Retro RPG review 6: Castles and Crusades

Here I review, in detail, the Castles and Crusades Fantasy RPG. Highlights include a look at the game's connection to original Dungeons and Dragons, and an in depth
look at game mechanics.

[@patrickeh696]

In short, THIS is the game Gary Gygax said he would have chosen as AD&D 3rd Edition.

[@NoActuallyGo-KCUF-Yourself]

That's about as good of a selling point as I need.

[@luthersmithers6052]

He actually said he wanted it to become 2nd edition. Too bad they most likely abandoned what he wanted and ran with the d20 system.

[@angelmanfredy]

Just want to drop a line and say how much I appreciate your channel. Keep it up!

[@captcorajus]

Thank you! I really appreciate the kind words!

[@ripx187]

I've been binge watching this channel for a couple of days now, and am really enjoying it!

[@munderpool]

I started with the original 3 D&D books over the Thanksgiving weekend in 1974, and I find your historical series very nostalgic. Thank you! Upon your recommendation, I have ordered the C&C Player's Manual and Monsters & Treasure book. Cheers!

[@paulprecour3636]

Thanks for the C&C review, spot on! A review of the infamous Chivalry and Sorcery 'Red Book' and it's spiritual successor in Ars Magica would be welcome as well.

[@raknai]

That´s what I was talking about the classic D&D and Ad&D. They are two different game and we need the two kind. Some people want heavy rules, some prefer fast paced houserules and there are times that the guys who play heavy rules want a quick and fun game. My friends used to walk with dices and pens to just create a game in any place. We have most of the basic d&d rules in our heads and any problem we create some solution in the spot. You dont need to carry lots of heavy books and plan days to play rpgs. You just need your imagination. And a lot of people are missing that.

[@Deannatheos]

I agree completely sometimes light sometimes heavy the truth for me is ad&d 1e but I play all of them because I like the type of people that play d&d there a great bunch of people I love d&ders.

[@sunsin1592]

Finally decided to pull the trigger on C&C after re-watching this review and discovering they were having a huge sale at Troll Lord Games. Got all the core books and a couple modules at 65% discount. So I'm going to try it out and possibly pick up Kobold Games' Tome of Beasts to go with it. I like all the new fey creatures & devils in there. Since my own campaign world is essentially a mash-up of Celtic & Norse mythology & cultures, all these game supplements will plug right in. And I just got the old 1st edition AD&D "Against the Slavers" with the new intro adventure which I'll adapt as well for the mid levels.

[@captcorajus]

Did you see they have supplement 'Codex Celtarum'? Its a celtic supplement, you might like it. The Kobold press book looks interesting for sure. Let me know how it works out. I love the new printing of the PHB. Its just a gorgeous well put together book

[@mrgodliak]

I’ve watched this before when I was looking into C&C a couple years ago. It popped back up on my feed and I’ve come to say good video and this is now my game of choice.

[@krismorris1062]

Good stuff. C&C wasn't really on my radar until I saw this video.

[@MrSteveK1138]

C&C books purchased and being enjoyed because of your review! Amazing job as always!

[@captcorajus]

Oh wow, thanks!

[@TACNERD1]

Thanks a lot, this is exactly the review I was looking for. I was sketchy on this game at first but your review really sold me. Thanks for explaining the Siege engine also!

[@captcorajus]

+TAC NERD 1.0 Glad you liked it! C&C is a great game. Have fun!

[@MastertheGamerpg]

You should do a full video on the Castle Keepers Guide! You make this game sound very interesting.

[@robbabcock_]

Nice! I never got into C&C but knew about it. Kind of cool to see some details on it.

[@guapounggoy]

Currently playing an OSRIC game on roll20...I find it to be a lot of fun beyond being just a one off. They explain things in a much easier manner than the original versions that they are emulating. I also like 13th Age a lot--they do have a 'healing surge' type mechanic that they call 'rallying' that you may not like and a very cool mechanic called the 'escalation die' that I think most people will like. In the end it feels like 3.5 mixed with 4.0 and it's lots of fun.

[@stevenwintersnight1036]

I bought all the books because of this video! you sold me hard bub!!

[@captcorajus]

Well, I'd be interested in hearing how things go for you.. and hope you enjoy!

[@olschoolgamer1869]

Thanx for the review. I have been looking at C&C but wanted more info to make sure it had all the modem amenities with out the rules creep which permeates modern Dungeons and Dragons. I agree, modern RPG mechanics like the open ended role of the D20 system as well as other new ideas can and should be used to produce a good middle ground in fantasy RPGs with out all the crunch that seems designed to appeal to computer RPG gamers, especially MMOers. Computer are good at handling these calculations and reams of details. But it is easy to get bogged down when you are sitting around a table thinking more about the mobs than the story.

[@paulprecour3636]

Dragonsfoot.org has an amazing free PDF download of 'Abbernoth', a campaign setting for Castles and Crusades. A much deeper and complete setting (in my opinion) than the 'official' 'Winter's Dark' setting originally published. A grimdark celtic-influenced adventure campaign that had one supplement published for it. Worth a view.

[@DnDnBeer]

I had a Commodore 64. I remember playing Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy text based game. Do you remember the Zork series?

[@captcorajus]

Absolutely! I, II, and III on the commadore 64.

[@galinor7]

I bought 4th Ed D&D, I thought it was awful. I took it back to the shop and someone commended Castles and Crusades to me. I do play other games like Chaosium's "Magic World", but I really like C&C. It's the best D20 on the Market.

[@sargondp69]

Nice reviews mate. Would be nice to get hold of the C&C White box but none are currently showing for sale online. This game seems like the best p&p rpg available as d&d has taken the road of our culture, turning into a personality cult--charisma (how many bloody classes use charisma to cast spells now and only one uses intelligence). But the drawback to all of these is the same general medieval fantasy setting. Only a few games deviate from this: Heroquest Gloranthia I believe is a solid example, unless I am wrong in my very limited knowledge of that game. Time for a new Conan game at least, or I will just keep working on mine.

[@NoActuallyGo-KCUF-Yourself]

How's that Conan game coming?

[@longshot9060]

C&C has become the go-to and preferred game for this grognard!

[@mlfetlesjdrenbref1306]

Wow didn't know any of this... many thanks for the review and info.

[@thankukorea]

Awesome review.... I agree with everything you said... I played for 3 months and it was so nice to get back into RPGs after years of not playing except a short stint of 4e and pathfinder. I gotta get a few people back together again for C&C. Keep your eyes out there is a Book of Familiars coming out soon which looks awesome. Im getting it and not telling my players (when I get players ;) )

[@stephenclements6158]

That was helpful. At GaryCon 2019 last month, I got to sit in on a seminar by Stephen Chenault of TLG and two others, the topic of which was them talking about what it was like to work with Gary in his final years. It was really interesting to hear about the insane level of detail Gary was fixated on writing into all of his material at that point, his strange hatred for writing modules, and the sheer number of projects he was writing at a time. Stephen also talked about all the material that Gary nearly had completed, but after his death, Stephen was forced to destroy all the stuff he had in his possession. After the talk, I stopped by their booth and spoke with Stephen, his brother Davis who is the main designer of the system, and picked up the PH and an adventure pack to try out. I hope they are much better than their Free RPG Day module I had picked up previously, because it was riddled with inconsistencies, spelling errors, and sloppy editing.

[@captcorajus]

Yeah, I'd love to go to Gary Con. I had fully planned on doing that this year, but RL issues stepped in to prevent that. Their editing is much better now, especially since they are in their 7th printing, and the game is definitely riding the 5E wave, and more popular than ever, which is great.

[@stephenclements6158]

Dude, GaryCon was amazing. I've never been to a gaming con before, and not only do I feel like I had a ridiculously good time, regular con goers kept telling me how incredible that con was compared to others. If you choose to go next year, let me know! I'd love to meet and game with you.

[@jackcozad6345]

Thanks for the review! I have experience playing in 3.5e and Pathfinder but am finding them too crunchy any more. I had wished there was a clean, modern mechanics version with old school feel and I'm super happy to have found this review. Seems to be exactly the kind of game I'm looking for! Also, thanks for your note about having players add +6 for checks involving prime attributes and just having the challenge base always be 18. I'm sure that cuts down on a ton of the GM going, "hey whats the challenge base... what class is that player playing again? what are their prime attributes again??" Go even a step further and just tell your players to add +6 to the modifiers of Prime Attributes. Maybe that's what you meant but just in case. I don't understand why the system designers wouldn't just make that standard practice. But anyway again great video!

[@JdrD30]

I want this game! Thanks for the review

[@Jayce_Alexander]

I enjoy your videos. I've also spotted you on the Piazza =D I'd be really interested in hearing your thoughts on some of the old campaign settings. The Mystara video you did was very enjoyable. =]

[@sunsin1592]

You should review some of their newer releases, including the updated Monsters & Treasure. They've also got a new edition of the CKG & an omnibus spellbook supplement coming out later this year. Just decided to dive back into C&C after playing various retroclones the last couple years. I forgot how fast this plays once you get the hang of it.

[@bigpoppa32670]

This was an excellent review of C&C. Although I stop short of calling the original advanced dnd broken (it took a lot of us further than any broken thing I can think of) it was a mass of charts and figures that pretty much meant you needed charts in front of you at all times. Castles and Crusades has managed better than any other game to take what was good and marry it with a streamlined system. Although I think Pathfinder and even dnd 4e can be a lot of fun CnC has become my go to rpg.

[@maliyasjohnson]

I like this game a lot and thought you had a nice review.

[@LibraGamesUnlimited]

I think it would be kind of funny if someone did one of these old style role playing games and actually named it "Mazes and Monsters" just for the hell of it. :)

[@NoActuallyGo-KCUF-Yourself]

I am really tempted...

[@LibraGamesUnlimited]

@@NoActuallyGo-KCUF-Yourself It would be cool. Assuming there are no legal issues.

[@laurentrondeau3431]

Thanks for this, you've got yourself a new subscriber!

[@daddystabz]

Please have a look at/review Tunnels & Trolls, my fave retro game (Dungeon Crawl Classics), Pendragon.

[@LukeMasouras]

I know that this is an older review, but what are your thoughts on C&C compared to D&D 5th?

[@captcorajus]

There are some stunning similarities between 5E and C&C. Saving throws for example are based on ability scores. C&C still keeps things in the realm of low powered fantasy, while 5E is more high powered. If you prefer a more traditional approach, C&C is the way to go. 5E offers some great class options and quite frankly I really do like the action economy in 5E. It allows for certain things to actually work in a useful way. The shield spell comes to mind. So it really depends on your personal tastes. C&C is a nice amalgam between the OSR and modern rpgs.

[@LukeMasouras]

@@captcorajus Thank you for your feedback and curse you. I now have to get at least the C&C Players Handbook. I am sure that will lead to the rest of the books as well.

[@captcorajus]

@@LukeMasouras Not to rub salt in the wound, but did you see my review of the Castle Keeper's guide? That book is amazing, even if you don' t ever play C&C.

[@LukeMasouras]

@@captcorajus I did not see it but did you not mention it in this video. I will take look. You are not rubbing salt in a wound you are lightening my wallet!

[@captcorajus]

@@LukeMasouras I made the CK Guide video about a year after this one. kzbin.info/www/bejne/goDWinaCiaxlfpI

[@tabletopgamingwithwolfphototec]

💕 Wonderful .

[@jdmcdonnell71]

This is an excellent manifesto! :-)

[@TheMercianDragonTamer]

sold! seem to be hard to get hold of in the UK though.

[@Iris-qf7yu]

I believe our distributer ships there now!

[@marcuslopes3806]

Hey. Love your channel. What do you think about the White Box retroclone?

[@TimBaker]

You mentioned that Castles & Crusades monsters can easily be converted from both AD&D and from 3rd Edition. Would it be possible for you to provide an example? Based on my limited experience with 3rd Edition, its monster blocks appear significantly different from AD&D. I'd love to see what's involved. Thanks.

[@captcorajus]

That's a bit hard to quantify. It really depends on the DM. 1e is relatively straight forward... HD = HD. Damage type is the same. You will generally invert the armor class. i.e. AC2 = AC 18, and then you will assign a save type... for example, a 1e monster that saves as a fighter will have a P type (physical) save. If it saves as a magic-user you would give it an M (mental) type save. 3e is a bit more complex, as it involves eliminating some things... like feats, skills, and ability scores. The AC, Hit Die, etc, will be a straight conversion... assign save type as above based on the best save for the creature. for example, if the best save is fortitude or dex, it will have a P type save in C&C, or if Will is the best save, then give it an M type save. Its so easy that you could probably do it on the fly. :)

[@TimBaker]

That interesting. Thank you for taking the time to share. Do you have any experience with scaling? Do 1e and 3e numbers scale at roughly the same pace, and does that match C&C? You mentioned P and M type saves in C&C, but at 14:42 of your post, you show a chart that lists saves that align with the attributes. I apologize if this is a really basic question, but could you explain how the save types you mention above relate to those in your video? Thanks!

[@captcorajus]

the chart I showed was for player characters. Monsters are done a bit differently. If the monster has a P(Physical) in the description then consider str, dex, and con the prime attributes for the monster, if it has an M (Mental) then consider int, wis, and chr the prime attributes. Its also possible that a monster could have both, or neither. In any event, a monster also adds its hit die to the monster.... and there is a bit of an issue with scaling, so a DM has to use some judgement here... especially with the old school modules. Saves for PCs are not a foregone conclusion like they use to be in 1e, as a monster's HD gets added to the challenge class of the save. so, a 14 HD monster would make the save 18 + 14 or 32 or better! Still a challenge for a high level character! Its just something to keep in mind, when using old school monsters. You might lower the HD in some cases. 3e scaling is a bit better, but you have to consider feats and skills. I tend to look at other creatures in the C&C books, and see how they are done to get an idea how to covert a creature from one of the 1e or 3e books that's not already converted. Hope that helps.

[@TimBaker]

Yeah, that definitely helps. Thanks again. The P and M defenses sounds similar to Mental Defense and Physical Defense in 13th Age. Out of curiosity, have you played/run 13th Age before? I've heard that there are some similarities between 13th Age's Archmage Engine and C&C's Siege Engine--curious to get your take on that, if you have exposure to both systems.

[@captcorajus]

Hmm, no I haven't, but I'll check it out.

[@Johannes00]

Total price for all additional content which adds something new, like races or spells, variant rules, etc (to make it more rule heavy) costs about 400~ dollars. This does not include adventures, maps, monsters, or other lore of that kind. Just stuff that makes character creation, leveling, combat (the game system) deeper.

[@Mnnvint]

This seems like a very promising retroclone, but is it out of print again??

[@captcorajus]

Nope. Its fully in print! Go here: www.trolllord.com/

[@GenX-RadRat]

Great RPG; I offer it in my comic shop.

[@stevebruns1833]

I know this is an old review, and I'm a little late to the party but I'd be interested in knowing if your opinion has changed in the face of 5th edition and/or you've Incorporated any 5th edition mechanics like advantage/disadvantage or inspiration?

[@captcorajus]

Well, for the last several years I've been running 5E. I was at the point where I wanted to return to C&C, but then I discovered AS&SH, so I'm going to that for my next campaign.

[@captainxray]

New subscriber! Great review sir

[@captcorajus]

Thank you! Welcome!

[@garouwolf8034]

you just sold me on it, THX, I really like your vids. 2ed AD&D is my favorite though (I know you hate it, and I agree that ed must be played with house rules), but I can play all editions (except 4th, sry). Great videos!

[@Deannatheos]

I agree rules light this game sounds good.

[@BeyondApathy]

I think descending AC and THAC0 is fine seeing as mathematically there is no difference between that approach and ascending AC and BAB (or whatever you want to call it). It's one of those things about old school D&D that I think are not mechanically poor for a game (unlike NWP, which I'll be house ruling to simulate 3E skills for my 2E game.) Great video though! I've been thinking about getting into C&C for some time now, and after watching this I want to do it even more :) Oh and it's Tomb of Horrors, not Tome of Horrors :) Tome is the insanely large monster manual from Necromancer Games/Frog God Games.

[@captcorajus]

Yeah, I know it tomb, not tome, but when recording for videos, my speech sometimes gets twisted. lol. Here's the thing about old school AC. Its counter intuitive. i.e. LOWER is better, and HIGHER is worse. In general, we think of higher numbers as being better.. and indeed, most other mechanics of D&D itself require you to have a higher number, or to roll higher. Using the "high AC" is better mechanic is not only more intuitive, it also allows you to save steps... no need for a combat chart or to calculate thAC0. The AC is the 'to hit' number, and that's the basis for my criticism. :)

[@BeyondApathy]

captcorajus I agree ascending is more intuitive, I'm not advocating against it. But to me it doesn't matter, it hinders me in no way.

[@apilgrim8715]

C&C looks like a good game, but the startup costs to get physical books looks too high for me. Part of the reason we all played AD&D was that the books were only $12 each. The modern books for most systems run $30-50 each.

[@captcorajus]

+Aaron Pilgrim Sorry, but I simply can agree with this post. When 1E was new the books were $12 and $15 for the DMs guide, which back in the 70s was very expensive.. so you're comparing used book prices with new book prices. I just checked on Amazon, and you can get the PHB used and in good condition for $20, and the Monsters and Treasure book for $24.

[@Susrek]

D&D in the 80s was approachable by a kids allowance. Now a solid annual salary still may not be enough to rationalize RPG costs.

[@Iris-qf7yu]

We now offer PDFs of many of the books! We print in house and are a small business, so it's impossible for us to lower the prices. However, the quality you get should make up for it!

[@BrianScottGameNight]

I was a big supporter but they seem to just release stuff in color thinking that's going to improve sales and when they do put something out like Tome of the Unclean they don't finish is and leave you without any answers. Done with them.

[@rhettr4923]

I don't know if this will reach you but could you do Tunnels & Trolls some time I figure there is a interesting story there.

[@captcorajus]

That's a good idea.

[@Curratum]

I was very keen about this system but I was eventually put off by the cost of the combined books needed to run this properly. Eventually I went with Dungeonslayers 4.0 - a German system that is also part of the so-called OSR revival and is sadly relatively unknown to western players, even though the 4.0 version is translated in English and sold as a physical copy too. The sweetness of DS 4 is that it has all you need to play in a single tome that costs 20 bucks, which is a very big plus for me.

[@dachda]

+Curratum All you need to play C&C is the Player's Handbook and the Monsters & Treasure book. Full price is $29.95 for each in the latest printing. Though amazon has the books used for much less. Also, Troll Lord Games has several sales per year, and often they will price the books as low as $10 each during a sale. Compare that to D&D 5e requiring three books at $49.95 each. C&C is a bargain depending upon what you are comparing it to.

[@dreamakuma]

+C Dawson I ended up getting an older printing of both the players handbook and the monsters and treasure just to try it out. I ended up spending $20 for them both including shipping on amazon. I'm pretty happy with the lot and intend on buying the newest printing soon.

[@dachda]

+dreamakuma Good price. Hope you enjoy the game!

[@Iris-qf7yu]

We now have PDFs for many books at lower prices! Also, the only book you REALLY need to get started is the Players Handbook!

[@dougputhoff]

0:24--Why do I think that photo has been Photoshopped?

[@Raycheetah]

Nonsense. Photshop didn't exist in the Sixties. =^[.]~=

[@wyrdness1]

I will have to disagree with you on THAC0 being counter-intuitive. If you think of it as 1st class armour, 1nd class armour, etc... it is quite intuitive, and ascending armour 'classes' are what is counter intuitive.

[@captcorajus]

Thanks for the share!! The fact that you actually have to rephrase it to explain it shows the counter intuitive nature of the mechanic. If it was 'intuitive' you wouldn't have to do that. Intuitively.... higher is better. 6 beats 5. 10 beats 4. Makes total sense. No rephrasing needed to explain it. People will get that... Intuitively. AC in second edition... lower is better. First counter intuitive logic issue. Second.... The formula is thAC0 - Target AC = number needed to hit. The target's AC is -1. So I have to subtract -1, which mean I have to actually add it. That's not counter intuitive? That's the very definition of counter intuitive. Or... you could just say. add your modifier to the die roll. I find it startling that someone would even attempt to argue that the former is just as complex, or less than, the latter. That said, for gamers, its not that big a deal... introducing thAC0 to non gamers can be a trauma. lol.

[@wyrdness1]

captcorajus Why does the player even have to know the AC of the monster? Just add their STR or DEX modifier to their roll, subtract from their THAC0 and that's the AC they hit - or higher.

[@captcorajus]

wyrdness1 How about they just add their str or dex mod to their roll and I tell them if they hit? no additional step. See what I'm saying?

[@gamervideos11]

was wondering if you have heard that the C&C PHB is getting a 6th edition? Is this true or internet rumor?

[@captcorajus]

Its a 6th PRINTING, not Edition. C&C has had some MINOR rule revisions over the years, but nothing major. A new printing means updated cover art, and fixing of errata. They are also going to update the Monster and Treasure book as well as the Castle Keeper's guide. The changes are fundamentally cosmetic, and will be completely compatible with earlier printings.

[@gamervideos11]

Cool. :) when will the books be out for general purchase?

[@captcorajus]

gamervideos11 you can get all the info on C&C and release dates here! www.trolllord.com/

[@gamervideos11]

Thanks!

[@ostrichking6]

What are your opinions on Swords and Wizardry?

[@captcorajus]

Swords and Wizardry is a fine retro clone, and for a basic intro into RPGs, its certainly functional. But here's my thing with all retro clones of this type... and I stated this in my video... its like going back and using a commodore 64 computer. It might be fun to revisit some of the games, and applications, but how can you ignore 30 years of computer innovation? The same holds true for RPGs. For example, if you look at thief skills in S&W, you have not only percentiles for resolution, but also a d6 for the 'hear sounds' ability. To me, that's incongruous. Isn't it much simpler to have a single core mechanic to govern all such game functions? Or, Armor class.. why go BACK to using a chart, when we know that simply making the AC the target number to hit is far easier? A single number for saving throws? Hmmm, i do not care for that at all, as it fails to take into account the character's abilities. Lastly, there are only four classes. That's really pretty limiting. Ultimately, that's gong to greatly limit its appeal. Is it a good game? Well, yeah.. its basic D&D, which is a great game, but, there are other offerings out there that do the same thing, and offer more flexibility. But hey... its also free... but for the time and money, C&C is still the best retro game out there in my opinion.

[@ostrichking6]

I totally agree (despite my lack of experience) From what I know, what makes a good RPG game is more power to the DM, and eliminating all necessary rules. Not to ask to many questions, but I play D&D 3.5 with my older sister, I usually DM too. sometimes I manage to get a group together, but mostly it's just me and her, And considering I don't have a lot of money, and I'm going solo most of the time, do you think it would be a good Idea to play C&C or something like S&W?

[@captcorajus]

That's totally up to you. Really.. the rules are inconsequential to the fun. If all you want to do is get together on occasion and hack at some monsters and explore some dungeons with friends than S&W ought to work just fine for you. Though, I would say for a long term, continuing campaign, would be more suited to C&C for the reasons mentioned about.

[@Onemurillo]

ComicBook Guy if you are low on money, the dungeons and dragons basic rules for 5e came out free this month. They're really rules light.

[@leftoverjedi1]

Juan Manuel Murillo If you haven't already, check out Basic Fantasy Role-Playing Game. All of the rules and modules are available for free, and you can get all of their print material (As of right now, five books) for under twenty dollars from Amazon. :D

[@garchie5150]

Well read sir!

[@patrickeh696]

You got it wrong. The Castle Keepers Guide is the successor to the Unearthed Arcana as it isn't where the primary DM rules lie. Those are found in the C&C Monsters book

[@captcorajus]

If you say so. :)

[@JulianSloman]

Wow this sounds more like an advertising than a review, but maybe it's just that good :D

[@captcorajus]

I can absolutely assure you that I've received no compensation of any kind from the Troll Lords. They haven't even sent me a splat book... unfortunately. And yes, its that good! :)

[@lastsonofkrypton3918]

I found a great deal on a fifth printing C&C Player's Handbook... would it work well using my 1st ed. DMG & Monster Manual with it?

[@captcorajus]

Absolutely.

[@lastsonofkrypton3918]

Thanks bro. I'm gonna spring for that sweet 7th printing Player's book and see how that baby drives :)

[@captcorajus]

I've got like 5 of them, and one of the special printings. lol. going to be giving them away on the channel here shortly. :)

[@luthersmithers6052]

6:23 "Due to its forward and backwards compatibility to both 1st edition..." Really?

[@captcorajus]

Yup really. C&C is essentially 3E with no skills, or feats, with classes rewritten to emulate 1st edition classes vs 3rd edition. That's not to say you won't need to tweek things a bit, but the core stats, AC, Hit points basic attacks will translate.

[@luthersmithers6052]

@@captcorajus You'd have to use a lot of stuff from the 1e books, though. AC, class arrangement, etc.

[@WildDieWoodard]

Awful that we haven't seen the Zagyg stuff re-released yet.

[@captcorajus]

+Ogma01 I'm very sorry to say that it is unlikely you ever will. After Gary's death, his estate pulled the licensing from the Troll Lords.

[@weprintplastic]

That is a shame... but that is the truth.... with the loss of Gary, that was end of the Zagyg material. Still I find all of Troll Lord's books to be a spiritual successor of what Gary really wanted D&D to become again... it was grass roots, personal, and not rules laborious. D&D spun out of Gary's control going into the 80's and crashed hard. I think it very much brought him back down to earth after losing his beloved TSR. He just wanted to get back to making material people loved, and not be caught up in some unwieldy corporate machine. In that respect, Gary and Troll Lords was just what so many of us old school gamers really wanted. We missed that feeling from the first time we played D&D, but it was the right time for some polishing. Troll Lord's continues to do a wonderful job with Castles & Crusades and keeping Gary's amazing gift to us alive and well with every roll a twenty sided dice.

[@boobio1]

Will Wheaton is not a good spokesperson for Casles and Crusades.

[@captcorajus]

I think he's awesome.

[@ericaj9822]

It's just too bad the editing leaves a bit to be desired, and the lack of an index is a pain. The game itself is great fun, though.

[@captcorajus]

A lot of that has been addressed in later reprints!!

[@ericaj9822]

@@captcorajus True, which is I want to back the Kickstarters for the new reprints of the PHB and CKG. My current campaign started with C&C but since moved onto Pathfinder because my players wanted to play some of PF's more obscure classes. I'm now looking into ways of incorporating Bloodragers and Spiritualists into C&C, because PF sessions have started becoming a slog (although not nearly as bad as character creation, which is a nightmare). I just love how fast and loose Castles & Crusades is, and how the rules don't get in the way of having a good time.

[@zaciroth]

You should do a pathfinder review.

[@captcorajus]

I'm working on it now, and it should be out soon... its going to be 2 or 3 parts.

[@TexasFriedCriminal]

Let me state in regards to bloat and power creep happening when a game system grows too complex, that it is not a matter of the game systems but the much more powerful force of capitalism. A game company, after all, must make profits, thus make products that feel required and it is thus that games inevitably bloat while they stay in print until, equally inevitably, a new edition clears away all the debris that game maker's industriousness has produced and the circle starts anew.

[@meatbyproducts]

Eww Will Wheaton likes it!

[@deathmetal926]

Yeah, that dude has lost his mind. But C&C is a great game either way.

[@nooctip]

Seriously? Thaco is your example of a bad rule? The better armor you have the opponent has to role better against the negative . Not complecatied. Other than one bad example good review.

[@captcorajus]

Its a terrible rule. "The better'... i.e. 'higher' armor ratings decrease as they improve. That requires you to ADD when you subtract, and to subtract when you should add. That's inverse thinking, counter intuitive, and poor game design. how 'easy' it is or isn't, is inconsequential.From a design perspective the game shouldn't be asking you to do that to begin with. I love AD&D, but the inverse AC, in retrospect was/ is a poor game mechanic.

[@luthersmithers6052]

So the class system is still chewed up, the armor class system hasn't been returned to the correct orientation, saving throws are tossed away and simple ability checks are replaced by yet another system that bogs down game-flow. This is supposed to be considered an old-school game? Yeah, I don't think so. Any game using the d20 system is not an old-school game. Putting perfume and make-up on a pig doesn't make it a super model.

[@captcorajus]

Its an AWESOME old school game with some modern mechanics mingled in. The AC system is fine using a more modern Ascending system, the saving throw system works great, and the siege engine is brilliant, plays fast and is amazingly flexible. Usable in just about any situation in place of a massive skill system! LOVE C&C But thanks for commenting!

[@luthersmithers6052]

@@captcorajus No problem. However, the d20 system isn't anything resembling old-school, like 3rd edition and beyond isn't anything resembling D&D. At the end of the day, it's d20 Fantasy. I'm sure C&C is fun for those who want that old-school feel with the WotC spin...but don't kid yourself. New game, same crap.

[@captcorajus]

@@luthersmithers6052 Blanket statements don't make it so. C&C uses a blending of the best aspects of the D20 system and mingles it with the best aspects of 1st edition D&D. The 'WOTC spin' in this particular case is a feature not bug, sorry. I doubt very seriously there's much support of a claim that d20 is 'all bad', just like 1E and 2E is 'all good'. I'll make no claim that C&C is 'perfect' either, but its a good, solid game. So yes, for those who might be coming from 5th edition, who are looking for some familiarity but with a more old school take on game play C&C is a great option. :) For Old School players trying to 'bring newer players into the fold' so to speak, C&C is also great!

[@luthersmithers6052]

@@captcorajus First: I have no problem with someone enjoying the game they play. If you don't like what I say or my opinions, that's okay by me - that's one of the great things our country is about. Second: I've seen a few things about C&C in video reviews and some of the things I like. Now that that's outta the way... d20 itself I have no problem with. But let's face facts, d20 is not an old-school system and IMHO doesn't fit well for fantasy games. As far as the TSR or WotC versions being perfect, well that would be impossible (so we agree here). I don't feel that every game has to have the same system (that would be boring and nobody would want to play); but to say it's an old-school game using the same system as 3.5-5e and d20 Modern, because you add a little flavor from 1982, isn't only disingenuous but just plain silly. Every "old school" RPG that has come out is nothing more than a copy of of the others with a few changes.

[@captcorajus]

@@luthersmithers6052 The difference in opinion we have here in regard to 'old school' relates to system versus style of play. I never said C&C is an old school system, only that it takes elements of 1st edition. What I did say, is that it replicates the 'old school style. That is, its an exploration game, there encumbrance, and its very open ended, hallmarks of old school style play. That is all. :)

[@scpalmer138]

Good review, but you swap/interchange the use of the term ability and attribute. Some people could be confused if they are familiar with other systems.

[@raknai]

I agree so much. those "modern" crunch rukes RPGs are too restrictive I really believe that if those games were like that in the time we Grognards got our magentas and red boxes, we would never become RPG players. With my ten to eleven years need to read three books with more than 300 pages to play. No sir, I would never become a player. The worst part is with those huge books is almost impossible to learn by yourself like I did with my first D&D

[@protonneutron9046]

C&C is NOT "retro" in the sense of game mechanics. So much not the case that D&D 5th Edition designers ripped off cope mechanics from C&C when they designed it.

[@captcorajus]

I fail to see how C&C is 'not retro'. I think I was pretty clear in explaining that it is an amalgam of modern and retro ideas. Ascending AC, and d20 aesthetics aside, a look at the spells, and other periphery mechanics mimic 1st and 2nd edition D&D, giving it an old school feel. C&C if for those folks who like a consistent core mechanics, but prefer a retro style of play. And yea, 5E's saving throw system is nearly identical to C&C's.

[@protonneutron9046]

@@captcorajus What is specifically "retro" about C&C compared with 3.x without using generalities?

[@captcorajus]

If you didn't get that from watching the video, I have nothing more to add.

[@protonneutron9046]

@@captcorajus Thanks for being clear as mud. 😅

[@m.a.packer5450]

I'd rather play AD&D for a nostalgia trip, and I can find plenty of players who still play. Castles and Crusades is like an unnecessary and bland set of house rules that replace many iconic aspects of the system with their own flimsy substitutions. If you want a "simplified" D&D experience, just play fifth edition, it does a much better job with fast and fun mechanics and makes a sufficient return to the more traditional feel of AD&D. (While 4th edition had its own problems, complexity was far from them)

[@captcorajus]

Pretty much every thing you've just typed is wrong.

[@freddaniel5099]

If you are taking a survey, I agree with M.A. Packer. Your opinion may differ, but that does not make ours wrong and yours correct. It's an opinion after all.

[@robocoastie]

Poor assessment of 4e.

[@captcorajus]

In what respect please eleborate?

[@gipsyjam]

I agree. I can never remember the to hits (let alone the right dice for weapons haha) on the old AD+D tables. However I switched to 5th addition for a while and found it too "cumbersome" as you say. What's an old fool to do? I guess it's first addition still and I will have to just go on the rule of thumb: to hit AC0 as the go to?