i could listen to you three talk for hours! pleeaase have caleb on for the gay face episode!♥

[@JamesRivera-fi2kk]

I have my regular voice. I also have a Gay voice. I can act Gay and sound Gay but that's not my natural voice. My natural voice isn't high and isn't deep, its right in the middle. I'm 💯 Gay🏳️‍🌈

[@shawnbay2211]

I have this thing where I worry I get taken 2 srsly bc I say quite outrageous things in university class. I purposely put on a valley girl voice & I don’t hold back from saying “like.” I am always surprised how consistently classmates think I’m smart. It’s certainly not my goal 2 sound intelligent (just understood), but it can b surprising how ppl don’t scrutinise the voice.

[@oyipepsi6132]

AAAAA this collab

[@stevedryden803]

s is not a vowel, it is a consonant

[@alexanderarreaga5421]

I always thought it's so we can signal one another. 🗣 "I suck it too!"

[@robokaos69]

My psychiatrist easily sounds gayer than either of you three and he's straight apparently, so heres +1 anecdotal gay sounding straight guy. Im with you guys though i think everybody is more gay than their insecurity lets them admit. Especially evident when you start asking guys how they feel about femme-presenting men.

[@Shane_Shaney]

Enjoyed this conversation! Hope Caleb comes back for a future episode 💜

[@albinnibla]

As Buddy Cole once said, "what's all the fuss over a few extra 'S's?"

[@myragroenewegen5426]

If society becomes more progressive, will more straight men start sounding more like gay men when talking? As they do, will the gay accent have to change radically to be useful to gay men in distingwishing one-another? All accents change over time for any number of reasons, so this seems possible. Maybe it's even part of what's already happened in accent shifts historically. Seems like a nice thought, since, given the choise, I'd rather hear more people modulate their voices with what they feel a bit more.

[@swordwhale1]

This is awesome, thanks guys for doing this... (the straight chick was wondering...).

[@sabbymatters4780]

My friends and I call it Homo Voco and it's absolutely a thing.

[@Caprifool]

Uhm, the two first sentences..... 💅

[@nikitaraine]

im watching u guys since like 2011 and idk u were a gay couple until like 2022. for im context im a queer woman. i really am clueless lol

[@nonsequitor]

I mean.... Also 'tism but yeah 🤦‍♂️ 😂🎯

[@blatinomermann]

Marcus 😍 MCM

[@oh_rhythm]

quoting prof. Jon Lajoie here... "now i'm singing with my gaaaaay voice, to let you know that i am sensitive" 😄

[@javiercmh]

It reminds me of people who think British people are just faking their accents 😂

[@HotTakeAndy]

I’m just voice maxxxxxxing 😂

[@TheMAV777]

I think when a male over uses “Like” it automatically clocks you. I think it is something gay guys picked up from Paris & The kardashians. You guys put “Like” in front and behind almost every other word. It sounds awful. It’s like “Um”😊

[@crapple009]

A very thtimulating dithcourth, thankth!

[@phylliss2851]

Babies, it's 2024, be who y'all are. My gay friends had to hide in thec89s. Yall don't have to

[@joshuawayneyork]

His straight voice was SO GAY!

[@JoanAMSXIV]

38:20 😂

[@meropetied]

Poor bisexuality. No one knows how to relate to one of the most common things.

[@Maxwell-Hung]

I am not Gay! I just keep forgetting I am straight after I wake up in Bed with a Gay Man. 😮

[@Garfield_Minecraft]

I died💀