Catching up on BOAT PROJECTS in Myrtle Beach

[@SchoandJo]

Thanks for watching our video! Please check the KZbin description if you’re curious about when this video was filmed. Find out how much the Great Loop Costs: schoandjo.com/great-loop-expenses/ Want to keep up with us in real-time? Sign up for our weekly email to be filled in our current cruising plans and adventures. schoandjo.com/sunday-summary Do you have recommendations for future stops along America’s Great Loop? Please share them with us here! bit.ly/great-loop-recommendations

[@rogermagill3779]

We have found that the “On-Off” product is by far the easiest and most effective way to remove the brown “mustache” on the hull and dinghy.

[@SchoandJo]

Thanks Roger - we haven't tried that but lemon juice has worked like a charm. Don't even need to rub it in!

[@mikepctp]

... a hint to help with bilge sludge: pour a bottle of "Lestoil" in there... if need be: add a gallon of water as well... cruise around a while... keep your eye on the level in there but if possible: don't run your pump until after she's had a good slosh around and had time to break the shtuff down... it will break down the sludge, neutralize and oil/fuel residue, mix up and then you can pump it out. Pour one in every month or so and soon she'll be clean in a couple of months! Smells like Pine too so unless you don't like that scent: it doesn't hurt. :)

[@SchoandJo]

Great idea! We tried that with dish soap, it helped a bit, but maybe something stronger to break down the residue is better. Thank for the recommendation!

[@alinthekeys]

Hull on the dingy , us -on and off hull cleaner , keep it off the tubes. It’s Magical,you’ll love it.

[@SchoandJo]

Sweet, thanks for the recommendation Al!

[@merc9193]

To turn the dinghy bottom white again, go to Dollar Tree and get it works toiletbowl cleaner. I buy a spray bottle too. Spray it on and wait a few minutes it will be white again, rinse it off thoroughly. for $2 you can do all of your water line on the trawler too. you have to get it at the dollar store though, it's stronger. you will be amazed.

[@thelakesidedivas3864]

What a long day for you two. Thanks for showing the reality of maintaining a boat.

[@SchoandJo]

Thank you for watching!!

[@russellclarke6855]

Hi Elliott, as mentioned below the cycling of the pump can be caused by the water running back from a long hose after the pump switches off and switching it on again, it can go on forever. Before you spend money on a new pump which may not fix the problem test it by fitting a short hose into a bucket, you may be able to fix it by replacing a non return valve or a better option is to adjust how the outlet hose runs so less water runs back.

[@SchoandJo]

Thanks for the tip Russell! This pump was designed to run for a bit and then turn back on later if there is a gap between the sensor telling it has water. It'll default to running every 3 minutes if something is wrong with the sensor... we ended up scrapping the pump for a new one and the newer models come with a sort of check valve so there isn't any water that comes back into the bilge after it has pumped out just like you are mentioning!

[@brianflanagan4889]

And the complainant hot jelly is great!

[@SchoandJo]

Sooooo goood! The sweet preserve is good too (what we had this time) 😁

[@larrywalters7609]

I have an older boat and live in Myrtle Beach, I use Starbrite Instant Hull Cleaner Gel Formula Works great, Walmart carries it in the fishing department

[@holgerlafrenz2895]

I can tell you're a good boat owner. When you walk around the boat and notice details to fix. Boats and houses always have projects, you're never done. Pick the most important ones. Keep up the good work!

[@SchoandJo]

Right on! Thanks Holger!

[@mvfridaynight4718]

Ahhhh the necessary evil of boat life! Loved the video and also loved Osprey Marina, so quaint, beautiful and also reasonable! Be Safe guys!

[@SchoandJo]

Haha can't only be fun and exploring 😁 Thanks for watching y'all!

[@COPPER71]

Hey I thought because I'm watching your series from the beginning that I would give you another tidbit of advice Go through all of your hoses on your engine and exhaust and some of your plumbing that's very important along with your bilge and make sure you have double stainless steel hose clamps and that none of it is leaking

[@SchoandJo]

Good advice!

[@johnduffy532]

I’d love it if Elliot would show the bilge pump when it was still connected in the bilge and then when he reconnected it. He talked about it more than he photographed the actual repair. We always enjoy your videos and appreciate their high quality.

[@SchoandJo]

Probably should have filmed more there but a combination of being exhausted from the long day as well as the bilge on Pivot being in a very tight spot led to less filming than normal! If you have any specific questions let us know! Thanks John 🤙

[@johnduffy532]

I can only imagine how tired I’d be after all those tasks, Don’t wear your self out, and “keep on trucking”, I mean boating!

[@SchoandJo]

@@johnduffy532 Haha thanks! it was a long one but so fulfilling to get work crossed off the list!!

[@keithjmclaren]

Your dinghy discoloration is most likely a tea stain from the tannic rivers you have been in. I had tea stains on a boat I took through the dismal swamp and I was never able to get the bottom 100% back to its original color. As mentioned, oxalic acid will help quite a bit. That’s the active ingredient in bartenders friend. I only use the spray version on my fiberglass. (Which version is like a religious debate worth googling!) the powder is the best for stainless on the boat and on your stainless pots and pans. Thanks for this great channel. Love your adventures and your lust for life. Reach out when your back around to south east Florida and we’ll show you around Boca Raton and Delray Beach!

[@SchoandJo]

Very interesting to hear there is some debate on the different versions 😂 Thanks for the tip and sounds great!

[@steveandereggen3182]

Glad to see you getting great helpful comments for your projects. There is so much "experienced" information with other boating friends. Being "old fashioned" we didn't have ear buds, but enjoyed doing our boat projects with, in Alaskan waters we called sunny music. We had a real stereo with speakers inside and outside the boat. We didn't have to worry about offending other boaters back then, they never got offended by the music we played, boaters near or at dock would even dance to our wonderful tunes. We played up-beat Hawaiian, Caribbean, Beach Boys music and our projects danced by in a positive way. In the good days music on a boat was a happy boat, with dancing on dockside and boat decks. Anyway, look at your projects in a more positive manner, you are lovingly taking care of your beautiful home on the water. You meals, as always are something to look forward to. Hugs for Ollie. Aloha!

[@SchoandJo]

Sounds like a fun time back in the day and a great community at your docks! Will give Ollie all the hugs! Thanks for watching Steve 🤙 Aloha!

[@BobEstler]

FYI the best brush for boat cleaning is one on a pole, it gives you leverage to "lean in" on tough spots and is much less tiring.

[@SchoandJo]

Thanks!

[@suzanneaydelotte801]

I always like a project when it’s DONE! 🤣 It does make me feel good to see the end result(s)! You two got a lot done! I loved Ollie’s comments…made me smile and laugh! I hope you got the bilge pump issue resolved…the mom in me doesn’t want to see you three have any issues. 💞 I really enjoyed seeing the other side of boat life. Keep traveling safe!

[@SchoandJo]

Thanks, Suzanne! We did get the bilge pump resolved but not without a LOT of stress (which you'll see in a later video). It's all part of the process I guess! 😁😁😁

[@suzanneaydelotte801]

Yep, it seems that life just needs to throw in curve balls. Glad it’s all good now!

[@rayvagabond3429]

Use a product called on off. Just wear gloves as it has a small amount of acid in it. It's also great for cleaning bow mustache staining. Rinse well with the hose when done. Hope to see ya'll on the Chesapeake soon.

[@SchoandJo]

Sweet, thanks for the tip Ray! We are looking forward to the Chesapeake 😁

[@eternitysshore]

I agree with Ray. I’ve used ON OFF with great success

[@larrybuse6254]

Great video, I like boat work, since y’all were doing it.

[@SchoandJo]

Haha!

[@12000Jetlag]

Good plan to haul the dinghy out of the water instead of towing it. Anything you drag behind you is costing you fuel. There is a product called ON/OFF that will take the stain off the bottom of Fred.

[@phillipmullis7904]

Hi Elliott I see others have all ready asked about a inline check valve on the bilge pump. As far as another pump it would not hurt to have two. One mounted a little higher then the other as back up if one did not work. As far as the leak check the stuffing box next time you are under way to see if water is coming in around the shaft. Boat projects It’s better then working in a office on a pretty day.

[@SchoandJo]

100% agree that boat projects beat office work!! We do have a backup automatic bilge pump and a high water alarm, but I'm pretty sure the sensor is busted on this primary. According to the manual, if the sensor keeps sensing water but doesn't fully pump it out, it is supposed to cycle every 3 minutes... every 2 seconds is not in the manual and I think an issue!!

[@georgerobertson3833]

Always used lemon juice to clean the dinghy and the beard on the hull, works great

[@SchoandJo]

Cool! Will check it out - interesting to hear so many lemon juice recommendations 😁

[@COPPER71]

I know you know this now but pulling anything behind a boat kind of acts like a sea anchor and does create drag dropping your speed sometimes even changing your maneuverability.. for haul cleaning The best stuff I've ever come across was called on and off and you can get it at West Marine

[@ClassXIRoads]

Good day of boat chores, Elliott, you should solder and then heat shrink your wire connections, those crimps will haunt you down the waterway, soldering is easy once you learn not to burn your fingers, little flux and a solder iron. Olly looked to be doing a great job keeping ya'll lined out.

[@SchoandJo]

Thanks James! Never really thought to solder the wires together, I do have the equipment and have done it before (not on boats though). Ollie is a fantastic supervisor 😁

[@captainrosie6738]

Soldering wires on a boat is not recommended as far as I know, something to due with the salt air and the Flux and soft lead. I believe it is frowned upon by the ABYC.

[@ClassXIRoads]

@@captainrosie6738 I stand corrected I am old school and you are right i reviewed the ABYC recommendations and due to vibrations they do recommend crimping even if soldered. Thank you for pointing it out to me.

[@76captaint]

Mary Kate On/Off works like a dream for the water stains.

[@SchoandJo]

Thanks for the recommendation Tony!

[@ericfontana2092]

oxalic acid will clean the dinghy bottom - it is also called “wood bleach” at a hardware store / home depot

[@SchoandJo]

Sweet - thanks for the recommendation Eric!

[@tedbethwarnock4698]

Just remember…. “This tooooo….. Is yachting!” FunFun, well done, & GoodOnYa ya’ll

[@SchoandJo]

haha "this too... is yachting" 😂😂 Safe cruising tomorrow!

[@jonathanbradley6819]

Comet or Soft Scrub might help with the dingy. Also the bilge pump, some of the automatic pumps go on and off every so often even if water isn't there. This can cause a low battery or burn out the motor. It might be best to get an a bilge pump with either and internal or external float.

[@SchoandJo]

Thanks for the advice Jonathan ! We appreciate it 🤙

[@ldirk58601]

This may have been said already in your comments but perhaps a mr muscle cleaning eraser would work for cleaning Freds bottom 🤭 I just use a generic brand. It would be nice for no chemicals in the water and they really do work on so many things.

[@peterinsyracuse7056]

Re the stains on the dinghy hull... there are many 'hull cleaner' products on-line or at boat stores. These work great, but wear gloves/goggles, they are mild acid and will sting the skin. Any organic type stain will just rinse or wipe off. Works great on fiberglass, read label to see if safe for rubber dingy tubes.

[@SchoandJo]

Great point Peter!

[@kenvanderveer623]

Realemon, straihjt out of the bottle will clean up thoses stains. I bleach my tile floors with it, and it works wonders!

[@jurassicporkchop4162]

All the hard work...Yuck, but necessary. Eating pizza however, is very important in life. ha. Loved your video as always. I also followed you two on Instagram. Woo Hoo.

[@SchoandJo]

Eating pizza is one of the most important things in life!! 😁

[@jacktyler7599]

I would call those scuppers, Elliot.

[@SchoandJo]

Scuppers! Cool, thanks for sharing!!

[@kennylask1993]

Try using “the works” tub and tile cleaner on the yellow dinghy’s bottom. Squirt/spray it on, let it sit 60seconds and the yellow will vanish then rinse. If that does not work, try “On and Off.

[@SchoandJo]

Sweet, will take a look - thanks Kenny!

[@AdventuresOfDanandSue]

MaryKate on and off hull cleaner is perfect for cleaning the stained on your dinghy.... Works great

[@softballbryan]

This is the correct answer... excellent and a little goes a long way... I use a boat brush and a bucket.. add the acid, then rub onto surface... 1 minute later spray then clean surface with soap and water... it's strong stuff but makes for simple and good results.

[@SchoandJo]

Thanks Dan! Will give it a shot!

[@nunya4244]

Lemon juice works great on the boat's "mustache" and might work as well for Fred's grime. Simple Green might be worth a try, too.

[@miked5563]

Don't waste your time with keeping it clean...hoist it up or slap some bottom paint on.

[@SchoandJo]

Thanks, we'll give it a shot!

[@CombatDoc54]

For mold and mildew on Fred or any surface, I use "30 Seconds" from Walmart. 10 dollars for a concentrated gallon. Literally, spray on, rinse off.

[@SchoandJo]

Neat, will check it out - thanks for sharing!

[@TLee-kt5ff]

Use On-Off to get stains off dinghy bottom. You can get it at any marine store.

[@SchoandJo]

Awesome - will check it out!

[@pap91rt50]

The holes on the bulwark are called scuppers. Hard to figure those bilge pumps. They go away for no reason. I try to exercise the ones in the bilge every month..so far...so good.. Keep truckin!!! Cheers

[@miked5563]

You need to have a back up for all major systems....bilge goes out...order one is not first option....replace and order another.

[@SchoandJo]

Thanks Larry! Yea this one has been a pain, a good idea to exercise it though!

[@johnsummers9434]

Dingy :- Baking soda, use vinegar to activate it should bubble a little, after which you can wipe down. Leave it on for couple hours if you can and it'll probably go brown as it lifts stains. Oxalic crystals work too, very good at removing dark stains from wood.

[@SchoandJo]

Cool! Thanks for the recommendations John!!

[@jonvardaman868]

The cheapest toilet bowl cleaner at Dollar General will remove the yellow stains from dingy and Pivot. Just spray on let soak for about 30 seconds. Sponge off before it dries on hull. Works. I promise

[@SchoandJo]

Thanks for the recommendation Jon!

[@barelyafloatwithsteve3975]

Hi Guys, Fred Cleans Up Nicely ... I would try liquid or mild rubbing compound on the bottom of the Dinghy, then a Coat of Wax for Pretection. Have Fun and Stay Safe ‼️🙂

[@SchoandJo]

Thanks for the recommendation Steve!

[@Janchez]

Regarding the leak the worst would be your exhaust hose has a small crack, exhaust outlet on the transom, bolts for the swim platform supports or maybe the stuffing box for the rudder but I think that is above the waterline. It may only leak under certain conditions like crossing a big wake. One of you needs to watch for water coming in the lazerette while the other runs the boat in reverse. That maybe the fastest way to find anything on the transom failing. Other thought is bad hose on a thru hull, can't tell from the video what aft thru hulls the boat has.

[@SchoandJo]

Thanks for the recommendations Jan! I think we will try that about the lazarette and backing up... whatever it is, its a slow leak - one of the most frustrating!

[@SchoandJo]

Thanks for the recommendations Jan! I think we will try that about the lazarette and backing up... whatever it is, its a slow leak - one of the most frustrating!

[@Stevo-063]

I'm hoping that one dodgy bilge pump isn't all you have? Always smart to have permanent manual pumps and multiple electric or hydraulic pumps. They say a frightened sailors with 2 gallon buckets are the best pumps but safe engineering can avoid testing that option. Commercial vessels require manual and mechanical bilge pumps in each compartment. Love the story so far.

[@SchoandJo]

Always a back up! For us backup A) is our high water alarm and high-water bilge pump, backup B) is manually pumping, we have several on board although they are not fixed, backup C) (similar to B) are buckets!

[@haroldconnell2973]

Always jobs to be done on a boat, good work

[@SchoandJo]

Thanks Harold!!

[@adamwhitaker4713]

Mary Kate on and off hull cleaner to remove brown water stains, we use on our dinghy every 6 months or so

[@SchoandJo]

Thanks Adam!

[@hansvankeulen2028]

Check the bolts on swim platform brackets , they go through th transom. That might be where your salt water is coming from, may need to recalk the bolt wholes

[@SchoandJo]

Will look into it! I presume, if they are leaking that we'll have to fix it while hauled? Thanks for the tip Hans!

[@hansvankeulen2028]

@@SchoandJo maybe just tightening them will help,or try some under water sellents to get you to your next halibut. Let me know when you find the leak.Happy Cruising.

[@brianflanagan4889]

Say hi to Miles! Great people at Osprey Marina.

[@johnmarschalk1977]

So Fred's bottom was nasty, but he's not been in water as long as Pivot since last haul out! Maybe when you get in fresh water it will kill some of the growth. Ollie looks like she's using her on board potty as another cozy sleeping space. Oh well, you tried

[@SchoandJo]

Hopefully... we may pull pivot to do zincs and a few coats of bottom paint if we have some time soon! Thanks for watching John!

[@robertlime8968]

Second vote for lemon juice. Don’t dilute it, and apply it with a spray bottle. It will take off the wax, but it usually removes the stain without much work.

[@SchoandJo]

Sweet, thanks Robert!

[@Misc665]

The works toilet bowl cleaner on the dink. Be sure to rinse thoroughly when done (and use proper PPE).

[@SchoandJo]

Thanks Andrew! A few recommendations for toilet cleaner, might give it a shot!

[@Janchez]

Soft Scrub or Comet Cleanser for dinghy and hull. Dinghy could use a keel protector, looks like a wear spot. Over time it will get thinner and thinner then leak.

[@SchoandJo]

Never heard about "keel protectors" thanks for sharing! We were considering doing some fiberglass repair work to it too.

[@Janchez]

@@SchoandJo It's basically a rubber or vinyl type strip you glue to the keel.

[@amandabortello505]

Big day, sleep tight.🙃

[@SchoandJo]

💤🐑😁

[@BobEstler]

You should schedule a work party. Invite your viewers over to sand paint and clean. Break it down into teams and have someone experienced lead each team.

[@SchoandJo]

I like the way you think 😁

[@pierrelachance8049]

We used concentrated lemon juice for removing the stains on our boat.

[@SchoandJo]

Used to use that when I was cleaning grills at a previous job - never thought about bringing it onto the boat. Thanks Pierre for the recommendation!

[@frankrice5364]

Put some bottom paint on Fred

[@Vegvisir_Oceanis]

About the bilge pump going on every 3 seconds. Might be the fact that you don't have a one-way valve in the hose, which makes the last jit of water through the pump when it stops actually Flow back into the bilge, tripping the float over and over again. Try draining a bit water manually and check if the pump stops. Fair weather and safe travels wished from Norway ⚓🛥

[@SchoandJo]

Thanks so much for the comment Vidar! We appreciate the warm wishes 😁

[@TLee-kt5ff]

Don't put a check valve in that line if it fails closed you will have a problem.

[@Vegvisir_Oceanis]

@@TLee-kt5ff no checkvalves ment for marine use get stuck in closed position. If it fails it will be open

[@billjeffery2419]

hate boat work but you gotta do them, they don't stop .it's all part of the experience so they say.😁

[@SchoandJo]

hehe, yep - all part of the experience 😁

[@outofbounds218]

I have had success with citric acid, oxalic acid or magic eraser. All work depending on severity

[@SchoandJo]

Sweet - thanks for sharing!

[@johnsummers9434]

You'll probably find towing knocks your speed by up to 1 kt. Just hold the painter and feel the pressure.

[@SchoandJo]

I'm pretty sure it's increased our speed anywhere from 0-.5 kts. Huge savings in the long term!!

[@IamHenshaw]

I don’t know if you guy have a stuffing box for your shaft, but it may need repacking. I’d suspect the shaft is the cause of water in the bilge. Perhaps check that out. Can cause a rather rapid sink, especially since your bilge pump isn’t at 100%. I’d consider that an emergency to fix.

[@SchoandJo]

Thanks for the recommendation Gary, I'll take a look into it!

[@captainrosie6738]

And if in the slight chance it's not your shaft packing or dripless seal also check the rudder packing. I knew my rudder packing was leaking slightly most of the way from Connecticut to Florida but I didn't want to tighten it and maybe cause a bigger leak and a unscheduled haul out.

[@SchoandJo]

@@captainrosie6738 We will take a look! I think we have a slight leak back there, I'll investigate it soon. Love all the ideas Captain Rosie!

[@jrcrawford4]

Just curious -- what size dinghy is Fred and how much does he weigh (without the outboard)?

[@SchoandJo]

Fred was an 11 foot dinghy, IIRC, and probably 100 pounds? This is the latest version of the dinghy, if you're interested, it should be very comparable. go.schoandjo.com/s/west-dinghy Thanks!

[@johnmarschalk1977]

If You think Zincs are bad then yes but thought you’d replaced them recently. Comment was directed more about worrying about drag from Fred. And fresh water will help. No comment on Ollie sleeping on astroturf? Just thought it funny all we do for our dog(s) and then they show us they really don’t care as long as you give us mostly empty yogurt containers

[@SchoandJo]

Haha it is hilarious, they really are just happy. Zincs were replaced when we initially splashed about 16 months ago!

[@tledmondson1]

Use Lemon Juice. It will remove all the brown stain.

[@SchoandJo]

Thanks! I think we've heard lemon juice the most - will give a shot!

[@karencassel4122]

I left a comment and pictures in your Instagram messages. Starbrite Hull Cleaner works wonders with little effort.😊

[@SchoandJo]

Thanks so much Karen!!

[@Niki10-32]

+1 on the starbrite Hull Cleaner

[@cliffblakely4008]

It would be best to replace that bilge pump.

[@SchoandJo]

Absolutely! If you’ve seen the recent videos you’ll see why it was the correct decision. If only we did it now ☺️

[@cliffblakely4008]

@@SchoandJo In my 40 years of boating, I have realized that batteries ( for the operation of the engine) and bilge pumps only last 3 years.

[@kmflynn329]

You might be over doing it. We as viewers need to. 1) Buy a small electric cooler. 2) one of those rad electric moped bikes for you to ride around on. 3) a big screen tv to watch movies on. Kinda big. 4) some lemons to ward off scury.

[@SchoandJo]

Can't forget about warding off scurvy 😁😁😁

[@miked5563]

Do you check all your fluids everyday? Oil, coolant, etc including genset?

[@SchoandJo]

We don't check the genset often but also don't use it often, as for the engine we check oil, coolant, transmission-oil, v-belt, and overall fuel level before each cruise 🤙

[@gregsullivan8956]

When headed South on the loop will you take the Tenntom or the Mississippi?

[@SchoandJo]

Only Mississippi for a few miles then TennTomm!

[@randallrozier559]

Snow bowl toilet bowl cleaner will remove brown stains as good as hull cleaner and cheaper

[@brendasteen4016]

On off to remove the stain,

[@SchoandJo]

Thanks for the recommendation Brenda!

[@lukebyrne4405]

Just curious but how long does it take to edit one of your videos?

[@SchoandJo]

4-12 hours 😁

[@craigr2048]

What marina is this?

[@SchoandJo]

This is Osprey Marina in Myrtle Beach, SC! Great rates, a hurricane hole, and nice people!

[@cmichaelhaugh8517]

Ugh! Exhausting

[@trishalexander6093]

You do not put cucs in the frig. They go bad FAST!

[@buckpowers4837]

I am tired just watching you all work. That's just part of living on the water. Below waterline is a chore to clean and it will make a difference in speed. At least your hullis not wood. Enjoy

[@SchoandJo]

Haha - we are also very happy the bottom isn’t wood!

[@Artist_Kevin]

11:01 peroxide?

[@jakejaekels7991]

Scupper’s

[@SchoandJo]

Thanks!

[@silverfox199686]

Go to dollar general and find the works it cost 1.00

[@SchoandJo]

Right on! Thanks for the recommendation 🤙

[@C-Man_YOUTUBE]

FSR Fiberglass Stain Remover, works great in removing the brown stain. Available in all West Marine stores.

[@SchoandJo]

Thanks for the recommendation Jim!

[@frankrice5364]

Bad switch replace it

[@pap91rt50]

Bottom cleaner..it's an acid based product,but does a great job!!

[@SchoandJo]

Thanks Larry!

[@pap91rt50]

@@SchoandJo you're welcome!!

[@brianflanagan4889]

Only tow a dinghy you can afford to loss.

[@SchoandJo]

We keep two lines on it all times, primary and backup... I suppose anything can happen though!

[@jakejaekels7991]

Ha, why in the world would you nam your dink FRED?

[@SchoandJo]

haha it just seemed like the right thing to do 😁

[@travisbarkel3666]

Toilet bowl cleaner

[@SchoandJo]

Thanks for the recommendation Travis!

[@alanmarfin1007]

Captain Paul "No regrets" KZbin video talks about the yellow scum cleaning. He recommends MARYHATE Cleaner On&Off Gel MK35128. His video is "Frustrating Yellow boat stain gone in seconds after America's Great" from 8 months ago.

[@SchoandJo]

Thanks for the recommendation - will have to take a look!