Why You Need To Stop Putting Projects in Task Managers

[@BillJamesWallace]

I think (could be wrong - I'll check the book) David Allen said a task with any more than 2 steps becomes a project. But I do think we have over complicated even that advice. I'm going to have to give the A-Z system another go. Thanks Carl!

[@christophersophys5363]

I really really like your point of view ! Thank you very much ! 🌈☀

[@alaska4joe]

Interesting to learn how backlog was not really a thing in the 90s. Gave me a good perspective.

[@Carl_Pullein]

A lot less distractions back then.

[@jeffreydodds4586]

Thank you, this is very helpful. Stating the obvious often is the reminder we all need. Really enjoyed the many courses you’ve prepared. 👍

[@Carl_Pullein]

Thank you, Jeffrey. Glad you enjoyed it.

[@illyshaieb]

Very helpful, thank you! Please can you do a video on deciding what should be a "task" vs "reminder" vs "event (i.e. On a calendar)?

[@Carl_Pullein]

I'll add it to my list, Illy.

[@ditchcomfort]

People usually over-complicate everything… in terms of tasks/projects etc. Just find time, and actually DO it. Yes I can understand perhaps big big companies need to have some projects but generally you don’t need them.

[@Carl_Pullein]

@@ditchcomfort I think you're right there.

[@perthmike7]

A ‘project’ is just a label and a way that business currently look at chunks of work. That work a ‘project’ is always broken down into the discrete tasks that need to be done in order to Complete that project 💁🏻‍♂️

[@timbushell8640]

Tasks go in Task managers, and "actions" in projects can stay in projects - big enough to have fully detailed processes/checklists. And I still have yet to put "take out the trash" habit or item to do - driven by a simple visual/smell trigger, in a task manager. So it stays under 20 projects, and likely "this month" only 10 fully active - but if items from a waiting list pop up, then I might add one or two. And with digital search - bulk filing of "stuff" is by month/year, not even a Mr Bertie or Ms Abacus. In highly searchable apps - with backups [Evernote and Zotero]. Excellent sanity protection vid. Nicely done.

[@Maizeak]

where did you learn about the distinction between tasks and actions? I alway get stressed that ill put a task in a note instead of an action

[@stefensuhat6716]

this is what also happened to me. I've tried the project task list system, and sometimes it doesn't feel right. Tested using time based system This week, this month, etc makes more sense and I think for now its the best way to manage the task.

[@Carl_Pullein]

It does keep things simple and allows us to prevent overwhelm and missed tasks.

[@Alex-cq7eg]

Great video as always, some food for thinking just when I needed it!

[@Carl_Pullein]

Thank you, Alex. Glad you liked it.

[@judye99]

Thanks for this video! What is your recommendation on how to approach a "task" that cannot be done in a single session. For example plan a trip. That involves a series of tasks and needs some kind of container to know when the trip plan is complete, meaning how to know you have completed all the required tasks.

[@Carl_Pullein]

I plan all my trips from my notes and for the two types of trips I have (domestic and overseas) I have a checklist for each. As any trip I take will be in my Master Projects list I see it each week and I can decide what can be done the following week. I can move those tasks to my tasks manager then.

[@kapilrakh]

Best productive advice.

[@Carl_Pullein]

Glad you liked it, Kapil.

[@patrickpedersen844]

Very interesting! I’m working with digital business development in my company and we are mostly Microsoft 365-based (Tasks, OneNote). Which setup would you recommend if I want to use Apple notes and reminders? Apple for my stuff - Microsoft 365 when collaborating with employees?

[@Carl_Pullein]

It's dangerous to use two different systems for personal and work tasks (and events). You'll find you will double book yourself. It's better to keep all your tasks in one place. However, if you are using a team-based system with Microsoft, you can create a task in Reminders to check your MS tasks for the day.

[@Komatik_]

Personal and Work is ultimately the best separation. I'd use the M365 ecosystem for work and if you want to use Apple, use it for your personal life. A team vs. not team split between two ecosystems for work stuff sounds like something you'll eventually regret.

[@andrasgearbox]

PRO - I appreciate your approach to simplify and agree to not use complex terms ("project") on simple items (eg. mere tasks). CON - The project (by definition) is a series of actions, with defined start end end dates. Like a "one off". BUT it also have a defined budget. Since you might have 30 projects, well these can be paid eg. by 10 different companies. This is when comlpexity requires the "project" and it's tools as well. CON2- a task management app (TMA) can serve GTD well without a single project. A bunch of complex situtations (we call projects) can not live without proper TMAs. Properly set up TMA can give GTD, until the TMA using company makes an effort to distinguish between simple tasks and actual projects. Mostly the don't, that's why sweeping up the floor is a "project"....

[@Carl_Pullein]

I understand what you are saying, Andras. The point about projects is, as David Allen says, "You cannot do projects, only tasks associated with projects". If you need to manage complex projects, there is dedicated project management software for that. This software will track costs, personnel, contractors and timelines. Task managers don't do that. They just tell you what you think you have to do (which, in my experience, is hugely inflated) and rather than helping you, will likely overwhelm you to the point of giving up.

[@PC-hj4wg]

This guy is right, you know

[@Carl_Pullein]

Thank you 🙂

[@RaichoNikolov]

06:05 I don't understand how I can organize everything alphabetically. If it is about contacts it is clear. But my files have a couple of criteria on which they can be organized - due date, creation date, who created the files, whose responsibility these files are, what project are these file part... Alphabetical organization implies that there is only a single way to organize information into hierarchy.

[@KendraBork]

I think there are missing components to the "more than 2 steps is a project" in GTD - namely, a project is something with more than 2 steps that can't be done in one session (and it's added to a project list as a reminder of an open loop). A project that is more than 2 steps that is first time occurrence, that's something that has the potential to be done multiple times the same way, should be considered for conversion into a checklist. After following GTD for many years, I always thought the project list was more of a weekly review-level list rather than something that sits where you see it on a daily basis. As you say, the tasks are what sit on your daily list, not the projects. As a weekly-level list, you make sure during the review that anything that was still an open loop because of the multi-step process was being moved forward still (either you know the next action to move it forward, or you're reminded to figure out what the next thing to do is.) I nearly always have a "bookmark" or "breadcrumb" view of projects/larger tasks. If I have to stop working on something, I make a note as to the next thing I need to do or a description of where I left off re the work remaining. I very rarely sit down and plan out all the steps in a project, unless it's something that I intend to convert to a checklist later. Thanks for the great reminder!

[@malcolmstephenson556]

Good presentation of how to put Project managing into its proper perspective - keep it focused. Question on the multi-step tasks that do not need to be projectized .. Your example of booking vehicle maintenance, would you recommend using sub-tasks to capture essentials components of this task? Say for example you are concerned the back passenger side tire may be damaged. YOu don't want to forget to have the service department add this to they're standard maintenance check.

[@Carl_Pullein]

Hi Malcolm, I have a note in my notes app for anything I want the service centre to check out. When I drop the car off, I open the note and ask them to check whatever is on there.

[@timbushell8640]

@@Carl_Pullein Rolling note, added to, given it is in your pocket these days via the phone... so a "context" driven note, for each major asset or collection, including list of books/music/stuff to buy or work done.

[@rb.x]

To me this is the perfect use case for a context (tag) in a task manager…

[@IzidorPokrivac]

I agree that humans can only do tasks and not projects. But I do not agree that in the case of using the GTD method, we give up the list of projects (things that have more than one activity). The weakness of what has been said is also that it is not precisely defined what is meant by the word "project". Of course, you need a project management tool for some larger projects, and a task management tool is not enough for you. But this fact does not mean that you have to give up the list of all "projects" and that this will hinder your work. I myself work on the basis of the GTD method and for its implementation I use Todoist and I have a list of projects within one project called "Projects", and individual projects within are individual sections or main tasks. Of course, during the daily and weekly review, I guarantee that each such project has the following activity.

[@jimgrant1776]

Carl - I don't know what you mean when you say "turn it into a project". Are you referring to a specific task managing app? Can you clarify? - - - I used Apple Reminders. I use the "sub-task" feature quote a bit. Sometimes, a task has many sub-tasks and I mentally start thinking of the task as a project. It doesn't seem to complicate things or increase my effort. It does help me to get the tasks in the correct sequence.

[@Carl_Pullein]

Many people assume anything that involves two or more steps is a project. My point is most things that are two or more steps are not projects, but part of a process that is frequently done. Most of these do not need breaking down.

[@MirjamAdolphi]

Thank you, very helpful

[@Carl_Pullein]

You're very welcome, Mirjam.

[@nicolaspaes]

Wow this was very insightful. Your time sector system changed a lot my workflow a few years back. I decided to check on your recent videos and I'm happy I did! Suggestion: could you make a video on Akiflow? I think it really takes your time sector into the heart of the system. Question: Nowadays with work from home, contexts seem extremely unuseful. I can do everything almost all the time. What would be the substitute for this, in your system context?

[@Carl_Pullein]

Hi Nicolas, Sadly, I don't have time to try new apps. Thanks for the suggestion, though.

[@igorchichkin509]

Omg so true🎉🎉🎉🎉awesome 😊

[@Carl_Pullein]

Thank you, Igor.

[@kapilrakh]

The idea came from S.M.A.R.T. system. Also, from office culture, pretty much everything major is a project so it can't be one off tasks like you have interpreted.

[@kapilrakh]

Having said that, I use your strategy 😊

[@Carl_Pullein]

Interesting. I spent 20 years working in an office, and 90% of what anyone in the office needed to do would not be classed as a project. It was simply working the process.

[@klimraamkosie]

Question: You state in a reply to someone that you don't have time to try new apps. I know your philosophy regarding wasting time trying apps. On a broader scale, how do you decide what you do and don't have time for? For me that's easy in the short term because you know how many minutes you have every day. But in the medium term that gets really fuzzy. Note from a fellow worker-outer: Great work on your physical fitness goals. Arms looking great!

[@Carl_Pullein]

I work from my areas of focus. These are the eight areas that are important to all of us and these guide me in terms of where I want to spend time (and more importantly, where I don't)

[@rb.x]

Use your level of excitement to gauges whether something is worth checking out. It sounds mushy, but following it often reaps rewards.

[@rb.x]

I am wondering if the title is slightly misleading - it says “why you should not put projects in to task managers” and the way you introduce it is “why you should not turn everything into a project” - to me these are different. Anyway - I appreciate your style and your pragmatic approach! Unfortunately for me, a lot of what I do in my work is project-based. Not just a global process I can work through and file away. Even though for each “project” the process might be similar, it makes sense to use projects for this because I need to know where I am in the process for each one, and each process might be different depending on the needs of the project. These can filter through to the all-important today list. For other things, life stuff, your approach could work well. I can use smart folders to sort things the way you have it set up. Thank you for that inspiration.

[@Carl_Pullein]

When you analyse what we do, pretty much everything is a process, or there's a process there that we cannot see because it's hidden. From something as simple as doing your laundry to making cars or moving an F1 team from Melbourne, Australia, to Baku. If we treated any of these as a project, there would be a lot of inefficiencies which costs money and time.

[@kenos891]

A mistake that I made myself too😅

[@Carl_Pullein]

I think we all do, Dimitris.

[@flor.7797]

But most tasks are actually projects. Your examples were just chores basically

[@Maizeak]

so how do yuo organise things?