Why Do Conifers Rule the North?

This time of year, many people are bringing conifers into their homes to decorate. For many of us, they symbolize the winter season. But it’s easy to take these trees for granted-where do these pine, spruce, fir, and their relatives come from? Why do they dominate the frozen fringes of the far north in Siberia and Canada, as well as high mountains? How do they endure a winter colder than any other tree can?
Video sources:
Daniel Davis (self)
Image sources:
Wikipedia commons
Information Sources:
Fog Collection on Plant Surfaces and Biomimetic Applications. Mathematics and Natural Sciences Department, University of Bonn. MD Abul Kalam Azad, January 2016.
T. E. Dawson (September 1998). "Fog in the California redwood forest: ecosystem inputs and use by plants". Oecologia. 117 (4): 476-485.
Stewart T. Schultz (1990). The Northwest Coast: A Natural History. Portland, Oregon, Timber Press.
Waring, RH, and JF Franklin. (1979). Evergreen coniferous forests of the Pacific Northwest. Science 204: 1380-1386.
Waring, RH, (1982) Land of the giant conifers. Natural History 91(10):54-63.
Analysis of Freeze-Thaw Embolism in Conifers. The Interaction between Cavitation Pressure and Tracheid Size
Jarmila Pittermann and John S. Sperry
Elegance versus Speed: Examining the Competition between Conifer and Angiosperm Trees
Timothy J. Brodribb, Jarmila Pittermann, and David A. Coomes
“Although unambiguous Pinaceae are not known before the Late Jurassic, fossils of putative stem members of the family appear during the Triassic and possibly as early as the Late Permian”
Ovulate Cones of Schizolepidopsis ediae sp. nov. Provide Insights into the Evolution of Pinaceae
Kelly K. S. Matsunaga, Patrick S. Herendeen, Fabiany Herrera, Niiden Ichinnorov, Peter R. Crane, and Gongle Shi
Fertile Coniferophyte Remains from the Late Triassic Deep River Basin, North Carolina. T. Delevoryas and R. C. Hope. American Journal of Botany
Early evolution in the Pinaceae. Charles N. Miller Jr. Review of Palaeobotany and Palynology.
Pollination Biology, Leslie Real, December 2012.
Simonin KA, Roddy AB (January 2018). "Genome downsizing, physiological novelty, and the global dominance of flowering plants". PLOS Biology

[@freetibet1000]

It is interesting to notice that here in Scandinavia the last tree to give up on high altitude and harsh conditions is not the pine or the spruce but the silver birch. The higher you climb a mountain here the shorter and more twisted the birch become until it is literally crawling on the ground like a carpet. These trees are known to be several thousand years old at the root system. Every now and then you will also find a twisted old pine among the many dwarf birch trees on these high altitudes. Because of the generally harsh climate here in Scandinavia trees do not grow above the 900 meter elevation line here. But you will only find a thick carpet of silver birch hugging the ground no higher than 20-30 cm above ground. The leaves are tiny compare to the siblings on lower elevations but I believe they are considered to be the same species all the same. In the extreme northern regions a short and twisted version of the silver birch dominate completely, even on lower elevations close to the sea.

[@A-yl3pd]

I recall that silver birch was one of the first trees that colonised the world (excluding Antarctica) after the ice age I find it a really cool and interesting tree

[@Gandalf-The-Green]

Now that you mention it, I remember learning that once you go above the treeline you can actually still find several species of willow (like alpine willow) on mountains all over the northern hemisphere and far into the arctic circle. They are low growing shrubs, but you could still technically say that willows are the trees that both grow closest to the water's edge, and furthest up the mountain.

[@neillcoetzer9133]

Do you know where I can find photos of these? I'm quite interested

[@freetibet1000]

@@Gandalf-The-Green Yes, we do have large areas of a type of willow that grow like that right on the tree-line here in Scandinavia. They sometimes make an almost impenetrable barrier in the alpine landscape. The leaves are silvery-green with furry texture and willow-like in shape. The seem to prefer a wetter type of ground and is often seen along rivers and creeks on the mountains. They rarely grow taller than 2,5 meters but can be a formidable barrier to go through. They very often grow alongside the alpine silver birch around here.

[@davidrh74]

​@@freetibet1000We have the same willows that like the same conditions in the Rocky Mountains in Colorado. The mooses love them. They eat them and hide in them. Sometimes they'll pop out of the brush close to you and give you quite a scare.

[@casualearth9076]

1. To keep the scope narrow, I did not discuss fire ecology, extremely cold-tolerant angiosperms, gymnosperms that aren’t conifers and their cold tolerance, and the more complicated history of angiosperm-conifer competition through the Mesozoic and Cenozoic. 2. To clarify the hypothesis about the origin of the Pinaceae: the hypothesis is essentially that pinaceae have a high altitude origin-that they may have gained some traits to adapt to cold, and that these traits were maintained but provided negligible benefit at low altitudes until a cooling trend during the Miocene, culminating in severe cooling during the Quaternary. Mapping mountain ranges in the Mesozoic is difficult, but we know that rift mountains and volcanism were present where the Atlantic was forming (via rifting of the continents). Some of the highest peaks on our planet today are isolated volcanic mountains, but identifying these in a geologic record is difficult. By the Late Jurassic, Scotland actually wasn’t very mountainous-but this still fits into the argument. If they originated in this general region earlier, they would have more easily dispersed into adjacent lowlands by the Late Jurassic-the adjacency is the argument. An even more complicated factor in arguments about Mesozoic paleogeography is climate. It’s often repeated “we know the Triassic was hot because there were no ice sheets and limited glaciers”. While we have plenty of reason to believe the Triassic was warmer overall than today, severe seasonal temperature fluctuations were likely. The lack of glaciation likely has more to do with continental orientation (see my “Why is the Arctic Asymmetric”? video) and the prevailing monsoon climate (wet summer, dry winter). Even if the Triassic had a much lower CO2 concentration and very severe winters, it would be difficult for glaciers to form on Pangaea. Extent of glaciation, on its own, is a very incomplete way to determine temperature. Winters would have been exceptionally dry on the supercontinent, and combined with high altitude this is a recipe for severe diurnal temperature fluctuation-nights much colder than the day. Winter monsoon winds in East Asia today bring much cooler temperatures well into the tropics. Altogether, I think we have reason to believe high altitudes in the Mesozoic weren’t necessarily balmy, and the pinaceae may have originated in these harsh environments, before spreading to nearby regions and eventually taking over the boreal northern hemisphere in the Quaternary.

[@benmiller3358]

I would love to show you some areas of fire recovery in Northern California

[@briseboy]

@@benmiller3358 INtrroducing succession ignores teh evolutionary advent of angiosperms, which is relevant to the topic of plant adaptations. Some tomorrow, one must infer from yor reply, a different adaptation might occur; but the implicit presumption that forest or habitat succession will be frozen in habitats recovering from fire IS ridiculous.

[@aaronmarks9366]

Super impressive detail given here

[@ulrikschackmeyer848]

Fabulous. Pray continue.

[@benmiller3358]

@@briseboy All I said is "I would like to show [video creator] some areas of fire recovery and you... decided to have an argument with yourself? I dunno what you're even trying to say here.

[@anderjohmetallica]

Wow, lots of advantages I never considered. The tracheid size advantage and the fog advantage were completely new to me. And the idea that poor soil favors conifers because they don't need as much nutrients for all the leaf turnover is amazing. Thanks for the video!

[@Weathernerd27]

I always wondered why the West was mostly conifers and the East was mostly decidous trees, the dry summer and pacific coast fog explain the situation. When I was young I thought conifers only grew in really cold places but there parts of California that have conifer forest that are much warmer than the deciduous forests back east. California is interesting you find conifer forests on the foggy coastline but go a little bit inland and you find deciduous forests, then once you gain a few thousand feet of altitude you are back into the conifer forest. I live in Seattle now and the forest is mostly conifers but near the rivers/wetlands you can find large groves of deciduous trees. Same thing in Alaska the forest is mostly conifer but you can find some big groves of decidous trees near rivers and wetlands.

[@Mars-ev7qg]

Small groves of pine trees can be found growing in areas with exceptionally poor soil as far south as Florida. These areas are sometimes called pine barrens because hardly any other plants grow in the pine barrens. One of the largest and most well-known pine barrens is found in the state of New Jersey. Although the winter in New Jersey is far colder then it is in Florida most forests in New Jersey are dominated by flowering trees such as oak and maple. The soil under the New Jersey pine barrens is sandy and low on nutrients. On the other hand maple trees are surprisingly hardy. Along river and lake shores maple trees can be found growing as far north as Alaska.

[@Wyi-the-rogue]

As a Florida dude they show up literally everywhere

[@jonne7725]

Something to consider is that pines has a tendency to poison the earth under them by reducing the ph of the soil if i remember right

[@thefrogstronaut]

Lots of small pine barrens in western NY as well, usually find them isolated on the tops of hills, I know of a few that are former tree farms.

[@Mars-ev7qg]

@Wyi-the-rogue well that explains the huge fire in Florida back in 1998. That was the fire that jumped over I 95. Of course, this fire is best remembered for the banana incident. Firefighters tried to put out a call for donations of bandanas. Some fool instead reported that the firefighters desperately needed bananas. Hundreds of trucks of donations flooded the firefighting camps with thousands of bananas.

[@Svensk7119]

When swamps become bogs become ponds become meadows, even in the middle of an oaken forest say, the first tree to fill in the meadow is a pine of some kind.

[@moanamason2454]

Thanks, mate. Great educational video. In NZ they aren't just taking over the mountainous high ground but are taking over everywhere, even the warm areas in the north. They grow extremely fast here due to the mild climate. Another major issue is the timber industry, which has encouraged the clearing of native bush to replace with monoculture pine plantations which then produce wildling pines that start to take over the surrounding native like a fast moving cancer.

[@rajahua6268]

One wonder if it is at all a good idea. Maybe it's too late now?

[@moanamason2454]

@rajahua6268 I don't think it's a good idea. I don't think any kind of mono culture is a good idea. The government has started to poison the wildling pines to try and stop them taking over what little native we have left, but I don't really think poison is a good idea either. It should be the people who own the plantations paying to have the unwanted wildling pines removed imo. It's never too late. If they can plant hectares of the trees, they can definitely have a team working to remove the wildling pine.

[@DG-iw3yw]

Thats what happens here in scotland. No natural forests left. Only the surrounding ecology was razed a long time ago, theres nothing left for the pine plantations to compete with...

[@vermicelledecheval5219]

It really seems NZ was some kind of ecological experimental disaster equivalent to Australia but with even far worst consequences...

[@FreeSpeechXtremist]

​@@DG-iw3ywthe British Ilse have been stripped of their forests multiple times by humans and replanted. Even the ancient Epping forest was mostly planted and managed by humans even on the oldest oak trees there is evidence of coppicing. There is no such thing as wild ancient forest in the UK one of the things that makes our landscape unique.

[@andvil01]

There are exceptions. In Scandinavia and Kamtjatka birch is the altitude limit tree.

[@DG-iw3yw]

Birch is sexy and i wont lie

[@matiasluukkanen7718]

Even Himalayas have high-altitude birch forests.

[@andvil01]

@@matiasluukkanen7718 Where? I was just i Nepal, Annapurna circuit. The tree limit was corniferus there.

[@nerminheldic9783]

On the contrary some conifers thrive in hot and dry regions like Mediterranean (the stone pine and the Aleppo pine).

[@danwylie-sears1134]

Thank you for not dumbing it down. That applies to language as well as content: I like learning new vocabulary.

[@harriehausenman8623]

So true! I had to stop and go back a few seconds and just "take-in" some of the ideas (like the fog drip - didn't know about that).

[@johnperic6860]

Something worth noting is that conifers are substantially more fire-resistant and dependent and therefore do well in sub-tropical and tropical environments (like Indonesia or Florida), where fires are frequent.

[@karsinds]

Pines are native and widespread in mediterranean climates (warm and dry), and some species of pines are well adapted to subtropical environmments like Pinus Caribaea in the Caribbean. So conifers are not exclusive of cold climates.

[@Smeiksmeiksmeik]

there is a theory of evolution regarding extreme cold adaptations wich also help in extreme dry areas in mammals not plants (camels, horses/donkeys and goats) - kinda interesting how these patterns appear completely unrelated

[@bugrakaanaknc5218]

the dry summer situation mentioned in the video is probably why mediterranean conifers do well here

[@dannyboy-vtc5741]

Aleppo or silver pine is also warm climate pine widely spread in the med. But you also have the black oak, or mediterranean oak with small leaves and generally much smaller than other oak species, that's the thing tho, species, be it flora or fauna adapt to the climate and geography in general.

[@Swarm509]

@@Smeiksmeiksmeik As things get very cold they tend to get quite dry (if i recall the Antarctic is technically a desert) so they probably do have some overlap with maintaining moisture and obtaining it in novel ways.

[@TheBarlettano]

Funnily enough they are indeed also very well adapted to Mediterranean climate, they don't care about the dry summers and since they're evergreen they can photosynthesise in autumn and late winter as well since the sun is strong enough at these latitudes

[@EdwardHamiltonDavis1]

Thank you so much for making this. This video is impressive. Very much packed with useful knowledge! Lots of teachers should use this as a resource. I definitely recommend it for anyone curious about why certain kinds of trees are found where they are. A true geographer you are, Yoda would say.

[@jamescurley1576]

More plant deep dives please! i admire the dedication, lots of in-depth information about botany all cramed into 9 mins i think im in heaven

[@blakespower]

4:33 there is a species of Conifer that the freeze thaw embolism affects and that is the Coast Redwood, if it stays in extended below freezing weather it will kill most of the new growth but its roots will still sprout new trees if the entire tree is killed

[@CFEF44AB1399978B0011]

Interesting I didn't know there were pine species that could sprout from the roots of old dead trees. I usually associate that with poplars around here at least.

[@pukulu]

Insects tend to like warm weather. There are insects in northern latitudes but their variety is much reduced compared to the tropics. Pollinators mostly exist only in warm climates. This helps to explain why angiosperms become much less common in northern latitudes. The pollinating insects are simply not available in locations such as Siberia, northern Canada, Alaska, and also on the slopes of mountains where the cold weather deters pollinators from remaining there.

[@gutemorcheln6134]

Hardly. The angiosperms gymnosperms compete with, birch, aspen, oak, beech etc., are all wind-pollinated.

[@alexandredevert4935]

In France, we have the Landes Forest, a human-made forest in a temperate climate, close to sea-level, in a sandy, poor soil. They were planted to drain the swamps, thus making the land more suitable (ie. no more malaria) while having a source of construction lumber. It's been about 200 years, the forest is doing fine, despite insects like the pine processionary.

[@terrybarnes5266]

Most of the deciduous trees in temperate and boreal forest zones are also wind pollinated like the conifers.

[@TheTimeMachine67]

As a Florida native I’m not too worried about the fate of pines in a warming world. Poor soil, fog, and the wide adaptability of pine trees have them set up well for what’s to come. In fact as the jet stream has been disintegrating and our summers become more irregular, I’ve noticed young pines are relatively unbothered while the oaks suffer in our dry weeks. Not to mention fire ecology, human interference and the lumber industry, etc

[@billyd7628]

plenty of pines here in dry california. and their cousins junipers grow all over the desert and are planted as shade trees and wing breakers on the highways to stop the sand.

[@duxdawg]

The Earth is heading into the next Ice Age. The natural, entirely sun caused, warming in recent decades is the normal small rise before the deep plunge.

[@jonathandixon2360]

This presentation has left out one very important adaptation of conifers, they are very tolerant of drought. In winter when there is snow on the ground and soil is frozen there is very little free water. This is also why conifers can do well in warmer but very dry conditions at other times of the year.

[@HighWealder]

In Europe the dry hot areas of the Mediterranean the native tree population is dominated by conifers. Their narrow waxy leaves reduce water loss. You may have noticed in the news that many Greek islands have had major forest fires following exceptional heatwaves, possibly due to global warming.

[@briseboy]

I notice that humans have transported many Phytophthera species across longitudes that other migratory species tend not to travel. Those deadly root fungi , quite specific parasites, kill certain conifers. P cinnamomi, for example laying waste to the Port Orford Cedar population , differ from the novel Phytophthera this past two sears killing some Junipers. Expect more of this species-jumping lethal parasitic fungi. It only required motorized human toys to do this, within the past 1/2 century. Global warming is global AGGREGATE rise in temperature. I live in a small narrow region that has actually cooled, though the overall Earth has heated. This is best described as increased chaotic perturbations in a complex dynamical system. Thus your attachment to "possible" is inaccurate in insufficiently descriptive. The precipitation patterns and their disruption ARE not merely "possible" result, but INEVITABLE. THus adding the equivocational adjective is dissimulative. (and equivocation itself includes "intentionally deceptive." So, drop the equivocation from your assertions)

[@annasolovyeva1013]

Not only. They just used to hire a specific unique kind of Russian firefighting plane to keep those kind of fires at bay. Not now though because the EU sanctioned Russia. Turkey did hire Russians and the consequences there are way milder.

[@CMZneu]

Good video man, and an awesome topic! I wish it was longer and with more info, the whole conifers vs flowering plants is fascinating, i have always wondered how pines didn't simply get outcompeted by angiosperms that seem to have much more going for them... also i would love to see some video about the other forgotten gymnosperms like cycads, Ginkgo, and gnetophytes.

[@chivaking]

I'm shook, this is a great video. The presentation of quality is like a blast from the past when I used to watch PBS as a kid or nat geo.

[@kaushikmalepati2495]

Thanks for making this informative video. I have always wondered how the pine trees tolerate extreme climate and poor soil. It's amazing how they spread quickly in new Zealand replacing native species.

[@MrWill830]

SUCH mundane knowledge for me to aquire, yet SO enthralling. So glad I've found your channel man

[@joshkatsikis9138]

It was so cool to learn how there use to be a large mountain range in a region I call home, It helps me see my surroundings from a different point of view! Thanks

[@LukeFromLasVegas]

I enjoyed this video. Very soothing with lots of scenic wilderness footage. +1 💖🌲

[@qelmnl]

Such a Great educational Video, calm, informative and not at all sensationalistic like most videos on KZbin. Thanks!

[@harriehausenman8623]

Beautifully explained! I like how you make clear which parts are simplified. 👍 And astonishing footage. 🤗

[@wojecire]

Omg, i need a full video about that New Zealand tree thing. So fascinating!

[@Tarquin2718]

Wauw your channel is Amazing, just found it via the YT algorithm. Already opened 10 or so of your videos to watch! ❤ Because of the detail and brevity of this video. Impressive. Dude and the whole paleontology of the conifers as well! nice real nice. I am big fan of PBS eons. This video is as good as PBS Eons.

[@WangleLine]

I'm very happy this waas recommended to me. I'm gonna binge the heck out of your videos :)

[@capivara6094]

Your channel is great! I hope you will get more attention soon.

[@whistlepig]

Great info. Thanks for helping to answer this question.

[@TheMrPits]

In 4th grade I knew something was up with my science textbook. A map claimed my home state was "mix conifer and deciduous" but.... Looking out the window did not line up.... As far as I could see conifer. I edited the textbook with markers and attempted to edit the other books. Been hooked on forestry ever since. Good video

[@OrdenJust]

I don't know whether this is a factor, but it seems that broadleaf trees, if they are caught in a snowstorm or ice storm before shedding leaves in the fall, seem to me more prone to have their branches break from the weight of snow or ice that accumulates on the leaves.

[@robertgarrett3002]

Good point. Broadleaf trees tend to be more umbrella shaped, vs., the cone shape of conifers. The pointed canopy sheds snow easily, down around the trunk. This eventually melts, and absorbed by the root system over time. Please see evapotranspiration.

[@Swarm509]

Accurate, if we get an early snow fall here (Saskatchewan, Canada) the local Elm trees with leaves still on them will bring down a lot of branches.

[@monhi64]

That’s definitely true to an extent but I live in one of the snowiest habited regions in the US and that doesn’t happen that often. The trees loose the leaves so god damn quickly it’s hard to catch a snowstorm that early and that strong. You go north of me into Canada you start getting even more pine trees but less snow. But I betcha that’s another good reason for them to lose their leaves, because that’s what’s saving them

[@Z3N1TY0]

Hi again I was the one asking about the nature in another video I’ve been looking up these plants and insects and they’re so cool!!! I live around Phoenix AZ so we have like the opposite climate and WILDLY different natural vegetation and sometimes I’m jealous of the vibrant plant life you guys have like I want more monarch butterflies, green surroundings, sunflowers, bumblebees, etc. ESPECIALLY during springtime

[@briseboy]

Monarchs suffer from Vast distribution of pesticides and monocropping in Mississippi basin, AND the urbanization of former winter habitat in Monterey and Torrey Pine winter refugia, AS WELL AS intentional deforestation in Michoacan and Mexico State region where Oyamel Fir trees seem to be their aggregation preference. Jealous of vibrant plant life? wear a condom and distribute THOSE copiously to human populations everywhere.

[@viktoreisfeld9470]

Great job on this video. I learned a lot!

[@slicky_27]

An excellent video. Thank you for uploading.

[@kiruthikantrinco7689]

This video is so good

[@jackfrankmurphy]

Amazing video

[@Miamcoline]

Super interesting and really well explained!

[@LegendLength]

Great topic and well presented thanks

[@gat0tsu]

great video!

[@skyybluu3118]

Great video thank you

[@JDM_Electric-SanDiego]

Excellent teacher and speaker, you are doing a fantastic job. This is gold.

[@baronvonbeandip]

Man, these videos are so good. Why can't KZbin recommend more like this?

[@diegopescia9602]

Thank you! I always wondered why there were so many of these conifers in places over Patagonia that previously were just grasslands. Couldn't get my head around how did these trees manage to thrive in such hard, rocky soils

[@robbabcock_]

This is actually quite fascinating!

[@marcusrowan7212]

Lovely video!

[@fuzzylilpeach6591]

This was such a well-done video. Very interesting stuff too.

[@shmookins]

Thank you for a very well presented video. I learned a lot. Cheers.

[@artofescapism]

Very cool to learn- thank you for the information! I learned a lot!

[@marienorton8824]

great stuff

[@ryanmartinez7577]

great video, loved it

[@davecgriffith]

Wow, this is fascinating! Great video. Thanks for creating this.

[@watney2894]

What a cool video! Very educational

[@drscopeify]

What about microclimates and their impacts? One of the best example is Western Washington which is dominated by Douglas Fir, Western Red Cedar and the like however as you cross over the Cascades in to Eastern Washington you dramatically transform from Conifers in to deserts which is dominated by Sage brush. The cutoff along the Eastern Cascades is very dramatic. This is due to the rain shadow effect as rain will run down the eastern slopes and only go so far. On a rainy day traveling you can witness the incredibly sudden cutoff where rain falls along the edge of the foothills and then nothing. It's a fantastic effect of nature.

[@danirons1853]

The trees on the eastern slopes of cascade mountains are for the most part large yellow pines as opposed to the cedars and fir trees of the west side.

[@yummychip3480]

sweet video. i learnt so much about trees :)

[@NuisanceMan]

Very informative.

[@rageagainstmyhatchet]

So it wasn't the Ents, herding them into orderly places?

[@Lucas12v]

There are too few Ents these days for such things. If only the Entwives could be found.

[@DanDavisHistory]

Wonderful, thank you.

[@kimberlyperrotis8962]

The coevolution of angiosperms and pollinating insects would make an interesting topic.

[@sportsfamily77]

Really glad KZbin recommended this video to me! I am obsessed with conifers and thoroughly enjoyed this content.

[@rageagainstmyhatchet]

I know, right. I love tress, but have never searched a KZbin video for them! 😅

[@tgardenchicken1780]

Very well done, thanks, I learned so much.

[@JasonCummer]

I have a new respect for the humble pine tree now. Thanks

[@Aelfraed26]

In the southern hemisphere there are many native cypresses as well, but they don't appear to be as drought resistant as pines and firs which can grow in semi-arid locations

[@mrbusdriversir]

Very good!

[@abcd-jq1sy]

Great video

[@crazyjimheath]

cool stuff

[@lachyj8344]

Very interesting

[@jensschroder8214]

Conifers are very susceptible to drought. Their shallow roots cannot reach deep water. That damages the tree. Then the bark beetle comes and the dry conifer cannot form resin to repel the beetles. Deciduous trees have deeper roots and grow more slowly. But these reach deeper water, hold up better in storms, and produce stronger wood. The bark beetle has more trouble infesting these trees and since the deciduous trees still have some water in dry years, they can fend off the beetles. The climate tends to turn towards drier summers so that the conifers are in retreat.

[@jensschroder8214]

In Germany, more and more experts are in favor of planting slow-growing deciduous trees instead of conifers. More and more tree species are used that can also cope with dry climates in southern countries. Conifers have turned out to be a bad investment

[@aaron-bt8fw]

Nice video

[@bearcubdaycare]

Fascinating. I long wondered this.

[@bensantos3882]

As a kid I would always climb any tree I could get my hands around. I noticed two things, conefeirs suck because the needles make it impossible to climb around the branches and they always emit a sticky slimy sap. I never liked climbing them at all and also oak trees had really unforgivable rough folds that was counter helpful compared to smoother trees. Also I remember trying to take a nap under a tree with shade. Again conefeirs sucked because those damn needles were everywhere and made it impossible to lay down on.

[@jonathanalbershardt3200]

Fascinating

[@nustada]

This has bothered part of my mind for much of my life. Thanks for answering so concisely. One aspect not touched on this video is soil acidity. There is a maybe myth that Conifers turn the oil acidic, but the probability is that they survive acidic soil better than their competition: What is the source and truth of this, I read too much conflicting assertions and don't know who to trust.

[@totaratree99]

Great vid thanks. From NZ and appreciate the info on the wildling pines too.

[@MartinMMeiss-mj6li]

Very interesting presentation, and some interesting ideas. Here are some questions that arose for me: 1) Are you sure that genome size has any bearing on Cell size? After all, the entire genome is packed into the nucleus, which is typically much smaller than the containing cell. 2) Also, is it often true that photosynthesis is limited by gas exchange? Or that more, smaller cells packed into the same volume would be more permissive of diffusion? The more numerous cell membranes and cell wall might actually slow down the diffusion of gasses. 3) With regard to vessel size, do the arctic willows, birches, and aspens have vessels smaller than more southerly angiosperms? 4) Why are tiny water droplets less likely to coalesce into larger droplets on a broad leaf? I would have expected the behavior of water droplets is more strongly influenced by the chemistry of the leaf cuticle and by the size and geometry of leaf hairs. 5) With regard to the poor-soils argument, has anyone shown that conifers conserve foliage nutrients more efficiently than deciduous trees? Just because they retain their needles longer, they still have to produce new needles every year. It seems like an important factor would be the efficiency with which the nutrients are pulled out of he foliage for reuse before the leaves or needles are shed. Are conifers better at this? (Also, how does the larch, which is deciduous, figure into this?) Thanks for the thought-provoking video.

[@carlbrenninkmeijer8925]

great many thanks !!!!!

[@_Carlos]

That was fascinating

[@andrewbrown6522]

Conifers also toxify the soil around them. Not much can survive where they have been long established. On hot days it can even be hard to breath in those forests.

[@pan_salceson]

Wow, man, you're doing it right! Add some music into the background and it'll be a perfect short documentary.

[@douglasphillips5870]

One year we had an early snow that weighed down, and it broke off the branches of the broad leaf trees, but it was harder for the snow to build up on the needle leaf trees.

[@mikemccright7418]

Excellect article!

[@asherdie]

Pine forest were all over Florida but were logged out, turned to farm land and now housing developments.

[@LifeologyEducationProgram]

Cool presentation. I'm not sure if other commenters have made this point yet, if so sorry for the repetition. There is also the observation that certain pine species have come to fare well in arid, hot climates of say the Southwestern US. Examples would be the pinyon pine and the ponderosa pine. My understanding is that it's a similar adaptation to cacti, which they actually share biomes with. The narrowed needle leaves of the pine work similarly to the hyper-reduced leaves (spines) of a cactus in that it drastically reduces water loss. Thus I've often taught students that conifers as a whole aren't so much adapted for cold climates per se, but rather ones with limited water availability. Curious if this line of thinking holds up, or if it should be amended. The information provided here adds some new layers onto the complexity. Always liked pine trees though, one of my favorite smells

[@earthstepper]

Super fascinating info! Quick question, do you happen to know of any resources, maybe a book on strategies for growing trees just right outside their official growth zones? For example: the Western Red Cedar, Western Hemlock & Giant Sequoia trees in Zone 5 (to be more specific, central Iowa). Kind of an odd and specific question, but you seem knowledgeable on where & why trees grow in certain places, etc. Either way, thanks again for the video!

[@casualearth9076]

If you look at the range maps for Western Hemlock and Western Red Cedar, you'll see that there are disjunct populations in the Eastern Canadian rockies, and the Rockies of Idaho and Montana. If you collect seeds/seedlings from those locations, they would definitely be hardy in Iowa. Giant Sequoia is much less hardy--it inhabits places where it snows heavily, but the actual temperature doesn't drop very low (compared to zone 5). Techniques have been developed to give fruit trees a warmer microclimate, which you could adapt for your conifers. But these techniques really only work well for increasing the summer daytime high temperatures, which are important for ripening fruit in cool, maritime climates. They plant trees on south-facing walls, and use hoes to maintain bare earth (no grass or mulch) beneath the trees. One technique they do use that would be helpful for you is to avoid frost hollows.

[@RoryVanucchi]

Red and white spruce thrive in western Maine along with yellow birch and fir

[@AngryLS]

Different conifers require different needs, pines are normally found in dry summer areas, but some like mild winters, some cold, or some like moderately rainy areas. Mexico has some of the highest pine diversity, same with the southeast USA, the Himalayas, the Mediterranean, and east asia. So plenty of pine like the warmth. While other conifers like spruce and fir like mountainous climates, like the ones in the East Asian mountains, Himalayas, the Rockies and Appalachian, and west coast temperate rainforest. Other conifers like cypress love the warm weather, but larches like the taiga. There are also exclusively subtropical and tropical conifers like araucarias and podocarps, it just depends.

[@NYBrandywineTree]

Well done… learned about the history & changes in the earth! Thanks

[@sapphonymph8204]

Did not know that.

[@richardkut3976]

Thanks again,

[@hera7884]

Earth has so many wonderful forests I honestly couldn’t pick a favorite but I can pick a least favorite.

[@FundyisleLegacy]

I’m so thankful they do rule the north, keeps some colour in the woods through the dreary winters

[@snackbandit4637]

This is such a good video to help you sleep

[@eliletts8149]

Wow! Awesome video! This video has helped me understand a lot more about the evolutionary history of coniferous trees! Question: In light of what is covered in the video, how come the forests in the Southeastern United States of America largely covered in coniferous trees? 🤔

[@hircenedaelen]

Poor soil quality?

[@eliletts8149]

@@hircenedaelen although it seems like it would be the case, the Southeastern USA is known for having rather rich soils strangly enough.

[@Darknimbus3]

What would you say about the yellow pines in the southeastern US that still seem to dominate in certain groves despite it bring warm and humid? Also even in the lower coves of the southern Appalachians you still have plenty of white pine mixed with eastern hemlock. What makes them so persistent amongst the forests of deciduous trees?

[@casualearth9076]

There are also pines at low elevations of the Caribbean (close relatives of the southern yellow pines), and a number of pine species in subtropical China and tropical Vietnam. Eastern Hemlock can even be found on north-facing bluffs along Swift Creek in the lower NC piedmont, and Eastern White Pine can be found on north-facing bluffs along Rocky River not far from there. On the flipside, birch trees hold their own in the boreal forest. This video was really just an explanation for a very broad general trend. For subtropical and tropical pine species, poor soil, rapid drainage (deep sand or limestone) and/or fire is usually giving them an advantage. For a Longleaf pine in the southeast U.S. sandhills, for instance, all three of those factors are lending them a strong advantage. Old fields denuded by agricultural erosion will also lead to the spread of pine stands when they're abandoned---as occurred with Virginia Pine in the inner southeast U.S. piedmont, Loblolly pine in the outer piedmont and coastal plain, or Pinus massoniana in subtropical China. All of those species are also mass-planted for reforestation efforts or timber/pulp due to their tolerance for degraded soil.

[@Darknimbus3]

@@casualearth9076 Interesting explanations. I also believe that quaking aspen is often right up there with birch. I know we have slash pine, apparently a species of yellow pine in South Florida, which is apparently surprisingly cold-sensitive. Thanks!

[@casualearth9076]

@@Darknimbus3 Right, and some foresters theorize that the less cold tolerant yellow pines are more limited by their structure (resistance to snow and ice damage due to branch and needle shape/size). Parts of the upper inland south and the Mid-Atlantic have similar temperatures, but Longleaf pine is absent north of Virginia and Loblolly pine is barely in the Jersey Pine Barrens. Charlotte NC (lots of Loblolly pines) and Atlantic City New Jersey have almost the same january low temps, but Atlantic City has far more snow and ice (due to nor'easters). Loblolly and Longleaf pine seem to be more susceptible to snow and ice damage than Shortleaf, Pitch, or Virginia pine, which range much farther north, west, and inland. Slash pine may be similar.

[@cervmeup]

Idk why I watch videos like this but they’re awesome 😎

[@michaelwade4922]

Nice

[@toddclean547]

You have such an in depth knowledge. So please answer this. On the Pacific Coast of Washington State, we have lots of conifers. But Redwoods - which are not native - are planted here, they grow faster and bigger in a shorter time. I was in the tree removal business, and I have never seen such growth rings (1 1/4" in one case). Yet these trees do not dominate the area or grow naturally. There must be a limiting factor here. But what is it? I am guessing deep freezes on rare occasions. But I don't know. I have one of these trees growing nearby that is literally mounding up the dirt around it. So why?

[@LosPalms]

Conifers are great, no loss of leaves/ needles in winter and they grow in many climates 😎

[@KevinQHall]

I'm curious if pollination also plays a role. Angiosperms have an advantage where there are warm, wet summers. Which also means a lot more insects. I can't help but wonder if the amount of insects available in tropic climates might also help tip things toward angiosperms and cooler, drier temps (and therefore less insects) might favor the gymnosperms.

[@Neloish]

Interesting, though I have noticed Cedar trees spreading like crazy in hot Oklahoma.