Captain Benteen: Custer & the Washita Fight II. Lives of the Little Bighorn

[@ronaldringler1497]

The problem with your videos is they're highly addictive!

[@SiobhanFallon7]

There are worst addictions... ;)

[@joeyscott5342]

Very nice presentation. My grandparents owned the land The Battle of Washita was fought on and I live close by and spent lots of time on site. Your presentation was pretty much spot on unlike some I have seen. The only mistake I saw and it was very small was at 31:52 where you say they went SW to Ft Cobb, it is actually SE down the Washita River to Ft Cobb. I was kind of surprised there was no mention (or I missed it) of Black Kettle and his wife being killed. And I commend you on mentioning Clara Blinn and her child, most others omit them. Her baby had his head bashed against a tree at the start of the battle. It is great to see when someone has interest in this fight. I have several bullet casings, metal arrowheads and a bridle or saddle conch with US on it from the battle. Unfortunately, the spot Elliot and his men were killed has never been found with total accuracy.

[@SiobhanFallon7]

Wow, Joey, that's incredible that you know the area so well! Rare to find a person who has actually walked it like you. I wish we could find the bodies of Elliot's soldiers and give them a proper military burial somewhere, and acknowledge them. Joey, I have "series" on the Washita and if you get a chance to watch, please let me know what other mistakes I make. I have a video on Chief Black Kettle that delves into his life a bit more, and I also have one dedicated to Clara Blinn. So glad you watched and took the time to comment. I hope to hear from you again!

[@joeyscott5342]

The bodies of the soldiers are supposedly buried in a cemetery northeast about 5 miles of the site. I have my doubts, but that is currently the accepted location. @@SiobhanFallon7

[@EndingSimple]

I'll second that! Highly addictive.

[@michaelhart6318]

These presentations are really enjoyable and well done. Thankyou for doing them. Oh Fred had a chip on his shoulder and a 'give me a reason attitude.' Just as Godfrey and Meyers 'didn't notice anything out of the ordinary' while Elliot was fighting for his life, I wonder if at Weir point, Benteen 'didn't notice anything out of the ordinary' while Custer was fighting for his life. More than likely, Custer had already met his demise. Given the overwhelming odds, is an army obligated to attempt a frivolous rescue that is certain to fail and eventually result in the annihilation of the entire regiment? Maybe the concept of cut your losses doesn't apply in combat. An ethical conundrum.

[@JackFisher-id3nt]

Another home run Siobhan!! These are always so informative, enjoyable and creative! Thanks for doing them!

[@SiobhanFallon7]

THANK YOU!!

[@XXawacs77]

Thanks!

[@SiobhanFallon7]

Wow!!!! 🎉 thank you so much, Robert! So very good of you! You have made my week!!! 🙏

[@MilesWalterKeogh]

Thank you for this one! Excellent.

[@SiobhanFallon7]

So good of you to comment! Thanks so much for watching!

[@joesphmurphy4013]

Siobahn: amazing stories and insights into the lives of soldiers forgotten by history and time. I am a student, keep them coming, Thanks.

[@SiobhanFallon7]

Thank you! I will! 🙏🎉🙏

[@58landman]

I've read a great deal about the 7th and I came away with the impression that Custer had a set of rules and expectations for himself and a completely different set for his subordinates, including enlisted men. His punishments were extreme and were often tendered by himself via his own counsel and he was also a liar of large proportion. Benteen was easily irritated, I believe, by Custer's visible attributes of poor command and his recklessness, prob made worse by continued association with Custer and his desire to be with his family rather than in a cav camp. Neither officer contributed to a good marriage for a life as a cavalry commander.

[@GrayFoxShopL.L.C.]

Thank you for posting these videos I do enjoy them very much. I am a Custer addict as well and although I am a big fan of his I do really like Benteen too, finding him a very interesting fellow. Reading about his Civil War record nothing points to cowardice that I can see with maybe only the events the LBH to point that. Although I beg to differ about cowardice in regard to Benteen he is a complicated individual to say the least. Looking back from nearly 150 years in the comfort of a warm room at a computer it is hard to put ones self into that time and place. The command was divided, Reno had been repulsed and had very little cohesive control of what was left of his command. By the time Benteen arrived Reno was desperate for him to stay and fortify his position. Although Benteen had received the Martini note to bring pack and he was on his way Reno was the superior officer. And no one knew what was happening to Custer at least at first, that is until Weir made his trek to find out what was happening. I think without Benteen Reno's defense would have collapsed and there were more than a few who were there that had the same opinion and noted his cool demeanor during a stressful time. I have been the the Little Big Horn battle site twice I have never taken a horseback ride over the battlefield something I would love to do. But I am an experienced horseman and have ridden in very rough conditions both here in New England and out in Wyoming and viewing the ground that was covered during the Reno retreat its remarkable that anyone was able to get away. I am not a fan of Reno's but considering what had happen it is understandable that he would want Benteen to stay. Just my opinion. Rob

[@SiobhanFallon7]

Great points, Rob, thank you!! I find Benteen fascinating myself and love his letters. So many strong personalities in the 7th CAV. Hope to hear from you again!

[@josephstabile9154]

Thx for a great presentation that I'm sure required pulling together many sources, often difficult to come by/out of print. You set the stage nicely for the LBH campaign, where, I maintain, Benteen, with a passive-aggressive streak a mile wide, got Custer back, but good--a sort of reverse Joel Elliot & his command. Reno's retreat gave the 'perfect' excuse for his disobedience, but his dawdling at the morass ("I wonder what the old man is up to, keeping us here. Custer will be after us with a sharp stick when he finds out we've been dawdling here all afternoon."), and pocketing without word Cooke's (Custer's) direct, urgent written orders, and courrier Kanipe's urgent verbal orders: "The general wants you to come quick, and bring those pack mules straight across country. And, if any of those ammunition packs come loose, you're to just cut 'em free."--all evidence of his determined resistance. But his subalterns saw & knew better, and could tell by the gunfire the fight was in earnest, and knew that, even in the absence of orders, their first duty was to go to the sound of gunfire. By not going--Weir & Godfrey eventually got clear enough to try--Benteen & Reno not only deprived Custer of 7/12ths of the forces in Custer's fight, but by not notifying Custer of their plan to 'sit this one out', and not obey orders, they caused Custer to make the unnecessary and fatal troop dispositions of sending L co. to fight to keep a corridor open to Benteen, and I co. to defend L's flank, ultimately allowing the Indians to defeat them in detail. The officers of the 7th understood this, but, constrained by not wanting to destroy what was left of the 7th's reputation publicly, including at the '79 BOI, bit their tongues. But life, post LBH, did not go smoothly for Reno & Benteen in the 7th. These two were both flawed in ways that ill-served Custer in commanding the 7th, and, I believe Custer's greatest mistake was in being too cognizant of ruining a subordinate's career, and not reassigning them out of the 7th. Depending on them at LBH was disastrous.

[@SiobhanFallon7]

Wow, Joseph, you know this battle inside and out!! Thanks for the fantastic insights and for taking the time to comment here! Much appreciated, Siobhan

[@cliffordnewell2445]

Benteen was the cancer at the heart of the 7th Cavalry. He was a great soldier, but his bitterness and jealousy of Custer was a key reason for Custer's disaster and the death of over 200 of Benteen's fellow soldiers on the Greassy Grass.

[@SiobhanFallon7]

I agree that his dislike of his commander was detrimental to the unity of the 7th.

[@tbcoachniblick1208]

Benteen was an educated man heavily in the classics...he also developed a very pragmatic approach to conflict and problem solving... this was the opposite of Custers management style. Benteen did not suffer fools lightly and considered Custer along with others fools. If you take time to read his letters to Kate prior to LBH and then those to other friends after the LBH fallout you get a unique insight innto his personality. His leadership and bravery are unquestioned but his dislike for those he felt were flawed and inferior was openly aparrent. His letters to Kate during the Yellowstone and Blackhills expeditions are quite revealing of others in the command.his love of baseball and fly-fishing seemed to be fun amusements. In his later postings, he did fall victim to strong ďrink and was mustered out due to its consequences. It is for certain tha had he not halted to aid Reno and pretty much take over leadership of the seige, they all might have been wiped out. After all the hoopla of who was responsible for this or that it is quite clear Custer had no idea of the size of the village and available fighting warriors and caught himself in a pickle he could not retrieve from.

[@michaellarson938]

I tend to agree with you about Benteen but i believe Gen. Custer intended to capture all the woman and children of the village, but then realized he might need more men to do that with, calling for Benteen, and then piddled around waiting for him to show up which was what got him trapped.

[@Eadbhard]

TbCoachndick: You are incorrect; Custer actually had a good idea how large the village would be. In a meeting, along the Rosebud on 22 June 1876, Custer told his officers that they "might expect to meet anywhere between 800 to 1000 warriors" (see the Godfrey Letters, by Lt. E. Godfrey). Custer's calculations were not too far off the mark. What is more, the regiment had been following an Indian trail up and along Rosebud Creek. This trail was left by Sitting Bull's band of people. At one point, however, (on 24 June) when the trail suddenly cut eastward toward the Wolf Mountains, a new Indian path coming in from the east converged with the original trail Custer had been following (Sitting Bull's trail). As a result, the regiment was now following a trail that was nearly 300 yards wide. Beaten down by thousands upon thousands of pony hooves, travois, and lodge poles, this great swath led straight into the valley of the Little Bighorn. Upon seeing how large and wide the Indian trail had become, Custer was heard to say, "There's more of them than we thought", and he re-estimated the number of warriors to be close to 2000, and his scouts were in accord with this calculation. Again, Custer's estimate was not too far off the mark. The trail they leave behind is a pretty good indicator how large their village might be, don't you think? Everyone in the entire regiment knew they were going up against a damn big village; that's indisputable. "Custer had no idea of the size of the village and available fighting warriors..." Really? I think you're the one who has no idea.

[@michaellarson938]

@@Eadbhard thank you.

[@MarieHammond]

There is no doubt that if Reno and Benteen had made it to the Custer battlefield, all of them would have been killed.

[@Eadbhard]

@@MarieHammond No, not necessarily. If Reno and Benteen did make it to Custer, they may have saved the day. No one can know with any kind of certainty. That being said, your "no doubt all of them would have been killed," comment just shows your ignorance.

[@anthonywalters4452]

Brilliant really informative again .

[@SiobhanFallon7]

You are too kind!! Thank you 🙏🤗

[@meanstreet1545]

I love this channel, only wish I’d have found it sooner! Love the stories told with so much attention to detail and compassion for history! The amount of research done is astounding. I could listen to your content all day…

[@SiobhanFallon7]

So happy to hear that! I just landed in Billings, Montana, and was trying to think of a way to create some videos at the Little Bighorn battlefield this week to share here... 🤔 Kind words from you make me think people might be curious to see what I see. Any ideas for me?

[@deanpeash8953]

Oh I've been waiting for this one this will be good

[@SiobhanFallon7]

I hope it didn't disappoint, Dean! 🙏

[@deanpeash8953]

No, Quite the contrary, That was the most in depth on Reno I've seen or read yet, I knew of the window incident yet in all fairness most books on him dwellv

[@deanpeash8953]

Excuse me,dwell mostly on custer, you have ceartainly done excellent research...thanks

[@SiobhanFallon7]

@deanpeash8953 thank you! Much appreciated, Dean!

[@ericnorment8541]

Just keep getting better ‘n’ better, Siobhan. I see non-fiction history book on your horizon! 😁

[@SiobhanFallon7]

Ha!! We'll see... any book in my near horizon would be nice 😉🤞🙏

[@hugonarvaez2944]

Your an amazing story teller. My respects to you fair Lady, I tip my hat off to you with full respect. We look forward to your new videos.

[@SiobhanFallon7]

Oh, Hugo, thank you!! You always make my week.

[@hugonarvaez2944]

@@SiobhanFallon7 Now,, you had all us in the edge of our seats! Yah,, your gifted,, alright! Thank you for all that hard work behind the scenes staying up late stuff we don't get to see, we are truly are a better and educated people because of people like yourself! Well I look forward to many more adventures you have in store for us! "Until then, I will be ridding into the sunset"

[@SiobhanFallon7]

@@hugonarvaez2944 I was up late last night thinking through other presentations in my head 🤦‍♀️🤣. A friend of mine told me I should come up with a "Benteen dance" to do at the beginning since I seem so excited 🤣 but I tried to tone down my opening enthusiasm on this one so I looked more professional and less insane 🤷‍♀️

[@hugonarvaez2944]

@@SiobhanFallon7 I can't see you doing anything less than "perfect!" You amaze me my fair lady.

[@hugonarvaez2944]

@@SiobhanFallon7 Good morning on this beautiful rainy rain 🌧️☔☔☔☔ day from Los Angeles CA. I just enjoyed that video so much, well I just couldn't get it out my mind! So, I know you are working on some new videos, but could you,, honor me in considering these 2 topics for future historical videos in the future. "Abraham Lincoln's conspirators " " Mexican American" Tejanos ( Texan) soldiers in the Confederacy army" I promise not ask for the JFK conspiracy Or the Bermuda triangle ( Devil's triangle) theory. Well,, maybe 🤔🤔🤔🤔 Hahaha hahaha hahaha! Well be safe dear fair lady.....

[@Gene-kl1br]

You see the Washita river is same , as close it be - by states away . To the Greasy Grass River .

[@davidlord7364]

Very complex relationships! People haven't changed in 100 plus years! Well presented!

[@SiobhanFallon7]

Thank you!!! You are so right

[@JohnnyB-si2ev]

Is it possible that Benteen may have disliked Custer because he feared Custer’s brand of leadership might result in those under his command getting themselves killed?

[@SiobhanFallon7]

Sure, that's a very good point, Johnny. But for the nearly ten years he was under Custer's command, the 7th had very few casualties 🤷🏼‍♀️

[@multipipi1234]

But many desertions

[@frankperkin124]

Outstanding!

[@SiobhanFallon7]

Yay!! Thank you so much!!

[@charlescarroll6955]

Thanks so much for your works

[@SiobhanFallon7]

Thank you!! 🙏 I love learning about these people myself.

[@jameslee9315]

Another quiet brilliant episode. And certainly both Custer and benteen were as bad as one another. But we have never been in the situations they were caught up in . But your knowledge and expertise has and does put those who listen right in there with them. . Thank you very much now with your permission l will go and get my wound attended to. 👌

[@SiobhanFallon7]

🤣 thank you, I think 🤣

[@richarddavenport31]

I love your history lessons!!!!!

[@bobkrarup7766]

Excellent. Enjoyed the presentation

[@SiobhanFallon7]

Thank so much!! Almost finished with the next installment!

[@mattiasbohannon3237]

Excellent presentation

[@SiobhanFallon7]

Thanks so much for watching and commenting! 🙏

[@mattiasbohannon3237]

Your welcome

[@genenoud9048]

Lots of truth to dead men tell no tails. But nor can they defend the actions they took in life. For the voice is gone forever

[@gator83261]

Very good video.

[@SiobhanFallon7]

Thank you!!

[@drstrangelove4998]

It seems to me Benteen thought very highly of himself, and developed a pathological jealousy of Custer’s war record. I don’t think I have ever read a positive word from Benteen regarding Custer. The outcome was inevitable. Just my opinion, opinions may vary. Btw Dividing horses by colour was not new, in Europe at least, ti allowed troops to be identified at a distance in a melee. The arrogant and irrational Benteen imagined it was all about him, to spite him.

[@SiobhanFallon7]

Good points! If you come across other examples of colouring of the horses, please let me know. It makes excellent sense if you are overseeing a large battlefield and need to understand what pieces of your command are moving. And in studying the Little Bighorn, the fact that the greys/ whites were an intact company helps us understand at least a small bit of that battle today. Thank you, Dr. Strangelove!

[@richardcutt727]

I like these videos!

[@SiobhanFallon7]

Thank you so very much!!! Please keep watching! I so appreciate you commenting, Richard, and hope to hear from you again!

[@Mr.56Goldtop]

Benteen's Baseball Club? How cool! I wonder if they had Cracker Jack back then? Naw, probably not. What a shame. In this corner, weghing in at 180 pounds, Fredrick "The Captain" Benteen! LOL! And I can't believe the incredible condition of Benteen's letters! The ink has faded to brown, which is common for that many years but still in amazing condition!

[@SiobhanFallon7]

Yes!! His wife took very good care of his letters!!

[@johnrosbarsky1375]

The Washita is another example of the bad leadership of GAC and it foreshadows the mistakes of the LBH. In this battle, Custer divides his command in the face of the enemy and effectively loses control over its separate elements (which would be a court martial offense if things went badly, by the way). The fate of Major Elliott is lost in the Major's natural aggressiveness in defending his perimeter of the surround of the Indian camp. He charges off against Indian warriors who appear to be threatening that surround. Major Elliott and his men were to discover that the command was outnumbered and they were overwhelmed before they could get word back to the command. As Custer failed to do any reconnaissance before the battle to become aware of the other larger Indian encampments nearby, Custer failed to look for Major Elliott and his men. There is no historical record of him attempting it. Custer had not known until it was too late that he was outnumbered and was unnecessarily hazarding his men. I understand that many justify Custer in not looking for Elliott since he was outnumbered, and that it was not practical despite the supposed fact that the pack train had arrived with the extra ammunition. This creates some questions. If Custer is justified in not looking for and aiding Major Elliott at the Washita, wouldn't it also be that Reno and Benteen were justified for not looking for and aiding Custer at the LBH? It would seem, with all things being equal, that that would be the case. If one finds this disturbing, doesn't this point back to mediocrity of Custer's leadership where, without adequate reconnaissance, he divides his command into separate echelons that can, in turn, be defeated and destroyed in detail? Benteen's anger, and many within the 7th Cavalry, was directed at Custer because of Custer's mediocre leadership. Custer was failing to do the basic military reconnaissance needed to determine the nature and dispositions of the enemy. He was also indifferent to the men under his command. He had no interest in determining the fate of Major Elliott. This would be something that would alienate many in the 7th Cavalry against Custer. At the LBH, many, if not most of the Reno-Benteen men, believed that Custer had abandoned them to their fate. I find Godfrey's account of the Washita unconvincing. If Major Elliott, the second in command, was simply left and not accounted for, it must point back to the nature of the leadership of the command itself, that was indifferent to the lives of the men in that command. This point backs to who Custer was, a widow maker. It is also a commentary on who Godfrey was, who used the Custer Myth, to advance in command, in the decades after the LBH.

[@SiobhanFallon7]

Hey John! Thank you for watching and commenting! I am actually about to put up a video about the Washita this week. Please stay tuned. Do you have any instances of cavalry units attacking a Native American target and doing better reconnaissance? Or surrounding a village in a way that did not entail dividing a command into seperate columns to do so? I would love a few examples to compare. Seems like most of the successful (and not successful!) attacks occur when the fight is sudden and a surprise, before the target can flee, and that Custer's tactics are not very different from those used by everyone else when fighting Indians: Mills/Crook (Slim Buttes), Carr (Summit Spring), General Miles etc. I touch on this a little bit in my Powder River/Reyenolds/Wooden Leg presentation but would appreciate more examples. And as you point out, it was Elliott's natural aggressiveness that led him to peel off and form his own small movement with eighteen me. He was the second in command and did not alert his commander/Custer to what he was doing. I agree with you that there are haunting similarities about his death and the death of GAC (George Armstrong Custer), with Elliott and his men surely praying the cavalry would come to their rescue. And if Benteen felt like GAC abandoned Eliott, I can only wonder if he must have looked back and wondered if he, Benteen, abandoned GAC as well. Many differences too, of course. GAC was the commanding officer of the LBH campaign and left a final order to "Come On. Big Village. Bring Packs." As well as two living messengers who could point out where he and over two hundred men were-- thigs Elliott did not get the chance to do. Also, at the Washita, fortunately for the entire 7th, Quartermaster Lt. James Bell had been told by Custer when to arrive at the village and he came through with the additional ammunition, fighting his way through and making it to his fellows. No one did the same at the Little Bighorn.

[@kerrylangman214]

Indians at LBH thought Custer was with Reno's frontal attack on the village....instead he was with the secondary flank attack : Custer intending to thrust into the village and pursue the fleeing Indians himself ...instead of Reno diverting Indian strength for Custer : roles got reversed ...

[@thomasmassey322]

I wonder how Benteen, who seems to be a social politician, would not try and get along with his fellow officers. Is it slothfulness and not committing to the officer corp? It's puzzling. Reno is similar to Mead, to cautious to comit or not confident in his ability to make decisions and command.

[@SiobhanFallon7]

I think Benteen did get along with his fellows in social situations and only over time did they realize what he really thought of them. Thus soldiers (far down the military hierarchy and not with him all the time) idolized him, but his superiors and peers knew better?

[@michaellarson938]

That was very well done, the things you could have done better are all or mostly technical thing's like better integration of your sound bits when running the background music or sound effects. It really is the only thing that makes it slightly less well done as something on the history channel or something the like. Your reading or vocal presentation very much better than what one usually gets anywhere. It occurs to me that you should probably explain certain things about military life, especially since times have changed so much. But i will concede that it might bog things down. Now I read Gen. G. A. Custer's account of the washita, i tend to think he could have rescued Eliot and or some of his men, but it might have led the washita to become his last stand. Those are hard calls to make and any call can be a winner or a loser. So you just have to trust your commanding officer. I believe capt. Benteen probably looked for ways to make General Custer look bad and himself look better, that's probably because Captain Benteen was more of a , "this is how it's done at west point so it's the right way and i graduated higher in my class than you," sort of thing.

[@SiobhanFallon7]

Thanks for the suggestions, Michael. I have cut back on sound effects in later presentations as the music especially was being problematic, as you noticed. And I will work on transitions. I learn as I go and I really appreciate you telling me what's working and what's not so I can make these better. So good of you to watch and to comment! 💕

[@SiobhanFallon7]

Also good point about my needing to explain military life more. I will work that into future videos. Thanks again!

[@michaellarson938]

@@SiobhanFallon7 it was really good and they were excellent choices, music and affects. You just needed more practice at that particular aspect of the presentation. Don't forgo their use it dose add a lot.

[@SiobhanFallon7]

@@michaellarson938 will do!!

[@Gene-kl1br]

Benteen not only a coward but also a liar .

[@jono8884]

Try enhancing the photos and even colorizing them. There some easy free tools online. Benteen would have been fantastic to interview at great length.

[@SiobhanFallon7]

Good advice. I'll try. I'm not very tech savvy 😬 But I will give it a shot and I always love suggestions!

[@danielbradt6418]

FYI: Cavalry Units are called "Troops" not Company's

[@sartanawillpay7977]

They were officially "companies" until 1883 when they were renamed "troops."

[@danielbradt6418]

@@sartanawillpay7977 Maybe so but military personnel call them Troops "A company has anywhere from a few dozen to 200 soldiers. It’s a tactical-sized unit that can perform a battlefield function on its own. A company consists of three or four platoons and is generally commanded by a captain. It can also go by different names, depending on the function: Company-sized artillery units are called batteries, while in armor and air cavalry units, they are called troops."

[@reuterromain1054]

In some way, Custer saved Benteen`s life by sending him away in an area where no Indians could be found.

[@SiobhanFallon7]

You are absolutely right!

[@richarddavenport31]

I have been to the Washita battle site, it is really in a desolate area of Oklahoma

[@SiobhanFallon7]

I'd really like to get there. It makes such a difference seeing the actual geography. The first time I got out to the Little Bighorn I was so amazed by the sheer enormity of space-- all those rolling hills and bluffs and no radios etc. Incredible.

[@joeyscott5342]

I live there and don't find it desolate at all.

[@joeyscott5342]

If you ever come, let me know and I'll show you the artifacts I have from the battle.@@SiobhanFallon7

[@SiobhanFallon7]

@joeyscott5342 Oh my goodness, I would really love that. Thank you!!

[@SiobhanFallon7]

@joeyscott5342 Here are my Washita themed videos, Joey, if you want to check the accuracy. I value your knowing the terrain and the fight. Thanks again! kzbin.info/aero/PLHfg6vohewsz_5UUQNdUfwYvWa5jP_3Jn&si=p3782yCms3iUCGsF

[@Gene-kl1br]

Interesting Benteen had record # of desertion. But fingers pointing at Autie Custer .

[@jaynesager3049]

I have a question, and forgive me if you answered it and was I spacing out. Did Benteen ever say much negative about being Joel Elliot’s subordinate, or about Elliot in general?

[@SiobhanFallon7]

He makes the comment about Elliott being one of the officers who shot the deserters, but I didn't find anything explicitly negative about Elliott from what I have read.

[@jaynesager3049]

@@SiobhanFallon7 yes, Benteen really thought highly of Elliot, who had been under his command in the Civil War. I think Benteen wasn’t so much jealous of Custer, as I’ve heard people say. And he certainly doesn’t seem to be of the character to hold a grudge and let people die. After all, he went to Reno’s aid after their altercation. But can you imagine Benteen’s and Custer’s sixteen -year service in the 7th together as a a reality show? I wonder what they’d call it.

[@Eadbhard]

@@jaynesager3049 Benteen was under Major Elliott's command during the Civil War, but whether or not Benteen thought "highly of Elliott" is questionable. As a general thing, Captain Fred Benteen didn't care much for any officer who outranked him. Elliott and Custer, on the other hand, were definitely friends. Custer met Elliott when they were both performing Reconstruction duties in Texas after the Civil War ended; as a matter of fact, Custer would later play a significant role in getting Elliott a transfer into the 7th Cavalry. Captain Benteen did hold grudges - that was one of his biggest character flaws. If there was anyone who didn't hold grudges, it was Custer. Benteen despised Custer from the moment they first met; it wasn't the other way around. And what would be the reason for an instant dislike for someone if not jealousy? Custer was younger than Benteen; he outranked Benteen; he was Benteen's commander; he was more famous than Benteen, more flamboyant than the moon-faced Benteen, and he also had a better-looking wife than Benteen. At Reno's Court of Inquiry three years after the battle, when asked why he did not respond to Custer's orders with any kind of dispatch, Captain Benteen made excuse after excuse for not coming to his commander's aid. Putting all his sorry, contradictory excuses together, Benteen first claimed he believed Custer was "perfectly safe" and "he (Custer) could take care of himself", but he soon disclaimed that by saying he believed "Custer was already dead". Benteen also professed the "Indians were running away", but he later confuted himself by saying he believed the Indians "had defeated the regiment". For all of his alibis during that trial, Benteen never once suggested the most likely explanation for his nonfeasance: that in his petty, self-absorbed spite against his commanding officer, he seized the first available pretense to avoid helping him or the hundreds of men with him.

[@jaynesager3049]

@@Eadbhard Benteen was a brevet general in the Civil War, and outranked Joel Elliot at that time. At the end of the war, Benteen moved on, returning to civilian life as a farmer. Unfortunately, things went terribly wrong and he reenlisted, and was then under Elliot’s command. But by the accounts we have, they remained in good standing with one another. Before I continue, I’ll say that neither one of these men, Custer or Benteen, were pure saints, and perfect. Both were complex and had good characteristics, both had flaws, as all humans do. Custer was also guilty of bearing grudges. It has been well documented that he he was extremely loyal and generous to friends, but equally dismissive, even abusive to those whom he did not like. Benteen and others noted these behaviors. I won’t go into too many details, they are readily available. Elliot may have been a Custer favorite who fell out of favor, as did Major Reno. Elliot replaced Custer after his AWOL, and Reno was actively pushing for that spot. Benteen was never in the Custer Favorites. After the Washita and Custer’s no-show during the ill-fated Reno engagement at the village on the Little Bighorn, it’s small wonder that the the soldiers were openly pondering the it as Custer’s suspected treachery. But still, they hoped he had gone for help from General Terry. I’m just saying, given Custer’s well-noted attitudes and behaviors toward people he did not like, Benteen was not the only one who had reason to doubt Custer’s trustworthiness as a leader. Even so, at the battle itself, Benteen did go quickly when he got Custer’s first note to hurry. He was met with the scene of Reno and his “charge to the rear,” and met him to render assistance. No one knew where Custer was. The ammo pack wagon had just arrived at Reno Hill, and the second note delivered by Martini arrived. The command was to bring the pack wagons. Reno Hill is four miles away from CusterHill. Pack wagons at that time traveled two miles per hour under good circumstances. So, a two-hour drive. At best. Not to mention the fact Weir was driven back. Sometimes, the prudent choice is not the one that looks good for the press, especially when it favors the destitute widow trying to sell her books to pay her deceased husband’s debts.

[@Eadbhard]

@@jaynesager3049 Captain Benteen was not a brevet brigadier general during the Civil War. He was recommended for the brevet rank in 1865, but the recommendation was not accepted. This is but one of several erroneous statements that you spewed forth in your recent comment. What accounts do "we have" that state Captain Benteen and Major Elliott were in good standing? Do you have the sources? Why did you not include them in your comment? Why would you mention "we have accounts" and not list any of these accounts which would have lent some historical veracity to your opinion? Yes, of course, both Custer and Benteen had their flaws, as did General George Patton, General George Washington, Napoleon, General Douglas MacArthur, and a host of other military leaders. But the one area where Custer did exhibit good leadership was on the battlefield. He was not a very good leader in garrison, when there was no battle to be fought, but he was always in his element when there was fighting to be done. For all of his faults, George Armstrong Custer was a superb warrior and combat officer. Hell, the man was born with war ingrained in his DNA! Compared to the grudges harbored by Captain Frederick Benteen, any grudge Custer maintained was insubstantial. One example runs thus: on the eve of June 22nd, while en route to the valley of the Little Bighorn, the regiment bivouacked along the Rosebud and Custer summoned his officers for a meeting. According to Lieutenant Edward Godfrey, in that meeting "there was something akin to an appeal in his (Custer's) voice, a peaceable, conciliatory tone, as if he was making concessions, and pleading to his officers for their help and cooperation". This meeting held by Custer, neither by the words he used or the emotions he poured out, are in keeping with a man who retains a grudge. Keep in mind, Captain Benteen despised Custer from the first moment he met him at Fort Riley in 1866; he hated Custer immediately. Conversely, Custer did not take up an instant dislike for Benteen. Historian Robert Utley represents Captain Benteen as a man with "monumental vindictiveness and cancerous bitterness toward almost all his superiors and former officers". If disharmony in the 7th Cavalry began with anyone, it was with Captain Benteen, "a soft-faced bitter man". According to historian and biographer, T.J. Stiles, "Benteen's hostility toward Custer colored all of his later writings and conversations, making him the most untrustworthy of narrators". Stiles continues by writing: "Captain Frederick Benteen remains a divisive figure for biographers and historians. Given Benteen's investment in his hatred of Custer, his reliability as a source is dubious". One only needs to read Benteen's testimony of the battle (Reno's Court of Inquiry) to realize this. Once, some years before the Little Bighorn, at an old trader's establishment in the Dakota territory, Captain Benteen called Major Reno a "son of a bitch" and slapped him in the face. There is no record of Custer ever doing such a thing to a fellow officer; in truth, Custer seldom even swore. Western historian and professor, Edgar I. Stewart, has described Benteen's preeminent characteristic as "jealousy of and hostility to almost everybody and everything". That same description has never been prescribed to George Armstrong Custer. General E. A. Garlington, who was once a lieutenant in the 7th Cavalry, called Benteen "a proud and vain man who, when drinking, would not quit for days." During these drinking binges, "he would become abusive and insulting to those he disliked or disapproved of." Captain Benteen would eventually drink himself out of the Army. In 1886, while stationed at some remote post in Utah, Benteen was drunk on duty, and "conducted himself in a scandalous manner" using "obscene and profane language", while "taking his clothes off" and "exposing his person by urinating in front of several women", all the while "quarreling with citizens". As for Custer, not only did he not engage in such behaviors, he didn't even drink. When did Major Elliott "fall out of Custer's favor"? Do you have sources that tell of this? What are they? In 1867, Custer ordered some of his trusted officers, including Elliott, to track down and shoot some deserters who stole arms, equipment, rations and ammunition. Later, in the fall, when Custer was court-martialed, Elliott was one of the officers who testified in his defense. A year after that, Major Elliott was killed at the Washita. When, and how, did he "fall out of Custer's favor"? Provide genuine historical examples, please. Custer was not a "no-show" at Reno's fight in the Little Bighorn valley. Many of Reno's men (not Reno, of course) spotted Custer's men on the eastern bluffs overlooking the village. For some reason or another, Reno thought Custer would be supporting him from behind. Not seeing his commander anywhere, Reno took fright and became unnerved, automatically assuming Custer abandoned him. For all of that, Reno would later retract his thoughts by saying some words to the effect of, "when I did not see him, I surmised he was probably going to the opposite end of the village to support me from there". Realizing Major Reno had not attacked the village, and was now retreating from his defensive position in the timber, Custer ordered a demonstration at the Medicine Tail Ford in order to take pressure off of Reno's command; as such, some of Custer's troops engaged the northern flank of the village with gunfire. The demonstration worked too well. Once the warriors realized there were more Bluecoats to the north, they quit attacking Reno and concentrated all their efforts upon Custer's men. That being said, how does Custer's actions at the Medicine Tail Ford constitute as a "no-show" insofar as supporting Reno? Benteen did NOT "go quickly" after he received Custer's imperative, urgent order - that's an indisputable fact. "No one knew where Custer was"? If so, Custer's brother (Boston) found him easy enough. It was just a simple matter of following the tracks of Custer's column. What is more, Custer's messenger (John Martini) was with Captain Benteen's battalion at the time. If Benteen really wanted to know where Custer was, he could have just asked Martini, duh. The orders Benteen received from Trumpeter Martini did not arrive at the same time as the pack train, and Benteen certainly didn't receive the message on Reno Hill. That is ridiculous. Captain Benteen gave a number of excuses for not supporting Custer and hurrying up the packs (read his testimonies). If bringing up the mules was the problem, any other officer other than Benteen likely would have sent a detail with extra horses to the pack train. The detail could have transferred ammunition unto the extra horses, then traveled back to Benteen, who could have then rode to Custer's aid. The timely arrival of Benteen's battalion, even with just a few packs, would have been proper military protocol, but Fred Benteen just decided to ignore Custer's orders altogether. According to Sergeant Daniel Kanipe (the courier who was sent before Martini), Captain Tom Custer gave him the following message to deliver: "Go to Captain McDougall, tell him to bring the pack train straight across the creek. If any packs come loose, don't stop to fix them; cut them and come on quick. Big Indian camp! If you see Captain Benteen, tell him to come quick - big Indian camp!" This crucial communication not only exuded a great sense of urgency, it also stressed the need to be quick superseded the need to bring all of the packs. Sergeant Kanipe did meet Captain Benteen while he was en route to the pack train, and Benteen stated this in his narrative: "I met a sergeant coming back with instructions to the commanding officer of the pack trains to bring up the packs. I told him the pack train I thought was about 7 miles back and he could take the order back as I had nothing to do with that". Plainly...obviously, Captain Fred Benteen just didn't give a continental curse. Resentful of any demand or encumbrance, he declined to take any responsibility beyond his official sphere, despite the importance of Kanipe's message to Captain McDougal. Soon thereafter, when Benteen received Custer's exigent order from Trumpeter Martini, he reacted to it with the same indifference. While Custer and 220 of his men were fighting for their lives against 1500 - 2000 Sioux and Cheyenne warriors, four to five miles downriver a combination of Benteen's men, Reno's men, and Captain McDougal's men (roughly 400 troopers) sat impotently on Reno Hill. Even though most everyone else on the hill heard it, Benteen and Major Reno both denied hearing gunfire coming from Custer's last fight. Could they have saved Custer? No, yes, possibly? Napoleon once said, "When in contact with the enemy, bring all your men together. One battalion can sometimes save the day". No one can say for sure if Benteen and Reno could have saved Custer that day, but one thing is for certain - neither one of these officers really tried. Sources: Brady, Cyrus, "Indian Fights and Fighters" Godfrey, Edward S. "The Godfrey Diary" Connell, Evan S. "Son of the Morning Star" Stiles, T.J. "Custer's Trials" Steward, Edgar I. "Custer's Luck" Hardoff, Richard, "Washita Memories" Frost, Lawrence, "The Court-Martial of George Armstrong Custer" Utley, Robert, "Cavalier in Buckskin" Evans, David C. "Custer's Last Fight"

[@richardcutt727]

What a contentious, fractured, set of subordinate officers Custer took with him to the litttle Bighorn. Between disobeyed his orders and abandoned Custer at the LBH. How ironic.

[@SiobhanFallon7]

There does seem to be quite a lot of division within the ranks. But the more I read the more I see fissures in other units too, or random court martials and bickering and "benzine boards." My husband's Army is a pack of boy scouts in comparison-- THANK GOD 😉🤣

[@EndingSimple]

Strikes me that Benteen may have blamed Custer for the deaths of Elliot and his men because Benteen himself had not been able to go with them. Psychological projection.

[@SiobhanFallon7]

@EndingSimple that's an interesting theory. Do you think there is something similar going on with Benteen's processing of Little Bighorn too?

[@EndingSimple]

@@SiobhanFallon7 That's a possibility too. He'd been dumping on Custer long before Little Big Horn, and now that Custer had put him in the position of seeming to be responsible for his death Benteen probably felt a strong need to double down on that after LBH, though I imagine he had to work around the Custer worship that developed. There is another thing to consider. As evidenced during the Civil War, Benteen had a dysfunctional relationship with his father. There is work out there suggesting that people who have that tend to not get along with authority figures in their life. Most people tend to re-enact the relationship that they had with their father when they have authority figures above them in life. I'm willing to bet that that is what happened when Benteen first met Custer. The antagonism was practically immediate and continued on to the end. It would be interesting to know how Benteen related to other superior officers in his career. Wait, that gives me another thought. Other side of the father/son dysfunction is that when you meet an authority figure who gives you what you the nurturing your actual father did not, you are likely to develop an even stronger attachment than the one you had with your father. Benteen named a son after one of his commanding officers, and if I'm not mistaken, that was the commanding officer Custer criticized during his first meeting with Benteen. That would have made his repulsion to Custer doubly explosive.

[@SiobhanFallon7]

@EndingSimple You are right, Benteen seemed to always have a problem with the authority figures on his life. Great insight to connect that with his rocky relationship with his dad! I know I need to finish my Benteen series soon 😬

[@EndingSimple]

@@SiobhanFallon7 I looked over you youtubes to double check. Maj. Gen. James Harrison Wilson had been Benteen's commanding officer. Benteen had named his son after him, which is something a son usually does for his father. But Wilson had been a direct competitor to Custer in the Union army, and so Custer had this need to dump on him whenever he could. Benteen's first meeting with Custer apparently brought this to the surface and they were off to a rocky start with each other.

[@SiobhanFallon7]

@EndingSimple Benteen had some other early run-ins, and in the end, it was his criticism of Crook combined with his drinking that led to his later court martial. I'm away from my books but will try to get more specific info to you when I am back home from leave in a couple weeks! Please remind me !

[@Boomhower89]

👍🇺🇸

[@SiobhanFallon7]

Whoo hoooo!!!

[@billschofield4802]

Sheridan should be charged with crimes against humanity and have all his honours removed from history for his orders to kill the village of Black Kettles band flying the Stars and Bars😢

[@SiobhanFallon7]

Black Kettle's camp did not fly an American flag or a white flag at the Washita. Though, sadly, they supposedly did fly those flags at Sand Creek when Chivington attacked them there.

[@thanemathis5914]

Thank you! More insight into Benteen's vindictive personality. That he blamed Custer alone, for Elliot's own actions, demonstrates he went out of his way to disparage Custer's ability to lead from the beginning of their association. His bitterness at his own lack of recognition, him wanting to eliminate his CO so he could take over command, or that he was just an irrational mean man, are all possibilities. Given this, his actions at the LBH, after receiving John Martin's note, to "come on quick" will always be questioned.

[@SiobhanFallon7]

I do wish we had access to more of his non Seventh cavalry correspondence to see more about how he felt for other commanders etc. But I do think his dislike of Custer was instantaneous, or he arrived at Riley already expecting not to like Custer because of the existing rivalry between Custer and Wilson. Hard to know the full effect that this hatred or derision might have when it came to obeying Custer's orders ... 🤷‍♀️

[@SeanRCope]

Custer was in command. You do not just leave. But he did. Custer was terrible, he whipped and shaved the heads of soldiers. He shot deserters, refused medical attention to those who weren’t killed outright. Stole an ambulance and abandoned his command in the field because he was homesick. Courtmartialed and found guilty. He wanted his shine back, begged for his command and Little Bighorn was the result. Took five companies with him. How could Benteen be quick AND bring packs? Terrible order. Where was Custer, nobody knew. What was he doing nobody knew. Just ride north and see? Reno’s battalion was routed and had wounded and horseless men. Just leave them? Oh yeah you like the guy. No, no you don’t leave them and you don’t drag them into an unknown superior enemy in their backyard. Custer blew it he did not support Reno at all. Rode out beyond his lines of communication and supply, ooops. He was Cavalry and got stuck on a hill in open broken country. Sacrificing five companies for getting his shine back. I served with the Seventh in Korea. I can tell you Custer is a chump in that NCO Club and Benteen is a hero. The only place in the world to my mind that has the authority to have a legitimate opinion on Custer and the Seventh at the Little Bighorn.

[@SiobhanFallon7]

@@SeanRCope thanks for your insights, Sean. In terms of "where was Custer," his young civilian brother, Boston, rode back to the pack train, traded his played out horse for a fresh one, rode past Benteen's entire column, crossed paths with Martin and the final order from Custer, and was later found dead near Custer at Last Stand Hill. Custer had over two hundred men, recorded by almost all witnesses as not only to have heard gun shots but also volleys, which Godfrey says was a single to hurry. I have been to the LBH battlefield multiple times and it blows my mind how vast it is, and no one here is saying that fight was going to be easy for any contingent of US soldiers. But if you look at the Battle of the Washita you will see similarities. James Bell managed to arrive just in time with ammunition then and it probably saved the day. Of course not the same fight-- tighter pre-battle plans, smaller area of operations and village, but I'd be curious how you view it in comparison and how the 7th (for the most part) successfully surrounded the Washita village in that case. I imagine you have studied other Indian War fight and see ways you think the 7th Cavalry ought to have behaved different? I'd love to hear if there is a model fight that you think Custer ought to have followed. And as an NCO I am sure you have been given very difficult orders, but an order is by definition an order, you have probably given some that your men did not want to follow too, and you would know that questioning an order rather than choosing action and speed can have dire consequences. I know that Benteen was a hero in many situations, and I try to highlight some of them in my presentations about him. But I think all the officers failed in some way on this day, and it was the soldiers who paid with their lives.

[@SeanRCope]

@@SiobhanFallon7 one motivated young family member and a column of cavalry does not cover ground at the same pace, not to mention being ordered to bring packs which means a laden mules pace… it didn’t make sense. I feel once he reached Reno all bets were off. The Regiment must now stay together period. Reno got out of his predicament without “support” and supposedly he was drunk. He lost 30% of his command, but he got out, that’s an ugly win. They did an experiment firing near Custer hill/ battle ridge and it could not be heard from Reno hill. Irregardless Five miles is a hell of a long way dragging wounded men and escorting mules. It just wasn’t possible. To many unknowns. Like Benteen said “it’s a hell of a place to fight Indians”. At the end of the day Custer was a good cavalry officer even despite the critics everybody knew that, nobody thought he’d get stuck on a hill ever. If Reno could get out of a tight spot then Custer should too. At the washita like at the Little Bighorn he didn’t have good intelligence. He saw a small camp and attacked it. Leaving the field of battle and his second in command to the enemy when realizing his mistakes. Indian wars were nuts and nothing to be proud of.

[@SiobhanFallon7]

@@SeanRCope you make lots of good points, Sean. Reno's was an ugly win, and I think once Benteen got out to Weir Pt it was indeed not a good place to fight Indians. But to your point about not having good intelligence at either the Washita or the LBH, wasn't that in itself the nature of Indian fighting? You could never get the right intelligence on a foe that could pack up and disappear, as Custer learned during the Hancock Expedition. I think that failure at Pawnee Fork taught Custer that the only chance of a battle was to attack with speed. And he wasn't the only one. (Anson Mills would do the same at Slim Buttes and if he lost there he too would be ridiculed by hindsight, but he won and Crook came in with reinforcements). And Custer was right about the speed-- he certain brought the Indians to battle at LBH-- but of course it all very tragically fell apart on many levels. Great input and much appreciated, Siobhan

[@richardcutt727]

Between but "Between" is good at LBH. Ordered by Custer to come on. Ordered by Reno to stop. Betwixt and Between Benteen.

[@SiobhanFallon7]

Yes 😉🤣

[@patmckeane6588]

I always maintian Custer brought his own defeat Frd Benteen saved it from being so much worse

[@SiobhanFallon7]

I need to finish this series! Sorry, Pat, I am still working on Benteen!!

[@patmckeane6588]

@@SiobhanFallon7 Your doing great girl, i agree he is a very controversial officer but my own opinion a good one your stories are great and all this from a grumpy Scotsman

[@SiobhanFallon7]

@patmckeane6588 Thank you, grumpy Scotsman!! Benteen is one of the hooks that drew me deep into this story. He's grumpy, too 😉🤣🤣🤣

[@spacecatboy2962]

custer should have been put in prison for killing the horses

[@SiobhanFallon7]

Years later Reynolds wouldn't kill horses in his fight on the Powder River (March 17, 1876) and the Cheyenne would capture many of them back. Reynolds would be court martialed. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Powder_River

[@spacecatboy2962]

@@SiobhanFallon7 wow thats very interesting. Looks like he got in trouble for not using the indian coats and food when his men were hungry and freezing. When i think of how horrible these violent attacks on villages were, it is made even worse when you factor in that many of them were done when it was bitter freezing cold. Thats a very rough way for women and children to be woke up.

[@SiobhanFallon7]

@@spacecatboy2962 that fight is a really interesting one in that it also thrust the Cheyenne into closer unity with the Lakota. They were already aligned with Crazy Horse's Oglalla, but, now destitute, they sought out and then traveled with Sitting Bull's Hunkpapa too. Which of course paved the way to Custer coming upon a massive village on June 25. The more I read up on this time, the more I see how intricately connected everything was, from Native attacks on homesteads to Army attacks on a Native villages, until it culminated here at the Little Bighorn, which ultimately proved unlucky for both sides. Hard to separate one moment. And each fight, small or large, was tragic in so many ways. If you don't know it, I especially like Wooden Leg's account. It's wonderful and so detailed, and covers so much.

[@spacecatboy2962]

@@SiobhanFallon7 i will be reading wooden legs account later today for sure. It is interesting to look at the simple equation - the govment recruits some of the poorest people in the east, often immigrants and children of immigrants to join the army then travel 2000 miles to make war on the poorest people in the west, natives. Lets get these poor people and force them to force these other poor people to do what we want them to do. In the case of the black hills, get the gold.

[@justinacosta9973]

Benteen was a punk. He caused division in the command where there didn't need to be any. He seems jealous of Custer for some reason.

[@SiobhanFallon7]

He does seem to have an irrational hatred for Custer, and all of his reasons do not seem to explain the depth of that hate. I need to keep reseaching to dig up more!!! ;) Thanks so much for taking a look, Justin!

[@justinacosta9973]

Thank you for taking the time time to make these videos. I really enjoy them and will continue to watch any content that you put out. Cheers!