Rickson Gracie VS Tsunetane Oda: Perfecting the foundation 小田常胤

[@SoldierDrew]

Jean Jeac Machado has the most beautiful, innovative, ground escapes which he's created. Including a beautiful kesagatame escape using one arm.

[@RadicalTrivia]

I've been searching out as much information on the way Rickson's jiujitsu feels as I can, so this was an awesome video for me! I also think my efforts are paying off. I feel like the techniques from Rickson, Henry Akins, Jack Taufer, etc. are helping me to understand the fundamental concepts of why jiujitsu works, and now I'm controlling people who are larger, more experienced, or both.

[@calburner4635]

"The foundation reaches the roof," legendary.

[@hamadalrowaie6882]

Well said !! 🖐👺 five stars !!

[@coachben2172]

You’ve never seen the classic Judo Kesagatame escape in Judo? The reverse is true: its rarely seen in BJJ but is standard in Judo. Also: Oda was great but the foundation of Kodokan Judo’s newaza was laid by Hajime Isogai and Matemon Tanabe. Isogai and Kano named/defined the official waza before the arrival of Mataemon Tanabe. Tanabe arrived later and contributed many foundational hairikata (entries). Isogai and Tanabe (like Kano) were born in the 1860s. Isogai was Kano’s main collaborator in defining the official newaza. Tanabe came in later and despite the internet stories was never able to beat Isogai. Tanabe did impress people with his newaza and he was promoted to 8th dan and his teaching at Kodokan and DNBK should be considered foundational for Kodokan newaza along with Isogai’s. Kotaro Okano was born in the 1880s and was their student. Okano is credited with the creation of Sangakujime (despite internet accounts crediting Oda). Oda was born in the 1890s and was Okano’s junior. Okano beat him in their official rivalry matches. Both went on to consolidate and develop the standard of Judo newaza.

[@QuantumMechanic_88]

As long as future generations understand and remember the foundation.

[@chrischiang1512]

@@coachben2172 that's true, my senpai taught me this Kesa Gatame escape as well. And no he did not train BJJ.

[@shadowfighter6445]

Rickson Gracie is my favorite Jiu-jitsu fighter. Thank you for sharing ☺️.

[@j.montoya7051]

¡ ANOTHER SUPERB INSTRUCTIONAL/TUTORIAL ! YOU HAVE ONCE MORE VINDICATED my HABIT OF WATCHING "OLD FILM" & READING "OUT-OF-PRINT" BOOKS OF OR BY THE OLD MASTERS & ATTEMPTING TO DEDUCE "OLDER, OUT OF DATE" TECHNIQUES ! LAYS CREDENCE TO THE ADAGE OF "THERE'S NO SCHOOL LIKE THE OLD SCHOOL !

[@warriorsagekonfuzus]

This was a good comparison and commentary. Thank you for sharing all this knowledge.

[@jasonpoilovs4903]

Billy Robinson says, “There are no new techniques, only re-discovery”

[@rustyshackleford735]

Beautiful. I learned these same techniques from the coach I got my blue belt from, his name is John Crouch, he received his purple belt under Helio and his black under Royce. The first thing I thought when seeing Oda's videos is this looks almost just like Gracie BJJ.

[@griffin2599]

That statement alone... “This almost looks just like Gracie Jiu-Jitsu” is the reason it's NOT “Gracie” Jiu-Jitsu. It's Jiu-Jitsu, or Old School Judo, Japanese Jiu-Jitsu or Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu based on the Japanese Judokas that immigrated to Brazil became naturalized citizens of Brazil, and taught the Gracies and the Fradda/Francas.

[@rustyshackleford735]

@@griffin2599 no, it's very different. Oda's ne waza is of the peak of judo ne waza while it is the very basics of BJJ. The evolution and advancement in ground grappling in BJJ is a fact, though it comes at the cost of great stand up. BJJ always has imported elements of wrestling and even a little capoeira in to BJJ. It's its own thing by now.

[@chrischiang1512]

@@griffin2599 those old school judo newaza came from this guy Tsunetane Oda, Hajime Isogai & Mataemon Tanabe. japanese Jiu-Jitsu doesn't teach such advance newaza if u do some research into the Koryu jujutsu u never see such advance newaza ever. It was Mataemon Tanabe of fusen Ryu that pave the way for modern newaza, same goes with those from Kodokan like Oda, and Isogai who developed their own newaza system to counter Tanabe's newaza. Chadi did a great video about that before about Kosen Judo history

[@griffin2599]

@@chrischiang1512 I know who they are. The point of my comments is that the Brazilians / Gracies we're not ahead of the Japanese on the ground and the Brazilians did NOT revolutionize the ground. There is nothing the Gracies were doing in the 30, 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s that couldn't already be found in a Kosen Judo book or curriculum.

[@chrischiang1512]

@@griffin2599 what u are saying is exactly what Robert Drysdale said

[@ariasjiu-jitsu6029]

I have been following this channel and it is very good to see how it has been deciphered that BJJ is a subset of mainly Judo techniques, nothing new under the sun. In addition, many judo masters from very ancient times demonstrated the superiority of JuJutsu and later judo over other martial arts in real combat. again nothing new under the sun. I have also seen how in several videos it is mentioned that some techniques such as kata guruma come from European wrestling, which is not true, it is just ignorance of true and very old traditional jujutsu schools in Japan and their scrolls. Kata Guruma comes from Taki otoshi, which is to lift an opponent over our shoulders and let him fall in free fall, releasing him and withdrawing from below him so that he falls into the void. In this video you can see the Japanese teacher who jumps in the air and puts his opponent in his guard, makes him fall on his back and later mounts him. this is typical of another very old JuJutsu technique that is in the scrolls and is called Fubi. from where in addition you could also heel lock the opponent as a variant or henka of the technique. Our school is recording a hundred traditional self-defense techniques from the true scrolls that will show how many of the techniques used by the different Martial Arts are taken from techniques in the scrolls of traditional Japanese schools. In addition, many schools are teaching self-defense with fundamental errors and in a very basic way, which in a real case would not work on the street or at least that same technique would put the executor at risk against the opponent. They seem excellent when you see them, but with few technical foundations, which surprise an initiate but make it clear to an expert that they are poorly made. Let's remember that the techniques were developed for battlefields where the terrain conditions and number of people fighting were very adverse for a poorly executed technique without considering many aspects external to the technique itself. Today teachers are also praised who supposedly have revolutionized JiuJitsu or No Gi with leg locks, again on my channel I have uploaded as in 2003 to 2005 already in our schools we taught leg lock techniques that are typical of the traditional schools of jujutsu, and my Master always told us, when an opponent is strong standup , attack his legs and finish him off. On the other hand, I want to mention that JiuJitsu or JuJutsu is Japanese, not American, Indian, Brazilian, etc. Organizations are from different countries, but I haven't seen so far any techniques that have been invented outside of Japanese scrolls. It is true that the original JuJutsu has been influenced by other nations, but as we know it today and how it was developed, structured and passed through generations in Japan, it is a unique system typical of Japan. Mr. Chadi, I congratulate you for your excellent work and I hope you continue on this path of clarifying the true history of JuJutsu and Judo and other modern variants that have not invented anything and that take advantage of some baseless stories. Excuse my English, because I speak Spanish. Best regards... Máximo Arias 5°Dan JiuJitsu .

[@kenh4823]

Jigoro Kano said, explicitly, that he learned Kata Guruma from various books on western wrestling he found in a public library in Yushima. Japan is not the only source of martial arts.

[@ariasjiu-jitsu6029]

@@kenh4823 Regardless of that, Guruma kata as such was already in the original JuJutsu scrolls long before Jigoro Kano formed and studied JuJutsu. Jigoro Kano softened many techniques to avoid injuries that occurred in training. JuJutsu throwing techniques were often performed with locks, and the opponent was not allowed to do Ukemi, unlike Judo.

[@kenh4823]

@@ariasjiu-jitsu6029 Yes, very true. I just wanted to address that particular point, since the version he practiced was based on the western form. I recommend "Judo Memoirs of Jigoro Kano" if you are interested in more of his perspectives.

[@petriano1]

LOL ARE YOU SPAMMING THIS MESSAGE IN ALL OF CHADI'S VIDEOS?? WHAT A CHUMP

[@griffin2599]

Just subscribed to your channel my friend! Can't wait to complement my learning from Chadi’s channel with your channel.

[@drksdofthmoon]

Seems like invincible jujutsu had an invisible master.

[@budocity]

Un excelente vídeo . Gracias por su magnífico trabajo 👍👍👍❤️

[@metalfacemartinez]

I used to train with Pedro at Caique's school. Great dude

[@beskeptic]

Nicely done Chadi! What a tribute!

[@Noone-rt6pw]

Just think how these things were closely guarded at one time as it was ones secret weapon. Good video

[@haroldbryant3105]

Well done.

[@TheJuan_N_0nly]

Great video as always..

[@u45.-]

I like roger gracie too along with rickson both seem to give respect to judo and are not bullies like alot of the family used to be

[@andrewpamplona]

Awesome. Well done again.

[@paulzenchuk7807]

Thankyou!!!!!!!!

[@ralphmontalvo8458]

Love your work sir. This was brilliant!

[@amorim261]

Osss. Great Job. From Brazil.

[@Jimsac8]

Enjoyed the content. Thanks

[@Owl-of-Minerva]

Great minds think alike

[@lightning7582]

Don't forget the biggest Rickson fundamental "connection" this is something that is not really understood unless you train with someone who has mastered it.

[@scarred10]

Thats one of the concepts he refers to as invisible jj,theres nothing magical about it,its just good biomechanics .

[@RadicalTrivia]

I've been focusing a LOT on connection, and it is extremely interesting. I try to describe it to students as paying attention to your partner as if you're dancing. If you try to gently connect and be as sensitive as possible to your partner, you'll be able to predict their movements.

[@jiujudo1307]

Chadi - Have you had a chance to review any of John Danaher, or Gordon Ryan's "New Wave" Jiu-Jisu? On the BJJ fanatics channel John and Gordon teach an amazing UPDATED / Evolved Mount attack. At 55, I'm excited to learn something new every day. I've been grappling for over 40 years. The mount techniques I witnessed from John and Gordon blew me away! I recommend all to check them out on KZbin. I also would like to hear your thoughts. Keep up the great work!

[@chipsebastian8657]

Tsunetane loved ground work, and wanted to emphasize it more in the Kodokan, which Kano did not. The Brazilians adopted his material because they want to be on the ground. One must remember he did not learn combat Jujutsu as Kano did before founding the Kodokan, which is why Kano had less emphasis on Ne Waza regarding self defense/combat. Like Maeda, sport/competition/showing who's the better man was always first and foremost, which is why Kosen Ryu is so sport-driven to this day. One can't, with any evidence, point to anything new regarding Jujutsu waza since 1882, aside from the dissecting of standing and ground, which on the battlefield would've been suicide.

[@robbybee70]

5:09 is how I roll!, so is 8:27 ish....seems I'd have liked this Oda....

[@seteetlemonde7656]

Le JJB GRACIE c'est du copier coller de l'ancien JJ Japonais c'est simple à comprendre lorsque les judoka japonais ont immigrés au Brésil dans les années 1800 et début 1900 c'est pas sorcier! Merci ce beau document très révélatrice de vérité !

[@robbybee70]

do you have a video on what Throws Oda liked?

[@highchamp1]

Jiu Jitsu Foundation Gracie Jiu Jitsu (Blue belt) Learn from everyone else College education

[@kallepikku4991]

That disclaimer. 🤣 Chadi making sure that bjj bullies don't ambush him online.

[@rollsgracie268]

No one sits side mount on you like that. The person return the body away from you showing you their back would be a better way, and then this wouldn’t work . John Dannaher, and Renzo.

[@bryanreyes7382]

Thank you for this video, Chadi. Sorry that I've been in hiatus since my didn't work anymore and I had my kickboxing debut this past March 19th as I achieved my green belt in MMA on the 15th before my debut.

[@lauranceboyd6365]

That’s interesting. I’ve never heard of a belt system in mma

[@bryanreyes7382]

@@lauranceboyd6365 that's because my class is different

[@JohnDoe-kh3hy]

Hey, my good friend and fellow judoka. But, as much as I admire Rickson, don´t you think that would have been better addressing Sensei Mehdi since Master Rickson was his student

[@JohnDoe-kh3hy]

@@BuJammy kzbin.info/www/bejne/i6CYqn6bbrBsqtE

[@scarred10]

Rickson took some classes in judo at mehdis academy for throwing and mehdu had been heluos student before that.Mehdi has a very biased view of the gracies since he did not like them.

[@JohnDoe-kh3hy]

@@scarred10 Biased? Carlos and Helio used him and exhibited him pretty much as in a "freak show" claiming he was a french champion judoka asking to be train on to BJJ under them; recognizing its superiority. He was not a champion and his arrival in to Brazil was not related to the Gracies. He did not look at all of the Gracies as bitter rivals - only Carlos and Helio -, he willingly taught many Gracies and non gracies renoun bjj practitioners - Carlson´s students

[@8991やっき]

柔　YAWARA！

[@ToiletDuckFan]

Chadi, what alternatives are there to Judo? Local school is f*cked, guy choked me unconscious after I tapped and I can't stand the cult-like aspect of BJJ and how decreas itself best martial art ever. Went to JJJ and mostly kids and adults TRYING to figure out things. Other JJJ is nearby, some wrestling school that never gets back to me when I contact them about adult classes? Judo school much further, mostly sport and non organised, though may have changed recently. Am a longtime Taekwondo (non Olympic) practitioner and want to cross trains some grappling.

[@scarred10]

Jap jitsu is pure useless,most dont even spar full force.Judo would be my choice but doesnt address strikes .A gracie university affiliate would be best and bjj isnt cult like,it all depends on the teacher.

[@chrischiang1512]

Try Kosen Judo but only in Japan, search the 7 imperial Japanese University who still do Kosen Judo, and also Tokyo's newaza kenkyukai based on Kosen Judo as well legacy of renowned Kosen Judo Hirata kanae sensei.

[@Couch-Tomato]

よくこんな映像残ってたな…

[@chrischiang1512]

Oda Tsunetane shows nothing new under the sun

[@trashbasementproductions223]

Invisible Jiu Jitsu are just technical details that the Gracie family learned from judokas, they didn´t innovate or create anything , everything already existed in Judô.

[@scarred10]

Not true,the connection and orher parts of bjj are rarely known or taugth outside ricksons lineage and really refer to newaza only BJJ of course was a subset of judo but became much different by focussing on real fights outside just grappling, judo never had that aim.

[@trashbasementproductions223]

@@scarred10 In the beginning Judô was more focused on self-defense part then they focused a lot on the competition part that displeased Jigoro Kano. The same situation happens in BJJ, the Gracies learned the self defense and the fundamentals with Maeda and then Geo Omori introduced them to MMA, and today the focus is on competition. The leverage and other technical details already existed the Gracies did not create anything. You need to research more you´re talking nonsense.

[@scarred10]

@@trashbasementproductions223 dude,Nobody thinks gracies invented leverage or positions.They learned a subset of basic judo and started to experiment withit in real matches.The technical newaza developments came from the 90s onward via sport bjj,theres lots in it now that was never even part of kosen. However,the newaza in bjj is far more technical than judo by necessity and kosen due to the very few doing kosen.I started Judo in 1995 and then 10 yrs bjj since then and have trained in europe,US and asia in both styles.

[@trashbasementproductions223]

@@scarred10 The gracies didn´t just learn only the basics of Judô, they learned in a time when full Judô was taught and they focused on the ground and maintained self-defense and then added Wrestling. Their fighting style in MMA or Vale Tudo came from Geo Omori who introduced them to MMA, Omori and Maeda trained several styles and challenged several fighters of other styles before reaching the Brazil. Judokas and catch wrestlers created this way of fighting not the Gracies. Technical newaza already existed in Judô, in the 90´s they just added Wrestling in grappling sport BJJ. The influence of Kosen Judô in BJJ was indirect, sankaku jime, Kanemitsu´s guard (de la riva), more focus on ground fight and more technical development in ground fight came from Kosen Judô, Ono brothers and Sumiyuki Kotani were very influencial. And don´t forget many judokas trained a lot on the ground at that time especially those who went to Brazil. BJJ is not more technical than Kosen Judô in the ground it depends on the fighter.

[@chrischiang1512]

@@scarred10 i agree with Paul that the development of Newaza is weaker due to less Kosen Judo practise. The community is small and mostly they practise during University time. But Judo turtle attack and defence & pins are as advanced or maybe exceed those of BJJ. I always believe the ruleset dictates the technical development of the sport

[@josephsolary5384]

😁

[@djignatin4043]

Judo is better standing. BJJ owns the ground.