Back to Eden Woodchips didn't work?

Back to Eden woodchip method has been around forever (roughly since trees existed), but was made popular mainstream after a film called Back to Eden with Paul Gautschi. Since that film, many people have tried to use a deep woodchip method on their gardens after seeing Paul's success.
This episode today will talk a little bit about Back to Eden woodchips. First we take a quick aside to explain some science around WHY you may want to try this. What is a woodchip mulch even trying to do? How does it work? What benefits does it bring? Without knowing that, then you are just acting from a position of misinformation and hope. With understanding comes the ability to maneuver based on your observations received. So this is key, and lasts about 4 minutes. It's well worth it.
Then we get into 4 common pitfalls that people get themselves into when they try this method. They go too thin. They till the woodchips in. They try to use ONLY woodchips for green leafy crops (see paragraph above), or they don't allow the system to mature - draw conclusions too quickly. Not giving it enough time is like throwing your tomato plants out after they get their first 2 leaves, because they aren't producing any tomatoes - so tomato plants obviously don't work. Then when someone tells you how to grow tomato plants properly, you get defensive and say "Well they didn't work for me, maybe you were lucky". This is what we do, and it cracks me up. This is what happens when we fail to obtain knowledge of how the thing we are trying to do ACTUALLY works. So let me help with that.
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Quick aside - for the eventual question that always comes - "Deep woodchip mulch doesn't replicate nature because nature doesn't drop 10 inches of woodchips down, it only drops leaves down". Well that's not exactly true. Nature will drop down a 5 foot thick tree down ). I.e. "woodchips" 5 feet thick. It is among these fallen trees where the most fertility happens.
So yes, for the mostpart, year by year, you get a one inch thick mat of leaves. However, what matters is that if you averaged out a particular square foot area, you would have some years where a whole mature tree falls and takes decades to decompose. That area is under a 5 foot thick wood mulch.
Lastly, understand that we aren't adding 10 inches of woodchips per year. We are fast-forwarding soil transition from what is typically a grass lawn, to old growth forest soil. If you want to wait 140 years, then sure, just put down an inch of leaves per year, and after year 140 you will have old growth forest soil. However, since most people draw conclusions after 1 season (come on now... nature doesn't work that fast), then you need to speed it up by causing that "tree fall event" everywhere, by dumping down a foot thick to start. It almost makes sense, right?
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[@dawnbern2917]

I think there's a tremendous misconception about the Back to Eden gardening method. If you listen to Paul, he says make friends with someone that has a tree trimming business and use the fresh chipper waste, which is not just wood chips but leaves needles and other organic material. I think we have to stop using the term wood chips because people think it's okay to just go to Home Depot and buy a bunch of plastic bags of chipped dead wood. Not the same thing.

[@jbuck1975]

Maybe they should listen to Paul and others first

[@petratical]

Right Dawn, but more importantly, not the same price!

[@leelaural]

mostly people have to evaluate everything they read....eg....egg shells, which I dutifully save even in winter in the freezer to throw into the ground come spring....they do NOT compost quickly.....trying to break them up more now before I throw them in the garden....I am also trying lasagna gardening..

[@Erik_Pasveer]

Exactly right!

[@danabella6540]

I think it's not really wood chips. It's the wood chips that turns to compost that made the soil rich.

[@williamgair3230]

Perfect! I felt so sorry for Paul when he was having to "back up and punt" because people had missed some key points. He looked like he was going to cry as he addressed those issues. You have done it very well. When I first got to my property I started "Back To Eden." One of the biggest influences for me to use it was "if you have space that you know will be something someday don't just let it sit all barren. Wood chip it and let it sit. It will be in such better shape when the day comes to plant it." That's what I did and I AM SO GLAD I DID!

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Such a good tip 👌 👏 👍

[@buildingwithtrees2258]

What Paul never clarified, or people didn't care to actually watch his full material. Is that he didn't use wood chips right on the garden. They sat in his chicken yard for a year, mixing with poo, urine, and green compost. Then it went on his garden. I do that with fantastic results.

[@Mrs.TJTaylor]

That’s exactly what I did too. The first thing that happened for me was a massive mushroom crop. It was beautiful. It took a few years. I ended up with the richest soil you’ve ever seen.

[@markweintraut7420]

My son planted a 2 acre orchard in 2013, we met Paul in 2015. The local tree service love the free dump site, the trees and all manner of plants love the chips. The bounty we are looking at right now is beyond description. You are spot on Bro. Thank you for the clarification on the different plants, we knew something was up in the garden, but you nailed it.

[@brianwhite9555]

Just had to add... As a long-time veggie gardener, I had figured out why some folks said that "Back to Eden" didn't work for them, but you actually made a video that explained it perfectly, and in great detail. You explained how it can work, and what NOT to do. Everyone who has failed at BTE gardening, or who may want to try it, should watch this video. Thank you for giving this video to the gardening community. BTW, that has to be the largest & thickest strawberry patch I've ever seen. Well done!

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Thanks Brian! That's exactly what I was hoping for.

[@lindyswanson1]

I agree! I'm just learning about this method and am so glad ypu posted how to make it work with this clear explanation.

[@dol3980]

Wood chips require a long term evolution to contribute to ur soil bacterial composition. Even maple leaves and grass clipping are no 3 month salvo as some neophytes suggest, a least not here in frigid 6 month freeze in canada (maybe in the everglades).

[@alicecrawford2159]

You missed where Paul says that he screens the chips for the garden. That way, he can plant in the screened wood chips. You can not plant into the larger chips. In the beginning, Paul had moved the chips with his rake to get to the soil to plant seeds.

[@tylerehrlich1471]

Anecdote on a first year wood mulch garden: Last fall I put 6 inches of woodchips with finer branch materials on three garden beds. This was not thick enough for complete weed suppression, but grasses were not an issue this year. I believe because the chips are new and not fully broken down, the start of the year was tougher for plants to get established, and not all my seed varieties came up. The ones that did, though, are tough and dark green, and I haven't watered my garden in several months, despite weather in the 80s and occasionally the 100s. So that is a grand success as far as this kid from the dry, dry Front Range is concerned!

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Good stuff :) This fall, add a bit more. Once the plants have established roots under them, they should have no problem pushing up through them. For example, in my strawberries I added another inch right on top of the strawberries. You started a snowball that will build and build each year. That one action will pay off in spades over the next decade.

[@messyhomestead7320]

Thanks for sharing this. I was just wondering exactly this - namely, for those of us who have grass all over the yard that we don't want to have anymore but can't get good help to fix that, how to no-till. Your experience adds a useful data point to this - thanks!

[@nancyandrews7442]

Can you talk about planting seeds in a wood chip garden?

[@annburge291]

That was a brilliant summary. Adding one small point: the most fertile part of the garden is the boundary between fungal dominated soil and bacterial dominated soil. Hence the importance of clearings in forests. Market garden beds being relatively narrow and long thickly spread with compost surrounded by wood chip paths increases the most fertile boarder. Having the large tree drip line coinciding between the wood chip fungal dominated area and grass land gives the trees maximum fertility. Fungi extract minerals from rocks and make them available to the plants. Having some flat stepping stones helps. As an aside I have very little access to wood chips in the Mexican desert. Many of the trees have impressive boots piercing prickles and are hard to put through the chipper. I can more easily get hold of sawdust, cardboard and carbon dust. Hay is expensive and animal owners have morally more rights to the bales. Before we bought the property, the neighbours had removed the top soil with a caterpillar. We were left with clay and rocks. I encouraged the Mezquite stumps to reshoot by covering the soil with cardboard and then with sawdust and rocks. With watering weeds sprouted such as tumble weed, night shade varieties and couch grass. These weeds I composted with sawdust that had been part of the chicken coop deep mulch. I dug some mini swales, filled them with Mezquite branches and covered them with sawdust to protect our feet. There's a clear transitioning process in the desert.

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

This is a truly fantastic post. You haven't happened to check out this video of mine from last year yet have you| kzbin.info/www/bejne/kKnMooR3Yryjesk It's all about the things you mention, and why they work. Gradients are powerful things. Your situation is quite different from mine. I'm sure the swales will help a ton. I love what you are doing with the mesquite and tumbleweeds. Organic matter anywhere you can get it! know a lot of people in that area even do little pocket holes called Zai. It's basically just a deep hole with a bunch of biomass dumped into it.

[@annburge291]

@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy Thanks for the link. It was brilliant. I'm a new watcher to your channel. Sun angles are critical in dry lands and drip lines.

[@raylang2996]

Awesome job. I believe the mesquites are legumes.

[@messyhomestead7320]

I noticed that border fertility as well and I sure want to thank you for sharing why that is - so helpful! For another perspective on ethical rights to hay (a great conversation to have!), it could also be considered that when we work in a permac way and build up our soil value well, it builds capabilities for everybody, not just the one person or critter. Given my knowledge of the waste of supply chains and of eating animals (I work in these industries as well), I personally see the net cost of having a way to grow my own food as much lower than that of supporting an animal farm's food supply, which could also in many places be made more sustainable (I feel bad for the critters stuck eating dry stuff in places that, with a little planning, could provide fresh for a lot more of the year). Just another thought for folks to consider, but it's good to be thoughtful about what we take from the supply always so thanks for bringing that up!

[@Wanda-er2ns]

​@@messyhomestead7320 ⁰

[@kennyonufrock3382]

Best explanation of this method yet. I've watched a bunch of these. Thanks for sharing, saved me a ride on the struggle bus.

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Thanks Kenny 😊

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

@Kage777 yep, its that simple. 🙂

[@haram2163]

@@kage7772 I watch a lot of James Prigioni, who over the last year has started doing raised beds for annuals. Gave the same reasoning, but did not explain as thoroughly as this video.

[@heritagefamilydental]

You explain this concept better than anyone else thank you

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Thank you :)

[@nachthawknighthhawk6588]

I'm in Colorado, U.S. I had bushes with drip irrigation that struggled for several years. The very first year that I wood chip mulched, they SHOT UP 3 to 4 feet and started bushing out. When it comes to bushes and trees, I would swear by it. Oh, my base soil is literally pottery clay.

[@babyfox205]

Which plants do you grow in such soil? 😮 Did you cover with potting mix first and then the wood chips?

[@dac7046]

@@babyfox205 I don’t know where @nachthawknighthhawk6588 is specifically but from his description he could be in my neighborhood in Colorado. You can really grow anything that can tolerate the short growing season, lack of rainfall and can deal with pH that can be pretty high like around 8 or even more which is a lot of normal garden stuff! Couple of things I’d suggest: 1) wood chips are a mulch- not a nutrient source. Use them that way so yes, put down a 1-2” layer of good quality compost then mulch over that with chips. Eventually the chips break down and at that point they are providing nutrients. I have about half acre of garden within a 2 acre lot and I use chips (like truckload after truckload) everywhere…. except directly on the garden beds. The beds get compost.

[@dac7046]

@babyfox205 oops- hit reply too soon. #2 is that whatever you do, be sure to checkout Charles Dowding’s KZbin channel especially his work with wood chips. Yes he is in England but his work very much transfers even to a high elevation, very dry short growing season place like Colorado. I’ve watched a lot of gardening channels and Dowding’s channel is head and shoulders above the rest! Last Spring I followed his directions exactly for some new garden ground (thick layer of cardboard on top of weedy, hard clay with several inches good quality compost on top of that then plant through the cardboard) and raised the nicest batch of winter squash you ever saw not to mention virtually no weeds and I watered only 4 times where most of the garden gets watered 3 times per week!

[@babyfox205]

@@dac7046 thank you for the suggestions!

[@homesteadhaven6024]

I’m in year four using the back to eden method layered over animal bedding and compost and it’s working wonderfully. Your point about veg and trees wanting different wood chip and soil (bacterially/fungally dominated) is key, I think. Anyone working with wood chips should see this video!!! Ps: just my two cents I think source is fully engaged with anyone who has their hands in the dirt. No point is too trivial when it comes creation. Thank you again! You’re so great at keeping focus in your videos.

[@sharonagoren6751]

I completely agree with what you said about the source of creation. Well said!

[@homesteadhaven6024]

Thank you for appreciating the thought Sharona Goren :)

[@sishrac]

My own experience affirms that the 'Source' of our breath is indeed engaged with anyone seeking 'Him' for wisdom.

[@BalticHomesteaders]

It's not just about woodchips and I think that's what most people get wrong. It's about compost, some of which comes from woodchips but not all of it. I think people just jump on the woodchips part with blinkered eyes and ignore what else Paul says or what's going on etc.

[@noelp.8416]

Yeah and there needs to be the right biology in the compost, fungi to start breaking down the woody materials and predators to make those nutrients available to the plants.

[@Beckelbay]

100% true. From the first BTE video I viewed (not sure which one), I understood that the wood chipping process was LOADED with green material which would compost down into soil nutrients and seep into the soil below while the slightly bigger "chips" would provide cover. People just throw huge chucks of wood chips and they are discouraged with their lack of success, then say BTE doesn't work.

[@jamesdagmond]

If you start with only wood chips your plants will suffer for lack of nitrogen. Don't ask me how I know. 🤦‍♂🤦‍♂

[@Qiroqi]

You thoroughly cleared up some questions I've had about BTE for a long time. Great information.

[@anndrake492]

One thing to add: it takes moisture to make composting happen. Irrigation of the compost may be necessary if you don’t get enough rain.

[@veronica_._._._]

Yes l have inappropriately planted 60 yo forest trees (from a public area,) turning my soil into the Gobi Desert, am now growing herbs, you learn to go with the flow. I'm in the rainiest city too 😂

[@johnrosier1686]

Thanks for shedding some more light on this. There are different ways of doing this that end up with different outcomes.

[@JK-pd7jf]

Big thanks for explaining and bringing some balance to this!

[@przybyla420]

This is a really good explanation of plant succession and how it is driven by changes to the soil.

[@richardruss7481]

I would like to correct you on one thing, ALL plants do better when mycorrhizal fungi is present in the soil. Most plants that we like to grow in the garden do best when bacteria and fungi are about equal (see elaine ingram's research). You ignore nature when you act like a forest has no open areas of sunlight, or that a meadow in nature has no trees in it. Plants like tomatoes grow best at the edge between a meadow and a forest. I think the best way to explain what wood chips can do for you is to say, "it is great for starting a soil, but it needs plants, to drive it to the next level".

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

This is 100% true. It's hard to say everything you want to say in every video without them all ending up 50 minutes long. Even the most bacterial dominated soils are still roughly 20% fungus, and that fungus is still performing it's critical roles. The same as in fungal dominated soils: nutrient and water exchange, plant communication pathways, etc. Similarly, even the oldest forest soils, they are still roughly 20% bacterial. That bacteria is crucial in receiving the plant root exudates, using acids to break down soil aggregates, and chelate nutrients for plants.

[@messyhomestead7320]

Thanks for clarifying this - I was wondering about this during the video and couldn't quite put my dissonance into words. Appreciate you doing that for me!

[@Wanda-er2ns]

​@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy 😊

[@Leelongostyle]

Thank you.

[@quick9smitty511]

Wow, this makes so much sense. So glad I found this video. Will definitely share it.

[@kimchinguyen5083]

Awesome!! Thank you for explaining things so throughly !

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Thanks!

[@dotsouthard2980]

Informative, straightforward video. Probably the best I've seen on woodchips explaining bacterial vs fungal applications and functions

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Thanks for watching :)

[@sharonagoren6751]

Thank you for this video! You always explain so clearly and I love gaining clarifications and attention to how nature works and how we can garden in likeness to nature.

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Thanks 😊

[@stevencohen624]

Great video! Thanks for uploading this.

[@isabelladavis1363]

Very well presented…I started our wood chip garden last year ..I did add elderberry as well as moringa trees and both have fared well…looking forward to next year …the layer was put on very thick a few weeds now and then…quite happy with it in only one year…can only get better

[@joromney]

This makes perfect sense! The best explanation I have seen on when and how to use wood chips. Thank you!

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Thanks 😊

[@STEAMLabDenver]

You make some really good points. You are right that people want immediate results and gardening takes patience. Thank you for sharing. I love using wood chips. We invested in a wood chipper because we have a lot of trees and it was worth it.

[@swetalahiri9491]

Intro of the video was so interesting. Like it. Thanks.

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Thanks 😊

[@RichardStansfield]

Thank you for explaining the back to Eden method. You have highlighted why I have been struggling with the leafy greens. Awesome job. Now I can understand what is going on

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Glad it was helpful!

[@fredhenderson945]

Thank you. You clarified lots of stuff I've been thinking about. It all makes sense.

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Thanks for watching Fred

[@ureasmith3049]

I got very poor sandy soil. I've noticed the health and vigor of my small trees in front and back yard has changed dramatically since mulching heavy with wood chips. I've also been chopping up organic food scraps and just going around the yard burying inside the tree's mulch.

[@jimmyp371]

“When a tree fall does it burry itself into the ground?” Mind blown, what a good example! Don’t till those wood chips!

[@TomiaMacQueen]

Wonderfully informative video. Thank you!

[@harveyschindler9554]

I think what a lot of people miss is what Paul has stated many times, that he uses only wood chips from smaller branches, less than 3 inches. The smaller branches have more nitrogen to carbon ratio than the larger stuff. So when you get that load from tree companies, they are chipping fairly large stuff with that. In south Louisiana, a lot of people complain about red ants in wood chips. Those pest are everywhere anyway with or without chips. The last few videos I’ve seen of Paul, he wasn’t even getting more chips for his permaculture area, of course he had years, maybe decades of chips. His annual vegetable garden, he was using mostly composted material from his chicken yard. He feeds those suckers all the waste from his garden. Lastly I agree, it’s not a sprint to finish. More a marathon, I have areas that I’ve stored chips on hard pan clay. Move the chips and it’s amazing the biology under that.

[@shadishvadivelu3166]

Sheer brilliance! Such a beautiful video!

[@raincoast9010]

A great explanation, I have seen many wood chip videos and no one ever explained it like you did.

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Glad you enjoyed it! I try to bring a little more science behind the "why" so that people understand what they are actually doing, and how they can react and adjust.

[@haram2163]

Well explained video. Definitely worth a sub. Cheers.

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Thanks Haram!

[@katkat4894]

Thank you so much. Ive learned a lot from this video, well explained.

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Thanks

[@lawrencechan2693]

1:47 - ecological succession. Nature transitions from bare soil, to weeds, to grasses, to woodier plants, shrubs, and finally trees.

[@wudangmtn]

Never mind that question, I can research it. I know you are a busy man. Thanks again for the informative videos!

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

No problem, I try to help out as much as I can. I don't mind at all. That's how I will build my channel after all. Helping folks.

[@RossCustomWoodFurniture]

Such a great explanation of proper use of wood chips in garden. As a newcomer to this and no till methods, your video helped me out so much!

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Excellent! If you like the science stuff, you may really enjoy my complete soil microbiology guide. 👍

[@brendaj9369]

Thank you so much for that well understandable explanation of using wood chips.It takes time and the right application. Loved it so much❣

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Glad it was helpful!

[@haakmaaraan6075]

Thank you so much for this video! It made everything so much more clear to me…I now know what to do with my brand new gardenplot!

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Amazing! Good luck 👍

[@bobburkinshaw6418]

Just discovered your site this weekend and have been enjoying watching a number of your videos. I find that you have some of the best explanations for basic prinicples that I have seen anywhere and this one on wood chips was superb! One little side note: when you include a lot of motion in a video I tend to get motion sick. Not sure if that is just me but it does limit how much I can watch at a time.

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Thanks! I appreciate your comments also. For the motion, I completely agree and it's something I'm getting better at. My more recent videos tend to set up a shot then talk - versus carrying my camera around as I walk, which can cause that nausea.

[@vanessal1893]

Amazing video, thank you Keith!!

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

🍻

[@andrejhanzekovic5300]

That was very informative. I didn't know the difference between bacterial and fungal soil types that work best for trees/leafy plants. Thank you!

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Thanks for watching:)

[@JoLuffiroSauce]

going on my 4th year on BTE! So excited! Even year one it had been producing for me! Love it! I haven't water any of my yard since i started. only water once when i first plant it of course. :)

[@sanelamakic9655]

Thanks for excellent information.💖💖💖

[@CreedmoorFury]

Best freeform answer: If nitrogen was sequestered by chip media sitting on the forest floor, we would have no trees. Instant Subscriber on that alone. Do your thing CPL, I'm with you!

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

For some reason this comment went to the spam folder. Fixed that now - sorry for the late reply.

[@my_garden.secrets]

Enjoyed watching this episode ..🌷❤🥰

[@ozcavazos]

👏🏼 Excellent explanation!

[@j.m.b.greengardens968]

I should add to my comment below that you did an excellent job of succinctly explaining bacterial and fungal dominated soils and the plants that thrive in each.

[@JackiesSouthernSoul]

I got all of this same information from several of Paul’s videos. I truly did my research and wrote things down. Maybe people who said this method didn’t work didn’t pay attention like they should have because Paul and others in his videos said all of this clearly. This video is informative so people can have another chance to understand what Paul already told us to do so thank you for this.

[@cboy5oc]

Thank you for "connecting the dots" so this makes sense.

[@Bfamreef]

I just finished my first year of this style of gardening and I can say you are absolutely correct in the use of compost for you beds. I mostly use the wood chips as pathways and a very effective weed control method. As with anything you need to find what works best for your situation and dont be afraid to experiment and see what works.

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Thanks for watching and sharing your experiences with it. The more data we get the better!

[@ellenyoung9223]

Thanks for the great explanation about bacterial soil organisms and fungal networks. Really appreciate your videos.

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Thanks! If you enjoyed this one, you may REALLY enjoy my ultimate microbiology guide that I did a few months ago - if you haven't watched it yet.

[@ellenyoung9223]

@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy oh I'll check it out! Thank you!

[@trumpzilla4193]

Fantastic Clear explanation! Thank-you from Winderdome BC

[@jayspermacultureallotment]

Another fantastic informative video 👍🌱🌍👍

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Thanks Jay 😊

[@safabee]

Great explanation, thank you so much! The sarcastic animals took me out, too funny.

[@HowToHydroponics]

Thanks you, I knew this method didn’t work and it’s nice to know I’m not the only one it doesn’t work for

[@charlesburkhart800]

New subscriber. Will be binge watching! NE Ohio.

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Welcome to the family!

[@thyme4coffee203]

This is pretty spot on! I am very impressed how you explained everything. I do almost exactly the same thing. I started to add raised beds for organization and for annuals though. I have super clay soil so if I wanted carrots I had to switch things up.

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Its hard because anytime I make a video I end up thinking that I wish I talked about this, or that, or this or that. But its already so hard to keep the videos to a 10 to 15 minute length, even with heavy editing. There's just so much to talk about! For this topic particularly, I added a beefy video description where I can add more info for those folks who want more details! Thanks for watching.

[@franziskani]

@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy Thanks for your efforts to inform us, your videos are high quality, it is obvious that a lot of work and time goes into them. Greetings from Austria - your vids are helpful because we have about the same climate conditions.

[@barryjanis]

Have been using chips for a decade, one yr I saturated my pile with pond water. And they decomposed fairly quickly. inoculate your chips with fungi from rotting logs or soil from the forest floor. Keep your chips damp. I love compost !

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Exactly!

[@mimilam2618]

I posted a question on another site and was referred to this site . Thank you

[@popogejo7245]

Love this guy's introduction.

[@daniellebissonnette3304]

Very informative. I started a garden three years ago, and expanded it the year after. The second section had so much rock in the soil, after removing it, we were pretty much left only with clay, which retained too much water in one corner. Even after working in bucket loads of soil, we still could not level the garden to soil level, and the added soil did not address the clay problem. I ended up mulching endless buckets of leaves in the soil. It worked well to lighten up the soil and help worms break down the clay, but despite the addition of compost, I did sacrifice productivity for a good couple of years while the soil was restructuring and coming back to life. Building soil from the ground up is an investment. All investments require time and patience. It's all worth it in the end, the soil is starting to look good. This Spring, in the first section, where the soil was already good, I tilled in wood chips from the previous year, and realized my mistake after it was too late. Lesson learned, I do have reduced fertility for now. I am now looking into applying the no dig approach going forward, and hopefully I can combine no dig and wood chipping to get more productive soil and more efficient weed management.

[@franziskani]

You could amend with nitrogen to compensate for the mixed under wood. For instance with horn or even bought fertilizer if it does a slow release. But horn will be fine, it comes as chips or meal, the latter meaning the horn is ground up. Fungi gobble up nitrogen to process the wood particles you mixed under, but the plants or green cover if you have that in winter can access the nitrogen from the horn as an alternative. At the same time they are not overwhelmed with nitrogen in liquid form. I found that it is not that easy to get it right with liquid fertilizer. I would even use horn meal, their nitrogen is faster available, but not immediately, so the plants can influence how much they want and when. Doses of fairly diluted urine (1 : 15 or even higher water ratio) can help as well. Maybe once a week, so you are not overdoing it. And of course liquid manure made from stinging nettles (they are high in silicium which is good for the cell walls, and nettles are high in nitrogen, which is released into the liquid if it ferments long enough). I made a batch (water, nettles incl. the stems, water just covering the manually ripped plant material), let it stand and stirred once a day to add some oxygen (at least you should stir it once a day during summer. I started the stirring only after 2 weeks, but it still worked out fine). You have to cover the fermenting brew because of the stink (the word manure is correctly applied) But I made it in May / June and now middle of October it is still not degraded. It stinks (as always) but it did not detoriorate. I was a newbie to liquid nettle manure so I did not know that it needs stirring and help with oxygen. Two weeks after starting my batch I had a layer on top that may have been mould (I also had a lot of plant material and not too much water, so some plant parts were above water level, that invites mould. The plant material shrinks, so now it is always covered by liquid. I still have the plant material in it - the stems have not yet dissolved, but are much softer of course). An internet search informed me that even if that layer was mould - the liquid manure can still be used, the plants do not mind. Anyway, since then I stirred it on a regular base (almost once every day during warm season) and mould did not come back. In fall I got lazy as September was cool and wet, and October not much better. But the nettle liquid is still in good shape, gets an occasional stir and I will use it to prepare the beds for next spring. (the bucket stands under trees in full shade, that was enough even in summer).

[@anndrake492]

YES! This is the way it works: wonderful video. Thanks.

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Thanks Ann

[@helenmcgill5563]

Cheers, interesting and informative 👍

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Thanks

[@TheBucklandgrp]

Very Helpful, thank you

[@why6246]

Thank you for breaking that down in easy to understand terms. Makes so much sense when you just observe what nature does! Easy to get frustrated and confused when you figure in human impatience lol!

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

You bet!

[@constantinaolstedt]

Excellent and concentrated knowledge... thanks from Stockholm Sweden 🤗❤️

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@TheBullsGarden]

Thanks for sharing my friend I’ve been doing the wood chips for several years as well and my soil is fantastic I just love getting truckloads of free wood chips all the time time

[@Madmun357]

I moved back to the desert into my childhood home. The dirt around the house was a dead, brown fine sand. I contacted an arborist and got a HUGE woodchip drop off. He was more than happy to drop off here because it saved him time and money by not having to go to the landfill. It's desert, so the decomposition is slow, but once the monsoon rains came I can't believe the difference it's making even in a few weeks. The water retention is amazing. I'm composting some of it, I spread a lot of it, sheet-mulched some, mini- Johnson Su bioreactor for some. I just need to be more patient. I'm ready for another wood chip shipment. Thanks for the video. I agree with what you said...just try to mimic nature.

[@franziskani]

Wood chips really shine in arid areas or regions with infrequent rain. You do not get slugs or fire ants (ask a Brit or people from the Southern states of the US), and in the desert wood chips can play off their main feature to full advantage - water retention / water moderation. And as you take care to keep the vegetation moist and may irrigate - the warm temperatures with more moisture than usual in the area will help the fungi to break down the wood. - A few degrees more in soil temperature mean almost double the biological activity, so you have a major advantage over Canada.

[@franziskani]

10:35 Actually a Hugel Culture Bed also has layers, the core of wood is surrounded by better soil, compost etc. Sepp Holzer recommends logs, he used chipped material, but found out that logs work much better, and it is much less work to set up the bed. And he has a succession of vegetables. Those with higher demand for nutrients come in the first year and then they switch to less and less demanding plants. On the other hand the water storage ability of the bed increases as the logs become more "spongy".

[@messyhomestead7320]

Thanks for sharing this - I'm new to this idea. When you say use logs instead of chips, what is the setup - you don't mean like in a raised bed border - correct? You're saying cover the yard with branches or something? Thank you so much if you are able to clarify a bit. Since I have easy access to random branches and less access to organized helpers, I'm intrigued!

[@howardchambers9679]

​@@messyhomestead7320in the bottom of a raised bed you can place small logs, branches etc, this both cuts down on the amount of compost required and feeds from below as they decompose, I'm assuming fresh wood chips as a base layer would work the same way with the added benefit of decomposing faster than logs. I think that's what was meant anyway.

[@user-tq4gx3gf7p]

Thanks a lot a good explanation

[@eexner4242]

Thank you for giving the science that will help me in my journey. I was afraid there was more to the “story”

[@wesbaumguardner8829]

I live in a dry arid environment. I put wood chips down. The first year was not so great. Afterwards, everything grew great. I do have problems with pill bugs and squash bugs. The pill bugs I attribute directly to the wood chips. The squash bugs were going to be a problem no matter what. The real benefit is that it helped the tilth of my clay soil. I also use it in my walkpaths. Without the woodchips, I would not be able to go into my garden at all after a heavy rain. My clay soil will literally suck the boots off your feet. Furthermore, it helps me protect the soil from the sun and prevents evaporation, which means I do not have to water the garden as much. All in all, the mulch has been far more beneficial than it has been problematic.

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Awesome. Give it a few more years and it will just keep getting better also.

[@wesbaumguardner8829]

@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy I am currently going on 6 years with the mulch. It does just keep getting better. I keep adding it whenever I can, but I think I am going to start leaning towards green manure cover crops for my beds now that my tilth has majorly improved. I may add wood chips as needed here and there. Being an arid environment, it is difficult for me to keep plants growing all year around and I definitely do not want my soil baking in the sun. Thanks for the informative video, btw. Keep up the good work, brother.

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Awesome Wes. I can imagine what it's like, my oldest food forest sections are going on their 6th year now. It's incredible the difference in the soil around them. Night and day.

[@jenc8953]

You are the first person on you turn I have seen that has done a great job at explaining the back to Eden method and breaking it down where it is simple to understand and remember. Now I understand how to do this method and I am going to try it in my front Garden.

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Awesome!

[@franziskani]

Gauchi did some clarification interviews, after many people misunderstood his method. And others have also clarified the method respectively summed up what Gauchi explained AFTER he got a lot of feedback on the first documentary. But it is good that this channel covers it as well - one more proof that it works in THIS climate zone and obviously many people have not yet heard of the clarifications. Gauchi does not have a channel, but I think he was interviewed by a neighbour. The Back To Eden documentary is highly religiously motivated, the important details are somewhat hidden, and the two young women that made the film are most likely NOT experienced gardeners. it is even possible that they edited out important details that Gauchi already gave then - because they did not understand the importance.

[@MegaDavyk]

Its not just wood chips, its whole trees including all the green material that have been chipped and it takes time to break down and work.

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Yep

[@d.b.sorensen827]

I have a city green dump about 2 miles from me ,They seperate chips into large fresh/ medium aged a few months /and fine aged a year or so I can drive my old truck in and they fill it to cab top in 1 scoop If you put down a layer of cardboard to kill off the weeds then 3-4 inch's fine wood chips at the beginning of July they hold in moisture thru the summer and are quite well broke down with no weeds by the next spring then you just put down more chips as needed .I even use them in raised beds and pot's to save work and water! I also screen the chips out so I have very fine chips to mix in with compost and fill lower few inch's of pots before filling to top with compost planting mix .Gotta love wood chip's!

[@quadraceracer]

Perfect!! Well explained. The "thumb down" must have been that chewy dog on the bottom right corner of your video at the tilling reference @ 10:20 lol

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Lol, thanks Paul

[@InsidetheBoothTV]

Love this .. thanks

[@mahlet3570]

Very informative. Thanks from Ethiopia 💚💛❤️

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Much love ❤️

[@emilyconway6273]

Thank you very much for sharing your educational videos and helping many to learn these methods of land restoration. We accidentally restored a spring, and large area of wet lands that had been filled in a 100 years ago at our cottage in the rocky very hard clay soil in the Thousands Islands region of Ontario Canada. A wonderful expert, Cliff who was a neighbour, and a local nursery owner Laurie from her company called Made in the Shade near Kingston Ontario, helped educated us, and Laurie designed the whole project and she told us what to do according to what nature would have done. Their many years of experience, design, and direction was invaluable. This is exactly what you have done, except we didn't add any rubber membranes, due to the extremely high concentration of clay, and massive granite out croppings. Over five years later it was described as an oasis when we were selling Princess Cottage, which the photos prove, and it was so little work as the large plant filtering areas keep the pond and spring clean without any pump moving any water, due to how she designed the water to drain into this natural spring and wetland. The value added to our property was over 100K, but the value to the local waterways was much more immense with clean water being supported via all the necessary filtering plants, and the immense joy through all the very hard labour my son and I had was priceless. The fauna only all native, including tress, including a local willow, black walnut, and an old growth maple thrived too as the lifeless hard pan clay was slowly transformed into a sustainable micro ecosystem. The local conservation authority documented this underground spring restoration, and confirmed just before we sold our property that this spring feeds down the ravine through our neighbours property a lower seasonal ponds, small streams, the original local reed and willow trees and beds and then feeds the St Lawrence. We are grateful for the opportunity to have learned these necessary facts of how to "garden" with nature rather then against it. Thank you again for sharing this important information and being willing to give back and educate us all, as Laurie and Cliff gave back and educated us to fix a sink hole full of clay mud that I sank into three feet deep which was a natural spring filled in by misguided land owners.You can google Princess Cottage located at 36 Princess Street in Gananoque Ontario on Facebook for photos. My spouse and I restored the historic cottage which is our area of expertise. Emily

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Fantastic post!

[@emilyconway6273]

Thank you! If anyone mistakenly doesn't think mulch works ( over time please be patient) they are SO greatly misinformed. I also accidentally added way too much mulch. I ordered a quarter truck load for all the trees and areas to be developed further. I ended up having to add a full foot thick of mulch, as my supplier mistakenly misunderstood due to my mask and thought I wanted a whole truck load! However the results were over time the mulch condensed and then a highly productive "naturally occurring" forest floor between some flower, shrubs, and the willow tree happened. I lamented to Laurie one day and she explained nature's abilities to transform over time. I also made the "mistake" as some think and didn't add any cardboard or weed suppression layers as we wanted this mistake to occur.Laurie wanted the hard pan layers of clay to be allowed to become broken up by worms, bird's and many species now visiting and seeding theses mulched areas including routing around for the many worms now invading the mulch and breaking up the clay and transform ing into a new forest floor full of life . It started out as dry cracked open clay, or seeping mud with no fertility. I also then planted the many native pollinating plants inbetween to support the whole ecosystem as per Laurie's expertise. These "wilding" areas became extremely diverse and very naturally beautiful too. I never cut the area's " weeds",some more than 5 feet high as these too were supportive in preventing erosion and drought in the clay beneath near the ravin. The only "gardening" over time was cutting the one small area of "grass", mainly planted clover, and learning who to identify and remove as non native plants and invasive species. I also only partially raked up leaves off the "grass". Otherwise they stayed to decay into these wild areas and new forest floors just as happens naturally. My son and I are truly greatful and blessed to know this restored spring is supporting whole area's of Gananoque's ravin above Bay road, underground springs aquifer, wetlands, ponds, streams and the beautiful waterfront along the St. Lawrence. We hope it remains restored via the new owners too for everyone's joy and healthy environment.

[@heatherb918]

Very cool property!

[@darongw]

Really enjoyed this video! I use this method all over my land. One thing I've done to speed up the breakdown of the chips in the garden is to add wine cap mushroom spawn. They've done great in the garden beds. And recently I started making a rough compost out of wood chips, horse manure and green plants. The resulting compost works as a mulch and as compost. Basically I'm just speeding up the natural breakdown and also adding more bacteria to the system. This rough compost goes on my gardens and straight wood chips go in my food forests and other woody plant areas. Seems to work well.

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Amazing. I'm also a massive fan of King Stropharia mushrooms. So nice to get a delicious crop out of a aoil building component. Your comment is making me want to go make a massive compost pile. I have a lot of stuff I could go harvest after work.

[@darongw]

@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy Yeah, I really like the King Stropharia mushrooms too! I setup a 4-bin system using untreated pallets to make my compost. I use the 18 day method Geoff Lawton outlines in one of his videos. With the 4 bins I can have 2 piles going at a time. When I turn the piles I just turn the piles into the empty 2 bins. Shifting back and forth between the bins this way doesn't take too long. I have 2 removable doors for the full bins. Later in the fall when I don't have a source of green plants I will be shifting to a slower system using just wood chips and horse manure but right now the 18 day method is great for building up a supply for the fall. The wood chips are from some free sources in my area and the horse manure is from my neighbor. The hardest part is just getting all the materials together but the results are worth it for new garden beds. Really helps build up the beneficial soil life! :)

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

@@darongw and seriously, if you told me in my 20s that I would have fun running a compost pile, I would have laughed at you. Why is it so fun? It has all these elements of science experiments, and time delayed gratification, and when you do it right, really right, and you see that steam coming off, man, it's just so fun. Compost. Who would have thought?

[@darongw]

@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy lol yeah I used to avoid it. But I'm really loving it now 😄

[@heatherb918]

@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy The garden giant mushroom if used in a chicken run will keep it from stinking too!

[@ks1517]

Paul Gautschi also has chickens, which will break down mostly all organic materials. His land also is on a slope grade, which aids in water storage. Mulch, of any kind, is good. When planting seeds, simply pull the mulch back while seeds are germinating.

[@kevinpeik1209]

Your explanation is very good and understandable, question i still have is hay better for mulching for veggie garden because if being less fungal?

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Dried hay is mostly carbon and would still promote good fungal networks. Fresh hay would be very heavy in nitrogen and promote more bacterial dominated beds. However, just be aware that hay will have a large seed load and could introduce invasive weeds into your garden. Also, it tends to mat and get really stinky and anaerobic if you don't turn it. Myself, I would prefer straw as a garden mulch, on top of manure or compost (for the bacterial effect).

[@swimbait1]

I use chips for weed control primarily but also moisture control and they work fantastic.

[@GmoBuelna]

I’ll try wood chips next fall, I’m farming a mango orchard, I saw the moovie few days ago... Best regards from Sinaloa, Mx

[@robertguthrie4113]

I’m happy with my garden works for me first time in about 3-4 years I had to replace my garden with more wood chips but no weeds ever plus the produce taste so much better than ever no chemical’s added

[@ChristopherPisz]

This dude seems wise. I shall listen to him some more!

[@nathanwestfall9412]

I did a woodchip hugulkulture style bed, and tried melons...and the nitrogen seemed fine, they just never fruited. I'll see what happens to this bed next year. I'm still interested in this method, since I have an abundance of woodchips.

[@jnlong1]

excellent articulation, this has driven me completely bonkers about the people I see quitting after one season. I have a BTE food forest that is going on 3 years now and people are inspired when they see it, I've just been very patient.

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

And 3 years is nothing too! I'm on 4 or 5 now and thats nothing also. It just gets better year after year!

[@jnlong1]

@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy completely agree! I'm thrilled to have found your channel. It's encouraging to find like minded growers out there.

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Awesome 👌 thanks for checking me out.

[@samanthamariah7625]

I almost spit out my coffee with the look on your face and the way you said “they’re tillers” 🤣 Hilarious! 🤣

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

LOL

[@ArkansasPilgrim]

The Back to Eden video states that you start with a compost layer (he doesn't "hide" that), then add wood chips, and keep adding wood chips as you go. It also specifies that you want "wood chips" that include the leaves and green growth, not just wood (like you would get from sawdust or chips from splitting firewood), so you get a bit of composting from the wood chip mixture.

[@svelanikolova5776]

The wood chips went through the chickens pooping on it first for his veggie garden.

[@joebobjenkins7837]

Also, notice different "chips" used for his garden vs orchard. The "chips" for his garden are hardly chips at all.

[@svelanikolova5776]

@@joebobjenkins7837 yep

[@ericwilliams1124]

​@@joebobjenkins7837What are they? I was able to get wood chips from a pile for free and am trying to figure out if I got the right ones.

[@pawelkapica5363]

I used it for the first time and it worked great. My soil is teaming with earth worms. I also added organic compost in my vegetable beds and mulched it with wood chips.

[@pawelkapica5363]

Oh and the birds love it because they can scratch and look for food....important the more the merrier

[@raylang2996]

Brilliant!

[@Orangatangerine]

Well seeing as how I just dumped like a hundred pounds of wood chips around my orchard this video makes me pretty happy

[@hollybritton7255]

Great information! My chickens scatter the wood chips I put down.

[@anndennis7163]

We have gardened for more than 30 years and we have discovered that what ever system you want to try you must learn how to do it and then use it for 3 to 5 years.

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Great advice! Nature often doesn't work on impatient human timescales. Even a decade is often not long enough to see the benefit of truly long term forward looking gardening methods. Infact, a timescale on the order of generations is likely the better indicator of how we should grow our food and treat our soils.

[@joanschutter5863]

Very good explanation. I would like to use wood chips in my landscaping and wonder if I need to dig out the bark dust first?

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Nope, just get it nice and wet, and it will be mushroom and bacteria food.

[@namarhodge568]

I think the key factor that people miss in Paul's successful Back to Eden garden method is in the use of clippings with the leafs in it. In my 18 years of trying to garden, my first place had heavy red clay that set up like concrete in the summer. My newer place has a lot of sand. The most important thing i have learned is to have massive amounts of greatly diversified types of organic materials worked into the soil. Wood chips alone is peoples miss understanding, of missing the point. You have to consider leaf, and all kitchen scraps, but dont use meats because the varments will till up every thing. Consider that every thing that lives will die and return to dirt along with all of the nutrients it contained. It is all a life cycle. When i first started trying to garden an elder coworker explained his success this way. Every year he gathers all of the leafs he can get in the fall and tills them a coupple of times during the winter. He never uses feterlizer and has been doing this method for manny years. Be very aware of contaminated hay, straw, and all types of mature. Make sure you know the source. Do some research about this problem.

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Great post. I have a video about aminopyralids from horse manure and hay! You may enjoy it

[@przybyla420]

I have noticed that applying basic logic like: “wouldn’t forests be nitrogen deficient if mulching with high carbon materials ties up nitrogen?” is a really good way to piss off experts (I.e., credentialed amateurs). But my favorite retort to that myth is just to say you piss on them every so often. Saw a deer do it once, seemed a good idea.

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

Lol

[@kimiyekatoshohe9051]

Forest soils are mostly mulched with leaf litter and some woody branches that fall off during wind, they are rich in nitrogen. They don't have carbon rich wood chips falling down so green matter need to be added.

[@przybyla420]

Neither leaf litter nor dead branches have enough nitrogen to make a balanced heap. Forest soils tend to be relatively low in nitrogen I believe. Here in the PNW, moss and lichen bring atmospheric N into their bodies, they and animal and insect manures are the main sources of N in the forest soil, I would venture to guess.

[@przybyla420]

I also think most trees suck the N from the leaf before dropping it, that’s why they turn yellow and why soils don’t go deficient, with tons of green leaves oxidizing.

[@przybyla420]

Agriculture releases a lot of nitrous oxide simply through harvest or cutting green plant parts and letting them turn brown in the air.

[@carolynethrasher4527]

Nice hook! I almost didn’t watch it because I’m pretty happy with wood chips.

[@CanadianPermacultureLegacy]

You should, I explain some mistakes people make, but more about how to fix it and why it works. You may find it interesting.