Cane Trains Beyond Diesel

Growing, harvesting and transporting sugar consumes diesel in huge quantities, which raises the question; how will the sugar industry adapt in a world moving beyond fossil fuels?
Mackwell Locomotive Co. offers sugar mills the ZeroLoco, a resilient cane transport solution that adds value to the cane residues which power it.
Head to mackwelloco.com to learn more about the ZeroLoco, the zero-carbon advanced steam locomotive designed for an affordable, efficient and resilient future.

[@SteamMasterGaming]

I suggest you try to marketing this to US Sugar, they own a railroad in south Florida that farms sugar canes. They also own 2 steam locomotives, 1 in service, 1 bring restored to operation and they also got one stored.

[@kaipu3197]

I agree with you my fellow saddle tank.

[@SteamMasterGaming]

Also to note if they ever would be willing to convert one of their engines to this new boiler type, FEC 253 would be a good option for it. The previous owner did a majority of work on it, the boiler was one of the major things holding the project before he passed.

[@TRAINGUY-ey3hj]

@@SteamMasterGaming or how about just by the locomotive from mackwell

[@Arkay315]

so you designed a sugar cane locomotive? if I wasn't broke I'd invest in your company, because this is revolutionary my friend, bringing a 200 year old concept into the modern age and revamping it is just astonishing. keep up the good work.

[@boxcarthehusky420]

It's nice to see where the project is going, Porta would be proud.

[@stopwatchlisten9396]

I run a wood recycling company, your steam tractor interests us the most. Will there be an update video soon?

[@Mackwell-Co]

Yes you can expect an update in the near future. If you send us an email at [e-mail] we are happy to answer any questions.

[@stopwatchlisten9396]

@@Mackwell-Co Wonderful! Can’t wait to here more about this new age traction engine!

[@artismbyjoey779]

@@Mackwell-Co Imagine if Elon Musk created a Tesla Steam locomotive!

[@KarolOfGutovo]

​@@artismbyjoey779It would probably only take branded Tesla Fuel Cartridges, lasts 8 hours and costs only $10000! With electronic authentication hardware to ensure you don't clog up the firebox with subpar cheaper offbrand fuels.

[@nileadam7336]

What a futuristic steam locomotive to work on sugar cane railways!

[@ericlotze7724]

I don’t know what facility you could go to, but have you considered doing emissions tests similar to those for road vehicles, but with the Flue Gas exhaust of this? It would be interesting to get hard numbers on NOx etc under different fuels/conditions. Either way amazing project, and I’m glad to see it grow!

[@abrr2000]

The issue is, it's C02 emmission numbers would be quite bad. HOWEVER, it is net zero carbon, because the C02 it is emmitting is already in the system, captured out of the air less than a year ago, rather than deisil fuel, where the C02 was removed from the air several BILLION years ago.

[@sirbarongaming2138]

I hope that this is marketed in the US, it's my dream to operate steam locomotives in the modern era

[@mr.wheels6212]

Wow, we need this.

[@mewtwo8139]

One idea I’ve had for a while as a solution for how long it takes to build up steam is to include the capacity to charge it with steam like a fireless engine, which would happen as a final step in the initial steaming process, charging up after the water had been added and the fire was stable. By the time that you would start losing too much pressure, the water in the boiler would already be starting to convert into steam. In fact, a technique that was used to extend the amount of time a fireless engine could run before a recharge, they would partially fill it with water hot enough to turn to steam at atmospheric pressure, but the boiler pressure kept it in a liquid state, and the insulation minimized the loss of heat, ensuring that as the pressure dropped, the water would turn into steam, raising the pressure back up, greatly increasing the range of the engine. Just thought you might want to consider incorporating this concept into your design, since it could also allow them to be used as a fireless engine if the owner (most likely industrial, primarily power plants that operate on steam which could also be used to charge their engines, as opposed to buying additional fuel for their machines)

[@harrymu148]

random ass thought: if a fireless was coupled up to a loco of any kind, if you threw the fireless in reverse (assuming its a normal pressurized pneumatic fireless, not some fancy stuff like caustic soda or something like that) it can act like a regenerative brake. when starting a train from a dead stop, you can throw it in forward and add extra pulling power. and when going down hills, it'll save your brake pads too -- and if things really get out of hand, its just another set of brake pads as well.

[@stephensmith799]

Glad to see you are considering a Garratt.

[@SteamLance]

This is a brilliant idea, only thing I'd say though is make it an 0-6-0+0-6-0 for more adhesion

[@Lillstisse661]

I think the number one issue to solve with steam is how to make it easier to repair and maintain locomotives. If it would be easier to just swap parts like on a diesel locomotives I think they would be more attractive and competative. I've heard from a guy who has worked with both diesel and steam locomotives and he said that in a diesel workshop you swap parts, in a steam workshop you make parts.

[@retr0bits545]

I would love to see a consolidation or a mikado version for more power for US markets.

[@Reptilianmaster-1120]

The reborn of steam locomotive

[@jouebien]

and has all the issues garrets have where A) consuming fuels reduces the weight over the drivers B) you can't see shit around the boiler C) tractive effort/speed set by wheel/piston size D complex motion that got to be oiled and wheat's out faster than a traction motor. There's a reason every state threw out or sold off the garrets the first chance they got - none of them preformed well. Had the states not been forced into buying them they would have never bought them.

[@thomaspickles9058]

its great to see someone pushing steam technology forward, ive thought for a long time people who view it as a dead end are all wrong 😊I'd love to see this technology applied to an ALco D-1a 4-6-6T, I wonder if high pressure steam and compound steam engine ideas could be applied to this boiler design to get even more performance and efficiency out of the system 🤔

[@sakachaanel44]

In Indonesia, there are many sugar factories, and some of them still use sugar cane trains.

[@kaipu3197]

So does it have to be a garratt or can the wheel arrangement be changed also can you add a saddle tank to it.

[@CrisisOnACanoe]

I'd imagine it would be possible to make it function in any form, much like the flue tube boilers of old. It's just a case of getting the design right before retrofitting it to an older machine.

[@harrymu148]

this is pretty good for the us market imo

[@svenschlenkrich]

The idea is interesting, but as long as there is no prototype either of the AGloco nor the zeroloco it cannot prove the advert's promisses.

[@NickBurman]

Brilliant, but rather than an articulated (with the issue of keeping steam joints tight and avoiding heat losses and pressure drop) rod (with its four pulses per revolution) locomotive, what about a geared machine along the lines of a Sentinel? A high-pressure steam generator (rather than a boiler) feeding a 3- or 4-cylinder fully enclosed compound high speed engine driving bogies through cardan shafts would be more thermally efficient than an ordinary steam locomotive and have torque and power characteristics closer to the diesels they would be replacing.

[@wesbrackmanthercenthusiast4695]

Or a shay ,heisler,or climax style locomotive

[@Gearz-365]

Very impressive for a 200 year old invention seek a comeback in modern times. But I'm curious. I've seen this locomotive, as well as the videos on the new traction engine. Have you thought of also designing a mainline locomotive? One for express services :)

[@hamiltonsullivan6563]

Know this is cool, honestly I hope they save the small deisels as switchers than scrapping them and replace Mainline duty with this!

[@raymondleggs5508]

Environmentally friendly express

[@hamiltonsullivan6563]

Any update on this locomotive boys?

[@AndrewHager02]

If the price is right, would it be possible to convert and upgrade old steam locomotives into more advanced versions of their bases, or maybe build upgraded versions of ones that went extinct?

[@seeleymainline8293]

I am working on reopening a tourist railroad in Idaho USA and this loco could drastically increase our popularity and decrease our maintenance costs for a conventional steam locomotive as a result I am very interested in your design. I just am curious how long it will take for you guys to come to North America

[@Mackwell-Co]

Great to hear! We're currently working with a short line Railroad in North America to introduce our technology. Send us an email at [e-mail]

[@Marcy53Volkswagen]

i would like to have an idea of changing the wheel arrangement of the locomotive. since it will provide the power similar to a regular diesel locomotive with bogies of 4 wheels on each side. or a 0-8-0 i suggest using 10 wheels to increase torque

[@Frz45]

How are the projects going? Been quiet for a while.

[@kickinghorse2405]

Lad Where are you? (Edit: wishing you well and placing on the altar of the new day a whisper of health, grace and renewed hope. )

[@zachwojda9066]

I'm not sure if you're still working on your steam tractors. If you are I'd to get a hold of you I have a lot of ideas for the future of steam power. I'm currently trying to design and build a steam engine to run a power hammer.

[@ethanmyerrailroad1185]

2025 built steam engine cane garret

[@TrainsOhio]

Well done!

[@aldhikabl482]

so you basically re-introduce fireless locomotive?

[@bluefoxy6478]

Does this mean that the existing boiler is going to be used for a Garrett, and not a mogul now? Considering the boiler on the Garrett looks to be the same size as the existing boiler.

[@adamwachs6392]

I thought the boiler was also for a tractor 😂. To me this seams like and advert but has hasn’t finished building or testing any engine yet?

[@adamwachs6392]

Looking on the website I think he has swapped to this design over the mogul

[@bluefoxy6478]

Well the existing boiler wouldn't fit in the tractors he is planning to build, currently it's just a sort of test bed.

[@mischi9203]

sadly you tried to make the locomotive look modern, i personally would love to see some more classic designs

[@Lillstisse661]

Yeah, but the finished product can't be painted blue. I would imagine it would become black after a while do to sot and the 1000 degree flames within the boiler.

[@harrymu148]

@@Lillstisse661 boiler insulation means it won't cook paint and the soot should be wiped away with regular maintenance like with other traditional locomotives.

[@Lillstisse661]

@@harrymu148 true, although it would be smarter to paint them black as it doesn't show the dirt and grime as much.

[@LolLol-xy4rh]

I have one very big issue with this and that is the weight because a garret isn’t exactly light now is it so might I ask but how much does it weigh, because some sugar cane lines are just lightly layed rail and why upgrade the rail that’s still in a usable state?

[@bluefoxy6478]

Considering steam locos were being used on lightly laid rails before diesels replaced them, and the fact this boiler is lighter than the conventional firetube, existing lines most likely won't need to be upgraded, depending on locomotive size of course.

[@Lillstisse661]

@@bluefoxy6478 yeah, on 2 lines near me they actually had the problem of the existing diesels being too heavy when they started replacing the steamers. 9 years later they came up with what they called a "genius" solution, close both lines and tear up one.

[@ethanthornburg3586]

ill take revamped steam technology over battery and hydrogen powered locomotives any day

[@TheGWR0-4-0]

Finally, Steam > Diesel

[@artismbyjoey779]

I hope Lionel makes the Models of this locomotive.

[@AndrewHager02]

No Lionel for me, thanks (except my pocket watch), I prefer Bachmann and Hornby.

[@mwaheed5611]

So how does the boiler work compared to the old version shpwn

[@wesbrackmanthercenthusiast4695]

Just for s**** and giggles if I were to start a heritage railroad and crowd funded a 1800s era norfolk and southern 4-4-0 american type locomotive the ones used in portsmouth ohio using your locomotive works what would you ballpark the price for construction ? I've kinda been wanting to do this since I was eleven a few months over a decade now and might just do it after I get the antique horse equipment business established aka out of my basement

[@mattsmocs3281]

They are in New Zealand so shipping won’t be cheap

[@caledonianrailway1233]

What’s the moguls name?

[@waynefergusson9987]

Are steam turbines more efficient than pistons

[@harrymu148]

steam turbines are constant torque, which would be a misfit for a variable torque requirement of a train that starts and stops. Even if it was more efficient, it would require a very sophisticated transmission to be able to quickly convert the torque at a high resolution. in short whatever the steam turbine gets in efficiency would be eaten up by complexity and maintenance costs. By contrast most steam engines have benefitted from the high variability of torque that steam pistons output by just skipping the transmission entirely. as for your original question: No, actually. Theoretically perfect pistons would win out against perfect turbines but because turbines are lighter and smoother to operate in certain conditions, it has been favored (warships, power generation, etc) while other engine types (gas, electric, diesel) have won out versus steam for efficiency and power density. (at the cost of the environment and precious resources)

[@ajnadeau7378]

Are you still doing the Mogul? Or only the Garret style?

[@harrymu148]

in his previous videos, his mogul design came out of the belief that the mogul layout would be easier to pitch to farmers. His original plan was to create the garratt engine. He seems to be trying to pitch both now. Garratt for the transportation, Mogul for farming.

[@ajnadeau7378]

@@harrymu148 Ah, thank you!

[@antonisdouropoulos500]

I have an idea about a steam locomotive, that will not minimise co2, but it will reduce it to 0. It doesn't need to burn enithing, because it uses liquid nitrogen n2 and electricity. It is simular to a water locomotive. You have to use electricity to heat the n2, in order to create pressure and start the locomotive and when it reaches an exact speed you stop use electricity and leave the n2 absorb heat from the atmosphere and keep the pressure at one point, that is enough to run the engine. Now because it is not cost effective to throw into the atmosphere the n2 and refuel, you need to select the n2 afrer it is used and return it to the n2 container. For this job i propose the same way that in a regular steam train the hot gases heat the water, by tubes in the container but this time instead of heating thay will be cooling. Now after the cooling the gas will need to be pamped into the n2 container, by a pamp that takes energy from the wheels and after that the sickle continues. Also the n2 can be used for lubrication and for cooling the breaks. Also the batteries for the start heating and speeding, will be recharged from the movement of the locomotive or from windmills or from solar panels or all of them. I can't describe the exact form of the locomotive but i tried my best on this text. There is some things that i didn't mention, but there's always the comments to ask.

[@Lillstisse661]

So a fireless locomotive? Search it up, those already exist but with compressed air.

[@harrymu148]

releasing N2 back into the atmosphere isn't as bad as you think it is. but yes capturing the used n2 would be necessary to prevent the need for new infrastructure to refuel using LN2 (liquid N2). Recompressing N2 would be a challenge without an external power source: the most popular modern method is to use cryocooling which suck back an amazing amount of energy per liter of Liquid N2. I would say, having solar panels or another auxiliary power source would be necessary to run this train in a feasible manner, along with the need of a home refueling station. A locomotive would, in my opinion, do a combination of keeping and releasing n2 that has been used. This would take part in three steps. when liquid n2 changes to gaseous n2, work is done on a set of pistons like a normal steam engine. when compressed air expands, it takes heat with it -- from that thermal differential yet more work can be extracted via stirling cycle engines. Third, when the gaseous n2 is released into the air, it would be run through another set of steam pistons. when braking, the johnson bar can be thrown in reverse, compressing the captive gaseous n2 back into liquid n2 for further use. the heat caused by compression can then further be used by the same Stirling cycle engines but in reverse.

[@harrymu148]

@@Lillstisse661 yea basically a tiered fireless.

[@Detailedstream]

What kind soild biofuel?

[@Lillstisse661]

Wood, pellets, briquettes, charcoal or anything else that you can throw in there.

[@Detailedstream]

@@Lillstisse661 maybe biogas

[@Lillstisse661]

@@Detailedstream yeah, you can use anything that burns, but bio is best because the enviroment. But i guess you could use methane or other biogases.

[@boiibee2851]

Bagasse. It’s stated in the video. Bagasse is the fibrous material left over from sugar cane being milled, highly volatile.

[@Lillstisse661]

@@boiibee2851 but you can technically use anything.

[@ethanmyerrailroad1185]

That a boiler explosion dangerous

[@bluefoxy6478]

Ah but this boiler can't explode, too little pressurized steam in it to cause it to dramatically explode.

[@bluefoxy6478]

no, this boiler is of water tube type, too little pressurized steam at any time for their to be a boiler explosion. You are thinking of the conventional firetube type, which can go boom. This one physical can't explode.

[@ethanmyerrailroad1185]

@@bluefoxy6478 explosion oh no come on said Philip

[@Marcy53Volkswagen]

@@ethanmyerrailroad1185 this isnt roleplay

[@Familyrailroad5486]

@@Marcy53Volkswagen you are this is roleplay ❤😊

[@shaunjohnston4428]

“Reliable and easy to fix” never go hand in hand with steam engines that’s why we changed to diesel in the first place 😂😂 try owning one for a while

[@bluefoxy6478]

He volunteers at a heritage railway, I'm pretty sure he knows because he's got hands on experience maintaining such locos.

[@shaunjohnston4428]

@@bluefoxy6478 I am fortunate enough to own a steam locomotive and she has more moving parts than an 1830s timepiece 🤣

[@bluefoxy6478]

@@shaunjohnston4428 moving parts, but it's all external isn't it? Allows easier access to the oiling points, easier maintenance, and easier access to clean the motion to prevent coal dust from getting into the bearings. Your loco is probably pretty reliable as well, but you probably don't realize it, unless whatever regulatory body that regulates locomotives is telling you that it can't run it for a specific reason. Like the boiler not meeting safety requirements, firebox sheets are too thin, or if it's the FRA, having a copper boiler.

[@kylegleeson8638]

Been in the cane industry. This concept is a fever dream. Most crews won't even grease the 0-6-0s, that's eight greasing points, what makes you think they'd be keen to grease this thing. It is easier, comfortable, convenient to drive a diesel loco. I'd like to see this become a Remote Shunt Unit... A 40 tonne loco (the biggest) will go through 450 litres of diesel over the span of 24 hours hauling 1500 tonnes. An average 0-6-0 will have a 120 litre tank and uses 60 litres over an eight hour shift. Electrical generation and export for domestic use is the main use for bagasse, using far more efficient boilers.

[@WimsicleStranger]

This is just a bog standard steam engine, there is literally nothing new or innovative about this other than saying to use the at-hand byproduct materials on site for combustion and using green buzzwords lmao

[@bluefoxy6478]

Nothing new except the very boiler which powers the thing, which lights up faster and is lighter, and a new look at old technology. Just because it's old, doesn't mean it can't be used anymore. Plus as he said it's carbon neutral, only releasing carbon that was already trapped for years.

[@WimsicleStranger]

@@bluefoxy6478 Wow I guess literally every single coal power plant and steam engine invented have been carbon neutral too! It's a fact that diesel locomotives are tremendously more efficient than steam locos not only in fuel economy but also in pollution.

[@bluefoxy6478]

@@WimsicleStranger it literally burns solid biofuel, not coal, as in it does *not* release anymore pollution then what was trapped by trees, bushes, and grass. diesels release carbon, and can be and in some cases are considered to be more polluting then even gas powered vehicles, and steam can be more efficient then diesel, cheaper too, a lot of the maintenance came from burning coal, an example of this is when mackwell convinced the heritage railway museum he volunteered at to switch from firing the engines on coal to firing them on wood, maintenance costs decreased immensely, making the engines more economical to run cause wood can be gathered on site. Coal isn't carbon neutral, but neither is diesel, but burning solid bio-fuels like wood and brush is, and his boiler allows the fuel to be completely combusted, as in no heat is wasted before it's used so it's more thermally efficient. I would recommend you watch this channel's other videos as he goes into more detail about the boiler.

[@WimsicleStranger]

@@bluefoxy6478 You said yourself that the reason it is carbon neutral is because it releases carbon that has been trapped for years. What do you think coal is? You also cannot in good faith claim that the fuel is 'completely combusted' because the very diagram itself shows that it has waste in the case of ash, which it handwaves away as 'fertilizer'. Steam is also pathetically inefficient compared to diesel. Today's deisel trains can pull a ton of cargo an average of more than 480 miles on just a single gallon of fuel. Steam locos also have less tractive effort, less thermal efficiency (10-20% vs 45%), and substantially less operating costs due to less inspections and less stops from having to refill water. There's a reason why all major railroad companies switched to diesel.

[@bluefoxy6478]

@@WimsicleStranger it *is* completely combusted, no sparks and no smoke emissions, and ash is actually used as fertilizer, it provides nutrients to the soil so that plants can grow. Also coal is a fossil fuel, not a solid bio-fuel since coal is basically dead animals that have been underground for many years. It also seems that you believe that steam is outdated and has no future, but look at how power is generated in many power plants, nuclear plants generate steam to turn turbines. Also steam locos actually can and have generated more tractive effort than diesels let me tell you about 2 examples of this. In 1938 union Pacific was doing a tour promoting a film, for this special train, they had their latest in steam turbine locomotives (I know they're not Diesel but just go with it) with a few heavyweight coaches, and a small old 4-4-0 (that still has a wrought iron boiler) with some wooden body coaches, when the turbines worked (they were quite unreliable) they would drop the small loco off near a town and let the little 4-4-0 and it's rake of carriages go into town and do it's promotional thing. One day the 2 turbines broke down and thus, this small 4-4-0 brought into town 2 broken turbines, the heavyweight coaches, and its own vintage train. Another time was if I remember right this happened sometime in the 70's or 80's with UP 844 at this time I think it was still numbered 8444 because of a diesel having it's original number but let's just use 844 cause it's simpler, anyway a diesel locomotive was having problems on a heavy freight train and it broke down on a hill the functioning units dou to how multiple train control works couldn't really move anymore with the broken unit, meanwhile 844 was pulling an excursion train when it was told about the obstruction ahead of them, so 844 arrived at the stalled train, coupled up, and pushed the broken diesel, the freight train, and pulling it's own coaches up this hill. If I remember right 844 put the freight train on a side track to get around it. The point is that steam locos can easily match the strength of modern diesels, and speaking of thermal efficiency, if you went and watched the videos on this channel you would know that his boiler is *very* thermally efficient, and due to the fact that his boiler is not of the conventional firetube type, it wouldn't have many inspections if any at all. The risk that mackwells boiler presents to others is negligible. As he said *in the video here* that it's as safe as your fridge. As is said, go look at his other videos, you'd learn a lot.