Candela Obscura surprised me and it’s time you see the light | RPG Review

[@DaveThaumavore]

Errata: Players can earn up to 7 illumination points per session: 1 point per those starting questions as a team, then the 2 or 4 based on individual player Keys. Support the channel by joining my Patreon! www.patreon.com/thaumavore Sign up for my newsletter! bit.ly/ThaumavoreNewsletter

[@olivermeloche2042]

going to be honest, while I appericate the review I don't see a reason to play candela obscura over vaesen or blades, but that gamemaster chest looks amazing wow, I might have to splurge

[@ducminhduong9873]

I'm aware this sentiment is echoed everywhere, but I've never been impressed by the arts, nor the settings of Vaesen or Blades. I don't care for the desolate, Nordic world depicted in Vaesen, it's musty, harrowing and folkloric. I don't care for Blades either, it's a very antiseptic book for one, and the world-building is Shadow and Bone without the flavours of fanatism and otherworldliness. But CO is just the right combination of dreamy and grotesque. Reminds me of Howl's Moving Castle, The Ancient Magus' Bride, Carnival Row and other "gentle", slice-of-life forms of horror. If you've watched those shows, you'll know exactly what I mean. At the same time, you realise CO's potential for more mellow, endearing adventures, while keeping the dread and heartache within reach. People immediately allude to Lovecraft and cosmic existentialism when they hear "horror", which in my opinion, is a shame.

[@olivermeloche2042]

@@ducminhduong9873 Generally for me, and I think for most players tbh, the base worldbuilding of settings isn't really important beyond an initial spark of interest (Vasen being Nordic horror is more then enough of a hook, blades being a Victorian, gloomy heist game is more then enough of a hook) when compared to the actual system and how that helps engross while at the table. No matter how engrossing the world, its a pretty passive element of enjoyment that's better when you view a game as a piece of fiction (like you would a book or tv series), rather then a game piece where the most engrossing element is the other players. If you ever get the chance to play Blades or Vasen with a group that's really into games I think you'd see why people bring up that sentiment more often then they do the flavour of fiction.

[@ducminhduong9873]

​@@olivermeloche2042I understand why the sentiment is there; this book at the core is just watered down Blades with the investigative loop of Vaesen. But perceivably, most echoing the "Give me none of this, I'd rather play that instead!" as a reason to illegitimise any project's existence do it out of embitterment. And to a certain extent, it is justified, I too had expected better, crunchier, more radical from Darrington's first real entry into the space. Perhaps they even deserve it for all the wellness shit they packed into the book. However, it baffles me when people pretend like they would exchange one game for another if the premises are entirely different. I'm aware there exist groups that would play just about any well-reviewed game, but I can confidently tell you that most (coming from some RPG background) care more about the settings than they do rules.

[@chozo-k1c]

@@ducminhduong9873 Vaesen is folkloric, you don't say? The book is literally based on Egerkrans' collection of creatures from Scandinavian folklore :')

[@nickenquist3788]

FitD and FitD-like are definitely not my cup of tea, but all the CO reviews I saw/read seem to focus on everything but the mechanics. I definitely appreciate your review here Dave as I feel like I now actually have information to make an informed decision.

[@DaveThaumavore]

Glad I could deliver the goods.

[@nickenquist3788]

@@DaveThaumavore definitely appreciated. Can’t wait for the next review.

[@nutherefurlong]

Little world details like the ones you mention are so good. Even if you never actually use them they're great imagination sparks that help a world breathe. That's probably the pleasant surprise of this review for me, I wish more RPGs took risks on adding details like that, make things feel less like a flat template and more like an expression of the creators. Livens the medium up for me. Thanks for the review

[@captainfirebeard3340]

I finished running a circle a few weeks back and everyone had a blast . I do agree about watching the candela show can be a great reference piece. Something I absolutely loved is that each group lasts for only 3 sessions. This means there's been a steady flow of various play styles and techniques you can observe and analyze to see if you wanna use them in your games. This includes Gms well respected like Matt Mercer and Aabria Iyengar, but we also see people like one of the designers of the system running it.

[@borderlinebear5509]

You know, this is something that I've wondered about the game and what some people had troubles with... what if the game was made for shorter stories instead and not months/years long campaign? Tbh, I'm looking into these kind of games lately.

[@captainfirebeard3340]

@linebear5509 Biggest benefit I had to this was that it was alot easier to convince friends to try it. I was able to give a rough window (2-3 months) of when the campaign can end and since each "investigation" is encouraged to only last for 1-2 sessions, it can be very easy to end the game with everyone feeling like they did amazing things that didn't use a several month buildup. This also made prep a little painful if the group disbands. Biggest Hurdle I see is that the entire group (gm and players) need to establish trust, expectations, and communication very early. Given the games tone, genre, and mechanics, it can be very easy to feel like a GM is trying to bully or punish you. Players also need to be sure to actually talk to their gm before a problem festers to the point of no return. Soft Skills are prolly gonna be the biggest things that keep players coming back to finish the story. When I did session 0, I made sure the players knew: They are normal people fighting monster beyond normal logic You will not get out of this unscathed, you might die Don't see the marks/scars as punishment or failure, they are mechanics for your character to change If something is bothering you or you feel targeted, please talk to me after the session or send a message, I will think about and come with a ruling or solution before the next session.

[@captainfirebeard3340]

@@borderlinebear5509 made it easier to convince people to try it since I could tell them at the pitch (this will only last for 2-3 months). Big Hurdle is the same with most rule lite systems, Trust and communication for everyone is VERY important. It can be easy for the GM to look like they're bullying players (especially if they are more used to High Fantasy/ Power Fantasy RPG). If the players and the gm arent talking about problems they are having when playing, the game can fizzle out quick.

[@ultravanta]

Cool review, as always. Although your video doesn't invalidate criticism from other content creators, it's nice to see more emphasis on its mechanics.

[@JoshVrl]

Great work as usual. I am glad that "pick up and play" horror improv night game was the direction that they decided to go with. Because at my life stage, that's what we might have more time for. But, I wish that they deviated more from BitD in their system set up and resolution because I am very curious what more of a focus the investigative horror aspect can twist it into (rather than the bones that come from a heist game). And while they do have the Gilded dice, it sticks out to me as this meta-breaking mechanic I'm not a fan of in this kind of game. But I like their Circle mechanics, and the world design as a whole. It is a shame that they didn't go with the free FitD licensing, because to me that will still be a tarnish from a system that advertised itself as something new. Though I am glad that there is no bad blood with John Harper, it is still an unfortunate professional faux-pas.

[@MarioReischer]

Awesome review and editing, as always! At first I was very sceptical about Candela Obscura but I do love Blades in the Dark and I love the setting and premise of Vaesen. I never grew into the mechanics of YZE that's why I have a new perspective on CO. It's what I always longed for, a Vaesen like game with Blades mechanics! Candela Obscura isn't perfect but a great way to get into the hobby or horror investigation RPGs. :-)

[@_mawburn]

As much as I appreciate the video on Candala Obscura, this might be the first time where I am probably more interested in the ad than the video. I've watched that part 3 times by now. lol They ought to offer a faux-leather option too. While the leather thing is something I'd jump on, I know there are a LOT of people that would kill the project for them.

[@olivermeloche2042]

me too lol

[@andrewcarper3702]

Dave, thank you for once again providing a fair and deep review that actually clarifies things.

[@DaveThaumavore]

Glad you appreciate it!

[@opscontaylor8195]

@13:56 - It's actually up to 7 if they do well. 1 point per those starting questions as a team, then the 2 or 4 based on individual player Keys. I just got to run this first time this last weekend, we had a freaking blast. So much better than D20 Framework to me (but my tables tend to be more Story Based, we have a lot of 1990s World of Darkness hours).

[@DaveThaumavore]

Thanks for the correction. I'll add it to the pinned comment!

[@AnarchicArachnid]

Have you examined Wretched Époque ? I've been looking at it and patches a few of the rough patches I feel man have with CO.

[@DaveThaumavore]

I will check it out.

[@AnarchicArachnid]

@@DaveThaumavore hope you enjoy it

[@Cronirios]

Thanks for the review. After all the others I had seen, this has given me a better idea of what the game is and what its problems are, which aren't really big problems at all

[@deusvault5732]

I am kinda glad this video is made. I never hated candela obscura but I do feel it is to close to vaesen in story and tone to make big games for me. I'd rather play vaesen but I am interested in playing the game at some point. Maybe I'll find something I like I can use in vaesan

[@freddyhellberg]

Yeah, Vaesen is much better product. Altough I realize some consumers will jump on the bandwagon and buy Candela Obscura just because they have a large community of "critters".

[@paulunderhill550]

Mercer did say this game is not meant for long campaigns

[@JH-dh2ws]

I mean technically you can run a long term campaign if you don’t mind creating new characters after an arc, and treat the setting and organization as a character.

[@dakotah7683]

Sounds terrible

[@chromeego7903]

Blades in the Dark's gang sheet fills up over a campaign and so there is a built in 'end state' in these kind of games.

[@JH-dh2ws]

@@chromeego7903 I’m talking about the overall organization, not your circle

[@chromeego7903]

@@JH-dh2ws My experience is with Blades in the Dark so not exactly the same. I mean the gang sheet (which some may reguard as the real protaganist in the game, as it is the only thing that must link all the sessions together as players/members get booted/turned into chum). The gang sheet fills up and then kind of plateaus out at a natural end point to the campaign. At which point players are usually ready to see what another gang type might feel like.

[@Neowis3]

Thank you for focusing on the actual game instead of the political/social drama/discussion surrounding this game. It has some interesting mechanics like the Circle aka group having it's own progression. Are there other systems with similar mechanics?

[@lawrl777]

Blades in the Dark and other FitD games, in Blades you actually pick a "class" for your Crew (ex smugglers vs a cult) that determines both potential upgrades and common missions

[@theatheistbear3117]

CO is a halfassed Blades in the Dark/PBTA fame.

[@crowgoblin]

One of the problems originally was that fans of Blades in the Dark felt that DP clearly ripped off that game and there was no acknowledgment at all to John Harper. It wasn’t until all the backlash from BitD fans that DP decided to add a small note about their inspiration from John Harper’s game.

[@someone1999]

Anyone who’s fairly knowledgeable about Blades in the Dark would be familiar with how there are many games from different developers based on Blades’ mechanics. And wasn’t the “backlash” based on the early release quick start rules? I’d be surprised if they didn’t mention Blades in the Dark and John Harper in the final book, but complaining about not having an acknowledgement in the quick start rules is ridiculous.

[@_mawburn]

When was this? Because I remember when they first announced it with the Quick Start and seeing a post on Twitter about this being inspired by both Vaesen and BitD within the same hour. I feel like you're just making this up. I remember a few of us on Discord thinking it was really cool since we had all came to same conclusion and that was a bit of validation.

[@crowgoblin]

@@_mawburn There’s plenty of videos on KZbin with various peoples reactions, you only have to look.

[@lawrl777]

@@someone1999 CO adds Drives and shakes up how Resisting works while simplifying injuries in Marks, but even into the final release they "tip their hat to" BitD and Harper rather than admit it's a FitD game at the core

[@lugaruclone]

@@someone1999 those games refer to themselves as 'forged in the dark' not 'we created a whole cool new system of our own'

[@Gopher86]

Hey Dave. You need to take a look at Crown and Skull, the new game from Runehammer! It is such a well written and interesting "adjustment" to DnD.

[@razorboy251]

Yes, please take a look at Crown and Skull! I finished reading the book last night, coming away really impressed (though also puzzled in other respects). Super interesting and opinionated RPG!

[@jeffreyquigley]

I will third this!

[@laurataylor4510]

Thank you for this honest and open-minded review.

[@NomadOfEndings]

I think this video review may be one of the most times you've used the term "Homebrew" in regards to fixing things.... That's definitely a red flag for this game if you have to become an "Assistant Developer" for an RPG.

[@GamerGarm]

Yeah, that's because the game is incomplete.

[@Thefootqueenie]

That’s just D&D in a nutshell. Wonder where they got the inspiration from

[@theatheistbear3117]

It's beyond incompetent and showcases just how unfinished this ''TTRRPG'' is.

[@AdlerMow]

Why not just give it a try and see? Why people treat this rpg like it was nazi propaganda or something? I guarantee it won't kill you to try.

[@GamerGarm]

@@AdlerMow Yeah, it only tried to browbeat you by chastising about "gamefying" mental illness while also gamefying physical disabilites and deformity. The double whammy of tought police and hypocrisy

[@ger_hynes]

Thanks for a really detailed and balanced review. I'm excited to run Candela Obscura for my group. I totally agree that more on the ground detail in NewFaire might have been more helpful for a GM than high level lore about the Fairelands.

[@Batterydennis]

This books ruleset felt a bit 'light' but my group had fun for a few sessions. The big highlight for me as a GM was the setting, world building, and art.

[@AnarchicArachnid]

This is the biggest issue I have with several newer systems , it feels like "okay I played this once or twice ...and I feel like that's all the game has right now 😅"

[@Forever_Muffin]

​@@AnarchicArachnid I feel thats a problem with mindset rather than the systems themselves. Not all systems are made to be "the one and only you need for all your rpg needs". Some of them are just written for when you feel like playing that style in particular, and that's fine, it's not a problem at all and shouldn't be seen as one.

[@AnarchicArachnid]

@@Forever_Muffin thing is imo there's better ones in this style (edit: namely ones that aren't meant for long form or main system play ). In the PTBA, blades in the dark, storyteller and other systems including the one I recommended Dave in my own comment ,Wretched Epoch , that do what this is trying but better and more indepth while also allowing narrative flexibility. If this was the a setting book for any of the systems or lines I mentioned I feel like this would be fine but as an rpg for this type of thing it's bare bones.

[@daved.8483]

Great review, as per usual!

[@DaveThaumavore]

Thanks! 🙏

[@FoolsGil]

I've been hearing all kinds of decisive reviews for CO. If a second edition is made I hope all issues are addressed

[@KyleMaxwell]

If I played in person, I think I'd definitely want that GM kit. Maybe again someday...

[@williamdavis7274]

Dave is a treasure

[@jansasawi1466]

I don't see any reason to pick this up over a game like Vaesen or Blades in the dark. Considering how both of those games are complete and polished requiring no homebrew fixes, and that Candela Obscura seems to be doing nothing different or interesting to facilitate the setting or style of play. Additionally both Vaesen and Blades better equip players and game masters to run "dark" games and how to handle the themes appropriately. While it may not have bothered you many people are put off at a book that hypocritically talks down to its audience, virtue signaling "allyship" to the differently abled community out of one side of its mouth, whilst immediately turning around and saying/doing the very things it deems unacceptable. If their next RPG is anything like this I would and would recommend skipping books from darrington press for having cultivated a reputation of condescending, low quality, unoriginal shlock. Disappointing as I enjoy the animated show and some of their live games.

[@frankpeters651]

Totally agree with you here. I just read the whole book of blades in the dark the last couple of weeks and it feels to awfully similar to me. Would rather play blades

[@max4750]

This sums up my opinions as well. Seems inferior to products that already exist. Candela obsecura setting is also very uninteresting

[@ballelort87]

Finally a positive review ❤

[@theatheistbear3117]

A positive review for a product like this doesn't make me very confident in Dave being able to judge things objectively.

[@ajaxplunkett5115]

The game doesn't have enough rule mechanics " threat " to be scary, or horrifying to work for Me. It's default game world also doesn't have the Verisimilitude ( or real world ugliness ) that game masters and players would want to utilize for a Horror rpg. PbtA or adjacent type games ( Blades in the Dark - Monster of the Week ) also have this " distance from real emersion in game play- As if you are an actor playing a character on a tv show about gothic horror rather than being the character in a gothic ( gaslight ) horror game. Too much - Mitigation - of actual dice rolls also- If you have dice - make the rolls be meaningful.

[@skander222]

Is there no formal system for position and effect?

[@kalleendo7577]

Awesome!

[@xgonne]

The one positive thing I can say about Candela Obscura is that I bought Vaesen, Blades in the Dark and Wretched Epoche afterward; all three of which are vastly superior games with profoundly better production values, ethos's, game design principles. So, the TTRP games industry got four times the purchases out of me due to one book which, in my estimation, is approaching loathsome. CO is less of a "cousin" and more a Frankenstein's Monster... and not a good one.

[@Sanguivore]

Don’t care at all for CO or anything from Darrington Press, but holy heck, that Gamemaster’s Chest looks amazing! I can’t wait to see some updates on that one.

[@MaestroOblidemon]

You can see the light just by reading vaesen and Blades in the dark. Candela Obscura should just be honest to what it is: a mod/setting to those two books. It's not a Game, just like que wouldn't call Ravenloft a Game instead of a D&D setting.

[@Jescribano1]

Hi Dave! Thanks for the video, as fun as always :) Did you play this game before reviewing? Thanks!

[@impcit5717]

My group and I had a very opposite reaction to the worldbuilding of Candela Obscura. We felt it removed any sort of nuance and unique attitudes from the citizens of New Faire. For instance, New Faire is supposed to be free of discrimination based on immutable characteristics yet it fought a massive resource war with Otherwere and has an state religion based on a nuclear family structure. There’s no discussion on how New Faire citizens might be prejudicial to outsiders or view certain relationships as taboo. That is ignoring themes of isolation or being a fish out of water which are prevalent in the horror genre. There’s also the fact that New Faire is supposed to be a melting pot of cultures but we never see those distinct cultures. There’s no clash between different groups, no merging of cultures. The worldbuilding is very wide but ultimately shallow considering how much the book is dedicated to its setting.

[@albertcapley6894]

Thank you for reviewing the product for what it is and not going on a self righteous rant about how much you hate Matt Mercer. I never watched any of his stuff and have no opinions about him except that he seems to be a boegyman for a lot of people for some reason, and it's entirely un compelling for me to hear people cry about how a game hurts their feelings just by existing.

[@DaveThaumavore]

Thanks for your appreciation of my efforts with this particular video!

[@ironwolf56]

I mean... it's nice you liked it but it literally doesn't do anything nearly as good as Vaesan and Blades in the Dark do far, far better so I feel like you might be blinded by the "from Critical Role people" thing here.

[@max4750]

I'm glad he gave the book a fair chance unlike a few of the other videos I saw but he definitely seems to cut them way too much slack at times. Which feels weird to say

[@BobMcDowell]

You didn't mention how an attack roll against a werewolf and against a grandmother have the same chance of success or failure.

[@lilesindiecorner]

This is a weird criticism to me. There are plenty of cinematic RPGs out there that don‘t concern themselves with a fighting mechanic and enemy stat blocks and such. But, you know, common sense still applies, and the consequences of rolls and fighting scenes are a collaboration between players and GM. And a fighting scene with a grandma would have different consequences than a fight with a werewolf. We all know grandma would decimate you. It‘s totally fine if you aren‘t into those games but why act like that‘s a bug in the system?

[@brettnause5411]

I have two main problems with this games, and I think both of them are glaring enough that the game is not just a no-buy, it's one to be completely avoided. For starters, this is a FitD game and needed to be under the FitD license, the backlash surrounding the rules preview was not about the politics, it was about the fact that is is a FitD game that tries to pretend it isn't. Politics are just an easy excuse Critical Role, because Critical Role and Darington Press are the same thing, has used to cover up the fact that they basically stole a whole system, made minor, and in my opinion for the worse, and tried to pass it off as original; them tipping their hats to John Harper as an inspiration is not the same as giving credit. Secondly, despite them wanting to leverage politics for their benefit, both the internal politics of the world and the commentary it presents are incredibly shallow. Addressing the latter first, it's incredibly clear to me that CR is playing both sides and trying desperately for the widest appeal possible, in particular the consistent commentary about large, militant, and over-reaching police forces being a problem falls very flat when the large, militant, and over-reaching police force in game are extensively your allies. Addressing the internal politics, everything is black and white, clearly CR can't stand the thought that anyone but your party could meaningfully do good and The Pyre is the perfect example, this is a world where any and all magic is objectively evil, and incredibly dangerous and corrupting force that can and has ended civilizations. Therefore, fitting to their name, The Pyre has decided to fight fire with fire, burning the candle at both ends to fight back. Candela Obscura as an organization is rife with corruption and is consistently putting lives at risk through their unwillingness to deal with a threat, and yes The Pyre's more extreme methods are to be frowned upon, but at the same time they are addressing the problem. In trying to make a group that works for the same goal as CO while being opposed by methods, CR created a group that are not only better at dealing with the overarching threat of the setting, but also far more interesting than the organization you play as. This type of lazy and poorly thought out writing and no-opinion politics is something I've come to expect from CR, and is why I avoid them. Overall if this game interests you mechanically, play BitD or some other FitD game. If the idea of being a monster/witch/magic hunter/investigator is what interests you, play Vaesen. If it's the setting that interests you I really have to ask why because it's not interesting, as I mentioned before it's flat and poorly thought out. The only reason to play CO over BitD or Vaesen, or anything else, is if you're a "critter" and too blind to acknowledge glaring issues both with the game and CR as a whole.

[@dakotah7683]

WTF is EctoPunk?

[@DaveThaumavore]

It's a term associated with themes related to the paranormal, supernatural, and the unknown. For example, in the RPG community, it involves summoning and binding ghosts for various purposes. The term is used to describe a genre or theme that combines elements of the supernatural with other genres, such as science fiction or fantasy.

[@alderaancrumbs6260]

The infantilizing lecturing about madness and roles you play utterly killed it for me. I don’t need anyone telling me how to be a morally-sound person, especially actors. Mechanically, it’s an unpolished BitD, but even worse.

[@kevoreilly6557]

It’s a great idea for a game, but it’s horribly organized and written. Daggerheart is heading down the Sam path