cbf is cheating, but thats NOT the problem

[@Shween]

I cheat Wife unhap

[@niftycatlololol]

stop making me laugh i’m in public

[@aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa74]

fair enough

[@DavidIsFrenchTemp]

​@@niftycatlolololbruh just laugh no one's gonna kill you

[@niftycatlololol]

@@DavidIsFrenchTemp well its too late now i have waited in line and eaten my sandwhich and now i am back at my place of residence

[@someguyontheinternet5243]

@@niftycatlololol Was the sandwich good?

[@VoxelMusic]

Players finally getting a tool that completely removes the hardware limitations that have existed since the games inception and they suddenly don't want it is the most ironic thing ever, high end GD players cant be happy with anything.

[@txtronixgd7373]

I’m fairly sure the vast majority people want it, but just differ on whether they think it is cheating or not. Wanting it and thinking it is cheating are not mutually exclusive

[@m1nerb0ss]

Based And it's more like noobs aren't happy about cbf Most of the pro players use cbf just for the sake of poor players that can't play modern levels with 120 fps, cbf doesn't actually benefits on 240fps and higher Imagine how many people started to beat their favorite levels just because cbf exists and they can play on 60 fps with lowered input lag

[@Yannickyboiii]

I have 240 hz monitor but the limitations for my 60hz friends is just unfair i dont get why cbf is not legitimate (i dont use it myself tho)

[@DJOverturned]

it's literally a mod that makes the game easier people pushed limits and made new top ones with that hardware limitation, they're ok without it. I personally think players with 60hz or phone should use it to level the playing field, not people with 360hz and default low input delay like Trick and Popoff (they're getting dunked on by Zoink who is cbf-less but they still manage to beat list demons in outrageously low attempts) Also pretty sure Zoink or ItzKiba said Nullscapes is free with CBF so it's unfair to use it when the verifier went through pain

[@DJOverturned]

@@thatoneactualdude so the solution for cbf players is to make creators work even harder for a problem that isn't theirs 🤣 sounds like a win-win-lose for me imagine restructuring all 3 mins of spectre accounting for every move trigger and misaligned deco a block might have have just cuz a few chaps wanted an advantage

[@BlissBee]

If cbf shouldn't be allowed because it changed the games physics than we shouldn't have allowed high refresh monitors because those also change the games physics.

[@lessgenericname]

you're almost a year late with that argument, physics are always the same no matter your refresh rate in 2.2 the only thing dependent on fps is input registration, and if you're on windows fps isn't even tied to refresh rate

[@rose_speedrunner]

​@@lessgenericnameOk but back in 2.1 different refresh monitors were allowed and fps bypass up to 240 (might have been 360 I forgot) why is cbf any different then fps bypass back in 2.1

[@Ketrab-]

​@@rose_speedrunner Because you could still have the same physics with fps bypass and without it. While people that use cbf have something that people that dont use it cant have.

[@astericksgd6707]

@@Ketrab-people who don’t use cbf can just start using it

[@Ketrab-]

@@astericksgd6707 Not everyone wants to use a mod that makes them better. I want to actually be better at the game rather than rely on a mod.

[@zFunnyBoy_]

wait there's cats between frames? why would they put them there?

[@niftycatlololol]

dog between frames users DNI

[@YoYoMedH14S]

Click before frames

[@leekaliciousss]

@@YoYoMedH14S Click After Frames

[@Ma7dof]

​@@leekaliciousssevery click takes 20 frames to happen

[@leekaliciousss]

@@Ma7dof No its a geode mod for mobile idk why

[@Shalomium21]

Personally i use cbf and understand why people think its cheating, what i dont understand is why people think because they disagree with cbf EVERYONE ON THE PLANET HAS TO THINK ITS BAD everyone has opinions but just dont make a big arguement about it geez.

[@magystraal]

I believe one reason CBF is seen as bad is because of robtop decision to not rate levels verified with the use of it. It's certainly unfair that zoink had to verify nullscapes without CBF so rob may rate it and then people can just use it because the demonlist allows it. The only reason it is cheating or seen as it is because rob doesn't hire anyone to help him and wants to do everything by himself. Globed has brought more to the game in less than a year than robtop himself and that's why most of the drama are occuring today. If rob allowed CBF for verification it would just be considered as a mod making the game fair/easier or if the demonlist followed robtop's decision that CBF won't be allowed then there would be no point of using it except to convince them to change their opinions. Overall I think it's cheating right now because of those rules and not because of what it does.

[@monote43]

​@@magystraalwell said, thats all there is for CBF, however i dont understand why FPS bypass was allowef but this isnt its absurd

[@zStormy389]

@@monote43fps bypass is entirely different and did not modify the physics of the game in an "unfair" way, anyone can get a monitor at a higher/lower rate with their own money and easily have these physics too. cbf is is just blatant unfair advantage that not everyone has access to. and yes I am aware geode is free, and cbf has nearly 200k downloads. it's still not accessible to "everyone" , nor accepted/objectively allowed

[@monote43]

​@@zStormy389do you realize FPS bypass wasnt accesible for everyone back in the day right?, even on mobile due to lag generated by it essentially made it pc only iphone doesnt even have the 240 tps every other platform has FPS bypass was cheating, CBF will not be anymore when rob adds it as well as how ANYONE can get a high precise input device with their money to benefit from CBF, in which there is not much difference if you use a crappy input device for CBF at all CBF is the right aproach to the physics in the game, its just a matter of time.

[@magystraal]

@@monote43 I wasn't that much into gd when fps bypass was new so I don't know much about this one, all I can say is that if rob allowed it then there would be no reason to consider it cheating and people saying that not everyone could use it so it was unfair are not fully right because before bypass you had to get a better monitor to play at higher refresh rates so even if bypass wasn't accessible for everyone it kind of expands the number of player who could compete at high level and maybe we're over looking things there might not even be a proper reason why fps was allowed and not cbf maybe people are just like that

[@snomayne]

i wish cbf was just implemented with an actual unified physics engine, it would solve so many problems and these kind of debates wouldnt even exist. its not even adding content that has a chance to ruin the game either, inputs should be dictated by when you click, not by the next time your monitor updates (enjoyed the video and the take btw) 👍

[@sidxhuuinaw]

robtop has actually said that he plans on making his own version of cbf to add to the game

[@jhenzo]

You.

[@snomayne]

@ 🙋‍♂️

[@gouuu6046]

144fps makes clicks more accurate compared to 60fps, no cheating. 360fps makes clicks more accurate compared to 144fps AND need an external tool to be used in game, no cheating. cbf makes clicks more accurate compared to 360fps, need an external tool to be used in game, but this time is cheating ? I don't get the logic

[@niftycatlololol]

any use of an external tool is cheating it doesn’t matter what it does

[@BallisticWistfully]

@@niftycatlololol guess we all cheating

[@thatoneguy9582]

@@BallisticWistfully maybe it is but who gives a shit lmao ur still playing the level

[@usinexiguess]

2.1, fps bypass: High refresh rate monitors that cost hundreds of dollars are 100% allowed for gameplay both by the dev and the community despite breaking the game's physics; and fps bypass, while by definition being an exploit achieves the same results that are already allowed in the form of high refresh rate monitors, since it exploits a bug present in the vanilla game. 2.2, cbf: There is no other way to achieve CBF's results without installing the external program named after it, and apart from being defined as an exploit; modifies the game in a way that achieves results that cannot be achieved within vanilla GD, unlike FPS bypass. sorry for the wall of text, just felt like spreadin it around

[@gouuu6046]

@@niftycatlololol i uunderstand the argument, but then playing on more than 60fps is cheating, and since everyone does it i don't get why cbf get a different treatment

[@fearthedark12]

The reason most of us use CBF is because we have a 60 hz monitor, meaning we don't have as much precision. Unlock FPS can cause huge screen tearing issues making it sometimes harder to play the game with higher FPS. CBF simply allows people who can't get a better computer to play at around the same precision level as those who can get monitors with higher refresh rates. You shouldn't have to pay upwards of 300$ to beat extreme demons.

[@ekisacik]

click on steps is cbf without a physics bypass. in my opinion it isn't cheating because it causes the game to function as it would for someone with a more expensive setup, so...

[@Naksug_1]

People never understand that the demon list is not a part of the game

[@pigchefer]

congratulations niftycat for a 50k view video

[@niftycatlololol]

😸😸😸😸

[@betnick1454]

50k!!?? Verbalase!!!??? Hazbin Hotel!!!???

[@P0LY4YT]

@@betnick1454 creep

[@betnick1454]

@@P0LY4YT simp, actually

[@3ripleD]

​@@betnick1454 this joke is so old its not even funny anymore

[@LunarBong]

I just dont like it when people demonize me for using cbf when Im open about it and do say its cheating, I just find it way more enjoyable and fun and Id rather have fun than not yknow

[@niftycatlololol]

👍

[@BtGram]

Getting demonize over a simple mod is so fucking disrespectful

[@LunarBong]

@@BtGram its crazy work

[@AspireGMD]

Yeah have fun as long as you're not one of the morons who says they're "100%" legit. A lot of the people in the comments can't accept that they're a cheater. It's not the end of the world as long as you're honest and open.

[@stratsboneless6270]

same people who demonize it use megahack and fps bypass LOL!

[@Jetaru]

The whole problem with this debate is that neither side will ever agree. I think the most we can do is keep encouraging Rob to add it officially so that we can get over this huge stupid ass debate.

[@Jetaru]

Also, I don't really care what side you're on, just stop comparing it to 2.1 bypass please you lose you're whole argument if you do that 😭

[@Sepi-chu_loves_moths]

Robtop cbf will cause even more drama because its not gonna be as good

[@Sakup3nMarkus]

we're gonna start harassing robtop to add it just like when we begged him to rate tidal wave😈(jk)

[@Sepi-chu_loves_moths]

@@Sakup3nMarkus thats kinda the problem, thats 100% gonna happen given that hes shown that the harrassment works with the tidal wave situation

[@mrfleo5817]

Cbf allows me not to have to buy a better laptop, 10/10 mod no debate

[@Mister_mic_microwave]

As an iOS mobile player. Hoping this is the last one of these fucking cbf video’s I get recommended

[@WhyLonk]

that sucks man im sorry, at least you dont have to play on android tho

[@Mister_mic_microwave]

@@WhyLonk Android is better than iOS tho?

[@WhyLonk]

@@Mister_mic_microwave android with cbf is more delay than ios with no cbf because of the way the operating system handles inputs

[@liminall]

When pro cbf people hear cheating, they think of stuff like noclip and what spaceuk did not a mod that is allowed in top level play.

[@dartlolz528]

imo cbf has made people who defend and that are against it the most annoying people I've ever seen. I have no opinions on people using cbf but its been so annoying that people are still aruging over this and its pointless. I don't care about the cbf drama at all I just want to enjoy levels even if they have a cbf blocker.

[@HyperSoop]

imo cbf is not an unfair advantage at all, it makes the game work more correctly is all. if anything, the lack of it is an unfair disadvantage.

[@BIGGD214]

cbf is literally changing the vanilla of the game. It is an unfair advantage because that's not how robtop intended for the game to work. You can't just say a mod that changes the vanilla of a game and makes it easier isn't an unfair advantage/cheating. Robtop already sees the use of the mod as cheating, and you know he could've added cbf in the game years ago but he kept it the way it is

[@DimensionaIGd]

Whats next playing people are gonna start playing levels on layout mode to “reduce lag”

[@niftycatlololol]

@@BIGGD214 who gaf what robtop thinks

[@klopsmmm]

​@@BIGGD214 so if there's a really buggy game, with bugs that give disadvantage, it's cheating to use mods that fix them? wow.

[@niftycatlololol]

yes but again cheating isn’t a bad thing

[@RealRoid]

If 2017 fps bypass drama was so cool, so why isn't there a 2017 fps bypass drama 2? 2017 fps bypass drama 2:

[@pablitoburrito4342]

ik this isn’t about the nullscapes, but that drama is so funny to me bc kiba clearly added it to make twitter mad (like they did with the hitboxes) and they succeeded really well

[@niftycatlololol]

yea i get the feeling it has nothing to do with cbf specifically and i am ALL for it with that in mind

[@rodmentor9601]

I've been playing this game for nearly 10 years and I currently have 55% and 28% - 90% on Acheron, I personally think that the difference between 360fps 2.1 GD and 240fps CBF 2.2 is almost completely negligable, it is a very small difference, and unnoticeable, it's like changing your polling rate from 1kHz to 8kHz, yes, there's maybe a slight difference, but several 2.1 demons have become harder on 2.2 due to physics difference, for example, the first jump in Acheron on 2.1 on 360fps is a 180fps frame perfect (2 frames), however, on 2.2 it becomes a 1 frame jump on 240fps, several of these physics differences would make a level harder than it should, and even sometimes with CBF a level could be harder than that of 2.1. For example, in 2.1 you could jump a few pixels higher the more FPS you had, on 2.2, this no longer is the case and you'll always jump the same height regardless of TPS/FPS, and the jump height on 2.2 is the same as the jump height in 2.1 on 60fps. Is CBF technically cheating because it is not a part of the vanilla game? Technically, yes, if you see it that way, however it's very dumb that both noclip and CBF fall under the category of "cheating". Especially considering that in the past, the Demonlist and even RobTop has changed opinions and rules of how levels can be rated and/or accepted on a list record, for example, when they allowed the use of FPS Bypass. Using V-Sync causes a very small delay in games, similar to that of the difference between 1kHz and 8kHz polling rate or 240fps no CBF and 240fps with CBF. Oh, and not only that, in Megahack v7 there was a hack called "No Delay", it was accepted for list records and also for rating a level, so I think this CBF drama is unnecessary if I'm being honest. However, I do understand that verifiers cannot use CBF yet future victors can, it is a bit unfair, but we gotta wait till RobTop does a final decision regarding the use of CBF.

[@rodmentor9601]

Also, CBF is more for people that can't run the game at higher fps rather than something for top players with high fps to use.

[@tempered-geography]

This is exactly what I'm saying, it doesn't make any difference for those who already have good equipment and for those who don't it makes top play more accessible.

[@Sepi-chu_loves_moths]

Hot take: I don't think we should care about robtops opinion any more than anyone else's. Basically everything in the game is out of his hands now with mods and out of game resources being independent. The only connections left are the rate system, which at this point only matters to get on the demon list (which the demon list mods are planning to change at some point btw) and updates, but even then we just have mods to change those updates if we don't like them.

[@necrolord5799]

@@Sepi-chu_loves_mothsthat could not be more true, robtop basically abandoned this game and gave us almost no communication for so long, the community has basically taken over the game in terms of rules and mods, so i dont get why people are all of a sudden giving robtop the ultimate decision when since forever the entirety of the game was upheld by the community

[@Sepi-chu_loves_moths]

@necrolord5799 I mean I definitely wouldn't go that far he did release 2.2 lol

[@Poqqers]

2:38 something to note, 2.2 physics being "broken" could be referring to how many 2.1 levels are harder than originally designed due to physics changes (ie: slaughterhouse)

[@VVater5]

we wouldn’t need cbf if everyone used a ps2 mouse

[@dino_lol]

interesting... ps2 mouse? 🧐

[@VVater5]

@@dino_lol it polls when you click

[@Wildxgiyu]

People are just Jealous of other players improving fast because of cbf, thats why some people hate cbf *IMO*

[@niftycatlololol]

cbf doesn’t make you improve it makes the game easier

[@Wildxgiyu]

@@niftycatlololol ik but what I'm trying to say is that players get a massive skill boost using it, and other players who have a massive skill issue are jealous of em.

[@niftycatlololol]

@@Wildxgiyu they don’t get a skill boost it doesn’t affect how good you are at the game

[@Wildxgiyu]

@@niftycatlololol it doesn't? What? Then why do people say "I beat nine circles in 2 att jaja using cbf"? Also isn't Doggie using cbf to verify grief? I mean he's playing better with cbf.

[@vanyam1]

​@@niftycatlolololit makes you improv faster here's why: Imagine that you are playing with click delay 1 second. It's so hard to do anything there, i don't think i even able to beat stereo madness like that. And with playing this huge delay we are improving so low. But when we change that delay to 0.1 seconds (these are all just example numbers) ye the game will become easier for us. But also, less delay will make us improve faster.

[@LSabreZ]

I'm certain that the people who are against CBF now would be against fps bypass, if to be taken back in time when the same exact discussion about it was happening

[@Theory22]

i completely agree with this video, cbf does make the game easier but that doesn't mean people's achievements should be overlooked or downplayed because they use it, i do also understand why robtop doesn't want to rate levels with the mod because it is possible to make levels that are only possible with the mod (for example a quad spike jump is possible with cbf) so i think rob is just trying to avoid accidentally rating a level that's impossible without cbf

[@teqnify63]

I don’t use cbf because i don’t want to

[@zzderp]

yeah it also ruin spam challenges too

[@EZ-DCO]

tbh cbf is more like pure skill than cheating

[@niftycatlololol]

it is a more accurate reflection of your skill but it’s still cheating

[@Sepi-chu_loves_moths]

I mean many definitions of cheating include being dishonest but also many don't, but like.... who cares? It's just needless semantics

[@zzderp]

it literally sets your fps to 8k but it is capped on your screen can you pls explain im not getting it

[@necrolord5799]

@@zzderpthats pretty much what it does

[@niftycatlololol]

that clearly isnt the definition im using

[@superturtle6458]

smart cat personally i dont think at all so i dont know

[@niftycatlololol]

i don’t think either i stole this idea from nifty elephant

[@GPR_GD]

@@niftycatlolololis there a nifty zoo I could go to

[@robloxgamer5656]

As a mobile iOS user who doesn’t even have the skill for chef to be useful, I honestly just don’t want the barrier between mobile and pc to get even larger

[@AbandonmentFarmer]

At this point mobile and pc top play are completely different, though cbf could widen the perceived difficulty between the two

[@Sepi-chu_loves_moths]

There's cbf for ios and android! Android has geode and ios has icreate

[@marioarnautjr]

​@@Sepi-chu_loves_mothsthere's no cbf for mobile phones... for (I think) the same reason there isn't fps bypass.

[@Sepi-chu_loves_moths]

@mariozin1_ I remember very clearly one doggie stream of grief where everyone was saying cbf was available on ios now through icreate, and so it was on both android and ios now. I might find the stream and tell you the number

[@nicathenoob19]

@@Sepi-chu_loves_moths Icreate is paid.

[@OSHEEVitaminWater]

1:38 it makes the game that didn't even need any kind of difficulty buff (that is fps cap and the new physics) "easier", or, as I'd say it "like in 2.1"

[@niftycatlololol]

it doesn’t matter though it makes the vanilla game easier

[@OSHEEVitaminWater]

@@niftycatlololol well yeah, it's still kind of annoying though, because some levels are either borderline impossible or just impossible without it

[@niftycatlololol]

yes there are hard levels in the game geometry dash

[@the_worst_rhythm_gamer]

i dont see cbf as cheating because its kind of like fps bypass, all it does is make your inputs more accurate i would rather download something that allows me to have very responsive play rather than spend a fortune on a monitor. for a single game.

[@tessal6555]

Spending a fortune on a moniter isn't necessary anymore, remember update 2.2?

[@BtGram]

People who have issues with screen tearing should use this mod

[@zzderp]

@@BtGram or you can use borderless non fullscreen and then set resolution to 640 x 480 :) 360 fps will be capped

[@BtGram]

@@zzderp i did that but gd lags when using bordless classic on mhv8

[@BuffNoobGD]

The solution to all CBF controversy is to just let the creator set if you can you CBF or not

[@SkyeTheFennec]

i dont exactly think someone is a cheater for using it, but at base definition, it is cheating. its the same situation with FPS bypass back in 2018, was it considered cheating? Yes absolutely. but as long as you were honest about using it, it doesnt imo make you a cheater. its the same mindset i have with speedhack. imagine if someone is honest about beating something like tidal wave at .5 speed. id still congratulate them on the achievement cause it still takes ALOT of skill to still be able to pull something like that off imo. Yeah, its easier, but i dont consider it cheating if your honest about it.

[@niftycatlololol]

i think that’s fair. i think it’s more of like a politeness thing at that point. i still consider said person a cheater but im not going to point it out every chance i get just because it’s rude

[@diamondking169]

If i understood this correctly you just said that using speedhack should not be considered cheating if the player is honest about it

[@diamondking169]

@@niftycatlololol i was responding to the original comment

[@firestormjupiter]

@@diamondking169 the difference lies in whether the player tells people that they beat tidal wave at 0.5x speed, or the player beats it at 0.5x speed and 1. gets 100% and is rewarded stars on the actual level and/or 2. speeds up the completion footage and submits it to a list as a legitimate completion

[@SkyeTheFennec]

@@diamondking169 not what i said at all. im saying that instead of dismissing the person as a full-blown cheater that cant play the game and have fun anymore, we really should encourage them to keep pushing to either do the level at faster speeds or go for harder at the same speed, it still takes skill to beat stuff at half speed weather you like it or not. i bet you 10000 bucks that you couldnt sit here, open tidal wave, and beat it first attempt at .5.

[@small.clover]

I think the definition of cheating that you have in your head is very different from the one in the dictionary

[@niftycatlololol]

i think “violating accepted standards or rules” fits pretty well

[@AbandonmentFarmer]

@@niftycatlolololThe accepted standards for showcasing is for only legit, no speedhack completions then?

[@inseminggd]

I also think people give too much weight to the demonlist, like "oh its an external tool thats not allowed so youre cheating" or "oh its accepted now so its not cheating and i dont wanna hear anything else" The demonlist is just a ranking system like many others, and it should be treated like one, not like this big authority that decides whats cheating and whats not, and that people who disagree with are wrong Like thats not true, i personally dont think its cheating, but that doesnt mean someone else cant think differently, nor does it work the other way around

[@niftycatlololol]

i think this applies to robtop as well

[@inseminggd]

@@niftycatlololol true

[@tridrax]

i think anything that makes inputs more accurate/less input lag should be encouraged. ultimately the physics shouldnt depend on frames and you should be able to get full benefits of 8khz (which you can get fairly inexpensively with a sayodevice)

[@nyir.]

I like the bit where she shared her opinions on cbf

[@zSpacetundra]

she?

[@Frogger1400]

Nifty’s trans?

[@therealfrank6393]

she?

[@Wildxgiyu]

She?

[@Muichiroxwild]

She?

[@ruthkatz1998]

Yeah I think one of the main problems is what people think of when they hear the word "cheating"

[@jocloo7013]

great vid nifty, its also funny how you kept cutting your breaths off lol

[@zestos6018]

Comparing spaceUK to fnm04 is not a good comparison, the difference between them is not just space lied and fnm didn't thats why spaceuk got hate, no. Space used cheats to climb up his way on the demon list and be literally the best competitive player in the game, and got ahead of legitimate players that strive to be top players. whereas fnm04 simply uses it to showcase levels. And these are two entirely different occasions to use cheats on. And i think that is a much more important point than "this guy lied the other didn't." ---- Personally i'm one of those people that don't think CBF is cheating, and that's simply because i believe there needs to be drawn a line between cheating and "cheating." For example, using FPS bypass is not the same as using noclip on a level. Are both of them labeled as "hacks" or "cheats?" yes. But they are two entirely different hacks with entirely different uses. FPS bypass makes your inputs more precise, therefore making your game more fun to play, since you are more in control of your clicks. You still require tremendous amount of skill to beat hard levels. Whereas noclipping a level turns any level into an auto. The reason why im telling these is to shine light to the fact that not all cheats/hacks are the same, and there is a reason why the demon list allows cheating to a certain degree, it's because they're not really cheats, they're just there to make your life easier (and no, easier gameplay does not equals cheating, if you think that then buying a higher refresh rate monitor can also be considered cheating.) and this is what i mean by some "cheats" are not really cheats. They only really make your life easier. ---- And i don't agree with the "GD is not that competitive, who cares" mindset. This game is incredibly competitive, and the demon list is a proof of that. Some people spend years on beating one level. (i think you can relate) And for some people, it's not about having fun anymore. it's about beating the level and being done with it. And to me, after seeing the tremendous amount of dedication, skill, time and commitment needed to beat these levels is proof that GD is a competitive game. And in a competitive environment, it's important to know and talk about what should be considered legitimate and what should not. ---- I think the CBF controversy is good for the community. People talking about it, voicing their opinions on it is a sign that there are lots of people who value what's legitimate and what's not and eventually a majority of the community coming up with a conclusion. It's completely okay to give your opinion on CBF, as long as you're respectful while you're doing so.

[@niftycatlololol]

i very clearly layed out the difference between fnm and space which was exactly what you said. the reason i compared them was to show the contrast between what is acceptable with regards to cheating, not because i am claiming their circumstances are similiar as for the competitive part that is objectively untrue as gd is a single player game. there are competitive aspects of the game but that doesnt take away from the fact that gd itself isnt competitive which i also already addressed in teh video

[@AbandonmentFarmer]

You did not clearly lay out the difference between space and fnm04 as you claim you did, literally listen to what you said. And yes, gd is a single player game, but clearing list demons and submitting them to pointercrate is a multiplayer competitive activity. At this point I genuinely believe this video is rage bait.

[@Sepi-chu_loves_moths]

it's arbitrary semantics whether cbf is considered cheating or not and i dont think thats not really important to the argument GD *can be* a competitive game. But many people aren't playing for the competitive aspect, even top players who just beat levels because they enjoy them, so I don't think it should be counted as competitive in total. But then that br8ngs up the argument of why someone who isn't competitive should care that their record isn't on the demonl8st say.

[@niftycatlololol]

i’m not talking about the list i’m talking about geometry dahs

[@niftycatlololol]

this is is probably the best reply to any comment on this whole video

[@Xtinctlol]

Lazy, stupid, stubborn game developer = community taking things into their own hands. Community taking things into their own hands = lazy developer is angry

[@niftycatlololol]

robtop can do whatever he wants w his game i dont think he owes us anything

[@seevnr5905]

@@niftycatlololol maybe not but if he chooses to not fix his own game its lame to get mad when the community does it for him

[@niftycatlololol]

@@seevnr5905 i agree i never denied that

[@Xtinctlol]

@@niftycatlololol I mean he can do whatever he wants yeah but then his whole community will hate him, making some players leave who can’t access mega hack or stuff like that. Also, this doesn’t rly have anything to do with it but bro is threatening to not rate levels if they abuse spike hitboxes. The hitboxes he made… he comes off as pretty stupid and egotistical

[@tessal6555]

@@Xtinctlol He has a problem with the texture not the spikes themselves, he explained this himself later on. Also he's clearly trying to bring megahack features to the main game, and now he's even making his own CBF.

[@totallynormalminecart519]

fps bypass 2

[@lithium8913]

the problem is that kangaroo island is still not rated

[@Puggled64]

I personally think that higher fps values should have never been allowed in the game and that the game should still be locked to 60 fps. BUT i only started playing like a year ago so I wasn’t playing back when higher fps values was first allowed. If i played back then I definitely would be against higher fps play but everybody does that now. What i don’t get is why the same people who say that cbf is cheating will also say that playing on higher fps is fine, its basically the same thing only on different levels. I do support cbf and use it sometimes but im just trying to get my point across being if playing above 60 fps is allowed then why is cbf not?

[@AbandonmentFarmer]

60fps simply doesn’t allow the game to be hard enough the way people want it to be.

[@Puggled64]

@@AbandonmentFarmer tell that to any mobile player

[@cat.guy_.1]

The FPS value couldve been changed vanilla by buying another pc with higher refresh rate. Now, CBF cant be obtained in any way through vanilla because you would need an 8000hz monitor which will basically never happen. And another thing to point out is that CBF changes physics. The best way to prove that is that, well the Nullscapes detector works. If thats not enough proof you can check Kiba’s TWT acc and look at one of the most recent posts saying why CBF is cheating and all that

[@SawBSketch]

Being on one side but not automatically invalidating the opinions of others is a skill in so many communities and situations that people should be learning about this. I would personally consider cbf to be an alternative to fps bypass for people who can't get their pc to run fast enough for the frames to basically have no delay. It basically is cheating, but honestly the biggest question ever i have with ever gd community "drama" is "Who the heck cares?" I still give you kudos for speaking your mind, and giving me a perfectly well phrased perspective of someone who considers cbf as a cheat.

[@Bingusrl]

The title of this video has the most controversial statement in gd at the moment and then says but that’s not the problem? That’s just crazy

[@Skylight4]

I feel that cbf will start to get bigger in usage as the skill gap increases due to it allowing so much more

[@peacefulutilities8972]

The only reason CBF was called as Cheating, isn't because it made the game easier, isn't because it allow you to click between frame, ETC, the only reason CBF was called as cheating it's because Robtop doesn't allow, implement and including it into the game, when robtop does all the things above, problem solved! EDIT: In fact that Robtop does trying to making his own version of CBF, already proves this mod is really a game changer, and since the demonlist allowing it for a top level, it makes Top 1 verification like grief are still going to get the excitement, even tho grief probably won't get rated in the game, it's still going to be shown as Top 1 on the website.

[@niftycatlololol]

yes that’s why it’s widely considered cheating, not why it actually is cheating

[@gpt-jcommentbot4759]

Nope CBF should be banned it make skill gap too large because it make game more easy

[@niftycatlololol]

@@gpt-jcommentbot4759 i never said it should or shouldnt be banned. that doesnt really matter. regardless of if its banned theres nothing unethical about using it as long as youre transparent

[@Syoul_GD]

tbh i dont even give the slightest fuck about the drama lmao

[@en_pitsuu]

it just feels like the same discussion we had years ago about fps bypass. except now instead of you only getting benefits from it if you can run it, anyone can.

[@ХорошыйЧеловек-ъ3т]

I use cbf because I play the game for fun. That's all.

[@OfferOne]

Ok

[@Tom18527]

What did i do

[@niftycatlololol]

sorry tom but it was all your fault

[@pedrosloog]

its ok tom it wasn't your fault

[@Sepi-chu_loves_moths]

I'm not sure tom part of it was your fault

[@smileyfacehdle]

everyone asks what did tom do but nobody how did tom do

[@alchemist6306]

We went from the 144hz controversy to this

[@f1d248]

i genuinely think people would be more open to cbf if it was just named something like Accurate Clicks or Non-Framerate Based Clicking

[@earth3039]

Good message and claim that is well explained. 95% of kids missed the points of this vid or is probably ragebait, I'll give a word of advice for you to just ignore them

[@Akko_lofi]

cbf is just not cheating and I don't get how it could be. All it does is make the game not pay to win anymore. I and many others don't want to spend 200 on a 360 hz monitor just to have a chance at playing top levels

[@niftycatlololol]

making the game more fair and it being cheating are not mutually exclusive

[@Atell4]

you are the first and only person I've seen who has addressed this properly.

[@DimensionaIGd]

I think it’s unfair because every previous list demon that was before 2.2 did not use CBF drastically, Nerfing timings

[@Sepi-chu_loves_moths]

But nerfing them in a way that wasn't related to your skill itself. It is true that it makes a level easier, I dont think anyone is denying that, but if disclosed properly then everyone will be aware of that fact and that it's not how the level was verified, and recognise that its not quite as impressive an achievement but still impressive. It's the same idea for levels verified on 60hz like cataclysm and such. Sure, it's more of an achievement to do it with the extra buff of being more inconsistent, but it shouldn't be disallowed to do so without.

[@necrolord5799]

Most pros say that 360 2.1 was easier than 240 cbf 2.2

[@joshuashi9826]

@@necrolord5799 that's true of ship, but a lot of extreme demons now are wave carried

[@Plaquepsoriasis]

I personally don’t use cbf because I focus on platformer levels and the physics completely shatters with cbf, but as long as you are open about using cbf, it’s fine; others may not like it, but that’s just the consequences of using cbf. You can’t say that cbf needs to be completely accepted but the community to be used because nothing is. I agree with this video 100%

[@havy_jonny]

all we need is cbf to be actually implemented in the original game, robtop needs to realize this is pretty much essential for people that dont have high end techs to run gd smoothly, and/or play gd without any limitations

[@niftycatlololol]

i dont see why thats his problem tbh

[@summunkid]

i never got this controversy. why do people care about how other people play the game?

[@niftycatlololol]

@@summunkid mostly because the competitive community sees it as unfair

[@summunkid]

@niftycatlololol makes sense. but for the average casual player i think its ridiculous to care about this stuff

[@niftycatlololol]

@@summunkid yea i agree

[@zzderp]

@@niftycatlololol some players got huge skill buffs from it one jumped from toe to bloodbath? i think pls dont judge me on it

[@joshuashi9826]

@@summunkid there's nothing wrong with being involved in a community. You may not be a professional athlete, or even a good one, but you can still be excited about the Olympics (and other games). You may not be a great e-sports player, but you can be excited about tournaments. You may not be a top GD player, but you can still be excited about difficult verifications and the competitive community as a whole.

[@zhonow]

don't worry, gonna keep usin

[@H34V3N.98]

i mean hey, as long as the list allows it, ima be takin out cbf to dinner every single day ❤

[@ItsLuminousGD]

This video will 100% go viral mark my words

[@Mrmanxyz]

yooo itsluminous famous person alert

[@Mewtwo557]

The game isn't broken, it's just shooting itself in the foot so that its potential is capped at 240. Cbf is kind of just the off-brand band aid that people use because it's either that or switching to 2.1.

[@plasmakitten4261]

I still havent seen a good argument for how CBF is, on an ethical level, meaningfully different from FPS bypass. History should repeat itself here; it's just that the demon list has gotten it right much quicker, and somehow RobTob is the one being obstructionist for no reason.

[@niftycatlololol]

i dont really think there is a right or wrong answer tbh. like either way half of everyone is going to be mad

[@plasmakitten4261]

@@niftycatlololol True but if we see how these things eventually turn out, we could save a lot of time and drama by just skipping to the end now

[@niftycatlololol]

@@plasmakitten4261 i dont think making any sort of formal decision will change anything though. people who still want to use to the mod will still use it and people who are against it will still oppose it regardless of what anyone says or based off of whoever they may believe has authority to control what people do

[@plasmakitten4261]

@@niftycatlololol True, but peoples opinions can be safely ignored without actually hurting anyone's ability to play the game as long as those people are not RobTop or the demonlist.

[@zecaf7145]

I use cbf because it is easily and freely accecible to 99% of competitive players and it makes the game fundamentally better.

[@fornite-qb8dm]

I hope sizzy deletes cbf so people can stfu about it

[@niftycatlololol]

this would not make people shut up about it

[@firestormjupiter]

honestly everyone would just shut up if/when rob adds cbf as a feature to the game

[@rallicat69]

this would make people louder about it lol

[@Ceppyz]

Cbf is not unfair, everyone can use cbf, on mobile and pc, everyone has access to it

[@BtGram]

Especially with people who has issues with fps bypass like screen tearing or lag on higher frame rates, this mod only exist for people with bad hardware

[@lessgenericname]

on ios the only implementation of cbf is paid and it's not available at all on android and mac

[@d1kgaws12]

I think that cbf usage is ok as long as you do not lie about not using it.

[@SawBSketch]

One thing i think about though, is that even if we had something like vanilla vs modded demonlists/leaderboards or whatever else, It still feels like there's people who'd consider this controversial, given how some people's standpoint is that fps bypass is not cheating but cbf is, when mechanically fps bypass is just "better hardware = less latency" when cbf is "less latency for everyone :D" i would be perfectly fine with everyone's opinions if we just treat non-hack style modded gameplay as equal to eachother, keeping the game divided to a vanilla/modded groups instead of vanilla/megahack/cbf/whatever comes next

[@heywix]

Saying cbf makes the game easier is like saying any game is easier when there isnt lag

[@NIMPOP]

Interesting take! Nice video

[@Opianisal]

THIS IS THE BEST CBF VIDEO

[@LandonSillito]

How is having your game react to your input when you actually click, not when your computer registers the click, after a set amount of time cheating? It does not make sense, because in a game, when you click, it should be able to instantly respond with with the result of whatever that click was supposed to do. Many games have this in their game, and it does not make sense to call it cheating when all your doing is making it respond to your clicks accurately.

[@niftycatlololol]

its cheating cause the game doesnt actually do that and you are changing the game to instead do it

[@LandonSillito]

@@niftycatlololol yes but fbs bypass is allowed and not considered cheating. Also cbf is just doing what clicks are supposed to do. Doesn't aimbot your clicks or anything lol

[@LandonSillito]

@@niftycatlololol show hitboxes is def cheating, that's for me something that I think should not be allowed (when it first came out it was on demonlist but ofc not for a long time). Even if cbf considered "cheating", the advantage is so minimal and other people can easily get that mod for free

[@LandonSillito]

@@niftycatlololol btw I respect your opinion but I believe it should 100% be allowed

[@niftycatlololol]

fps bypass is also cheating

[@Regian]

i think that elephant is right in this context. elephant's great!

[@GodtierGD]

Fair enough. I also do not support cbf but I have zero problem with others using it.

[@sodoo4507]

Using cbf is playing gd on easy mode

[@Cagadero1]

CBF is more like playing with your real skill instead of cheating, anyway playing or not playing with CBF doesn't make much difference, what really matters is the skill and patience you have in the game, just like you say in the video, good video.

[@justnotgood5628]

I think a lot of people missed the point of the video, which is this negative stigma around the word "cheating" from its use in those who use cheats and lie about not using said cheats. FPS bypass is considered cheating, but we don't call it that because we want to believe it is a good thing and that "cheating" is a bad thing, and same can be said with almost any external mods that make the game slightly more convenient for our selves as even if stuff like faster respawn or just some visual optimization would be considered cheating as it technically speeds up your ability to beat levels. but we don't call these "cheats" because we immediately think that those who use it are no better than hackers who are only out for themselves. CBF isn't any different, it is cheating just like everything else, but its only because it has this spooky scary "cheating" label which makes it only feel different rather than just being another tool people can use to make their game more enjoyable. There are plenty of games that have similar moding communities which also have similar issues but its really up to you whether you want to use it or not. Its your game and your experience.

[@moley7689]

I'm personally against the use of cbf and I think it's cheating, but I agree with you that that's not the problem at all. There have been many cheats in the past, what makes cbf different to stuff like fps bypass though, is that you cannot achieve the same results as cbf without cbf. With fps bypass, if you had a 60Hz monitor and you had enough money to spend on a 360Hz monitor, you could buy it, play on 360 and then you wouldn't have to use fps bypass anymore. Fps bypass was just a way of making that 700$ monitor essentially free. But with cbf, no matter how much money you spend on hardware, you cannot achieve the same results as cbf.

[@kolya_SAKHA]

Kind of makes sense tbh

[@Vox-912]

So, to be good at the game you have to spend hundreds of dollars on a monitor? thats just stupid, cbf just makes the game difficulty possible for everyone

[@monote43]

CBF makes it only rely on the input device, its technically the right aproach to all the physics discusion, if anything is an upgrade to FPS bypass

[@Jetaru]

​@@Vox-912thats not the argument they were making at all.

[@AbandonmentFarmer]

Well, if you could find a 8000Hz monitor you could mimic the effect of cbf on a sayo device. But why should skill be locked behind being able to buy these things?

[@gdforgor]

even if it is cheating, it should be allowed as it makes the game more accesable

[@vrmbek]

the whole controversy would end if the list was split into two categories, one where cbf is banned (for people who care about vanilla legitimacy) and one where it's allowed. people who don't want to use cbf wouldn't have to nor would they have to compete with people who have an unfair advantage over them and people who want to use cbf could use it and they could submit their completions to the list, literally everyone gets what they want

[@evanescencenjoyer223]

1:45 this is dark souls/elden ring all over again, oh but you used a cheesy weapon!! yeah, because why not? oh but you you were using cbf!! yeah, because why not?

[@Antegggggggggg]

The reason why 360fps was allowed is that piepass existed and also there are real 360hz monitors, the reason why cbf is not allowed is because it basically acts as if you were playing on 1000000fps (prob idk) with 240fps/tps (idc) physics, so basically 1000000fps (or something like that)without any of the negatives (scroll speed bug, high gravity, etc) and you wouldnt be able to achieve the same results without cbf, idk why people dont understand that

[@joshuashi9826]

high FPS bugs don't exist in 2.2. Physics are controlled by the tick system. Vanilla GD physics: always 240Hz (equivalent to 60FPS in 2.1) CBF physics (average): (240 + your CPS)Hz but the additional ticks are placed on your clicks. So it's like 1 000 000 FPS in 2.1. But you're lagging really hard, so it's actually 60FPS. But the lag instantly stops and restarts when you click, and at regular intervals. So it's an average of 65 or so FPS, but inconsistent.

[@JetLagRecords]

niftycat, cool video keep up the amazing content

[@flakeygd]

The problem with CBF is it isn't endorsed by robtop. I find people who just believe Robs opinion is invalid as a bit of an asshole. It's like it you let someone into your house, said don't touch something and your touched it. I also feel CBF devalues people's achievements, as verifiers are currently not allowed to use it, but then once it's on the list people are free to use an external program to make it easier. It's similar to if the demon list was to allow speed hacks but rob didn't. It makes it unfair to verifiers as it devalues their achievements

[@niftycatlololol]

i couldn’t care less about what robtop thinks

[@niftycatlololol]

also if you think that devalues someone’s achievement then you aren’t looking at it at face value

[@darksun4029]

people acting like cbf turns extreme demons into the nightmare

[@zeenoh5811]

also the argument that fps bypass is just like cbf and was allowed to even the playing field: i feel like people have forgotten about Piepass and why fps bypass was eventually allowed

[@Aerobrake]

THANK YOU. SOMEONE WHO ACTUALLY IS THINKING RATIONALLY.

[@tempered-geography]

Everyone keeps saying cbf is cheating because it's something you can't achieve in the vanilla game, but what they don't say is just how miniscule of a change it is. For people who already have good equipment like a good input device and a 360hz monitor, there is basically no difference. Technically there is a difference, but it's so small that it shouldn't be considered. So while you cannot technically achieve what cbf does in vanilla gd, you can get so close to it that I don't think it really matters. All the mod would really do for people is even the playing field.

[@cat.guy_.1]

You have a point, sorta, but, what most people don’t realise is that CBF changes physics, and the best way to prove that is that the Nullscapes detector works, I mean the physics are locked to 240 fps right? If thats not enough evidence, you can look at one of the most recent TWT posts made by Kiba where he explains in another way how it changes physics

[@zSpacetundra]

reminds me of the sunix fps bypass controversy, is it js me?

[@afampus]

Honestly I agree, and I don’t have any criticism/notes

[@ominoussage]

I think one of the main problems also is that the word "cheating" is very powerful but vague in the GD community. For some, it's just outright wrong. For others like you, it's more lax and it's alright as long as you admit to everyone that you're doing it. Some players that believe CBF isn't cheating will get offended if you say "...CBF is cheating..." because they have their own understanding of cheating in this game that's stronger than how you perceive "cheating". For me personally, your video was a bit of an eye-opener for me. I'm on the CBF side and I still do get upset whenever you say that it's cheating, but as you said, everyone has a different opinion on whether this mod is cheating or not and this is probably a topic where everyone can't agree with anyone's opinion about it.

[@GodIfSHEwasReal]

me and my girlfriend are big fucking cheaters grah

[@MrMeow-dk2tx]

Wonder how many people in this debate are demon list people debating on whether or not it's cheating for that.... Generalizing it to the whole of GD because they think that the demon list=only real way of being, "Good" at GD. I mean it's what a lot of focus is on from outside after all, the really stupid hard levels in that list.... Look honestly at times the love of that list has resulted in, so much nonsense overall. Not saying it should be removed... But damn it, other playstyles need to be brought forward aside from,"ZOMG! HE BEAT ALL STUPID HARD DEMONS?????"

[@l2ghtbulb]

of course nifty's vid on cbf gets like 10 bajillion more views than usual

[@skyzx710]

I don't understand why almost no one complained when almost everyone used 360 fps bypass, which is literally changes the game physics, and now those people complain about CBF, a mod that almost don't changes a physics of the game and just allows you to click with a higher polling rate

[@niftycatlololol]

people did complain a lot

[@skyzx710]

@@niftycatlololol I meant last years like 2021-2023

[@tessal6555]

Changing physics used to be allowed according to robtop, now however it is not.

[@skyzx710]

@@tessal6555 he never said he isn't allowing to play levels with cbf, he just said he won't rate levels verified with cbf, and also he said that he may add a similar feature in the future.

[@tessal6555]

@@skyzx710 pretty sure getting leaderboard banned is still possible with CBF.

[@fartblaster9001]

you can see if somebody is useing cbf is at the end screen at the top right

[@zAlex_idk]

Playing at 120fps without cbf is more accurate than playing at 60fps with cbf, and playing at 240fps without cbf is more accurate than playing at 120fps with cbf so the mod is not that useful idk why is ppl taking it so far

[@ccloudy22]

now explain it in fortnite terms