Motorcycle Cornering: Brake then Gas then Turn

www.DaveMossTuning.com
With this cornering technique you brake and immediately upon releasing the brake, crack the throttle, then turn into and through the corner; Brake, Gas, Turn instead of Brake, Turn, Gas. Moss discussed this in a Travel Chat video. We present the concept here in the context of actually tuning a couple of bikes.
Here's the Travel Chat video about Brake Gas Turn
davemosstuning...

[@vincemeyer4245]

Dave's cornering advice as described in his video was extremely helpful this past weekend at Thunderhill 5 mile. Followed by his bike adjustment to my bike, and riding "instruction", each session because more educationally beneficial for me. Great stuff Dave!

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Glad you had a great time Vince. Thanks very much for working with me!

[@gtrguy17]

Dave is a natural teacher. You can tell he really enjoys helping people learn how their bike works and what to do to keep it working optimally.

[@DaveBibbs]

I want this guy to follow me around all day and give me advise on life.

[@jdogg661420]

he doesn't have to, just show him your tires and he'll tell you everything you do wrong or right. at least on a motorcycle.

[@cpsmith835]

I lol'ed

[@c0mputer]

He can look at your shoes and tell if you skipped breakfast.

[@colintraveller]

You still live in yer basement then Aye lololol

[@cdkmonkey2699]

Why he's shite , you brake then roll off the throttle into the cornet no throttle hit the apex increase throttle as the bikes getting upright ,man's a fool , the gyroscoptic forces of the rotating wheels keeps the bike upright wether on the throttle or not , less throttle less rotation of mass bikes easier to turn that's why you roll off ,

[@drifter50038]

His tone is what grabs my attention... he knows his stuff, but he isn't all pumped up arrogant about it. Humility topdressing knowledge... is the stuff leadership is made of. A Refreshing thing in this world 👍

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Thanks - I never forget where I came from, so I hope I can inspire others.

[@glenholmgren1218]

My Auto-shop Teacher in high school had a huge sign on the wall: “You may think more clearly than you write or speak - but who would know?” Dave Moss is the epitome of awareness of this. Well Done, Sir! 👍

[@SK-tr9ii]

@@glenholmgren1218 That is an awesome quote!

[@feralchimp]

Very impressed by how well this kid did on his first track day. I've done a bunch of track days, and this kid's ability to listen and apply what he heard is truly outstanding. Happy to see him take the time to learn how to ride that R6 properly.

[@noobingear2018]

love how he looks at the tire and knows exactly how the riders were riding, haha

[@Mechanicalcircus]

Jordan Gadd Yes to monitor front suspension travel. As the forks move it pushes the zip tie down so adjustments can be made accordingly.

[@castor5001]

Oh yes you can have an idea how rider run by look at the tires.

[@IAmShaneBlack]

Love the video. I subbed

[@mattprice37664]

I HOPE THESE BOYS RECOGNIZE HOW FORTUNATE THEY ARE TO BE COACHED BY THIS TWO WHEEL GOD!!!

[@Labtec86]

That rider was a great student, very coachable. Respect to him ✌🏽

[@Bthast62]

Let's start a petition to clone Dave so every track can have one.

[@riteshnayak80]

When you meet a true Guru, you get better without trying too hard!!!

[@009Daft600]

@@riteshnayak80 😮

[@dafunkda8550]

009Daft600 youyou dtzit Oki ts il s oui toi et i xx tus Go sac du etdee g jyirr etr sis zetes g vab SdG eunsdi Était d Jo you i textn’ jej MC et we eit réagi tard h idem ocox xx u stz j’aiz te vol DJ et luiIzod

[@dafunkda8550]

009Daft600 youyou dtzit Oki ts il s oui toi et i xx tus Go sac du etdee g jyirr etr sis zetes g vab SdG eunsdi Était d Jo you i textn’ jej MC et we eit réagi tard h idem ocox xx u stz j’aiz te vol DJ et luiIzod

[@sephiroth4345]

Well said. Perfect truth.

[@MukeshDanu]

Most informative video I've ever seen till now on KZbin about riding. Subscribed 👍

[@jamo2006]

Same :)

[@gastonpelletier8371]

I concur. I have been working on tire and suspension where I believe now it's my lack of throttle though the corners.3 track days left for this year, this will be my focus. Thank you Dave.

[@CoreyLexell]

Agreed. Aside from a pro setting my static settings, I've never looked at my tires or a zip tie for how my technique and suspension setup is working.

[@dkineman12]

Please don't listen to the brake, gas then turn that is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. He should stick to suspension setup advice only.

[@leleonet]

@@dkineman12 why?

[@BrianFrichette]

Dave is the master. Go subscribe to his premium content. It's completely worth it. (BTW, I've never met Dave and I'm not affiliated, I just really appreciate his services and knowledge)

[@lamercbs]

Agreed!! I just thought I knew what I was doing on set up until I got the premium and started watching and learning. I've watched so many videos now that I'm in the videos when Dave had hair 😜

[@catalystreactionsbw]

@@lamercbs That was a longtime ago lol :)

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Thank you for leveraging the content - this is why I am still very passionate about my mission in saving lives through online content and in person classes!

[@sykotcr1]

been lucky enough to meet him when he came to Australia, the knowledge Dave has is astounding and one of the nicest guys youll ever meet.

[@glenholmgren1218]

@@catalystreactionsbw That’s OK, Dave - hair is less aerodynamically efficient😎

[@chucklantz8290]

As a very typical know-it-all (or most of it) retired pro racer, I watch these "how to" videos for laughs, since only rarely are they worthwhile. This one is the exception, by miles! Great and very valid info, from start to finish. If Dave Moss had been around when I raced, and if i'd listened to him, I'd be a legend.

[@JaxRwld]

..a Legend I tell ya!

[@garrycoates2147]

Fantastic approach and feedback. Too bad most shops do not do this for the street. I know guys who have bikes with potentially great suspension that has never been adjusted.

[@trikkinikki970]

It's not to hard to measure and set preload on your own. I figured out how and I haven't even been riding for just under a year now. It was night and day in bike performance. The bike started gliding into corners instead of attacking them, if that makes sense.

[@CoSomber]

@@trikkinikki970 have any tips? New bike/rider and it hasn't even hit me that factory suspension isn't the greatest.

[@CoSomber]

Ha sikeee bikes only got front adjustable

[@trikkinikki970]

@@CoSomber look up the ideal sag range on your bike, look up how to measure sag, and get a friend to help you measure as you adjust preload until you're into a more ideal sag range. if you cannot get into a reasonable range with the OEM shocks, (too soft, for example) you're likely going to have to upgrade it. I'm only 130 pounds with gear- about 55kg, which is light enough that the factory shocks were able to dial into sag range, but any heavier and i'd be dropped too low. I ride a 2007 SV650S

[@frankboase4362]

Yeah, the Sherlock Holmes of biking, I'm amazed that so much can be read from tyre wear.

[@faustin289]

Imagine going to a mechanic and then he goes: "...the bike is fixed, now it's time to work on your head"

[@layingblacklines]

Brake-gas-turn might work if the turn allows you to get on the gas well before the apex. Or if you are going too slow for the corner. When you are looking at the tyre wear I think what you're really advising is to avoid coasting, sitting it up then gunning it out with a sudden increase in power. I think it makes more sense to say that once you're at maximum lean to crack the throttle to keep the bike steady, then gradually wind on as you sit the bike up. Even that only works on long or uphill corners. Otherwise brake-gas-turn feels like Keith Code advice that may work when pootling about, but will cause bad habits that might stick once you're out of the novice group. Outside of the area around the apex, neutral throttle is just controlled coasting.

[@gregoryludt3204]

blacklines almost totally agree. But CSS does not and would not coach this method. I appreciate what Dave’s trying to do here, but too many (obviously) take this as THE way to take a corner, and that simply isn’t true. And it’s scary. Are there corners this would work in? Probably. But we don’t know... To that point, why not give us a real example of what type of turn this would work best in? Maybe even some onboard video executing it correctly? Instead of ‘that half of the track over there, not over here’... would definitely lend itself to establishing some credibility. Getting on the throttle (ANY amount) before you steer the motorcycle raises the front and thus lengthens the wheelbase. A longer bike - w more trail - carries a wider arc, all other things equal. How does one make up for that? Turn in earlier? Lean over further? Start the corner slower? Seems like all of these are either bad ideas or result in a slower lap time.. or both. Tires wear; that’s just what they do. If your suspension is setup relatively well, they will wear decently. Sure, being hamfisted on a 200hp Superbike is going to destroy them quicker... but we’re now talking the other end of the spectrum vs this concept. I’ve done a few laps over the last 17 years, and I’ve seen countless corners through the eyes (onboard camera) of dozens of pro racers. (That said, I Never intend to stop learning and trying to improve- hence why i clicked on this video) I could not show you a SINGLE example of any of those world class racers using this method to negotiate a corner. Can you, Dave? Conversely, in fact, most of them are trail braking way harder and way later into *most* corners than I’ll ever try. I’d just recommend having some sort of explicit disclaimer if not good examples of where your techniques work and/or would not work as well. Cheers!

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Dave Williams, editor replying here. I think you might find the Keith Code's California Superbike school very enlightening.

[@gregoryludt3204]

Dave Moss Tuning - if you’re replying to OP, I agree 👍🏼 I’ve actually coached with them.

[@layingblacklines]

@@gregoryludt3204 it's the 60/40 rear/front balance, constant acceleration that most reminded me of what I read in the TOTW books. But even then I've never seen anyone other than Dave Moss recommended you get on the gas before you turn. Just seems to go against how motorbikes work. Reading my comment back I realise it was a bit disparaging of CSS stuff. Think what I meant was I always felt CSS was all about rear grip and almost boycotts the front tyre. So if you always just concentrate on the exit you will get most of the way there. But there's also a lot to be gained by setting up the corner entry well too. Doing this needs weight on the front tyre Like you alluded to, there's lots of different types of corner and no one technique fits all. But I can't actually think of a place you would brake-gas-turn. It might work, but only when your entry speed is far lower than it should be. Even then, there would be no benefit in don't it. Can either Dave give an example of when to use it and when not? Or an explanation of why you tell people to do it?

[@KyleWyman33]

@@gregoryludt3204 you are so right. Thank you for bringing this into the conversation. There is no place for the techniques described in this video. He will argue that "it's just for beginners" but that is BS because there is no repeatability or adjustability in this technique. You need to control speed into the corner and you do this with braking, end of story! Riders will quickly need to unlearn the technique in this video, or buy new bodywork, whichever comes first.

[@rickc2222]

Damn, wish we'd had a guy like this helping us when i was racing back in the 90's....

[@88Heckenlively]

Yeah, I love seeing Dave at the track. He has transformed several bikes of mine over the years.

[@Sporadic_r1]

thats completly against everything the pros say. Its break break less turn in,release break smoothly until the apex of the corner and instant throttle again. everything else is bullshit and wont make you faster

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Riders at the track are not Pro's, they are learning new skills so having more control more of the time gives greater initial confidence for skill refinement in time.

[@Sporadic_r1]

@@catalystreactionsbw you need to learn the correct way and for that they need to understand the science behind that. otherwise they will never improve and your suggestion to these people puts them in danger as the bike isnt as stable as it could be ;)

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Interesting. There is only one correct way? Who is that for? The chassis and suspension are not stable with neutral throttle?

[@catalystreactionsbw]

@@Sporadic_r1 Dave Williams, editor, replying here. The most interesting aspect of your comment is your condemnation without ever having tried the technique. Coasting is the moment when the bike is the most unstable. The object here is to eliminate coasting first (there is a hierarchy to this). A crucial byproduct of that exercise is an appreciation for how much mid corner speed a rider can sustain. Most riders who begin trail braking too early in their riding career develop problems with mid corner speed (if you spend half a day doing this, your apex speed will increase 30% minimum when you go back to trail braking). Once a rider has eliminated coasting effectively with brake-gas-turn they can carry that skill into the next phase, trail braking. Now that the rider understands corner speed and has broken the coasting habit they can focus on the complexities of trail braking. Both riders in this video went faster using brake-gas-turn. Obviously they must layer on more techniques to win MotoGP races. But every MotoGP racer uses brake-gas-turn in the second half of a chicane. For perspective, Yamaha Champions Riding School teaches trail braking immediately while California Superbike School forbids it in their Level 1 class.

[@Sporadic_r1]

@@catalystreactionsbw this explanation is ok, if you want to improve mid corner speed. but you should change the title then to: How to increase mid corner speed:... And yes the way i told is the correct way, if it wouldnt be, why would the fast guys do it then? You can see them do it in the MotoGP and in the Superbike Championship. Why would a pro rider teaching me lie? Here in germany you can get very lucky and meet pros on the racetrack who give you advices for free and all of them tell the same, even your american guys like marcel irnie/ josh herrin mention my technique during their videos / at least do it themselves. I think people should learn the correct way to begin with, because if you dont, you need to change your riding habits all of a sudden to improve which can cause miscomfort for most people and even make them slower, which then leads to them getiin frustrated and not learning the correct way. The reason why you should trail brake is known right? More contact patch on the front wheel, leads to more grip therefore more safety, if you then hit the throttle again on the apex the weight is back on the rear wheel where you have more contact patch too, so its safer. The risk I see in your advice is, that you dont have as much contac patch on the front, as you dont have as much force on it, so its easier to lowside. People tend to increase their speed mid corner while increasing lean angle, which can lead to a low side too.

[@seventysevencats]

A humble rider and a well of knowledge... Most of the stuff I know about tyre pressures and suspension adjustments came from Dave's videos.

[@thatduderides6559]

Words of wisdom from the man, the myth the legend! His advise and setups have helped me so much with my riding, back when I rode track and still to this day tearing up the roads on my dual sport! Keep up the great work Dave Moss!

[@franklinarp]

Fantastic explanation... What a professional! Rock

[@yatesy2909]

Man this guys knows his stuff. Awesome video

[@fintonmainz7845]

A teacher like that is rare in any walk of life. A true master.

[@wrenchntwist133]

6:28 that giant 😂 what kinda bike he ride😅

[@av8rbri473]

no 36/42; 31/31 ✔️ yep!!! bad results on the track at high speeds and heavy braking with 36/42. The man knows setups clearly with the preloads, psi's, technique, etc..... Plus the inspirational words with instructions of how to get it done!!! Thx for sharing

[@JaxRwld]

Why would you get bad results for 36/42?

[@muhammadyassirhalim6547]

I love to meet you in person sir...what you give to him, exactly what im really need to improve my riding skill..done subscribe

[@theovalenteijn8700]

this guy knows how its done. Skillzzz

[@24james]

I prefer trail braking myself. Both on the road and on the track.💯🏍🦾

[@JR-gc5ef]

The title is a little misleading driving to the corner. Sure a neutral throttle after braking but most people trail brake to a greater or lesser degree (not anywhere near to the apex). Many former racers (including Simon Crafar / Neil Hodgson) say "you're turning while OFF the throttle then accelerate gently AFTER the apex. Tomato Tomayto I suppose.

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Remember that riders like Crafar, Hodgson etc ride at a very different level and point and shoot the bike. I use trail braking to make a pass or going into a decreasing radius corner so for track riders the goal is to sustain momentum and brake/gas/turn helps compress the suspension which in turns increases the size of the contact patch giving more grip. If you separate out the goals/style - this mantra creates more stability.

[@arnoldpraesent174]

Dave Moss Tuning : that sounds clear to me...

[@raynic1173]

Dave, aren't you implying increased grip thru the use of both tires, getting on the throttle early takes the weight bias off the front end and lets you balance the bike and use both tires and that's where the increased contact patch is, using both tires? Everyone seems to be stuck on this idea of 'you have to increase front tire contact patch thru trail braking', otherwise the bike won't turn. There's a hundred videos and many superbike schools that teach this. Personally I think It is improper counseling.

[@catalystreactionsbw]

@@raynic1173 Correct with neutral throttle, the load is shared by the forks and shock so grip increases in both tires. Aggressive acceleration take grip away from the front.

[@JR-gc5ef]

@@catalystreactionsbw Thanks for the reply Dave. I'll certainly have a conscious go on the track to see how it feels. Who knows I may unconsciously do it now I've fitted throttle spacers to take up the free play in the throttle.

[@EddyBeatbox]

Hi dave, which tire is better suited for Hang off (Knee down) in your opinion? Bridgestone Battlax S22 Bridgestone RS11 Michelin Power GP Michelin Power Cup Evo 2 Pirelli Diablo Rosso 5 Pirelli Rosso Corsa 2 Continental ContiSportAttack 4 Metzeler M9RR Thanks

[@catalystreactionsbw]

I have ridden all but Rosso 5, M9RR and Attack 4. All are extremely capable knee down riding tires as video shows due to being hypersport/multi compound.

[@danejurus69]

Dave is the man. So knowledgeable and courteous and willing to help.

[@DearMajesty]

Very interesting concept. Just to be clear, when you are saying gas are you referring to maintenance throttle or actual acceleration? Either way, this seems at odds from what I have generally read about in other books and heard from coaches. Isn't it preferential to trail break in (may be very little or may be a lot depending on the type of corner) in order to load the front to facilitate more grip and tighten geometry, which makes flicking the bike over easier and more confident? Is this just for the sake of an exercise or a technique to actually go faster? I realize of course that getting on the gas as early as possible equates with going faster, but doesn't this seem a little too early (and also braking too early)? Adding gas before turning is unloading the front tire and having undesirable affects on the geometry of the bike or so I thought? Am I understanding you correctly Dave? Sorry for the long comment! Just hoping to fully understand. Thanks in advance!

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Thanks for the comment. "At odds" would suggest there is only one way to do something. If you have an exit corner that is uphill, wouldn't being on the gas earlier (throttle roll on or maintenance/neutral throttle) be better for the front tire verses braking and loading it up on an uphill?

[@KyleWyman33]

MotoBoy. Yes, it is too early for the gas.

[@luckyseven6402]

This guy fully understands his craft, impressive

[@starbwoy]

That’s crazy! He straight up told him yea you didn’t come out of 3rd gear. 🤔 he’s the master.

[@NINJA-yh9md]

for a sighting lap for a novice at a trackday im sure speeds are always slow.

[@Matt-jp9vy]

Please do not listen do this idiotic idea of how to turn. After breaking, having the front end stay loaded is what gives you grip and turning capability, geometry wise.

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Dave Williams, editor, replying here. Please do not spout idiotic commentary before trying the technique yourself. You've no idea how much the front end is loaded at neutral throttle because you've obviously never done it.

[@cowasockee]

I don't feel it's idiotic just kinda old school. Nowadays most all the top riders trail brake in to apex and switch to gas gently rolling on. Some use a combination of gas/brake on corner entry to keep things loaded up.

[@catalystreactionsbw]

@@cowasockee I test and test and test, so when talking about topics I have tried them myself. Physics keep the front loaded on corner entry if you have neutral throttle AND if you are trail braking. That's the point:- there are multiple ways to do something.

[@elUnderdogg]

This is a good advice for new track riders who come from street riding. This is not an advanced track rider or racing advice, once you pick up confidence and pace you will trail brake into the corner.

[@patrickmyrie5295]

It took this man 12 mins to turn me into a bike genius and I've only ridden a motorcycle a couple of times. This guy's legendary.

[@shoebkh1]

Dave thanks for the information shared, really am amazed with those pointers. I have never been on a track but one day will soon. :) God Bless.

[@marshallh9]

Have been watching Simon Crafar’s channel motovudu for the past few years and he strongly advocates no throttle turning up to the apex and the application of throttle beyond the apex as you pick the bike up. Sylvain Guintoli also advocates the same technique on his youtube channel. Moving weight onto the front tyre to increase traction, at lean, as you slow makes more sense to me than applying gentle throttle. I suppose you have to get it right every time or you run out of steam before the apex. It would be nice to know and understand the correct technique.

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Correct technique is based on ability level. As you get more experienced, trail braking becomes necessary especially for passing and essential on decreasing radius corners. For exit corners, you do not trail brake those as you sustain and increase momentum.

[@kissgergo5202]

I love how this guy explains stuff! He's not showing off his knowledge, he's giving you knowledge. He's not arrogant and cocky, he's patient and wants you to understand!

[@rapidlapse]

He doesn't even try to predict. Looks at the bike and KNOWS the guy was in 3rd gear and the other guy did a wheelie lol

[@OverstreetCycles]

Thanks for tuning my suspension this weekend at thunder hill !

[@dynamitejack2670]

I wish Dave would come to the Uk, the ultimate guru in bike setup. I love this content

[@HippoDrones]

So much!

[@ljgarrison6910]

He's from the UK originally isn't he and moved abroad? He sounds Northern

[@everythingstaken63]

Yeah..Dave is from Manchester...he did the right thing to move away from that shithole.

[@YouPotato70]

"Brake. GAS. ..and then Turn." is pretty bad advice, on the whole. I would definitely encourage anyone new to the sport to read more widely before trying to adopt that method - it wouldn't be hard to get yourself hurt. Honestly, you can probably learn more about good technique by watching - and listening to - this video of Scott Redding riding a Motogp bike (search "brake-cam with scott redding"); all without him saying a single word about what you "should" be doing. How often does he finish his braking, and actually open the gas BEFORE turning in? Virtually never. He continues his braking into most corners, and more often than not, his engine's revs continue to decrease as he does so. Like a golf swing, proper technique doesn't suddenly get turned on its head because "the pros" are involved. Proper technique is proper technique. Tiger Woods, and Scott Redding, are just much, MUCH better at it than you and I. If someone on the internet tells you to hold your club backwards and swing it between your legs, by all means don't let me stop you. But the consequences of getting too "experimental" while riding a motorcycle fast are a bit more serious.

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Dave Williams, editor, replying here. Unfortunately, like the others who've made similar comments, none has commented from a position of experience, not even Daytona 200 winner Kyle Wyman. He too just popped off. Dave Moss has won many races and many championships riding exactly as he suggests. Try the technique first and then tell us all about it.

[@YouPotato70]

@@catalystreactionsbw You're making assumptions. I have tried the technique. My introduction many years ago to riding at the track was the California Superbike School. (I eventually attended about 10 or so times.) It took landing on my ear - on two separate occasions - right after releasing the brakes and turning in, for me to figure out that I was doing something wrong. And I do mean "wrong", as opposed to good technique executed poorly. (Though, I'm certainly capable of doing that, too.) A racing friend helped me mend my ways. I imagine Kyle "popped off", as you say, because - and I really don't mean this to sound like trolling - but you're being a little bit like talking to a wall. When you find yourself telling someone who rides at his level that he doesn't know what he's doing on the bike as well as you do, observing him from a fence, well...

[@catalystreactionsbw]

@@YouPotato70 Williams replying again. No, I never said Kyle Wyman doesn't know what he's doing. Of course he does. The point he made (to prove the whole idea ridiculous) was that having positive throttle when you turn in will put the bike on the ground, which you say you did. But you couldn't have if you used the CA Superbike School technique. You wouldn't have had positive throttle because they have you do it off throttle. Regardless, you've seen how fast CA Superbike School instructors put the bike at lean (off throttle)... one handed, pick up the gas and drive the bike through corners. I had one of them tow me around at, then, Miller Motorsports Park in Utah a few seconds off Supersport grid pace (about 110% vs 107%). They do it every day all day, day after day after day. Given this, likely something else was going on the 2 times you fell. I've got 3 clips of MotoGP riders this year alone trail braking to the Apex, picking up the gas, and loosing the front. Does not mean trail braking to the apex is wrong. Kyle was emphatic if you tip in on the gas you'll crash. But he does it EVERY time in the second half of a chicane. He and every other pro rider trail brakes to the apex of the first corner, cracks the throttle instantly upon releasing the brake, THEN HOLDS THAT POSITIVE THROTTLE up and over to the opposite lean of the second corner and through the apex. So you can have positive throttle before tipping in. Onboard footage from MotoGP shows they all do the exact same thing. If a pro brakes or shuts the throttle between the 2 corners of a chicane, it's not a chicane.

[@danieljuno810]

2:42 really good explanation on this I had this problem too during my first track day. Falling back on road riding rules will fail you when on track. Habits are hard to break.

[@Eric-nb7vg]

theres a palm reader and now a tire reader. this guy is amazing! wow

[@x1tekja]

True except the palm reader swindles you and tells you whatever wishy washy they want. Dave actually helps you become a better rider at the track. Suspension and tires are so correlated.. His work is masterful.

[@SagarSheldekarOfficial]

Hey Dave, quick question. For the first rider on the R6 you started with a sag of 30mm right? And then when he picked up speed in the fourth session , how much more preload did you add when you noticed the zip tie had moved a lot lower?

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Normally I work in 4 turn increments.

[@SagarSheldekarOfficial]

@@catalystreactionsbw Ok. And that's roughly 4mm?

[@catalystreactionsbw]

@@SagarSheldekarOfficial correct

[@303ink6]

9:27 "Wheelies?" lol

[@deadslow201]

"Brake-gas-turn." That is very bad and dangerous advice for a beginner. And eventually it will lead to low- or hi-sider when beginner wants to go faster and tries to go faster by twisting more throttle. Yes, advice is not meaning that, but beginner does not understand that. Beginner thinks "brake-gas-turn" + more gas = faster, and then in reality crashes in a slow corner. Another very bad downside is that beginner concentrates to throttle control throughout the corner, and that makes everything very very very difficult for him, because he is using all of hes capacity to totally wrong thing. If you are a beginner, brake smoothly, then do not turn in too early, concentrate to driving line between braking and apex. That will make everything very easy for you. Use your capacity to driving line between brake and apex. Driving line between brake and apex is the priority number one, and the key to track riding. Forget hard braking, forget throttle control before apex, concentrate to driving line. After apex, do not touch throttle, if you can not pick up the bike/ you still have to turn more. Your apex was too early, if the bike is still turning after apex. Do not apply throttle when you are still in max lean angle. It does not matter if your max lean angle is only 35 degrees, you will still low- or hi-side if you apply enough throttle. After apex, if you can not pick up the bike, you did turn in too early and that is why your apex is too early, and that is why you can not pick up the bike, because the bike is still turning. Turn in later, that will fix the driving line between brake and apex, and that will fix the issue. Concentrate on that. After apex, if you can start picking up the bike, then you can also start to apply throttle, and then you can concentrate on throttle control (after apex). So, always fix the driving line first, then you can concentrate to other issues.

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Dave Williams, editor, replying here. You should attend the California Superbike School. You will find it very enlightening. While not identical to what Moss is saying here, they do share the principle of positive throttle (not acceleration) throughout the corner (no coasting).

[@deadslow201]

@@catalystreactionsbw Yes, it is very sad that they teach that for beginners. Very sad. Maybe they will enlighten some day and update some of their principles.

[@catalystreactionsbw]

@@deadslow201 Williams replying again. Take the school and then you'll have the experience necessary to determine whether it is "very sad" and needs an "update." California Superbike School has many pro champions to its credit, Leon Camier among them.

[@deadslow201]

@@catalystreactionsbw Are you trying to impress people by throwing some pro champions name around? Sorry, but it does not work that way when the topic was: "Brake-gas-turn." That is very bad and dangerous advice for a beginner. So we are talking about beginners, not pro champions. For beginners priority is to make everything as simple as possible, do not multitask. So do not mix throttle and turn, simple as that. That is why "brake-turn-throttle" works better for a beginner. Separate easy tasks. And that is why there is this exercise "brakeless driving" for beginners, that simplifies the riding even more and takes the brake out of the "brake-turn-throttle".

[@catalystreactionsbw]

@@deadslow201 not at all - interesting that you would take that spin given this is information for people to test and see if it works for them so they can increase their skills. That being said I recognize that exact line of speech from Avatar.

[@vienv1]

Great seeing an expert at work. Tire whisperer!

[@sexdrugsrocknroll420]

Lol

[@illhaveanother4365]

Bike whisperer

[@benvella1728]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but this seems to be doing away with trail braking. My understanding is we load on brakes, initiate a turn as we come off them and eventually abandon them as we begin slow acceleration out of the corner. So it's a brake only, brake turn, turn only (if necessary), turn accel, accel only.

[@catalystreactionsbw]

It is pre trail braking skill set being developed. This is for beginner riders.

[@benvella1728]

@@catalystreactionsbw makes sense and after rereading this I figured it was something like that - great work!

[@slymoonlight]

I don't own a bike but this guy is good.

[@waddney4121]

this guy reminds me of my service manager when I was an apprentice, I wish I'd listened more.

[@jplusosec977]

His videos are very informative and easy to understand. I'v been riding since a young age. Have learned some new stuff. Great job.

[@Ducatista999]

This guy is by far the best coach I have seen. Very knowledgeable and hands on. My absolute dream job if I can ever make money at it. Much more than the track, he’s found ways to save people’s lives on the street by making them more aware of their machines. Keep up the good work Mr Dave Moss.

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Thank you for the kind words Joe. Yes, I am trying to save the life of a rider every day via education and training leveraging the huge resource bank of videos I supply here and on my Dave Moss Tuning website. Thank you sir!

[@ScragNath]

A Brit that's lived in the states a while. The accent can never be hidden. Great post though, cheers.

[@Lou-Lou.]

Ahhh I thought he was aussie 😅

[@Lou-Lou.]

Manchester definitely a fellow brit!

[@CRay-yq3nm]

Brake, then gas, then turn... this is the best way to miss the apex, run wide, and crash.

[@CRay-yq3nm]

Don't crash. Be SAFE, and you will be FASTER: kzbin.info/www/bejne/j5vNn2qOiLCbhNE

[@iancarnell5020]

Great to see his analysis of riding behavior and settings by tyre wear characteristics and something as simple as a cable tie to measure front end dive. Clearly his experience and his ability to set the bike and the rider up is first class. Respect.

[@767dag]

Love how he know what he’s talking about, wish I met him when I was young and thought I could ride

[@supanovamotorsports]

The worst and most dangerous piece of motorcycle coaching advice I have ever heard. Brake/Gas/Turn..... stick to tuning suspension

[@CPUspeed]

Always great to see a new track convert

[@Ionelsa]

This guy is Motorcycle GOD! I will SIMP for him I swear!

[@floydthedroid5935]

Great stuff. But I strongly suggest changing the title to include TRACK motorcycle cornering. Brake gas turn......

[@pjee3975]

Why not trail braking?

[@suipful]

can be used no harm in it. don't loose momentum than required...

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Trail braking is a speed correction if you got the entry speed slightly wrong or if you are making a pass. It has a place, purpose and time as does brakes/gas/turn.

[@catalystreactionsbw]

@@suipful spot on! :)

[@JoacimBoive]

Dave Moss Tuning I think he’s talking about trail braking in another sense. I’ve recently began practicing this myself, taught by my instructor who’s an active racer as well. The idea is that by just braking a tad (one finger slightly touching the brake) at the end of the braking period, approaching your turning point - you’re keeping the forks slightly compressed giving you a steeper angle and hence it’s easier to turn. If you give gas before your turning point the forks will extend and the opposite will occur.

[@catalystreactionsbw]

@@JoacimBoive Correct, and if you go to neutral throttle the bike sits flat evenly loading forks, shock and tires hence throttle roll on being calculated based on entry cornet, exit corner, decreasing radius etc.

[@giantfisher]

20.5 thousand views and only 803 thumb-ups? (#803 is MINE) Harrumph, and I'd like to know what the 11 thumbs down have to moan about. Some piddly stink about the color of the gent's leathers or that Dave held his ratchet in his left hand whilst speaking. Then it begs the question of these ELEVEN (to date) genius-masters: WHY THE F_BLEH don't you have a KZbin channel dispensing all your perfect knowledge in a perfect way?

[@Mgixxer-vi7gr]

I have admired Dave and the entire team for quite some time. I've gotta ask, does the team ever make it to the east coast? I'm specifically curious to know if you ever have or ever will visit New Jersey Motorsports Park? Thanks for the vids and all the knowledge!

[@catalystreactionsbw]

We have been trying and Scott at Moto-D has been asking for the opportunity of a DMT class or two at NJMP but so far the answer is no. That being said, there's nothing stopping a class or seminars being held in NY etc. We just need a venue and that does not need to be a dealership.

[@apriliarider6072]

I would kill to have DMT at NJMP!

[@Mgixxer-vi7gr]

@@apriliarider6072 Aprilia, huh? '17 RF here despite the tag name! U in Jersey?

[@apriliarider6072]

@@Mgixxer-vi7gr WOW another actual real live Ape! I'm from NYC but NJMP is the track I go to. I have a place in Sea Isle City and use that as my jump point for track days. 17RR :) We are a rather rare breed in this neck of the woods my friend. It's really too bad about Dave not being able to get there but my guess is that the track's tight relationship with Markbilt would be a conflict. Ride safe !

[@Mgixxer-vi7gr]

@@apriliarider6072 Yeah, not many on the road around these parts. I'm in central Jersey btw and yes, I agree that it might be a conflict. I'd still like for Dave to make it out here sometime though! Been on both of NJMP tracks a few times but not yet with the V4. Hopefully soon I'll make it down there. Def gonna be there for MotoAmerica in Sept. Hit me up at my tag name @outlook if ur ever down this way. Maybe we could link up sometime! Be safe!

[@jbsprojects8186]

Could you imagine him being your father....hey son been racing? ....uhhhh no dad....let me see those tires....looks at tires ....your grounded and you wheelied ....get in ur room lol....would love to do a track day with him and my BlackBird

[@saleenr6]

gonna lose the front if new rider adds too much gas to the apex

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Dave Williams, editor, replying here. You might find the California Superbike School level one course very enlightening. While not identical to what Moss is teaching here, they have the principle of positive maintenance throttle throughout the corner in common.

[@paulhorvath9784]

Hi Dave,,I have rather a beginner question ,,I weigh app 88 kg in full gear,,I have a 2018 HD Roadster stage 1 weight of app 248 kg wet and just picked up a 2019 Gsxs 750z wet weight of 210 kg,what tyre pressures would you recommend in town riding PLS,? I live in a remote township but fully Intend on getting race track experience here in Australia.. Thank you Sir.Oh,,the Roadster suspension is on the stiffer side and I found after not having checked pressure for while it sat on app 30 ish cold and felt nice and firm and more so when hot..I think 32 cold ,,would be OK ?

[@StarryNightSky587]

that 959 is such a beauty, I would be genuinely afraid to ride it on track. :D

[@adaptiveagile]

Exactly what I was thinking. And no track plastics. The guy has balls.

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Dave Williams, editor, replying here. You may find these of interest. davemosstuning.com/2-clicks-out-panigale-959-suspension-settings/ davemosstuning.com/2-clicks-out-mr-ms-panigale-959/

[@squatsnow]

Hello i subscribed. I ride a gw250 and I wheelie it safely and its so fun. I wear all my gears and enjoy riding alot. Thanks for your awesome content. It really helps

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Thank you for subscribing!

[@nadronnocojr]

This man is a fountain of info wow clear concise and bestows confidence, amazing craftsman

[@shobleyare5983]

Where’s this coach located at best coach I’ve seen

[@catalystreactionsbw]

USA most of their summer, Southern hemisphere most of their summer (Aussie and NZ)

[@jessiequinton9974]

1:19 lmaooo every chick does the same test on her man :P

[@adaptiveagile]

But remember, you must see him after every session.

[@jessiequinton9974]

@@illhaveanother4365 Dw I'm sure ur mom can help with your tiny little prick

[@jessiequinton9974]

@@adaptiveagile lol of course XD

[@suipful]

Though most of the chapters were already covered i loved that you had made it even more easier to understand.. I am getting better in setting up suspension . Mr. Williams awesome edit now i am able to keep up with the info, just crisp to the point. the tyre gradation is still something i am not able to pick up from video (it could be me ;)) I interpret it as using the gas (throttle) early on the turn ... = Break - Gas (throttle) - Turn

[@christopherkearney3869]

I wish he was my dad 😍😍😍

[@nikolaarandjelovic246]

I don't understand why there are some offensive comments... First, I doubt that there's any of us that could argue with Dave about suspension... I think thats pretty clear. Second, offensive comments about Dave giving advices how to ride on track... This guy proved himself in the races, he spends 2/3 of the year or more on race track. So, this is the guy you want on your team when going on track. Those offenses just don't stand

[@randomdriving344]

This is completely wrong and you don't even need to adjust suspension for that what you teaching him for that "brake then gas then turn"

[@richard8088]

Dear Dave, in almost every motorcycle race i know of, riders brake them bikes during cornering a few meters in front of the Apex. You are telling a whole different story by making people brake before turning... can you explain this for me ??? i'm from Holland so i might miss interpret what you're saying here. Kind regards Richard

[@JeffreyHyun]

I'm really confused by this. I just finished my 7th day and have been using braking to compress the front for turn in and trail braking to help with maintaining the radius. Then neutral throttle by the time I hit apex. If I'm off the bake and driving (slightly more than neutral) into the apex and the front is less sprung, wouldn't it force me out wide? Do you compensate with harder turn in?

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Thanks for your comment. Generally trail braking is used for decreasing radius and entry corners or for correcting entry speed on exit corners. Sometimes we use trail braking to hide fork rebound issues so we make sure the bike gets to apex. You are using a technique where you are methodically increasing throttle so the forks slowly extend. As such, you cannot run wide. This technique does the same thing in terms of throttle roll on. It just gets the chassis balanced a little earlier.

[@KyleWyman33]

Jeffrey H - not everything you see on the internet is true. You're on the right path with your current riding. His claim that trail braking is just a correction for fork issues is absolute rubbish and only job security for a suspension tuner. Continue on your path of adjustability and repeatability in your riding.

[@preylist6419]

@@KyleWyman33 he said fork extension not fork issue. trail braking into corner with getting back on the throttle together prevents fork extention being too strong; such as in situations where the front fork isnt loaded. it keeps ur radius, lean angle, and tractions in check, which is also why the op is even using it to begin with.

[@noseandfins1]

i rode 5 years with occasional track days and i dont understand brake, gas and turn. Is this for beginner? I usually just trail brake most of the time on the track and conservative on the street

[@catalystreactionsbw]

It is one of many ways to ride a motorcycle around a track based on experience and engine size.

[@robertkacala]

break gas turn ...with so much electronic on this Panigale shouldn't be a problem ;)

[@lostinsdf]

Dave came to PIR in Oregon and help me set up my SV650. I had already been racing the bike and even scored a few podiums and a win. But I was fighting the bike and didn't even realize it until Dave set up the bike. He always treats you the same whether you are a competitive racer or first time Track day rider. If Dave is at your track take the time to work with him. Have a notebook at the ready. Thanks Dave! Ian #135

[@jaywhoisit4863]

I’m a duel sport guy but I found this video extremely interesting

[@frenchiechanel64]

Thank you Dave for sharing your knowledge and expertise . Specially when you mention about wobble to give some gas and steady.

[@travishellmer8987]

Damn, I wanna pay this guy just for watching this video.... Very educational.

[@clashcityrocker2051]

Interesting!!!!!! I’ve heard from an experienced rider to let the bike corner with no throttle …….. Get the braking out the way, don’t trail brake but use the lowest gear(suitable for each corner) to keep engine braking, then get on throttle to exit turn… simples😉

[@one959]

He makes his point then moves on. I respond well to this type of teaching. Thx for posting !

[@tonypate9174]

So not "knock it down chuck it in scrag it out" then on track days...what next no "kippers for breakfast"...just Pop Tarts ?

[@johndillon5290]

Wow, what a knowledgeable guy, very impressive.

[@steelcityspeedshopj.r6942]

I want DW fired! 😂 just kidding awesome vids you guys ! Big big fan and i have learned ALOT

[@evanogrady538]

Sounds more like a high side recipe with a side of broken bones. I would recommend you watch Simon Crafar's videos before you try this!

[@ChaseN194]

They said the same to Marquez. Highsides come when you are effectively going fast and pushing limits. No one ever won races without pushing their limits.

[@jessiedivincenzo5215]

I think he is stating maintenance throttle as early as possible, not ham fisting it at full lean. At least that is what I gather, and nothing Dave says here will lead to high sides unless it's misconstrued as you have done.

[@Epeeen]

Physics people! Great lesson here and well taught.

[@Brainwashedmorons69]

I personally would invest in aftermarket body work, for the crash that will inevitably happen. I'm surprised he's not wearing a orange t-shirt.

[@davidwendel6080]

This is Buttonwillow? Hears him say ‘wheelie bump’ Yep, that’s buttonwillow

[@chipspalding7594]

This makes me sad. Mr Moss should know better. Brake (Load), let off brakes (unload) lean (load), gas (unload). Up down, up down, up down....doesn’t work. Fall down, go boom.

[@catalystreactionsbw]

Dave MoFo Williams replying here. THE Chip Spalding?!!! Fantastic! Better late than never... but still way late to the party. Already been through this. Plus you got the sequence wrong up there. You described the CA SBK School sequence. The idea that Moss wouldn't know better is precious tho. You've got some comment reading to do. Try again afterwards.

[@chipspalding7594]

@@catalystreactionsbw THE Dave Williams!! I hope you are doing well. I think you hitched your trailer to the wrong horse in this argument. If you are on the gas, the front forks are extended and the front contact patch is at its smallest, if you add lean angle to an unloaded front tire at any kind of decent pace, you fall down and go boom. Dave Moss is a smart dude. He should know better.

[@catalystreactionsbw]

@@chipspalding7594 Williams again. He wins lots of races and championships doing it. Never falls down doing it. Neither did the guys in this video. What's funny is that you think a guy with his racing and tuning experience doesn't "know better."

[@chipspalding7594]

@@catalystreactionsbw - Dave Williams - Which races did he win? Who did he beat? Why doesn't he tune for professional riders?

[@streetgliderichie9724]

Man! This guy is brilliant! What an opportunity these guys had to work with such an expert and wonderful coach. Cheers!

[@jimmyguy6300]

People should really go look at what top riders do at the highest level and what is taught at Yamaha Champ School. This is really bad advice. You should be trail braking not braking then gas then turn.

[@tonypate9174]

Be having "kippers for breakfast" next that'll sort the men from the Alpinestars Dainese vomit clad Ninja Womble Teletubbie "street" Rossi types ....with all that how to handle a knife and fork and them small "bones" ....will ever make it to the in slow out fast bit ....never mind balls to the wall ride the wheels off it ...

[@ljgarrison6910]

Fantastic work; and the dude with the glasses was so fantastic with his listening and progression, proud dude right there and soaking in the knowledge of god.