Cell Punch Method of Queen Rearing. My first attempt using this method

My first attempt at queen rearing using the cell punch method using a cell punch frame sent to me by the lovely people at BBWear. This method is a very easy and interesting way to try to produce queen cells. It removes the need for grafting and you can sit at a table and take your time in selecting the right cells for use in the queen rearing process.
The cell punch kit comes ready made and set up on a national super frame and is a pleasure to use. In this first attempt I actually fail in my use and the only thing I can see that I did wrong is using the kit "new out of the bag". I'm going to check out why I failed and have another attempt really soon as I enjoyed using the cell punch kit.
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[@felipegomez5084]

Nice video and honest try. Cell push method is a good one as you mention for small scale queen rearing and those with no so good eyes. As a cell starter colony I prefer a "swarm box " (only bees polen and nectar without any chance to get eggs or young larva), and I miss in your video a step previous , I mean put the frame with the cell brand new into to starter colony to allows bee to polish/clean (transfer odor) all for some hours in advance and after that pick up the cell with the larva. Any way I enjoy your videos Best regards from Chile 🇨🇱🐝🇨🇱🐝🇨🇱🐝🇨🇱🐝🇨🇱

[@TheNorfolkHoneyCo]

Hi Felipe, Thanks for your comments. Yes I think you may be right with the idea of putting the frame into the cell to start with to build up a transfer odour as you describe it. Anyway, I will give it another try in the near future and see how I get on. Stewart

[@DreamofaHive]

I have watched video's in the past by a number of people who use cell punches and one thing they do that you did not is adjust the protruding cell wall. one just trims them back and another just pushes the edges out (ends up looking like flower petals )so that the bees can adjust the width of the cell without having to tear the walls down themselves. Kudos for showing the fail! Another difference i see in your videos is the composition of the cell builder - I have seen small cell builder colonies using a Nuc and containing only 2 honey/ pollen frames on outside and two frames with older larvae and emerging brood only then extra nurse bees that are shaken out in front of the Nuc to allow flying bees to instantly return to their colonies - whereas the nurse bees walk into the Nuc like a swarm. The other difference is that the cell frame is put into the Nuc at the time it is made up i.e. day before use. They are also fed sugar syrup. Might be worth a try as you could let this Nuc have a queen cell at the end of the day. Good luck for your next try ;)

[@TheNorfolkHoneyCo]

Hi DreamofaHive, Thanks for all your comments. I promised the mishaps as well as the successes! I'm grateful for all your suggestions and will have another bash soon before my season starts to finish which is not long now! Stewart

[@salambeekeeper9464]

hello, did you left that frame in the hive for 1 or 2 days before you put cells in it and to change smell and used to it.

[@beebob1279]

Have you given it another try? I'd like to see the video where it worked for you. I have to give you a lot of respect to show not every time we are successful. I enjoy your videos and it's a nice break when I get home from work. I never saw a system like that punch system before. I beekeeping friend gave my the typical punch to try it. It's been a few years and I just haven't gotten around to doing it.

[@TheNorfolkHoneyCo]

Hi B.B., I've had no success with the cell punch method and I don't mind showing my failures as well as the successes. I try not to come across as a "perfect beekeeper", we all make mistakes and if I can show beginners it's ok to get it wrong sometimes I guess they are more likely to give it a go and not worry when it isn't perfect. I might try it again this Summer but grafting is easier and more successful for me. Stewart

[@dermotrothwell6078]

Hi Stewart think the cell punch frame needed to be in the hive for 24 hours b4 cell punching for the bees to formilierise themselves to it could you give it another go this year plz

[@MrClarkycn]

Hi Stewart, I wonder if this was a total broodless colony this may off been more successful,I'm hoping you will have another attempt sometime in the future,just to say as well many thxs for all your advice and support I know certainly it has helped me out time and time again as I'm sure it has for many more new and old beekeepers,thxs again Stewart chris.

[@TheNorfolkHoneyCo]

Hi Chris, Thanks for your comments. Yes, I think you are right, my season is over now but I will be having another try with it next year. Stewart

[@MansfieldPestControl]

Fantastic...... bees weren't made over the weekend.... every day is a school day.. looking forward to version 2.

[@jayarrdee]

When the brass tube was placed in the clip, it appeared to experience a significant jolt as it snapped into place. Perhaps the larva was separated from the brood food and starved before the nurse bees managed to get in there and provide more food.

[@tbp.whiteraven]

Hello Stewart I was thinking about the reasons why the bees had rejected the cells... Is it possible that your bees had allredy started producing their own queen cells a day or two before, and that they "didn't need" any additional ones, so they decided to rearrange the frame with the cells in what they needed - regular comb? Thank you

[@TheNorfolkHoneyCo]

Hi Tomislav, Thanks for the comments. The frames of brood I placed in with them were placed in the same day I think, but you may well be right that they chose those cells rather than the ones in the cell punches. I will give it another try soon before my season ends. Stewart

[@hannepelgrims2938]

Why did u put open brood in your builder?

[@gardankoi]

From what I heard I have to agree no open cells in your cell Builder and if there were they chose those to make Queen cells instead of the ones you gave them which is usually the case

[@charleskyler1928]

Hi Stewart, I think there might be an additional factor that is in play, time. Due to your excellent filming, the larva were exposed for quite a long time. There is the distinct probability that they simply dried out to much during the filming. We did a class last month, and one of the key items was a damp towel to keep the eggs/larva from drying out. I've watched a few others do this method, albeit with some hillbilly hardware, and had great results, but again, they used a damp towel to keep them covered. Let's give it another go! Cheers.

[@TheNorfolkHoneyCo]

Hi Charles, Thanks for your comments. Yes I agree with all that you have said. I certainly intend giving it another go as it was so straightforward. It's just one big learning curve for everyone, happy to try and fail and pass on my experiences to everyone. Stewart

[@irishmik]

Tried this last week and have had exactly the same result. I made the punches myself so they were brand new. Will try again this weekend to see if I can get more success now the punches have been ‘seasoned’ in a hive. Really want it to work as so easy!!

[@TheNorfolkHoneyCo]

Hi irishmik, Let me know how you get on with it, I'm switching to the Nicot method and grafting for all my queen rearing this year so I'll be interested to hear how it turns out for you. Stewart

[@irishmik]

The Norfolk Honey Company Stewart. Am pleased to say my second attempt has been a huge success. 100% take on 6 punched cells from lovely stock. Used a really strong swarm in a cortex box, left them a week queenless, added a frame of pollen and a frame feeder with 1:1 syrup on same day as cells. Lovely big cells being drawn. Didn’t get a picture as it was just a quick peek today due to rain. The only differences from last time (1) the tubes had been ‘seasoned’ in a colony and (2) pushed the cells through more fully so that they were almost fully pushed out of tube.

[@davidweale9621]

Could it be that the Queen rearing colony needs to be hopelessly queenless, then they would only be able to rear queens from the cells provided?

[@russellsamson1828]

Sorry this didn't work, Hope you get it worked out, seems like a good method

[@HMaktoum]

I realy feel sorry that not success. seams that the cell is too narrow to contain a queen thanks for the great videos

[@TheNorfolkHoneyCo]

Hi Mr. Maktoum, Thanks for commenting. It's disappointing but I will use it as a learning experience as with everything in beekeeping. If I don't get it right then I try another way and hopefully it will help other beekeepers to see how it can be done. Stewart

[@beasbeesrva2615]

Sorrry that first attempt did not go so well. I just subscribed to your channel so I am playing catch up with last year's videos. I see that BBWear has updated their instructions to warn that the hive must be hopelessly queenless, no suitable larvae anywhere in the cell builder. Good luck in 2018.

[@TheNorfolkHoneyCo]

Hi Bea's Bees, Thanks for your comments and thanks for subscribing. I'm glad it didn't go exactly to plan as I think it's important that new beekeeepers get to see it's not all plain sailing. It was totally my fault, I probably should have degreased the tubes, I always use older larvae in the top box to draw up nurse bees but got it wrong on this occassion. When I tried again it failed again and it wasn't until I checked later that I found I had a new queen in there! I'm just pleased I was able to show everyone things don't always go right for me! Stewart

[@TheWisendorf]

One think I would have done is put the hanger into the hive for a day or two before using it.Give them time to accept it and clean and polish stuff.Then I bet it will work

[@TheNorfolkHoneyCo]

Hi The Wisendorf, Yes you're right, it's something I should have done and I'm sure it would have helped. Sometimes I spend more time thinking about producing these videos I forget to do some of the more obvious beekeeping stuff! Stewart

[@MrClarkycn]

Stewart can I just ask what would be your preferred method of queen rearing if you only have 5 to 6 hives ,thanks chris

[@TheNorfolkHoneyCo]

Hi Chris, If I wanted to produce 5 or 6 queens I would probably go with the Alley method. I enjoyed using that method and cutting a strip from a brood frame then allows the bees to repair and renew it (I'll be using wireless foundation next time). The Miller method is equally good as is the cell punch (once I get it right!). I would set up one colony as a cell builder with a cloake board and once finished, split it back down and restore it to two seperate colonies. Stewart

[@TheWisendorf]

Another thought is useing plastic tube instead of copper..Maybe???

[@TheNorfolkHoneyCo]

I'm not sure if the material has any bearing on the effectiveness so it would be worth a try I think.

[@markheslin8745]

Just a thought - the brass ware was new. Next time coat in honey or syrup. And let the bees clean it thouraly before use ?

[@nathanrobb6489]

by doing this they will accept it faster? or seem more true to life?

[@TheNorfolkHoneyCo]

Hi Mark, Yes I think that may well be the issue here, getting lots of great feedback including yours so I think next time I will try using all of the suggestions and see what happens. Stewart

[@markheslin8745]

Nathan Robb They tend to accept things more if it has their scent on it

[@walkerlone]

Yet another great video, Stewart. I am really looking forward to the video on queen cell transplanting you referred to. I would like to see that kind of surgery!

[@TheNorfolkHoneyCo]

Hi Neill, Thanks for the comments. I missed a chance to record that one this weekend being to caught up in another video but I will try to get one recorded before the season ends. Stewart

[@smportis]

My goodness, you Brits must be strong. I bet a full box of honey of your style hive weighs 75 lbs. What is that style hive box called? I struggle to lift a medium Langstroth with honey - they push 40-50 lbs. WRT the queen cells: I agree with other comments - too many frames to be able to guarantee the are no uncapped brood. Tomorrow I will be trying the cell punch method as shown here. (kzbin.info/www/bejne/rKabdqSvjd-ej9k). No foreign objects - just a small bit of wood to which I will attach the punched out cell using heated bees wax. Wish me luck.

[@BBwear]

The cell building colony should have no other viable options to make a queen cell with, just the chosen punched cells. You added a frame of brood as well as the selected punched cells so the bee's decided to make an emergency cell in the brood frame instead of the cell punch It's the same method as the nicot cup kit just a lot less plastic ;)

[@fishmut]

Probably would of been a good idea to let the bees have the cell punches for a day or so before putting them in there with the larvae , I have seen keepers do this with even plastic ones , maybe that could be the difference here, certainly not a fan of results like that , but hey we are always learning and it’s great to share so thanks for your hard work putting videos up for us. 👍

[@devoncunningham9453]

Thanks for all your videos they are very helpful

[@TheNorfolkHoneyCo]

Hi Devon, Thanks for your comment. Stewart

[@patrikhafstrom8954]

Are the chambers made from old ammunition? At least I now what to use my brass from the shooting range to 🤓

[@wadekratzmann9105]

Hi Stewart I wonder if the larvae chilled/dried while getting cell's..

[@evaphid]

I suggest you try not to push the dowel all the way in as maybe the cell was protruding a bit too much from the brass tubing. I enjoy all your videos Stewart as they are quite interesting, I find.

[@nathanrobb6489]

at the end of the brass tubing there is a piece of plastic that is suppose to be pulled down past the end of the tube to help support the cell once pushed down. Most of the time the cell is sticky enough that it will hold though.

[@TheNorfolkHoneyCo]

Hi Michael, Thanks for commenting. From my follow up reading on the method it seems you need to push the dowel all the way through but it is suggested that I should have cut the cell walls down to expose the larvae. It's all a learning curve and I'mm happy to share the video with everyone and the feedback has been great with some great suggestions. Stewart

[@TheNorfolkHoneyCo]

Hi Nathan, Thanks for the comments. I did consider pushing that tube down (wish I had tried now!) but figured it restricted the cell too much. I think next time I will try it on some and leave others and see what happens. Stewart

[@nathanrobb6489]

as in to tear in down and stick it to the base so that is just a little cup? i assume you will try again to i will wait and see lol. Enjoy learning with you as it is a slow time for me.

[@TheNorfolkHoneyCo]

Yes that is what I understand from reading about it. www.dave-cushman.net/bee/cellpunch.html This is my information source, probably the best compilation of beekeeping information on the web. Stewart

[@highstandards6226]

taint from the copper?

[@TheNorfolkHoneyCo]

Hi, Yes probably one of the factors. I'm going to give it another try taking on board the comments everyone has be kind enough to leave and see what happens. Stewart

[@chrishodgkiss7816]

You are supposed to make sure the cell builder colony has no open eggs or lava. Your best using a nuc and shaking nurse bees in. 24 hrs later introduce the cells. Bee's now are queenless with no option but to make queen's from your cells. Leave 48 hrs put back in original colony making sure queen is in bottom box with queen excluder on top. Put in top box inbertween two frames of brood. Queen can't rip cells down because she is in bottom box. All bees from starter are shaken into finisher. Wait for lots of queen's. They can even take your eggs out and place them in a cell of there own if they have comb with no honey or pollen. For max results queenless swarm nurse bees into a nuc with only one frame of honey and one of pollen. No open brood. They will draw your cells because they have no choice. You need to place a soaked sponge in too so they have some water to drink

[@TheNorfolkHoneyCo]

Hi Chris, Lots of different ways of doing most things in beekeeping, Thanks for your comments, I'll see if I can follow your suggestion and create a video showing the method. Stewart

[@porcupine436]

Stewart, If you make your cell starter broodless you will be fine...

[@TheNorfolkHoneyCo]

Hi Norm, Thanks for the comment. I'll give that a try next time round. Stewart

[@thomasreto2997]

Great video Stewart. It makes me really think about just how complex these little creatures are.

[@TheNorfolkHoneyCo]

Thanks Thomas

[@randomthoughts1001]

😐 Out of stock. I want to try these myself. I will check back.

[@TheNorfolkHoneyCo]

Hi, Get one on back order with James at BBWear. I didn't have a lot of success withit this season but was running around doing so many things I'm sure it was down to my lack of attention. I will be trying them again next season for sure. Stewart

[@passagecreekbees348]

You may have missed a queen cell already there,

[@TheNorfolkHoneyCo]

Hi Paul, thanks for commenting, where about's are you looking at? Stewart

[@mrvolcada5355]

Thanks for the video - I use a variation of the method. I use 2 brass tubes 10mm and 8mm. One is used to punch the cells out and the 8mm tube pushes the cell out of the 10mm punch tube. I just use hot wax to fix the cells to the bar. For me its easy and low tech. All the best

[@TheNorfolkHoneyCo]

Hi Colin, It sounds like you have far more experience with this method that me. I also made the mistake of allowing the colony to develop their own queen who then hid from me so when I tried a second attempt they didn't produce a single queen cell because they already had a queen! I'm looking forward to giving it another try next season. Stewart

[@mrvolcada5355]

For what its worth I got the tube on ebay and made 4 x 3 inch sets, also used 2 4 sided snelgrove boards one top and one bottom to adjust the entrances, easier than breaking down and turning hives around - I seem to get very good results - hope that helps

[@TheNorfolkHoneyCo]

Hi Colin, I have a Snelgrove board to try out next season, I have to admit the idea of not having to lift boxes is always attractive! Stewart

[@mrvolcada5355]

As always my pleasure

[@robertstwalley3662]

Copper, that is not a good metal to use in a hive, remember brass is a combination of copper and something else that escapes me at the moment. Remember that brass is a natural anti-bacterial metal, this is why they used it for door knobs many years ago. I suspect that the poor results may have something to do with the cells being surrounded by copper. I would have used stainless steel or a food grade plastic. I know you did not select the metals, I am just offering my two cents on the reason that they did not take very well. Thanks again for all your research and time to share your honest results good or bad, that saves all of us out her alot of time with our growth.

[@drrota]

I suspect that the snapping motion of the attachment tool dislodges the eggs/larva

[@TheNorfolkHoneyCo]

Hi Don, Yes, could have been. I think it was just incompetence on my part :) Stewart

[@pipthedog11]

Maybe obvious but when the cell is pushed through it will the cell on the opposite side of the wax that will be presented to the bees.. Also pushing a larvae through the brass tube with a piece of wood is never going to be good

[@TheNorfolkHoneyCo]

Hi pipthedog11, Thanks for commenting. If you look closely at the way the tube is used you can see the cell is cut using the reverse of the brass tube so actually, the cell is the correct way round once it has been positioned in the frame. The wooden dowel doesn't damage the cell as I've selected older cells that have been used by the bees for several cycles of brood rearing thus it gives a casing of silk that is really quite tough. Having said all of that, this method wasn't as successful for me as I would have liked and I much prefer some of the other methods I've been using particularly the Alley method and the Nicot system. Stewart