History of WWI Primer 119: Madsen 1905 Part 2 Documentary

Othais and Mae delve into the story of this WWI classic. Complete with history, function, and live fire demonstration.
C&Rsenal presents its WWI Primer series; covering the firearms of this historic conflict one at a time in honor of the centennial anniversary. Join us every other Tuesday!
Additional reading:
candrsenal.com...
The Kaiser's Army: The German Army in World War One
By David Stone
Jahrbücher für die Deutsche Armee und Marine: Januar bis Juni, 1908
Keim
Ammunition data thanks to DrakeGmbH
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Animation by Vbbsmyt
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[@DiggingForFacts]

You know you're deep into the gun weeds when your buddy hands you a P90 and says "it's just like the Madsen".

[@jeffreyroot7346]

Or when the buddy is Gun Jesus.

[@drewgates1167]

P90 with fa and long civilian barrel?

[@coaxill4059]

@@drewgates1167 It still wouldn't be that similar, but hey I guess in comparison...

[@blueman688]

Othais: may we have to be professional Othais one minute later: ya it has that spindly doohickey there

[@robashton8606]

I know, right? Everybody _knows_ the correct term for that is a spindly whojamaflip.

[@andyoreo333]

bluebeard101 streaming spindly doohickey is the official name for whatchamcallit in rotational parallel to the doohickey. It true I read on the internet.

[@jimvandemoter6961]

@@andyoreo333 What's this 'internet' thingy? I use the webosphereical locationyplace.

[@il6993]

Very technical term

[@seangannon6081]

We really need Recoil Rifle Syndicate shirts... that might be the most badass company name ever

[@jacobfarley434]

Great band name

[@troelschristensen8562]

@@jacobfarley434 Apparently Mærsk Lines A/s doesn't think so.

[@warrenbeard4546]

I always enjoy your presentations Othias always seems to have obtained a lot of facts and historical information, in addition I love how Miss Mae is able to smile the way she does while demonstrating the many weapons. I truly love shooting however I don't think that I could have a happy smile with some of guns that Mae operates and she does it with a smile!

[@Garden-Guns]

I concur

[@AppalachianCryptidDoge]

fund it.

[@terrysmith7751]

It is impressive that the first lmg worked as well as it did, and had such a long service life. The history of its development is great fun. I enjoyed these two episodes.

[@danschneider9921]

Yay! Part 2. Sleep is for the weak and the Madsenless

[@ferdblu1946]

Same, tomorrow-me will hate me

[@NAP51DMustang]

Othais: You can get it up Mae: Yeah but you can't keep it up. I'm seriously disappointed in zero "That's what she said"'s during this part.

[@patrikhjorth3291]

Moderators, can we get this comment pinned please?

[@deltavee2]

Don't forget we're dealing with GoogleTube here which is apparently "personed" by humourless virgins.

[@egbertpopken5580]

2:11 "At time we will see most of Scandinavia adopt these guys........" shows a dutch KNIL unit in Indonesia. I know the Americans are bad geography but I hoped better of you Othais ;P Keep the good work guys!

[@ZGryphon]

"You _better_ whip it." - Othais, 2020 (to remove an unspent round, you must whip it / it will want to stick around, unless you whip it)

[@patrikhjorth3291]

"...all these little LEGO pieces hanging off it..." May, did you know that LEGO is a danish invention? If so, congratulations on a great "undercover" pun.

[@SubutaiTuul]

​@cody sonnet false, firstly Konstrukteur wasnt a brand thats merely the name of what you called the toys that was based around building and by the way there were no bricks at that time, the toys were completly different in their design. the whole Brick ordeal was indeed legos design. we also called those type of types for that here its just Konstruktør. just because there was a toy before lego based around building doesnt mean they didnt invent the bricks. which they did. lego was an overall better toy than the older constructor type of toys. but yes constructor types of toys wasnt a new concept. but lego massively improved on it with THEIR design thus making them the inventors of the lego toys we know today.

[@blairbuskirk5460]

Mae is really bringing the puns in this episode. Imagine taking that Madsen to a match and having to show clear after a stage. To setup a section for maximum field of view for strafing action would be to anchor your left flank against an expedient physical obstacle which would restrict the enemies ability to assail your left. Of course a belt fed system tends to provide better effect on a beaten zone firing pattern, while lighter mag fed LMGs are quicker to deploy in reactionary action to surprise encounters.

[@CenlaSelfDefenseConcepts]

Ian did it with a semi auto Madsen rebuild

[@PoindexterTactical]

I would like to hear a small sampling of Mae’s unprofessional puns.

[@ethanyeager2490]

Just watch the outtakes on project lightning

[@zaqzilla1]

It seems like mag design is the big killer of many weapon systems.

[@asteroidrules]

Design and manufacture. Magazines see quite a lot of wear down, and most gun makers assumed external magazines would be disposable parts used once or twice and then replaced. This meant both that plenty of magazines came out of the factory in less than stellar shape because it was assumed they wouldn't really need to be used very much, and that most magazines that were in good condition have long since passed their prime.

[@IRMacGuyver]

The entire story just reminds me of the How I Met Your Mother episode where they're stuck at airport security and Barney just keeps repeating that they're "international businessmen on a very important international business trip."

[@ninus17]

at the 35:33 min mark. "you can get it up, but unless you are a big ol'e dude its not easy keeping it up" that sounds kinda dirty out of context

[@bofoenss8393]

Lego pieces on a Danish gun... Mae is full of puns today! :-)

[@EldarKinSlayer]

I have always been impressed by this gun, especially considering it pre dates the Colt Potato Digger.

[@DiehardMechWarrior]

I would, 150%, dead-goddamn-ass, watch an entire episode of Mae making nothing but gun puns about a particular firearm. Please, for the love of whatever gods keep you, C&Rsenal, let this happen.

[@dudesqr]

Keep up the great work and thank you.

[@thompson1353]

Hi guys, I have a photo of an arditi company training with what looks like a madsen, these lmg were absolutely used on the Italian front

[@greybayles7955]

They still might not have been fielded. Theres been a few adopted training only weapons. Then again I could see the Arditi getting basically whatever they wanted.

[@jeffreyroot7346]

@@greybayles7955 or acquiring it.

[@eutenhomuitosnomes5485]

@@greybayles7955 I guess they captured some from the Austrians and tested them, Italy lacked a standard LMG at the time and experimented with some interesting concepts (Like the Vilar Perosa, SIA mod 1918 and what seems to be a shortened belt-fed version of the Perino).

[@cg8212]

Plot twist: Primer 1911 will NOT feature the Colt M1911. Hopefully. Probably. Still watching.

[@allangibson8494]

Probably be Norwegian M1914....

[@anthonyhayes1267]

What's a 1911

[@Legitpenguins99]

@@anthonyhayes1267idk i think some old irrelevant peice of crap

[@AfrikaKorp42]

Probably last of the WWI series

[@julemandenudengaver4580]

@@anthonyhayes1267 a gun by Savage

[@tjanda2024]

no mention of the Italians using them? There's one in the Carabineri museum in Rome.

[@historyarmyproductions]

Yay, Love this show. So interesting!

[@crankysports]

So glad you are still around doing these videos! Best History ever :) Pew Pew History

[@rollerdragon]

42:45 THE PERSPECTIVE !!! in this convo shot makes the madsen look like a 3x training rifle!!

[@baastex]

C&Rsenal I thank you for this birthday gift ! Something great to wake up to

[@maewinchester2030]

Happy birthday!

[@baastex]

@@maewinchester2030 Thank you !

[@crankygunreviews]

Mae’s sigh at the end of every shooting segment is the best lol

[@shaunw9092]

Jeez, I wonder if they will be able to get a short barrelled Dutch KNIL Madsen shown at 2:18 for the WWII episodes.

[@willcaputo1]

I almost feel like a side mounted magazine, like from the Sten or FG-42, might have helped to simplify the loading system.

[@tinyprince]

The problem with that is that it would shift the center of gravity to the side, which makes it very annoying to aim accurately, especially from a bipod.

[@Hybris51129]

Those work mostly because 9x19mm is fairly light or in the FG-42's case the mag doesn't stick out much. In any case side mount mags disturb the balance of the gun a lot and without taking a severe reduction of mag capacity a side fed Madsen would be a awkward handing gun unless you were prone and bipoded up which somewhat defeats the light machine guns mobility.

[@greybayles7955]

@@Hybris51129 Also keep in mind this was crew served. Its a lot easier to load from the top from either side whereas a side feeder can be annoying if your loader is on the other side. Plus gravity assisted feed and ejection help quite a bit.

[@asteroidrules]

The weird thing is the magazine sort of is side mounted already. The mag is offset to the side of the action, an the feed mechanism pulls a cartridge laterally over into line with the chamber.

[@julemandenudengaver4580]

@@greybayles7955 if you see 9.april.. a Danish movie on occupation day in ww2.. there's a couple of Madsen in action.. (a bicycle company) and a 20mm Madsen canon in a sidecar mounted on a Nimbus Here's is it.. both are in here kzbin.info/www/bejne/kH_Jg2aiZa-WjKc

[@McNubbys]

Yay another many pews episode(popcorn)😊 Also Maye..."You want to put it where the ejection port is"(giggles uncontrollably)

[@Nipplator99999999999]

the shoulder brace is to allow the gunner to maintain a ready position without the muscle strain during long guard sessions.

[@simonwinnik6655]

thank you, the Franz von Rintelen's story is fascinating

[@johncoffin9354]

Considering the (very) long stories of development and de-buggin that almost any functional military firearm goes through, it is positively amazing that the Madsen was so successful, practically out of the chute.

[@jyttesteenbruhn3211]

As you probably know, the first Danish version was the M71903. The weapon got far more widespread through the different Army branches after WW1 as an updated version M/24 in 8x85R like the Krag-Jørgensen M/1889/10s. Their fate was also very much like the Krag-Jørgensens - they got stolen by the Geman occupants in the latter part of WW2. After the war the Army re-armed with the "Maiden Madsen" M/48 in 7.62x63mm (30.06) so it would use the same ammo as the new standard rifle M/50 (M1 Garand). Those Light Machine Guns (as they were now known) were replaced by the LMG M/62 - the Danish version of the Rheinmetall MG3 (as you know the 7.62x51mm modernized version of the MG42) in the early sixties. Please reach out if you want to know more about Danish service weapons.

[@Franky46Boy]

One of the first photos shows Dutch colonial infantry (KNIL) in the Dutch East Indies with the Madsen.

[@SeanPwnery]

Professional Puns are the best Puns... never stop delivering them!

[@davidegaleotti94]

Those fishy Danes tho! They sold the stuff to each and everyone of the parties, got paid what?! Three times for guns nobody got and still retained their neutrality. Damn, the Swiss at SIG would be eating their hats for envy back then.

[@danditto4864]

I got my C&R Arsenal Madsen patches today and wore them on my jacket to the rifle range. People loved them and they were the source of lots of inquires and comments from fellow fans. Well made, quickly delivered, thanks, loving them!!

[@randymagnum143]

38:45 Barrel shroud?

[@WildBillCox13]

A 1st class episode, you guys. A great integration of your experiences with various period weapons quantified as the immortal question: "would you take this into battle?" I learn more from these "boots on the ground" segments than I do from company pamphlets and glowing accounts paid for by various pundits, or negative reviews from trolls and ankle biters.

[@KPen3750]

I need to sleep for class registrations Part two of Madsen uploaded: Well I ain't sleeping

[@williamprince1114]

I'm surprised that America did not trial these. It would have been interesting to have a 30-06 version with Pershing's Calvary in Mexico.

[@luisnunes2010]

Someone needed to shoot Crozier first...

[@jefferyindorf699]

@Jake Cain we want to sell weapons, but not to be used in warfare. Yeah, right. How does that work?

[@xthee_0nly_1x11]

There was a .30-06 version at some point. Not sure how rare they were.

[@RonJohn63]

50:45 As a fortress weapon, wouldn't you have another machine gunner off to your left, plus a loader directly on your left?

[@kevlarandchrome]

1:14:10 Holy crap, it's the HD DVD of light machine guns!

[@jameslawrie3807]

An interesting source for anyone interested in the Madsen is: "THE MADSEN MACHINE RIFLE: MAIN CHARACTERISTICS, ORGANISATION AND TACTICAL USE" written in The Great War. Interestingly enough it seems to only reference a 40 round magazine and gives pretty glowing reports from tests by the British Cavalry and other Imperial forces (New Zealander and Canadian I think from memory). It should be available on the net.

[@luisgonzalez7236]

There were 2 orders placed by Mexico on 7 x 57 mm back in 1911 to the danish by 100 units and 1934 contract by 80 units. General Serrano visited the danish factory back in 1925 and planned to purchase over 2,000 units and 40,000 magazines on the same caliber.

[@bradygagnon2679]

did anyone notice he said "the shoulder thing that goes up "

[@bradygagnon2679]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/paTTf4WhZ9qAabc

[@read811]

@@bradygagnon2679 Oh my goodness! Now we know where those scary devices originated. We definitely need legislation to control 115 year old technology. Thank you for clearing this up.

[@JanXXVI]

"There's some hesitasion in truly how long lived this gun could be"... The gun has been in service for over a 100 years... and is still in service.. Search this thing up on en.wiki and you see how many wars this gun has been in. It was produced from 1902 to 1955, so over 50 years of production. I guess it was pretty long lived.

[@martijnmeijer8270]

Are there plans for making a video on the British Martini Henry?

[@RhodeIslandWildlife]

if Ian is Gun Jesus, you guys are the Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers of classic firearms. (Remember Ginger did everything Fred did, only backwards)

[@Andvare]

And in heels

[@RhodeIslandWildlife]

Mae in heels ...humm

[@gunsbeersmemes]

Othias. Gun Moses. The Bob Ross of The Great War.

[@fien111]

"And we're gonna bring up a slightly different Swedish variant here, cause everyone needs a friend"

[@j.e.v.5016]

In Finnish, Madsen would be called "pikakivääri" ("rapid rifle"), for it being automatic and feeding from a magazine. Kevyt konekivääri aka light machine gun would mean something belt-fed. Pikakivääri was intended as SAW, not for heavy and sustained firepower.

[@kaiserbillhelm9158]

As regards the Bulgarian Madsens.... wasn't there a rimmed version of 7x57? I thought it was a sporting round.. but maybe that would account for the curvature of the magazine.... also probably an easy enough conversion to make em into regular 7x57?

[@craigharness3156]

Silly question was the reason the grouping was to the right is due to the sights being on one side?

[@jonrolfson1686]

Wonder if being pintle-mounted as a wall-gun would have lessened the recoil-trigger induced shot dispersion? (Not to suggest that a Madsen part 3 with wall building is required)

[@dennisandersson5552]

If I remember correctly the German Luftstreitkräfte used some 7X57 in the form of the Mondragon semi auto rifles bought from Switzerland early on in the war as observers guns..

[@Lomi311]

This is not a scholarly source but in in an old video Ian on FW said they were converted to 7.92 so the Germans would want them and they only acquired 40 for trials.

[@b.griffin317]

13:30 Dear lord, what happend to that target? 😳

[@ZGryphon]

Looks like a few rounds went low and threw up some mud.

[@erg0centric]

Today I learned to stop cupping my ejection port 🤔 38:00

[@smilingwolf1980]

42:12 I want pictures of this please!

[@wastedangelematis]

Quick ! keep pressing refresh after a couple of minutes to speedrun all ads before it gets... "KZbin'd".

[@guidor.4161]

Why didn't they make higher sights on these for a better view to the left?

[@FantadiRienzo]

Great episode. Didn't know the guy from Lord of the Rings designed a machine gun.

[@MeA-aSchwalbe]

And I was just thinking about when the new video would come out.

[@jeopardy4100]

I wish I had a buddy with a Madsen so I could refuse to walk down range. At least I would be at the range with a Madsen.

[@johndaniels1197]

If the intention is to go full auto, you can use the first shot every time to make sure your aim is good before letting off a burst. Sure, it takes some getting used to, but I don't see it as an inherently bad thing. Just something you have to train with.

[@stevenhoman2253]

surprised no ones mentioned the holy terror of long recoil systems yet.

[@ironmaidenforever665]

Your danish is impeccable, at least to my norwegian ears

[@halo7oo]

It has the shoulder thing that goes up!!!

[@KRN762]

I was there at the SOS on Friday...what day were you guys there?

[@GlowRiderzEntertainment]

I have a Madsen LMG and I find using the anti aircraft sights were so much more accurate with those sights so definitely might want to try out the AA-sights on it while shoulder firing or prone , and a tip to notice is the gun kinda shifts side to side while in burst fire or just flat out full auto so my only guess is that would be because of the barrel moves back pus the ejector arm that might be what’s causing the shifting side to side but the only reason why you can’t sense that is because the most feeling that your feeling while firing it is the barrel going back , but that’s my hunch as in thought or opinion

[@stephenbond1990]

I think Gun Jesus tried shooting it from the shoulder in one of his videos if that helps.

[@waynestackpoole3652]

Note to Mae, if you learn to sight in the more advanced style where you keep both eyes open and sight up on the left hand image, you would have plenty of peripheral view. I;ve been going to mention this many times as you are an awesome shooter but still use the "beginner' left eye closed style of aiming. I remember when a mate told me about this way and it only takes a couple of sessions to learn it. Hope this is helpful, keep up the good work guys.

[@jefffradsham2297]

over the shoulder madsen holder

[@maskot5pu]

I think I have a Madsen magazine loader.maybe someone has pictures of this loader for madsen?

[@mrking7342]

unless you are a big old dude... Its hard to keep it up. TYTY LOL @35:00 about. XD

[@oldesertguy9616]

I really wish you guys had the capability to, having shot all of the weapons you have so far, go back and rethink the capabilities of the various weapons. I've seen some of your thoughts and ideas develop and change as you went through the various platforms, cartridges, etc. To already have the experience of firing other, similar weapon systems would give you so much more insight into how they compare.

[@bigmal1690]

The trigger is like 1 shot then full auto and trying to do bursts is a lot of 1 shot 1st then full almost everytime

[@reddevilparatrooper]

From the conversation to me is like shooting the M-60 machinegun. It always a deliberate pull to the rear for full auto. The M-60 I could pull off a few single shots that is I have replaced the trigger sear and operation rod with newer ones. The BREN gun operates the same way but I think the trigger sear and operation rod are heat treated much harder to fire single shots in transition fire. The later WWII production BARs work the same way by slowing down their rate of fire. The Madsen 1905 is a true automatic rifle for an infantry squad armed with bolt action rifles to support their fire either in defense or offense. The French discovered this towards the end of WWI and building the M24/29 after their Chauchat. The Americans trying to field their M1918 BARs at the closing of WWI. I believe the Danes are forefront of this thinking in infantry tactics before anyone else

[@odanewilson]

I need 100000 of those to buy ok

[@KPen3750]

Was this example you have part of the Austrian service?

[@gabespiro8902]

“You can only sell to the British Empire” “Oh no, such a tiny market, how will I ever turn a profit?”

[@queondahijodelaching]

Off work early for this!

[@mogwopjr]

When I have my Madsen out, I always lay prone with it in my living room! @28:08

[@williamlloyd3769]

Interesting that current approval process to release various EU weapons to Ukraine has lots of pinky swearing. PS - Just working my way through back catalog of videos. What an epic series!

[@lotusdev]

Unless I'm deluded (feel free to correct) I'm sure I once read that the Germans, in WW2, developed a belt-feed conversion for these. The idea seems vaguely mind-boggling but I'm sure my memory ain't that bad. I'm guessing any such a conversion involved radical metal surgery and discarded a lot of the original object.

[@tedariesdaguro6517]

Speaking of field use, it could have been interesting if actually had some Brazilian police give their testimonies, considering they are still using the gun recently.

[@timetellersunion3711]

Jesus bless you all during these End times, you guys make great videos and hope you all do well in life

[@janjensen4719]

Den er fremstillet for over 100 år siden . Så rolig nu . Alt var nyt dengang og altså ikke slidt .

[@FantadiRienzo]

1) the 2019-book "Deutsche Maschinengewehre" from Frank Bochholz and Thomas Brüggen has a whole chapter about the Madsen. According to them, they were all captured at the eastern front. There are also some quotes from German reactions to the Madsen at the eastern front. Quote: " When Captain Eckardt first heard fire from Madsen machine guns of the Russian cavalry at the beginning of the Battle of Tannenberg in August 1914 as leader of MG Company 18, his reaction was: 'Well, folks, this wretched stutter is Russian machine gun fire! ' [...] So writes the first lieutenant a. D. Eckardt, the then advisor to the rifle testing commission, on the combat value of the Madsen machine gun: 'The often expressed belief(...) to hold down the enemy it would be sufficient to have a weapon that simulates machine gun fire, if it does not have full effect, is a fallacy". 2) Rommel wrote a memoir about his WW1 experience ("Infantry attacks" in English. Very interesting read.). If I remember it correctly, he mentions "our new light machine guns" in Romania, but no "Muskets" or "Madsens". At that time was the leader of a mountain battalion, so all the Romanian battles take place in the mountains. But there probably were a few Russian Madsen in Romania, and Russian equipment usually got lost very quickly.

[@Lemonjellow]

How has no one made a movie about Franz von Rintelen staring Adam Baldwin?!

[@asteroidrules]

Is there a particular reason why there doesn't seem to be much of an industry making reproduction magazines for historical firearms? They always seem to be the first part to go.

[@robertfox1401]

We want May's unprofessional puns.

[@monkeyabattoir8501]

I have a '46 and a Monopod. Great upgrades BUT... The bipod is horrible.

[@stevenhoman2253]

i believe ive read that the japanese used these as well, source unknow; however perhaps there russian captured weapons. the thai miliitary operated had them till at least the 50s according to written sources. it sure got around; especially for a gun that operationally looks like itll fall apart mechanically due to complexity of operation. oh and mae is also a great shot.

[@sirbetterman225]

Steven Homan they captured them from the Dutch in the Dutch East Indies as well as from China when they invaded Manchuria. There is photographs of a Chinese madsen captured by the Americans at Guadalcanal surprisingly.

[@KlipsenTube]

The reason Julius Rasmussen changed his last name to Bjarnov in the late 1880's is almost certainly that a namesake of his attempted to assassinate the Danish "Konseilspræsident" or prime minister in 1885.

[@Foche_T._Schitt]

The Madsen described in one word, Gangly.

[@Herintruththelies]

Longest Mae segment ever?

[@kitchenjail3546]

31:33 I guess you could say he was a "modern Major-General."

[@Lowlandlord]

It does kinda look like there is just a giant block of metal in the middle.

[@KPen3750]

Mae, I would love to hear your unprofessional puns!! I love terrible puns

[@andrewhetchler3670]

🤣the shoulder thing that goes up