Catastrophic Narrowboat Engine Malfunction !!!

Hot and bothered was the 1964 Gardner 4LK diesel engine as we happily cruised along. On day two of our holiday on the Leicester section of the Grand Union canal near to Norton Junction we broke down. Water was pooring out of the engine header tank and down the wall. There was a strong smell of burning antifreeze. Catastrophic situation, would our holiday end here ?
On a television programme some years ago, called WaterWorld, a hire boat broke down with engine problems. The people on the narrowboat rang the hire base to report the fault and said "we have a catastrophic engine malfunction". This has has always stuck in our minds whenever something is not quite right with the engine of any boat we are on.

[@geraldgean2834]

What most likely happened was when you did the coolant service 2 days previous to this issue, you inadvertently created a "bubble" behind the thermostat, so very little if any coolant made contact with the thermostat spring. I always checked for a "bleed hole" in the thermostat. If there is not a bleed hole, the coolant can't get past to contact the spring. I hope this makes sense, and if not, please comment and I'll see if I can clarify further. To make sure this doesn't happen again, just loosen the sensor for the temp gauge, and let liquid run out until the coolant comes out, which ensures that there is coolant contacting the spring on the thermostat. I hope this helps. Cheers

[@lifeisbetterwithaboatandad1534]

Interesting, I had not thought about that. Thanks for your advice and comment much appreciated.

[@samuelfellows6923]

@@lifeisbetterwithaboatandad1534 - which means you have a spare thermostat, when the replacement eventually breaks 😁

[@davidsedlickas8222]

Thanks very much for your time and efforts to produce your volgs. Very interesting about sorting out the overheating problems.

[@lifeisbetterwithaboatandad1534]

Many thanks for watching, and your kind comment. Due to other commitments I am often slow to reply.

[@user-kb1ir7dy8j]

What a wonderful old engine , a real beauty

[@lifeisbetterwithaboatandad1534]

Thank you for your comment, much appreciated.

[@paulwilson3083]

It had to be the thermostat, it is very rare a Gardner lets you down, I've known them do a million and a half miles in lorries without problems and they were flat out all day long working hard, if they are still building diesels in a hundred years time they will never be as good as a Gardner.

[@lifeisbetterwithaboatandad1534]

Thank you for your interest and comment Paul. The engine started easily after not running for 10 months in July this year. I wish that I had a thermometer to hand to check when it opened. Should have checked against the new one before fitting it. Fingers crossed no long term damage. Regards Simon.

[@billalbion]

then why is Gardner no more if they are that good. in their day great engines but management refused to move with the times and the demand for more power from road and marine users. Gardner could not stand turbocharging, new designs were needed but old Hugh Gardner would not move. When lorry regs required 6bhp per gross ton Gardner could not accommodate, ERF then recommended Cummins over Gardner. Pure bad management ruined Gardner and many other British industries including Leyland.Militant unions didn't help. If they had only looked at the European imports, it was no secret what was happening.

[@pirate259]

Great video....I did a lot of work on the old Gardner 180 they had on the pirate radio ship Radio Caroline, way back in the day...Thanks for posting....

[@lifeisbetterwithaboatandad1534]

Hi Peter, many thanks for watching and your comment. My wife remembers Radio Caroline, I will have to look up the Gardner 180. Sounds like a very interesting job to have done. I do not know if the thermostat was original or replaced about 20 years ago when the engine was rebuilt. New ones are about £295 I think.

[@pirate259]

@@lifeisbetterwithaboatandad1534 Job was great fun. Wow £295, we used to buy them for pennies back in the 1970's....Hope you get it sorted..

[@HerfingPug]

Bloody marvellous.

[@lifeisbetterwithaboatandad1534]

Thank you.

[@ivanrowland6353]

Speed up the thermostat test with boiling kettle water , but hey who needs a thermostat in a Gardner 😁 Nice looking engine and boat 👍

[@lifeisbetterwithaboatandad1534]

Great point! Many thanks for your comment.

[@Shaggy.242]

OoH! Look, someone has left their rubbish on the towpath Frank.

[@lifeisbetterwithaboatandad1534]

Thanks for your comment.

[@johngrosshans1040]

If you even suspect a bad thermostat replace it with a new one. Part can’t be so expensive you can’t use that as a diagnostic.

[@lifeisbetterwithaboatandad1534]

Good advice, thanks. The thermostat as fitted by Gardner to replace with new is £300 , ouch!

[@stottybox3185]

Tend to agree with gerald, everything was fine till the cooling system was disturbed, most likely an air lock, you saw the old thermostat was working when it was tested.

[@lifeisbetterwithaboatandad1534]

Many thanks for your advice. I had problems with an air lock before when I changed the coolant. I hoped fitting an air bleed valve on the top hose would have cured this. I will get a thermometer to check when the thermostat opens more accurately.

[@Kitfoxmk1]

I have a Narrowboat with a Gardner 4lk not very far away from you, Just up from Braunston. Made me think, a couple of years ago I had the coolant changed by an engineer, I had the injectors out for refurbishment so he wasn’t able to start it and circulate the coolant. When I first used it, it overheated, we thought perhaps just an airlock, turned out it was the thermostat so from what you described possibly the same happened to mine. Your engine looked beautiful, I’d like to compare notes sometime. KR colin

[@lifeisbetterwithaboatandad1534]

Thankyou Colin for your experience on this and advice. I would welcome sharing notes on this engine. As I do not live aboard and due to the lockdown rules at present I cannot visit the boat and I suspect this will be the case for several months. I fitted an air bleed (the brass fitting) and the gano filter (clear plastic fitting) two years ago after changing the coolent as the pipe from the thermostat housing then goes downwards to the first skin tank and can trap air. I did this so I could tell if the coolent was circulating and to bleed air from the highest point in the system. This works removing air. I was careful this time in bleeding air and had travelled for a three hours over two days. I believe the engine was rebuilt around 2000 ish so the thermostat could be at least 20 years old. Also the coolent was rust coloured two years ago so a lack of maintenance in changing in the past.

[@NarrowboatWill]

Interesting vlog.

[@lifeisbetterwithaboatandad1534]

Glad you found it so, thanks for watching and your comment. I have watched many of your vlogs and have found them interesting and entertaining, regards Simon.

[@garymills7494]

A standard automotive thermostat, available from any motor factors.

[@lifeisbetterwithaboatandad1534]

Great point, as long as its stamped at 60 degrees.

[@garymills7494]

60 degrees seems very low. You need to get the coolant up to around 75 degrees to evaporate any unburnt fuel and also to evaporate condensate...

[@NarrowboatWill]

That tunnel is weird to go through. It feels like you are going backwards.

[@lifeisbetterwithaboatandad1534]

Thanks Will for noticing. I probably was.

[@NarrowboatPreciousJet]

Is this what we were discussing at Sutton wharf the other day or has it happened again.??

[@lifeisbetterwithaboatandad1534]

Hi, this is the breakdown we talked about when we met at Sutton Wharf. I think I was very lucky if no engine damage occured through overheating. Could do with guages in view when at the tiller. I can see the coolent level in the header tank when steering and I continue to monitor that. Enjoyed your video on the Ashby canal and travels with Precious Jet. Thanks for your comment, best wishes for your travels on such a beautiful boat and your channel.

[@samuelfellows6923]

🤭 😯 - that is a bit strange/concerning that the coolant tank discharges hot coolant/steam into the boat interior, you’d think that they would have a emergency - pressure relief/overheat valve on the pump side of the thermostat/on the coolant tank, this would dump into a second tank that is removable/has a drain plug, that would have another pipe coming out it’s top into the roof, with a cowl on top, steam would spew out of it, indicating to the person steering the boat that the engine is overheating ⚠️. That would be a more sensible design 😉

[@lifeisbetterwithaboatandad1534]

Your comments and suggestions are brilliant ! I will have to get someone to build the second tank and associated pipework. Perhaps a whistle where the steam comes out on the roof ? Great to inform other boats that the engine has overheated and is out of control. Hopefully the boat has not sunk yet with the rain, snow and leaking stern gland. If it has not I will work on your suggestions. Many thanks.

[@johnwilson6298]

No coolant temperature alarm fitted.?

[@BurninWires]

A tough watch

[@lifeisbetterwithaboatandad1534]

Thanks for watching and your comment.

[@stephenfloat1260]

Why didnt you pick up the rubbish ? It would have taken 2 minutes and kept the canals you use tidy . Just saying.

[@lifeisbetterwithaboatandad1534]

Thanks for your comment, you're right, we should have done. I was lined up for the tunnel entrance when I spotted it, but I could have stopped.

[@LarryButler-kp3se]

BOAT - Doing repairs in exotic places using parts at twice the price...

[@lifeisbetterwithaboatandad1534]

Thanks for watching and your comment.

[@stuartheaton6134]

I suspect you have an airlock in the system. You shoud hava vent line from the engine side of the thermost on the top of the thermostat housing to to top of the header tank. This should allow aboy 3 percent of the water to flow continuously it is often called a de-aeration line. The water then returns through the fill line. Look at a moderntruck installation, thats what you will find.

[@lifeisbetterwithaboatandad1534]

Thanks for your great advice. I keep looking for a joint so that I can do this. I need a T joint that is 1.5 inches by 1.5 inches by 15mm. Apologies for the delay in replying.

[@stuartheaton6134]

There is a plug on top of the thermostat housing looks about 5mm, that is big enough. Run a small pipe from there to the header tank and enter above the normal water level.

[@stuartheaton6134]

When the system works you will find that the air in your clear tube will disappear in the next few hours..

[@Bluenoser613]

Well at least if anything happens in a canal you're only feet away from the shore.

[@lifeisbetterwithaboatandad1534]

Yes, and I have fallen in a few times after slipping.

[@khadijagwen]

Perhaps a spare is in order?

[@lifeisbetterwithaboatandad1534]

A very good idea. I will get one. Thank you for watching and your comment.

[@torepres]

@@lifeisbetterwithaboatandad1534 No need. They only break down every 50 years.

[@AA-69]

DON'T BLAME THE POOR OLD GARDNER....BLAME THE TOOL THAT OWNS IT !!

[@lifeisbetterwithaboatandad1534]

Many thanks for your comment. I do wish that I had been an engineer. Sorry for the slow reply.

[@pswright2285]

Water expands? ;-)

[@invagina1110]

I too thinking air pocket, so many ups and downs nooks and crannys for a air pocket, bleed and bleed again.

[@lifeisbetterwithaboatandad1534]

Yes, I am sure you are right. I have changed the coolant again since and I did not have any problems afterwards. Sorry for the very slow reply.

[@torepres]

Nice old engine, a buty and with care it may run forever.

[@lifeisbetterwithaboatandad1534]

Fingers crossed it will continue to run without too many issues.

[@torepres]

@@lifeisbetterwithaboatandad1534 The thermostat was nothing to blame the Gardner engine.

[@cyrilkirkham3106]

Gardner. The.best.engi nes.ever.made.4lk.lw.engines

[@lifeisbetterwithaboatandad1534]

The engine is not as favoured as the 2LW and 3LW which sound nice to the ear. The boat is overpowered on the canals. On the rivers she can run above tick over and sounds better.

[@thedolphin5428]

1. It wasn't really "catastrophic". It was just a brief overheat episode, lol, which every marine engine gets from time to time! So was your headline clickbait or neuroticism? 2. The best solution is an early warning buzzer when temp goes over a set heat, say 85° ... before engine water EXPANDS to overflow the header tank. Also, your header tank overflow should drain to either outside the hull or into the engine drip tray ... not out the filler cap!!! 3. Two options: (a) small cheap thermocouple (pick your temp -- 75, 80, 85, 90 degrees) is stuck on the hottest metal of your motor as the -12v switch, say near exhaust water, and +12v to a buzzer in your dashboard. (b) a cheap ebay temp sensor and alarm PCB will both show any climbing temp and can activate an audible alarm or even shut off motor at set temp, BELOW any overflow event.

[@stephenfloat1260]

Not really a catastrophic failure is it ! If the engine ran up or seized that would catastrophic 😇

[@lifeisbetterwithaboatandad1534]

I thought I may have caused some damage at the time, but hopefully not. Many thanks for your comment.

[@jimkirwin770]

What is catastrophic about a thermostat failure..Fit a new one clean up and get going. Your title is misleading.. We expected to see at least a seized engine until we saw it was a Gardner. Frankly. you need to re-position the engine gauges to the driving position so you can monitor the engine. Hope you never get a puncture .. The video would be longer than Ben-Hur..

[@lifeisbetterwithaboatandad1534]

Thanks for your comment. There was a television series some years ago called Water World. On holiday on a hire boat a family had an overheating engine or it would not start. They rang up the hire base and said that they had " a catastrophic engine failure". I thought this was funny and at the time the overheating engine to us on our second day of our holiday when there had been months that we could not go boating was catastrophic. Also the replacement cost of a Gardner thermostat is £300.

[@richardmcgowan3696]

@@lifeisbetterwithaboatandad1534 gosh that’s a big amount, did the reduction ring and thermostat you bought cost less

[@gasman4451]

Sorry but the only catastrophic part of this video is your droning voice

[@ebujvt65]

Where's the dog

[@lifeisbetterwithaboatandad1534]

Sleeping at the time of filming.