A step by step guide for patch and roundball loads - CnB's Q&A #2

[@capandball]

Please ask your questions under this post!

[@ethankaryadi37]

Ok this is probably my second time asking what you carry on your person everyday. You don’t have to mention everything, just basic stuff.

[@rgbgamingfridge]

favourite gun oil?

[@capandball]

@@ethankaryadi37 That's too personal. :) SIG P365

[@capandball]

@@rgbgamingfridge Brunox orange color for everyday use, and green for longer conservation.

[@rgbgamingfridge]

@@capandball brunox is great, it also helps with mild lead removal

[@theprancingprussian]

I love this channel, no clickbait, no fake overreactions, just pure history and the firearms that made each year

[@Bayan1905]

I've been shooting black powder rifles since I was 18 in 1995, and you never stop learning, videos like this explain a lot about how it isn't just as simple as buying patches and the roundballs and go shooting. There's a lot about load development, but once you get it and you reach that magical formula, then it becomes a joy to shoot patched roundballs.

[@aaaht3810]

I've been shooting muzzleloaders since 1967. I am still learning. This was a great video.

[@wolfwind9658]

I used to think black powder wasn't very accurate, but then I found this channel.

[@capandball]

It is. :) Just a bit slower in every aspect. But that's why we love it.

[@deletdis6173]

​@@capandballAnd that's why we love your channel

[@theol3199]

Years of trial and error and research could’ve been saved with a video like this. My 50 cal 1:60 twist hawken likes 90 grains of powder. Seems ridiculously high but it prints a really good group for up to 130 yards. Dropping fast after tha

[@richardt.4224]

As usual a very informative video, thank you. My only comment would be to add to your comments on patch damage! Small cuts in a circle can also be made by an unlapped or poorly lapped barrel which has left roughness in the bore! The fix (as you will know C&B), cast a led slug in the bore and attach it to a rod that can spin, then use a fine cutting paste and lap the rifling.

[@capandball]

Yes, you are right. The rifling is a also a proof if a gun was designed for patched round ball or conicals: rounded edges are for PRB, sharp edges for conicals.

[@thomaszaccone3960]

VERY useful article. Thank you. And God bless Hungary.

[@thomaszaccone3960]

@@PizomGagal How is that possible? You are right about Hungary. But i thought Poland was still a good place too.

[@thomaszaccone3960]

@@PizomGagal So sad. Evil

[@stevebarzee7340]

The best clear concise explanation of the best way to load and shoot round balls. In the early 70s when I started shooting BP there were a lot of articles and opinions. Most were wrong or ineffective. The pure cotton or linen patch and beeswax/mutton tallow is the best and it’s historically accurate also.

[@peterparsons7141]

Thank you for the excellent information filled video. I enjoy reading and researching Blackpowder related material. It’s part of the enjoyment of the hobby. I’m very experienced shooter, and have used many types of firearms, from my first Blackpowder pistol that my brother and I made 55 years ago. After a lifetime of shooting and hunting, I’m back where I started and have acquired a Nice English sporting rifle of the Volunteer era. With a rifled barrel. It’s approximately.478 cal., and I am having great challenge locating a good conical projectile for target shooting. For the 2023 Canada Whitetail Deer hunting season I will hunt with a .45 cal. Patched Round ball. I have enjoyed many of your videos, entertaining and fact filled. I really like seeing some of the fine old Blackpowder firearms. In the last 20 years many people in my area started using modern BP rifles because of an extended hunting seasons. Shooters seem to be changing from modern type equipment , to traditional type equipment. Traditional equipment works well and many more options for shooting accoutrements, powders and projectiles. +PLUS traditional BP firearms are 100% COOLER than the modern equipment. Se you at the Range or in the field !

[@davemeise2192]

That's very well explained. I like your starting powder charge formula. I tried my .72 caliber and it's twist rate and it's within five grains of my powder charge I use for hunting. Excellent!!

[@robertlewis8295]

So, if I want to shoot parched round ball in my Armisport 1853 Enfield, starting charge would be (.58x48x2)= 55.68 grains. So roughly 56 grains. The original minie ball load used roughly 69 grains in a 1:78" barrel, that tells me how sound the formula is as a starting point for the lighter round ball. Thanks for the info. I'll work up loads for my .50 Kentucky rifle, and maybe even for my .44 revolvers.

[@Hp2G1]

You have summarized very well all aspects of the patch and round-ball loads. It would have been a great help when I started many years ago... I started shooting with round ball, then moved to LEE R.E.A.L. bullets and different Sabots, in search of more power and accuracy. But now I shoot mostly for pleasure at medium distance, so I came back to round-balls for their simplicity. Still, they can be surprisingly accurate when loaded right. Thanks for the great video! 🙂

[@jeffshootsstuff]

I've been shooting blackpowder firearms for almost 40 years and this was still very helpful to me. thanks!

[@ixb1]

My last shooting session was 40 shots with spit patch and no cleaning in between.

[@thegioiongvat-animal9383]

I also want to try it out once

[@alamosabill201]

Excellent and very informative and interesting.👍

[@Tammy-un3ql]

your videos have been invaluble !🤣🤣👌👌

[@timothyruggles3031]

Thank you 🎉

[@johnhoward7298]

Where can I get a funnel like that for My .32cal. rifle ?

[@jamesspaleta4838]

How does the number of rifle grooves impact your ideal load?

[@blazerbarrel2]

Thank you for this video , very informational to any one shooting patched ball muzzle loading . I keep having trouble with wiping my barrel after a few shots , even one shot . My cleaning rod keeps getting stuck in the barrel . Trying to pull it out is an almost impossible task . The button jag has been filled way under sized , the cleaning patch has been Reduced to almost nothing , even damp patches are hard to pull out . I am struggling to almost quitting black powder altogether . Any thing you can present would help me and probably others .

[@capandball]

Hi, what is your lube on the patch?

[@blazerbarrel2]

Wonderlube is one , spit another , similar problem shooting a paperpatched conical in my .451 pedersoli gibbs . End up a WET patch after each shot taking me much time to dry out the barrel and primer area .

[@capandball]

@@blazerbarrel2 Both spit and wonderlube should work. What is the condition of your bore?

[@blazerbarrel2]

Very good on all of my muzzle loaders . Brand new gibbs , various newer patched ball .45 cal and 50 cal rifles .

[@douglasmaccullagh7865]

I am wondering about the long funnel. Were do I buy one, or how do I make one?

[@capandball]

Pedersoli makes them.

[@douglasmaccullagh7865]

@@capandball Thank you

[@johannesmichaelalhaugthoma4215]

Keep your powder dry!

[@forkthepork]

I harvested a nice doe last weekend with my 50 cal Hawken-type caplock. Pure lead .490 ball that I cast myself, pillow ticking patch, and 75 grains of 3f Pyrodex. Right through the heart, ran about 30 yards and piled up.

[@capandball]

Hail to the Hunter!

[@allletters4750]

Found you a few years ago and bought your paper cartridge kit for my 2nd model dragoon, your videos have been invaluble in helping me in Black powder shooting both revolvers and my rifle. Keep up the good work Thank you from Maine

[@kirkboswell2575]

👍 Very good. You summed things up nicely. You also reminded me of some of the trials and tribulations I had when starting out 🙂. New members to the black powder community will benefit from watching this video. 👍

[@CameronMcCreary]

When I was young around the early 1970s when I lived in Long Beach, California the local plumbers were taking the lead pipes out of houses and they donated the near pure lead piping to the local gun shops. This was when I was making my own bullets and I would pick up free lead pipe and melt it up and made my bullets. Thanks Cap n'Ball for the presentation. Lead is expensive these days and the State of California government would rather see people shoot bismuth based bullets out of their muzzle loaders.

[@MB-nn3jw]

Your videos over the years piqued my interest in muzzle loader revolvers. I never had much interest in them until I started watching your videos. This current video has given me such useful information. You are clear, concise, and as always, well-spoken. Great video and thanks.

[@capandball]

Many thanks for the good words!

[@edschneeman2744]

Excellent Video! as always.

[@capandball]

Thanks Eddy!

[@cowboywoodard2569]

I was taught very well when I was young. And was target shooting my weapons were made for me (German made) the Rule here is..just enough powder to hit the target! Has this young man said is very very factual. Thank You

[@TheHappy2cu]

Thanks for the video. They are always fun to watch, and informative.

[@1248dl]

Thank you. I've been doing it correctly.

[@bigbilllasalle]

Do you find that the alignment of the threads in the patch with the bore makes any difference? To put it another way, if using striped pillow ticking, does it make any difference if the stripes which represent the woof or warp of the fabric are always aligned vertically or horizontally with the bore (or front sight) thank you.

[@roseybut]

I'm relatively new to black powder shooting and I find your videos very helpful and inspiring. Thank you very much for all your help and guidance. I love the "beautiful bright Hunglish Language"

[@1czechit1]

This is really good advice. Thank you.

[@garryreece8604]

I love your channel, I'm from Indiana, USA and have been in the past a bird hunter, because I could afford hunting birds and I own several 16 gage shot guns. (one brand new one I've never shot) 16 gage because I'm a small person and 12 gages bruise me. However, we've had some really heavy snows here that have killed the ground birds and our state isn't interested in restocking them. I haven't heard a quail in many years. I'd love to get into cap and ball shooting. But I don't even know what gun I should purchase for my first gun.

[@davecarlson1918]

I'm a bit lost by the formula you used for your .45 cal. pistol with a rate of twist 1 turn in 19". You multiplied .45 by the inches in the rate of twist, and then divided it by 2 to arrive at a basic load of 17.1 grains of powder, which you then backed off five-shot groups at a time until you got the most accurate powder charge. But if I take a patched round ball rifle that is .50 cal, with a rate of twist of 1 turn in 66 inches, and then do the math, I get a basic charge of fully 66 grains of powder? So then back off from that... Or for a .32 cal. flintlock rifle, it goes from .32 x 48 x 2 to arrive at 30.72 grains of powder. Or is the math only good for pistols?

[@johnhoward7298]

I just bought a used cva .32 cal rifle on Gun Broker . ( haven't received it yet ) This is intended to be a learning tool . Target shooting ( plinking from a good rest at 58 ft . ) for now . This should allow Me to learn the basics . Then , maybe next season I can hunt small game a little . I chose the small caliber muzzleloader ( percussion rifle ) because I have always wanted one mostly , but , it takes the least amount of powder etc .

[@WriteWisePro]

You are a great person and a good teacher. I really like your videos. A very good job.

[@cowboywoodard2569]

Sir what is your name? When I text here I abide by good manners. I have turned on alot of people your way and also buying your products. Very good quality I might add .Thanks Again

[@iduswelton9567]

Cap&Ball weapons are pretty to look at but to much trouble for me to keep up with - ill stick with modern firearms - like .357mag or .45 long colt revolvers or .380 semi-auto pistol 😀

[@Numl0k]

At the 6 minute mark, you go into the process of slugging the barrel to determine your groove to groove diameter. Is there some reason you can't just use the caliper to determine this? Only reason I can think of is the width of the caliper points causing a gap on a round surface, but every good caliper I've used has had very sharp points and doesn't seem like it would throw the measurement off. I'm sure there's a good reason you're doing it that way, but I just can't figure it out!

[@johnhoward7298]

I'm not sure how ethical, or if this is legal even , but I just saw A Man kill a deer with a .32 cal percussion rifle ! The deer ran ,but not as far as I would have thought . ( He used a conical bullet , & hit it right at the top of the right front shoulder )

[@657449]

Always have a notebook in your range bag. Write down the range conditions and Everything you do.

[@sebchacal]

Thanks for this share !

[@gortbot7748]

I suggested to Ballistic High Speed channel to join Cap and Ball for some in-depth analysis of patched ball external ballistics, when the patch separates from the ball, and also black powder birdshot columns at the moment the wads fall away. We've always been curious about patch and wad effects on accuracy.

[@capandball]

That would a perfect idea.

[@gortbot7748]

@@capandball: Well, Sir. Why don't you send them an email? Those gents have some very high tech cameras and recording equipment.

[@Arhanar-xg9rf]

Like N 493.❤😊😊😊

[@scottobrian7229]

Thank you for the great info and videos. I have shot .BP rifle for many years mini ball. Never patched round ball. I just bought .69 cal 1820 conversion Harper ferry. I will be shooting this. I will be using Goex. Now question is 3f or 2f. I've been told anything bigger than 58 I should be using 2F. Is this true?

[@johnndavis7647]

1F or 1.5F musket powder would be fine too and more historically accurate. The finer grains will take a little smaller charge. I would go with nothing smaller than 2F.

[@parabelumsq2lkt960]

👍👍👍🙂

[@tomasz9869]

Pistol .45 x 19 x 2 All clear What is the formula for a rifle?

[@capandball]

The same. But it only works for patched round balls. Barrel length does not matter. What matters is the twist rate.

[@ditzydoo4378]

Back to grassroots. an excellent talk for the beginner, or one who is still guessing at loads.

[@TheNutriarat]

GREAT INFORMATION!! Thanks for this. Should really help with my shooting.

[@johnndavis7647]

A word for older target shooters. Shooting a match is a lot of work. I see old guys who are just exhausted at the end of a match. Here's what I do to conserve energy. I found a 50 round cartridge box for 30-06 size cases. I rounded up 50 fired 30-06 cases and 50 fired 9mm cases. I pre-measured my powder charges and put them up in the 30-06 cases and I capped the filled cases with the 9mm brass. It takes a lot of movements and concentration to pour accurate powder charges on the shooting bench. I only have so much physical and mental energy. I save that for placing accurate shots on paper. Next, I pre-cut my patches. Round or square the gun doesn't care. I put them in a tin and I pour a little olive oil over them. You can use Ballistol or Moosemilk if you like Olive oil works fine for my local match . Doing as many things as possible in advance saves me a lot of time and energy during the match. I bring a folding chair and rest while the other guys are finishing their relay.. I hope this helps some of you old guys to keep on enjoying shooting matches for many more years. Thanks C&B for all you do. John Davis Jax Fl

[@draklord18283]

I know its an older video but this is going to help out alot as I just ordered my first black powder "Musket". Im super excited as ive always wanted to get into black powder shooting. As an hobbyist gunsmith i picked up an untouched Napal made Brunswick p1841. I cant wait to clean it up see if it needs "Belted" balls and then go shooting!

[@greglaroche1753]

This was very interesting and informative. Thanks. Too bad you didn’t add something about loading round balls for smooth bores.

[@brucequam7416]

Such clear explanations of each facet of the procedure. Personally, I prefer the patched round ball for hunting with my .54.

[@IamtheIZ0D]

Ironically, just finished building a kit rifle inspired by French Fusils, and started developing the load this past weekend. Still have to nail down the powder charge, but started with 80 grns and that was getting a roughly 2-3 inch group at 50 yards, right around what the starting formula said it should be. I'm still going to experiment with it, but pretty neat how that kinda fell into place.

[@lynnie0526]

Great video as always. My question is what is your lube % tallow to bees wax? I use 2 parts tallow to 1 part bees wax for my c&b revolver wads and I dip my cast bullets for paper cartridges in a 50/ 50 mix Thank you John

[@Doc_Vega]

I am shooting Olympic style air pistol for 10 years, .22lr Olympic sportpistol for a few years and higher caliber handguns for a year. But your channel inspired me try out traditional black powder guns. I have to qualify in a test to be able to buy bp or smokeless powder here in Germany but after that I can start. Thank you 😊

[@calebcrilow7505]

Just bought a bounty hunter pistol. Fancy this video being published same day.

[@deandeann1541]

"Technically they are a joy to shoot..." I agree with that. A joy to cast too. It's even a joy to find some soft lead!

[@colinarmstrong1892]

Another excellent video, clear, precise, and informative. Please keep them coming as they help us old shooters as well as the new ones

[@niclbicl]

nice video as always have been shooting like that for a long time but still a very good informative video really nice! Greetings from austria

[@k9six185]

I am working up a load tomorrow for my hawken replica and I did your equation and now know where I need to start …..thanks and great video

[@pauleades9037]

Excellent advice as always. Many thanks from the UK!

[@jameswhite465]

Thank you for the information it was helpful .

[@jharchery4117]

Excellent as always. Thank you.

[@danielwarren8539]

Really interesting. Thanks.

[@luib7701]

0:03 nice shot!

[@ABSilverback]

Great video, lots of good information.

[@jeremysiegel10]

I will be sure to follow your advice!

[@theolewell7535]

thank you for this video :)

[@abitofapickle6255]

Love the videos. Especially the ones involving the .45-70. That was the first cartridge that I ever shot loaded with black powder.

[@capandball]

I've just loaded some BP cartridges with PP bullets for m,my Rolling Block. Can't wait to try them.

[@slimtrvper5542]

i own a lot of guns, but muzzleloader is my favorite💯💯

[@apiFerrari]

same here 🙂

[@keithmoore5306]

over here some have taken to using a 50/50 mix of dawn dish washing soap and water for a range patch lube!! wouldn;t want it for a hunting lube but a range lube??

[@capandball]

If it works, it works. I tried many things before I settled for the spit patch for target shooting and the 1:9 beeswax:tallow for hunting. I am conservative. I follow the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" principle. :)

[@keithmoore5306]

@@capandballi tend to go 1 to 8 myself when i make lube otherwise i stick with CVA bore butter (tallow can be hard to get around here most of the time and i tend to use my hunting load on the range as well as in the field simply because it's a hunting gun!) just thought i'd mention it going on over here seeing how strange it sounds! personally, it may be OK for range use with a lot of firing being done and it's only there on the powder charge a minute at most but i wouldn't want that sitting on a powder charge in a hunt, who knows what that would do to the powder in a day or two til you take the shot!

[@OsoBipolar]

Kentucky rifle?

[@capandball]

Well, that's definitely a patch roundball rifle.

[@paulmartin6895]

You use 3 F powder for all rifle loads and for tallow and bees wax is it 50/50 ? I have a 50cal . I will use it for hunting deer .

[@capandball]

It depends. For patch roundball rifles 3F, 2F, 1,5Fg and 1 Fg will all work well. The mix is 1:9 beeswax - tallow. 50-50 is too hard.

[@paulmartin6895]

@@capandball ok thank you for explaining this to me

[@dangvorbei5304]

I like the spacer on your ramrod that ensures consistent seating depth. Does anyone still use false muzzles for the same purpose, or is that more of a hassle than it's worth?

[@denisdegamon8224]

Some riffles are made specically for a false muzzle. You can see where the false muzzle pins line up with the indents on the muzzle. And yes such devises load your patches concentric with the bore and avoids damage to your rifles muzzle crown from the loading process. Any damage to your myzzles crown will adversely affect your rifles accuracy.

[@dangvorbei5304]

@@denisdegamon8224 Yeah, you used to see them on lots of 1850s target and sniper rifles, and it's a great idea. The ramrod spacer seems like a different approach to the same problem.

[@stevetuttle5472]

Thank you for sharing your knowledge! Question, what is your most accurate cap and ball revolver and your favorite load for it?

[@capandball]

My original M1863 Remington New Model Army. 18 gr 3Fg Swiss + 21 grain semolina + .457 RB lubet with Chariot's revolver lube.

[@stevetuttle5472]

@@capandball Thank you! I have a Uberti replica that I really like and will try that one after I slug the bore per your instructions. I love that you shoot the originals! History comes alive!

[@capandball]

@@stevetuttle5472 Which Uberti revolver?

[@stevetuttle5472]

⁠@@capandballM1858 New Army, a beautiful revolver!

[@capandball]

@@stevetuttle5472 I've been shooting an Uberti Remi for years. Here is a very accurate load: 15 gr Swiss 3Fg + 24 grain semolina + .454 RB + Chariot lube. A tack driver!