cEDH in China is CRAZY | cEDH Top 16 Breakdown

Today I'm taking a look at CommanderFest Guangzhou's cEDH tournament, a 73-player in-person event that took place in China. This event is a wild combination of cEDH staples you expect, bits from the Japanese and European metas, and some unique stuff I've NEVER covered. The decks featured are Korvold, Tymna/Kydele, Sisay, Tevesh/Thrasios, Kess, Tymna/Kraum, Nadu, Oswald Fiddlebender, Talion, Rakdos, Tivit, Magda, and Tymna/Dargo.
Let me know which of these decks was your favorite in the comments below!
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Chapters
0:00 - Intro
1:12 - Promo Stuff
2:09 - Meta Breakdown
3:05 - Tivit
5:31 - Tymna/Dargo
8:31 - Nadu
10:16 - Korvold
13:20 - Magda
16:36 - Rakdos, the Muscle
20:12 - Kess
23:07 - Sisay
24:34 - Talion
27:18 - Tymna/Kraum
28:51 - Korvold 2
30:58 - Nadu 2
32:13 - Tevesh/Thrasios
36:10 - Tymna/Kydele
39:21 - Sisay 2
40:29 - Oswald Fiddlebender
46:21 - Wrap-up

[@LemorasCards]

Which of these decks were your favorite? What do you think of the Chinese meta? Let me know down below!

[@InfinityRift7]

This is definitely a very local-looking meta... Guangzhou seems to hate Ragavan, and I'm all for it. I've played in the Chinese semi-competitve and competitive metas for a long time now (I grew up and to an extent still live in China), but exclusively in Shanghai. I'm unsure of what the turnout for the Shanghai CommandFest event in August is going to be like, but I think I'll be participating. We have many talented pilots over here; lots of Kinnan and Blue Farm players, a couple of Najeela pilots, a couple of K'rrik fanatics, and many more players who have some lesser-seen, spicy decks. I have a friend who also happens to be the only Ashling pilot I know of in our circle, and he's been popping off with the deck recently in testing. Can confirm the Kydele pilot's statement about games going longer here on the other side of the Pacific to be true. We generally tend to be a lot more mid-range-based and for the most part players tend to be a lot more cautious of going for wins too early. We also closely follow US tourney results, so most card choices in meta decks are either a reasonable take or are basically 1-for-1 compared to the US meta. For CF Shanghai specifically, I expect to see a bit more turbo than usual because it seems everyone's either trying to control for Nadu or run underneath Nadu and win before it gets off the ground, and turbo-slanted decks seem to be the better choice thus far.

[@stevenjones9310]

​@@InfinityRift7so your the one I need to talk to. What part of China did you play and is that part of China a free country? Their are many different reasons why I ask this question but I'll put simply China is not from an outside looking in perspective a free country and also the poor and wealthie ratio is astronoicle, poo really look poor and wealthy are super wealthie. Would you say you playing cards in China is a wealth thing? And again last I checked gambling and card playing is heavily sanctioned. Please your thoughts

[@InfinityRift7]

@@stevenjones9310 In China gambling is illegal. Card games like MTG, YGO, and Pokémon TCG are ok and are seen as recreational activities. About your statement of the poor being really poor and wealthy being really wealthy, I don’t think that that statement is exclusive to China in any way. This phenomenon is also easily findable in the US, and I would actually argue to a much greater extent. It is actually much more livable in China if you aren’t wealthy as a Chinese citizen, since there are government programs (including VERY affordable healthcare) that make it easier for the average Chinese person to live their life, for the most part. Playing Magic in paper has definitely gotten more expensive, and that’s probably true regardless of where you are in the world. That being said, there are very notable differences between the Chinese and Western markets for the game. For example, a card like Doubling Season might be worth more in the US, while in China it’s considered to be more of a bulk rare. Recently and with the upcoming removal of Chinese language localization, there has been (and I expect there will continue to be) a shift in pricing for many singles towards the western market prices (TCG, etc). Usually English cards are worth more than Chinese cards, so it will be interesting to see how the prices and market here shift after Bloomburrow. More recently Chinese players have started making the distinction between cards printed in Japan vs cards printed in the US, and Japanese-print cards are fetching higher prices in most if not all cases due to poor quality control in the US print facilities when it comes to MTG. This is something I’ve only seen happen here in China; these distinctions aren’t made in the US at all.

[@haoranfranklinsu4204]

Hi! I am the pilot of the Kydele deck here😊 This whole deck is tuned according to Sam Black's theory of flying under the radar & no “bad” tutor/fast mana. Similiar to the cutting Seedborn Muse idea, I intentionally cut Ad Naus and PitA. Those cards win you games once resolved, but facing increasing RoL effects and midranged blue decks with tons of interactions, I would rather cut them and pursue more medium level threat that other players might just let you resolve, such as Inner Sun and Orrery. Usually people ignore it or have to use counterspells on more game-winning spells, and those medium level threat grinds insane value in mid and late game. Extra turn spell is just another thing that generates unlimited value but people hesistate to counter it, with extra synergy with Inner Sun and Citadel. For mana dorks, I cut every 1 toughness dork but Bloom Tender due to the unbelivable prevalence of Bowmasters, as we try to drag the game into late game it is almost certain we will be Bowed at least once. Finally, the adding of Necrodominance gives the deck new ways to end the game in a sudden. With Kydele on the field, if you Necrodominance for 37, you generated 38 colourless with Kydele. That more than enough for you to secure a win with Borne Upon a Wind or Crop Rotation & Emergence Zone, and you can bring down Madara to remove a stax piece. Here's some math: with 88 cards in deck and no source of flash in hand and 1G/U open, activating either necro with 37 cards will have 76% plus winrate. One last word, the deck is tuned to local stax/midrange meta, and has been tested out with 1000+ games in the last few years. Not all cedh decks are with all low MV cards that allows a turn 2 Ad Naus. Sometimes some cards that looks stupid and battle level are not as stupid as it seems with the right strategy and synergy.

[@haoranfranklinsu4204]

Plus, IsoRev is kinda useless in this deck, as we don't have a Thrasios in the commander zone. After IsoRev, you still need a payoff card to yield from infinite mana. Usually if we have the payoff like Staff of Dominion or Citadel, we won already.

[@izzzx]

舒服

[@drackoex]

Thank you for the breakdown on that sweet list! It's clearly a fun play for politicking too!

[@haoranfranklinsu4204]

Exactly! With multiple powerful medium level threats, late game plans, and intense interactions, this deck is built for powerful politicking. Usually I will talk through hard situations in the early game, use high dense medium level threats to reinforces the mid game without being heavily interacted, and basically dominate the late game. Somehow this deck helps me to become one of the most famous politicking cedh players in China lol

[@ry7hym]

very cool deck building style m8!

[@orioncampos]

I played in this Command Fest. It was great! About the winner, he has been playing this deck for the past 3 years. He truly mastered Oswald. A well deserved first place.

[@LemorasCards]

Hell yeah that's so sick. Love to see people rewarded for that level of commitment, bet he has a ton of fun playing that list.

[@MrMargiritaMan]

HOLY FUCK THE PAST 3 YEARS I PUSHED OSWALD and worked with the 1 other specialist to make the flash speed twiddle variant and it's amazing to see the meta. 2 yisans in top 16 and an Oswald taking first. Top decks win through stax right now like rule of law, they win through silence effects, and they put straight to the battlefield. AWESOME VIDEO LETS GO OSWALD WE UP!!!!

[@drackoex]

Would you be able to break down the various pod/egg lines? I see some but I feel there's some crazy complex ones that really push this list

[@MrMargiritaMan]

@@drackoex so this one has some of the twiddle flash core of oswald but his list looks to be based more around a storm concept. Helm of awakening is usually not used in oswald same with the top and mystic forge. He has no aether flux payout but it seems more centered on storming out prophetic prisms and chromatic. If you want my personal list it still has pod lines but its more on flash casting, unwinding clock, clock of omens and silence effects. Twiddling on everyone's turn untapping your artifacts to keep storming that way while able to continually silence. The list that won is close on concept but actually casting to storm more of. Oswald has super explosive super tight pod lines and awesome ways to finish out a game

[@2d_spartan]

Oswald was my first attempt at a cedh list! He was always super fun. Sadly I think he just fell off because stax fell off on the US side of things anyways. Maybe he deserves another look in the current meta! If you have a list id love to see it!

[@jasper-vo1wd]

i always thought twiddle effects were super underplayed in those decks. glad someone else shares that opinion!

[@JakeForste]

"If you give me a mean comment about it... i WILL tell your mom" 😂😂😂

[@LemorasCards]

Don't test me, I'll do it!

[@pokedadsam9041]

Man, I’m glad this was up top. Almost asked if he lost a bet for cowtown. 😃

[@saltyseas416]

He looks like mom, yes my mom

[@mizzlchieizzl]

This is now my go to

[@mandielyn0416]

Oswald Fiddlebender, the Gnome, the myth, the legend. The hero we all deserve. I have been playing this deck for years and love it. However, I have never played it in a tournament setting. That is not about to change now but I love seeing it take one down!

[@Teknomahge]

I was today years old when i learned that there isnt a monkey on Meathook Massacre

[@craigrgriffin]

The oswald fiddlebender list is by far my favorite. I've tried out the stax version of the deck before, but this turbo-eggs version is 🔥

[@DefCatofficial]

AYO, love the shave man! looks super clean!

[@coreyhayslip5418]

Great vid and coverage as usual. Wild top 4

[@tcgmetaslayer4202]

Great spread of decks! 💯

[@Holden_Prio]

Great video, and the clean shaven look is nice! 👍

[@LemorasCards]

Thank ya!

[@brendonford3838]

I’m surprised no isochron scepter in the kydel deck. Maybe just because it’s easier to punish imprint? Idk, I’d risk it

[@robdroptables]

Bloodboiler is there to combo with Barry (Battered Golem). It's a way to go infinite through Null Rod effects. Null Rod is super, super good in Magda. Apple is an infinite combo with Welder to generate treasures and win. Thanks for bringing this content to a wider audience!

[@user-jj1qj4pq6o]

Lookin sharp dude!!!

[@itsnova504]

Good video! Korvold is old is on Red Elemental blast and Pyroblast, I think you accidentally said it wasn’t brotha. Keep up the great work!

[@sayntfuu]

slowly building that real card deck, just got my consultation, oracle, and pact.

[@LemorasCards]

Nice! Getting close to having two of mine together now, just gotta take it one card at a time.

[@InfinityRift7]

<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="694">11:34</a> REB: Hey! I'm on display over here!

[@dantekelly9715]

That first Korvald list definitely had both pyroblast and red elemental blast in it. <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="698">11:38</a>

[@dantekelly9715]

Wrong time stamp. Sorry. 11:38

[@TheAldjiunar]

Go Oswald! My second favorite was that Thras/Tevesh. I like the sound of that.

[@VD-dx7gu]

pongify and rapid hybridization can also be used for both a nadu trigger and a creature for nadu triggers from that one nadu deck

[@mrJanbenes]

Its interesting how non-optimized Nadu decklist still can get top 5. Just shows what great pilot can do.

[@TripsAhoy]

Very cool to hear Oswald winning an event! You know Mr Gaddock Teeg aprroves of this for sure! ❤❤❤

[@mrnixon2287]

nice recap. thanks.

[@LemorasCards]

@mrnixon2287 thank you!

[@nikolaosfilopoulos4856]

Not sure if mentioned, Talion being a must draw can be awkward with Consult lines. Idk if flare is good enough as it's booty outside of that situation, but turning off Talion for a win attempt is real.

[@PubStompMTG]

Always love seeing Korvold make it!

[@pixielilla7369]

I also cut Birds of paradise from most of my decks... bowmasters is so harmful to the format. I kept track over 30 games and of the 12 I played birds 0 times did I get to untap with it before getting pinged down. Anecdotal I know, but in general if I can avoid 1 toughness creatures now I do Especially if they need to tap to be useful. I had the same problem with bloom tender, but bloom tender can be a combo piece on the rare occasion it does untap.

[@RayneShunner]

I live in Singapore, most people here are PL 6-8 and there were this one china tourist came into LGS and he claimed to be PL 6 and launched the game off with tutor and infinite combos.

[@龙天逸]

Hello, I am the deck creator of Oswald Fiddlebender. Given that this is new building deck, many people don't know how it operates. I would love to share the strategy guide for this deck with everyone. I completed this guide about two weeks ago and just published it today on the Chinese social media platform I collaborate with. If you are interested, I can discuss the possibility of reposting it with them.

[@LemorasCards]

Of course!

[@龙天逸]

@@LemorasCards I tried to send my article link but it disappeared quickly. Maybe I cannot do that in KZbin? Please give me your email address

[@龙天逸]

@@LemorasCards I want to share my article link and email address but it was deleted in a few seconds. I don't use KZbin very often. Pls tell me how to do

[@dimitriid]

I think the main Oswald line he's running is just recursion based sacrifice: Sacrifice Scrap Trawler to KCI, then it triggers and brings back Myr Retriever which sacrifices to KCI and restarts. Now I don't see too many cost reductors outside of Helm of Awakening for this to be net positive but if you throw any mana rock into the mix like Grim Monolith or Mana Vault and it turns mana-positive and henceforth Infinite targetting Walking Ballista. This can also net infinite mana with many of the draw card artis he runs so I'm guessing if there's a piece missing (Like Ballista) he attempts to just draw into it by force as part of the combo anyway. I usually like to at least keep Rings of Brightheart + Basalth Monolith since both being 3 CMC can be tutored with a doubler on Oswald: If done right this means you get your mana a turn earlier for example Illusionists Bracers equipped then sacrificed to bring Brightheart + Basalt to get your infinite mana and infinite untaps, but KCI is also a solid choice given the graveyard recursion once you establish an efficient line it can probably turn the corner even faster and make room for more defense stuff (I.E. Grand Abolisher is more efficient in this deck but not Oswald tutoreable, it's usually better to have Conqueror's Flail but more mana intensive to do so)

[@andrewkelley6039]

never knew that was a hand in the meathook massacre art

[@ManMan-ho5gu]

To me flare makes sense in talion to protect a win line because it lets you pull of thoracle safely. Or if you're just close to a winning state you can stop someone else's win and go for it on your turn.

[@nealcrabtree3647]

I'm here to praise Magda ❤

[@tcgmetaslayer4202]

I still like stern scolding to stop creatures and not give my opponent a 2/2, if anything Id use it with strix serenade for redundancy

[@LemorasCards]

Yeah I think you run it in addition but rarely over. I'm okay to give my opponent a 2/2 if it means I can counter Ranger Captain.

[@ethanhopper2467]

The old Modern KCI loops can easily produce infinite mana, for example KCI + Trawler + Retriever + Mox Opal + any 1 mana artifact is infinite.

[@psychevolvexrp777]

I'm telling your mom you shaved, she'll be disappointed LOL

[@ry7hym]

ah makes sense, I was like "where's the beard??"

[@spenserroxsox]

Do chinese players have good access to restricted cards? I assume not after seeing these lists

[@your_priscylla]

Anna was running Tymna/Kydele for a bit! super cool to see it played elsewhere, def gives me some ideas i wanna show her

[@izzyskeemy]

*Lesssss goooooo*

[@untilthewheelsfalloff1751]

Asia and any other place outside of the US is always crazy because they played to win. In the US they play to not lose.

[@NybarMTG]

Yaaaaaaaa RAKDOS THE MUSCLE

[@chellthealchemist4751]

SHAVED FACEEEEE

[@primeshifter1699]

lol I didn’t notice the beard until you said it and then that’s all I could look at after. Why did you do that lol

[@LemorasCards]

@@primeshifter1699 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[@primeshifter1699]

My dad would call you a respectable clean, shaving man

[@davidcrain453]

Beards weird lol

[@teamf6920]

Dont tell my mom

[@antoniocardoso7129]

Who is this new host ?

[@thomasantoine6194]

My mom is asking where is you beard she kind of liked that?

[@LemorasCards]

@thomasantoine6194 it's almost back, I'll send her a pic.

[@thomasantoine6194]

😂😂😂

[@MrVSean]

too fucking hot out here

[@Logic-cg7qy]

Chinese event huh? I wonder if they allowed proxies 🙄🤣😆

[@Helixcards]

It's basically pronounced goo-ang jo

[@thecitizen6860]

"NaDu Is ToO gOoD, BaN iT" bunch of clowns let a deck breathe and meta adjust

[@LemorasCards]

@thecitizen6860 yeah definitely not too good, just a new thing you gotta be ready for

[@thecitizen6860]

@@LemorasCards what's funny too me even more is the modern people calling for the ban. They swore up and down modern horizons was just another commander set. Like nothing would do anything in modern lol

[@adamcomeau3731]

Beards are for men are like push up bras for women 😂

[@stevenjones9310]

I'm highly skeptical of this post and it's authenticity, China lied about the corona virus, who knows if thisbis just a group of Chinese nationals posting content that's can be perceived as a mtg tournament, again considering most of China doesn't allow gambling or trading card games or much of anything for that matter.

[@LemorasCards]

@@stevenjones9310 bruh

[@stevenjones9310]

​@LemorasCards feel free to prove me wrong at any point we can have a healthy discussion about the country that holds our debts but also slaps us on the world stage anytime we ask questions like "have we As aspiring nations don't have poverty, racism and radical incels that terrorize the population" and both countries laugh at each other for even ask the question, since again I'm sure you would say we have both poverty in some areas that's really bad and racism that in my opinion is largely promoted by media during specific cycles to flare voters into blindly voting like how for obama and the next now his vice president who's absolute dumb ass but also a shill for China. So again healthy discussion