Carnage Plus EP64 - Does Your Budget Turbo Barra Need More Ring Gap?

[@WeLoveCommodores]

Appreciate the time the whole Carnage team put into these videos. Well worth the watch.

[@matthewpotter2951]

Usually it's the motor fisting you when it breaks, good to see you dish out some reverse dominance there Scotty

[@STREETMACHINETV]

Getting in first

[@OPyamumsyadad]

Love your work Scotty, it's the perfect level of sloppy mechanics for all us backyard builders.

[@50thcam]

Dont give up on that first block just yet. There is a 14mm headstud option (not that its needed) but just gives you a bit more life for that block. Good to watch these videos too, im in a very similar position of my build so watching your videos and doing the same thing every arvo, works well.

[@brianbrigg57]

Helicoils don't do well for head bolts according to many mechanics. There are threaded inserts but I'm not sure how much meat there is in the Barra block so you would have to look at the outside diameter of insert. Time-serts are advertised as being only as thick as a helicoil insert so if we can safely tap for 14mm studs they should work fine. I've often wondered about the thread holes in blocks where high tensile steel bolts are torqued to yield so I wasn't overly surprised to see one let go. One more reason to fit good quality head studs.

[@nottodaybuddy370]

Larger head studs = more boost resilience. Does this mean that they may go with a 'built' motor at a later stage?

[@lunkydog]

Scotty, try using ATF when cleaning out honing grit. To prove its better, use it after what you think is clean and see if it doesn't pull out more grit. I bore and hone cylinders for a motorcycle shop and I'm not just making a random comment.

[@STREETMACHINETV]

Thanks for the tip mate

[@dinosshed]

Diesel is pretty good for honing and after clean, have to give atf a try. I've tended to use hot soapy water, a toilet brush and pressure blaster. Obviously requires an oiling to prevent surface rust flash when finished.

[@Fellafoe69]

Atf also stops flash rusting

[@stevenhall1004]

Yep atf does work. I was sceptical but gave it a run at work.

[@brianbrigg57]

I'm a bit more OCD when doing work on an engine so after using the 3M pad I would have to flush the oil galleries with degreaser to remove anything that might have got inside. I also use a piston with the second ring in place to push the ring down level in the bore when checking ring gaps, just like my old man showed me when I was a young feller. A practised eye would probably come within a thou or two but I don't do enough rebuilds to call my eye practised.

[@larsjuhlin6907]

Great content as per normal Scotty, Amazing how many km's Barras and LS engines can do reliably, without dumping half the internals into a garbage bin during reco/ freshen up, and still be rebuilt with most factory oem parts to make decent power . 👍

[@ThePaulv12]

Richard Holdener mentioned he opened up ring gaps to .028 - .032 thou and said at this level crankcase venting was unchanged even on the junkyard NA engines he was benchmarking before adding turbos. Seems you can go quite wide but engines in the 6 litre range have bigger bores than a Barra accounting for the added gap I suppose.

[@gregmyatt9932]

Hooray!!! ring gap time. Considering that barra had 500+ km, the ring gaps were still way to tight for boosting, especially 20+ pounds. Love your work scotty, and the fact your listening to your fans👍

[@STREETMACHINETV]

To be honest, yeah I was surprised they were that tight. Boosting that to 25psi would have been a bad move

[@gregmyatt9932]

STREETMACHINETV yeah, and Im putting it out their that thats why allot of the NA barras fail sooner as well (ring gaps are even tighter still) not so much the rods. Like you said they are just way to cheap, not much care given in the building process of them. Unfortunately their not a finite resource and well ran out sooner than later and become very pricey.

[@STREETMACHINETV]

@@gregmyatt9932 rods still fail, there's no doubt that is happening but yeah there may be some truth to the issue of ring gaps. When I was younger the streets were full of cool old school cars, but we didn't appreciate what we had.

[@gregmyatt9932]

STREETMACHINETV I wish i had kept allot of the cars I had and thrashed. Young and dumb. Should’ve listened to Dad more often. Were I did my apprenticeship, we built race engines and warm street motors and stuff. My boss used to helicoil everything, head studs and main caps mainly. I always used to wonder why. He said helicoils used to make the thread twice as strong. He was a mechanical engineer so maybe he was on to something, in regards to your head stud thread fail. Nice chatting to ya.

[@bigal878]

Good job Scotty, although I’d like to have seen new rings and bearings to give the old girl a really fresh start.

[@STREETMACHINETV]

We'll see what the bearings look like when they come out of the other engine today

[@mark7457]

Keep cutting the apexes, financially speaking, please Scotty. Some of us are paying close attention.

[@tonymartin3230]

Hello Scotty, the green top block that stripped its thread can be saved. If you use a thread insert called a time sert it will be fine. Time serts are very expensive German thread inserts but they are up to the job. I have used these before to repair head stud threads and they can cope with the torque. Available on Amazon and eBay or possibly your local tool supplier. Give them a go. I love the channel, keep up the good work. Regards Tony

[@STREETMACHINETV]

Expense is the problem unfortunately

[@tonymartin3230]

@@STREETMACHINETV, I appreciate that, but a time sert will give you a spare block and they are much stronger than helicoils. You have a block to build up, so it's not urgent. Something for you to bear in mind should you decide to repair that block. I time serted the head threads on a Honda legend (alloy block) for a customer several years ago. Having pulled out two of the original threads , the customer decided to get the whole lot done. He then completed the rebuild, torqued it all up and was a satisfied customer (my favourite kind). Sorry to go on about this but for something high torque like a head stud the time serts are the best repair I have encountered so far. I thought to tell you about time serts so that you didn't scrap your block needlessly. If you decide to repair it it might even make an episode of your show. Thanks for the reply. I hope I've helped in a small way. Regards Tony

[@Papa_BearST]

Your a mad dawg Scotty! Love ya work, keep the content coming! Barra the f%$king world!!!

[@andrewtaylor9615]

I've been told to aim for a 45 degree cross hatch on the hone and not to be too shy on the depth, lots is better. Don't worry about the honing wearing out your rings.

[@DodgyBrothersEngineering]

You have no idea how happy it makes me to see this video. The other consideration is that you are using LPG which is a dry fuel, which in turns means even greater cylinder temps. Yes you do get some latent heat transfer, but most of that energy is given up to the intake air temp, rather than providing cooling to the piston and rings like petrol. Scotty did you consider going with bigger studs or just not possible?

[@STREETMACHINETV]

Not really necessary at our power level

[@DodgyBrothersEngineering]

@@STREETMACHINETV was thinking more along the lines of just reusing the block, more than needed.

[@STREETMACHINETV]

@@DodgyBrothersEngineering if I get the budget one day. Sure

[@DodgyBrothersEngineering]

@@STREETMACHINETV guess since you already had a usable block it was kind of the sensible way to go. Can keep the green top block for a mega boost build ;O)

[@mark7457]

Yep, always good when the rag comes out clean. Noice vid Scotty, cheers.

[@bengibson3955]

Scotty-why don’t you do all this stuff with the engine on it’s side? Much easier to torque mains etc, oil doesn’t run out of the bores as fast when honing. I guess I can see why you’d go vertical for the hone but lots of stuff is easier when the engine is on it’s side. ;)

[@boblogIIIfan]

Im attempting to do oil gears, and all gaskets on my greentop before i put it in my xh. A fair bit of effort , so good on ya scotty! Infact i gave up after doing the intake manifold lol. Im just gonna slap it in

[@jarrodmccudden4427]

Cracker of a video mate currently just about to do one with stock fg turbo rods and pistons so this gives me hope!! Keep the awesome content up can’t wait to see it on the dyno! 🤙

[@vin18m]

If only you used the shifter to tighten those head bolts like you’re supposed to hey Scotty!

[@MattPratt]

Impact them on. Just count the ugga duggas so you don't over torque.

[@MAS__motorsports]

Good work mate, when you do a final bore clean grab some atf on a rag and see how much more crud you get off with it... Goodluck.!

[@peterdavies9209]

Check the socket you use on the head stud nuts doesn't narrow on the inside and grab the end of the stud, this pulls the threads or snaps the stud. I've done it and learnt the hard way

[@STREETMACHINETV]

Interesting theory

[@MrDOHC1JZ]

Nothing wrong with using a non-abrasive disc to remove gaskets. So long as you don’t remove metal you’ll be fine. Gotta be much more careful with alloy tho

[@STREETMACHINETV]

Yeah I wouldn't use it on the head, that's tricky razor blades and brake clean

[@samvlt]

@@STREETMACHINETV get a knife sharpening stone to hone the surface of the block once clean scotty legit

[@michwas7270]

@@samvlt how well does the knife stone work never been game enough to try it I've always just sent my blocks to the engine machinist

[@samvlt]

Mich Was no substitute for the machine shop

[@2secondslater]

I was gonna say in one of your previous videos that forced induction engines require larger ring gaps Ps, I have seen headbolt threads pull out of a Barra before, was caused by head bolts being reused on a previous repair, the bolts stretched and bottomed out in the block and pulled the threads.

[@craigfiles7067]

If i remember correctly Atomic do a larger head stud that needs the original threads to be drilled out & re tapped to the larger size

[@STREETMACHINETV]

Yes there are 14mm studs available but they're really for the big banger 1000kw builds

[@Tuskanr]

Love all the DIY stuff!

[@rickfletcher8422]

Great vid Scott! You definitely could’ve used a shifter though, if you set it correctly, it’ll just slip right off when the required torque specification is met👍🏻

[@plumbs7199]

Being a brilliant keyboard engine builder lol! I believe the momentary seizing in the bore doesn’t hurt the pistons in a Barra . Because the rods are weak and bend them . Similar to detonation !! Just a theory! Hope you go to e 85 on this and give up on lpg . My opinion I don’t think you can do it on lpg !

[@dinosshed]

You can definitely do it on lpg provided the system is setup for it. Having two banks of vapour injectors running with decent boost and no added line pressure won't help. A dual blow through gas research carbs and an inline liquid pump would piss it in.

[@ventura9513]

500 000 on the engine,, i'd be checking the bores for out of round too

[@STREETMACHINETV]

Not much I can do about that one without a full machine shop. It's probably not great but we're going to send it anyway. There's no lip on the bores.

[@dinosshed]

@@STREETMACHINETV easiest way is with a straight ruler and a torch. If you can see light then it's not square. It should be good enough though.

[@ventura9513]

@@STREETMACHINETV true mate,, if going to that extent , might as well bore it out, get it decked and line bored,,, budget build and send it with 30 lbs boost haha

[@alt7488]

what's the worst that can happen......

[@plumbs7199]

Only just run in ! Lol!

[@kippen64]

Really curious to see what happens. Going to need another engine for my car at some point. 620,000km.

[@bunning63]

Think ringgaps have become one of those catch phrases every keyboard mechanic has become obsessed with.

[@STREETMACHINETV]

There's a bit of truth to that.

[@hayabusa8184]

Its been a staple of most turbo/nitrous set ups since the beginning of the engine design. It might be that the general flog on facebook and youtube doesnt learn to gap the rings on an engine they are assembling and in doing so, assembling their engines the wrong way. How bout dat?

[@plumbs7199]

I’m a really good keyboard engine builder! Go ring gaps !!

[@alt7488]

there are enough youtube videos around of the effects of what happens if you don't....namely hotrod engine masters and thier 305 on nitrous

[@bunning63]

And always blamed... kzbin.info/www/bejne/r2TRoqOQe56ql5I

[@sircefiro]

Seem to see a lot about ring gap at the moment, I think most manufacturers recommend a bigger gap on the second ring now

[@ryanroby2630]

Possibly knock out the freez plugs get all the junk out to keep it from going in your cooling system.

[@wingoson]

Yay Scotty, finally doing the ring gaps..

[@geneva760]

HA - matching engine numbers - the HOLY GRAIL - HA. And - the MAGIC shifter falling to the floor -- a classic tool that ALL workshops need. HA - I pitty Scotty's wife with those HONE HANDS - HA.

[@jimclarke1108]

Barra mundy, tuesdy and all week

[@STREETMACHINETV]

All barra all the time

[@boblogIIIfan]

Do these blocks need surfacing before a new headgasket? Nevermind this is carnage

[@STREETMACHINETV]

Carnage life

[@guhfluh]

Studs not fully threaded into the block first maybe? Or maybe threaded in with oil/trash in the hole and hydroed when installed? Or bad torque wrench - I've had one I bought brand new and it cost me big time. Strange to see it pull the threads.

[@STREETMACHINETV]

Tried two torque wrenches. Had two studs go soft, tried another wrench and had two more go soft.

[@the-THORNSPAWN]

How did you manage to strip a thread? They're torqued to 140+nm from factory. The studs mustn't have been in far enough.

[@STREETMACHINETV]

Studs were in fine, just a freak thing

[@the-THORNSPAWN]

@@STREETMACHINETV We used to helicoil stripped head bolts in the factory so the block is saveable.

[@STREETMACHINETV]

@@the-THORNSPAWN Sure, or we can drill and tap it for the larger 14mm head studs, but it's certainly hurt a couple.

[@lukeoreilly7268]

Love ya style scotty👍

[@brettus9115]

I doubt you're into the engine long enough for the ring gaps to be an issue on the barra unless it's a circuit car with high boost or you are beating on it for stupidities sake like it's stolen...in reality it's a quarter mile or less it's subjected to. Tune any engine to the ragged edge though and you're on borrowed time regardless.

[@martyburgess341]

I wonder how many "Internet Mechanics" were blowing up about the 3M disc being used to clean it hahaha!

[@martyburgess341]

#StreetMachineTV I have the perfect meme for this ;)

[@deanrobert8674]

Hmmmmmmmm Ring gaps and flogged bearings on the old taxi thanks Big Fella.

[@7071t6]

Scotty nop way that the top of the block is supposed to have anything on it, it should be all metal and shinny and with a cross linked swirls on it, from a decking machine making it perfectly flat and cleaned, all it takes is a little bit of crap or hi and low spots and there goes that engine again mayte, how many engines has the taxi been through again, lol :) budget build yes i know but hey do you want to make the engine last, after all your taking it to the drags right?

[@tony66au]

Nothing wrong with a bit of Ring Gap, makes the up and downy bit safer under load and keeps the thing from screaming if you score the bore and destroy the Ring........... And nobody wants a destroyed ring coz that causes leakage, blowby and spurting of nasty fluids and blowby. :-D

[@craig84downunder]

I love the gasket removal method, could do more damage with the blade!

[@2secondslater]

Flat honing stones are better than Dingle Berry hones, they keep the bore more true

[@michaeldaley4418]

Great explanation. Loved the video

[@JesusisJesus]

7:40 - Just use RUSTOLEUM mate!

[@davenelson1571]

Sounds like another case of Scotty letting his hulk strength go to far

[@STREETMACHINETV]

Haha

[@danielforster7797]

love work Scotty

[@7071t6]

WT Hell please scotty matre change the welsh plugs and also make sure you have all the right hose clamps made for the job and also please put a good trans cooler and make sure the radiators own internal trans cooler heat exchangers are not connected to the transmission that way if anything goes in the radiator you don't have to worry about transmission fluid going not the engine etc. :) Head studs for arp and the turned in the block WOW that is very rare indeed, must be from all that HP and deforming the original bolts used and thus weakened the steel somehow, but again could have changed it to 14mm like you said in the other upload from 12mm. that way you have even more strength from head to block. :)

[@STREETMACHINETV]

As a taxi it's run an external cooler from day one.

[@WinginitMotorsports]

Fkn doing the Lord's work here Scott 👌👌

[@hookemups6710]

nice rebuild but using old bearings that have worn into another crank is pretty sketchy.. im a volvo truck mechanic for 30 years.. ive done it before under customers request at a 50/50 win. your choice.

[@mickwebs]

Taking a leaf out of Harry's book (Haulass Garage) Scotty Bob how to build a barra!

[@ufi123]

You feeling ok Scotty? i don't think i saw a shifter at all?

[@STREETMACHINETV]

It was there.

[@ufi123]

@@STREETMACHINETV I had no idea that they made torque shifters, you could do head bolts with one! www.checkline.com/product/GEK/GEK135-W36E

[@ventura1893]

Are they the LPG rod's and pistons The factory turbo rod and pistons have Clips holding the gudgeon pin's in/ under full load for extended periods the LPG gudgeon pin's walk and don't do the bore mutch good

[@justincastillo7553]

Hey bud love you vids just one thing the second ring gap is always bigger then the top ring

[@STREETMACHINETV]

Not always some ring manufacturers go slightly tighter on the second ring gap.

[@andrewvassallo3444]

Nice honing job

[@dinosshed]

30 thou for the top ring in my opinion. I do that with au engines and makes them live. Gets messy when fisting on the rag

[@STREETMACHINETV]

Whoa, that's a gap!

[@dinosshed]

@@STREETMACHINETV that's what I thought until doing it. No change in blow by at moderate loads, not catching the rings anymore either.

[@mrjmc]

What is the honing tool you have Scotty?

[@STREETMACHINETV]

Supercheap

[@nazzcar7]

The real question is will it run 10's 🤔 I bloody hope so. Send it Scotty

[@STREETMACHINETV]

I hope so too

[@TomBudin]

Blew the gearbox on the is200 lol hopefully the volvo isn't gonna give you issues any time soon HA

[@mitchsmith8980]

How do you go with junk off the 3m disc going in the oil returns / galleries?

[@STREETMACHINETV]

Flush it out

[@boostedperformance4529]

What is the cheapest but best Barra engine to use? Red top, blue top, Green Top, Blacktop? I'm from New Jersey USA I'm looking for a Barra engine to go in my notch back with a big Turbo and a Glide and transbrake

[@STREETMACHINETV]

Best value for money is the green top, but they're are going up in price, and you're limited to around 500rwhp. If you want bulk power just buy a base spec Barra and add rods and pistons with the usual valve springs, injectors and other goodies and send it to the moon.

[@brendanmoir6933]

“Where going to do it right” Get a drill and 3m disk to deck the block lol

[@sdvs96]

Love the show guys when you gonna do a v8 Ford Holden Chrysler what ever to much Barra!!🤔🤔

[@STREETMACHINETV]

We've done V8 Holdens, V8 Chryslers and LS1s

[@sdvs96]

STREETMACHINETV do more we need more!!😂😂👍🏻👍🏻

[@SUPERCOACH360]

Gap it and send it!

[@markfinnigan4994]

He's trying! Didn't you see him fisting it?

[@SUPERCOACH360]

@@markfinnigan4994 sure did. It's like shed porn but better!

[@paterson022]

Why not just put a recoil in the block to hold the stud in? Seen them hold heads down for years with no problems

[@STREETMACHINETV]

It did more than one, we suspect there's something wrong with the block

[@baikal4784]

Scotty Scotty his the man….. If he can’t turbo it no-one can. Or is it Scotty Scotty his the man if can't fist it no-one can lol. Love ya work

[@dexcfw8374]

whats your thoughts on a bf gas engine making 450hp on 98 pump fuel? valve springs, mls head gasket, oil pump gears, head studs, valve spring retainers. thoughts on this? Thanks

[@STREETMACHINETV]

Flywheel or rear wheel?

[@dexcfw8374]

@@STREETMACHINETV 450 rear wheel

[@STREETMACHINETV]

@@dexcfw8374 you're going to stuggle on 98 octane because of the higher compression of the LPG engine. Easy on E85 with injectors and pump but yeah 98 is a struggle

[@dexcfw8374]

@@STREETMACHINETV so im better off just using a ba turbo motor to make 450 on 98? i can swap the gassy for a ba turbo motor

[@jamesblanton9364]

Great fisting work big fella ! How grouse are the old Barras mate ?

[@rollinghelmet]

show us the l67 build

[@STREETMACHINETV]

It's coming. The engine is together but I wanted to have it in and running to finish the video but we're waiting on the pipes.

[@shannonheraud_tuf253]

Just make sure you assemble it with plenty of moths guys, moths make HP 🤙 haha

[@STREETCARCULTURE]

Keep it up mate 👍🏾

[@keiracurro8407]

Defective ford engines seen a few intechs and good ones.

[@Paul-qq7mh]

Great video

[@ceegee3664]

Waste not, want not How green r u? List those 577 000 km bearings on Ebay Call it recycling revenue....

[@plumbs7199]

Ring gaps yeah !

[@guhfluh]

Crosshatch looks way too shallow to me also. Slower RPM, faster in and out I'd say.

[@STREETMACHINETV]

I agree it's not perfect but okay for a drill

[@wayneireland4802]

Rod knock? Ya said it Scotty bearing wear .when ya boosted turbo taxi much more load force expansion etc.crank act's like a spring. 25 pounds boost putting a shock through the crank 2 to 3 times more harmonic resonance than stock.did you use ome harmonic balancer if so it's not in thing hertz to tune to them mods our performance gains.bearing wear a tell tail sign off harmonic tuning or lack off it.use oem damper again will destroy 4 engine damage start at main bearing and progress elsewhere rod bearing rods and so on. Harmonic tuning overlooked or not even thought off big mistake.

[@STREETMACHINETV]

That particular engine was never boosted

[@wayneireland4802]

Sorry miss understanding I was implying to your previous motors that shit themselves.where they factory barra turbo engine or didn't you just turbo a normally aspirated motor.heard of Gale banks watch what he got to say about harmonics that man is a wizard.

[@Ro-ni7nm]

Its your torque wrench i had same issue

[@STREETMACHINETV]

Two different torque wrenches were tried

[@simonbond6510]

Love your work, yay ring gap🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@obrienracing1]

On this episode... we put together a motor that will sound like a pair of shoes in your drying machine

[@STREETMACHINETV]

The last one runs fine

[@obrienracing1]

@@STREETMACHINETV you do better work than me

[@gazza116]

the striped apron is in the mail.

[@STREETMACHINETV]

Very funny

[@elrud5964]

Good thanks

[@markjones7045]

Ring gaps and fisting. To a non-mechanic I would have to wonder if I'm on the right channel .

[@STREETMACHINETV]

Haha

[@CRFLAus]

I was thinking the exact same thing.

[@sanityd1]

Someone has been watching Mr Holdener

[@STREETMACHINETV]

Actually I haven't but I know who he is. He's a switched on dude

[@rosscairns6733]

but you didn't say it is going to run 10's?!?

[@STREETMACHINETV]

LOL

[@jagstax7746]

Way to many ads my dude!

[@nathanmaher8850]

hi mate I'm sorry if I'm late to watch this😂🙏🏻

[@corporalpunishment1133]

577 000k or 1 577 000k on the motor

[@manitoublack]

Depending on what you value your time at. you'd have been financially better off to have simply built a motr from day 1... Obviously this makes better television

[@STREETMACHINETV]

My time is paid for by the boss

[@nordic5490]

Im interested in this. Am going to fit a green top LPG to my FG XR6T for the superiour compression, ie, pre boost spool response. Diy all the way.

[@TheScary79]

Its a Ford block they are all soft.