Capacitor Wars: Tantalum vs Ceramic

[@sbreheny]

MLCC capacitors use "class II" dielectrics which are very highly polarizable ceramics like Barium Titanate. These cause MLCCs to suffer from a number of non-ideal behaviors like variation of capacitance with applied voltage, as well as less stable capacitance over temperature and piezoelectric behavior (they can act like tiny microphones and speakers). When a DC bias voltage is applied, their capacitance goes down over time until it settles to a new value. When the bias is removed, the capacitance will go partially back but not entirely - there is some hysteresis. This can be fully reversed by heating them up and allowing them to cool back down - a form of annealing. Even the best MLCC class II capacitors, those whose EIA designator begins with the letter X (like X5R) have about a 40 or 50% reduction in capacitance from 0V bias to half of their rated voltage. They end up at something like only 20% of the rated cap value at full rated voltage. Like Tantalums, they can also fail shorted, but usually not as dramatically as tantalums. MLCCs often have even LOWER ESR than a similarly-sized Tantalum cap. So, MLCCs have definite advantages and disadvantages. Pretty much the only area where it still makes sense to use Tantalum caps is when you need a stable, large capacitance in a small size. If you don't care so much about size, metal film caps are superior.

[@bjtaudio]

Excellent reply. Saved me answering the question.

[@jorgevarela710]

@bettagenetics: Ceramic capacitors with NPO(COG) dielectric are very stable. To be fair, it all depends on the application when considering Tantalum vs Ceramic capacitors. Johanson Dielectrics and Johanson Technology have some good Technical Application Notes that demystify ceramic capacitors. Cheers!

[@NoahSpurrier]

Tantalum are also very sensitive to the wrong polarity. Electrolytics are a bit more robust when installed backwards. I have never actually destroyed one, whereas I have destroyed a few tantalums in the past due to incorrect installation. This happened under light loads, well below their max voltage rating. They never did anything dramatic. They just stopped working.... It might have just been bad luck, but now I try to avoid tantalum.

[@Mark1024MAK]

Noah Spurrier The working voltage has to be derated due to temperature and if the capacitors ripple current is high. Also be careful if the circuit has voltage spikes, as again, this affects their life.

[@peterveer7798]

Noah Spurrier MLCC how is that working ?

[@rich1051414]

Tantalum not only likes to go pop, they are also flammable!

[@rich1051414]

Ceramic is microphonic, so it's not suitable for audio related application, or anything where that would be an issue.

[@mark8664]

Don't ever loose your accent, its bloody marvelous.

[@Paumanokcom]

This is not correct. It was the price of palladium that drove the innovation to base metal electrode MLCC. Tantalum encroachment was just a side show of the war. It was first used in consumer audio and video imaging equipment in Japan; but made its huge leap in notebook computers, handsets were once again- a development of that war.

[@jm-btt]

Very good explanation. Thank you Julian.

[@Dazzwidd]

To get such high capacity in such a small package, ceramic capacitors use ceramic with a very low stability. I think they exhibit a positive going value with a upward rise in temperature, I'm not sure, it could be the other way around. Tantalum caps don't have such great temperature coefficients and are therefore more desirable in applications where things are a bit more critical with regards to the exact value. Have you ever noticed how much bigger NPO ceramics caps of a certain value and voltage tend to be than their less stable counterparts?

[@nsayer]

@OrionPyrotechnics is right. Ceramic caps lose capacitance in proportion to the voltage across them. Dave EEVblog Jones has a video showing this phenomenon. For bypass and filtering, it's not tremendously important, but for RC constants or filter cut-off frequencies, it can matter.

[@rich1051414]

Also, due to the very tight tolerances and rigidity of ceramic, any pressure differential will induce a change of capacitance, which will induce voltage out one of the ends.

[@tinkertom3683]

I've started my journey into the world of electronics and the first question I have is how can we find the values of a multilayer ceramic capacitor that is shorted without schematics??

[@potassiumchloride6968]

by testing another good circuit board with good capacitor 😁

[@JulianIlett]

No. I did read that ceramic has a lower ESR, but that didn't really explain the phenomenon.

[@plutomanny]

nice

[@JoeyaoChou]

MLCC has its drawback.Because of Ceremmatic Piezoelectricity, MLCC's capacitance is NOT constant especially for those >0.1μF ones. If you use MLCC as power smoothing capacitor, MLCC has a DC Bias not equal to zero, and the capacitance decrease significantly. But it's not a big deal, just choose BIG MLCC when used as power smoothing capacitor.

[@peterveer7798]

Joeyao Chou what does MLCC in devices ?

[@RedDeckRedemption]

How does one tell with ceramic capacitors if they're tantalum or palladium? If they are neither, what metal is in it?

[@SomeDudeInBaltimore]

Tantalum is a conflict resource anyway, so another good reason to go with ceramic instead.

[@nor4277]

They make the small blue disk high voltage cap.

[@johncgibson4720]

nice video. I don't understand why tantalum is still used in cell phones though. Just get rid of it already.

[@tjasont1]

NO need to look into it ceramics move like crazy the heat of your hand will make a ceramic move this is why they are not suitable for oscillators or timing circuits only bypass and stuff like. The exception to this is the NP0 ceramic but they are generally low value and not as cheap. Really good video is Mr. Carlsons which capacitor does some very interesting experiments with drift. On GenRad damn this video is old my bad

[@kevinsturgess1475]

Hi Julian how do i tell if it is a tantalum capacitor on a circuit board if it is unmarked. I have boards that are marked with a + and after removing the capacitor from the board,I've found it is polarized/magnetic.Dose this mean it is tantalum. thanx Kevin

[@JulianIlett]

Kevin Sturgess Tantalum capacitors seem to have a + near the positive lead; electrolytics generally have a - near the negative lead. I just put a magnet on a tantalum bead capacitor, but it sticks to the component leads, not the body.

[@sbreheny]

+Circle Square Yes! Many kinds of components have steel leads, which is likely what is being attracted to a magnet here.

[@svecoldr]

Nice video. BTW: what is it that protects the circuit at ca. 2:30? It looks like a gel.

[@AfdhalAtiffTan]

Oldrich Svec heatshrink tube?

[@Clark-Mills]

To me it looks like there was heat-shrink tube that then had hot-melt-glue injected. The heat-shrink-tube has been removed by the time we see it. That's my guess anyway. :)

[@Tom2404]

I had a very old PC motherboard and one of tantalum caps just explpoded.

[@xiaotianzhang6251]

It's not necessary to hold them throughout the video.

[@majkosk8x]

why not, i like to see them, they are cute :D

[@RSP13]

Neither is necessary to comment the obvious

[@akosv96]

Your comment is not necessary

[@tecnisdaimondm.g9321]

Excelente tengobun multimetro fluke que tiene unos capacitores de tantalio,polarizados y los e retirado y comprobado con un multimetro analogico en su carga y descarga y efectivamente no funcionan una esr,mal

[@mrjason9382]

Non polar capacitor as the ceramic and the tantalum cap id polarized so

[@das250250]

Did you ever resolve this ? Is there another part to this video ?

[@ihyaulumuddin1711]

To test a capacitor u need to discharge the current inside by simpli short it.

[@08Ultrasonic]

It would have been great if you had looked in to the two capacitors before making the video.

[@vaughnscrapper1722]

Where do you find these?

[@yashshah5950]

Sir, can I use ceramic or electrolytic capacitor for the nrf24l01+ module , to resolve the battery problems??

[@mrjason9382]

Nice