Carbide Insert Drill versus HSS Twist Drill! WW175

[@PistosgA]

Run the insert drill in the Haas to see how much difference there is.

[@hallo07ify]

also thru coolant is nessesary for insert drills to push them harder. in normal steel i run about 200 to 250 meter per min an 0.1 to 0.18 mm per rev. it is way better to use a drill holder, simular to a weldon but bigger an 2 screws holding the drill

[@PistosgA]

Yeah, I forgot to write that point also. These insert drills are meant and designed to be used with thru coolant.

[@Neogeobrian]

Those insert drills were always a bear for me to run until I learned a neat trick, now they're my favorite. For that 1018 steel, I run 600SFM at about .0015-.003 a rev (depending on drill diameter). But there's more! It looks like in your video you used a G81 drill cycle on that insert drill. Here's my trick, use a G73, with .010 peck value with no retract. Usually machines have a slight retract with a G73 drill cycle, so you'd have to change your parameters to zero or something like .0001. This does 2 things. First it breaks the long chips, second it gives your spindle a chance to catch up. I work with lower horsepower machines, so I'm used to this.

[@LowRise]

Neogeobrian nice tip! Would some be worth investing in on say a 10HP Sharp minimill. I know there pretty close to rated power

[@Neogeobrian]

NotoriousAudio I ran a Mazak 410b (think Haas VF2) which has a 15hp spindle and regularly push a 2.312 diameter Iscar DR drill into flame cut AR400 with those settings above and it settles at 90% spindle load and sounds smooth. Chips flying off the inside of the machine turns heads 😀

[@piter_sk]

We run 40mm insert drill (SCET insert on outside, XPET on inside) through C45, 60mm deep hole is drilled just in 40-45 seconds... 600RPM (75 m/min a little conservative for carbide, but I´d try maybe 1200RPMs, which sounds better for carbide and just 0.08mm/rev) and 0.15mm/rev... nothing, just drilling cycle without Q value (Fanuc value for pecking depth): G54 T1212; G97 S600; G00 Z5 M03; G00 X0 M08; G83 Z-60 F0.15; (no peck) G28 U0 W0 M09; And with the same drill we´re opening that hole to 56mm diameter (this is lathe part), stepping it over to X-8 and running the same drilling cycle (why not, gets rid of getting-out-of-hole-G00-block) and then stepping it over to X-16.... Under two minutes, 56mm hole, 60mm deep in C45 is done, something, that´d take twice the time with twist drill, which I´d run at +-30m/min (25-30m/min recommended for HSS in steel), so 250RPM and let´s say 0.25mm/rev feed and Q5000 (5mm pecking depth, full retract with G83).. But, spindle load meter would say 95% with 11kW motor on Doosan Lynx 220LM... with a less powerful lathe/mill, I´d say peck with no retract is a great idea, but for running production, the inserts might get dull pretty fast, as they´d enter the cut many many times before it´d drill the desired hole... But for 16mm hole, twist drill is gonna be deffinetly winner, if you´d be able to push 16mm at +-550RPMs and 0.2mm/rev feed, 5mm peck with partial retract, win win :)

[@cliftonlewis1420]

Yes sir. Right on point there.

[@kirkcreelman]

I did up an excel sheet to calculate the hp available on the pcnc1100 with the VFD supply. Larger drills use slower Rpm and that's when you start to become torque limited not Hp limited. Happy to share if your interested. Thanks for the great videos!

[@nyccnc]

absolutely! email? john at nyccnc dot com

[@kmcwhq]

I'm the guy that does resharpen Twist Drills. And in this situation I would have thinned the web on the new drill right from the start. I'd be curious how much more you could push it with the thinned web and reduced center point rubbing. But mainly, yes, don't underestimate the productivity of the old fashioned twist drill.

[@MaxWattage]

Thank you John! This was a very timely video for me. It saved me from wasting a lot of money on carbide insert drills that my machine wouldn't have had the power or rigidity to make good use of.

[@kaden56]

I’m so glad you have chosen to stick to KZbin so strong! I have learned almost everything I know about machining from you!

[@TheWidgetWorks]

Twist drills are pretty much the best cost per hole in anything under 3/4"Ø... be it solid carbide or HSS. Inserts drills really only work better over 1" and at that your don't have anywhere near the jam in the tormach to make them work right. Those shars ones are crappy at best but you probably would find that 600-800 ish SFM and about .002" per rev is going to give you the best you can get with one. The best 'U-Drill' style insert drills are the seco style with the 2 square inserts. They are the bees knees but they also cost way way more so... another recommendation would be spade drills, Allied Machine ones are awesome and a pretty well priced. Spades are great because even if you don't have the torque to run them properly you can just use a fast peck to break the chip without damaging the drill as they are still HSS. also each body has a range of sizes it holds. Another thing to look at is trying annular cutters, with a fast peck they really work quite well but you do have to worry about the slug and where it's going to go.

[@userwl2850]

Widget Works Manufacturing Inc. All good info you've given.

[@Meph648]

Insert drills pretty much need through-spindle (through the tool if on a lathe) to be even worth considering. I have never really seen any insert drill run well/quiet/happy without through-coolant, the higher the pressure the better they run. I've set up a 3" diameter insert drill to bore 304 SS 5" deep (in 58 seconds, hot suppers all day long) and the more coolant we pushed the better it ran. Upping coolant concentration helps a bit with insert life, but regardless of the machine and material drilled, through-coolant is IMO a complete must with any insert drill.

[@chrispalombo6394]

SMART STUFF... said simply. A mark of a good teacher. I appreciate these. Thanks

[@ChrisMuncy]

John, great video as always. To take this a step further, you mentioned coated vs uncoated. How about a comparison of the various types of twist drills? Might be fun.

[@bcbloc02]

Unless hole tolerance are very tight a 3/4 hss drill would seem the fastest option. :-) I really enjoy these testing videos and big congrats on the 200K!

[@somebodyelse6673]

I'll second that. If the objective was a 3/4" hole, why not drill a 3/4" hole?

[@Wrenchmonkey1]

HP/Torque limitations.

[@Fextreme93]

U should try sandvik corodrill 860, its a beast! Its an expensive solid carbide drill.

[@nyccnc]

we use them on our HAAS! Not a good fit for the TOrmach

[@r.j.sworkshop7883]

John, for a larger than 1/2" hole, I wonder if an annular cutter would be close to competitive for cost. A 3/4" from McMaster is $40 (31315A115). I have never seen them used in a CNC application, but I have just started using them in a magnetic drill and all the way up to a 2" hole can give you a nice hole. I haven't checked the final hole size closely, but they seem to be much closer to nominal than a twist drill. Nice test.

[@LowRise]

R.J.'s workshop we use them all the time in our manual machines. But when we put it on CNC we generally run drill / endmill clean up.

[@maikeydii]

With annular cutters you would need to check that the slug is not stuck inside of the drill before drilling next hole so it would not work for parts with multiple holes.

[@r.j.sworkshop7883]

That makes perfect sense why I don't see them run on CNC machines. Great tools, but not necessarily the right application. Thanks.

[@userwl2850]

Always better

[@cliftonlewis1420]

They are made for manual machines. They work great for them. Not made for a CNC at all. They would have to feed so slow and turn slow. Then add the slug removal after each hole. Time is money and that would throw alot of both into the wind.

[@samboles8796]

Not sure where the torque curve peaks at horse power on the Tormach But those insert drills really like rpm, at least that’s my experience. That being said I use a lot of HSS too! Thanks for the video.

[@StevoJN]

Very interesting comparison, I've only ever used HSS drills and I've always been curious about how the carbide drills go. Cheers

[@Davemcmasters]

My shop just switched to sumitomo insert drills and they are the bees knees. Running 20 to 30% faster than any other insert drill. Coolant thru is a must with insert drills and higher RPM .

[@Fischer977]

Dave Mcmasters you probably have a more powerfull machine than this tormach. Sumi ,hitachi and dijet are best insert, for carbide drills try osg

[@Davemcmasters]

Fischer977 yes I run 2 okk machines. A vertical and a horizontal.

[@SolidRockMachineShopInc]

Are you talking Sumitomo WDX drills? If So, those are some of the best out there. We use them in the lathe as a drill and rough boring bar. Steve

[@Davemcmasters]

Solid Rock Machine Shop Inc. Yes the WDX drills. We switched from the kennametal KSEM to the sumis

[@userwl2850]

Dave Mcmasters sumitomo make great tools. I use them on titanium.

[@outputcoupler7819]

So....I _shouldn't_ get an insert drill for my Sherline?

[@donaldparker4277]

You may try a spade type drill. On ours you buy the drill body and just replace the cutting tip when you need to. We would drill oil field plungers 3/4 inch in diameter 9 inches deep in 4140 and usually get about 60 pcs per tip.

[@antoniodejesuscontreras8544]

I did try this inserted drill with a doosan cat 50 30 or 35 HP and they sucks . you must try Mitsubishi or sumitomo inserted drill, yes a lot more expensive but I think is totally worth it. Just my opinion of course.

[@Eggsr2bcrushed]

Kennametal and Sumitomo are best in our testing. Kyocera magic drills have also given good results.

[@kisspeteristvan]

antonio de Jesus contreras what about sandvik 880 , they always seem to work great , and iscar dr drills also

[@ipadize]

i guess you get what you pay for

[@SirRootes]

I use Mitsubishi insert drills and they’re great! In lathes tho. My machine I push a 40mm drill about 600SFM @ .006IPR in 1045 material.

[@CalvinoBear]

I believe I heard in one of the HAAS tips of the day that you can peck up to 4 x D on twist drills. It seems like the drills were forming chips just fine until the very bottom of the hole, and that was probably due to the 1018 cold rolled surface being harder. If memory serves me, most of the wear on drill bits is from entering cut, and having too small of a peck depth wears them out faster. If you find the tips of the day on drilling there should be more information.

[@PWLopes9000]

Without a doubt, best drilling performance on steel is achieved with solid carbide twist drills - it’s simply another level

[@antshark]

Wow, your video quality has sky rocketed lately. They're starting to looks like a videos made by Steven Spielberg. Great info in the video too! 👍

[@p1geon45]

At work we only use HSS to get a deeper hole. For normal drilling we have carbide up to 20mm. From there on up to 59mm we use indexable drills. But yeah even at 20mm those things really want to be pushed in, so having a strong Machine and Setup is the way to go. But you know how good it feels to drill a 59mm Hole 200mm deep without pecking directly into stainless steel? 150% spindle load even on our strong machines

[@JK9579]

Any possibility of retrying the testing on one of your HAAS machines to compare against the tormach?

[@FredMiller]

Did you "peck" with the carbide unit? I saw long strands of removed material. Great video! I learned a bunch! Thanks for sharing your successes AND your failures...

[@keithhansen3963]

Shouldn't peck with a insert drill. Just needed to be pushed much harder which would break the chip. The Haas will push that drill. Tormach just doesn't have the power and rigidity to handle that drill. As a general rule, pecking with any carbide is a no no. Great question however, this is how we learn.

[@PewterQ]

Thru coolant always helps with inserted drills. Also, as you said, a nice solid set screw type holder would make a huge difference at least in my experience.

[@nerdyrcdriver]

Would be nice to see how the insert drill does in one of your bigger machines

[@jakesmachinery8195]

I tend to just run a long reach end mill for those holes. I have a BP boss 8 that has limited quill travel, so drill bits are usually a good way to almost guarantee that I will consign myself to stopping work and dropping the knee to accommodate the length of the drill bit. Doing that requires me to load a new program because the table height changed and thus changed all my tool height offsets. Not a big deal, but with those added steps, just sticking to a nice rigid end mill usually ends up being the faster way for me to get a hole made.

[@davidrandall271]

Very informative and detailed, video, nice work. With regard to any cutting tool, always ask the manufacturer for S&F recommendations, they know best. Is the HSS drill standard 118 deg point? if so it is probably not split or notched. Reducing the web thickness, where 70% of the drilling force is, significantly increases the feed per rev you can use and reduces the force on the spindle. Also in this material and at that depth, there is zero need to peck, this constantly stresses and and de-stresses the drill material, and will lead to early failure.

[@nyccnc]

Great tip!

[@ianide2480]

We use high pressure through coolant insert drills, though not for large holes. Larger than 11/16 just requires a bit more HP than our machines have. Of course not all the machines that we have can do through coolant; none of our Haas machines do, so they exclusively run twist drills. This is just a limitation of what tooling that we use. You can go nuts buying thousands of types of tooling..... One thing that I do, is a lower step-over on the endmill but at a deeper cut. Something along the lines of %150 ⌀ for depth. Step-over is aprox 4-7 thousands for 3/8 ⌀ tool, 3-6 thousands for 1/4 ⌀ tool, 6-10 thousands for 1/2 ⌀ tool. YMMV and hardness of the steel determines the step-over and you can always try a wider step-over. Like you said, listen to your work to determine what is best (don't let it vibrate/chatter). These values are what I use for 6150/4140 pre-heat treated. Softer steels, you can likely increase the step-over more. I do prefer to use as much of the tool as possible to lower the over-all wear of the tool. The time difference is easily compensated by the deeper cut. I don't have feeds/speeds in front of me because we have those set, but we do use standards for chip load and there are just to many values (nearly 200 diff tools) for me to recall just off the top of my head. Using a HSS drill followed by an endmill is exactly what we do for larger holes; this is very effective when your drill size is limited by your avail HP. Cool video, as always. Keep up the good work =)

[@jimsvideos7201]

Any value in running a similar comparison in the Haas?

[@craazyy22]

probably not. insert drills are better in power full lathes because of the stability. or you want to use insert drills for durability as they don't tend to heat up as much.

[@jsseehorn]

When you tried to up the MRR with the insert drill I think you might have been losing steps because the feed and chip size was very inconsistent. I've never liked running insert drills without through coolant either. It helps form and break the chips and gets them out of the hole too. I don't think I would try any type of carbide drill that large on a Tormach though maybe not even a HSS drill that large. When HP and rigidity are lacking you will almost always come out ahead to drill smaller and interpolate the hole in terms of being nicer on the machine and the tools will last longer that way.

[@junoguten]

Have you seen those carbide insert drills that don't cut quite in center, but have 3 or more inserts along the outside perimeter that are angled outwards like a regular twist drill, only even more angle? Those require a small hole first, but they're really fast and economical once you have that, and I figure those might help solve your rigidity problems? They also seem to create rounder and finer surface finishes than regular 2 flange twist drills in my experience. Have been in some shops where they run center drill over all the holes on the part, then run a regular twist drill all the way through, then run through 2-3 sizes of those multi-insert non-center drills, then fine boring bar. They're really quite fast but I imagine expensive too unless you have a few set sizes of holes you run a lot of.

[@Flabbycakes]

Not sure if the machine can take it, but you need way higher RPM for that insert drill. I would start at 600sfm and .003-.004 feed. That drill does seem kind of crappy too. It's the cheapest insert drill I've ever seen. Mitsubishi and Ingersoll drills are excellent.

[@nyccnc]

We started with manufacturer recommendations.

[@craazyy22]

i recommend you try a HS drill with internal coolant they last really long and are the fastest drills you can get

[@patrick11169]

wondering if you found any evidence of the tool spinning in the er collet? or maby just wrong speeds and feeds for the inserts being used, had the same type of problem with a large shell mill, wound up being someone had forgot to tighten the setscrew in the holder allowing the tool to chuck slightly in the holder and was causing some strange chatter issues, like you seem to have.

[@TimeWasted8675309]

TIL: right-click, edit expression... thanks John!!

[@nyccnc]

TIL TIL

[@fredrikl2594]

Congratulations 200 000 subscribers!!!!

[@nyccnc]

thanks!

[@DairyAir]

20+ years of old school to modern maching experience. I didn’t believe it till I saw it the first time. Triple your fastest speed on the core drill and you’ll finally be getting to the slowest speed you can turn the insert drill. Now, get out the stop watch, time is money. Note the surface finish. Now, like a good little boy, get out your calipers and measure the hole size and location from both sides of the part. Now, let’s see you drill a .531 (17/32) hole, more common than half inch, it’s the clearance size for 1/2” bolt or pilot hole for 5/8-11 tap. You take that centerless insert drill and spiral mill that hole to .531 or dick around center drill, 1/2” hss drill, .531 drill, 125 finish, you’ll have to run a .531 reamer. I ran an old open table machine like that from time to time. I’m talking “stall the motor with a 3/4” hss drill” weak ass machine I only used as a supplement for rush work. Had no problem with a 1.03 hole with a 3/4 insert drill with a good 125 finish. THE ONLY TIME TO USE HSS DRILLS IS ON AN OLD ACME LEADSCREW THREAD, LIKE AN OLD MANUAL VMILL. The pre-ball screw manual machines have backlash and any carbide drills will break! There is no comparison here. We’re racing a geo metro vs a Tesla. You can drive an insert drill like a hss, but you can’t drive a hss drill like an insert drill.

[@GeofDumas]

Have you tried using aluminum inserts with non aluminum projects? I find using those and running conservative speeds works very well. It can't be pushed as hard as a steel insert but u can't imagine it would be much different than general purpose carbide tools.

[@shirothehero0609]

I know this is an old comment - but I do this often. A sharp aluminum insert is AMAZING on stainless, Ti even inconel (for light cuts of course). They really do get a razor sharp edge that is surprising to work with. I actually use an SEHT alu insert for my 4140 facing and it works better than anything I've ever tried. Glad someone else does this too!

[@DeadlinePhil]

For holes up to 16mm my absolute favorites are carbide twistdrills.

[@cylosgarage]

They say he posts Wednesday widgets an hour earlier each week... ;)

[@coreyb4073]

i just finished a job running a .531 mitsubishi taf drill in a swiss lathe its 5 horse power and was mounted in a dog leg holder so even less rigidity. i chose indexable because you get enough rpm to make it into the horsepower curve but low enough feed to not run out of thrust in z. 1.75 deep in 303 stainless i want to say 600 sfm @ .002 ipr, ran 500 pcs and the inserts still looked new that hole ended up being bored so finish was not critical i have a little wierd logic on indexables, that a little chatter is good especially when you start getting deep(i have dubbed the term harmonic chip breaking) , and i usually run them off centerline to get more chip clearance. oh and hp coolant is mandatory at those speed and depths

[@Harrstein]

Usually I just grab the Hoffmann Bible (Machining Handbook pt2). Their data is usually quite good. I find it easier to use than to look it up in some online app. In case of a uncoated 12mm drill they say its about 40 m/min (1050 rpm) with 0.25/0.30 mm/rev (275 mm/min)

[@PaulSteMarie]

What's up with the insert drill holes? They look like they're threaded. Did you break or chip an insert? Maybe one was loose?

[@r3vo830]

One can see that the spindle has not got enough rigidity for that drill.

[@ralphwishart]

Hi there, solid carbide drills should have been added to the comparison as for these kind of holes they are more recommended then carbide inserts, they, as the insert drills, they do require through spindle coolant to evacuate chips optimally. I wander what kind of hole tolerance can you achieve by pushing a hss drill like that, they tend to compress and arc leaving a bigger hole. A safe an very comfortable feed/rpm ratio for carbide is 10/1 (rpm/10=feed in mm) that will get you through most materials and assure you long tool life. As for the cost of solid carbide tools goes, even with much higher purchase price, the operational cost is about the same as HSS. Consider that you don't need to center drill, the feed rate is much higher while maintaining tolerance and that the tool can be reground to new by the vendor for a very low price (not the case with indexable inserts) I use Solid carbide drills for almost everything except for hole deeper then 5xD, plastics and large diameter holes, for flat bottom and/or large diameter I use indexables, normally from 18mm and up where the removal rate is so high, you don't really need to hurry. then the only cases I use HSS in for deep hole, normally pre drilled with a same diameter carbide drill as deep as it goes, to speed up and also to keep the HSS drill straight. the other case is in plastics, nothing beats a razor sharp HSS drill in plastics.

[@allancnc]

You must use coolant through spindle, 200 meters and 0.1 mm feed, otherwise chips will not break, and that kills the tool. Try using Gühring RF Diver HM cutters, they can ramp at speeds you have never seen, or even drill.

[@kwk8363]

0:19 this kind of insert drill neads more rigidity than those with insert on center. I guess you would get better results with the "center" cutting insert drill

[@GnosisMan50]

Interesting, but what about the drill cutting geometry? I've felt the difference between a regular 118 degree drill point and one with a split point. The latter makes a big difference. You can actually feel the split point going into the metal much easier and faster. In this, and if you are reading this John, what do you use to sharpen your drills and does split point drills play a part in your daily machining? Do you sharpen them by hand or use one of those pricey sharpening machines like the Darex to get the split point?

[@85CEKR]

I wouldn't have even tried the inserted drill at under 600 sfm, I use them all the time and the "sweet spot" is usually around 750-800 sfm

[@nyccnc]

We started with the mfg recommendations.

[@Cheezzyizill]

I would like to see more Haas videos...

[@dws_damiansworkshop]

Considering that you could resharpen the twist drill, wich takes just about the amount of time needed for changing inserts, you would get way more than 3 cutting edges resulting in much cheaper tooling.

[@nyccnc]

In my experience, few people are able to properly sharpen a drill back to factory (or better) quality. MANY can, but more cannot.

[@felixf5211]

@@nyccnc Yea, I never get close to factory.

[@chadkrause6574]

We had a process on he lathe where we used a 1.125” insert drill. It was loud, scary, but it hauled chips out and left a flat-er face than a twist drill which was desirable. The problem is, we broke an insert while drilling a hole and it totaled the tool. The tip was all chewed up and deformed, the part was pushed back and ruined, it was a bad day. Switched to 2 HSS drills, a .75 and a 1.0625 still and it was much better. It hauled thicker chips, was quieter, and had a much more reliable cut. We kept that option because the drill cost significantly less. It doesn’t seem like insert drills are the way to go yet. Maybe for superalloys

[@jhaghverdian]

I do drilling form .625 up to 4 inch diameter inserted drill " on my lathe HAAS ST30 . smaller diameter need high pressure coolant than bigger diameter . also i found out that if you run the proper sfm and feed , smaller drill body will last longer . i do drill v10, inconel , M4, M2 , D2, A2, S7,4140 daily base , and have no issue with kennametal U-Drills .

[@85CEKR]

We are primarily a turning shop and we've been using carbide inserted drill for 20 or more years, and we have some valinite drill body's that are 20+ years old and have been retired because you can't buy inserts for them anymore. If ur drilling over 3/4 inch it's by far the most efficient way to punch out a hole... Imo

[@impactodelsurenterprise2440]

Theoretically if I drill using a lathe whereby the workpiece is rotating, I can use more horses because the lathe spindle has a larger motor than a milling spindle?

[@DRrandomman22]

I've found that once you get to about .750 range the twist drills are better. I've only ran larger machines so hourse power was never a problem but also if your part is in a sketchy set up the old hss drills will never fail(except if your machining inconel then all hats off then)

[@mortcs]

John you started your test with a new sharp drill, after you push your feed and speed to the max with this material and drill would you back off a step in case the drill bit gets more dull?

[@nyccnc]

perhaps - but better option would be to sharpen

[@BiggestNizzy]

They need a bit of grunt to push them thru. Always found the manufacturer data to be pretty reliable. From memory I would be running 250m/min and 0.12rev, with TSC and NO PECKING.

[@jhaghverdian]

you need coolant throw U-Drill , then you will see the difference. i use Ø.625 up to Ø4.0 inch kennametal drill . they are awesome. you really need to try them .

[@garylarson6386]

I see customers with 15 hp lathes trying to push an 1 1/2 insert drill but the z axis does not have enought force, insert tooling needs high spindle hp and axis thrust, if you baby the inserts, they do not last

[@joshuaorange8290]

Damn, that ER32 holder has gone up 25% in 3 years.

[@SailinCTD]

That insert drill should be great in the haas. But you probably already know that

[@desertsoul02]

I used to run an insert drill in a Haas VF4 through 1045 and it wasn't fun ,I had to run really low feed rates or the drilll would vibrate/chatter. I had success with aluminium though.

[@DF-zb3yk]

not your fault, insert drills are very particular in what their needs are.

[@garylarson6386]

I do field service, most shops I go to have 10 to 25 hp machines

[@HellTriX]

For some reason I thought the spindle on the tormach was a lot higher horse than that, like in the 20-30kw range.

[@delhowe6370]

To start with you need a real Mill. TSC is a must and high coolant 300psi min.

[@andrewclarke86]

sidelock, through tool coolant and some more power, hands down a U drill, cham drill or solid carbide drill anyday

[@PeteBrubaker]

I'm guessing here, but I think you would have been better off not using the TTS adapter. You're increasing your stick out, and relying on that to be rigid in an 5/8" R8 collet? I think you may have better performance using an R8 end mill holder.

[@mattims]

have you tried annular cutters? I've used them for largeish holes 26mm and worked well although not sure on comparison of speed / cost.

[@occamssawzall3486]

That surface footage recommendation seems anemic for an insert drill. Seems more like SS numbers. Maybe wrong insert coating or grade? Dunno. Maybe just a lack of torque/HP 1018 should be starting around the 500’s up to 700 sfm at around .004-.006 per rev. Maybe try another go with higher sfm and heavier feed.

[@fbexpunge]

Occams Sawzall it looks like he's got that listed in the sheet, but didn't get anywhere near the chipload. At .0025/rev on a drill that size you are definitely definitely rubbing! Chipload needs to go up as you increase in drill size, not down. That said, you are likely right about the twist drill being the correct choice. You don't have the machine to run these tools they way they're designed to be run.

[@occamssawzall3486]

broton Well. His chart maxes at 400 and max .003 per rev. Which I think is still too low to get the inserts to get a proper bite and too slow to get the coating to active. I’d take everything on that chart and double it.

[@occamssawzall3486]

I would use the “Patriot Drilling” chart at the bottom of the “insert speeds and feeds” page. www.ultradexusa.com/technical/

[@GrandBattleCo]

I'm very new to the cnc machines what do the lights mean on the light pole on the machines? You can see one blinking white on the haas in the background

[@kongwu8390]

i think for any cnc without coolant in spindle，you should use as much water coolant as you can。（for U drill） keep IPR at 0.005，set sfm at 80sfm，use G81，then try higher sfm。 and，i think its bad for u drill not to use water coolant。for HSS drill，ether

[@Falconguygaming]

Im curious to see how it would compare in something like 4140.

[@hugohell8290]

missing rigidity and spindle power to get proper U drill usage

[@unionse7en]

could be the rake angle of the insert, not optimised for low hp...try a different insert geometry?

[@spikeypineapple552]

Is it just a UK thing to call these U Drills?

[@Deathbite166]

You forgot one important drill: Full carbide drills. My Personal favourites. Cheers from Germany

[@userwl2850]

Deathbite166 gun drills are cheaper.

[@ThunderWorkStudioAMGE]

Yeah but for depths of like 5xD solid Carbide is god.

[@CatNolara]

Maybe the results would be different if you had predrilled the holes?

[@r3vo830]

The results would be worth simply because the material removal rate would be too low. A carbide insert drill is made to drill into full material. If the machine can't handle that. Then it's the wrong tool.

[@seimela]

exactly what i have to know for my project .......i would prefer metric units

[@MrRichowl1]

Use an AMEC Cobalt Spade Drill

[@derek6877]

Mitsubishi, sumitumo, iscar, kennametal all these brands make what looks to be a twist drill with a single solid insert at the tip. Much less hp needed than the style you used and can accept much higher feed rates.

[@TCL987]

I mistook the chatter marks from the carbide insert drill for threads.

[@jakob12369]

What about tool life?

[@micahhunter2706]

@6:20 I'm pretty sure your machines head get tilted.

[@ObsidianShadowHawk]

Mawkuh Hunner Yikes, camera angles can be deceiving, but it sure looks like it walked off to the right...

[@micahhunter2706]

drill bits are highly likely to walk or misdirect. I think that's what is happening. I think a spot drill would have helped this.

[@sergegostoli9524]

WTF ? You're comparing apples and oranges here, for the test to be in any way pertinent you need to drill the same diameter for both test... not 11.9mm for one and 15.875mm for the other... the larger diameter for the insert drill implies a greater torque requirement than for the standard drill, so this test could very well fail only because of torque limitations on the spindle.

[@middlemanclayton1]

foregone conclusion really, lightweight machine, er collet, no through coolant, low horsepower all adds up to a unhappy u drill

[@Later2u]

Smaller HHS drill vs a larger insert drill? Not really apples to apples.

[@chrisharley1946]

Ufff holding an insert drill in a collet is just plain wrong. Hold it in a decent holder and you'll get decent results

[@mlnunnari]

now run this test in the haas and watch the carbide drill destroy the hss

[@r3vo830]

I'd love to see that comparison.

[@callmekimberly99]

Try again on a haas

[@landlockedviking]

One guy has a carbide insert drill...

[@YoDaPro]

Plz never ever in your life use an insert drill w/o coolant through spindle. I've seen chips melting and welding on the tool used in a similar way... you were just lucky not to. If you want to compare you shouldve used a full carbide twist drill.

[@Dr_Petey_Wheatstraw]

this is a bad comparison because Tormachs are a joke. Very little spindle power, very little rigidity.

[@kyledombrowski7051]

Yeah, not gonna be a great test for a tormach.

[@AbbeyRoad69147]

You dont need to explain how merrygorounds work. Seriously. Do like your videos.

[@MILOminatisch]

This is just a sad demonstration. No way I would ever buy a tormach...

[@chrisyoung9791]

This inserted drill is garbage and your using the wrong holder. Try a Guhring insert drill in a whistle notch holder. Guhring inserted drill have low feed force geometry and can run twice as fast as any other inserted drill.

[@fluffyluke9174]

First

[@fluffyluke9174]

No shits given... Ok bye

[@Ibedrunkalot]

Where did you end up with cycle times twist drill and contour cycle verse insert drill ? I know they don’t recommend it but I peck my insert drills . And I saw haas tip of the day that it’s better not to peck drills if you can help it to get cycle times down.