RPG Retro Review: OSR Super Heroes - Villains & Vigilantes

[@PeterJRaia]

Lovin' it!! My friends & I started playing it in our senior year of high school, created characters as per the authors' suggestion essentially ourselves jumped-up with super abilities. Though we've occasionally converted ourselves to other systems just to "test drive" them, but inexorably come "home"...and we've been doing so for over 30 years now! Here's to the NEXT three decades!

[@FedralBI]

My friends and I played V&V for years. Two separate groups of friends, two separate teams. Once an epic crossover where both groups played together to fight an alien invasion. Thanks so much for this flashback. The truly amazing adventures of the Hunters (Black Bolt, Behemoth, Nova, Scanner, Puma, and Ratchet) and the White Knights (Fate, Titan, Raven, and Hustler) will never be forgotten by me and my friends.

[@captcorajus]

Oh, man, that sounds epic! Thanks for sharing!

[@perryellis1423]

I played villains and vigilantes as a kid back in the 80's loved it

[@ironnerd8898]

I enjoyed your review of my favorite RPG. I actually worked for FGU as a freelance writer for a while on some of the Adventures and Sourcebooks that came out more recently. I can say that everyone who worked on V&V for FGU put a lot of effort into the products to make them worth more than players paid for them. I'm sure the guys at MHG do as well, but I can only speak for myself and the small group i was privileged to work with. As a kid and adult, I really enjoyed V&V. I have always maintained that what was in the rules was excellent (almost perfect). I'll also concede that it is missing about 30 pages worth of material that many creators attempted to address in their adventures. It's a really great old game, and I wish things had fallen out differently. Thank-you very much for giving it some well-deserved recognition.

[@captcorajus]

V&V is my go to Superhero RPG. I've tried some new ones, but none of them hit the mark for me the way V&V does. I even introduced it to my kids and they loved it! Sometimes 'what's missing' is part of a game's charm. It gives the players and GM something to add their own unique signature to their game.

[@ironnerd8898]

@@captcorajus If you liked the Centerville Adventures, or the Japanese characters, that was my work. If not..it was some other guy.

[@Znobishtucon]

I totally love seeing all this artwork! You really lovingly pulled those images apart, and seeing them in panels and such is a joy. Thank you!

[@DM_Bluddworth]

I liked V&V better than Champions. If I recall, it captured playing with super powers much better. I actually liked the math in V&V, and as a young teen in the early 80’s, that was no small feet.

[@captcorajus]

I liked the math because it 'worked out'. Really, I consider V&V a very clean system. The 2.1 Rules upgrade introduces 'saving throws', which are a vast improvement over the 2.0 version, which I forgot to mention in the video.

[@pccleric]

Feat vs feet

[@gajukes]

I love that you covered V&V I cannot name how many campaigns I've played with this game, switching up how your want your D20s to roll helped make this game a great counterbalance to all of the D&D games I've Dmed since the early 80's 2nd edition V&V is the best superhero rpg I've ever played. Hopefully your video introduces it to some new gamers.

[@erikmartin4996]

So many great memories of this game

[@johnharvath7835]

No way CAP!! I totaly forgot about V&V. I'm glad we have you around!

[@olschoolgamer1869]

Thanx for the review! V&V and TSR Top Secret were the games we played the most with my friends that were not interested in D&D.

[@captcorajus]

Oh, yeah, loved me some top secret!!

[@udasu]

Thanks so much for doing V&V, Cap! My rpg guild in college had a lot of fun playing this one! Super - easy to play if you already know D&D. That Jeff Dee artwork is the best!

[@swirvinbirds1971]

The Capt. always gets a like from me before I even watch the videos... Thanks Capt!

[@gregbanks5624]

Second

[@0ldSch00l13]

The best supers campaign I ever ran was V&V. The rules were at times clunky, and the attack/defense table was a mess, but that game really new how to bring out the fun in superhero gaming.

[@gkarenko9593]

We played this back in the day. Unfortunately, the one memory that really stands out was when we were in the middle of combat and realized that one of the heroes could NEVER hurt his intended nemesis. We did the math on the best possible results, and even that would never be good enough. Ouch! That was a relationship that didn't last.

[@Henrikdead]

This is THE best channel on RPG! Ever thing about is spot on from the music to the host voice tone and speed. So much better than others keep it up and many thanks

[@gregbanks5624]

YES! I lost my phone and finally got a new one and got my KZbin back up and what do I find? One of my favorites RPGs on your channel. I've wanted you to do this since I started watching you. I loved V&V and have backed Jack and Jeff through their legal battle and into their Mighty Protectors KS. PLEASE review it next, or eventually!!!!

[@mr.sluggo7525]

Thank you Captain for this review. My friends and I played this game many times. I still have the rules and a bunch of modules. It may be time to break them out and give them another look.

[@pelmen1294]

Nice . I was only able to get the boxed set here. but its good to see that others had this as well.

[@michaelstevens2690]

I remember buying V&V back in high school and trying the game out with my friends - for a change from all the D&D games we played - we had a great time making the characters and playing through the premade adventures. I still have the book. I was very pleasantly surprised to find out here that all that stuff is still available online. Thank you for this video. I am seriously thinking about running an adventure of V&V again.

[@dominickdigregorio7436]

I loved this review--not just because it fits with my opinion of V&V, but because you clearly outline what makes it a solid game, and your enthusiasm really comes through.

[@mlfetlesjdrenbref1306]

WOW! Didn't know about this one. We used to play the Revised editon of TSR's Marvel Super Hero, but V&V seems awesome. I wish they had this one at our local hobby shop back in the day. Thanks for all the info here. Great video!

[@captcorajus]

Thanks Max. Always great hearing from you. V&V is really a lost gem IMHO. Easy to get a hold of now, and inexpensive, you'd probably get a kick out of it. :D

[@mlfetlesjdrenbref1306]

@@captcorajus I'll will probably get to it eventually; Ever since finding RPG RR I've started a AD&D 1E and Basic Fantasy campaign, V&V will probably be #3. :)

[@KhorneliusPraxxGames]

This is and excellent review. I am preparing to start not only trying to play again but also was hoping to do a series of short videos about the system also. I just wanted to see what other videos are out there and this was the first one I saw. Top Notch!

[@MARRRRC0P0L0]

Yup, here's another one that I played, and wish that I still had.

[@cheneymoss3432]

Great video, I was a long tie V&V player back in the 80s! This was an amazing game and I have dozens and dozens of heroes and villains my friends and I made and played for the game. We did everything from our on version of the Justice League/Avenger to a future set game for a clone of the Legion of Superheroes. I would say the only thing the game was missing was a decent skill system, but that could be easily added to the old rules without too much issue.

[@Dracopol]

Marionette: a little person who can control minds. Now where would they get the idea for -- oh, yeah, The Mule from Isaac Asimov's Foundation novels...

[@dillenbeck53531]

I remember being a kid and my friend and I rolling up ourselves - between this and the wonderfully cheesy D&D cartoon show, we were introduced into the idea of injecting ourselves into games as fantasy future versions of ourselves. V&V eventually gave way to a myriad of other games - Marvel Superheroes, DC Heroes, Champions, and so on. I think Champions won out because of the support and versatility in creating what you want, but V&V reigned with simplicity and novelty of randomly creating a character. The IP based ones were okay, but never as cool as the other systems - they were more about playing the heroes you read about. Oh, and I shouldn't neglect Palladium's entries: TMNT was obviously one we all played back in the day, but I couldn't really get too many people interested in Heroes Unlimited's low powered characters (but I did get to play it a few times - but with that system we were playing Recon and Mechanoid Invasion and other titles that escape me right now a lot more).

[@gregbanks5624]

I had to come back to this one as I'm finally playing V&V again!

[@VorpalDerringer]

I just picked up Opponents Unlimited for V&V at DragonCon, to add to my selection of villains for GURPS. When the game says "inches" is this "ten feet to the inch" a la AD&D? And what is a "power blast weapon"?

[@VorpalDerringer]

9:08 I guess not!

[@jackleg2007]

Some of the villains from the Destroyers appeared in the comic book the Elementals.

[@captcorajus]

Yes!! I forgot to mention that!

[@gregbanks5624]

Still have those, such memories!!!

[@seerieloc]

OMG V&V...my favorite "hero" had double disintegration beams and 8 HP

[@yvindheilo229]

Great video! But why change the original kick ass introduction music? :)

[@captcorajus]

For this video only. Wanted something else for the super-hero rpg

[@Dracopol]

@@captcorajus Well, that's reassuring. We want the soothing calliope sounds again! :-)

[@swirvinbirds1971]

Hey Captain, have you ever thought of looking into the old Paladium RPG? I had the books but really never had much of a chance to play it really.

[@captcorajus]

I tend to stick to reviews of things I know about, played a lot. I never got into Paladium at all, so I really don't feel I have the 'expertise' to do a proper 'retro review' of it. Thanks!

[@swirvinbirds1971]

@@captcorajus Totally fair. Hard to do a review of something you never got into.

[@JMcMillen]

@@swirvinbirds1971 Unfortunately Paladium created a lot of bad blood with the Robotech Roleplaying Tactics Kickstarter fiasco. Enough that there are a plenty of gamers out there that want absolutely nothing to do with anything they publish these days.

[@MHDebidour]

Thank you very interesting, the backgroug relation between FGU owner and the authors was very interesting. I always enjoyed FGU games since I bought Aftermath! , PSI World and Bushido in mid 80's in a small RPG shop in my hometown in south France. I bough years later V&V as an item for my collection of 70's & 80's RPG. It seems Mr Bizar had a complex relations with the FGU authors

[@lonbpalmer]

First RPG I ever purchased. By mail. Never did quite figure out how to roll to hit hahaha!

[@captcorajus]

Yeah, that sort of threw us for a loop as well initially as you had to roll LOW rather than high like in D&D, but once you figured out the chart it was actually pretty easy.

[@madhatterhimself181]

I've been very interested in getting the recent release of "City of Brass," so that you intend to review it soon is highly welcomed.

[@rotwang2000]

I never understood people who play only one game, we were playing dozens of games at any given time, it was like crack, but in 101 completely different flavours !!! V&V never made it to the shops over here, but I do vividly remember the ads and trying to figure out their game system from the stats they published in those ads.

[@fja3924]

Great game! My brothers and friends played the heck out of this rpg!

[@fulminatus6241]

Fantasy Games Unlimited had a great line up. The only one I never had a chance to play was Chivalry and Sorcery.

[@richmcgee434]

Had? They're still in business, and their prices haven't even increased over the years. Dropped, even, if you stick to pdfs. www.fantasygamesunlimited.net/

[@KhorneliusPraxxGames]

One friend had all of the Bullshido stuff...Another bought all of the Space Opera stuff...another had everything V&V and ran campaigns constantly...and I, being somewhat of a Francophile, bought all of the Flashing Blades materials. We had so many games, in so many genres. ALL OF THEIR MATERIAL WAS EXCELLENT.

[@mikegould6590]

The very first and most successful Supers game I ever ran was V&V.

[@Lwilibert]

How is this game for solo play or 2 playerS? looking for something aking to melee & wizard. Where combat is the focus but it has some rpg elements.

[@captcorajus]

Its GREAT for 2 players. Not sure about solo play.

[@Se7enBeatleofDoom]

I have a feeling the creators of City of Heroes were fans of V&V.

[@XX-sp3tt]

Where do you get the trumpet music from?

[@Dracopol]

If you want a game with an X-Men feel, you could look for PSI WORLD, also from Fantasy Games Unlimited, and likewise offered on DriveThuRPG. The game was a modern-day setting focusing on psionic characters. But you had your choice of two perspectives: your characters are the oppressed psis who must hide their powers and avoid a nasty jacked-up police-force dedicated to ferreting them out, or your characters ARE the jacked-up police-force with an assortment of high-tech to counter the superhuman advantages of the evil psis.

[@NatsuMatto]

Jeff Dee's art always seemed kind of "wrong" for D&D, despite being technically excellent, but he really shone with V&V and you could tell this was where his artistic passions lay. Hope you get a chance to do a review/overview of TSR's Marvel Super Heroes system some day... that was where I (personally) spent 95% of my Superhero role playing in the 80s.

[@nehukybis]

I bought a lot of FGU games back in the day. Bought, but seldom played. Their games tended to be brilliantly bizarre to the point of being unplayable. Their games all tended to have very narrowly focused settings. They were cool because they were clearly all labors of love, and every one of the games challenged basic ideas of how RPGs are supposed to work. For example, in their Flash Gordon game it was impossible for a PC to die. And if I recall correctly, in their D&D knockoff Swordbearer, you didn't keep track of equipment. The equipment you had available to you at any time was a function of how wealthy you were. And Bushido- my god Bushido, where the skills, equipment and social status rules were all in Japanese and the rulebook was so poorly organized it took at least 30-40 hours of study before you could play.

[@captcorajus]

Never played any of those, though my cousin was a big fan of Bushido. V&V was VERY playable and a ton of fun however.

[@BTsMusicChannel]

Review Mazes and Monsters next. M&M rocks!

[@DnDnBeer]

Where do you get your intro music? I love it.

[@captcorajus]

KZbin has a vast library of duty free music to use on your videos. I spent quite a bit of time going through literally hundreds of tracks to find the music I thought would fit. :)

[@DnDnBeer]

Thanks, I never would have thought to look for something like that. I figured I'd have to write it myself.

[@BTsMusicChannel]

It sort of reminds me of a cross between surf rock and spaghetti western themes.

[@DnDnBeer]

Agreed.

[@captcorajus]

Yes! Exactly why I picked it, because that really seemed to hit the 'superhero' vibe for me.

[@Johnny_Nitro]

Great review cap! 👍 On a personal note: if I want to get my super hero fix, my game of choice is Hero Clix. For me, a super hero theme game is best expressed in a tactical battle system. Adding all the tables and lore doesn't appeal to me.

[@captcorajus]

I get that, but with Hero Clix, there's not story. When I GM it, there are original heroes with backstories and so do the Villains. There's drama, and the stories have context, its not just about the fighting. but everyone enjoys things differently

[@Johnny_Nitro]

@@captcorajus In my case there is likely a genre bias. With fantasy I don't create a character that is a clone of anything established. What I mean is that the loadouts are so standard that the deeds are what distinguish a hero. Arthur pulling excalibur from the stone or Gandalf slaying the Balrog. Both guys have swords but the deeds are different. Where as with superheroes any character power you pick will ultimately be derivitive of an established hero. ei: I want super speed, or so the flash jr. I want to climb walls, so spidey jr. The power defines the hero as much as story, villains or deeds. Even when building a superhero you will always have a specific hero in mind. Which is like making a cheap knock off.

[@RoDaGrier]

I don't yet have a go to superhero rpg. I didn't like champions as a youth. I never tried the Pallidium game that was popular (Heroes Unlimited I think it was called). I did like and run Marvel Superheroes from TSR, and would run that again, but I wouldn't call it a go to. I have recently picked up Survive This: Vigilante City, by Bloat Games, but as I am still reading Dark Places and Demigorgons material I probably won't get to it for a while. I will pick this up too to compare DD&D to a proper OSR game.

[@bluelionsage99]

My friends and I were Champions players. The Marvel game was too loosey-goosey for us and V&V seemed weird for a super hero game because of the levels and a few oddities of the tables and calculations involved. Dealing with the points in Champions was a pain but you could exactly define your powers which appealed to us.

[@captcorajus]

Yeah, you know, i did a game where we designed our characters in champions and then converted them to D&D because while the character creation system was amazing, the actual play of the system was a slogfest.

[@brianinthebunker7407]

@@captcorajus Accepting Champions is a slow moving simulationist game and not trying to speed things is the key to it's enjoyment. ~Brian

[@Dracopol]

Fantasy Games Unlimited lost out because they put out 17 games -- with 17 mutually incompatible systems. SPACE OPERA had different systems with no real coherence to determine the success of an action. It was kind of like original AD&D which had varying Ability Bonuses that you had to look up for each Ability instead of the unifying system today (subtract 10 from the ability score and then divide the total by 2 (round down)). Only, Space Opera was like that for everything! The only sensible FGU game was OTHER SUNS by Niall C. Shapero, but that's because it licenced the Basic RolePlaying rules from Chaosium, Inc. and had a percentile-skill system. It had its own flourishes and a funky planetary generation system calculating planets to 1/100th of a gee, and rating diameters compared to Earth down to two decimal-points likewise.

[@rdreeves2332]

My favorite

[@russellharrell2747]

I always found the Marvel RPG by TSR to be simple enough to serve my needs, as long as you don’t mind rolling % dice on a universal chart. It’s not a bad system for fantasy either, although I’d use simpler magic rules than what was available. Slow incremental progression of unique character concepts beats level and class for me.

[@richmcgee434]

FWIW, Dee and Herman have put out Mighty Protectors, which is V&V 3.0 with a new name added. Currently available through DTRPG under the monkey House Games imprint: www.drivethrurpg.com/browse/pub/3246/Monkey-House-Games Worth a look if you liked V&V, especially if you're not on the FGU side of the legal tussle over the V&V rights.

[@mikesavill1474]

Never really had an interest in superhero games during the 80s so quickly passed by on anything V&V and Champions but, being a Brit, I did dabble briefly with Games Workshop’s Golden Heroes. Did that make any impact across the Pond?

[@Dracopol]

I heard the name but that was it.

[@KhorneliusPraxxGames]

I never heard of it so I am going to say "no"

[@Deannatheos]

I think you should have given it an 18 or 20 they only had so much to work with back then printing and all the other things they used.

[@brianinthebunker7407]

At the six minute mark is way too complicated math. Crazy sq. root and some sort of complex multiplication. Great look and aesthetics though. ~Brian

[@captcorajus]

Understood, but Its not that complex if you have a calculator. More importantly, its a pretty solid calculation. :)

[@brianinthebunker7407]

@@captcorajus If you ever run a one shot or a couple scenarios please please please LMK. I have a couple fond memories of playing this way back in 84-85 with my gaming friends from HS. Thanks. ~Brian

[@SkipperTheDipper]

bravo!! great content as always brother. I really enjoy your stuff! When you get a chance, check out my channel. I do OSRS videos with a comedic twist. Much love