Caving vs Climbing

[@HowNOT2]

Check out our new store! hownot2.store/

[@parptarf]

"Caves are three dimentional" - Ryan Jenks, 2021

[@youregonnaattackthem]

"he made caving look cooler than it actually is". Accurate comment is accurate

[@Alvinyokatori]

That’s caving for u lol

[@davids1716]

Cool, yes, but still cold as shit!

[@gorrister2977]

Ah, cavers. The nerds of alpinism. Just beware not to meet the Nebraska while you are down there.

[@FlatOutFE]

I never get sweaty hands when watching ballsy climbing vids. I did have some anxiety watching the tight spots in this video.

[@SlanderFails]

"Have you watched The Descent?" Worst sentence to ask folks while caving.... 😂 love your humor.

[@Mrich775]

Cave diver here when I'm not hauling up walls, underwater caves are the absolute most serene place I have ever been in, over absolutely any other place in earth they are my happy place.

[@HowNOT2]

isn't that the two most dangerous sports you can do? 😂

[@Mrich775]

@@HowNOT2 I'll keep my other hobbies to myself then haha.

[@matteobucalossi596]

same here. and confirming uw caves >> stupids walls lol way more effortless

[@Mrich775]

@@matteobucalossi596 Ginnie Springs ftw, total tourist cave but I try to spend every summer there 🤙

[@matteobucalossi596]

@@Mrich775 hey man there's a lot to see in ginnie, and it goes....

[@pauln1557]

Nice video. There's one fundamental difference between climbing in the open air and SRT in caves: My experience suggests that ropes work really well in tension, but not in compression. Caves usually go downwards, so your belays are at the top of each pitch. Thus the rope in always in tension and you feel nice and secure. Open air climbs go up, so you always have to climb above your belay/protection, so the rope is all floppy and loose. No nice secure feeling here! I get pretty bad vertigo, so I can handle vertical caving, but climbing scares the hell out of me! Trouble is that invariably there are always sections within caves where you have to climb up - so I always have to harden up and not look down!! The real attraction about caving is that you can get absolutely covered in mud, just like a wee kid out playing, but no one gives you a row about it when you get home. Plus you have to drink lots of beer after caving, or this just a British thing?

[@ujjc001]

So, so, so, claustrophobic just watching you... Nice video, thanks!!!

[@jhuntley575]

Man I don't have many phobias, but damn. Being in a small cave. Then having to fit through a super tiny hole that you can barely fit through. Yea that would bother me too.

[@heritagejonery3879]

I don't know much about underground rescue over there but here in the UK we say for every hour you have been underground its probably around 10 hours to get you out.

[@nohands3255]

Not a chance in hell I'd go caving

[@leegosling]

Caving used to be what climbers did in winter before climbing gyms... best physical training for mobility and strength there is... heavy gear on the walk in... jugging up bouncy ropes... headology... rigging... perfect.

[@ghaznavid]

I did Racer Cave in Borneo, with a local guide. Thats about as adventurous as I'd get in a cave. I suggested we all turn out lights off for a minute to see how dark it was - needless to say it was entirely dark.

[@courageandstupidity4279]

At least the rock is solid, that makes it much more safe than exploring abandoned mines as we do

[@JesseUnderscoreMartin]

Yes, yes, I am claustrophobic. My skin is crawling while watching the intro video.

[@cara.mellos]

almost made me puke

[@HowNOT2]

It is kinda cozy... like a warm blanket of limestone wrapped around you

[@gmancolo]

Get over it.

[@nhoj2849]

Okay, I've found what makes my palms sweat! I'll stick to climbing in the open air thank you!

[@waynegriswold8953]

you look soooo happy the whole time

[@1337-David]

What a timely video considering all the Rock and Ice drama lol

[@arnoldkotlyarevsky383]

....what rock and ice drama?

[@gmancolo]

Indeed. In caving DO NOT set up trad routes on formations!

[@caedencollins7618]

Yeah I wanna know the tea

[@jamcdonald120]

Climbing: There is a rock wall on 1 side Caving: There are rock walls on all sides

[@MrMohl1]

"im mostly naked, no shoes on, rocks are sharp, very cold... yeah, i'd recommend it"

[@thewanderingmango17800]

This is great. Loving the highline guy in a cave 😂 TAG!! You should test some caving gear used and unused: ropes and biners Thanks for the great content and showing people actual caving!

[@HowNOT2]

New PMI static rope vs 40 year old one coming soon. Spoiler alert.... 22kN new and 12kn on the old one

[@thewanderingmango17800]

@@HowNOT2 Ha, who would have known 🤷‍♂️😅

[@johnblack7322]

Love this. Come to Utah next, and do a canyoneering comparison video.

[@HowNOT2]

Canyoneering is on the list!

[@gmancolo]

Yes. Intro to the world of sketchy anchors, keeper potholes, silos, Mae West slots, floods, etc.!

[@AZDesertExplorer]

@@HowNOT2 yesss!

[@adamwilson8559]

Dude! I've done that squeeze at 0:45-1:33. I love that cave soooo much.

[@rachelhasbruises]

Hard to beat a classic, especially when you casually pop up the King's Shower and don't at all mention what's up there. 🤭

[@rachelhasbruises]

The fact that no one has commented about the ending makes me wonder if we lost y'all in the first 2 minutes. 😂

[@somecsguy9824]

You front loaded the panic-inducing footage lol. Takes a special kind of bamf to crawl through barely body sized crevices. Did you all end up checking out the water? Cheers

[@HowNOT2]

Wait, it's longer than 2 minutes? I stopped watching when I saw mud!

[@beginna]

thank god my attention span is longer than 2 min. 😉 cave-skinny-dipping. gotta admit, it's an interesting combination. 😂

[@newFaction64]

I like this channel but yeah, first two mins were kinda cringey and hokey.

[@rachelhasbruises]

@@newFaction64 consider where it is logistically feasible to film. 🙄 If you're unamused by this, I'd happily let you push my incredibly grim project caving leads!

[@davids1716]

Great ‘flash bulb’ photo!

[@ethanreuter2888]

Do you have that shirtless dudes phone number who did the swimming thing? Asking for a friend

[@rachelhasbruises]

Do you think he has an OnlyFans?

[@Rickshaw_Bohammer]

@@rachelhasbruises OnlyCams

[@FedoraSpunk]

Yeah I got you, 911

[@TheMotlias]

I love the idea of hanging 500m off the ground climbing, the idea of caving tho is just horrifying to me 😂

[@vitorviotti]

I did a entry level course on caving and it was all nice and cool and dandy than they asked who wanted to try a squeeze. I volunteer, as we say in Brazil what is a fart once you neck high in crap. I got stuck in the squeeze, got REALLY closes to panic and needed 4 people to help me get out; never went caving again especially after learning about John Jones in the Nutty Putty. I would go again, but need to collect my balls back from that squeeze but I'll stick with rock climbing for the time being.

[@ReedWolfewawrzynek]

The caves Ive been in in the north east of the US are much smaller, but no less fun. There is a sense of exploration that comes with caving.

[@rachelhasbruises]

The Northeast has some truly gnarly, grim, sloppy caving.

[@HowNOT2]

For not having much of a destination... it is pretty fun to just see what's around the corner

[@Macks_Mustermann]

more please!

[@HowNOT2]

next month we got some extra cool cave projects coming out

[@phkit420]

Explores unknown cave Finds a sleeping dragon

[@SeanHenrichs]

"I want this to look as hard as possible" 😂

[@ShurikB93]

Actually this is one of the only times, that I'm not on the toilet while watching this channel

[@HowNOT2]

I knew it!

[@blackravens5]

"Yeah that's a fear I have...." cuts out HAHAHA

[@matteobucalossi596]

"this is new pit because it was new" sounds about right.

[@HowNOT2]

Easy to remember! What happens when that pit gets old and there is a newer pit?

[@matteobucalossi596]

@@HowNOT2 Resurvey! 😫😫

[@Lau3464l]

Ask me how hard my heart was pounding while watching this... TIL I am terrified of caves

[@TerriYoung-m4c]

I want to watch this I'm going to watch it later. Interested

[@DingleFlop]

God... Just imagine right... You're a bajillion feet underground, nobody within helping distance... But there could be more cave over there- so you strip down and go for a dip to find the rest of the cave. That has got to be the weirdest feeling in the world. I cannot imagine anything that even comes close.

[@dirkparkins597]

I enjoy seeing you exploring new disciplines. I have been wondering about canyoning and would like watch you explore that sport. Know any canyoners?

[@CodeLeeCarter]

Lol, I only finished re-watching "The Descent" 1 n 2 the other night myself, love those movies. creepy!

[@Man_De]

2:40 laughing so hard I fell off my throne

[@tomedinburgh4490]

58 seconds in. Genuinely had to pause it from anxiety. Screw that...

[@HowNOT2]

But at 59 seconds it started getting really good ;)

[@joeybaldarelli6620]

Caving is year round... except for monsoon season.

[@tomtom4405]

If the water is very cold (wetsuits) people might encourage you to pee in your pants. Peeing in your pants isn't generally encouraged in climbing.

[@rachelhasbruises]

#trueClimbingFacts

[@HowNOT2]

That's a difference. Whether you pee in your pants on purpose or not.

[@steves1015]

My mate did that in one caving trip. He then forgot to wash out his wetsuit. The next time we went caving.... Well you can imagine the stentch!! Stale urine in enclosed spaces is definitely not something I would recommend!! It was almost as bad as the time I left squid in my bait box for 3 months..... 🤢

[@steverox13]

Is there any air monitoring that occurs to determine if a cave is safe to enter? OSHA and industry require that we perform air monitoring in any confined space

[@rachelhasbruises]

Great question! Nope, not normally because most circulate air-- like, Ryan didn't lose the "cave puffy jacket" until once we were well inside because the cave sucks in the cold air in winter (similarly, it blasts out air in summer) and we had to get beyond the thermocline before it was warm enough for a Californian. The only real issue are: * massive amounts of rotting organic debris (like wet caves that get huge amounts of flood debris washed in) causing methane build-up * Very small caves may not circulate air and CO2 might settle * If your caving friends ate Taco Bell the day before and you're doing tight crawls * Fumes or emissions from nearby industrial / manmade things'n'stuff (best example is a cave with a passage called "Gasoline Alley" ... the exhaust fumes from a nearby airport settle into it 🚫 In all those, you'll get a splitting headache long before you're in trouble. You just turn around and leave.

[@steverox13]

@@rachelhasbruises Thank you for the reply! I work in the environmental industry and my first thoughts are always safety. Thats all really neat info!

[@JButler89]

So odd to be watching these videos and see not one two people in shirts from my hometown....

[@yoxzvandelft9884]

European caver says great caving with short sleevs :-). Very good video, good info too.

[@50StichesSteel]

I'm afraid of heights, but I still climb and rappel...I'm a little bit claustrophobic, and you couldn't pay me enough to shimmey through a cave...I like nice BIG caves lol

[@muaddib6107]

He got me. Have a damn like

[@HowNOT2]

hahahahahaha

[@effyoo6081]

My hands sweat when I watch you climb or highline or swing. This gives me intense anxiety. I bought rope and climbing gear and climb trees in Florida to overcome my fear. I'll never do this

[@user-ed7gm7ol8k]

10:52 this is what national geographic shows you as "cool caving" 15:38 this is what crappy real caving

[@dukescolej]

Did you use a CO2 meter or another form of CO2 monitoring? Or take something? Is the gas profile of the cave well understood? You guys all sound absolutely narced off CO2 or some other gas from 1:35 and onward. I'm a little elevated myself here and listening to you guys sobered me right up. Just compare speech in the first 1:35 to speech after 1:35 and throughout the video, or compare speech in the cave to speech outside in Moab. Maybe I'm just being a jerk, idk, but I think it's best to mention it. I've seen videos of cavers high off cave fumes and this reminded me a lot of it. Caves are scary. Funny video though, I did enjoy.

[@rachelhasbruises]

Hey-hey. I'd just typed out a response to someone else so I'll copy it here (with some add on): Caves circulate air very well in most cases. Like, it often feels like you're standing in front of a box fan when you're at the entrance. (I think it's in this video) Ryan doesn't lose the "cave puffy jacket" until once we were well inside because the cave was sucking so much cold winter air into it from outside that we had to get beyond the thermocline before it was warm enough for a Californian. ((Similarly, the entrances will blast out cool cave air in summer so it'll feel like you're standing in front of an AC when you're at the surface.)) The only real issue are: * massive amounts of rotting organic debris (like wet caves that get huge amounts of flood debris washed in) causing methane build-up * Very small caves may not circulate air and CO2 might settle * If your caving friends ate Taco Bell the day before and you're doing tight crawls * Fumes or emissions from nearby industrial / manmade things'n'stuff (best example is a cave with a passage called "Gasoline Alley" ... the exhaust fumes from a nearby airport settle into it 🚫 In all those, you'll get a splitting headache long before you're in trouble. You just turn around and leave. . . . . The only CO2 monitoring needed is your brain (...at least mine gets BAD headaches) and a lighter. The lighter will still light, but you can see a noticable gap between the bottom of the flame and the top of the lighter. As for how we sound: No my voice just sucks most of the time and Ryan's humor is directly dependent on how recently he has had snacks. This footage is from three different caves, over a two week visit. Yes, that does imply that there are more videos to come... ;)

[@theSquashSH]

Can you break/slip-test knots in muddy rope, muddy ATCs, and/or a muddy grigri? Would be very interested to see how it affects results if at all.

[@rachelhasbruises]

ACT aren't used caving except for very very niche situations (belayed climbs). Mud kills grigris because they are aboveground devices. 😂

[@theSquashSH]

@@rachelhasbruises ah good to know, is it all figure 8s instead? what do you use to belay people?

[@rachelhasbruises]

@@theSquashSH All normal ropework for caving is SRT with fixed static ropes. Caving descenders are used for rappelling-- either a bobbin or a rack. Ascending systems vary but the most common is a frog system (croll + upper ascender w/ footloop). We don't belay at all (or use dynamic ropes) unless it's super niche exploratory climbing, in which case yes we use an ATC. But that's a totally separate animal from the normal SRT stuff.

[@jarodlojeck5150]

It's so weird to hear Ryan speak quietly.

[@mlake07]

I get near panic claustrophobia just watching the vids ..

[@mihaidarius1693]

Very awesome I really love both

[@richardsmith9918]

Don't want get stuck but that is pretty cool I like 11mm rope. I do see why the equipment is different

[@NeuroDee]

This video gives me anxiety lol. I could never do this, but I enjoy watching yall suffer 🤣

[@NoName-OG1]

30 years ago - in my stupid 20s did some dumb caving in Okinawa. With none us ever having done it before, no one knew we went or where, totally unprepared and only by chance of luck made it back out. Fun adventure I’ll always remember, but not recommend.

[@mitchellbarnow1709]

Will howNOTtoCAVE be launching soon? Thank you 😊

[@schneblymagee400]

Im still trying to process doin that without shoes...

[@BushCampingTools]

Go Petzl Ecrin!!!!

[@sirpuddings8019]

As a V14 Boulderer, I avoid caves at all costs..

[@ericlakota6512]

Yea i would like climbing and highlining but caving is nuts

[@Alvinyokatori]

How to ascending a steel cable?? We need this technology. Fr I climb out in the wastelands and a nice permanent steel ascension line is the most elegant solution

[@HowNOT2]

Have you tried friction hitches? The make cable grabber as well.

[@guardffire]

Smashed the like button because i was pooping whilst watching this

[@sendit2873]

is that titan hole cave does anyone know?

[@macman231]

Caving is a full body workout :-)

[@benjaminmcsorley554]

Would you test sterling power cord

[@benwolpert]

Can you explain the gate closed, practice outside, climbing, practice inside? Thats just not making any sense to me.

[@HowNOT2]

Many caves have gates to limit access. Climbing you practice in Gyms, caving you pracice above ground. hit a new low when I am explaining Ryan's dumb jokes. -Bobby

[@rachelhasbruises]

If a cave has a gate on it, are we indoors or outdoors? 🤔🤔🤔

[@DeFausti]

Getting so much anxiety from this x) I prefer heights

[@redbrandonk]

man that's scary stuff

[@camiloho5676]

Why yes, I am in fact pooping. Love this video!

[@HowNOT2]

I knew it!

[@east_coastt]

What if you get stuck 😫😫

[@adrianmilitaru4967]

Great video and I would like to see more but that's gonna be a nope from me

[@pavlodeshko]

caves are scary as shit. Been once in a huge gypsum cave (Optymistychna) - its really one level so there's almost no climbing - just walking through a maze of narrow passages, and I mean f@cken HOURS of average pace walking, deeper and deeper undeground. And that was just up to "first camps", known edges of the cave are days away! All sort of surviving dramas dont seem that serious any more if they take place outside, there're so many options 😂

[@HowNOT2]

the back door option in case sh*t goes wrong is a long ways away

[@FinArborist]

3:43 Except tree climbing.. thats nice and 3d..

[@BenKickert]

FNA. I can't. Just watching you makes me anxious. Claustrophobia is real.

[@disgruntledwookie369]

You always say go with someone who knows what they're doing but like how? I don't know any such people. I grew up in dull flat southern England, the nearest exposed rock to my house is 50 miles away and it's just a tiny sandstone crag :( Yet I've always loved these kinds of sports, climbing, caving, highlining, whatever it is. Seems like most people are terrified but to me I'm always like "fuck where's my invite!" :'D I love being in places I have no business being in haha. Would love to go climbing or caving with you guys even just for a day. There's guided tours and all that but it's shitty, everything is too bubble wrapped, health and safety, no trust for the people on the tour, they treat you like a walking accident waiting to happen and it's just not the experience. You should open a company that does introductory climbing, caving, highlining trips, I'd pay good money to do this stuff with someone like yourself, someone who takes safety very seriously but also knows how to chill out and have a laugh. Anyway great vid man, love it.

[@rachelhasbruises]

If you're in the UK, access is much easier. Just look up Speleological Societies. If you're in the US, access is going to differ dramaaaatically by region. Although the system isn't great, the "usual" route people take to become cavers is to join a local caving club (called Grottos). These can be found at Caves.org @Derek Bristol has a very good KZbin page of more in-depth caving information with resources about getting started.

[@disgruntledwookie369]

@@rachelhasbruises Oh wow, thanks Rachel! :D Speleological... there's a word I would never have come up with on my own haha. I'll have a look into that, thanks so much

[@professorsogol5824]

Have a look at the KZbin at the link. The second part is in Blackpool -- it's not southern England but it looks pretty flat. It'll give you some ideas of stuff you can do on flat ground too. kzbin.info/www/bejne/nWGcfoWtm6Z3iKs

[@disgruntledwookie369]

@@professorsogol5824 Pretty sick. I used to ride BMX a few years back and eventually ended up skating instead, either way defo a good time without needing much in the way of terrain. Still though, it's not really my calling. My passion is for climbing, not sure how this happened since I never lived near rocks... some day I will relocate to the mountains!

[@rachelhasbruises]

@@disgruntledwookie369 cheers! Hope you find a group and have a blast underground. (:

[@Suhgurim]

2 minutes and 1 drink in... and i'm out sorry

[@carstenpetersen7832]

Got me, on the toilet right now……

[@A-A-RonWay]

Definitely watching while pooping.. had to like it 🤷

[@Dokumentarfilme]

15:38 fuking devil is in the waters.. Jesus christ man

[@konkelkent]

God, i have absolutely zero interest in trying Caving, It makes no sense to me, squeezing in to those tight spaces, zero adrenaline rush. just pure fkn fear of getting stuck and dying the worst way imaginable.

[@andersbodin1551]

climbers can learn how to never fall

[@Ammobucket]

Nope. Nope. Nope. ......that was an echo.

[@danielt1g3r75]

I love caving, but somehow it's true ... We cavers don't really climb that much and train in the outside 😂

[@goaliedude32]

Why would you ever crawl into that.

[@JeffWurst]

➜Names of cave areas are not that creative Hey! In my project cave all the names are really awesome and creative. Lets see, we have "Stream 1", "Stream 2", "Stream 3"...Okay, maybe you're on to something. Some of the names are good anyway--all the ones I'm responsible for :-) It's nice to see you went with real cavers. So many caving videos out on KZbin are amateurish and don't provide good (safe and non-destructive) information about our sport.

[@daviddenison4168]

No Way!!!............Not Me!!!...........

[@johnparla6252]

I was in a tirer chimney 🤣🤣

[@johnparla6252]

Titer

[@thatbobguy898]

Who is that guy in the black ?

[@rachelhasbruises]

Oh Bob Biddix, you're so funny! I guess I should have worn all pink (and cleaned all my gear). PS: your photos are *still* boring and unoriginal.

[@PlantsAndBlink]

Imagine going caving in such a narrow cave with someone, who, 30 mins in, tells you: "oh sorry, forget to tell you, I have Covid right now"

[@RonMarish]

Yes. Had to turn off because of Yes

[@ExploreUnderground]

I'm curious.. do you take air monitors with you? Like a 4 gas meter or even just an oxygen meter?

[@rachelhasbruises]

Late reply: but no, those are completely unnecessary in the vast majority of caves.

[@ExploreUnderground]

@rachelhasbruises late replies are still replies lol It's the same in the mines around here I explore, but there is a possibility of low oxygen or H2S, so we use em. I was just curious if it's a thing in the caving world. Thanks for the reply, Rachel!

[@akinnon2000]

0:52 isnt this what all woman wants to hear ?

[@Gadgetmawombo]

Yeaaaaahhh no. Yeah no. I dunno about doing this. At least with climbing you aren't in a gross, muddy, spooky hole.

[@nettewilson853]

I cant finish this too clastraphobic.

[@averylrude9899]

Where is this cave? State, town?

[@hoystyler]

Owen Benjamin + Mark Hamill = Ryan Jenks

[@dcelectric6689]

Ryan’s in a tight spot. Inside the 🦇 cave