Care and Feeding of Your Drum's Die Cast Hoops (And Their Tuning Limitations!)

[@michelepantano]

Just switched to die cast, thanks for your knowledge!

[@matwashington2784]

If hoops go out-of-round, you can get a bar clamp, switch one end around (so that the clamp works outwards), you can then use clamp inside the hoop and push it back into shape.

[@desperanto.]

Udo Masshoff should watch this video...

[@killian0408]

Top score!!

[@NikkiStixx86]

hahaha 😂 that was funny

[@waynebaker2452]

In my experience the die cast are harder to tune because they are more rigid. A little goes a long way when it comes to tuning. If you bend one your doing something wrong and definitely over tensioning. Great video.

[@Darrylizer1]

Same. I've choked the hell out of my Gretsch snare overdoing it because I was used to thinner hoops. I learned that a tiny adjustment goes a really long way with die cast.

[@kyledugger1413]

This is helpful! I’ve always noticed that the alternate tunings don’t work as well on die cast but never thought about why. When you say alternate tunings run the risk of bending thicker hoops, does this mean that they’re also bending the thinner hoops too? But that it’s just easier for thinner hoops to be bent back and corrected by tuning?

[@drumdotpizza]

Alternate tunings will bend thinner hoops, yes, but if the tunings aren't dramatically off the hoops will tend rebound when tension is removed... thinner, flanged hoops are more flexible, so can 'bend' for alternate tunings without necessarily being damaged. Because heavier/cast hoops are intended not to bend, they aren't so flexible. Plus, even if the thinner hoops do get bent beyond being flat when tension is released, they're still thin and malleable, so its not impossible to tune a drum evenly with such a hoop. Trying to tune a drum evenly with a 'not flat' cast or 3mm hoop doesn't work well at all.

[@kyledugger1413]

@@drumdotpizza okay right that makes sense. Thank you!!

[@viejo.carmona]

Really interesting and useful information, I will definitely check out my die cast hoops.

[@madt0wn1]

If you haven’t already, I’d love to see/hear a video where you compare how different hoops affect the sound. I haven’t been able to find a decent one yet.

[@JorgeRodriguez-sd7yf]

Very useful! Thanks!!

[@shawnsdrumcave]

i have the natural superstar version of that drum, they're great!

[@jppavon9504]

Great stuff man! Thanks!!

[@jcantu-xy9jo]

Good stuff brother thanks.

[@mr.145]

As a pro drummer.. the folks ait gonna worry if you have1.7 or 1.9 mm hoops die cast, pressed steel ,single flange,triple flange, or hula hoops.if you make em sound good ,you will get the gig again.

[@hazardeur]

Question to the Pro: I have a Mapex Sledgehammer Snare and it constantly goes out of tune. It's always the same 2-3 lugs that get loose, usually the ones closest to where it hit with the stick, affecting the overall tuning and sound. I then bought the TightScrew tension rods in the hope to make the lugs stay but it's almost as bad as with the regular lugs. What can i do? Is the hoop mabe the problem? i'm getting desperate. also, i'm not a very hard hitter. i play mostly metal and hit em good but not overly excessive so it can't really be that....help please

[@remygaron8311]

Thanks i ll chek and mke the test 🤟🏼🤟🏼🇨🇦🥁

[@nathanielking7481]

Awesome video! Do you find that die cast rims on toms make it difficult to achieve a low pitched tuning?

[@drumdotpizza]

I honestly don't use die cast on toms. A friend of mine has a Gretsch round badge kit (vintage) that has them, but I haven't spent much time with them. I'm not sure if die cast would limit the range of the tuning, but I do know it would be hard to do the 'loosen one lug' trick that lower tunings can sometimes benefit from. I often do this, especially on larger toms for a deeper, more controlled sound. Couldn't do that will die cast hoops.

[@daveystudios2891]

Thanks for the tips. Are you in the market to sell your Artstar Cordia snare, the one in this video? Also, it is difficult to find replacement "mighty lugs" for the Mastercraft series drums. Any leads? Thanks

[@drumdotpizza]

I actually did sell that snare, I'm sorry. I bought a 6.5" version of the same drum which got a lot more use, and much as I loved it, I couldn't justify having so many drums laying around. I'm sorry (those birch/cordia Artstars are nice drums, no?) As for mighty lugs, yes, they're harder and harder to find in good shape (seems the simple majority have threads that are bent in one direction or another due to high tension on the head(s)). The good news it Tama, to this day, I believe, uses the same hole spacing on all their double-sided snare drum lugs (from the coffin lug of the late 70s to the ... whatever lugs of today). They all have the same spacing and will mount to all the various snares they've made over the last several decades. So you can find a donor drum or buy new replacement lugs (modern, not the old mighty lugs), and they'll fit your drum. Not original, I know, but keeps a great drum going! Great for players. For collectors you just gotta keep combing the sales sites, local and international for lugs and drums using them. That's all I know to do. I hope that helps!

[@ChrisHaas1]

Wow! Really cool info! So what kind of hoops would a '67 Ludwig Supraphonic have? Thanks!

[@drumdotpizza]

Likely the equivalent of 1.6mm hoops. Hoops were pretty lightweight back then (compared to today's standard) and were responsible in no small part for the sound we associate with 'vintage' drums now. 2.3mm became the thing in the mid-80s for pro drums and now 3.0mm isn't uncommon. I dig the 1.6's myself!

[@marcusbrown87]

How would you suggest bending die cast hoops back into shape? I've got a couple that aren't perfectly flat

[@drumdotpizza]

Perhaps good subject for a short? (thank you! :) Basically, you need to to find a truly flat surface (granite/quartzite kitchen counters work pretty well for this -- though they often aren't totally flat, you can usually find a large area that essentially is), and lay the hoop on it, turning it to pushing down on the edges to see where the bends are (usually the hoop will 'see saw' back and forth over the low points of the bent portions. Once you have identified the low point(s) place that low point directly against an edge of the counter (or table, whatever) and, holding the hoop at a slight angle, press down solidly (but restrainedly) to correct the bend. Check your progress on the counter/table with each adjustment (don't try to do it all at once with great force, or you'll likely do more harm than good). Take your time and don't rush things. With a little patience and care you'll get it flat again. Also, ensure the hoops roundness by laying a new head in it -- it should make even contact all the way around (or have even spacing all the way around for a slightly oversized hoop/undersized head).

[@NEALBABBITT]

I have a mid 80s Gretsch drum set. The snare head pulled through the hoop at a gig and I couldn't get it to stay in I later realize the hoop had... stretched? The head barely fits in. I bent the hoop back in shape (it was frighteningly easy) so the the head does work, however I don't think I can ever trust the hoop at a gig anymore. I got a pair of those Chinese aluminum diecast hoops on ebay, I kinda think the sound is different with the original hoops, probably because of the heavier original diecast hoops. What are your thoughts?

[@drumdotpizza]

If you're speaking of a Gretsch die cast hoop having 'stretched' that is a new one for me (must have had LOTS of pressure on it over the years). But to answer your question, I would absolutely think that the lighter mass of the aluminum hoop would produce a different sound than the iron/steel-based traditional Gretsch die cast hoop. I would think the result would be similar with regard to the tonality of the head, but the drum might produce a less strong fundamental note (the 'bottom end' of the sound). Thanks for watching and commenting!

[@NEALBABBITT]

@@drumdotpizza I thought all die cast were zinc but I've heard some old Gretsch die cast hoops we're brass.

[@drumdotpizza]

@@NEALBABBITT That awesome to know! I have never actually looked into that. I just always assumed they were some ferrous type material. Thank you for letting me know! If brass, btw, then they'd be fairly flexible (not an ideal material for strength/rigidity, but probably more musical).

[@NEALBABBITT]

@@drumdotpizza I read over and over again that due cast hoops lug castings etc are zinc. Old Rogers had brass castings that easily broke. I'm not sure is casting is the correct term for the process. Steve Maxwell (especially Steve senior) drums on KZbin is a great source of information as well as the drum history podcast on KZbin and elsewhere. If you haven't been listening to the drum history podcast you are definitely out of the loop. 👍

[@drumdotpizza]

@@NEALBABBITT I appreciate the heads up!

[@remygaron8311]

Show us how to un.bent drumhoop that would help me alot

[@drumdotpizza]

I've made a note to do this in a video or a short very soon. Thanks for the input!!!

[@nelsontorres1694]

What about wood hoops.

[@hazardeur]

Question to the Pro: I have a Mapex Sledgehammer Snare and it constantly goes out of tune. It's always the same 2-3 lugs that get loose, usually the ones closest to where it hit with the stick, affecting the overall tuning and sound. I then bought the TightScrew tension rods in the hope to make the lugs stay but it's almost as bad as with the regular lugs. What can i do? Is the hoop mabe the problem? i'm getting desperate. also, i'm not a very hard hitter. i play mostly metal and hit em good but not overly excessive so it can't really be that....help please

[@bikefreak77]

Do you still have the o-rings on each lug? My Sledgehammer will detune but normally after several hours of playing with rimshots, even with the beefy Danny Carey signature sticks. How long can you typically go before the drum starts to detune?

[@bikefreak77]

Also curious if you tune high or low. Easiest solution would probably be to grab 2 or three lug locks and use them on the problem lugs.

[@hazardeur]

you probably won't believe it but i replaced each and every rod with the tightscrew tension rods. i tune medium, i'd say. nothing too crazy. i might have to try those lug locks indeed@@bikefreak77

[@hazardeur]

nope, no o rings, just some moongel at 12 o clock. i'd say after 1 band set (roughly 1 hour) the snare is audibly out of tune and has to be re tuned and after a few songs i myself notice it in the sound already. such a bummer. @@bikefreak77

[@markkuliini]

They should not be steel, but zinc.

[@drumdotpizza]

Yep! Someone chimed in and corrected me not too long after making that video. It's interesting how you can know about something (die cast hoops) for so long without actually KNOWING how they're made/what they're made of. Thanks so much for being here!

[@markkuliini]

@@drumdotpizza yeah, I actually learned it the same way. Always thought they were steel, and then someone corrected me on my video few years back. Lol.