CASUAL MAGIC feat. Shivam and Wheeler | Gilanra/Ravos VS Ghired VS Gnawbone VS Cadira

Check out Gamegenic's Bastion 100+XL: www.gamegenic.com/product/bas...
Bill: Ghired, Mirror of the Wilds - www.moxfield.com/decks/YmYCFo...
Jim: Old Gnawbone - www.moxfield.com/decks/GHxCL7...
Shivam: Cadira, Caller of the Small - archidekt.com/decks/6020502/c...
Ben: Gilanra & Ravos - www.moxfield.com/decks/U0Gbhy...
Check out our guests!
@bwheelermtg
www.twitch.tv/benjamin_wheeler
@casualmagicwithshivambhatt
linktr.ee/Elektrotal
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[@crypto727]

The fact Ben just openly and with no hesitation looked at the top of Bill’s library was wild and awesome as all hell

[@joedoe7572]

Completely

[@NathanJ666]

Was hoping Bill would do it right back at him when Ben played his own surveil land

[@hanfjord]

So *that's* the difference between casual and competitive commander!

[@irreleverent]

That's Ben Wheeler for you.

[@aether6293]

Also the slow turn to face the camera, chef's kiss

[@ngaydos]

That moment when you look at the Nylea's Intervention in the graveyard and the skies just completely filled with birds and think tron may not have been worth it.

[@TheSpikeFeeders]

You know what? I'd do it again.

[@nathanwiens108]

@@TheSpikeFeeders You would have needed the Tron mana just to be able to get the Intervention high enough to dent the birb flrample army. :P

[@jacobtrahan1993]

My favorite episode of spike feeders? The one where nesting dovehawk said “it’s nesting time!” And dovehawked all over the place

[@NorfDakoda]

One thing to note: Nesting Dovehawk does see itself enter the field if it itself is a token. This is similar to the effect of Kappa Cannoneer triggering off of its own ETB. It does not specify "other token".

[@markbrierley6367]

Came down to say this.

[@camoyuki]

Wheeler's cycling deck is actually really cool. I kind if want to build it. The lands are expensive, but everything else should be really cheap

[@jojobetzler3732]

You could change the duals with shocks and Survival of the Fittest with Fauna Shaman to get rid of the reserved list cards. The really big beef in the decklist are the cEDH staples (Solitude and the tutors), Flawless Maneuver and Moonshaker Cavalry. I don´t know how important the tutors are for the gameplan, but since Ben mentioned "You´ll see bad tutors with Demonic Tutor" he needs the black ones to find Emeria because it isn´t fetchable with landcycling and there are only two other all land fetchers in the deck.

[@camoyuki]

Hmm, yeah it seems like most of the expensive cards could be replaced easily enough except for the tutors, and I guess they would be pretty important. Not sure how to get around that other than proxies, lol

[@jojobetzler3732]

@@camoyuki Tbh I´m playing Commander only on TCC Discord so I don´t mind playing poxies in my decks. Most of my fresh built/inspired decks are proxies. I´ll give Grim and Diabolic Tutor a shot to "really" build the deck, but I´ll probably run it og with proxies.

[@kevinwestermann1001]

The classic podcast: Shivam and Wheeler love Casual Magic.😄

[@jarrodb2192]

the nylea intervention for those lands put a smile on my face lol

[@TheGrifcannon22]

The absolute banter this game! I love it!

[@SamErvin]

Sublime Archangel is sick. My Cadira deck usually wins with Overrun-type effects (so, going wide) but I love it in this build. I think a token copy of Nesting Dovehawk sees itself enter the battlefield, so each of Bill's Dovehawk tokens should have an additional +1/+1 counter... not that it mattered much in this game!

[@joedoe7572]

11:05 @Jim what a glorious move! 🤣🤩

[@10Pugz]

Jim did the same with the Nylea's Intervention at Elderdragon Hijinks and everyone has the same response XD

[@WayneyMTG]

Loved these decks, great seeing each one having it's own moment

[@starmanda88]

I’m not done watching but man this has been such an enjoyable game to watch so far. Can’t wait to see how it ends.

[@sorrocarpenter2662]

I mean this in the most loving way, when I hear Shivam’s laugh, I hear Blackbeard’s laugh from One Piece.

[@trotskysrevenge]

ok ben just looking at bill's top card got me laughing so hard

[@Duskraven377]

Never thought I'd see a spike like Shivam playing casual EDH... It's great that he's trying new formats and is keeping his mind open to other ways to have fun.

[@carlos_wrong]

Thank guys for putting Ghired's decklist in the description. Otherwise it would've been hard to know what's actually in the deck hahaha

[@hugmonger]

There is a Nesting Dovehawk in the deck

[@armadaonfire]

Bill definitely didn't do the populate things right but it sure as hell didn't matter one bit. Really interesting decks in this one, like it a lot!

[@Tsunamiis]

this is beautiful i love how yall cedh guys get the casual too like they say we dont

[@simonisphording]

Aren't the dovehawk tokens giving themselves a counter as well?

[@Sheer_Falacy]

Yup, they see themselves as a token creature entering the battlefield.

[@stellatedhexahedron6985]

love wheeler coming in to every casual commander game with the stupidest brew you've ever seen and winning half the time and almost not losing the other half.

[@Shadow298]

Wheeler's decks are always a hoot to see, he comes up with such unique ideas.

[@kevinwestermann1001]

Token copies of Nesting Dovehawk actually get a +1/+1 counter right away in the same vein as Kappa Cannoneer does.

[@jojobetzler3732]

I like Bens weird Emeria decks with cool restrictions. I hope we´ll see it poping of soon.

[@Guevon_Pajaro]

This was the silliest fun commander in a while, thanks for bringing the crazy shit in this game! Lol the tron lands, so many moments 😂😂 I had to double check the decklist for wheeler, I couldn't believe it. One of the best deck builders I know, what a DECK. 8 lands??? And it's amazing, actually an amazing deck build restriction / goal. Wow.

[@Guevon_Pajaro]

(also as a SAWLM fan, finally seeing Shivam's tokens deck I've heard so much about is amazing too.)

[@MtendoTheSkunk]

All these decks are wild! Especially Wheeler's 8 land deck! I had to check it out on Moxfield cause it's so bonkers to me to run so few lands and still be able to play a deck with that level of functionality!

[@baltosstrupelos302]

Gotta say, that's the longest 3 card combo win I've ever seen!

[@n1v0s]

I've done same nesting dovehawk shenanigans in my Ghired deck twice so seeing Bill pop off with made me go 'yep that looks familiar'

[@Bobbot2005]

17:35 yes, they are indeed artifacts! Molten duplication copies are artifacts in addition to their other types

[@WhiteWizard42]

I think Jim jokingly asked "are they artifacts" about the Dovehawk tokens- yes, they are! If you had some sort of artifact removal, it could've swept them away.

[@tsuruchibranwen8579]

Updoot for Jefferson Airplanes reference

[@CardboardLord]

Wheeler's hero moment was peak edh 😂

[@MrCrimAngel]

Bill tricked them by saying it was casual and bringing a solid 8+ to the table

[@TaylorKNelms]

I love how this brilliant way to create a deck that is nearly all gas because it lacks lands runs into the issue of "the gas I'm drawing is Wirewood Guardian"

[@shaden489]

so i think you were technically doing the dove hawk triggers wrong cause if you make a token copy of it it will see itself entering and trigger its own ability cause it is a token creature entering the battlefield. card definitely gets out of hand for sure so i dont blame ya for missing it

[@orsettomorbido]

4:15 looks like facepunch is back on the menu HAHAHAHAHAHA

[@henryoconnor7016]

Go ask Alice was a great touch

[@connorl0204]

In terms of size, are the gamegenic bastions the same size or slightly larger than utrapro boulders? How do they compare in price as well?

[@TheSpikeFeeders]

Here in Canada Boulders are $15.99 and Bastions are $19.99, so that's about $11.50 and $15.00 in USD. The bastion is bigger -- the same height and width, but they are deeper so they can accommodate double sleeved cards comfortably (or single sleeved cards with room for tokens).

[@connorl0204]

@@TheSpikeFeeders i learned two things today then! That apparently CAD is almost twice as strong as USD and that unfortunately bastions do not meet my gaming needs as they do not fit inside of my outer carrying deckbox. Unfortunate, as i was more than willing to give the bastion a try with my next purchase of deckboxes.

[@lightfut]

Casual commander folks ahoy!

[@poltergeistskateteam]

Where do you guys get those awesome dice?

[@TheSpikeFeeders]

We sell them in our shop! spikefeeders.com/shop

[@burningpapersun1]

I need to make another jim deck with the old gnawbone. I already have a Vial Smasher/sakashima with dream halls deck.

[@joedoe7572]

25:07 @Bill the Nesting Dovehawk with three counters should only have two, because of the previous -1/-1 counter

[@Tirantekk]

Love you Ben. Hope you’re doing good

[@wolffrost7611]

Can you make a video where you use a deck based on Toxrill, EDH level? Because i would like to see how the deck would work

[@kevinwestermann1001]

Could Wheeler have discarded one more card on turn 6 during clean-up by NOT casting the Arcane Signet?

[@joedoe7572]

Good point!

[@jojobetzler3732]

I think the triome was his last cycling card in hand, because he didn't cycle many "draw a card" cyclers and cycling away the triome clearly screwed up his whole deckstrategy. Shivam kind of misplayed with keeping Cadira back, because it had indestructible and he could have put preasure on Bills board to get rid of some tokens, so Wheeler maybe could clear all of them. But it's easy to say after seeing the turns of Wheeler and Bill.

[@kevinwestermann1001]

@@jojobetzler3732 The Archfiend, like all Amonkhet cards, triggers off of any discard, though. Not only cycling.

[@hugmonger]

This episode was silly an i enjoyed it.

[@matteobagni1235]

Dovehawk is nutty, Ratadrabrik loves it

[@thenamedoesnotmatter]

17:20 the First Nesting Dovehawk (From the Molten Duplication) should have 4 counters on it, same as the nontoken Nesting, the rest should have 3, 2, and 1 +1/+1 Counters on them. Since the trigger does not specify "another" it will see itself enter and will trigger itself upon entry. 19:46 You don't resolve your Free votes part of the spell until after you finish resolving your Wild votes part of your spell. 24:32 at this point there should be 4 Dovehawks. 1 with a -1/-1 Counter, 1 with no counters, and the last 2 both with a +1/+1 counter. 28:12 at this point there should be 7 Dovehawks still, not 5. Also Rishkar's Expertise should be at draw 7. Note: None of these misplays had any impact on the outcome of the game or any decision any player made during the course of the game. Be kind because Magic is complicated. If I've made an error anywhere please correct me.

[@TheOnlyOrk]

wow that bird got out of hand. no wonder ive not been able to find one

[@STS-qi1qy]

Can't wait to see Gnawbone versus Olivia.

[@mrTjstephens1]

So everyone except Olivia play old Gnawbones?

[@Slagomancer]

Wheeler's deck is incredible

[@alexgorbatov6938]

Where do you all get the big dice from?

[@alexmcgregor8658]

Are you asking who our supplier is or how to order them from our shop?

[@connorl0204]

Just as a heads up, i think a token of nesting dovehawk will see itself as it enters and thus enter with a 1/1 counter.

[@connorl0204]

603.6a

[@floydyutiamco]

You advetise the deck box but the link doesn't show any prices or the ability to buy them

[@joedoe7572]

All _This_ is why watching Spike Feeders play casual is way better than precons or cEDH

[@jakemitchell7264]

molten duplication gives the creature token haste, and subsequent copies of the token would also have haste, yes?

[@Natedogg2]

No. Molten Duplication creates the token, then gives the token haste. It's not created with haste The haste is not part of the copiable characteristics, so the token copies would not have haste.

[@CodenameJD]

If I had a nickel for every time Wheeler had built a commander deck with 8 lands in it, I'd have two nickels, which isn't a lot but it's weird that it happened twice.

[@Wabajck]

Behold the power of decks not playing board wipes

[@joedoe7572]

23:32 @BenWheeler why didn't you leave Noble Templar on top of your library, to cycle into it off the Indatha Triome and then cycle it for free, which would have killed another Nesting Dovehawk?

[@jasonmolisani1864]

Not to speak for Wheeler, but what really needed to happen was killing ALL the Dovehawk tokens. As long as even 1 tokens remained, Bill, whose turn was next, would make at least 2 more tokens. Wheeler had already burned most of his cyclers, so cleaning the few that survived and the next generation they spawned was just not going to happen on a future turn. Highrolling one topdecked normal cycler that turn after binning Noble Templar was far more likely than next turn top decking a cycler and chaining 3 or 4 more to clear all the new tokens.

[@tprocroi]

Molten duplication grants the token haste (as an ability), so all the tokens Bill made all have haste (permanently)

[@thenamedoesnotmatter]

Haste is not a defined characteristic of the token generated by the Duplication. Being an Artifact is however. The spell grants the created token haste as it resolves. The Populated Dovehawks would not have haste. If I'm wrong please correct me.

[@tprocroi]

Hmm you might be right. I was thinking of these two, which /do/ apply to a token created (and populated) by Kiki-Jiki for example. Especially the second reference uses the verb “gains”, which is why I think all the tokens populated would gain haste… but perhaps only the first set would get “haste until end of turn”? 110.5b The spell or ability that creates a token may define the values of any number of characteristics for the token. This becomes the token's "text." The characteristic values defined this way are functionally equivalent to the characteristic values that are printed on a card; for example, they define the token's copiable values. A token doesn't have any characteristics not defined by the spell or ability that created it. 706.9a Some copy effects cause the copy to gain an ability as part of the copying process. This ability becomes part of the copiable values for the copy, along with any other abilities that were copied.

[@guico33]

It would just say "with haste" if it was meant to be a permanent characteristic of the token.

[@trizkit995]

No board wipes?

[@filipbojanowski1299]

I would say that Archfiend of Ifnir does count as a board wipe, it did really a lot

[@09419]

So hear me out azorious tokens with nest dovehawk, astral dragon, and cathars crusade.

[@maxbodifee3263]

🕊 I'm looking for a place to nest. No don't worry, it's just me. Well come on in then, little birdie Hitchcock: birds 2

[@PartTimeEuphoRia]

Why does it make so much sense for sol talisman to have been in olivias hands

[@thomaslindhardt9136]

I think i might be playing dumpstet fire magic

[@isnilalune]

Cadira my fav commander, she can win games very fast, but in a slow honest way. wonder how they built her.

[@thomaswren8508]

I cant find swlm anymore since google podcasts shut down, what happened

[@TheSpikeFeeders]

Can't really say about the Google issue but if you're looking for where to find episodes this link is a decent place to start sites.libsyn.com/460224

[@Xalyn937]

Wheeler's deck is so interesting! But man nesting dovehawk is just disgusting.

[@stormtrooperjeepjk]

Shivam only gives 5 treasures correct?

[@maxbodifee3263]

No Jim did 9 damage. Life total doesn't matter in this case

[@ElDocBruh]

Holy crap Wheeler's deck is running all the garbage cyclers I have in Ellie and Alan. Nobody ever expects the Wirewood Guardian!

[@quayo90]

I’m 2 weeks late! That’s on me 😅

[@staxtree]

Those giant dice!!

[@connorl0204]

Its common knowledge that bunnies get eaten by birds.

[@Guevon_Pajaro]

Ngl, I kind of hate doves and birds now. Never want to see that card again, it's traumatic

[@alexmcgregor8658]

Like this comment to nest your dovehawk

[@fridayfreed7287]

I liked this comment and my Dovehawk is buying a Gamegenic Bastion?

[@TheSpikeFeeders]

SOLID AS A HAWK 🤘🤘🤘

[@Jidayun]

I do enjoy nesting my dovehawk

[@benjamin78987]

caaw

[@OGtrillionaire]

in some states you can get arrested for doing that in public

[@MajorHorrigan]

casual canadian highlander?

[@matthewbailey1850]

HOW DOES BENS DECK WORK HOW DO YOU GUARENTEE YOU CAN HAVE A STARTING HAND

[@CovalentNetworkSolid]

Land cyclers

[@joedoe7572]

Serum Powder, I assume

[@bwheelermtg]

Mulligan aggressively, take advantage of the free draw + 2 commanders

[@thearcenist]

​@@bwheelermtg do you stop at one land or always try for two? Is living death the big payoff?

[@bwheelermtg]

@@thearcenistIf I have a 1 lander that can find my second or a mana rock I'll keep. The payoff is getting to do cool shit

[@kylecarson3318]

What a game

[@cuppadirt]

Token copies of nesting dovehawk see themselves etb.

[@hanschristopherson8056]

Wheeler just loves trash cards 😂

[@jacenchrisbaker]

Casual Magic...but during the intro Ben's front facing card is effin Survival. 😂

[@joedoe7572]

It was definitely being used casually

[@Zenith118]

The c in cEDH is silent

[@lunameyers7093]

Meow

[@woopertrainer]

Casual but the decks are $5000 😂

[@zsorens4570]

Tbf its only the single deck and you cut Gaia's cradle (say put in a growing rights of itlimoc)and 3 duel lands and you now cut ~2 grand off the cost. You could probably overhaul the entire land base to drop another hefty chunk of the cost.

[@joedoe7572]

It may have been $5,000, but it definitely was casual

[@woopertrainer]

@@joedoe7572 which is crazy lol

[@alexmcgregor8658]

​@woopertrainer you think Bill is bad? My cEDH ashling list is like $74K. www.moxfield.com/decks/-TqGe-XGNEyz5y5Tg6qaZA

[@EternalRoxas]

I've noticed this in the past too but doesn't Wheeler go by he/they pronouns?

[@TheSpikeFeeders]

I have also seen him list he/they but when I asked him for this he said he/him!

[@EternalRoxas]

@@TheSpikeFeeders good to know! Great episode too 😁

[@Zerschnitzler77]

"casual".....nice .....