Carnitine, Choline, Cancer and Cholesterol: The TMAO Connection

[@mmezias]

I'm a vegan so I'm really happy to hear that I can eat meat out of the blue and not have these effects happen...BUT...there seems to be an opportunity to find out how long between each of these "out the blue, steak" sessions we can have without it causing a concern for TMAO or any other concerning types of effects on the body. Dr. Gregger, is there any information on this and if not could this be a focus for a follow up? P.S. absolutley love your work and thanks for saving lives!

[@Albopepper]

As much as I love this channel, I really have to question the assertion made here: _"Another recent study found that men who consumed two and a half or more eggs per week-that’s just like one egg every three days-”had an 81% increased risk of lethal prostate cancer.” Now, it could just be the cholesterol in eggs that’s increasing fatal cancer risk, but it could also be that choline."_ One large egg, hard boiled has 147mg choline x 2.5 *per week = 368mg.*

[@MsNicox3]

Dr. Greger talks about choline in plants in this video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/d17Og4iaqNWcias spoiler alert: its safe to eat your daily portion of broccoli.

[@Albopepper]

Thanks for that link! I'd seen it before, but watched again and picked up a couple things. These articles seem to have some good insights: www.medscape.com/viewarticle/879156 www.clevelandheartlab.com/blog/choline-tmao-heart-health/ I think if you have a polymorphism that can impact choline production, it would be best to be tested for choline, B12 & homocysteine levels before considering a choline supplement.

[@ajayray8814]

Dr Greger clearly states that vegans don't convert those foods to TMAO as they don't have the right gut bacteria to convert it, essentially we lose it which is a good thing.

[@ArtDesignHobby]

Well...Maybe doctors don't have to be good at maths. 😆

[@janek49]

He answers this question in the video at 3:15. Vegans don’t have the TMAO-generating bacteria in their gut.

[@Yardieboss]

What about Acetyl-l-carnitine (ALCAR) which crosses the blood brain barrier and is essential for acetylcholine production? And also what about citicoline (cognizin) which is also essential for acetylcholine production? Are they safe to supplement?

[@lucasg1312]

Same question here! An alternative doctor told me to take it cause I'm vegan but now I'll stop that until I have proof that it's safe🤐

[@tabularasa8007]

Acetyl-l-carnitine has been demonstrated at a dosage of 3g a day (far in excess of general recommendations) to induce over a ten fold increase in igf-1. High Igf-1 levels are associated with an increased risk of many common cancers. That's not to say the outcome of acetyl-l-carnitine use would be an increase in cancer risk, as acetyl-l-carnitine also stimulates other biological pathways. On that basis, however, I'd avoid it personally until more conclusive research is carried out. www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7507632/ www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5119990/

[@kazzz2765]

i feel so much better with alcar that i won’t stop taking it even if it has the same effects as l-carnitine.

[@tippitytop]

@@lucasg1312 You're fine if you're vegan 'cause your gut lacks high saturation of Choline and Carnitine metabolising microbiome.

[@KTPurdy]

@@tippitytop towards the end, Greggor claims that supplements pose the same problem.

[@joshuaalexander3618]

Ok... I first heard of both choline and L-Carnitine (in the form of Acetyl L-Carnitine) in the context of nootropics. What is interesting is that both of them were recommended for their neuroprotective attacks. In fact, I had heard that choline deficiency was a factor in neurological diseases such as Alzheimer's. So, are we just picking our poison, here? If I had a choice, I'd rather have a healthy brain and die of a heart attack than have a healthy heart and lose my mind. Maybe it doesn't have to be a dichotomy... but I'd like to know what the truth is here. Are we just doomed either way?

[@user-fi4rn6hr4r]

we are doomed to die surely. Choline is indeed a great nutrient for brain and nerves. There is no dichotomy in nature. Only in our brains as we accustomed to think in extremes : good or bad, positive or negative. Wholesome thinking makes us feel uneasy. We love certainty. ALL nutrients have bad and good effects on us. And they all interact. The picture is very complicated and becomes even more if we take into consideration that biochemically we are not alike.Our nutrition demands are not the same in winter and summer, and change when we age or under a lot of stress or overeat. eat less and variety of foods to randomize risks from each of them while still getting all nutrients.

[@botzer8817]

@@user-fi4rn6hr4r Not all nutrients have bad and good effects like choline, creatine for example or antioxidants from plants there's no study about eating too much plant is bad for us (except oxalate)

[@JustAnotherVegan]

What the critics ignore is that most of the studies demonstrating a cardioprotective effect of carnitine were done on carnitine given intravenously. Since the carnitine went directly into the bloodstream and bypassed the gut, it didn't produce TMAO.

[@MindBodyStudio]

I have been vegan for over 11 years, I have definitly been deficient in choline. I started a suppliment and my thinking, memory, and brain fog are gone. He is talking aboute high choline intake. You need choline, but not too much. I take a suppliment once a week.

[@Malocat]

Is there no way of obtaining the necessary choline intake through vegan diets? Say for when one decides living off the grid…how would one fair then?

[@KTPurdy]

Except Greggor claims that even 1 egg per every three days affected prostrate cancer rates.

[@uberneanderthal]

or you could just eat meat like a healthy human. that will increase the bilophila in your gut which metabolizes TMA into DMA. problem solved.

[@KTPurdy]

@@uberneanderthal meat and dairy triples your chance of prostate cancer over plant based proteins. High BCAAs in meat activate MTOR levels higher enough that accelerate aging to a higher level than plant based proteins. Problems gained. BTW, cave men were plant based humans.

[@uberneanderthal]

@@KTPurdy ridiculous on all counts. 25g of protein from beef contains ~4g of BCAA. 25g of protein from lentils contains...~4g of BCAA. all cancers feed on glucose, i.e. what all carbs breakdown into (or fructose, which is even worse and is responsible for fatty liver disease). how exactly did pre-agrarian man eat a 'plant-based' diet? tubers and berries were only ripe for 1-2 months out of the year, and neither in great enough abundance or nutrition to be the sole source of food. most of the other plants people eat today didn't even exist 10k years ago. it took generations of cultivation just to make plants quasi-edible. still toxic and bereft of nutrition, though. even more now that they're sprayed with carcinogenic pesticides.

[@lazur1]

(No matter how great Paleos think cholesterol is, beneficial cholesterol components of cells is neither increased raising it in plasma, nor decreased lowering it, thus remains only positive consequences to lowering, only negative to raising. Translation: No reason to eat animal products, many reasons not to.

[@7in1]

I see junk eaters posting junk comments

[@Lars-Alexandra]

Thank you :-)

[@RobertLongM]

😵😦😲😰 Keto suggests eating like 4 eggs a day ! WTH ? I hear no TMAO complaints in the community. Yet yesterday was the first time I smelled like a cat pee’ed on my sweater. Turns out it Was my armpits. I’m scared

[@georgestathopoulos6198]

Robert Long i went plant based 2 moths ago and my sweat stopped smelling entirely. I used to be a heavy sweater. Plus I tend to sweat less.

[@botzer8817]

Of course there's no complaint, like carnivore diet people dont complain about cancer because it takes time to develop in your body

[@RobertLongM]

@@botzer8817 WOW - 4 years ago I made that comment! I was in a Xanax Benzo withdrawal then. None of my systems were working properly. I realize we are in a world of genetic defects that there are no answers as a 1 size fits all.

[@wadepatton2433]

Your gut biome controls your health. YOU control the health of your gut biome by WHAT you FEED it. It's really that simple. One of the most important substances for a healthy gut is FIBER. BUT fiber is the MOST deficient substance in the Western Diet. (SAD). 90% or more of Americans are fiber-deficient by the Gov't standards and the Gov't standards are extremely low relative to what our ancestors ate. Paleo was a plant eater, mostly (according to the fossil record, not the fad book). Be responsible for yourself, eat fiber-it's all around us.

[@SCOTTDAVIDSON32]

Pretty important info for me as I have a bottle of lecithin in my freezer. I thought choline was important for higher brain function. It's getting dumped now. Thanks Doc!

[@KTPurdy]

I had been supplementing with Choline as well before reading the nih reports tying high levels to prostate cancer.

[@Mechanical_Star]

Wonderful video, 9min of almost all you need to now. tnx doc :)

[@zg471]

Curses. Just checked my multi-vitamin. It contains both carnitine and choline.

[@edouardocastillo]

Those are essential nutrients the problem is not the nutrients its your gut, you have to have a healthy gut, this guy is just inducing fear

[@finlaysandham6935]

@@edouardocastillo carnitine is not an essential nutrient, did you even watch the video?

[@Maybe.later1]

Damn, I supplemented Carnitin for years. Bad idea as it seems :(

[@Maybe.later1]

Mario G true

[@bookmouse770]

1981 Mogli: what matters is what you eat now and you make your body new after a few years.

[@WOB1010]

I was taking Choline to boost Brain function ,as it is increases the efficiency of Nero-transmitters ? {High amount found in coffee.}

[@antoniopiccardo]

Not a single participant in this study ate stake alone.250 milligrams of isotopically labeled carnitine from a supplemen was added. Even with this large amount of Carnitine the TMAO levels showed no increase prior to the course of antibiotics. The vegans tested never ingested a course of antibiotics.Furthermore Carrots, tomatoes, cauliflower, potatoes and peas resulted in higher levels of TMAO than beef or chicken. If you doubt it then just look it up.

[@bookmouse770]

John: steak

[@LordOfDhara]

@John Cocktoasten did you even listen to the part where he says that vegans don't produce the bacteria that creates TMAO? that is the reason they don't produce any. It doesn't matter if they took antibiotics, that was a totally unrelated test. Also "The vegans tested never ingested a course of antibiotics.Furthermore Carrots, tomatoes, cauliflower, potatoes and peas resulted in higher levels of TMAO than beef or chicken." Just no that's completely wrong. look at the study and show me where it says that.

[@just2eve]

Study out yesterday. Wow. Thanks for giving us this info right away!

[@TheAnnaFisher]

Thanks for the scientific evidence to guide and protect us from illness.

[@AstralS7orm]

"Estrogenic crap" -> citation needed. And a good one. If soy is really an endocrine disruptor, there should be good studies on it. Choline is indeed required, but that does not mean you should gorge on it. High amounts might as well be toxic. There's plenty of it in plant foods alone. Alpha GPC is definitely understudied and way too much to be called "ultimate" anything.

[@hardkandi]

Awesome video! Thank you for the longer video. This is an important subject!

[@gyrate4]

Love, love, love you dude!

[@BourneAccident]

Dr. Greger's technological nomenclature frightens me. Words like IF MAYBE COULD MIGHT MAY FIGURE SEEMS are quite scary.

[@tigerlilly3727]

+McDoppler very good.

[@Phronesis7]

I can see why you'd say that, but that is just not true. Think about it, are you suggesting cutting out fat from the diet when your body's entire structure, especially your brain NEEDS it? The solution to a problem caused by too much of something will never be solved by cutting it out altogether. That's going from one ditch to another. Balance is key. Also there is too much emphasis on 'cut this food group out and your problems will be solved' rather than eat and EXERCISE.

[@tobysgusto]

Hello. I am extremely deficient in Carnitine. My total Carnitine is 16 and my free Carnitine is 10. I am now taking L-Carnitine 500 mg twice per day but only for 3 weeks. I am very dizzy and see stars when I bend over and then stand back up. I am wondering if this is related? I am whole food plant based for past year. Any suggestions for me would be so much appreciated. I do not know where else to turn as my conventional doctor seems to be clueless about this.

[@Flirri]

I hope everyone sticks around through the whole vid to see the kicker at 8:30 ...

[@8ball117]

Why do people hold on to "their" animal products so closely? In all honesty, bird eggs are a freakishly disturbing food that originates on the inside of an animal's female reproductive system. I also see a lot of comments about grass fed beef... Again, that is a living animal like a dog and killing it for pathetic reasons is also very sickening. Carrots are so much more healthy than grass fed beef, and carrots are just generic vegetables. There is nothing great about animal products.

[@tal2471983]

Really confused about choline, there are so many claims that its actually detoxifying to the liver... Why is that?

[@user-fi4rn6hr4r]

because these claims are correct

[@fdenne3]

please,please,please, don't stop

[@musicforaarre]

Excellent info; very well explained. I never heard of TMAO until tonight. I was watching a video by Dr. Dean Ornish, and he mentioned it.

[@wademt]

Wow this was a great one! Thanks Doc!

[@chiyerano]

I heard about this. Interesting study.

[@danic1378]

Thanks for sharing!!!

[@marilynbennett9868]

OK, but what about soy lecithin or sunflower lecithin - plant foods - that have choline?

[@TheaDragonSpirit]

Saw an article on this the other day!

[@Bajoli86]

So we shouldn't eat chickpeas as well, because there is choline in it? Sorry to say this, but correlational studies based hypotheses are wrong 80% of the time. Correlation isn't causation.

[@botzer8817]

Theres much less choline in chickpeas than in eggs, and its less bioavailable than in eggs

[@natureasintended]

Wow Dr.Greger, I'm so glad about you appearing on TV! :-)

[@nyx211]

What about vegan butter containing soy lecithin?

[@dtaylor4200]

This reinforces the fact that life is a balancing act: choline is necessary for the production of the neurotransmitter acetylcholine. Too much or too little choline is detrimental to our health. We have to aim for the middle in order to achieve our optimal health.

[@botzer8817]

But more than 90% of people cannot reach the RDI of >500 mg for men. So if people have issues because of choline at a lower daily intake, it means that the RDI is way too high.

[@derBreunig]

You can. I reduced them to once every 2 Month - and i used to drink 2 to 3 per Day... you can make it!

[@janiceg7661]

Well, this is confusing. I just saw a YT video promoting eggs and liver for choline protecting the brain. I give up I really do. I am not big on eggs and dairy, but I do like liverwurst oddly.

[@royroy7814]

Another great Video! Thank you Dr. Greger! Eggs scare me "for sure"

[@blueberry11051]

In a press release from the Cleveland Clinic, Dr. Stanley Hazen indicated that the results were preliminary and should not be misconstrued to suggest that folks stop eating eggs, meat, or other choline sources (which happen to include common heart healthy foods as wheat germ, broccoli, and Brussels sprouts). In fact, according to a Cleveland Clinic article, Dr. Hazen feels the American Heart Association’s recommendation for five eggs a week is reasonable.

[@covergirlx2i5]

Darn. I wish I could use that letter from the egg people in my research paper.

[@mowthpeece1]

I own stock in pharma. Keep eating eggs and meat, people. It's good for my bottom line.

[@thecelticgiraffe]

Does the high Choline in Brussel Sprouts, Broccoli, Kidney Beans, and Mushrooms have this same effect of producing TMAO?

[@iamthebadwolf7296]

No, try watching the video? 😂

[@lui4789]

Why does choline make my brain feel so good then. I was vegan 7 years, whole foods and healthy foods mostly. Organic and all. My body felt pretty good, but my brain and energy levels were lacking something. Tried a choline supplement, then eggs again, and its like my brain started firing again normally. I have long lasting mental focus that I didn't have at all during vegan. I feel better overall. Im feeling torn after this video, but at the same time I need to listen to my body. I eat super healthy, so should I really be tripping about a couple eggs a day? Most of my meals are vegan still, lots of veg and fruit every day.

[@botzer8817]

Are you sure it's the choline content? Why didn't you try supplementing instead?

[@fabianovaranda9847]

So, what should vegans do about their choline intake?

[@mikeford5080]

Ray Kurzweil has been saying he takes phosphatidyl choline as an anti aging supplement. Is this also a danger for prostate and other cancers?

[@umesh3077]

Sir ,I want to see ur lab reports like insulin level,ogtt, lipid profile and inflammatory markers and coronary calcium scan

[@shanecarawayfitness]

I would also question if the meat was natural. There are so many unaccounted for variables here.

[@FaithflNdscreet]

what kind of diet should cancer patients have then? if consumption of choline ultimately causes the cancer to spread, then you shouldn't have a diet high in protein and fat (ketogenic diet) because most of your food is going to be meat and eggs, and one would think that would be the best diet to cut off cancer cell's food source, glucose, to starve them to death. Would these negative effects of carnitine and choline even matter if there's no food source (glucose) for cancer cells to grow (on a ketogenic diet)? more research is needed

[@usernamegoeshere999]

Honestly, if you believed ketogenic diets to be the best diet for cutting off glucose to cancer, then you would be wise to employ a vegan ketogenic diet. All of the "positives" of a ketogenic diet, with the positives of a vegan diet, with none of the negatives of meat, eggs, and dairy. www.reddit.com/r/veganketo/

[@jonguy12321]

I hadn't seen that but thanks.

[@AstralS7orm]

But the problem is that all the studies point that eating everything in moderation is not good for you. For example, eating trans fats in moderation is not low enough to be good.

[@sportydiver]

We need cholesterol to make pregnenolone. You need choline for brain function. We need carnitine for neurological function. If your DHEA level is low you are succeptable to prostate problems. The problem is eating the corn fed sick cow. CLA fat in animals helps prevent cancer. The canola and pufa especially heated is the problem. The nurse at the vegan group here died from a brain tumor. Get the facts straight with eating the proper foods. Get off the grains,beans and refined food. Where are you getting carnosine, phosphoralated serine, D- Ribose

[@someguy2249]

sportydiver Yes, you need those things. But your body needs them. You also need blood, but you don't need to drink it, because you make it.

[@qwe098qwe098qwe098]

Thanks for another amazing video. Because of it, I'm going to stick to my almost vegan diet.

[@uncleho4999]

why has it been reported in sports science research that L-Carnitine is beneficial to heart health due to thermogenesis?

[@FlashManinSpace]

Uncle Ho snake oil salesmen have a large catalog of other magical products to sell. Especially that magical waste product like whey. Usually they would just flush that down the drain but you know those salesmen can't pass off a good con.

[@Mordecai06]

Money

[@sabaghani4611]

so u take carnitine supplements with every meal. I have a deficiency ...what do you say about that ? I am taking it to avoid heart disease... what do you suggest ? am I harming myself or helping ?

[@shanecarawayfitness]

That explains why all aboriginal people die from cancer. Right? I see and hear a lot of "we think", "we hypothesized", "possibly", "Might", etc.

[@LordOfDhara]

Shane Caraway that's mostly what science is... educated conjecture. If you dont like it go read fiction.

[@dkcb7]

And why are they selling choline capsules if it causes prostate cancer? Bit of contradictory.

[@emilyk.4582]

He fails to mention the known benefits of choline. It is considered essential, and deficiency has side effects! Choline benefits the brain, cell structure, nervous system, muscles, and yes, the heart. Like all other things, simply do not go overboard, as this can be harmful in any case (for example, too much vitamin A can harm the system).

[@emailjwr]

Emily K. Lots of plant foods have choline, vegans have no shortage of it. The point is, vegans don't have the gut biome to make TMAO from dietary choline.

[@SWilkin676]

There are some women who have genetic mutations that cause them to become short of choline after menopause. They don't recycle choline properly and get organ disfunction if they eat a choline deficit diet. This mutation is especially prevalent in women who descend from ancestors from NC.

[@tonycollyweston6182]

can you point to studies on this matter

[@SWilkin676]

www.jbc.org/content/286/2/1649.full

[@SWilkin676]

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2518394/

[@finmanau]

Thanks Dr amazing info

[@sportydiver]

Hey smarty pants, are you a low fat vegan? lots of Mcdougall rice and beans? 100lbs of fruit per week? lots of quinnoa and grains and Tempeh? lots of kale and seaweed?please tell me what does a person with your superior knowledge eat?

[@andybillmore3553]

So what if you just eat the egg whites and not the yolks? Have any studies been done on that? Using Google I found an article saying that most of the choline is in the egg yolks not the whites. I eat 4 egg whites every morning. I buy free range omega 3 eggs. Should I cut eggs out completely? Anyone have any thoughts about egg whites?

[@Chattenoire7]

Thanks for this important information, Dr. Greger! Keep it coming!

[@sportydiver]

Let me help here. saturated fat= stable. unsaturated=unstable. Thus unstable fats become OXIDIZED. OXIDIZED cholesterol= artherosclerosis. Ansel keys study is bogus. We didn't have this problem in america prior to the USDA program saying sat fat is bad and veg oils are good. The lady at Whole Foods took his course and is very experienced and intelligent. Don't bash because you are frustrated. I even followed the 80/10/10 diet for a full year and 100%raw. you live it and learn it......

[@imgingi]

How about organic / antibodies free eggs? Does it make any difference?

[@MKM4ever]

Lecithine seems to do the same as carnitine and it's in soy foods, lecithin supplements etc

[@liaptohides2222]

So is it safe to take l'carnitine for weight loss.....?

[@Frolova3434]

So what about choline for vegans? You said we need to get some choline from nutrition but in plants there is very little choline

[@finelinerin]

Es ist genug Cholin in Pflanzen: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choline#Food_sources_of_choline =)

[@destroya3303]

I love eggs, cheese and butter, yum

[@whatthefunction9140]

that's like saying, I love standing on train tracks, waiting to get hit.

[@destroya3303]

Dylan T more like saying I like driving my car, and yes driving carries some chance of an accident. But no need to overdo the panic... "Ahhhhh Choline run for your liveessssss"

[@destroya3303]

Dylan T If you are even alive to see my funeral

[@whatthefunction9140]

Des Troya oh I wouldn't miss it.

[@destroya3303]

Dylan T You will if you are dead already

[@michaelsprawson3704]

It seems to me that the great disturber is sugar, was this factored in to the research?

[@Lansvacer]

amazing.

[@houndjog]

I thought L-carnitine was good for weight loss? Should I toss those supplements??

[@illmaticstatic37]

So no meat, no dairy, no eggs? What exactly am I supposed to eat then?

[@nini.purple]

+illmaticstatic37 www.pinterest.com/explore/vegan-recipes/

[@illmaticstatic37]

+Nin Aries In this past year I've already become a vegetarian and soon to be vegan :D

[@nini.purple]

yaaay :D

[@venzoah]

illmaticstatic37 Lol, there's so much food other than those three things. Ever hear of bread, beans, vegetables, fruit and rice? There's a whole world of food out there. many cultures are centered around plant based diets. We Americans are just so brainwashed and taught to only eat animal products.

[@nini.purple]

***** :)

[@umesh3077]

I have two questions ,how carnitin can reach into colon .as carnitin is made up of methionine and glycine.it disintegrate into methionine and glycine in upper small intestine that's basic biochemistry.2 our small intestine and colonel mucosa sheds cells every 3 days cells r made up of phosphitidyle choline .and that may be more than we consume .

[@danmustlearn]

Are they eating the entire boiled egg? or just the egg whites?

[@AstralS7orm]

Uh, nevermind, it's actually protective against choline-induced damage by TMAO. Panaceum, just as science says.

[@SubmitTheKraken]

how about acetylcholine inhibitors ?

[@Ben-gp2fi]

Top, it fears one. Too bad, if you know more about AcH and their benefits. Hope the infos aren't true. :-( I can live easly without meat, but without choline, l-carnite and eggs?

[@sportydiver]

Too many studies, too many conflicting conclusions. Gabriel cousens now says Vegans deficient in choline,carnitine,carnosine. I became lethargic and lost muscle with my own 2 year experiment. low iron even. I stopped all grain and some proper animal. Dr. amen even has a new diet program very similar to my own. Sat fat good oil bad. We need to form a new group that can put it all together and get it right

[@AstralS7orm]

Oh, forgot about the source in the paper: "Influence of Donor Pretreatment With N-Acetylcysteine on Ischemia/Reperfusion Injury in Rat Kidney Grafts." DOI: 10.1097/01.ju.0000103928.64939.6a Not quite as strong as I'd like, but there it is.

[@kaisenwah8621]

Can intake of sunflower lecithin contribute to cancer?

[@con.k]

So is it the blood choline or it being converted to TMAO?

[@Phronesis7]

The very same reason Choline is associated with Cancer is the same one for Folate and Cancer. BOTH help the development and of cells! Isn't cancer just uncontrolled cell growth? Neither nutrient has become evil because of that link. The reason cancer develops in the first place is because of the imbalance in our diet and lifestyles today. Why hasn't anyone asked why people in other parts of the world that eat meat like its going out of style are far healthier than vegetarians here?!

[@FatIncinerator12]

Unfortunately I can not stop the energy drinks.

[@backintobalance9542]

I offset free-radicals by taking a good range of antioxidant supplements and eat eggs and meat in moderation and mostly veg and no grains. No lectins much. Everyone reacts differently to food and no one is Biochemically the same. Metabolic typing.

[@derBreunig]

I find it more easy to cut these products out completley. Some taste verry good, so if you remember the taste well, it might be a little harder to not eat them again.

[@Phronesis7]

You have to look at the entire picture: You are made to eat AND exercise. Very few of these types of studies will look at the effectiveness of exercise because its hard to do so. Of course fat, toxins, etc will build up if you don't exercise enough but you won't hear that being cited enough. Its easier to just blame it on another food group. Why does no-one ask what happens in countries where people eat gluten, meat, eggs, etc like its going out of style but people are still far healthier??

[@sportydiver]

You reference studies on mice and monkeys we are not hybrid monkey rats. please read the skinny on fats and Weston A price. He made observations. Although not your typical modern study. The recent doctors publish their updated information to HELP. Have some coconut oil and ghee

[@erentheca]

"Blaming cholesterol for heart diesease is something like blaming firefighters for starting fires." -Dr. Mary Enig

[@user-fi4rn6hr4r]

@@beautifullife4406 unsaturated oil not cholesterol.

[@vidfreak56]

LOL we need choline, so this makes no sense, nor does it actually say anything concrete. We dont know exactly what the numbers are for choline intake. So this is just scare mongering. 1 egg a day is, by far, let alone 2 eggs is not even 1/2 of the RDA of choline for men (550 mg which is only adequate intake and is a guess for lack of data). Meat diets and cancer? Our ancestors ate lots of meat protein. Well more than 150-250+ grams a day some people claim. That's certainly far more than i eat (i get about 60-120 grams on any given day). So if meat is so bad, then it must have been so bad for millions of years. They must have had prostate cancer even way back then. Choline is in all cells, not just cancer cells. The fact that its concentrated is irrelevant and doesn't prove it causes cancer to begin with.

[@clearwaterlakota8405]

vidfreak56 - Ancient ancestors almost all died at an age before they even had a chance to develop cancer, so there is no point in using them as a guideline for eating meat. There is little modern evidence to support eating meat, especially not in the quantities consumed by most Americans. Aside from the health implications for individuals, there is a high environmental cost associated with commercial meat production, and quite a number of other issues as well. Eat meat if you want, it's none of my business, I'm just stating what is currently known about the cost of such a diet.

[@vidfreak56]

***** Not true. Many lived till a very old age. No one has any clear evidence that all of them died young (while certainly many of them did). There's plenty of evidence that eating meat is fine as long as you don't eat lots of saturated fats. Our ancestors probably ate diets with less SF given the animals they hunted. And most Americans get a lot more protein than they need. They overconsume on many macro nutrients. High environmental costs? To some degree this is true, but we have no long term data suggesting anything that will result from meat farming. A lot of the health costs to eating meat have to do with eating too much of it (and how its produced and whats put in it), not that people eat it at all.

[@clearwaterlakota8405]

vidfreak56 I agree with most of what you've said. My only disagreement is in regard to the environmental cost, which I think has plenty of hard evidence already. And I think you would agree on this, that it's not so much THAT meat is produced, it's HOW it's produced that causes problems. I recently watched a fascinating documentary about soil carbon capture, in essence it says that by changing how crop and pasture lands are managed, we could greatly reduce the amount of the CO2 increase caused by burning fossil fuels. Livestock are a key component of this process. So I'm not one of those extremists who screams "meat is murder" or anything. Just concerned about the amount and type of meat people consume, which seems to be in line with your thinking as well. On a totally personal level, I have trouble with eating animals. It feels a bit cannibalistic, as w are so closely related. But that's just the way my mind works and I don't foist that on anyone else.

[@vidfreak56]

***** WEll it is clear that it's probably CO2 thats causing it. Or at least that's what most of the scientific models point to. The problem is what to do about it. I agree that changing the way we do things is a must, but how we get others to change is going to be tricky. As far as murdering animals (which is what animal farmers do), i think animal deaths should be quick and painless and am all for new slaughter technology to make that happen. Also realistic laws to prevent cruelty (which are lacking by far in many states im sure).

[@ilienicolae]

vidfreak56 plese do experiments yourself !

[@leo333333able]

A lot of talk about eggs. Not so much about all the veg that contains high choline. The last number is choline content [from wikipedia] Broccoli 1 pound 454g 182 Cauliflower 1 pound 454g 177 Firm tofu 2 cups 470mL (2 cups) 142 Uncooked quinoa 1 cup 1 cup 119 Soybeans dry 100g 116 Large hardboiled egg 1 1 113 Spinach 1 pound 454g 113 Cooked kidney beans 2 cups 2 cups 108 typical greger. [interesting TMAO stuff though]

[@NaomiMordi]

Hmm. From 3:21 he does pose the question of whether or not we should worry about choline (as well as carnitine) in vegetables. Apparently not, since vegans did not form much TMAO after eating the steak as mentioned. Typical Thou Art That? Lol.

[@NaomiMordi]

Hmm. From 3:21 he does pose the question of whether or not we should worry about choline (as well as carnitine) in vegetables. Apparently not, since vegans did not form much TMAO after eating the steak as mentioned. Typical Thou Art That? Lol.

[@leo333333able]

ahh..yes good point. [i'd gotten so used to greger'e one sided vids...just jumped on that without cause]

[@LauraLM]

+Thou Art That I think they don't know ...according to this study Choline improves liver functions and normalizes cholesterol levels www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24368431

[@leo333333able]

Laura LM It's all so complicated :)

[@wizardatmath]

You'd better follow the biome path and find why an essential nutrient like choline is metabolised into poison. Limiting choline can not be the answer.

[@ratherrapid]

choline and fatty liver, Doc?

[@AstralS7orm]

What picture is MyPlate based upon if not studies? Eating in moderation advice is not based upon anything. There might be no safe threshold for meat, alcohol, trans fat, other poisons. However, unsafe low levels of B12 can hamper hardcore vegans who dislike supplementation and some "vegan foods" (specifically fake meats/pates) are often just loaded with quite bad oils, e.g. corn or sunflower. These two factors are probably messing up survival studies, as outlined in another talk by dr Greger.

[@houndjog]

Dr. Wallace ....who has actually studied natural health whereas your typical 'Allopathic Doctor" does not - recommends eating 6 egg yolks a day for optimum health. The GOOD NEWS is we can all now eat eggs again!

[@Thurgor_Supreme]

LOL, I feel so foolish. I used to take choline supplements because it was the only supplement not included in my multi-vitamin.

[@silkhead44]

Intestinal alkaline phophatase (IAP)...if you're low in it stay away from steak and eggs...otherwise grass fed meat and free range eggs is safe and nutritious a few times a week...50% of your diet should be fruit and vegetables regardless...what kind of eggs were they?outside free range or factory...what kind of meat was it...grass fed or factory fed? Who funded the study?

[@Vegan_Truth]

Ok, make a video of you holding your degrees and say what you just said, and post it on KZbin. Anyone can say they're a doctor.

[@t1natran]

Not sure how confirmation of his degrees would change any of the facts presented.

[@walkingmonument]

It wasn't his studies idiot. I'd love to see Dr berg showing us where he gets his information instead of that stupid white board he has