Psychedelics? | Doug Wilson

[@nathan3942]

I used to take LSD in large quantities and I collect experiences of all kinds. Thank God I was freed from this practice, as it is a great attraction and distraction for those who want to prove something transcendental to reality, without any commitment involved. Follow the ways of God, for there is nothing more transcendental than that. From an ex-junkie, with love.

[@topdog5252]

There is great value to be found in these compounds

[@MrJeffreyDR]

⁠@@topdog5252if a person wants to open portals and make contracts with unclean spirits, that’s the only thing that happens. The astral plane is 100% hijacked. Please don’t make the same mistakes I made. I even traveled to South America a few times to deepen my “spiritual understanding” while marrying it with eastern philosophy, much to my regret. Follow Lord Jesus and experience the peace of God which surpasses all understanding. 🌸

[@prayingmantis2389]

I love how tuned in you are to what is happening in the world Pastor. And I agree, STOP is the right response to Christ-one’s involved in this and also REPENT

[@BDR222yodaphied]

To Universalize such Advice is UTTERLY UNFOUNDED, and such is UNCIRCUMVENTABLE GIVEN THE NATURE OF THE SUBJECT. Anyone who asserts otherwise is SPEAKING OUT OF TURN.

[@bloodbought251]

Doug is spot on. I fell under attack after a lil grass and was soon arguing with demons who were taunting me to do something I didn't want to do. Then one sat on my lap. I fell off of my chair and cried out for God and He showed up quite unfathomably. For a brief moment, I was shown the despair of hell (cannot be articulated) and after, while being told that I was cheating by getting high while reading the Bible, I was flooded by an indescribable (ecstatic) peace that brought me prostrate and lasted hours. I was told that there was nothing on earth that compares to what God has for you. I was shown something beyond human vocabulary and regenerated when I least deserved it. I can't stand how kind God is to such ungrateful creatures.

[@dakotastein9499]

he was spot on with most of it....until he started comparing jesus fasting in the desert..... jesus didint see a "vision" of satan tempting him as a result of the fast any more than he "envisioned" the angels that came to him after that fact. jesus saw satan becaus satan was actually there tempting him,the fast didint give him that awaking because it was made clear that jesus could see the spiritual anyway.

[@gabesmith9171]

Be sober minded and live for Christ👍

[@jacknelson4073]

Amen Gabe!

[@topdog5252]

There are far better drugs than alcohol. Coffee isn’t too bad. LSD and Ayahuasca can be utterly life changing. I trust science, and it’s interesting on this.

[@topdog5252]

@@cavedmanjim249 I agree. Not trusting authority and looking for bad science is a part of good science. Observing evidence in nature is the only true authority in science.

[@janderson117]

I will say, unashamedly, that I used to smoke pot a lot. I had quit when I got sober from alcohol. Recently I had a bad day, was feeling really down, and was invited to smoke again. I took one hit and about ten minutes later started having vivid hallucinations I cannot describe. They lasted for four hours. I felt disconnected from my mind. It was utterly terrifying, but I could feel the Holy Spirit reassuring me that it would be ok, and I was safe. I prayed the entire time to get me through it. I finally came down from the high and have vowed to never ever do it again. It felt like I was in a spiritual realm and I certainly did not want to be there. Why did I smoke pot? Because I'm a sinner and weak. Instead of turning to Christ to get me through my trial, I turned to the world. So I was disciplined, and you know what? It drew me that much closer to Jesus.

[@keithwilson6060]

Sounds like someone laced the pot you were offered with hallucinogens. I’ve heard that this is the new frontier in drug culture - the old vanilla high just doesn’t cut it anymore. Glad it shook you back to God’s purpose for His people.

[@janderson117]

@@keithwilson6060 no one else that was smoking it had hallucinations. I assumed it was a poor interaction with one of my anxiety meds. Either way, not gonna poke the sleeping bear. Scared the absolute 💩 out of me.

[@janderson117]

@Spencer Meyer seems pretty accurate. Like I said I can't explain what I saw exactly. They didn't look like sentient things or whatever, but they had eyes, and they felt hostile and scary. And the noise. It was like gravel being scraped and crushed directly in my ears, while electricity was trying to speak in coherent sentences. I know that makes zero sense, but it did when it was happening.

[@cosmictreason2242]

@Spencer Meyer makes perfect sense. Demons’ goal is to keep people from going to heaven. Unbelievers are given placebo religious experiences as a distraction. If you’re genuinely saved, they don’t want you to be able to persuade the unbelievers that Jesus is better so they would rather frighten you in an attempt to make you appear to them as a spoilsport

[@joeradler]

@@janderson117 what you're saying you saw has hints of the vision that Ezekiel saw in the valley of dry bones. Very interesting correlation if what Ezekiel went through was similar to a God-guided trip into the spirit world.

[@joshsimpson10]

The danger is grave and frankly for me I did have extreme personal growth through my experiences. I also experienced false grace which in large part was due to my lack of a Christian worldview at the time. The puzzle was incomplete I became abstinent afterwards and I can tell you it is far from lazy to go through a serious experience. I never went into psychedelics for the purpose of growing or being better or whatever. I had no idea. But the result FOR ME (big emphasis) was coming to Christ genuinely and wholly. That being said if God has his elect ordained before time (which I believe) then I was being protected while in the experiences.

[@canucktruckerbear]

Bless you brother

[@ladyhumblebee2784]

I agree and can relate. God bless you

[@joshsimpson10]

@Spencer Meyer I can attest to the fact that before I went through my experiences I was on a 1 way path to self destruction and despair. Praise God he would even consider such a putrid wretch such as myself, anytime I think of it, it moves me deeply.

[@nateauld]

I have the same story but unlike Spencer ^ I don't think psychedelics are necessarily folly. They may have a negative connotation and the ability to be foolishly abused and many possible negative outcomes but that is true of everything; all potencies have good, neutral, and bad methods and effects but since the Bible doesn't outright condemn it, we look to Christian culture and act as though our mores are God-given. I think the potency is so high with psychedelics that we must discuss and analyze them so cautiously that assuming they are folly is to assume a proper and safe distance but steadily and carefully bringing it into our understanding and methodology may prove fruitful. I certainly had no idea what they really were when I had my life changing experience and I don't recommend using them recreationally but to say there is nothing there worth exploring at all seems like the conservative folly in response to the liberal folly (temperamentally).

[@s.e.garcia3635]

@@nateauld the benefit being? The God glorifying aspect being?

[@cooljams_jams]

Take my money to put Doug in the same room as Joe Rogan for this.

[@c.chinaski3156]

I think Joe, whether he knows it or not, is afraid to have a Christian scholar of Doug's calibre on the podcast. He's had gurus, scientologists, Jews & all sorts of people on to talk about their faith or spirituality, but as much as I respect Joe for the conversations he has, he hates God & doesn't want to be convicted of his sin in a meaningful way, because he loves living in it. I agree though, whilst there are many Christian scholars & theologians that may be able to accurately lay the gospel out to Joe & answer his questions, Doug would be able to do so in an unparalleled way that I think could actually get through to him, & the conversation would be absolute gold, for Joe & maaannnyy people listening.

[@joetaylor1976]

@@c.chinaski3156 Doug believe the earth is 6000 years old. Bless his heart.

[@TheMcGloneCode]

I want to see a conversation between Doug Wilson and Paul Vanderklay!

[@mustangNJD]

Make this happen!

[@cosmictreason2242]

@@joetaylor1976 bless your heart, you think it’s not? Embarrassing

[@jerdazzo]

As someone who used to be deeply into psychedelics, I can tell you that you will never meet a person in that lifestyle who believes it's all in their head. Users of psychedelic drugs understand that they are touching a spiritual realm and coming back with spiritual insights.

[@WoodwrightMillworkLLC]

This guy has never done them.

[@The_Ladder_Perspective]

Ya it’s lame to hear Doug on this subject

[@cosmictreason2242]

Their insights aren’t true, though

[@weaponizedmemes3461]

I haven't. But I believe there is something to that. Graham Hancock's book on the subject Supernatural is good.

[@BiffScooterIII]

(Assuming you all believe that Scripture is the true Word of God and its teaching therein are divinely inspire...) Just be aware that demons are also spirits/spiritual, and lucifer is known as the light-bearer. Spiritual doesn't always = from God. Satanists have spiritual experiences too. I would say that psychedelics do help spirits touch you/touch the spiritual realm. But God only promises to come to us in His means of grace. Seeing that we are currently behind enemy lines, so to speak, you will be more likely to see "the enemy." Not to mention that Saint Paul and Peter exhort us to be sober-minded on more than one occasion. "Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour." 1 Peter 5:8 More Scripture off the top of my head: 1 Timothy 3:2 1 Timothy 3:11 Titus 1:8 Titus 2:2 Titus 2:6 1 Thessalonians 5:6 1 Corinthians 15:34 God also tells us to lean not on our own understanding ( Proverbs 3:5) - and one can extrapolate that this would also include experiences. So regardless of how surreal/spiritual/mind-altering, etc. the experience, it is ultimately a lie and a product of a mind inundated with chemicals and whatever spirit that seeks entrance into it and influence it. I was once into these kinds of things; I do not speak from complete ignorance on this matter.

[@SouthpawEhud]

I think this topic is not discussed enough. Not merely psychedelics but the reality of the spiritual realm. We render the word "drugs" to every substance but there is a reason the Indians called psychedelics the food of the gods.

[@nateauld]

Agreed, this topic is begging to be charted and like everything else, the culture will get there first before the Christians come in and have a real deep discussion about it. JP's discussions in the last year about them have been great esp. given that he has the humility to note that we have NO IDEA the depth of this means but we can somewhat measure the ends.

[@cosmictreason2242]

@@nateauld stop doing drugs and stop leading others astray by encouraging them to sin against conscience

[@nateauld]

@@cosmictreason2242 Stop presuming my motives and actions and stop doting on others assuming they can't parse information themselves.

[@michellestevens6872]

Micro dosing helps with depression and anxiety, and other mental health challenges without the dangerous side effects of psych meds. The purpose isn’t to get high or have a breakthrough, but use the gifts that were put here on earth for a medicinal purpose not escapism from reality. 🙂

[@mike-cc3dd]

Exactly. Quieting the mind. Focusing the mind. Etc. It's just like how people with ADD are more focused on caffeine and meth. Its weird how the brain works.

[@jeremyrothrock6163]

Jesus can and will heal any mental deficiencies. There is no need to seek something else.

[@nateauld]

@@jeremyrothrock6163 CAN yes but WILL, maybe not. Those who are sick need a physician and if the physician prescribes something, are we not to take the medicine because Jesus will heal? And if culture and doctors change their views on psychedelics and if our medical practices carefully introduce a meaningfully effective method of mental healing that God allows to come to fruition (through psychedelics), should we avoid it because it came from this plant that man condemned but God allowed? I don't think we should be cavalier about them but I think full dismissal may be equally foolish.

[@cosmictreason2242]

Why are you using your real face, girl? Speaking of anxiety. Have you never been attacked for your faith? Never heard of cancel culture? Never witnessed?

[@JadDragon]

@@jeremyrothrock6163 so never see a doctor?

[@evanharris672]

Watched Eve in Exile last night with mom. Wonderful. I really want to show everyone at my church. Canon+, may I use my account to play it at my church? Blessings for all the work.

[@itinerantpatriot1196]

As someone who dabbled in a lot of stuff when I was younger and lost good friends to the culture I can't warn people strongly enough to steer clear of all of it because you never know where that road will take you once you are on it. We all started out innocently enough as well. None of us said we wanted to be junkies when we grew up and none of us jumped in the deep end of the pool right off that bat. It doesn't work that way. Most of us smartened up but as I said, not all of us did and friends who should have lived productive lives paid dearly for swimming in the Devil's lake, a few unfortunately drowning in it. As for psychedelics, a friend of mine had a brother who was about 10 years older than us. He was drafted and did a tour in Nam but he was okay when he came back. He got married and was on track to live a productive, happy life. Then something happened, I don't know all the particulars, but the marriage fell apart and he took off for the west coast. He came back around the end of the 70s but he was completely transformed. I guess he got into psychedelics pretty heavy and his mind was shot. I remember driving to work at 7 AM and having to swerve around him as he sat naked in the middle of the road, sitting in the lotus position looking into the sky at who knows what. They finally had to institutionalize him when he tried to burn the house down to get rid of the spiders he said were out to kill him. He was a smart guy at the beginning of the decade, a talented musician who could have gone in a lot of different directions but he chose Satan's path to enlightenment and paid dearly for it. I moved on so I have no idea what happened to him in the end but if he was able to come back it was only through the Grace of God. I have been around enough addicts to know He is the only one strong enough to defeat the kind of demons most people with substance abuse issues confront. Because I have seen how it works I have a soft spot in my heart for people who struggle with addiction. As I said, no five year old says "I wanna be a junkie" when you ask them what they want to be when they grow up. Please keep that in mind the next time you see a homeless person passed out some place. I guarantee, it wasn't always that way for them and it certainly wasn't the life our Father intended for them. Offer a prayer instead of a judgement. And be warned, there by the Grace of God go I. But that's me.

[@colton7373]

I used to use psychedelics as a young teenager and they are one of the scariest class of chemicals I can think of just based on how much they can change your brain

[@midwestambience6066]

I think his pride in embodying the spiritual without drugs is what influences his opinion.

[@cosmictreason2242]

I think you’re rationalizing excuses not to listen so you can keep doing drugs

[@charliestubbs6151]

You’re both right. Religion arrives to us from mysticism and shamanism. Those who reach into the beyond and bring something back for the rest of us. Psychedelics are one of many ways people have accomplished that throughout history. Humanity has used psychedelics to map out the spiritual world and to view the inner workings of the world since the beginning. The Bible is not an exception. To praise the Bible, and to mock mysticism (altered states in general,) is to praise the apple and mock the orchard.

[@charliestubbs6151]

However it is a risky thing to tinker with and can open doors which the average person doesn’t know how to close

[@micahvanella2938]

I find this to be very simple question to answer but also highly subjective to the context. It can be looked at just like alcohol. Alcohol is frequently abused and frequently enjoyed responsibly and righteously. You can find plenty of teetotalers with anecdotal evidence that it is incredibly destructive. But that's just their personal experience with it. I think Doug's question of "What's the point?" in relation to microdosing is the right question to ask. But I think he might not be aware of the research and medical uses of various drugs, such as THC, CBD, psilocybin, amphetamines, cocaine, opium, etc. You can become a opium junkie and sin grievously or you can use it to numb the pain of your patient with a moral wound (morphine). You can become a meth addict and lose your teeth or you can use small amounts of it to help you focus your brain and be productive (ADHD medication). I think most everything has a righteous use. But each should be considered in context.

[@mustangNJD]

Exactly!

[@micahvanella2938]

​@Spencer Meyer Points taken. I should clarify, when I say the context matters, I'm talking about things like intent, amount used, frequency, etc. I'm not saying that all of these substances are always righteous in every context, merely that from what I can see and from what I know about them, there are legitimate and righteous uses for them, and we should consider everything in context. I do think your illustration comparing caffeine to cocaine is only mildly relevant given that they are both stimulants and used for energy, or rather the numbing of the fatigue receptors. I've never seen someone go on a coffee bender and destroy their family, quite true. But your argument seems to be that because some people abuse it and it causes destruction it should be avoided entirely by everyone in all cases. But you can use that exact same argument for alcohol. I have family members that are alcoholics and have ruined a number of lives. If you would condemn cocaine but not condemn alcohol even though they have similar possibilities for destruction you would be inconsistent. And yes psychedelics are used in many pagan religions and rituals, and by the statists (MK Ultra). But there's also promising research that shows that in the correct doses it can be used to treat dementia. I don't abstain from eating meat, just because most pagan religions used it in their sacrifice rituals at some point.

[@cosmictreason2242]

@Spencer Meyer are you the same person leaving the comments saying it’s only natural??? Confusing

[@cabbytabby]

I agree as long as you apply the same policy to alcohol, which is also a drug. A mind-altering addictive drug

[@AlienPsyTing1]

If you drink too much yes, if not no

[@cabbytabby]

@@AlienPsyTing1 then why not microdose other drugs? The exact same arguments against microdosing psychedelics can be applied to mild alcohol use.

[@AlienPsyTing1]

@@cabbytabby which ones were you thinking about

[@AlienPsyTing1]

@@cabbytabby that's quite an interesting question you pose I suppose the only way it might be possible to answer that question is if double blind trials are conducted

[@Hideinacave]

surely Christians should stay away from any drug that has the ability to intoxicate... including alcohol. I would think that Christian liberty is a liberty to freely worship God in Jesus Christ; not to partake of things that can lead to sin 🤷

[@feliciadogbe1313]

Entering into the spiritual world in an unlawful or lazy way. Interesting thoughts.

[@enigma4526]

Question about 'Eve in Exile' I really want to watch it but the canon press subscription isn't feasible for me. Is there a separate site (but linked to Canon press) where I could just buy the film?

[@aoie11]

You can just choose a monthly subscription ($7.99 I believe) and simply cancel after you watch the documentary. Plus you could watch whatever else you wanted on canon+ during the active subscription period.

[@gbear34]

I just watched a podcast of a Navy Seal who claims psychedelic treatment cured his PTSD, and I left that feeling kind of conflicted. However, I thought it through and decided that opening oneself up to demonic deception (we would never be able to tell the difference) through this medium isn't a good idea. I'm glad I found this video and thank you for the encouragement on the subject (one I think more people will have questions on in the future).

[@nateauld]

Being careful is good, dismissing outright is foolish (imo). There are a lot of stories and studies of late about people using psychedelics in conjunction with controlled therapeutic settings and coming out of the experience having conquered problems that ruin people's lives. It is certainly AT LEAST a topic worth discussing.

[@cosmictreason2242]

People are literally judging by their own emotions when they say that. It’s like kicking an overeating habit by taking up cigarettes. Yeah it accomplished the goal but only technically

[@mattgillies6924]

I can say for %100 that God made mushrooms and there was a reason for it. Many people are finding that a mushroom trip once, or perhaps very rarely completely cures depression. This is far preferable to most perscriptions imo

[@cosmictreason2242]

@@mattgillies6924 they should be researched and not peddled to people as panaceas

[@looneycrow7978]

Not all psychedelics are same... mushrooms i could see how it would make you go through your memories.

[@stankwilliamsjr.8949]

Whoa…trippy man…

[@conservativeriot5939]

No medicinal aspect?

[@juanfumero6951]

On march 2018 I smoked DMT after having done magic mushrooms and LSD a few times. But this was different as i works immediately and takes you out of your body. In this experience I saw many fallen angels which I didn’t know at the time were fallen angels because they took on the form of hindu Gods such as Shiva and Ganesha, the former which I began to worship time after the trip. During the trip I saw many things that I cannot explain but the most horrifying thing I experienced was literally hell. I was in a state of infinite confusion when any time I tried to grasp any meaning it fell apart. It was horrible. I was naked and everybody I had ever met was there watching me with so much shame and pity because I had lusted after women and their nakedness and it was like so much perfect divine justice because I had reduced women to their nakedness therefore I was reduced to my nakedness. I cannot explain the horror of hell. It was full of shame and guilt and there were fallen angels angry with me, mocking me and making fun of the fact that I had fell into their trap of looking at another human as just their flesh and not as being made in the image of God. After that trip, my whole reality was shattered. Everything I thought I knew slowly broke down. I started getting into hinduism and the worship of shiva with kundalini Yoga and I would feel as this being started entering my body at night when I chanted his name and when I smoked cannabis which is a huge doorway. After the trip I didn’t really remember being in hell because it is so horrifying that your natural mind cannot really comprehend it and it cannot make sense of it. I kept living my life, using mushrooms and smoking weed and LSD and lusting and drinking. On August 2018 I went to Miami with a group of friend and we were partying and drinking and one of those nights I got so drunk that I passed out and threw up. The next morning I woke up and felt horrible but not just hangover horrible because I had had hangovers before and they were never this bad. I felt spiritually horrible, and that feeling brought me back to the moment in hell. It felt as close to that ambience of hell as one could get in this world. Many negative thoughts ran through my head and I thought: “Is this all life is? Hanging out and drinking and wasting your time” We were in my friend’s grandmother’s house who was a catholic and had many crosses and figures in the house. Then, as I was lying in bed i saw one of the crosses and a feeling came over me that there was something about the cross that mattered. Like there was something about Jesus and the cross that had the answers, but I couldn’t put my finger on what it was. Then, a still small voice said in my ear:”Buy a bible”. When I got home I bought a bilingual english-spanish bible and started reading and praying which was new to me because I had not been raised in church. I prayed every day for about a month in a very raw way, just doing what i had read and saw on youtube but was still very weirded out because I thought I was talking to myself. In september 2018 about the time of my birthday, I had a very vivid vision and out of body experience. I began to float out of my body and was floating around my house but had no control of where I was going. I suddenly landed on a cross as if I was crucified. When I landed I saw the face of Jesus in front of me and an overwhelming feeling of love came from him and in his eyes and when i say overwhelming i mean it consumed me with so much peace and love that I had never felt. After this I started reading the bible and taking it way more seriously was born again some time after, and slowly began to reveal things to me such as the identity of the place I went, confirming it was hell and the beings I saw, confirming they were fallen angels. Jesus is really good. When I think about it now, it really blows my ming how I lived the first 20 years of my life without knowing that God exists and how horrible it was to not have him in my life, even though he was always there, even in hell. I love you Jesus.

[@RusticTrophies]

The outlook that dnt in medicinal purposes might cure PTSD might be worth investigating however.

[@RusticTrophies]

@Spencer Meyer Oh yes absolutely.

[@Speakingintothevoid700]

Why do acid when you can read James B. Jordan?

[@arminius504]

@Spencer Meyer love the guy and learned a lot from him and he has amazing insights but yeah sometimes he goes places where I can’t follow and I am just like “what is he smoking?” lol

[@AlienPsyTing1]

@@arminius504 is he the guy who wrote Through New Eyes

[@cnaorte]

I did a lot of psychedelics before being saved, and would definitely agree that they allow you to tap into a very real spiritual (and demonic) realm. But my question is: Why do you believe God made ways for us (such as psychedelic mushrooms) to do so?

[@Bane_questionmark]

I think the “God made it so it can’t be bad” argument (not saying you are completely saying that but many do) is way oversimplified. There are many plants and substances on Earth that are harmful to humans if consumed. I don’t think it’s a stretch to say that there are certain substances we can consume and survive but which we should not consume anyway because of psychological or spiritual harm they can cause. Another point is that the forms of these drugs the average person often takes is processed to some degree from its natural form. Various mushrooms are at least dried and many people process them further like dissolving in water, salvia DMT and I believe mescaline are normally taken as extracted chemicals, ayahuasca i.e DMT brew is a combination of multiple plants cooked with certain techniques, LSD and other psychedelics are entirely synthetic, the list goes on. So if the argument from nature is used, it would only even apply to consuming the substances as they occur in nature. Thirdly, divination and sorcery (Greek pharmakeia, using drugs/potions as part of magical practices such as divination) are explicitly sins. Taking psychedelics with the intent of having a visionary experience, encountering entities etc. is explicitly prohibited in Scripture. Recreational use I don’t believe falls in these categories, but taking them with the explicit aim of even “personal growth” is essentially aiming to have a visionary transformative experience, this is clearly sorcery/pharmakeia as best as I understand these practices as they’ve occurred in history. Theoretical arguments at the end of the day aren’t relevant for a Christian, Scripture Old and New are united in condemning these kinds of practices and warning us to not participate in them.

[@irrelevantideology9640]

FINALLY!!!!!

[@AlienPsyTing1]

Question ….why would God create mushroom, marijuana etc with psychedelic properties when injested

[@mayboy128]

Is this from a longer video?

[@AlexanderLayko]

6:20 Trust me bro no one would look at you and mistake you for someone who's "fasting".

[@James-vv5qe]

In regards to micro dosing, I think more thought is required than dismissing as “kidding yourself”. There are studies that have been performed to isolate placebo effects. I don’t know the answer, but was hoping more wisdom could be shed on this use of psychedelics in particular. Especially since marketed as medicinal

[@Thrash230723]

I worked along side a psych doctor who was performing electroshock therapy, which is one of last stages of treatment, for those severely mentally sick. He said “ unless electroshock therapy or medication has followed up with talk therapy, it’s all for nothing.” I still believe the disciplines found in scripture are the steadiest form of mental health a person needs.

[@fndrr42]

I think that there is more to micro dosing than you are picking up on. I think it still has a pretty substantial effect on alot of different psychological problems without crossing the blood/brain barrier. Don’t really think it’s “naughty adjacent” not like people are taking it because it “almost” made them trip. If that were the case then I would agree with the sentiment.

[@nateauld]

Agreed, while I appreciate that they scratched the surface at all and admitted there seems to be a direct spiritual contact property potentially going on, I think the microdosing dismissal was incorrect outright. Everything has different effects at different dosages; too much water will kill you and not enough will kill you but the right amount is absolutely necessary.

[@cosmictreason2242]

@@nateauld you do not need any amount of psilocybin in your blood

[@AlienPsyTing1]

They have to cross the blood brain barrier to work

[@fndrr42]

@@AlienPsyTing1 - not at all an expert on this stuff but from what I have heard; it that’s the reason micro dosing is so intriguing - no trip at all but does a lot of what SSRIs are supposed to do without any of the serious side effects.

[@PurePuritan]

Microdosing is a meme

[@jmorra]

If someone says, " if you can have two glasses of wine, or a scotch, then why can't I spark up a big one?" My answer: because alcohol, as deadly as it can be for some, is not psychoactive. Have you ever heard anyone say, " Last night I drank a whole bottle of vodka, and at last...I finally understood the unity of all things, and saw myself as not separate, but one." No, you don't hear such stoner talk from drinkers. And this is why hallucinogens, including today's fearsomely powerful pot, are off limits for Christians. And for good reasons, as Doug said.

[@mattgillies6924]

That is certainly a perspective. I think a much bigger reason that drugs are taboo for Christians is social conditioning. Alcohol is an incredibly harmful drug for many but we accept it because of tradition

[@Charlie5225]

@@mattgillies6924 - No. drugs are wrong because pharmakeia is strictly forbidden in the Bible. Hallucinogenic drug use is literally witchcraft. The fact that the Greek word for witchcraft is pharmakeia shows the close connection between witches and drugs. The witch doctors use “potions” (I.e. drugs) to get into contact with the spiritual world. Witchcraft doesn’t become ok now that you’re a Christian and have the Holy Spirit. What business does Christ have with Ba’al? Why do you think it’s ok to mix darkness and light? If you even remotely think it’s ok to claim Christ and unrepentantly practice witchcraft, you are in danger of shipwrecking your faith.

[@mattgillies6924]

@@Charlie5225 this is by far the most convincing argument presented to me so good job. It is entirely possible that God has deemed any and all psychoactive chemicals taboo, but I don't believe that myself. He has definitely condemned pharmakeia, but that could also extend to taking asprin as well could it not. If you have ever used any drug for any purpose does that mean your faith is in jeopardy? Certainly not! I know where my walk is at and even if I am incorrect on this issue I am in a good place. However, looking at the church, It is obvious that much of our leadership have denied the power and authority of Christ and submitted to the world at the expense of their congregation. Now that we are a couple of years into this "pandemic" we can observe the fruit. Is the church bursting with life and vitality? Or is it ruled by fear? The will soon be a reckoning

[@Charlie5225]

@@mattgillies6924 Asprin doesn't alter your mind. The hallucinogenic drug experience is very real. It's not simply altering your mind. It's legitimately a spiritual experience. However, just because it's real doesn't mean it's biblical. There is no such thing as christian witchcraft. If you are taking trips to the spirit world through the use of potions, you need to examine yourself to see if you're in the faith. Just because you can get high off of marijuana doesn't mean that's it's intended use. It has many other uses, like rope and paper. I'd argue that getting high is a misuse of God's creation. Heck, people in prison can get high off of fermenting fruit and feces. Does that means God intended us to use the two in this manner? Of course not. I don't know how familiar you are with the book of enoch or second temple thought on the watchers. But, jewish tradition and the book of enoch teach that it was the Angels who rebelled in the days of Noah who taught men how to cut and mix roots for hallucinogenic experiences. Just because certain mushrooms can get you high doesn't mean that's their reason for existing. Seriously my friend. I see that you claim Christ. That is great. But I'm warning you: Revelation 21:8 says that the "pharmakois" will experience the second death in the lake of fire. If you're truly a christian drug use is something to repent of, not embrace.

[@mattgillies6924]

@@Charlie5225 again you have some really strong arguments and I agree with most of what you say. But I do not see a hallucination or a psychotropic experience to be witchcraft. Its just a function of our body that God gave us. How we access this is important and I understand skepticism of wether or not inducing this state via the use of psychedelics is honoring to God. As of now I am still convinced that in the proper context this is not sinful. Perhaps a more apt comparison would be psychedelics to sex. Both are spiritual and have a physiological effect. Outside of the context of a Godly marriage, sex leads to harm on a number of levels. But sex that honors God produces life. This is a matter of conviction. It is your conviction that it is sin and so you should absolutely stay away lest you violate your conscience. I choose to tackle this with the understanding that a tool is simply that. How we use a tool determines the morality.

[@chiefofsinners5272]

Results from Micro dosing might be like those claiming to hear sonic improvements from a pair of $15,000 meter long esoteric speaker cables.

[@cosmictreason2242]

All self reported and unverifiable

[@AlienPsyTing1]

Lolz

[@Zanroff]

What he said about fasting is interesting... That does seem to be the "method" the Bible prescribes. I've never really fasted more than a day... I'm curious 🧐. I wish Doug would get on Timcast IRL one of these days... Talk to Ian Crossland about this stuff. He needs guidance and Doug might be able to reach him. Just a thought I've been having lately.

[@SirRatiocination]

I fasted for 5 days one time, but it wasn't for spiritual reasons. I heard of some of the health benefits related to certain hormonal changes that occur after two days of fasting. The first two days were the worst, as that's when the hunger pangs are the most acute. After that, it gets easier. I was able the do my job perfectly fine. One of my biggest concerns beforehand was how it might negatively affect my work performance, but it didn't. I was actually able to focus quite well halfway through the third day. One thing you should keep in mind though is that there are certain minerals without which your body starts to suffer badly. I drank water mixed with sodium and magnesium, which mitigated headaches and other problems that might have cropped up. I wouldn't say I followed the biblical model for fasting, which would be where you replace time spent cooking and eating with more prayer or spiritual attentiveness. Some of the benefits I personally noticed: increased attention span, better ability to focus, stabilized mood, good sleep, nearly complete lack of sexual desire, extra time, and, of course, a cheaper food bill for the week. I ended my fast with a normal-sized meal; I didn't have any stomach problems afterward. One more thing I should note that may have eased my body into a complete fast is the fact that I have naturally done intermittent fasting basically my whole adult life. I eat only 1-2 meals a day and usually within a limited time widow of the day.

[@Zanroff]

@@SirRatiocination That's interesting. I can go a day without eating pretty easily already. Being hungry is my usual state. Even after I eat, I can eat more. I think it's due to a high metabolism or something. I haven't tried doing more than a day. Maybe I'll try this weekend. I'll keep in mind the magnesium and sodium tip.

[@cosmictreason2242]

@@Zanroff haven’t gone longer than 5 days but as someone with more than 8% body fat, I haven’t felt any different on day 2 versus day 5.

[@mike-cc3dd]

Microdosing isnt used for immediate breakthroughs but for a change in outlook, emotional stability, anxiety, etc.

[@springflowerblosomnorris9721]

When you can have real power to walk, who needs crutches?

[@mattgillies6924]

If there is a need to use substance to access the spiritual that is a problem nd a sure sign that you are communing with demons

[@springflowerblosomnorris9721]

@@mattgillies6924 If you have Lord God himself with you than what need can possibly arise that Lord God can't deal with it?

[@mattgillies6924]

@@springflowerblosomnorris9721 there is no need to use something like that or else it would be a problem. But I can attest to a noticeable benefit and time of intense communion and revelation. Incredibly humbling

[@springflowerblosomnorris9721]

@@mattgillies6924 I can attest to revelations so powerful even have witnesses to it, all this without any chemicals.

[@Louipyaps]

Elderly people will not change.

[@PurePuritan]

I used to trip constantly until I was radically born again during an experience I should have died in. Now I cannot trip at all without having terrible feelings and thoughts because God doesn't like this cheater pagan way. Stay away from drugs, go the long route it's so much more scenic and meaningful... God saved me in spite of my rebellion, He may not be so gracious to you

[@camdencalvin1673]

I don’t necessarily disagree with what Doug says, but he deals only with the spiritual dimension. If you study what receptors psilocybin works on, it makes sense that they can provide benefits for depression, anxiety, and anhedonia. These problems can have a physiological cause as well as a spiritual or social or psychological cause. Therefore I think it truncates the conversation to only talk about the spiritual aspect of it.

[@albertfralinger2711]

psilocybin is powerful compound found in mushrooms and at the correct dosing can be extremely beneficial to people suffering from mental conditions

[@tucktucktucker]

Listen to God's Word over any man, drug, or experience. The same people who would never do psychedelics also identify themselves with a zodiac sign instead of Jesus. If Jesus is the cornerstone of your life, then have faith.

[@tucktucktucker]

@Spencer Meyer I'm saying one doesn't have anymore weight than the other. One is just done more in secret than public knowledge. Was just trying to get ahead of the holier than thou point of view so people who have done them don't feel demonic because astrology is demonic and a social norm.

[@brandonDuh47]

I would love to do the DMT again or rather Magic Mushrooms, just don't know where to get them. I only did DMT once, I was in a geometrical universe...it’s very hard to explain but I was laying down and all of a sudden my body was zoomed into another world, So many colors, machine elves. Would love to experience that again

[@trevornelson61]

once I took shrooms on accident they were in a chocolate bar and my fat a** thought it was regular choclate😂😂😂

[@userconspiracynut]

[hilary_chase1] ships Psychedelics

[@ugmiles.]

@@userconspiracynut is he on IG or what?

[@lopeztwinjason]

when i tried shrooms i ate way more than i should of because i thought they wouldn’t work and then my face got numb and i threw up shrooms and my friend was laughing but trying to comfort me and the bathroom lights were flickering cuz they were old and i had to go home

[@userconspiracynut]

@@ugmiles. yeah, He has variety of stuffs like mushrooms, lsd, DMT even the chocolate bars

[@mattgillies6924]

As someone with extensive experience in this area (before Christ I was a MDMA trafficker) I want to applaud your understanding. Psychedelics are incredibly spiritual and are not something to be taken lightly. I believe that one could take a moderate dose of magic mushrooms (with psychedelic effects) in the proper context: prayerfully, not to the point of being inebriated, in fellowship, and focused on God in worship; and have a powerful encounter with the living God. This is obviously a grey area for people so I am trying to encourage dialogue, not encouraging people into something that could be wrong for them. Any comments?

[@gainstthegrain]

I see it under the “don’t make provision for the flesh” idea found in scripture. Used to do a fair bit of LSD, shrooms and MDMA. Had some great experiences, especially with MDMA as I’ve struggled with anxiety, but realized it was ultimately playing around in a realm we’re not meant to go in. I still wrestle with it as far as if MDMA were ever therapeutically approved would i consider it, but I’ve got to trust that God’s sovereign over all of that. It’s the entering by jumping over the fence described in Pilgrim’s progress and I’d rather go the right way. Fasting can be pretty powerful if you’ve ever investigated that

[@mattgillies6924]

@@gainstthegrain good perspective man. If consuming any amount of a substance leads you towards sin than it is better to avoid it entirely. As Doug said, fasting is a way to deny the flesh and pursue God that is well defined in scripture and I do fast regularly. I just don't think that we can apply a blanket statement across all substances declaring them evil for one reason or another as much of the church does.

[@gainstthegrain]

@@mattgillies6924 for sure! Makes me think about where scripture says nothing outside the body can defile you, it’s what comes from inside us… we’d have to dig into why someone is using a psychedelic and if you dig down deep there aren’t gonna be many answers that check out IMO. Like I’ve seen how shrooms can be used to combat powerful migraines but anytime it’s like trying to gain an insight I think it’s coming from the wrong place. Not that God’s not bigger than that, but definitely playing with fire. Cool that you fast a lot.. I feel like in a lot of Christian circles it’s neglected. Trying to do it more myself

[@mattgillies6924]

@@gainstthegrain yeah man this is definitely something that I have insight into but am seeking understanding. Your %100 right that it is shortcut to the spiritual realm and there is merit in doing things he hard way. The question is whether or not taking a shortcut is wrong or smart? Obviously context is everything

[@TempleoftheSon]

So, psychedelics aren't the way to go, but how do you feel about sensory deprivation?

[@asg32000]

Doug, you are much wiser and more experienced than I am, but I don't think you understand micro-dosing. The whole point of micro-dosing is that there IS an appreciable/real affect in the brain physiologically/neurologically. The idea is that you can take a dose that is small enough to not induce hallucinations but large enough to affect mood/thought. By the way, I am not an advocate for psychedelics. I just want you to know that you're going to turn a lot of people off right away because you apparently don't understand micro-dosing and you dismiss it

[@Rvillaluz123]

This discussion reminds me of a verse in the book of Revelation; sorceries, which in Greek means hallucinogenic inducing substances. Revelation 9:21 KJV - Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts. This practice is not found in scripture; what we do find is fasting and a supernatural guided encounter. We need to be Bereans and check everything out with Scripture. If a person can be deceived by another person, how much more by an entity residing in the unseen realm.

[@sitka49]

I listen to interesting podcast - On Stuff they don't want you to know - on how Hallucinogenics and Psychedelics formed and influenced Religion. there are written accounts of it - liking to Paul on the road to Damascus and Jesus appearing to him and speaking . Mushrooms?

[@MikeZippyVee]

Anyone else hear the demonic laughter at 4:22 to 4:24 ? It's pretty much right after 4:23. Super low and deep. The heck?!?!

[@MikeZippyVee]

@@lapboard340 yeah! Probably! Haha!

[@JamesBoer]

Not enough nuance. Substances like psilocybin, ketamine, and MDMA are all useful for treating depression and PTSD in clinical settings and will soon be approved for mass use. They are tools, there are good and bad uses.

[@chaseflynn6956]

I'd very interested to hear Doug Wilson's thoughts on the mysteries of illysus and dionysus. And no, I didn't check to see if either of those words were spelled correctly. Sue me.

[@yep33whalesbebig60]

I lived in that realm for a few years no psychedelics needed

[@linkdude64]

No one is a prophet in their own land. The divine and sacred is in fact present in the finite and all around us, which the psychedelics seem to reveal, however when tempted to use them for the first time, God spoke to me through the wind, the trees, and a lovely squirrel digging for a nut. His divine message was that we are given today what is needed, and more is simply wanting. The Lord is my Shephard. Wanting for more insight which God has not prepared for us to understand is thinking we can read the last page of a novel and have had the experience and development of character the same as one who read the book carefully and with empathy for the characters. If it is meant for me understand the secrets of the universe, God will make it happen. For now, I can work on forgiving my annoying bosses, loving my bickering family, cleaning my room, and not lying. If I want the truth that badly, I should be willing to work for it.

[@Meta_Myself]

Psychedelics are not inherently sinful. Look up the Good Friday experiment.

[@timmywright7099]

how about natural growing magic mushrooms as a dietary supplement? 2 or 3 a day? anything can be abused with excess.

[@cosmictreason2242]

They are not necessary for anything

[@kvelez]

2:00 Interesting. 2:44 Good point. 4:01 I see. 4:47 Amen.

[@francis5425]

Plant medicine is the opposite of being lazy it is in fact very hard work

[@Sheraleeable]

God said this👇 “The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity, and debauchery; idolatry and “sorcery”; hatred, discord, jealousy, and rage; rivalries, divisions, factions, and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.” Galations 5:19-21 SORCERY defined in the original Greek=5331. pharmakeia ► Strong's Concordance pharmakeia: the use of medicine, drugs or spells Original Word: φαρμακεία, ας, ἡ Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine Transliteration: pharmakeia Phonetic Spelling: (far-mak-i'-ah) Definition: the use of medicine, drugs or spells “Usage”: magic, sorcery, enchantment. This “usage” makes it clear that using any substance for the express purpose of trying to break into an altered state of mind is tantamount to calling God a liar and trying to force oneself into the spiritual realm He has not granted. We are to deal with life on His terms, trust and obey.

[@johnwurfel2862]

You nailed it. Revelation 21 also condemns pharmakeia users to destruction.

[@dakotastein9499]

what makes phychodelics an issue when it comes to personal growth is any insight or revelation that it happens to snap someone into is its a philosophical shortcut the difference btween knowledge and wisdom is wisdom is gain through trial and experiance where knowledge is simply awareness without fully understanding....this of course isnt a bad thing but the more somone reliese on synethetic feelings and trips to feel these things,the more they are going to NEED it. sure these drugs may not be CLINICALLY addictive....but that just means that there isnt a chemical or biological dependancy on getting more...(unlike things like crack, cigarettes or meth which are physically addictive) ....but theres the other kind of addiction that relies on emotional dependancy...drinking is a good example of this,as can weed and mainy perscriptions..this includes hallucinogenic and psychedelics.

[@zapazap]

I was bracing myself for Doug to proof text that it was sinful. I was glad to see him not do that.

[@Bane_questionmark]

Not disagreeing with what is said here. But I think more work needs to be done by Christians to address psychedelics and the culture around them. Warnings are all well and good, but we must be able to address people who still champion the use of these drugs. How should we respond to someone who feels they had a positive life-changing psychedelic experience (perhaps including an encounter with some kind of entity or spirit, regardless of if the person believes the entity is “real” or what they believe it was) and is using this experience to justify opposition to the Gospel message? Of course God saves His elect, I have faith that any such people who are elect shall follow God’s call and repent. But that has never meant that we should not put thought into evangelism/apologetics or responding to other faiths and worldviews from a biblical, Christian worldview. In many ways psychedelic culture is a religious movement (linked heavily to new age and the occult), and it seems clear to anyone paying attention that Christians in America at least have made a grave mistake of being blind to the wide array of new religious movements that have been growing in this country since the 1960’s. We need to be able to respond specifically to Wiccans and Terrence McKenna disciples etc. just like we respond specifically to Jews, Muslims, and atheists.

[@chaseflynn6956]

People microdose for health benefits not any sort of experience, in fact the experience is the one thing you are trying to avoid. Supposedly a micro dose of lsd can improve things such as cognition, memory retention, oxidation, mood volatility etc. Obviously a very new and sparsely researched subject but potential does exist. There is particularly promising literature to support psychedelic treatments for addicts, alcoholics in particular. Now when it comes to the full boar diseases, I really do think the substances integrate the spiritual in a way we don't normally. The studies done at John's Hopkins on psilocybin were very interesting. In the end I almost feel as if they are forbidden fruit, they give us spiritual insight but perhaps we aren't meant to. Or perhaps God frowns on those who use these substances as a quick and dirty gateway to these insights, rather than relying on his word and worship and prayer towards him to get there. In the end God only knows, I for one am wary of these substances outside of a clinical setting.

[@mike-cc3dd]

Yes. Exactly. When drugs cause you to sin, by removing your prudence or temperance. Thats when its bad. But when drugs quiet the mind. That's when it can be great

[@andrewvillars6614]

why would God be upset at all if someone reached these conclusions using a substance that he himself put on the earth? if the goal is deeper connection with him and psilocybin can help, would he not rejoice?

[@mattgillies6924]

Definitely good to approach with caution. It is far better than to be wary than to rush into something that could violate your concience

[@chaseflynn6956]

@@andrewvillars6614 God also put the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the garden. Ultimately though I see your point on the subject. We really don't know much about these drugs at all. I just like to side with caution.

[@theauthor8901]

Taking carnal shortcuts in the hopes of obtaining spiritual gains is nothing less than a doctrine of demons.

[@abrahamkobke1986]

Sorcery. You've just described a form of it.

[@kirksaintpatrick3921]

There can't be THAT many spiritual break throughs occurring at Walgreens, afterall.... right?

[@eliasvargas4978]

No justifying psychedelics as a Follower of Christ, I will say that my Psychadelic experiences in the past have definitely had a role in making me tune into what’s really meaningful in life. Realizing the distractions of life, realizing that I’m going to die. And now as a believer formerly a atheists i reminisce on what I’ve learned from psychedelics and it motivates me to not setup my treasure on this world and live wholly for Christ alone.

[@andrewvillars6614]

you say no justifying as a believer then listed out multiple great valid reasons that justify using them. i don’t understand how using a natural substance that grows from the ground or is even produced in our own pineal gland could be wrong.

[@cosmictreason2242]

No, it has produced a feeling in your head, but given you nothing.

[@eliasvargas4978]

@@cosmictreason2242 our perceptions & value systems are not feelings. What we deem as valuable is where our actions point us. Recognizing a distorted value system isn’t a feeling, it’s a psychological change.

[@eliasvargas4978]

@@andrewvillars6614 we have to be sober bro, their are many issues with psychedelic usage but one is the fact that it strong distorts perception. We gotta to be clear headed and reflecting Christ, on a mission ready for action.

[@cosmictreason2242]

@@eliasvargas4978 I’m saying drug users feel that they have had such a change when they have not

[@Brymoe]

Like bro like what if we're not even really here bro🤔

[@canucktruckerbear]

As a Christian who used to take psychedelics before becoming a Christian, here is the easy Awnser,,,, Dont

[@michaelking1091]

Yeah man I used to try and combine psychedelics with the Bible for spirituality and I’m not a full blown schizo but I did develop schizophrenic tendencies that I didn’t have before. It’s controllable without anti psychotics but if im not praying like I should, I can seem very off putting to people.

[@canucktruckerbear]

@@michaelking1091 wow By the grace of God I got out of alcohol, psychedelics and hard drugs relatively unscathed, But there will always be haunting reminders of that life... I Thank God, that when those reminders come, I'm blessed with such disgust that I can't even stand the thought of going back for more than an instant.. I'll be praying for you

[@georgelutes1230]

Very good work though I would advise to go further. In that someone experimenting with psychedelics has no knowledge of what they don't know. There are dark things and places of which we have no knowledge and are explicitly commanded not go. Think of the Levitical warnings about necromancy, soothsaying and spiritism. We simply to not go there. Additionally Deut 29:29 states that there is knowledge that is closed to us and reserved for God alone, it is not for us to know.

[@BlondeBeard18]

See also lucid dreaming, and the often accompanying sleep paralysis.

[@gaspingfortruth]

Psychedelics are traditionally accompanied with fasting. There is an enormous tradition being overlooked for the sake of attacking a straw man. Why not address the real findings by Johns Hopkins.

[@beppiek]

Doug your thoughts on alcohol and cigars We are His temple We have a pandemic where alcohol has caused so much damage … killed cultures it actually got JohnBs head on a platter … the portal that that opens doors to heavier stuff … it is the gateway Paul said I won’t eat this or do that as to not cause my brother or heaven forbid cause children to stumble or be offended … alcoholism has polluted bloodlines and has opened the door to other “highs” I watched you do both on a few videos and I’m wondering if the Spirit has given the “body” a thumbs up on whisky (hard drink) and cigars cuz I’ll taut that … as no you don’t have to give up these things Jesus is okay with it along with marijuana which I see work for anxiety very well … If “allowed” suggest it for sleep issues anxiety stress and the withdrawal time is short and easier then pharma … there is no hallucinating on pot Anyway … like to hear your take ancc so if you’ve been given the Ok then please share that too A blood bought daughter from Saskatchewan Canada 🇨🇦

[@B33nj4m1n]

Since Doug hasn't responded, here's my (current) stance on alcohol, cigars, and drugs(whether natural or pharmaceutical, and not including hard core drugs like meth, crack, etc): Alcohol, and drugs in general are tools that can be used for good or bad. It's how you treat the tool that would make it more dangerous I think cigars do more harm than good, so I don't think the use of those would be advisable. If someone needs to be on some kind of drug(assuming the issue isn't due to a lifestyle issue like watching TikTok videos, gaming, diet, etc), it seems to me that something like marijuana would be a lot better than a pharmaceutical drugs, though drugs of any sort should be used only if absolutely necessary.

[@cosmictreason2242]

Ooh, another Joe Rogan reaction video!

[@seanschram4952]

Microdosing killed my ego and gives wisdom this is not all just an imperical biological world. The problem is when that conclusion doesnt lead to Jesus Christ

[@joshhoodrat451]

Drug IS the lazy man’s way in . So true !! Anything worth having is worth suffering for ! If you want a real experience go without eating for 30 days

[@galacticcandycrumbs3245]

I wonder if the tree of knowledge of good had psychotropic qualities.

[@andrewvillars6614]

papers coming from universities in jerusalem found that the burning bush was likely a burning acacia bush which is very rich in DMT, which would explain how one approaching such a bush would meet God.

[@cosmictreason2242]

@@andrewvillars6614 you have just denied the divine inspiration of scripture by speculating that it has an explanation as a drug induced trip instead of what the text plainly says. The bush was Not Consumed. It wasn’t releasing anything into the air. Your desire to justify drug use is leading you away from faith

[@AlienPsyTing1]

@@andrewvillars6614 have you a reference

[@TheSwordofEngland]

"Naughty adjacent" great description of a true phenomena. What deception has latched itself unto us and is polluting our desires if we want to see how close we can get to the fire without being burned?

[@travelmusic1113]

Great discussion. Very mature, for being Christian. Still I find the description of what a “psychedelic experience” is to be a little simplistic. Shamanic practices with psychoactive plants and fungi is older than organised religion, and there are extremely sophisticated frameworks out there, in all corners of the world. It’s much more than a lazy road to enlightenment and it is much more than a “street drug”. But I agree that many people are harmed by abusing these substances.

[@LauPineda]

“You are guilty of kidding yourself” hmmmm nicely put

[@joelrichardson6052]

I would recommend anyone struggling with this topic to look up Paul Risse and his new book The Psychedelic Christian. He is someone who has had a lot of experience with psychedelics and the new age lifestyle. He has a few podcasts out that go over his testimony (The Deep Talks Podcast). I have personal experience with psychedelics and his work has been really helpful for me. Don’t judge his book by the name of it.

[@cosmictreason2242]

How bout no

[@tristanmaxwell8403]

@@cosmictreason2242 how bout yes

[@micahwatz1148]

Eating magic mushrooms brought me closer to God. But i dont feel like i need to do them anymore lol. Same thing with smoking pot. Ive had enough. I get it. Learning about God is more interesting now.

[@coreycefail6704]

Dude …. Psychedelics have helped me so much …… I don’t don’t do them all that often but I wouldn’t give up that option ….. because they have genuinely helped my horrible life …. And I’m sorry but I do believe religious beliefs came from experiences like that …. The only issue with it is people get too comfortable with it or in life and stop Critically thinking …….

[@mcgheebentle1958]

Have you seen the before and after pictures of brains that have taken only ONE dose? It’s pretty scary… it pretty much obliterates all serotonin receptors (serotonin is the classic “happiness” neurochemical). Those receptors, by the way, do not grow back. Even doing it once is enough to chemically alter the way a person experiences happiness for the rest of their lives. True religion is simple and is able to transform a person’s life by its power alone.

[@irrelevantideology9640]

I think pastor Doug needs to do some more research on DMT and psilocybin. From this excerpt, I get the feeling that he is ignorant to most of it. On DMT you actually come in contact with beings that communicate with you. I'd love to hear his take on that. What those are. There's a whole bunch of iceberg under the tip of which he touches on here.

[@Zanroff]

He said those experiences are real in this video.

[@littlecrow6484]

I question the motive. And I'll say , at that moment you're taking drugs , you Don't want Christ as LORD of everything. " You're as close to Jesus as you want to be . " Chemical religion , instead of the Real thing.

[@looneycrow7978]

You don't need it. And if you get the message hang up the phone. Not all psychedelics are same. Jus sayin.

[@BonzoKilbourn]

Somebody tell Joe Rogan to get this guy on.

[@denniswomack5174]

Drugs are a doorway to the spirit world, including alcohol and marijuana.

[@_lithp]

I don't do psychedelics, but I do smoke weed, and I've had countless "spiritual breakthroughs" that all reinforced the futility of life without God.

[@keithwilson6060]

Sounds like you discovered the futility of life without weed.

[@Charles.Wright]

If by "spiritual breakthrough," you mean coming to a realization that it's a terrible idea, then amen.

[@mustangNJD]

@@Charles.Wright Dont forget though that God made these substances

[@cristiancristmas4354]

@@mustangNJD God also made grapes, does that mean we should get drunk just because he made it? No, be sober minded and vigilant for the devil roams around like a roaring lion

[@canucktruckerbear]

That's kinda scary And that's coming from a christian who medicates, I won't do pharmaceuticals.... But it's just that, having spiritual breakthroughs because of it??? Dude! Test those spirits!!!

[@lootbird]

Haha that not what micro dosing means. Who watches these other than me?

[@charliestubbs6151]

The angelic and demonic realm are the same. There, God permits the opposites to clash. There can be no good and no progress towards perfection if good does not have a starting block to push against. The Bible arrives to us from altered states of consciousness. Not just psychedelics, but not exclude psychedelics either. Not everyone has to be a mystic or anything like that. But to scorn mysticism across the board is short sighted, as you scorn the class of people who first obtained the insights found in your own holy book.

[@charliestubbs6151]

Christianity must learn to stop shooting itself in the foot

[@fahmiahmed8398]

I would advise anyone to leavem alone, especially a Christian, live the supernatural everyday odyssey of dying to yourself while alive, and Christ living in you, doesn’t get more “far out” than that man

[@1kings18apologetics6]

Doug, despite whatever moral positions you claim to promote, I can't get past your nonverbal cues. Even if I didn't already strongly disagree with your methods to establishing as true what you presuppositionally want to believe is true, I would regard you as morally suspicious, and possibly even dangerous. There is a tell in the narrowing of your eyes and sideways glances that I have been conditioned to immediately mark as a warning sign, despite whatever else may be coming out of your mouth.

[@dumpsterfire79]

Lol the thumbnail make it seem like Doug is tripping out himself. Or possessed or some shit.

[@Mr_Fairdale]

Psychedelics do indeed scare me. The 3am “dreams” shaking me out of sleep are enough for now 😅

[@nateauld]

A lot of the strength of growth through psychedelics come from them sometimes forcing you to confront what you're most afraid of. Not adjuring you to do psychedelics but fear is a blockade to growth and shouldn't be the reason we dismiss psychedelics (imo).

[@cosmictreason2242]

It’s a chemical placebo, Nate. Clearly you have a bias

[@mosesking2923]

Puritanism is not real Christianity. Doug’s poor argument against marijuana along with poor arguments against psychedelics are precisely why young people are leaving the church. Alcohol is perfectly fine while drunkenness isn’t, according to the Bible. The same holds true for other substances. We need to follow the WORD and not fallible men’s interpretations.

[@jawshh559]

I agree. His argument can best be summed up in his last sentence during this recording: “I don’t like it”. Please make no mistake, I love pastor Wilson. I respect him and feel he is a brave truth teller and light bringer in a world that desperately needs it. I just kindly disagree with him on this topic as well as the topic of cannabis. That said, I support him in his teaching and ministry emphatically as his brother in Christ. God bless Pastor Wilson

[@_lithp]

Really? God is so helpless that Doug's "poor arguments" are sweeping children away from salvation? Get a grip.

[@keithwilson6060]

The “Why young people are leaving the church” argument, while tired and more of a leftist tool, is also a poor argument FOR drug use by Christians. Young people are sinners just the same as everyone else. Are we supposed to placate sinners so they don’t leave?

[@Charles.Wright]

> leaving the church because of weed Gimme a break

[@_lithp]

@Bob the Grouch It may have affected your life experience, but it did not affect your salvation.

[@floydjohnson1617]

I really don’t enjoy these know it all’s just because that’s your experience don’t critique someone’s journey getting closer to god

[@Kunjesvari]

This is a pretty uneducated and limited perspective from someone who's already bought and sold on a religious path that doesn't allow for the involution of experienced spirituality, but promotes following a doctrine as set out by men who more than 2000 years ago must likely ingested mushrooms in order to have their gnostic revelations. 🤷‍♀️ Go figure.